In this episode of CharterFolk Chat, Jed Wallace sits down with Shannon Hodge, the new CEO of KIPP DC Public Schools, just one month into her new role. Shannon’s journey is a masterclass in preparation and purpose—from her early days as a guidance counselor in Indiana during the rollout of No Child Left Behind, to her work as an attorney at Hogan Lovells, to founding Kingsman Academy for DC’s most vulnerable students, and later uniting the city’s charter sector as the founding executive director of the DC Charter School Alliance.

Shannon offers a candid look at the realities of leadership, discussing the intentional, multi-year succession plan that prepared her to follow in the footsteps of legends like Susan Scheffler and Allison Fansler. She shares her strategy for leading in the "fishbowl" of KIPP DC, cutting through the noise to focus on the signals that matter most for students and families. The conversation also explores the future of "charterness," the vital importance of telling the multi-layered history of public education, and how to effectively engage newcomers in the fundamental mission of the charter school movement.

For anyone interested in leadership, succession, and the future of public education, this is an inspiring and deeply insightful discussion.

Alan reflects on his tenure leading San Diego Unified from 1998 to 2005, when he assembled an extraordinary team of "intellectual athletes" from non-traditional backgrounds to implement the Blueprint for Student Success. He shares hard-won lessons about why reforms succeeded instructionally but couldn't be sustained politically, and what that means for today's education reform movement.

The conversation tackles difficult questions the charter movement must confront: Why has growth stalled at 30-50% in many cities? How can the movement address accountability concerns more rigorously? What structural changes—like separating district operations from authorizing—could enable lasting reform? And how do leaders find the courage to withstand intense political opposition?

Alan and Jed explore emerging models in Indianapolis and Camden, the need for a "Seneca Convention moment" to reimagine public education, and how massive technological and economic disruptions create both opportunities and urgency for transformational change. Alan's closing message is both sobering and hopeful: maintain your integrity, maintain your confidence, and recognize that change never comes easy and always takes longer—but Normal Street is in store for great change.

This episode is essential listening for education leaders, charter school advocates, policymakers, and anyone committed to building a public education system that truly serves all children.

Guest: Alan Bersin, former Superintendent of San Diego Unified School District (1998-2005) and California Secretary of Education (2005-2007)

Host: Jed Wallace, CharterFolk

**In This Episode:**

• From 45% of Louisiana's failing schools to zero

• The "apostles creed" of New Orleans education reform

• Why governance matters more than we admit

• The courage gap in the charter movement

• What Indianapolis and other cities are learning

**Guests:**

Dana Peterson, Jerel Bryant, and Caroline Roemer—three leaders who've been on the ground in New Orleans for nearly two decades.

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**CharterFolk** brings you honest conversations about charter schools, education reform, and the people fighting for better outcomes for kids.

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With those five words, education reform pioneer Dr. Howard Fuller delivers a wake-up call to the charter school movement in this powerful Thanksgiving week conversation with host Jed Wallace.

Drawing a stark parallel to the overturning of Roe v. Wade, Fuller warns that charter school laws—despite decades of progress—could be eliminated through political change alone. But this isn't a message of despair. It's a call to action rooted in thankfulness, self-criticism, and an unflinching commitment to purpose over institutional arrangements.

Fuller, the former superintendent of Milwaukee Public Schools and a lifelong advocate for educational choice, brings his characteristic blend of intellectual rigor and moral clarity to urgent questions facing the movement today:

Have we lost the balance between freedom and accountability? In trying to prove charter schools are "public," did we adopt the very accountability measures we sought to escape? Are we taking for granted the hard-won victories of pioneers like Annette Polly Williams? And most critically: What price are we willing to pay to continue the struggle?

The conversation moves from policy to philosophy, from Milwaukee's funding battles to the lessons of Black abolitionists, from Greek tragedy to Frederick Douglass's timeless truth: "Without struggle, no progress."

Fuller doesn't shy away from the personal toll of advocacy, reflecting on Brandon Brown's experience in Indianapolis and asking each listener to confront an uncomfortable question: If you decide to wage struggle for social change, what price are you willing to pay? Balance? Comfort? Security? There's no formula for the answer, but there is a requirement for honesty.

Yet amid the challenges, Fuller offers a vision grounded in history and hope. He argues that studying the past—from Du Bois's "Black Reconstruction" to the forgotten role of Black abolitionists in financing John Brown's raid—isn't about relics. It's about understanding today through a broader prism, about making history alive in service of the present.

