From MrBeast to Jackie Aina to Becca Bloom, they break down why some creators build fanbases that no algorithm can replicate — and what that means for brands, marketers, and the future of discovery.

If you run partnerships, work with creators, or build growth programs — this conversation will change the way you see the creator economy.

Chapters

00:00 – Welcome & intro to the episode

01:05 – The idea of “AI-resistant” creators

02:20 – Trust as the foundation of creator influence

04:00 – Parasocial relationships and why they matter

06:00 – Full-self authenticity: MrBeast, Jaden Animations & more

09:40 – Jackie Aina: balancing privacy with trust

12:00 – Influence without oversharing: the power of selective authenticity

14:50 – Becca Bloom & engineered likability vs. genuine connection

17:10 – What brands should really look for in creators

19:25 – Creator discovery vs. AI discovery

21:45 – The future of creator trust in an AI world

22:30 – Closing thoughts & what’s next

Zorz helps brands launch and scale referral, affiliate, and partnership programs that convert.

👉 hello@zorz.com | zorz.com

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#BehindTheMirror #CreatorEconomy #Authenticity #AIMarketing #AffiliateMarketing #ReferralMarketing #InfluencerMarketing #Zorz #CreatorTrust #MarketingPodcast #BrandGrowth

From the rise of zero-click search to the rapid evolution of LLMs like ChatGPT and Claude, Keith and David explore what these changes mean for marketers, agencies, and brands trying to stay relevant. They discuss the declining dominance of traditional SEO, how consumer behavior is shifting toward AI-driven answers, and why content still matters more than ever - even if the way it’s consumed is changing.

Other key topics include:

• How AI is disrupting Google’s business model and ad revenue

• The tension between AI-dominated, AI-native, and AI-resistant industries

• Where the biggest opportunities lie for performance marketers

• Why adaptability and strategy will be the most valuable skills in the AI era

Whether you’re a CMO, agency owner, or growth marketer, this conversation offers crucial insights into how to pivot, innovate, and lead in a world where AI is rewriting the rules of digital marketing.

Tune in to learn how to future-proof your marketing strategy before the next big shift hits.

From mass media publishers to creators and influencers, the discussion dives into how partnerships fuel discovery, drive efficiency, and deliver long-term ROI. Ashley breaks down how brands can test, iterate, and scale smarter—turning affiliate from a transactional channel into a strategic growth engine.

If you’re rethinking how affiliate and creator partnerships fit into your marketing mix, this episode will change the way you see the funnel.

Chapterization

00:00 – Introduction – Keith welcomes Ashley Whetung and Liem Vuong

00:30 – Affiliate Misconceptions – Why brands see affiliate as bottom-of-funnel

01:55 – Beyond Demand Capture – Affiliate as awareness & trust-building channel

04:00 – Expanding the Affiliate Spectrum – Mass media, creators, and hybrid models

06:10 – ROI & Up-Funnel Testing – ROAS, CAC, and opportunities beyond last-click

08:30 – Efficiency & Cash Flow – Performance-based payouts and ad spend efficiency

10:25 – Macro Environment Impact – Economic pressures shaping brand strategy

12:40 – Influencer Evolution – Hybrid creator models and long-term value

14:40 – Authenticity & Trust – Building lasting relationships through creators

16:20 – Case Studies – NordVPN, Skillshare, and other breakout examples

17:20 – Testing & Iteration – Building your affiliate/creator “muscle”

20:20 – Scaling Strategically – From first campaigns to repeatable growth

22:25 – Borrowing Trust – Startups leveraging partners for credibility

23:30 – Closing & Key Takeaways – Lessons on persistence, strategy, and long-term impact

Together, they unpack how brands can leverage partnerships in an AI-driven world, why governance and context matter more than ever, and which parts of the recruitment and program management process are most ripe for disruption.

From inclusivity in influencer marketing to the rise of LLMs shaping how products are discovered, this conversation is packed with insights for marketers navigating a rapidly shifting landscape.

In this episode of Behind the Mirror, Keith Posehn and Liem Vuong sit down with Eric Potter, COO of OpMethods, to unpack what’s really happening in the CRM space. From the slowdown of Salesforce’s innovation, to HubSpot’s aggressive push forward, to the rise of new AI-native players like Notion and Airtable, this conversation breaks down where the opportunities lie - and the pitfalls leaders need to avoid.

If you’re a CRO, RevOps leader, or founder making decisions about your company’s sales and marketing stack, this episode is your roadmap to the evolving CRM market and how to choose the right tools for what’s coming next.

#MarketingStrategy #PerformanceMarketing #ConsumerJourney #Attribution #DataDriven #Zorz #BehindTheMirror

In this episode, Keith Posehn sits down with Liem Vuong to talk about the silent killer of affiliate growth: stagnancy. They explore why playing it safe can actually be the riskiest move in today's landscape and what to do about it. From battling organizational inertia to setting bold goals and testing your way forward, this conversation is packed with real talk and practical strategies. Whether you're leading a program or advising one, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on how to grow, adapt, and scale in affiliate marketing.

You’ll hear:

• Why the right partner can help you reach audiences you never thought possible

• How relevance and trust fuel each other — and how affiliate programs can tap into both

• Why it's time to look beyond last-click and rethink what value really means

• How a well-structured program can elevate your brand across non-traditional channels

Whether you're building out your first program or fine-tuning a mature one, this episode is a reminder: partnerships are more than just performance - they're about perception, too.

You’ll hear personal horror stories (think 4am CEO calls and clawed-back commissions), explore what actually makes a program vulnerable, and learn why the structure and values of your affiliate strategy matter more than ever.

Whether you’re a CMO skeptical of the channel, or a marketer looking to strengthen your program, this episode pulls back the curtain with real talk and practical insight.

We get into how tiered bonuses can unlock more revenue, when to lower commissions, and what it takes to shift partners from passive to proactive. Sometimes a small change in how you reward partners can turn uninvolved, low-value affiliates into high-value partners vested in your brand mission & strategy.

Hosted by Keith Posehn, Dafra Sanou, and Liem Vuong

We also explore how brands can rethink how they reward partners - shifting from what's easiest to track to what truly drives impact. From integrating offline efforts and emerging partnerships, to reworking internal mindsets around affiliate marketing, we talk through what it takes to stay relevant and responsive in a fast-changing space.

And because we believe in walking our talk, we share a bit about the evolution of this podcast - where it's headed, and what you can expect in future episodes.

Thanks for tuning in!