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Chapters

00:00 Sports and Local Engagement

03:56 International City Management Association Insights

09:30 Expectations of Local Government

18:44 The Role of Technology in Local Governance

23:13 Navigating Civic Engagement and Emotional Appeals

25:13 The Complexity of Local Governance

28:35 Engaging the Next Generation of Managers

30:26 The Balance of Politics and Management

32:34 Compartmentalizing Personal Beliefs in Governance

36:34 The Future of Political Neutrality in Local Government

40:18 Maintaining Professional Standards Amidst Political Pressures

I brought that question to Christa Breum Amhøj, a Danish practitioner, researcher, and what I can only describe as a social architect because she reads a place the way a building architect reads a site. And to John Diamond, who sits in Manchester and has been watching the same tensions play out in the UK across decades of academic research, consultation, and engagement with emerging local government challenges. What follows is my attempt to trace the arc of what the three of us discovered together.

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Chapters

• 01:39 — Opening: Who Creates Value in a Community?
• 02:23 — Competing Definitions of Public Value
• 03:38 — Rethinking Value: The Aging Society Example
• 06:22 — Tourism, Resistance, and Local Control (Scotland Case)
• 08:51 — Visible vs. Invisible Value
• 11:11 — Micro-Experiments vs. Traditional Innovation
• 14:53 — Professional Expertise vs. Local Knowledge
• 19:43 — A Place Has Agency
• 21:00 — Learning to Observe and Map a Place
• 23:27 — From Problem-Solving to System-Based Thinking
• 24:42 — Case Study: Faxe Municipality (Denmark)
• 27:00 — Redesigning the Festival Through Community Input
• 28:30 — Outcomes: Relationships, Access, and New Pathways
• 32:49 — Why Process Matters More Than Outputs
• 34:00 — Access and Infrastructure: The Transport Example
• 37:45 — The COMPASS Model Overview
• 42:30 — Managing Tension and Conflict in Co-Creation
• 44:00 — Expanding the Definition of Prosperity
• 46:30 — The Role of the Facilitator in Place-Based Work
• 53:34 — Closing Reflections: Practice Over Theory

Keri (Miller) Kenepp, Director of Community and Economic Development for College Township, Pennsylvania, and Erin (Genest) Trone, Project Manager for BusinessPA at the Pennsylvania Department of Community & Economic Development, walk us through a maze of issues facing local governments today and grant us invaluable insights into how we can think about a future together.

This episode is made possible by a partnership with APMM, the Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management.

Be sure to subscribe to MuniSquare to get full content that includes all episodes of PCC Local Time and much, much more.

Chapters

00:00 – Who Shapes the Future of a Place? (Episode Setup)

02:00 – Keri’s Non-Traditional Path into Economic Development

05:00 – The Expansive Nature of Local Government Roles

07:00 – “Creating the Conditions” for Development

08:30 – The Long Game vs. Election Cycles

10:30 – What Elected Officials Want (and Need to Say in Public)

12:30 – Casinos: Public Resistance vs. Legal Reality

15:00 – Data Centers: Misunderstanding and Zoning Constraints

17:00 – “We Have to Allow for All Uses” (Policy Reality)

20:00 – The Power of Community Resistance (Nestlé Case)

22:00 – The Blighted Mall and Risk-Taking in Development

23:00 – Understanding the Private Sector (Erin’s State Role)

25:00 – Matchmaking: Communities and Companies

29:00 – The Facilitator Role Defined

31:00 – Advising Elected Officials (Pros, Cons, and Decisions)

33:00 – Tension: Standards vs. Development (Affordable Housing)

36:00 – Sidewalks as a Case Study in Equity and Safety

38:00 – Developer Perspective: Why Projects Don’t Pencil Out

40:00 – Blighted Properties and “Highest and Best Use”

43:00 – Redeveloping the Mall (Zoning Shifts and Density)

45:30 – Parking: Outdated Assumptions and New Thinking

49:00 – Changing Mindsets About Walkability

50:30 – What Keri Had to Unlearn About Economic Development

53:00 – Erin on Labor Shortages, AI, and Shifting Metrics

My three guests today, Jerry Andree, Toby Cordek, and Michael Foreman were invited to work with a group of engaged citizens in Millcreek Township, Erie County to shepard a community making its third attempt in fifteen years to restructure their local government.

