In this episode of Rewired, we wrap our discussion on the thinking triad by focusing on Enneagram Sevens and Nines. The conversation challenges common assumptions about these types—especially the idea that they are less mentally engaged—and instead highlights how active and complex their inner processing really is.

We explore how Sevens use reframing, anticipation, and possibility to navigate their experience, often thinking far ahead of their actions. Then we turn to Nines, examining how their thinking supports stability, connection, and ease—often by holding multiple perspectives at once.

As a Type Two and a Type Three , they explore how their motivations shape connection, attention, and emotional needs within their family. They talk through family dynamics, parenting styles, and what it looked like to grow up in a household with strong relational energy but very different ways of expressing it.

The conversation also moves into more personal territory, reflecting on Sara’s cancer diagnosis, how it impacted the family, and how both of them now understand those years in light of their Enneagram work.

A conversation on recovery—what it is, how it happens, and why most of us only find it after burnout. The group explores the difference between recovery and renewal, the role of daily habits, and how Enneagram type shapes what “rest” actually looks like. From naming excess and admitting powerlessness to rebuilding balance across the centers, this episode moves through both the theory and the lived reality of getting unstuck.

They also wrestle with deeper questions: Are we trying to get back to something, or move forward into something new? What does it mean to recover when life keeps disrupting us? And how do meaning, identity, and daily practices create the kind of resilience that can actually hold when things fall apart?

In this episode, Jeff works through the opening section of Chapter Four of "Personality and Wholeness in Therapy," by Dr. Daniel Siegel, focusing on how personality forms through automatic processes beneath awareness. The discussion centers on Siegel’s framework of three core motivations—agency, bonding, and certainty—and how these map onto the Enneagram’s centers.

Jeff walks through each of the nine types using Siegel’s categories of “experience and express,” “contain and channel,” and “reframe and redirect,” translating dense neuroscience into practical Enneagram language. Along the way, he offers critiques, clarifies key ideas, and highlights where the model aligns—or conflicts—with traditional Enneagram understanding.

Along the way, they contrast this with the urgency and emotional weight of other centers, unpacking how Fives (and their Head counterparts) relate to ideas, energy, and the world itself. The result is a conversation that feels both analytical and grounded—less about abstract theory and more about how people actually experience thinking in real time.

If you want to connect with our guests, they can be found below:

https://www.instagram.com/nadiaraebrackett/

https://www.instagram.com/josiahgoff/

https://www.instagram.com/enneagrampaths/

They talk through real-life moments: learning how to communicate clearly, navigating boundaries, and discovering what each person actually needs.

In this episode of The Morning Show, Jeff Cook, TJ Wilson, Kristin Messegee, and Jackie Contessa explore burnout through the lens of the Enneagram, reframing it as the result of unprocessed emotional cycles, internal imbalance, and living out of alignment with oneself. Rather than a simple crash after overwork, burnout shows up as emotional exhaustion, disconnection, and a loss of meaning—often driven by patterns we don’t see in ourselves.

The conversation moves from theory into lived reality: parenting, work, identity, and the weight of responsibility. Each type burns out differently—emotionally, mentally, or physically—and recovery isn’t one-size-fits-all. The path forward centers on naming the true source of burnout, rebalancing the centers of intelligence, processing emotions instead of avoiding them, and adopting a long-term “marathon” posture toward life. This is an honest look at limits, responsibility, and how to keep going without losing yourself.

FInd Joey Schewee's book : HERE

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What does it really mean for a Six to seek security?

In this episode, Jeff and Katie explore the inner world of Enneagram Sixes—how they navigate uncertainty, why they turn to relationships for clarity, and what’s really happening beneath their questions, intensity, and need for truth. Using Joey Schewee’s idea of the “processing center,” they trace how Sixes move out of their thinking center into the relational space, gathering information and testing reality in order to steady their internal world.

This conversation brings fresh language to familiar patterns—distinguishing honesty from authenticity, exploring why Sixes can feel more intense than other feeling types, and showing how their drive for certainty shapes the way they engage others.

In the second half, Jeff and Katie include a full bonus segment: a long-form theory discussion on processing, detachment, and the shared movement of Threes, Sixes, and Nines. If you enjoy the deeper architecture of the Enneagram, this is one to stay for.

Their conversation moves through questions of evidence, face validity, and the tension between data-driven frameworks and the lived reality of transformation.

Connect with Sam's fantastic work : HERE

Follow Katie's work : HERE

This episode of Early Access: Roots explores the evolving relationship between a mother and daughter through the lens of the Enneagram. Katie Whitlock sits down with Jennifer (Type Two) and her daughter Skyler (Type One) to unpack how personality, parenting, and personal growth intersect over time. They talk about family dynamics, anxiety, identity, and the challenges of loving someone well when their needs differ from your own instincts.

The conversation moves from defining fixation as an “unhealthy preoccupation” into a deeper examination of how each Enneagram type gets mentally stuck.

We spend time with all nine types highlighting how each fixation both protects and constrains.

This is a conversation about reclaiming choice, restoring balance across the centers, and stepping out of the loops that quietly shape our lives.

Joined by Melissa Kircher, the conversation moves through grief as it actually unfolds: nonlinear, unpredictable, and often impossible to name. Together, they explore how loss interacts with personality—especially through the lens of the Enneagram—touching on anger, emotional processing, withdrawal, and the tension between intellectualizing and simply feeling.

More than a discussion of grief, this episode becomes an honoring. Danielle reflects on her father’s life as an engineer, a thinker, and a deeply influential presence who helped shape her love of science and nuance. Through stories, systems, and his unforgettable “11 life axioms,” a portrait emerges of a complex, principled man whose legacy continues to shape her work and voice. This conversation offers both insight and companionship for anyone navigating loss—and a reminder that grief, like love, doesn’t follow a formula.

Connect with Danielle : HERE

Connect with Melissa : HERE

Sign up for a $20 Membership : HERE

Then click here for links and all the details: HERE

In this episode, we continue our deep dive into Personality and Wholeness in Therapy by Daniel J. Siegel, exploring Chapter 3 and one of the most ambitious questions in Enneagram work: How do the nine types actually form? Drawing from neuroscience and developmental theory, this conversation moves beyond philosophy and into the subcortical layers of the brain—where emotion, instinct, and survival strategies take shape.

We unpack Siegel’s framework of agency, bonding, and certainty, and how core aversive emotions like anger, distress, and anxiety drive the formation of personality patterns at a deeply embodied level.

To go further, access the full class, join our live discussions, and explore the growing library of Enneagram content at: 👉 https://www.aroundthecircle.org

Join us for weekly classes, including our Tuesday night sessions, and be part of one of the most in-depth explorations of the Enneagram available right now.

This episode of Rewired continues a deep dive into the Enneagram’s processing centers, turning toward those who process with feeling—Twos and Fours.

Using Joey Schewee's NEW BOOK as a springboard, Jeff and Katie wrestle with how Twos and fours meet their needs and overcome their underlying feeling.

Through Twos, the discussion becomes concrete. Feeling processing shows up as a drive to cultivate connection, often at the expense of productivity or self-reflection. The Two’s outward energy—serving, engaging, and attuning—reveals both the beauty and cost of building identity through others. Jeff and Katie contrast this with the Three’s pursuit of admiration and the difficulty doing types have in understanding relational ambiguity. The result is a grounded exploration of how connection becomes both a compass and a vulnerability.

As the conversation expands to Fours (and begins moving toward Sixes), a richer picture emerges: feeling processors possess a heightened awareness of people, an instinct for emotional depth, and a persistent need to locate themselves within relationship. Whether through the Two’s service, the Four’s emotional magnetism, or the Six’s relational testing, each type reveals a different strategy for securing connection. What unfolds is less a tidy definition and more an invitation—to see how profoundly our wiring shapes what it means to feel “okay” in the world.

This is a recording of our Second Saturday Workshop from March.

Our next Second Saturday workshop is April 11, where we’ll be focusing on Sixes and Sevens. You can find all the details and sign up at AroundtheCircle.org.

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We moved into the inner world of Enneagram Fours and Fives, exploring what each type fears, avoids, and protects. For Fours, the conversation centers on the fear of insignificance, the pull of envy, and the deep longing to be seen and understood. What emerges is a powerful insight: envy isn’t just comparison—it can become a form of protection, keeping Fours in longing rather than risking rejection through real action and expression.

As the conversation shifts to Fives, the focus turns to competency, energy, and the instinct to withhold. Fives reflect on their relationship to time, knowledge, and emotional exposure—revealing how easily life can be observed, analyzed, and prepared for, rather than fully entered. Their connection to need, dependence, and self-sufficiency brings a different angle on withdrawal, one rooted not in identity, but in resources.

Together, this session offers a grounded and honest look at two withdrawn types and what it takes to move toward fuller participation in life.

In this first Early Access family episode, Katie Whitlock sits down with a mother–daughter pair to explore how the Enneagram plays out inside real relationships.

Jen (Enneagram 3) and Olivia (Enneagram 1) bring both depth and honesty as they reflect on their shared history—shaped by achievement, responsibility, and a deep desire to “do things right.” From childhood dynamics and sibling comparisons to adult friendship and mutual respect, this conversation traces how their relationship has evolved across seasons of life.

Together, they unpack the unique strengths of a 3–1 pairing—drive, alignment, and shared vision—alongside the tensions: judgment, emotional restraint, and the pressure to perform.

In this Morning Show conversation, we dive into one of the most uncomfortable—but essential—parts of growth: exposure and vulnerability. From the “Enneagram of Avoidances” to the deeper question of what each type refuses to face, this episode explores how avoidance shapes our patterns … and how facing it might be the exact path to what we actually want.

We unpack:

• The core avoidance for each Enneagram type
• Why growth requires contacting what we resist
• The tension between healing vs. reopening wounds
• Whether parts of ourselves should be accepted, integrated, or eradicated
• How vulnerability functions in real relationships and community

Along the way, the conversation moves from playful (favorite compliments 👀) to deeply personal—touching on fear, motivation, shadow work, and what it means to actually change.

This week in the Reading Room, we continue our journey through Personality and Wholeness in Therapy with a deep dive into Chapter Two. This chapter introduces the PDP framework—a fresh attempt to reinterpret the Enneagram through developmental pathways, neuroscience, and narrative data. Along the way, we wrestle with big questions: What actually counts as evidence? How much of personality is fixed? And what role does inner experience play in shaping who we become?

The conversation moves between appreciation and critique. We explore the strengths of the narrative tradition—especially its focus on first-person experience—while also pushing back on philosophical assumptions around “true self,” wholeness, and the limits of scientific grounding. We also examine the tension between “types” and “patterns,” the role of automatic behavior, and whether personality constrains or enables real change.

Ultimately, this episode lands on a practical and urgent insight: the Enneagram matters because it reveals motive. And if we don’t examine our motives, they quietly run our lives. But when we bring awareness to them, we gain the possibility of real transformation—toward greater balance, integration, and health.

The conversation explores how these types assess life through action—how progress, productivity, and accomplishment become the primary lens for determining whether things are working.

For Ones and Threes, doing is not secondary; it is the ground of evaluation, the place where identity and meaning begin to take shape.

In this conversation, Jeff Cook sits down with licensed trauma therapist and author KJ Ramsey to explore the surprising relationship between pain, joy, identity, and healing.