This is Fuller at his best: challenging, inspiring, and utterly committed to the belief that public education can be delivered through multiple systems, that parents deserve choice, and that educators deserve the freedom to create schools rooted in community self-determination.

Released during Thanksgiving week—exactly when conventional wisdom says not to release a podcast—this conversation embodies Fuller's own philosophy: be thankful for what we have, but never stop working to make it better. Because we're still alive. And because the struggle continues.

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:

• Why charter school laws could be eliminated (and what that means for the movement)

• The lost balance between freedom and accountability in charter schools

• Milwaukee's 21st century educational ecosystem built on 20th century rules

• The personal price of advocacy and what it demands from leaders

• Why studying history matters for today's educational battles

• The role of Black abolitionists in American history—and why it's been forgotten

• Frantz Fanon's challenge: every generation must discover its mission and either fulfill it or betray it

ABOUT DR. HOWARD FULLER:

Dr. Howard Fuller is a distinguished professor of education and founder of the Institute for the Transformation of Learning at Marquette University. As former superintendent of Milwaukee Public Schools and a lifelong advocate for educational choice and social justice, he has spent decades fighting for parent empowerment and community self-determination in education. His book "No Struggle, No Progress" captures his philosophy of educational reform and social change.

RESOURCES MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:

• "Wretched of the Earth" by Frantz Fanon

• "Force and Freedom" by Kellie Jones

• "Black Reconstruction" by W.E.B. Du Bois

• "Educational Blacks in the South, 1867 to 1935" by Jim Anderson

• Ted Kolderie's work on chartering and institutional frameworks

• Brandon Brown's previous Charterfolk Chat episode

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Charterfolk Chat brings you in-depth conversations with education leaders, reformers, and advocates who are working to transform American education. Hosted by Jed Wallace.

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Takeaways:

• The recent legislative session in Indiana was historic, achieving significant progress in funding equity for charter school students.
• Brandon Brown emphasized the importance of courage in advocacy, especially during challenging political climates.
• There is a need for clarity in messaging around charter schools, focusing on substance over superficial communication strategies.
• The Mind Trust's efforts demonstrate the power of coalition building in advancing educational reforms effectively over time.
• Courageous leadership has been pivotal in transforming public education, as evidenced by the successes achieved in Indianapolis.
• The political landscape is evolving, providing an opportunity for charter schools to align with Democratic values and gain broader support.

Charter School Hall of Fame inductee Chris Barbic joins host Jed for a candid conversation about his journey from a frustrated Teach for America teacher to one of the most influential leaders in charter education.

Chris opens up about the magical early days of founding YES Prep in Houston, where the team worked grueling hours but formed unbreakable bonds while serving kids. He shares honest reflections on his time leading Tennessee's Achievement School District, including the political challenges and the health wake-up call that changed his approach to leadership.

Now at City Fund, Chris is focused on supporting the next generation of education leaders. He explains why he believes the charter school movement is emerging from the "dark fog" of recent years and regaining its confidence—what he calls getting its "swagger" back.

In This Episode:

• The origin story behind Yes Prep and those intense founding years

• Why Chris had a heart attack at 44 and what it taught him about sustainable leadership

• The difference between being a "director" versus an "executive producer" in education

• How the charter sector is bouncing back stronger post-COVID

• The importance of maintaining humor and perspective in high-pressure work

• Chris's advice for emerging leaders in education

About Chris Barbic:

Chris Barbic is a Charter School Hall of Fame inductee and Partner at City Fund. He previously founded and led Yes Prep Public Schools in Houston and served as Superintendent of Tennessee's Achievement School District. He currently serves on multiple boards including Yes Prep and the Charter School Founders Library.

About CharterFolk Chat:

Authentic conversations with the leaders shaping public education. Jed explores the stories, strategies, and insights of charter school innovators working to expand educational opportunities for all students.

Subscribe to CharterFolk Chat wherever you listen to podcasts, and visit CharterFolk.org for more education leadership content.

Now nine months into her role, Starlee reflects on the chaos, urgency, and opportunity that define her first year. She shares honest insights on what’s working in red and blue states alike, why charter schools are seeing policy wins across the country, and how the movement needs to respond to misinformation, media bias, and old narratives that refuse to die.