Millcreek is one of the largest second-class townships in Pennsylvania with nearly 55,000 residents, a sophisticated range of services, and all the complexity that comes with governing a community that size. Yet for decades, it has been run by three elected supervisors who, at their first meeting after each election, appoint themselves as the township’s full-time municipal administrators. This does not provide for a separation of powers between the people who set policy and the people who carry it out and creates a vacuum in the continuity of services.

This episode is in many respects a rare master class in how to form a study commission and carry a recommendation through to the voters. But more importantly, it’s a frank, insider conversation about the dynamics behind the scenes, including the interviews, the resistance, the attacks, and what it takes to stay focused and transparent when the process gets hard.

This podcast episode has been created in partnership with APMM, the association for professional municipal managers to enhance learning, leadership development and networking.

Jerry Andree spent three decades as Township Manager of Cranberry Township in Butler County Pennsylvania and has been a steady presence in local government leadership across Pennsylvania. Even in retirement, he continues to teach, advise, and support communities working through complex challenges.

Toby Cordek served more than 35 years as Town Manager of McCandless in Allegheny County and has worked across nearly every aspect of local government. Today, he continues to mentor leaders and support municipalities through consulting and executive search work.

Michael Foreman brings over 30 years of experience with the Pennsylvania Department of Community and Economic Development, where he advised municipalities on policy, finance, and operations. He now continues that work as a consultant supporting local governments across the region.

Be sure to follow PCC Local Time on your favorite player and subscribe to MuniSquare.Substack.com for more in-depth content on local government.

🎧 Episode Timestamps

00:00 – Opening: Why this story matters

Nancy frames the rarity of structural change in local government and introduces Millcreek as a “third attempt” story with real stakes.

01:30 – Guest introductions

Jerry Andree, Toby Cordek, and Michael Foreman are introduced with their backgrounds and roles.

03:00 – What makes Millcreek different

Three-member board of supervisors acting as full-time administrators—an unusual structure for a township of this size.

05:30 – The core problem emerges

Lack of professional management; solicitor acting as de facto manager; growing complexity of the township.

07:45 – Why residents pushed for change

Blended roles (legislative, executive, administrative) and growing disconnect between governance and community expectations.

09:00 – Public access and transparency issues

Meeting times and structure raise questions about accessibility and responsiveness to residents.

10:30 – Clarifying the real issue

Not about removing elected officials—but clarifying roles and introducing professional management.

12:00 – How a study commission works

Michael walks through the legal process: ballot question, election, structure, and responsibilities.

15:00 – Inside the research process

Interviews with department heads, supervisors, and comparisons with other townships.

17:00 – Why council-manager emerged as the best fit

Separation of powers, stability, and professional administration.

19:00 – What the interviews revealed

Lack of continuity, shifting oversight, and absence of administrative expertise.

21:00 – A “vacuum of continuity”

Toby reflects on what was felt inside the organization—competence present, but no administrative anchor.

22:30 – Resistance from leadership

Supervisors not supportive; difficult environment for employees and interviews.

23:30 – The decision point: vote for change

Study commission evaluates options and moves toward a council-manager model.

27:00 – Voter approval and timeline to 2028

Final report, public hearing, and decisive vote; transition period begins.

28:00 – The “secret sauce” begins

Shift from structure to human dynamics—how the commission actually worked together.

29:00 – Building trust and momentum

Early meetings, “symbiosis,” and a nurturing leadership approach.

31:00 – Organizing the commission like a governing body

Committees form; members begin practicing how a council operates.

32:30 – Facing attacks and staying grounded

Public criticism, accusations, and the discipline to “keep the high ground.”

34:30 – Who were the commission members?

Diverse, accomplished residents who largely didn’t know each other before serving.

36:30 – What made the group effective

Patience, empathy, discipline—and a shared commitment to the community.

37:00 – Understanding resistance

Cultural, political, and financial incentives behind opposition to change.

39:30 – The work is not finished

Transition phase begins; questions about hiring a professional manager.

40:30 – The transition challenge

No formal roadmap after the vote; need for a transition committee and continued leadership.

42:00 – Administrative code and control

Who shapes the new system—and whether it enables or constrains the manager role.

45:00 – “Poison pills” to watch for

Risks in implementation: micromanagement, weak role definition, hiring decisions.

47:00 – Signs of early progress

Evening meetings added; continued civic engagement by commission members.

48:30 – One chance to get it right

Importance of early leadership and governance alignment.