Drawing from her upcoming memoir The Place Between Our Pain, KJ shares how chronic illness, trauma, and the limits of control reshape our understanding of time, self, and what it means to be held. Together, Jeff and KJ examine the tension between despair and hope, the role of the Enneagram in personal growth, and the deep question beneath it all:

Can joy still exist when everything falls apart?

This episode moves through themes of:

• Trauma and post-traumatic growth
• The “true self” vs. personality
• Chronic illness and the experience of time
• Joy as presence, not performance
• Agency, embodiment, and survival
• Faith, meaning, and the limits of understanding

Whether you're navigating suffering, exploring the Enneagram, or asking deeper philosophical questions about identity and purpose—this conversation offers both honesty and hope.

📘 KJ Ramsey’s Book

The Place Between Our Pain: A Memoir of What Joy Can Survive

→ Pre-order & learn more: https://www.kjramsey.com

🌐 KJ Ramsey Website

→ https://www.kjramsey.com

🎙️ Around the Circle

The Enneagram publishing platform: Podcast • Books • Video • Ongoing formation

→ Join the community: https://www.aroundthecircle.org

→ Become a member: https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

📅 Live Event (Colorado)

KJ Ramsey + Suzanne Stabile → April 17–18 : HERE

In this episode of Early Access, Katie Whitlock talks with Blake Walker, an Enneagram Nine, about the quiet patterns that shape her life—from avoiding conflict to merging with others’ goals, to the slow realization that her own voice matters.

Blake reflects on marriage, motherhood, and building a life that at times felt more aligned with others than herself. Along the way, they explore the Nine’s relationship to energy, anger, and purpose—revealing both the strength and struggle of a type that longs for peace but often loses itself in the process.

This conversation moves beyond theory into practice. What actually changes us? Why do we avoid our core emotions—anger, shame, and fear—and what does it take to face them? Across the triads, patterns emerge: image types struggle to access shame, body types resist seeing their impact, and head types find subtle ways to avoid anxiety altogether.

In this episode, we explore three core ideas shaping Dr. Siegel's model. We trace how early temperament forms a kind of filter, how neural pathways reinforce our patterns over time, and why growth is less about changing your type and more about loosening its grip. We also examine Siegel’s integration model—one that calls us not into a different type, but into balance across the centers.

We are gathering on Tuesdays to discuss. The sign up is : HERE

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We’re back in —and diving deeper into Joey Stabile’s Working Together Doesn’t Work, focusing on the Processing Center and what it reveals about how different types move through the world.

In this episode, we begin a discussion on Eights, Threes, and Ones—the “doing processors.” What does it mean to process through action? What gets gained—and what gets left behind—when execution becomes the primary lens for evaluating life?

We explore Joey’s framework of support centers—how doing can be backed by thinking or feeling—and how that shapes the differences between types that, on the surface, look similar. Along the way, we unpack:

• Why Eights often feel misunderstood—and what’s actually happening beneath their intensity
• The tension between execution and emotion in doing types
• How Threes, Eights, and Ones differ in their relationship to results, relationships, and responsibility
• Whether the “ends justify the means”—and how each type defines both ends and means differently
• The hidden cost of prioritizing action over reflection or connection

This conversation slows down to wrestle with real language, real experience, and the deeper structure behind how we assess: Am I good in the world?

We’ll pick up next time with Threes and Ones—but for now, we stay with the Eights, and what it means to move through life with force, clarity, and blind spots we don’t always see.

We talk about several differences between 3 and 9, and spend a lot of time diving into what it means for a 9 to "wake up" and start chasing after their own life.

Luke has an incredible knack for explaining difficult concepts, so this is a good one to listen to if you want to understand the 9s in your life.

In this Morning Show conversation, we move past surface-level typing and into something deeper—transformation, self-awareness, and the courage to face what’s actually being exposed in us.

We explore:

1. Why the Enneagram is more than insight—it’s a tool for real-time self-awareness
2. The difference between knowing your patterns and interrupting them
3. How unconscious motivations shape our lives (and how to bring them into the light)
4. Why “what do I want?” might be one of the most powerful questions you can ask
5. The tension between shared human flourishing and personal transformation
6. How each type filters reality—and what that means for relationships, emotions, and growth

Along the way, we engage ideas from Carl Jung, Brené Brown, and Dr. Daniel Siegel’s Personality and Wholeness in Therapy, while also diving into the practical, lived experience of using the Enneagram.

We introduce a framework reshaping how we are understand the Enneagram. What begins as a familiar observation—types orienting around accomplishment, connection, or ease—becomes something far more grounded as we explore the underlying mechanism that produces these patterns.

Rather than stopping at outcomes, Joey’s work traces how each type processes experience from the inside out, offering a clearer structure for why we assess our lives the way we do. This conversation moves beyond description into explanation, giving language and form to something many have sensed but not fully articulated.

Take a listen. We will be discussing the book by Dr. Siegel starting Tuesday, March 24th, 2026.

Sign up for : HERE

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In this episode, Jeff begins a chapter-by-chapter deep dive into our first book: Personality and Wholeness in Therapy.

Written by a team of PhDs and medical doctors and led by Dr. Daniel J. Siegel (Harvard-trained, UCLA professor of psychiatry), this book represents a major shift. It takes the Enneagram out of the realm of “wisdom tradition” and places it in conversation with neuroscience, developmental theory, and clinical practice—drawing on over 50,000 narrative interviews.

We will post episodes of this sort weekly, and they will serve to set up our Tuesday night conversations. Our First Live Session will be Tuesday, March 24, 2026

Join us by:

1. Getting the book
2. Reading the introduction
3. Signing up at aroundthecircle.org for $20 membership

Think of this as a gym membership—but for your inner life.

We’re building a space not just for content, but for conversation, clarity, and growth.

If you’ve wanted a place to think out loud about the Enneagram with others who take it seriously—this is it.

Find Grace on Instagram here

Check out her website here

We are talking about the art of advice. Together they explore why giving advice can feel so natural, why receiving it can feel so difficult, and how often “help” is tangled up with control, fear, projection, or the need to be affirmed.

The conversation moves beyond simple tips and asks a bigger question:

When we seek guidance, are we really asking what to do next—or who we are becoming?

They also discuss:

1. the difference between advice, coaching, and therapy
2. why many people asking for advice may actually want approval
3. how each Enneagram type can be compelled to offer help in different ways
4. the role of curiosity, respect, and autonomy in healthy support
5. why growth often begins beneath the surface problem
6. whether coaches should have a universal target for health and flourishing

This is a rich, funny, and surprisingly deep conversation about wisdom, self-awareness, and the kinds of questions that actually help people change.

Do join us March 14th. Become a member of aroundthecircle.org and go HERE to sign up.

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In this session, we focused on Twos and Threes—looking closely at the fears, patterns, and excesses that can pull these heart types off center, and the deeper messages that begin to move them toward freedom. Together, we explored how Twos relate to need, care, pride, and control, and how Threes wrestle with validation, achievement, image, and the longing to know their worth apart from performance.

What made this conversation especially rich was the honesty in the room. Participants shared stories about relational risk, self-love, grief, retirement, emotional presence, and the challenge of letting go of the need to manage how others feel or how they see us. We also reflected on the heart’s message, the holy ideas, and the virtues that begin to emerge when these types loosen their grip on old survival strategies.

This gathering is part teaching, part discussion, and part crowdsourcing—an opportunity to listen deeply to one another and to consider what real movement toward wholeness looks like from the inside out.

In this conversation:

1. the “45-pound weight” each type carries through fear and fixation
2. why Twos struggle to name and honor their own needs
3. how pride, control, and the longing for reciprocation show up in Twos
4. why Threes often tether worth to achievement and validation
5. how grief, stopping, and emotional honesty become part of healing for Threes
6. the role of the heart’s message, holy ideas, and virtues in moving toward the high side of type

We’ll gather again on March 14 as we continue the conversation with Fours and Fives.

Emma shares how she first found the Enneagram through podcasts, what it was like to recognize herself as a Six, and how that discovery helped make sense of patterns she had carried for years. Together, Katie and Emma explore the inner world of Sixes: the search for safety, the struggle to trust themselves, the experience of rumination, and the deep need to find what feels “just right.”

They also talk about Emma’s relationship with her boyfriend, an Enneagram Three, the differences between Six and Three achievement, and how the Enneagram helps illuminate the push and pull of connection. Along the way, Emma reflects on growing up between cultures, including her childhood in Saudi Arabia, and shares how an early medical emergency became one of the defining moments in her relationship to preparedness and control.

In this episode of The Morning Show, Jeff is joined by Enneagram teachers Jackie Contessa and Kristin Messegee to explore the relationship between the Enneagram and happiness.

Together they consider whether happiness is something we pursue, something we cultivate, or something that emerges when we begin to see through the patterns of personality.

Along the way we explore ideas like enjoyment, satisfaction, meaning, purpose, and the sense of a life well lived.

The conversation also explores:

• how different Enneagram types might approach happiness differently

• the role of struggle, maturity, and personal development

• whether happiness can coexist with grief or hardship

• how relationships shape our experience of happiness

• why growth may require surrendering older versions of ourselves

If the Enneagram is a map, this episode asks a deeper question: where is that map actually trying to lead us?

Along the way they unpack autonomy, boundaries, grief disguised as anger, the temptation to escape into “future-fixing”, and why past-work can feel both threatening and essential—less about reliving pain and more about gaining compassion, clarity, and a fuller relationship to time (past, present, and future).

You can connect with Lindsay at : www.HopeSpringsCounseling.net

There are a few seconds of audio issues around the 47 minute mark (we had some technical problems during recording), but hopefully you all can still understand!

Find Hunter Mobley’s book here

The discussion broadens into themes of parenting, growth, and self-awareness. Joey reflects on raising children with an understanding of stance and wiring, while Kristin speaks candidly about discovering her own fear and authority patterns later in life. Together, they emphasize that the Enneagram doesn’t change hardwiring—but it can transform how we relate, how we repair, and how we take responsibility for the impact we have on others.

Links

Inside Story episode (Apple): HERE

Kristin Messegee's Coaching: HERE

All Joey Schewee's work at WE Solutions: HERE

Joey's Upcoming book: "When Working Together Doesn't Work" : HERE

Together they explore the emotional impact of polarized culture, lost shared reality, and fear-driven responses in our relationships and communities. Mandy offers insight into how regulation, one-on-one connection, and lived values can help us navigate overwhelm and reclaim humanity in a fractured world.

If you’ve felt disillusioned, scared, or unsure how to engage with big problems without burning out, this episode invites you into deeper awareness, compassionate action, and hope rooted in connection — not just outrage.

About Mandy & Where to Listen:

This episode features Restorative Grief with Mandy Capehart – Podcast Page, a show that explores grief in all its forms — from loss of loved ones to life transitions, identity shifts, and the heartbreak of unsolved cultural pain.

👉 Listen to Restorative Grief on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite player for compassionate stories and practical tools for navigating grief and growth.

Connect with Mandy:

1. Website: mandycapehart.com
2. Instagram: @mandycapehart

Find Ava's interior design account here: https://www.instagram.com/rose_junction_/

Pick up Joey Schewee's new book : HERE

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On this episode of Inside Story, host Kristin Messegee sits down with Enneagram teacher and workplace consultant Joey Schewee for a candid, surprisingly personal conversation about what it’s actually like to live inside Type Eight.