The episode covers:

• The national momentum behind charter schools—and why we’re still “on the ascent”
• The implications of the looming St. Isidore Supreme Court case
• Washington’s shifting political winds and why the charter movement must show up with solutions, not just objections
• The urgent need for enrollment growth—and the structural barriers standing in the way
• Why state charter associations are stronger than ever—and how they must be central to advocacy success
• A call to embrace our political power unapologetically and use it strategically for kids

Starlee also shares what it was like to be in the Supreme Court chamber during oral arguments and gives a clear-eyed take on how the charter community must prepare for what comes next.

With wit, clarity, and conviction, this episode is a rallying cry for charter leaders everywhere to stay focused, get organized, and show up like winners—because, as Starlee says, “We are.”

As the discussion progresses, Hall articulates a sense of optimism amidst the challenges facing the charter school landscape. The conversation highlights the necessity for adaptability and innovation in response to evolving political and social climates. Hall reflects on the current advocacy climate, noting the importance of collaborative efforts among charter leaders and the need for a unified voice in support of educational reform. The episode culminates in a call to action for charter advocates to continue pushing for growth and excellence, especially in historically underserved communities, while also recognizing the value of diverse leadership within the movement. Through this rich dialogue, listeners are invited to consider both the achievements and the ongoing challenges of the charter school sector, reinforcing the notion that the journey toward educational equity is both complex and essential.

Organizations mentioned in this episode:

• Teach for America
• Chancellor Academies
• Broad Foundation
• Charter School Growth Fund
• True North

Some Takeaways:

• The Charter School Growth Fund has significantly expanded its scope, supporting over 180 networks and serving nearly 750,000 students across the country since its inception.
• Kevin Hall's extensive background in education, from teaching in Compton to leading philanthropic efforts, underscores the vital role of experienced advocates in the charter school movement.
• The conversation underscores the importance of collaboration between charter schools and traditional public education systems in fostering a conducive environment for educational innovation.
• Both speakers express optimism regarding the future of charter education, emphasizing the potential for growth and improvement in student outcomes amidst current challenges.
• The growth of charter schools is not merely about numbers; it is also about the quality of education provided and ensuring that diverse populations are effectively served.
• Advocacy and unity among charter school organizations are essential, as they collectively strive to create better educational opportunities for students and families.

Takeaways:

• The importance of choice in education, highlighting how parents should have options beyond traditional public schools, especially if their local schools do not meet their children's needs.
• Marlon Marshall recounts his educational journey and the influence of his mother's dedication as a public school teacher, shaping his views on educational reform and equity.
• The podcast explores the concept of the Delmar Divide in St. Louis, illustrating the stark contrast and systemic inequities in education based on geography and socio-economic status.
• Marlon and Jed advocate for building strong relationships within communities to foster a supportive network that can push for educational reform and improve school quality.
• The conversation touches upon the historical context of educational segregation and how it continues to affect current policies and practices in public education across the United States.
• Marshall and Wallace express hope for the future of charter schools, suggesting that if the movement can effectively advocate for access and quality, it may lead to systemic change in education.

Companies mentioned in this episode:

• City Fund
• ProPublica
• New York Times
• University of Kansas
• Lincoln University
• Charterfolk

The conversation further navigates the complexities of advocacy in the charter school movement, with Brenda advocating for a unified approach that emphasizes the importance of educational choice. She argues passionately that all families should have access to quality educational options, echoing a sentiment that transcends the boundaries of traditional public versus charter education debates. By fostering collaborations across the educational landscape, Brenda envisions a future where the achievements of charter schools contribute positively to the broader educational ecosystem, thereby ensuring that all students benefit from equitable learning opportunities. This episode not only serves as a testament to Brenda's leadership journey but also as an inspiration for continued advocacy within the charter school movement.

Takeaways:

• Brenda Cora emphasized the importance of internal leadership development to strengthen trust and continuity within the Noble community.
• The podcast highlighted Brenda's journey from student to CEO, showcasing the impact of educational opportunities on personal growth and community involvement.
• Jed Wallace and Brenda Cora discussed the significance of relationships and community support in navigating challenges within the charter school sector.
• Brenda articulated her vision of ensuring that every student at Noble receives a transformational education that mirrors her own experiences.
• The conversation addressed the critical role of advocacy for charter schools, emphasizing the need for collective efforts to support student success.
• Brenda's commitment to fostering diverse leadership within education was illustrated through her mentorship initiatives at Noble.

Organizations mentioned in this episode:

• Charterfolk
• Noble Schools
• Alliance Schools
• Wartburg College
• Equitas
• CCSA
• LEAL - Latino Educators Advancing Leadership
• INCS - Illinois Network of Charter Schools