49:00 – The first manager will be tested

Discussion of political pressure, expectations, and leadership resilience.

50:30 – What kind of leader is needed?

Experience, toughness, and ability to navigate conflict and culture change.

52:00 – Community support for change

Strong voter backing and desire for professional leadership.

53:00 – Closing reflections

“You only get one opportunity to do it right.”

54:00 – Final thoughts: democracy in action

Guests reflect on the meaning of the process and community engagement.

Host Brandon Ford and co-host Nancy Hess have a wide ranging conversation with Maggie that moves through the real experience of borough management: the math of running a full municipal government — police, public works, library, eleven miles of road — with fifteen people and a fraction of a township’s budget; the intimacy that makes boroughs special and the same intimacy that makes criticism land close to the heart; and the reality that wearing every hat in the building demands more knowledge, not less, than specializing in a larger organization.

Maggie is candid about walking into a community that had cycled through five managers in four years, what it took to steady that ship, and why her focus is on building standard operating procedures so the day-to-day can run itself. Along the way, the crew explores Narberth’s housing story — how a historically working-class rail town became the highest median sales price in Montgomery County — and what that shift means for a community once referred to as “Mayberry,” still sorting out who it is.

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“My job gets in the way of me doing my job.”

— Maggie Dobbs — on the borough manager’s capacity problem

“Your hats are wearing hats. It’s a lot.”

— Maggie Dobbs — on generalist demands in a small-staff borough

"If I had a campaign slogan, it would be policy and procedure. My big push has been standard operating procedures. I want to think less about the day-to-day. I want the day-to-day to essentially run itself because we've already figured it out. I don't want to have to answer questions I've answered again." — Maggie Dobbs, on her first-year management strategy

🔥 Hot Takes

Five Realities Before You Take the Seat

1. Your job will crowd out your job. Protect space for strategic work.
2. SOPs are not paperwork. They are oxygen.
3. Fill your blind spots early. Pride is expensive.
4. Proactive information reduces political friction.
5. Borough leadership is not smaller. It’s closer.

Timestamps

0:00 – Introducing Maggie and Narberth

1:18 – The “donut hole” geography inside Lower Merion

2:09 – Maggie’s path: NJ Dept. of Agriculture → Rutgers → Planning

3:30 – Montgomery County Planning Commission & contract planning model

5:49 – Writing four comprehensive plans; interviewing hundreds

8:12 – Planners as connectors in local government

9:36 – Being tapped for the manager role

10:01 – First-year lessons; “90% of the day is listening”

12:36 – Compliance vs. innovation — the Venn diagram problem

13:20 – Shared services with Lower Merion

17:45 – Joint traffic study collaboration

21:29 – Pennsylvania’s “nugget” borough system

24:02 – Borough vs. township — professional fit

27:08 – Narberth staffing reality (4 admin, 6 police, 5 public works)

30:00 – Affordable housing question

31:05 – Narberth’s housing transformation

36:10 – Generalist vs. specialist municipal structures

40:47 – SOPs, website overhaul, proactive communication

42:00 – Five managers in four years — rebuilding trust

44:34 – The lunch that changed her mind

49:57 – Finance gaps & building a support network

52:27 – Who thrives in borough leadership?

54:31 – Closing reflections

In today’s political climate, the employment relationship between elected officials and their chief administrative officer deserves a closer examination. What protections actually exist? Who advocates for the manager when circumstances shift?

In this episode of Generation on the Rise, Eden Ratliff and Dave Pribulka sit down with Brad Gotshall to explore what it means to become, in his words, a “free agent.” They examine contracts and severance, and they also confront questions of reputation, professional identity, and the personal weight of transitions that can be political, strategic, or simply inevitable.

MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

⏱️ Timestamps

1. 00:00 – Cold open, book banter, introductions
2. 04:30 – Brad’s background: elected official at 17 to professional manager
3. 09:30 – Transition to Warren County and “free agency”
4. 11:30 – Protecting yourself as a manager: personal and professional buckets
5. 13:30 – Contract negotiations: learning the hard way
6. 16:00 – Do managers need representation?
7. 19:00 – The loneliness of severance negotiations
8. 22:00 – Lower Paxton: no contract, negotiated exit
9. 26:00 – Recruiter’s role in negotiations
10. 31:00 – Severance pushback and board dynamics
11. 37:00 – Creative contract structures (Rehoboth example)
12. 39:30 – Should managers use agents?
13. 41:30 – Legal review vs. negotiation support
14. 43:00 – Preserving reputation under NDAs
15. 45:30 – Building a personal brand before crisis hits
16. 48:00 – No-fault divorce vs. political dismissal
17. 50:00 – Wrap-up and Part Two teaser

Contrasting generational perspectives and recognition of the vulnerability that comes with commitment and transitions make this episode a memorable one.