Joey opens with her upcoming book, When Working Together Doesn’t Work—a guide born from 17 years of consulting and leading teams—and then Kristen pivots into the heart of the episode: Eight confidence, intensity, and the misunderstood inner world beneath the “big presence.” Joey challenges common stereotypes (and mistypes), reframes Eight “reactivity” as fast-moving anger that clears quickly, and names the real fuel behind Eight conflict: injustice, low effort, and compromised integrity.

Together they explore the push-pull between autonomy and connection, why Eights often feel uncomfortable when attention turns toward them, and how “wanting” energy from others can feel intrusive—especially when it isn’t grounded in authenticity. Joey also shares what changed after facing something she couldn’t control, how anger can cover tenderness, and why gut types may be the most intuitive in the system.

Again, Joey’s book When Working Together Doesn’t Work is available for pre-order now on Amazon and releases in March, and you can get it : HERE .

Milton also tells his personal Enneagram origin story (including his early “mistype everybody I know” phase), how the tool shaped his work in under-resourced education settings, and what it’s like to learn from teachers whose presenceteaches as much as their content. The conversation lands on a core theme: the work—and Milton names two practices that keep it real no matter how much you’ve learned: humility and presence. If you’ve ever wanted a bigger-picture view of the Enneagram world—especially beyond American culture—this one will widen your lens and deepen your hope.

🔗 Links mentioned in the episode

1. Milton’s website: https://kaizencareers.com
2. Milton’s podcast: Do It For The Gram: Enneagram Podcast
3. International Enneagram Association (IEA): https://internationalenneagram.org
4. IEA Events (“Nine Points”): https://internationalenneagram.org → Nine Points (events posted by accredited professionals)

Imogen shares how she found the Enneagram through a friend, why she identifies as a Five without tests, and how “avarice” shows up as a fierce protection of time, energy, space, and purpose.

Together they explore the Five’s impulse to offer information as a form of connection, the tension between deep internal emotion and discomfort with outward emotional exchange, and the relief that comes when the Enneagram gives a framework for accepting difference.

Drea shares her story: born and raised in Alabama, married nearly five years, mom to Porter, and currently balancing work as an air compliance specialist with caregiving for her mom, who’s living with early-onset Alzheimer’s with dementia.

Along the way, she opens up about finishing her master’s in environmental management, her growing awareness of environmental justice, and what it means to “take up space”—especially after postpartum struggles and a desire to create supportive community for other women.

Members can sign up for all of our coming workshops : HERE

In this conversation, we return to motive—this time on the high side: what it looks like to be your type when you’re grounded, centered, and flourishing (not in stress, not in security). We lay out a simple map for transformation—from our Shadow → through the Holy Idea → awakening our Virtue—and invite real-time reflection from our community on what changes when we begin to trust a bigger reality than our fear.

We tackled the body triad—891s—in January.

Eights wrestle with Holy Truth and the possibility of innocence without naivety. Nines explore Holy Love, self-worth, and what it means to take up space without losing peace. Ones confront Holy Order, naming resentment, control, and the long journey into serenity, flexibility, and joy.

We end by celebrating the gifts that show up on the high side: the Eight’s empowering strength and demand for what’s real, the Nine’s steady presence and non-dualistic wisdom, and the One’s persistent care for justice—turning chaos into order with a deeply rooted heart.

Members can sign up for all of our workshops : HERE

On February 14th, we will talk through 234s—so bring your heart-triad people and come ready to talk about what “going high” can look like in real life.

Find Lucas on Instagram at ofthoughtandfeeling

Find Lucas' music on Spotify

Lindsey shares the personal upheaval of 2025 (divorce, re-finding herself, and realizing she’d been mistyped as a Two for nearly a decade), and the two of them unpack what changes when you’re finally looking through the right lens: why boundaries can feel hard for different reasons, how reframing works as both a gift and a defense, and what it’s like to feel “a good day” while quietly bracing for it to disappear.

Along the way they talk somatic awareness, the body as truth-teller, the “good girl vs good woman” shift, anger as a boundary signal, and even why some Sevens show up publicly for hard topics (like politics) while avoiding the friction one-on-one. It’s funny, honest, and deeply practical—an episode for anyone trying to build self-trust, tell more of the story, and stay present when life gets complicated.

Together they get underneath the classic Four questions—wanting to be “not misunderstood,” protecting a kind of mystery, and carrying a quiet fear that people will leave once they’ve seen too much. Jeremy tells the story of watching his father hand his mother divorce papers in kindergarten, then later losing his job, his mother, and his marriage—experiences that shaped both his intensity and his caution.

From there, the episode pivots into healing: what it means for Fours to realize they’re already “glorious,” to stop chasing constant extraordinariness, and to learn how the ordinary can still hold real beauty. The conversation also gets timely, exploring how social media and algorithm-driven platforms raise the threshold for what feels meaningful—flattening art, attention, and even identity into “what will perform.” Jeremy offers a grounded, artist’s critique of the attention economy, and Jeff closes by teeing up a part two—because they only scratched the surface of Jeremy’s story.

Jeff welcomes longtime friend Collin Cannon for a Mistyping conversation that moves easily from friendship into depth.

Jeff and Collin explore the tension between Ones, Twos, and Sevens—digging into optimism, duty, anxiety, relationships, and what happens when things break. What emerges is a thoughtful, honest exchange about motive, freedom, and care, leaving listeners with a clearer picture of Colin and a felt sense of how real Enneagram work unfolds in conversation.

From there, the conversation moves into the messy, honest terrain of typing: why Delian first tested as a Two, flirted with being an Eight (because wouldn’t it be nice to be action-forward?), and only felt fully “seen on the page” when she discovered the self-pres Four subtype. Together they unpack the difference between stress and excess, the role of time orientation, and why gender expectations can shape how “thinking” shows up in Fours and Fives.

The heart of the episode lands on shame, significance, and the Four’s tension between longing for authenticity and using “brokenness” as an excuse to delay real life. It’s warm, funny, personal—and quietly brave.

We talk about triggers, control, and the specific places anxiety shows up—her husband’s health, her kids, her work, and a divided world that fuels her distrust of groupthink and institutions. They talk about unproductive thinking, why encouragement often doesn’t land, and what actually helps: interrupting the spiral through the body, regulating the system, and building an internal voice that stays kind and steady.

Along the way: independence as freedom (hello, car rides), “escape” as an eject button, and a funny, skeptical detour into AI and certainty.

Connect with Stacey HERE

Jeff Cook sits down with coach, author, and deconstruction theologian Stacey Wynn to clear up common misconceptions about Enneagram Eights—and name what often gets missed about their inner life.

Stacey talks about being labeled “intimidating,” why many Eights aren’t loud bullies, and how they often “fill the vacuum” when leadership lacks integrity. They explore the Eight’s small circle of trust, how Eights can care deeply (and sometimes “care aggressively”), and how anger functions less as outbursts and more as a steady internal signal—especially around dismissal, betrayal, and justice. The conversation also touches fear, control, and “decisioning,” plus the Eight-Five dynamic in relationships. They close with a brief turn toward theology and deconstruction, focusing on power, hierarchy, and healthier communities, and Stacey shares where listeners can find her work.

In this Early Access episode, Katie Whitlock sits down with Meg—32, a Type Three, newly certified as an Enneagram teacher through the Narrative Enneagram, and also a practicing therapist who integrates the Enneagram into her counseling work.

Meg and Katie explore what it actually takes to become certified in the Narrative tradition (typing interviews, guided questions, hosting panels, and learning through lived stories rather than “textbook types”), along with the posture behind it: typing as an offering, not a verdict. From there the conversation turns personal and very Three-specific—how Meg’s “threeness” formed in evangelical spaces where vulnerability and spiritual performance carried social reward, how stage leadership (worship leading) sharpened her instincts, and how the real work isn’t talking about feelings—it’s staying in the body long enough to feel them.

In this first episode, I sit down with my good friend Kim—an Enneagram skeptic who’s also one of the highest-character people I know.

We talk about why “typing other people” can feel grotesque, what it’s like to teach fifth grade at a Title I school, and how real leadership shows up when you’re willing to speak up, protect kids, and do the work yourself.

Along the way, Kim opens up about optimismboundaries, faith, and the “desert” seasons that refine you—then we use a simple motive-based mistyping chart to explore what’s actually driving her.

And her Substack is up and running : HERE

New motherhood has a way of stripping you down to the studs—and in this conversation, Enneagram coach and YouTube creator Abby Howe (a Three and brand-new mom) tells the truth about what that stripping-down feels like.

We start with the shock of postpartum life for a Three: the death of old expectations, the humbling realities of sleep deprivation, and the slow reordering of priorities from productivity and performance to presence and survival. Abby describes an unexpected gift that emerged in the wreckage—more grace for herself, and a loosening grip on the old equation of worth = output.

From there, we trace Abby’s Enneagram origin story (including an early “you’re an Eight” mistype), the moment she read The Road Back to You and recognized herself with tears, and how her comedic sketch background turned into a surprising vocational lane: making Enneagram content that helps people say, “That’s me,” and “That’s my partner.” We talk about the tension between fun entry points and stereotype fatigue, and why laughter and self-recognition often open the door to deeper work.

We close with a rich discussion of burnout and restoration—what “getting off stage” can look like for Threes, why healthy Nines can feel like oxygen, and how rest isn’t a failure … it’s part of the work.

Coming in 2026: Abby’s new book, My Enneagram, a visual guide/workbook for finding your type—built around burnout recovery, restorative rest, and growth/stress arrows.

We talk about what it feels like to present only your best self, slowing down, and the benefits of joining enneagram spaces.

In this episode of Inside Story, host Kristin Messegee sits down with Saleh Vallander—Sweden-based doctor, meditation teacher, and Enneagram author—for a rich, spacious conversation on Enneagram Type Five from the inside out.

Saleh shares how he discovered the Enneagram on a meditation retreat in 2017, why a spiritual frame matters to him, and how storytelling, metaphor, and nonverbal language can sometimes reveal a type more accurately than intellectual description. Kristin and Saleh explore the Five’s relationship to “knowing”—not as trivia-collecting, but as a visceral hunger to uncover what’s underneath things—and the challenge of trying to isolate “type” from other parts of personality (including cognitive styles and tritype dynamics).

From there, the conversation moves into the heart of Saleh's work and his book The Nine Barriers to the Heart: the way each type loses contact with essential qualities, chases a partial truth, and eventually discovers that the deepest change isn’t self-improvement—it’s acceptance. Together they name what Fives often avoid (emptiness), how that emptiness can feel like an existential threat, and why non-attachment isn’t an idealized spiritual pose but the byproduct of learning to be with what you’ve been running from.

Along the way, you’ll hear striking distinctions—Five “isolation” versus Four “estrangement,” how withdrawal can look polite on the outside while fear hides underneath, and why the quest for happiness can become its own mirage when it’s driven by the “miserable self.” If you’re a Five, love a Five, or want a more honest conversation about spiritual work that doesn’t bypass suffering, this one lands deep.

From there, Russ introduces “shunting”—the way overwhelm can push us to camp out at a stress point to stop a deeper collapse—and reframes the inner lines as adaptive, liberating pathways rather than personality trivia. The conversation turns toward the three centers(head, heart, body), why “getting more of a center” isn’t about doing more thinking or more action, and why presence isn’t a mood—it’s the capacity to be awake to whatever is true.

They also tackle a live tension in the modern Enneagram world: pushback against “prescribing health,” the difference between information and transformation, and why real development takes time, experience, and patience. Russ shares wisdom on when people (especially teenagers) may or may not be ready for Enneagram work, why he no longer tells people their type, and how presence keeps us from using the system to control ourselves—or others.

The episode closes with Russ previewing upcoming trainings (including instincts and a course on freedom), plus a heartfelt exchange on what mature Enneagram teaching looks like: humility, openness, and a lifelong willingness to keep learning.

Learn more about Russ’s work and upcoming courses: russhudson.com

Find BJ on Instagram at @monty_queso

Find BJ on Blue Sky at @montyqueso.bsky.social

We land the plane on our stance series by wrestling with the language for Fours, Fives, and Nines. 

Starting with Karen Horney’s “detached,” David Daniels’ “receptive/internalizing,” Suzanne Stabile’s “withdrawn,” and Joey Schewee’s “solitary,” they trace the history of stance, sift the pros and cons of each term, and ultimately make a case for why “withdrawn” still does the best work.

Along the way they explore how 4s, 5s, and 9s use imagination, creativity, and internal processing to get what they want, why “doing repression” has to stay central, and how stance fits into Jeff’s bigger map: center → stance → affect → processing center in a looping feedback cycle. If you’re a 4, 5, or 9 (or love one), this episode will give you sharper language for what’s happening inside when you “check out,” and why that inner move matters so much for real-world action.

Starting with early introspection and its “observer problem,” Danielle walks through the major movements that shaped modern psychology: psychoanalysis (and its depth—and unfalsifiability), behaviorism (and its measurable clarity—at the cost of inner life), and cognitivism (the shift that re-centers internal processes, from CBT’s thoughts-feelings-actions triangle to schema theory and maladaptive “software” running on the brain’s “hardware”).

Along the way, she connects these frameworks to the Enneagram’s strengths and limitations—especially why the Enneagram aligns more naturally with modalities that prize inner motive and subconscious drivers, and why that makes it difficult to study quantitatively. Is the Enneagram destined to remain mostly qualitative? Maybe. But Danielle isn’t ready to stop asking better questions—or hunting for better tools.

If you have corrections, follow-up questions, or ideas for future episodes, email hello@scientificenneagram.com or DM @scientificenneagram on Instagram.

Jeff calls the book a generational achievement and says (without exaggeration) that much of his own work has felt like “footnotes” to its conceptual architecture—especially Chapter Five.

From there, the episode turns into what it feels like when real discovery happens: Russ reflects on what he’s learned since Wisdom was published, what didn’t make it into the final manuscript, and why triads still offer layer after layer of insight when you approach them with curiosity rather than certainty.

Toward the end, Russ shares what he’s teaching next—including an upcoming Instincts course and a coaching-oriented course exploring freedom (not “robot-to-robot” tactics, but human-to-human work). If you love triads, centers, stance, spiritual practice, and the kind of Enneagram conversation that feels alive—this one is for you. Learn more about Russ’s work and upcoming courses: russhudson.com

We discuss anxiety (and why it doesn’t always apply to all reactive types), trusting yourself, and what it means to experience true intuition.

If you are interested in applying to be guest : GO HERE

This is an example of our most recent discussion on stance.

In this Rewired episode, Jeff and Katie keep their stance series rolling and turn the spotlight on the “aggressive/assertive/independent” triad—Threes, Sevens, and Eights.

They trace where the classic stance language came from Karen Horney, Riso & Hudson, Suzanne Stabile, and Joey Schewee. Along the way they name what stance actually is: your reference point (internal / external / independent), your social strategy for getting what you want, your time-orientation, and your repressed center. They contrast the “independent” stance with the “reactive” stance, talk about how often 3s, 7s, and 8s simply aren’t thinking about you (for better and worse), and defend Eights from the caricature of being perpetually angry or combative.

The back half of the conversation gets practical: how do independent types begin doing real stance work? What does it feel like to bring up your repressed feeling center (spoiler: slower, more boring, and more alive)? If you’re a 3, 7, or 8—or you love one—this episode will give you language, compassion, and concrete direction for growth.

This is an example of our most recent discussion on stance. We dive into a big term debate in Enneagram world: what do we actually call the stance of Ones, Twos, and Sixes? Are they compliant, dependent, responsive, or reactive? Katie comes in ready to retire some terms altogether, Jeff brings the history from Horney, Riso–Hudson, Palmer, Chestnut, and Naranjo, and together they pull the whole thing apart—from theory to lived experience.

Along the way, they tease out why “compliant” and “dependent” miss something essential, how thinking repression really shows up in 1–2–6 land, and why reactive may be the most honest (even if it stings a bit). They also talk about the danger of naming only behavior instead of underlying motive, why Ones are not nearly as “certain” internally as they look, and how terminology actually shapes people’s ability to see themselves clearly.

In this conversation:

• A quick history of stances: moving toward, against, and away

• Why “compliant” doesn’t describe Ones, Twos, and Sixes as well as we think

• The case for “dependent” and why it still falls short

• Reacting vs responding: what thinking repression really feels like on the ground

• How language choices impact coaching, corporate work, and self-understanding

• Where Jeff and Katie land—for now—on what we should call the 1–2–6 stance

We look at the sneaky ways ego disguises itself as “doing the work,” why simply venting or collecting tools isn’t the same as change, and how type-patterns show up when clients resist the very shifts they say they want.

We walk around the circle:

• how 4s, 5s, and 9s can get trapped in their inner world,
• how 1s, 2s, and 6s outsource their thinking and chase shoulds and diagnoses,
• how 3s, 7s, and 8s try to outrun their feelings with action and efficiency.

Along the way we talk about finding the right therapist, balancing the three centers, working with your repressed center through tiny “micro-moves,” and why noticing your patterns is often the first hard step. We also name a hard truth: Enneagram knowledge isn’t the same as doing the work.

If you’ve ever wondered, “Why do I know my type and still feel stuck?” this one’s for you.

See our other work at : www.aroundthecircle.org

Katie talks to her friend Kayci about what it feels like to be a reactive doer. We talk obligation, anger, and the struggle of juggling what you want vs the expectations of others.

In this far-reaching Type Four conversation, Kristin Messegee sits down with Enneagram coach Monique Lacoste to explore the inner landscape of one of the most mythologized and misunderstood Enneagram types.

Together they trace what it means to carry intensity, to read truth on every level, and to live with the emotional realness of the emotionally responsive types.

Monique opens the door to the lived experience of Fours: the search for authenticity, the pull toward beauty, the cultivation of mood, and the complicated dance between internal image and external mirroring. She speaks candidly about anger, passion, shame, envy, and the surprising ways these show up in real relationships, conflict, creativity, and self-understanding.

They look at Tri-Fixes, instinct theory, attachment patterns, emotional truth-telling—and remaining grounded in story, vulnerability, and real-time discovery.

Jeff sits down with Cody Harris and Josiah Goff, hosts of the Enneagram Five Podcast, to explore the inner world of Fives—especially male Fives who rarely get this kind of airtime.

Cody and Josiah talk about deconstruction, neurodivergence, learning to actually feel emotions instead of just analyzing them, and how their podcast slowly moved from “transparent” (talking about past struggles) to truly “vulnerable” (naming what they’re in the middle of right now).

If you love a Five, are a Five, or have ever wondered what’s really going on behind that stoic exterior, this one will give you language, stories, and a whole lot of compassion for the Five experience.

See our other work at : www.aroundthecircle.org

In this Early Access episode, Katie introduces the next chapter of the series: additional interviews with each Enneagram number, beginning with a rich Type One conversation featuring Natasha. Natasha shares her journey into the Enneagram, her experience of body-centered intuition, and how Ones navigate anger, resentment, and the urge to fix entire systems rather than small parts. Together, Katie and Natasha explore the deep emotional life of Ones, the difference between thinking and feeling, and why growing in self-awareness is both liberating and humbling.

Subscribe : on iTunes or on Spotify .

Danielle is an engineer and a systems thinker who sees a huge gap between the world of Enneagram teaching and the world of science and research. Her passion is to become a bridge-builder between those two spaces, helping us ask better questions, see the limits of what we know, and slowly build a real body of work around Enneagram and science.

In this conversation we talk about:

• Why doing good science with the Enneagram is so hard (self-reporting, motives vs. behavior, and the limits of current tools)
• How psychology has moved through introspection, behaviorism, psychoanalysis, and the cognitive revolution—and where the Enneagram might fit in that story
• The tension between qualitative narrative work (like panels and coaching) and quantitative data (stats, brain scans, validated scales)
• The ways cultural bias shows up in psychological research (WEIRD samples, Western assumptions, college-student data) and what that means for a tool that claims to describe 8 billion people
• Why motive may be one of the most important things science could study—and how the Enneagram offers a lens, not the final word

We also get into funding, grad students, file-drawer problems, conspiracy thinking, and why Danielle is doing this as a passion project even though there’s basically no money in it.

If you’re a scientist, grad student, therapist, or researcher who’s Enneagram-informed (or even Enneagram-skeptical) and want to talk, Danielle would love to hear from you: hello@scientificenneagram.com

I’m genuinely thrilled about this show. My hope is that The Scientific Enneagram becomes a hub for serious conversations about motive, method, and what we can actually know when we bring the Enneagram into the lab.

Thanks for supporting us on Patreon. You’re making experiments like this possible.

Joleen shares how she first met the Enneagram through a flimsy one-paragraph description of Sixes, why it didn’t stick at first, and how returning to the Enneagram years later (after a deep love affair with Myers-Briggs) completely changed the way she saw herself.

She and Katie unpack why the Enneagram goes deeper than Myers-Briggs—naming why we do what we do—and what it means that your number doesn’t change, even as you grow.

Together they tease apart the frequent mistype between Sixes, Threes, and Eights, looking at stance, energy, and especially what happens under stress: Six “six-ing out,” Three-ish sabotage, and how integrity, community, and fear show up differently in each type. Joleen opens up about the Six “committee,” the terror of being wrong, the longing for secure community, and how motherhood helped her finally trust her own judgment.

They close by reframing Sixes not as “the anxious ones,” but as people whose consideration of others is a superpower.

Kelly spent two decades teaching high school before moving into higher ed, where she now focuses on LGBTQ+ U.S. history and teacher training at UNC.

She also happens to share a life (and last name) with Jeff Cook, which means she’s lived inside Enneagram culture for a long time—while still claiming her lane as the “normal person in a world full of experts.”

Connect with all our workshops and "rewired" Podcast : HERE

Sara from Utah joins Katie to open a window into life as an Enneagram Five.

Sara unpacks the difference between physical retreat (car, corner, time-out) and an emotional shutdown that feels like a cloud rolling over the mind. She explains why Fives can be read as “cold,” how she “thinks her feelings,” and the quiet cost of borrowing energy in crisis (the post-help crash and “overdraft fees”).

They dig into doing-repression, limited access to the Feeling center, the embarrassment of visible excitement, boundaries around who gets her bandwidth, and how naming facts can be a bridge back to emotions.

We will doing eight more interviews of this kind in 2026, for each of the types.