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“If everything is a crisis, nothing is.” - Eden

You have to have a little bit of self-confidence. I will find the place, I will find the role, I will find the journey. It's like the actor—the Broadway play closes, what do they do the next day? You need to have confidence that it will work itself out. - Jeffrey

"There is a lightness of being after you're gone that almost hits as you're walking out the door. That's when I realized how much pressure I'd been under. That feeling is quickly replaced by this feeling of not being a part of something bigger than yourself anymore. When that ends, especially if it ends abruptly, it's a hard realization to wake up one morning and your calendar is empty." - Dave

Hot Takes:

🔥Crisis has always been part of the job. The pressure isn’t new — the speed is.

🔥Not every issue deserves full emotional escalation.

🔥Fire Suppression ≠ Fire Prevention. Be proactive.

🔥 The communities you serve will continue without you—and that's okay.

🔥Leaving a community requires a grieving process, even when it's your choice to leave.

🔥The work is meaningful. Despite the pressure, leaders would not trade the experience.

Timestamps

00:00 - Cold open and greetings

03:47 - Welcome and introduction to Generation on the Rise

04:42 - Introducing first-time guest Jeffrey Stonehill

06:32 - Jeffrey’s career journey: From SUNY grad to 40-year manager

08:15 - The “crisis as normal” phenomenon in local government

11:45 - Why municipalities attract constant crisis

15:20 - The evolution of pressure: Then vs. now

19:30 - Harrisburg bankruptcy and advisory board experience

24:10 - The psychological toll of perpetual emergency management

28:45 - Learning to disconnect (or trying to)

33:20 - The loneliness of municipal management

37:50 - Why managers struggle to share burdens

42:15 - Transitioning between communities: The Disney tradition

45:40 - The grieving process when you leave a community

49:18 - Taking care of yourself and your family

50:05 - Despite everything: Why we love this profession

52:03 - Closing thoughts and next week’s preview

"We are all one elected official away from a hostile work environment.” - Dave

“Yeah, but if it gets that bad, why would you stay?" - Eden

Today on Generation on the Rise, what starts as tactical shop talk evolves into a revealing examination of professional isolation, with Dave pushing hard on systemic advocacy gaps while Eden counters with self-reliance pragmatism. By the end, they’re debating whether the profession’s recruitment crisis stems from lack of awareness or legitimate wariness about the job’s inherent instability.

“Labor relations are high risk, high reward. When it goes bad, it goes bad fast.” - Brandon

Hot Takes:

1. Generational dynamics within unions have shifted bargaining leverage.
2. Don’t wait until negotiation year to build trust.
3. Personnel management is on-the-job training, no matter your preparation.
4. Managers lack advocacy structures..
5. Geographic mobility is a professional survival skill, not a character flaw.
6. The profession needs better advocacy and mentorship structures.

Timestamps

1. 00:00 – Sustainability banter, ICMA programs
2. 03:00 – Topic launch: manager’s role in HR
3. 04:30 – Why personnel issues are hardest to prepare for
4. 06:00 – HR professionals vs textbook training
5. 08:30 – Generational workforce dynamics
6. 10:00 – Labor relations as high-risk / high-reward
7. 12:00 – Collective bargaining philosophy differences
8. 18:00 – “Sacrificing the unborn” and pension negotiations
9. 22:00 – Relationship building with unions outside negotiation years
10. 29:00 – Transparency and negotiating in public
11. 33:00 – The manager as an employee: who advocates for us?
12. 38:00 – Hostile work environment discussion
13. 44:00 – The limits of formal support structures
14. 50:00 – Informal networks and senior advisors
15. 53:00 – ICMA’s role: management vs manager debate
16. 55:00 – Closing reflections on the realities of the profession

Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess (Publisher of MuniSquare) and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To subscribe to this feed, receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

This is a great listen for anyone interested in the work of local government or just wants to understand how it really works. Be sure to leave your comments and questions for the crew to tackle in a future episode.