If you are interested in being interviewed, please let us know either in the comments or send us a direct message.

We need folks who are positive of their type, have done at least 3 years worth of work, and are familiar with our work.

Thanks! Jeff

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We are speaking with Kristin Messegee, Christy Engle and Nicole from Austin—who work every day with anxiety, embodiment, and the inner life of Sixes. Together we walk through how Sixes relate to all three centers (heart, head, and body), what it’s like to live with a “maniacal clown” mind, and why calm can feel more dangerous than stress.

We talk about emotional detachment and positivity masks, the way Sixes outsource certainty to other people, and the work of learning which thoughts not to believe. The panel digs into somatic practice, health anxiety, over-functioning for family, and how stress nudges Sixes into a very Three-ish, outcome-driven “I’ll just do it myself” mode—alongside the shame, self-doubt, and “trash baby legs” humor that shows up there. We also name what security really feels like for Sixes: grounded bodies, present-moment awareness, a softer spiritual lens, and the courage to trust their own wisdom.

In this conversation we explore:

• The difference between feeling emotions and thinking about emotions
• What it’s like to live in your head while trying to look warm, relaxed, and positive
• How Sixes learn to spot thoughts that aren’t trustworthy
• The role of the body: over-caffeinating, overdoing, and slowly rebuilding trust with the soma
• Stress moves to Three: visibility, competence, frenzy, and “I’m the only one who sees the problem”
• Security moves to Nine: calm, present-moment practice, spirituality, and right-sizing fears

This one is packed with lived experience, concrete practices, and some very Six-flavored honesty.

SIGN UP FOR OUR DECEMBER 13th WORKSHOP : HERE

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What happens when our Enneagram type stops helping and starts hurting? In this live workshop, Katie and Jeff explore “Excess” – the low side of our core motive – and how each type ramps up its usual strategies until they begin to do damage to ourselves and the people we love.

We’re joined by folks from Texas to India to New Zealand as we define Excess, talk through our centers and stance, and then walk type by type through how this shows up in real life.

This is the first of two parts.

In this episode, you’ll hear Ones, Twos, Threes, and Fours share concrete stories of what it looks like when they overdo their motive, and how they’re learning to notice the red flags and move toward health.

In this session we cover:

• A working definition of “Excess”
• How dominant and repressed centers play into Excess for each type
• Ones in Excess: rigidity, over-responsibility, resentment, and doing what no one asked you to do
• Twos in Excess: over-managing relationships, self-righteous helping, martyrdom, and “do you still love me?” outreach
• Threes in Excess: overdoing action, self-deception, image maintenance, and losing touch with a true sense of self
• Fours in Excess: overindulging feelings, envy, dwelling vs depth, and getting stuck instead of creating
• How stance and time orientation (past/present/future) shape our version of Excess
• First steps out of Excess: courage for 4/5/9, wisdom for 1/2/6, moderation for 3/7/8

If you’ve ever thought, “I know my type… but I keep doing the same thing and it’s not working,” this one is for you. This video is Part One (Types 1–4); we’ll hit 5–9 in the next session.

Timothy speaks openly about chasing music dreams, choosing others’ projects over his own, rebuilding marriage, and learning to trust therapy without letting a test define him.

Together they unpack shame for 2-3-4s, an Idealist's frustration with reality, and the difference between being understood and being accepted.

If you are interested inning interviewed on Early Access and want to be a guest, fill out the intake form on Katie’s site : HERE.

Find Timothy’s work: HERE

Jackie talks about Twoness and pulling back the curtain on pride, need, the fear of lovelessness, the desire to be chosen, and the quiet grief Twos carry when they disconnect from themselves.

Together, they explore what it means to hunger for love, how pride cuts Twos off from their own needs, and why real connection requires letting ourselves be seen without manipulation, performance, or earning.

This conversation goes everywhere:

• learning to meet your own needs

• the Two’s relationship with shame

• repairing conflict

• how image types lose themselves

• why boundaries can be the deepest act of love

• what opens up when a Two stops curating who they are

If you’re a Two—or love a two—this episode is a masterclass in understanding what’s happening under the hood. It’s tender, hilarious, raw, and full of the kind of truth that reshapes how we show up for each other.

Follow the work:

🌿 Kristin: instagram.com/kristinmessegee

🌿 Jackie: instagram.com/tablefor9co

Jeff and TJ sit down with Enneagram author Steph Barron Hall to rethink everything we’ve been told about arrows.

Instead of simple “disintegration and growth” lines, Steph walks us into high side/low side movement in both directions, the role of Soul Child / recovery points, and how arrows actually support transformation when paired with balance in the three centers. Along the way we talk stress versus security as motive-based experiences, “unintentional drift” versus intentional movement, and why some stress is the resistance we need to grow.

There is some scratchy audio in the first five minutes of this podcast, but I promise that it quickly gets fixed!

If you want to order Joey's book: GO HERE

And our first book is HERE

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Jeff and TJ sit down with Enneagram teacher and Enneagram theorist Joey Schewee, author of the upcoming When Working Together Doesn’t Work: An Enneagram Guide to Productive Relationships with Coworkers.

Together they dig into mistyping: what it really means to know your type, why some numbers mistype more than others, and how gut, heart, and head play into landing on the right story about yourself.

Joey makes the case for paying far more attention to stress moves, stance, and reference point (and far less to tests, memes, and subtype hype), and the three explore why narrative teaching and “aha” moments matter more than any online quiz for finding your true type and using it for real growth.

Become a Member of ATC : HERE

In this episode, Kristin Messegee sits down with ATC host Jeff Cook to learn Type One from the inside out.

They start with the inner critic—“like being tumbled by a six-foot wave”—and why Ones wish for an edit button in real life. Jeff shares how verbal processing helps his intuition lock in, what agency feels like in the body (“gliding on glassy water”), and how anger becomes usable energy instead of something to hide.

They also explore autonomy, black-and-white thinking, resentment and “memorizing sins,” the pull to problem-solve over connect, avoiding grief, and the grounding question: What’s mine to do? 

If you want concrete tells for spotting One dynamics—in stress, in security, and in relationships—this conversation delivers.

They compare One and Six problem-solving, One and Three achievement, and talk anger as “what happens when things don’t go your way”—and what to do with it. Veronica names how therapy helped her drop performative goodness, navigate work mistakes without collapse, and show up for people over perfection.

Money Quote : “I don’t want to be right—I want to know what is right.”

Become a Member of ATC : HERE

In this episode, Kristin Messegee sits down with ATC host Jeff Cook to learn Type One from the inside out.

They start with the inner critic—“like being tumbled by a six-foot wave”—and why Ones wish for an edit button in real life. Jeff shares how verbal processing helps his intuition lock in, what agency feels like in the body (“gliding on glassy water”), and how anger becomes usable energy instead of something to hide.

They also explore autonomy, black-and-white thinking, resentment and “memorizing sins,” the pull to problem-solve over connect, avoiding grief, and the grounding question: What’s mine to do? 

If you want concrete tells for spotting One dynamics—in stress, in security, and in relationships—this conversation delivers.

Become a Member of ATC | HERE

In this episode, Jeff sits down with author and Enneagram Seven Christa Harden ("Enneagram in Marriage") to unpack how the three instincts—self-preserving, one-to-one, and social—shape relationships.

They trace why self-care isn’t selfish but foundational, how biology meets typology, and why balance across instincts matters more than “being a subtype.”

Guest

Krista Harden is a writer and podcaster (Enneagram in Marriage) with two decades of couples work. She’s currently writing a book on instincts and relationships. You can connect with her HERE.

Up next, 2s! 

Rebecca Dollard, founder of The Motherhood Mentor, is a somatic healing practitioner that helps high-achieving women and mothers who “have it all together” but feel disconnected inside. Through somatic healing, nervous-system-based coaching, and enneagram she guides them to expand their capacity, soften their edges, and lead with power and presence.

Links: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-motherhood-mentor/id1735994095

P.S. for anyone who may have noticed, we've skipped 1s. We will release the episode on 1s later on in this series, we promise!

• Inside Story on Spotify: HERE
• Inside Story on iTunes: HERE

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On this Episode, We’re kicking off Our New Podcast "Inside Story" by turning the mic toward ATC co-host T.J. Wilson (Type Nine).

This is a spacious, honest conversation about Nine life from inside —how “gut knowing” actually shows up, why autonomy matters so much to body types, and what conflict feels like when it lands in the body. T.J. names the costs of keeping the peace, the sideways ways anger can surface, and the mantra that’s changing his relationship to procrastination (“later is not a point in time”).

Along the way we get practical: decision-making when everything feels equally important, how merging can be a superpower and a trap, why stable presence draws Sixes, and what Nines need most from the people who love them (space, time, permission—and an endpoint).

Also, check out Kristin's excellent work here:

• Life Uninhibited – The Enneagram 6 Podcast (Kristin’s flagship show): kristinmessegee.com/podcasts/life-uninhibited-the-enneagram-6-podcast Kristin Messegee
• Kristin’s website (coaching for Sixes): kristinmessegee.com Kristin Messegee
• Zero to Sixy (Kristin’s community/program): kristinmessegee.com/zero-to-sixy-2 Kristin Messegee
• Instagram: @enneagram_6_coach instagram.com

Or simply search for "Early Access" on you podcast platform of choice.

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Up next: 9s!

In this week’s episode, Katie talks to Rev. Andrew Bowles (he/him), a Certified Narrative Enneagram Teacher, professional member of the International Enneagram Association, ordained minister, and experienced healthcare chaplain. We talk about why 5s and 9s look so similar, what it really feels like to feel like your presence doesn’t matter, and we also get into the worldview of each type (which means that there’s a nugget of gold to be found in this episode for every number!)

Link to Hunter’s book: HERE

Link to Life in the Trinity ministry's website:  https://www.lifeinthetrinityministry.com/

Link to Andrew’s website: https://www.pathstopresence.com/about

Andrew's instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pathstopresence9/

In this podcast we’ll be talking about everything from the end of one chapter to the opening of another.

You can see all our new Podcast feeds at Our Enneagram Channel : HERE

Quick Links:

• Saturday Online Workshops
• Free membership at AroundTheCircle.org
• Early Access podcast – Coming soon for the next-gen transitions
• Inside Story podcast – Kristin Messegee's interview series
• Scientific Enneagram – Danielle Fuller’s science + Enneagram series
• Start Here podcast (re-launching foundational series)

We talk why real growth needs empathy, why stories teach better than diagrams, and how narrative Enneagram work helps us become emotional adults.

• Subscribe to Kristin's new Podcast : HERE

• Follow Kristin’s work: Coaching + Life Uninhibited – The Enneagram 6 Podcast. kristinmessegee.com+2kristinmessegee.com+2

• And if you want to get connected our best work, do sign up for a membership on Patreon .

Early Access on Spotify: HERE

Enneagram and Gender Discussion : HERE

Music is by GIANTS AND PILGRIMS

Katie's Work : HERE

Continuing her journey around the Enneagram, Katie talks to Meaghan, a freelance American Sign Language interpreter who loves traveling, new restaurants, and advocating for the deaf community.

We talk about the difference between anger and rage, how your childhood environment sticks with you, and get into some differences between 6 and 8.

If this helps, check the full Mistyping Chart Jackie co-authored in the back of our book Around the Circle . Or find Jackie at @tablefornineco and jackieccesa.com.

Link to all of our other work : HERE

Jeff sits down with Tyler Zach to preview his upcoming Midlife Summit (Oct 21–24). They dig into why “midlife has a branding problem,” the U-curve of happiness, and how the second half can move us from productivity to fruitfulness. Tyler shares tear-worthy moments from the panels (don’t miss the Sevens), why 60 is still “midlife,” and what happens when elders step into being elders—sages who lend hard-won wisdom across generations.

In this episode:

• Midlife ≠ crisis: redefining the forties, fifties, and sixties as seasons of ascent
• “Rehiring,” not retiring: purpose, reinvention, and new risks later in life
• From skills to wisdom: becoming an elder instead of just getting older
• Integrating the three centers with age—and why that brings real joy
• Generational cycles (spring/summer/fall/winter) and what Gen Z can build next
• Stories of resilience through illness, loss, and the long cocoon

About the Summit:

The Midlife Summit runs Oct 21–24 and streams free for four days (with optional lifetime access at an early-bird price). Panels feature respected voices from the Narrative tradition, the Enneagram Institute, Personality Hacker, and more. Grab the link in the show notes to register and see the full lineup.

Early Access on Spotify: HERE

Music is by GIANTS AND PILGRIMS

Our inaugural Episode! In this discussion on Early Access, host Katie Whitlock sits down with her close friend Michael —an Ironman-in-training, soon-to-be husband, and a reluctant but curious student of the Enneagram.

In this conversation with Katie Whitlock, we will be exploring the values and cultural markers of Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z, weaving together films, music, shared culture, and the defining experiences that mark each era.

Connect with us at www.aroundthecircle.org

In this episode, Jeff sits down with counselor Ben from Los Angeles for a live Enneagram mistyping session—could he be a principled One, a justice-driven Eight, or an analytical Five?

From his early years in LA to a career in corrections and counseling, Ben shares stories of resilience, accountability, and the ongoing work of channeling anger into growth.

Along the way, we highlight how Ones and Eights approach clarity, control, and problem-solving differently, giving listeners a front-row seat to the art of discerning type through real conversation.

In this conversation with Katie Whitlock, we will be exploring the values and cultural markers of Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z, weaving together films, music, shared culture, and the defining experiences that mark each era.

Connect with us at www.aroundthecircle.org

In this Mistyping session, Sandy from Chicago—a leadership and development coach—traces how infertility,and a bruising conservatory experience pushed her from “just tell me what to do” health coaching into deeper inner work. We talk holding space for grief without “positivity bullying,” growing up Midwestern “everything’s fine,” motorcycles as moving meditation, the love–hate of French horn performance, and learning to listen to her body. Then we press into typing: the pull between Five and Nine (with Four in the wings), what it means to prefer clarity over calm, intrusion over conflict, conserving energy, and hearing the heart-message that “your needs aren’t a problem.” Along the way: birding, butterflies, boundaries, and finding a voice that can move to Eight when needed. Connect with Sandy: swansoncoaching.com.

In this conversation with Katie Whitlock, we will be exploring the values and cultural markers of Gen X, Millennials, and Gen Z, weaving together films, music, shared culture, and the defining experiences that mark each era.

In this episode we tackle Gen X: from latchkey kids and divorce to the rise of the internet and shifting individualism, we ask what makes each generation unique, how those shifts impact personality and relationships, and why the Enneagram found fertile ground in Gen X’s world.

Connect with us at www.aroundthecircle.org

What you’ll learn

• A working definition of sexual desire vs. sexual behavior
• Why instincts set the framework and type adds nuance
• Gifts/challenges of self-pres, social, and sexual dominance
• How repressed instincts derail empathy, safety, or passion
• Common pairing dynamics (self-pres × sexual, etc.) and best practices
• Why stress, sleep, money, and context change desire—and what to do about it

Connect with our guest

• IG: @enneagasm (Sexy First Fridays with therapist Lindsay Frazier)
• Web: EnneagramSexpert.com

AS always : all our best material is at : www.aroundthecircle.org

You can connect to her work here: www.reflecttheoriginal.au

For the full interview go to: aroundthecircle.org

If you are interested in our mistyping guide : GO HERE

The guide is only in the print version.

You can connect with her : HERE

Sign up for a membership to all of our stuff : HERE

Jump in, tell us your thoughts on Spotify comments or on our website.

__

The mistyping guide is **EXCLUSIVELY** in the print version of the book.

And can be found here: https://a.co/d/g7jBNnj

If you are interested in seeing info about the Weld County Food Bank : GO HERE

You can connect with us and see all our best stuff at : aroundthecircle.org

And check out Movie Typing : HERE

We would love to talk with you!

If you are interested in seeing info about the Weld County Food Bank : GO HERE

You can connect with us and see all our best stuff at : aroundthecircle.org

And check out Movie Typing : HERE

_____

Our Start Here Podcast and our Basics series is : HERE

All our Best material is at aroundthecircle.org

If you are interested in seeing info about the Weld County Food Bank : GO HERE

You can connect with us and see all our best stuff at : aroundthecircle.org

_____

Our Start Here Podcast and our Basics series is : HERE

All our Best material is at aroundthecircle.org

Our conversation with Joel Stabile is HERE

Our Conversation with Jackie Brewster is HERE

If you are interested in seeing info about the Weld County Food Bank : GO HERE

You can connect with us and see all our best stuff at : aroundthecircle.org

I apologize for the audio quality, but we thought the content here worth posting and discussing.

You can find Adam's new book : HERE

Grace and peace, Jeff

If you would like to purchase our book with the mistyping guide, it is HERE.

To connect with us or to get your own mistyping interview, connect with us at: aroundthecircle.org

We speak with Rachel from Minnesota as she reconsiders what she has always been told about her Enneagram Type.

If you would like to purchase our book with the mistyping guide, it is HERE.

If you are interested in doing a typing session with us, you can connect with us on Instagram: HERE.

For all our other content go to : www.aroundthecircle.org

Full version at www.aroundthecircle.org

Sign up to be a member and listen to the full version : HERE

Buy the Print or Kindle version of "Around the Circle" : HERE

Buy the Print or Kindle version of "Around the Circle" : HERE

Together, they explore how type-awareness shapes coaching work, from trauma-informed healing and grief integration to identity formation and shadow work.

Whether you're a coach or simply Enneagram-curious, this conversation is rich with wisdom, humor, and grounded strategies.

Follow and the guests on Instagram

Melissa is at : @enneagrampaths,

Mandy is at : @mandycapehart,

Jackie is at :  @tablefor9co

And if you are interested in doing coaching work with TJ, do direct message us at aroundthecircle.org or on Instagram @aroundthecirclepodcast .

Click HERE for the full discussion.

What happens when engineers, psychologists, and Enneagram coaches meet in one person? You get Danielle Fuller—founder of Scientific Enneagram, expert in data, and a compelling voice at the intersection of systems theory and personality work.

In this episode, we dive deep with Danielle into the scientific validity of the Enneagram: What counts as science? Can the Enneagram ever be falsifiable? How does it overlap with models like Big Five, attachment theory, and ego development? And what kind of research might meaningfully elevate Enneagram discourse?

We also explore why the Enneagram may resist quantification—because it’s aimed at motives, not behaviors—and why that doesn’t disqualify it as a tool for serious study. Danielle brings a unique blend of logic and curiosity, and we’re thrilled to share this rich, thoughtful conversation.

Find Danielle at @scientificenneagram and at scientificenneagram.com.

Tomorrow our good friend Tyler Zach is beginning his much anticipated Enneasummit online on the Enneagram Instincts.

Click here for FREE Access : https://www.tylerzach.com/a/2148111985/gTjkbNt4

For the full interview with Ashton go : HERE

Hunter' new book releases on May 22 and can be found HERE.

Hunter Mobley is an Enneagram teacher who leads a yearlong Contemplative Cohort program at Suzanne and Joe Stabile's teaching center, The Micah Center, in Dallas, Texas.

Hunter' new book releases on May 22 and can be found HERE.

Hunter Mobley is an Enneagram teacher who leads a yearlong Contemplative Cohort program at Suzanne and Joe Stabile's teaching center, The Micah Center, in Dallas, Texas.

Tyler Zach joins us to talk about the June Enneagram Summit he’s hosting—focused entirely on instincts. Go HERE TO SIGN UP.

We also explore his work tracing the History of the Enneagram, offering context for where the movement has been and where it may be heading.

🔗 Explore Tyler Zach’s Work:

📖 Read: The History of the Enneagram

💻 Website: tylerzach.com

📷 Instagram: @GospelForEnneagram

🎥 YouTube: @gospelforenneagram

📱 Facebook: @gospelforenneagram

🐦 X/Twitter: @gospelforgram

 Kristin is an Enneagram Six. She is a coach serving and supporting Enneagram Sixes and she hosts the podcast Life Uninhibited, which is an Enneagram podcast which is tailored for Loyalists.

You can find her on Instagram : HERE

And her beautiful podcast: HERE

In this episode, Jeff and TJ welcome Dr. Billy Schewee and Professor Kelly Langley Cook to explore how the Enneagram intersects with parenting, teaching, and educational leadership. From college prep to classroom dynamics, the conversation highlights how knowing yourself—and your students—can reshape how we learn, teach, and relate.

We conclude (!!) our deep dive into each of the types with the most informed people we know.

This time we're talking with our good friend Jessica, PhD candidate and truly wonderful human being being.

This is the only the first hour of our deep dive.

You can here stream the full streaming now : HERE

Her work, showcased at Enneagram & Paths, blends rich understanding with minimalistic design to make complex concepts accessible and visually striking.

See more of her work at : @enneagrampaths on Instagram.

The full interview is at : www.aroundthecircle.org

To take a look at our June 27-28 Event : HERE

Links to Streaming "The Secret of Nimh" : HERE

Or on YouTube : HERE

We are beginning our deep dive into Heroism in Enneagram Sixes.

We're thrilled to jump into the world of the Rats of Nimh.

Enjoy!

To take a look at our June 27-28 Event : HERE

Links to Streaming "The Secret of Nimh" : HERE

Or on YouTube : HERE

We are beginning our deep dive into Heroism in Enneagram Sixes.

We're thrilled to jump into the world of the Rats of Nimh.

Enjoy!

To take a look at our June 27-28 Event : HERE

Links to Streaming "The Secret of Nimh" : HERE

Or on YouTube : HERE

"Heroes" is finally here.

We are starting the deep dive into our favorite heroes in film and their Enneagram types.

This is our introduction to thinking hard about Heroism at times like this.

We continue our deep dive into each of the types with the most informed people we know.

This time we're talking with our good friend Heidi, counselor extraordinaire.

This is the first hour of our three hour (!) deep dive.

You can here that streaming now : HERE

Start Here Podcast is Here

Our Intro to Instincts is HERE

Joel and Jim's Book is Here

This is the second of ten episodes pairing five sets of Enneagram Triads.

We move to introducing Affect Groups and pair them with the Intelligence Centers. Lots to like here.

This is the first of ten episodes pairing five sets of enneagram triads.

We begin with an intro and the pairing of the Intelligence Centers and the Stances.

Whether you are in a relationship or not, we all engage those with Enneagram types different than ours. 

Here is our deep dive into each of the types and what we ourselves can work on to succeed in relationships better.