“Our job is to inform the process, respect the outcome, and then deliver with enthusiasm.” - Eden

“We took ‘leaf blower ban’ as a goal and did what staff does—we turned it into options, wrote the ordinance, and recommended a seasonal ban. The board said, ‘Thanks, but we want a full ban.’ And that’s democracy.” - Brandon

“Sometimes the textbook says, ‘The board sets policy, the manager administers.’ The real work is everything in between—the translation, the conflict, the opportunity costs.” - Dave

TIMESTAMPS:

00:00 – New Year banter & Y2K

03:30 – First-week-back routines & “Purge Day”

06:30 – Reorganization meetings as the “real” New Year

09:00 – Setting up the topic: managers and policy formation

10:00 – Textbook council–manager model vs reality

12:00 – How Eden reads and frames board policy priorities

13:30 – Who really sets the agenda? Chair vs manager

14:30 – Is capital equipment a policy question?

16:00 – Municipal vs nonprofit vs corporate boards

17:30 – Disagreeing with the board and processing it at home

21:00 – Culture, roles, and “no big emotions” about policy

24:00 – Translating decisions up and down the organization

28:00 – “Negotiation” vs expectations and culture

29:30 – When managers do and don’t make recommendations

33:00 – Budgets, tax policy, and whether a balanced budget is a recommendation

36:00 – Assistant manager perspective: one functional unit

38:00 – Preemption, home rule, and plastic-bag bans

44:00 – Inertia, backlash, and revisiting policy after it “marinates”

47:00 – What’s distinctive about the Generation on the Rise cohort?

48:00 – When operations are failing and the manager must force the policy conversation

49:00 – Closing reflections & takeaways

Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess (Publisher of MuniSquare) and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

MuniSquare is a reader-supported publication. To subscribe to this feed, receive new posts and support our work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.

Show Notes:

1. What does workplace loyalty mean in local government?
2. The connection (or disconnection) between loyalty and tenure
3. ICMA’s two-year standard and generational shifts in career mobility
4. Professionalism vs. loyalty: which matters more?
5. The heated residency debate: does living in your community change your recommendations?
6. Small town dynamics vs. larger municipalities
7. Looking ahead: Generation on the Rise adds guests in 2025!

Timestamps:

1. 00:00 - Cold open: ICMA’s two-year standard discussion
2. 01:00 - Holiday gift assembly war stories
3. 05:00 - Defining workplace loyalty in local government
4. 08:00 - The role of personal affinity in job selection
5. 11:00 - Measuring loyalty: what does it look like?
6. 15:00 - The two-year standard and its implications
7. 18:00 - Why managers move more frequently now
8. 22:00 - ICMA’s two-year standard revisited
9. 27:00 - Loyalty vs. professionalism in difficult decisions
10. 31:00 - The residency debate begins
11. 40:00 - Does living in your community affect recommendations?
12. 46:00 - Generational differences in mobility and commitment
13. 50:00 - Episode wrap-up and 2025 announcement

They dig into the tension between aspirational goals (the “why”) and cross-offable action steps (the “how”)—including how to avoid plans that sound inspiring but don’t translate into steps, owners, timelines, or resources.

Along the way, they compare planning approaches in large and small communities, debate when to use consultants vs. doing the work in-house, and talk honestly about what happens when boards turn over and want to toss the plan on the shelf.

Generation on the Rise is produced by Nancy Hess and features Eden Ratliff (Middletown Township Manager, Bucks County PA), Brandon Ford (Lower Merion Assistant Township Manager, Montgomery County PA, and Dave Pribulka (Bellefonte Borough Manager, Centre County PA)

Subscribe to MuniSquare on Substack and sign up for the Generation on the Rise feed.

Highlights

00:00 - Welcome & Year-End Check-In

00:01 - Episode Introduction: Strategic Planning

00:02 - Brandon's Love/Hate Relationship with Strategic Planning

00:03 - The Chicken or Egg Debate: Aspirational vs. Practical

00:04 - Dave Introduces "Cross-Offable" Action Steps

00:05 - The Comp Plan vs. Strategic Plan Hierarchy Debate

00:07 - Eden's Cascade Model: How Plans Connect

00:08 - Lower Merion's Annual Priorities Workshop Process

00:11 - Strategic Planning for Small Communities

00:15 - Dave: Small Communities Need It MORE

00:17 - Brandon's Reality Check: Need vs. Resources

00:18 - In-House vs. Hiring Consultants

00:20 - Dave on Pros and Cons of Each Approach

00:22 - Eden's Charlottesville Story: Third-Party Facilitation

00:24 - Most Memorable Planning Experiences

00:26 - Eden's 112-Person Strategic Team: "Planning Is Messy"

00:28 - Strategic Plans Cannot Replace Policy Process

00:30 - The Big Question: What When Boards Throw Out Your Plan?