We continue our deep dive into each of the types with the most informed people we know.

This time we have Enneagram coach Katie Whitlock speaking about the inner life of Threes.

You can connect with Katie's work at : HERE

You can find Jackie's Instagram presence : HERE

We continue our deep dive into each of the types with the most informed people we know.

This time we have Enneagram coach Jackie Contessa speaking about the inner life of Twos.

You can connect with Jackie's work at : HERE

You can find Jackie's Instagram presence : HERE

We continue our deep dive into each of the types with the most informed people we know.

This time we have the wonderful Lindsay Taylor speaking about the inner life of Ones.

You can connect with Lindsey's work at : https://www.hopespringscounseling.net/who-are-we

Around the Circle Membership : HERE

We had a delightful time with the Stephanie Barron Hall who gave us a sneak peak into her new book "Enneagram in Real Life."

We spoke for over two hours about an insight of hers, she called "Thresholds."

Again, if you'd like to enjoy the full discussion go : HERE

• Understanding how each Enneagram type engages with time.
• Reflecting on past lessons to shape your identity and growth.
• Grounding yourself in the present with actionable steps.
• Envisioning a meaningful future with clear goals and habits.

Download our New Year Enneagram Reflection Worksheet HERE to dive deeper and start the year with purpose!

For all of Beth's excellent books : HERE

___

We continue our series asking the most informed folks we know deep dive questions about their Enneagram type.

Beth is a world class enneagram scholar, author of multiple books and stellar human being.

You can listen to the full version of the interview HERE

We had a guest fall through, but no worries.

We ask Chat to give us its top 50 questions about the Enneagram.

Jeff had a great time with this list; TJ was not impressed.

We type all the characters and walk through the film.

We loved this time, and if you'd like to hear the second half of this conversation go to : www.aroundthecircle.org

Our Youtube is HERE

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In this episode of Around the Circle, we’re wrapping up our “New to This!” series by diving into the power of asking the right questions to understand yourself and your relationships better. The Enneagram is more than a tool for personality typing—it’s a mirror that helps you see yourself clearly. Join Jeff and TJ as they explore 10 essential questions to help you assess your inner life, reflect on your emotional patterns, and uncover the “thing under the thing” that shapes how you navigate the world. Whether you're just starting with the Enneagram or coming back to it for a fresh perspective, this episode will inspire you to ask, reflect, and grow.

We also share details about our upcoming "20 Questions" series on Patreon, featuring interviews with some of the most insightful Enneagram thinkers. Grab a pen and paper (or just your thoughts) and join us for a thoughtful exploration of the questions that really matter.

Visit AroundTheCircle.org for more resources and to access exclusive content!

Our Youtube is HERE

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In this episode, we take a deep dive into one of the most transformative concepts in the Enneagram: repressed centers. Every personality type has a center of intelligence—thinking, feeling, or doing—that is underutilized, creating unique challenges and growth opportunities.

Here’s what we explore:

What are repressed centers, and why do they matter?

How to identify your repressed center and the role it plays in shaping your personality.

Practical ways to work with your repressed center to achieve greater balance and fulfillment.

Erika Jobes Podcast | "The Real Enneagram : HERE

In this episode of Around the Circle, hosts Jeff Cook and TJ Wilson dive into the unique motivations and challenges of Enneagram Type Eights with Erika Jobes.

Erika founded one of the very first Enneagram podcasts, and has done truly impressive work both in Enneagram theory, but more importantly try on herself. We're excited to share this episode with you!

📖 Check out Mandy’s book Restorative Grief : HERE

Healing and the many different faces of loss:

"Humility becomes very helpful when I take the back seat and become a witness."

"Anger is an incredible protector; it’s full of wisdom that says, 'Something is wrong here.'"

"Feelings are the language of emotions, while sensations are what we experience in our body where emotions begin."

"Grief is just the other side of the coin of love."

"Our culture treats grief as an enemy, minimizing it to keep productivity alive."

🌟 Follow Mandy Capehart: Instagram, Facebook, and Patreon @mandycapehart

In this episode of Around the Circle, hosts Jeff Cook and TJ Wilson dive into the unique motivations and challenges of Enneagram Type Sevens with Joel Stabile.

Joel creates and cultivates the most popular Enneagram Podcast on the Planet along side Suzanne Stabile. He has a *wonderful* understanding of the heart of Enneagram Sevens. This is a sample of our deep dive. The rest can be found on our Patreon page linked above.

Our Youtube is HERE

The Enneagram is a tool that helps us understand different personality types by grouping them into three core “centers” or ways of viewing the world: the Head, Heart, and Body. Each center shapes how we process our experiences, respond to stress, and connect with others.

In this episode, we break down each of these centers with simple analogies and relatable examples, making it easy to see where you might fit. Whether you’re looking to understand yourself better or connect more deeply with the people in your life, this intro to the Enneagram opens up a new way of seeing yourself and others.

In this episode of Around the Circle, hosts Jeff Cook and TJ Wilson dive into the unique motivations and challenges of Enneagram Type Sixes.

Joined by Dr. Mary Slattery, a seasoned middle school principal and insightful Enneagram Six, they explore the themes of trust, relational dynamics, and the desire for assurance.

Mary shares personal experiences from her career, illustrating how Sixes often navigate life through careful preparation, a need for safety, and an ever-present awareness of potential challenges. Together, they tackle questions that reveal the core motivations of Sixes, how they view the world, and what it takes to build trust and stability in uncertain times.

Our Youtube is HERE

Together, Jeff and TJ reveal "Eleven Telltale Signs" that the Enneagram is doing its job—from enhanced self-awareness to improved emotional regulation. 

The Enneagram is more than just a map of personality; it's a mirror that helps you see yourself clearly and navigate your relationships with greater awareness. In this episode, hosts Jeff Cook, a seasoned philosophy professor from Greeley, Colorado, and TJ Wilson, a coffee aficionado and Enneagram ninja, explore what real progress with the Enneagram looks like. If you're new to the Enneagram, just starting to dive into this tool, or wondering if it’s actually making a difference in your life, this conversation is for you.

Our Youtube is HERE

Welcome to Around the Circle! The Enneagram is more than a personality quiz—it’s a powerful tool for self-understanding, personal growth, and improving relationships. If you’ve discovered your Enneagram type and are wondering what’s next, this episode is for you. Jeff Cook, philosophy professor, and DJ Wilson, coffee expert and Enneagram Ninja, dive into 6 key ideas for newcomers who want to move beyond the basics and begin applying the Enneagram in meaningful ways.

📍 What You’ll Learn in This Episode:

1. Finding Yourself on the Map: What it really means to know your type and how to get started with it.
2. The Power of Introspection: Why looking inward is essential for growth.
3. Avoiding Common Pitfalls: Why the Enneagram is not about others telling you who you are.
4. Listening for Discomfort: How uncomfortable insights signal meaningful growth.
5. Going Slow to Go Deep: Why Enneagram work is a long game, not a quick fix.
6. The Value of Community: How learning with friends or loved ones enriches the journey.

💡 Recommended Resources:

• The Road Back to You by Suzanne Stabile & Ian Morgan Cron
• The Wisdom of the Enneagram by Don Riso & Russ Hudson
• Type-specific books by Tyler Zach and Beth McCord
• The Essential Enneagram by Daniels & Price

📖 Where to Start:

New to the Enneagram? Check out our "Start Here" podcast series! These episodes help you explore the nine types and confirm your type with confidence.

🎯 Key Takeaways:

• The Enneagram is a map, but identifying your type is just the beginning.
• True growth happens when you engage with your inner motives, not just behaviors.
• Surrounding yourself with thoughtful friends or community helps you gain new perspectives on your journey.

🔗 Find More Content:

For more insights, check out our podcast catalog, YouTube channel, and Patreon, where we offer bonus episodes and additional resources.

✨ "The Enneagram won't tell you who you are—it helps you discover it for yourself." Ready to dive in? Let's explore how to use this tool to grow, connect, and live more authentically.

👥 Hosts:

• Jeff Cook – Professor of Philosophy, Enneagram enthusiast
• TJ Wilson – Coffee guru, theology lover, Enneagram expert

The Link to our Youtube work is HERE

And we are excited to kick off a new series on the Around the Circle Podcast called 20 Questions! In this series, we bring on some of our favorite guests to dive deep into fascinating conversations about life, growth, and the Enneagram.

In this first episode, we welcome our friend Michael Shahan, a licensed marriage and family therapist based in Kansas City, Missouri, with a special focus on integrating the Enneagram into therapy. Michael shares his story of mistyping, the challenges of self-discovery, and the growth he experienced through this journey of identifying as a Type Six after years of thinking he was a Type Nine.

In this first episode, we welcome our friend Michael Shahan, a licensed marriage and family therapist based in Kansas City, Missouri, with a special focus on integrating the Enneagram into therapy. Michael shares his story of mistyping, the challenges of self-discovery, and the growth he experienced through this journey of identifying as a Type Six after years of thinking he was a Type Nine.

Link to Part II on Youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoGUkJDAIR4

Link to Part II on Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

The Link to our Youtube work is HERE

Find our "Villains Series" here : MOVIE TYPING

___

30 years ago two of America’s great films were released on the same day.

Neither the Shawshank Redemption nor Pulp Fiction won the Academy award for best picture, but they commonly top lists of the most beloved films of this generation.

We are picking up the second of the two in our double feature. Pulp Fiction is a redemptive story of profane, deeply flawed human beings. It is a perfectly constructed, very adult film with rich characters worth talking about.

With that, we dive into arguably the most celebrated piece of art made in the 1990’s Quinton Tarantino's Pulp Fiction.

The Link to our Youtube work is HERE

Find our "Villains Series" here : MOVIE TYPING

___

30 years ago two of America’s great films were released on the same day.

Neither the Shawshank Redemption nor Pulp Fiction won the Academy award for best picture, but they commonly top lists of the most beloved films of this generation.

We are picking up the second of the two in our double feature. Pulp Fiction is a redemptive story of profane, deeply flawed human beings. It is a perfectly constructed, very adult film with rich characters worth talking about.

With that, we dive into arguably the most celebrated piece of art made in the 1990’s Quinton Tarantino's Pulp Fiction.

The Link to our Youtube work is HERE

Find our "Villains Series" here : MOVIE TYPING

___

30 years ago two of America’s great films were released on the same day.

Neither the Shawshank Redemption nor Pulp Fiction won the Academy award for best picture, but they commonly top lists of the most beloved films of this generation.

We are picking up the second of the two in our double feature. Pulp Fiction is a redemptive story of profane, deeply flawed human beings. It is a perfectly constructed, very adult film with rich characters worth talking about.

With that, we dive into arguably the most celebrated piece of art made in the 1990’s Quinton Tarantino's Pulp Fiction.

The Link to our Youtube work is HERE

Find our "Villains Series" here : MOVIE TYPING

__

On October 14, 1994, two of the greatest American films were released.

The Shawshank Redemption, an adaptation of Stephen King's novella, was the directorial debut of Frank Darabont. Though it opened in only 33 theaters and won no Academy Awards, it now holds the #1 spot on IMDb’s list of the greatest films of all time. In 2020, TJ and I wrapped our Enneagram and Villainy series with a deep dive into this timeless classic, exploring the story’s primary antagonist, Warden Norton, through the lens of an Enneagram Nine.

The second film, Pulp Fiction, was the highly anticipated follow-up from Quentin Tarantino. Regularly ranked alongside Shawshank as one of the most important films since the 1970s, Pulp Fiction is a dark, ensemble piece filled with characters in desperate need of redemption.

In celebration of the 30th anniversary of these iconic films, we’re excited to present a double feature. First up, our recut deep dive into The Shawshank Redemption. You can also explore our Enneagram villain series on our sister podcast feed, Movie Typing, linked in the show notes. Whether you’re curious about villainous Nines, Fours, or Sevens, it’s well worth a listen.

Next week, we'll release our treatment of Pulp Fiction, focusing on the inner lives of Enneagram Fives, Eights, Fours, Sixes, and Ones.

On October 14, 1994, two of the greatest American films were released.

The Shawshank Redemption, an adaptation of Stephen King's novella, was the directorial debut of Frank Darabont. Though it opened in only 33 theaters and won no Academy Awards, it now holds the #1 spot on IMDb’s list of the greatest films of all time. In 2020, TJ and I wrapped our Enneagram and Villainy series with a deep dive into this timeless classic, exploring the story’s primary antagonist, Warden Norton, through the lens of an Enneagram Nine.

The second film, Pulp Fiction, was the highly anticipated follow-up from Quentin Tarantino. Regularly ranked alongside Shawshank as one of the most important films since the 1970s, Pulp Fiction is a dark, ensemble piece filled with characters in desperate need of redemption.

In celebration of the 30th anniversary of these iconic films, we’re excited to present a double feature. First up, our recut deep dive into The Shawshank Redemption. You can also explore our Enneagram villain series on our sister podcast feed, Movie Typing, linked in the show notes. Whether you’re curious about villainous Nines, Fours, or Sevens, it’s well worth a listen.

Next week, we'll release our treatment of Pulp Fiction, focusing on the inner lives of Enneagram Fives, Eights, Fours, Sixes, and Ones.

Our PATREON Page : https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

Our YouTube Videos : https://www.youtube.com/@AroundtheCircle

Beth McCord Interview : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG1bC4_PzJQ

You can find all of Joey Schewee's work here : https://wesolutions.life/

We have also began releasing portions of our new book online here : https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

You can find all of Joey Schewee's work here : https://wesolutions.life/

Part 2 on Patreon : HERE

Here's our final discussion of Instincts, and we brought on longtime friend Tyler Zach.

This is our last episode on Instincts and Subtypes. Jump in as we cover those with a dominant Social instinct.

Links:

Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

Home : https://www.aroundthecircle.org/

We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.

We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!

Links:

Patreon : https://www.patreon.com/aroundthecircle

Home : https://www.aroundthecircle.org/

We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.

We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!

We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.

We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!

We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.

We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!

We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our continued deep dive into the Enneagram Instincts.

We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!

Do look for their work here if you are interested in connecting : www.theartofgrowth.org

We are throwing out some big ideas about a big topic. This is our deep dive into Instincts. We are setting a foundation, pitching a runway to take off from, and we hope you jump in!

We tried our best to come to the topic, not as experts but as travelers inviting others to journey into this world with us.

After spending a year and a half meditating on the material, learning more, reviewing all the resources and trying to get our own hearts and minds around the topic: we feel that intro works very well.

All the big ideas are here, and we're proud this discussion as a launching point for all the stuff we want to say this summer about Instincts and beyond.

The one change we would make is that we started with a heavy focus on subtypes, and by the end-and still today--we prefer to elevate the idea of Instincts and Social Energy as primary.

Over the coming two months, we will be walking through the three instincts, interviewing experts and laying out our theories for discussion.

As always, if you are interested in talking shop with us, we meet monthly on Zoom, find the links to all our stuff at Aroundthecircle.org

Do share this with those you discuss enneagram with, send us your thoughts on instagram, and we always appreciate stars on spotify, itunes and the rest.

Dear listener, we continue to be immensely grateful for your support and attention. Our deep hope is that these podcasts point you toward happiness and well being. We hope they make you a better person and your relationships more rich and fruitful.

We continue to record with these hopes firmly in mind, and want you to know we are cheering for you, for your strength as you overcome the obstacles ahead, for contentment, grace, and maturity through all life throws your way.

Dear listener, on this day, may every good thing be yours.

TJ and I have had a delightful time walking through the beats and themes of this film and found all the beats highly discussable.

TJ and I have had a delightful time walking through the beats and themes of this film and found all the beats highly discussable.

If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

If you are interested in more of our Pop Culture deep dives go to : Movie Typing podcast

Or Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

And here is Our website

If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

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If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

If you want to join us on Zoom Monthly, do go to aroundthecircle.org and click "Events".

Here's our links:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

The combination of Enneagram and how it informs what is put down in the books, letters, and poetry that eventually became the Bible is our wheelhouse and a huge delight.

Jump in.

We hope you'll share this with folks in your life who are enneagram curious and love the Bible

We hope that even those who know nothing about the Bible will give this a try.

Send us your thoughts on the Instagram.

May all good things be yours.

Links to all our stuff are here:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

The combination of Enneagram and how it informs what is put down in the books, letters, and poetry that eventually became the Bible is our wheelhouse and a huge delight.

Jump in.

We hope you'll share this with folks in your life who are enneagram curious and love the Bible

We hope that even those who know nothing about the Bible will give this a try.

Send us your thoughts on the Instagram.

May all good things be yours.

Links to all our stuff are here:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

The combination of Enneagram and how it informs what is put down in the books, letters, and poetry that eventually became the Bible is our wheelhouse and a huge delight.

Jump in.

We hope you'll share this with folks in your life who are enneagram curious and love the Bible

We hope that even those who know nothing about the Bible will give this a try.

Send us your thoughts on the Instagram.

May all good things be yours.

Links to all our stuff are here:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

We sat down with Tyler Zach, champion and advocate for all things Enneagram, to talk about how stance effects our connection with others.

Links to the Enneagram conference will be posted in late February here.

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

Links to the Enneagram conference will be posted in late February here.

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

Links to the Enneagram conference will be posted in late February here.

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

Links to the Enneagram conference will be posted in late February here.

Here's the links to all our stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Support the work at Patreon.

Our website

Here are all the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

This is a series for a new year.

We found that these reflections gave us more consideration for those we love who are 891s and our hope is that these reflections inspire those in the body triad to take stock of their own perspective and refocus their energy - to do the work only they can do on themselves and in the world.

Here are all the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

This is a series for a new year.

We found that these reflections gave us more sympathy for those we love who are 234s and our hope is that these reflections challenge those in the heart triad to give up comparison for the sake of other healthier sources of self-assessment and personal value.

Here are all the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

This is a series for a new year.

We found that these reflections gave us more sympathy for those we love who are 234s and our hope is that these reflections challenge those in the heart triad to give up comparison for the sake of other healthier sources of self-assessment and personal value.

Here are all the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Today, we jump in to the discussion.

This material isn't fully formed, but we love recording our discoveries, so take a listen and let us know your own thoughts.

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Naming our temptations, exposing our struggles, yet elevating our healthiest self is a chief value of Enneagram work.

We jump into all the types here with the great Hunter Mobley.

In the minds of some, The Muppet Christmas Carol is not only the best telling of the Scrooge story, but the best Christmas movie ever.

We will be tackling this in three parts. We hope you enjoy as much as we do the world of Gonzo, Kermit, Fozzie and Michael Caine.

Here's the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our Website

In the minds of some, The Muppet Christmas Carol is not only the best telling of the Scrooge story, but the best Christmas movie ever.

We will be tackling this in three parts. We hope you enjoy as much as we do the world of Gonzo, Kermit, Fozzie and Michael Caine.

Here's the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our Website

Here's the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our Website

Here's the links to all our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our Website

You can find Joey's work at https://wesolutions.life/ and https://www.instagram.com/enneagramparents/

Joey Schewee is an exceedingly thoughtful theorists of all things enneagram. In this conversation, we get a chance to push into spaces that--to our knowledge--have not been put in print or systematized.

Buckle up. This was a delightful interview and experience.

HEre's the links to our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our website

HEre's the links to our other stuff:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our website

In this episode, we go around the circle and discuss each type's Underlying Feeling, and the overlaps with orientation to time (past, present or future), and focus (autonomy, attention, security).

In this episode, we go around the circle and discuss each type's Underlying Feeling, and the overlaps with orientation to time (past, present or future), and focus (autonomy, attention, security).

Here's the Original Raw Cut of 78s, if you missed it, and really want the full ATC experience.

We are wrapping our deep dive into the types through music with 9s and 1s.

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Jeff's Always Changing Spotify Enneagram List

(By the way if you actually read the show notes and found this, Bravo! Send me your thoughts on future types at our instagram link : HERE)

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our website

Here's the Original Raw Cut of 78s.

We are wrapping our (3 hour!) conversatiuon about 7s and 8s, and their inner lives exposed in some of our favorite music. This includes Annie Lennox, NIN, and Nirvana.

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Jeff's Always Changing Spotify Enneagram List

(By the way if you actually read the show notes and found this, Bravo! Send me your thoughts on future types at our instagram link : HERE)

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Our website

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Jeff's Always Changing Spotify Enneagram List

(By the way if you actually read the show notes and found this, Bravo! Send me your thoughts on future types at our instagram link : HERE)

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund our work at Patreon

Our website

In this episode we look at artists like Bob Dylan, Sting, Bruce Springstein, REM, Jay-Z and Metallica.

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Jeff's Always Changing Spotify Enneagram List

(By the way if you actually read the show notes and found this, Bravo! Send me your thoughts on future types at our instagram link : HERE)

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Jeff's Always Changing Spotify Enneagram List

(By the way if you actually read the show notes and found this, Bravo! Send me your thoughts on future types at our instagram link : HERE)

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Jeff's Always Changing Spotify Enneagram List

(By the way if you actually read the show notes and found this, Bravo! Send me your thoughts on future types at our instagram link : HERE)

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Links to all our other stuff are here:

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Don't type your kids! But being aware of how stance plays a roll in the parent/child relationship can do a lot of good.

In this episode, we discuss the different combinations of Aggressive, Reactive and Withdrawn parents and children, and offer some thoughts on the benefits and challenges of those pairs.

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What can partners learn from each other when they share a stress/security line?

In this episode, we discuss the pairing of 7s, 6s and 5s with their stress-type partner.

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What can partners learn from each other when they share a stress/security line?

In this episode, we discuss the pairing of 7s, 6s and 5s with their stress-type partner.

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

This is less typing and more theory, and we had a stellar time and hope you enjoy the conversation.

_____

If you'd like to hear the rest of Kyle and Randy's work, you can find it: HERE.

If you want to hear the debate referenced by Jeff over the lack of Scientific literature you can find it : HERE.

The link to Clue is here for: ITUNES or SPOTIFY. (Just click one.)

If you are looking to type yourself using the enneagram, got to the START HERE PODCAST.

Be well!

We go around the circle discussing each type, particularly how stance work can make us more effective in leadership and in being led.

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

We go around the circle discussing each type, particularly how stance work can make us more effective in leadership and in being led.

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

And if you are interested in helping support our work, please go to our Patreon.

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Movie Typing podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Movie Typing podcast

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Movie Typing podcast

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website

Start Here podcast

Help fund future deep dives (Patreon)

Our website