00:31 - Defining AMI and ALICE (Housing Affordability Context)

00:34 - Dave: Sometimes Things Just Change

00:35 - "Failing to Plan Is Planning to Fail" - True or False?

00:37 - Emergency Planning Discussion

00:38 - Dave's Key Insight: Strategic Plans Give Managers "Cover"

00:40 - Final Wisdom: Planning for Communities of All Sizes

00:41 - Closing & Where to Listen

They explore how biases affect hiring practices and public policy formation, emphasizing the need for a culture of challenge and building perspective in leadership. The conversation also touches on the impact of confirmation bias and the necessity of engaging with voices from outside familiar turf to challenge the status quo.

Chapters

02:51 The Meaning Behind ‘Generation on the Rise’

12:06 Understanding Bias in Local Government

23:47 Bias in Hiring Processes and Practices

28:27 Navigating Education Choices in Suburban Life

29:41 Blind Reviews and Bias in Hiring

31:35 The Importance of Diverse Perspectives

33:17 Creating a Culture of Disagreement

35:01 Affinity Bias in Team Dynamics

37:47 The CAO and Assistant Relationship

42:54 Confirmation Bias in Municipal Management

54:58 The Impact of Experience on Management Bias

59:22 Bias in Public Policy Formation

Highlights include: why culture starts at the top (and why “first in, last out” can quietly poison a workplace), why “email jail” keeps people from fully unplugging, what it looks like to structure remote work without creating resentment, and a concrete example of a benefits move that actually supports families: a 12-week paid parental leave policy that includes birth, non-birth parents, adoption, and foster adoption.

“Work-life balance is not about time management. It’s about boundary management. You could always make the time work, but it’s those boundaries—setting those boundaries up.” - Brandon

They explore the essential roles needed in local government, the importance of dedicated HR departments, and the challenges of managing diverse personalities within teams. The conversation delves into the hiring process, community engagement in recruitment, and the dynamics of leadership, emphasizing the need for a balance between doers and thinkers.

TAKEAWAYS

• HR is crucial for understanding municipal dynamics.
• Community engagement is vital in the hiring process.
• The role of the police chief can significantly impact management.
• Home Rule Charters allow municipalities to create their own regulations.
• Public safety funding is often misallocated in municipalities.
• Dedicated HR departments can enhance employee wellness and education.
• Managing doers and thinkers requires different strategies.
• Building relationships with new leaders is essential for team cohesion.
• Internal service departments play a key role in supporting operations.
• The hiring process should focus on culture fit and qualifications.

In this episode, I talk with Brittany Forman, Manager of Media Borough in Delaware County, Pennsylvania, about what it takes to build — and preserve — a strong sense of place in a small community that has suddenly become a regional magnet.

Brittany walks us through Media’s evolution from a struggling commercial district in the 1990s to today’s walkable, lively, “everybody’s hometown,” complete with trolleys, a regional rail station, an energetic restaurant district, and a deep environmental ethic.

Listeners will hear a grounded, practical conversation about what local leaders can control, what they can influence, and what they simply need to adapt to as their communities change.

This episode is for municipal managers, planners, elected officials, and anyone wrestling with growth, affordability, and the tension between tourism appeal and local character.

CONTACT:

Brittany Forman

APMM

PCC Local Time on MuniSquare

SHOWNOTES

00:00–01:10 — Opening & Purpose

I introduce Brittany and set the stage: a conversation for municipal managers and elected leaders about transformation and sense of place.

01:10–04:00 — Brittany’s Path to Media

Her career in HUD, Norfolk, mayor’s office, planning, private-sector consulting — and how Media’s economic development plan brought her to the borough.

04:00–06:00 — Living and Working in the Same Community

Why Media feels like the right fit and what it's meant to be embedded in the place she serves.

06:00–08:30 — “Everybody’s Hometown” & The Trolley

We discuss Media’s iconic branding, its historic trolley system, and early investments that anchor identity.

08:30–11:00 — Media’s Built Form & Good Bones

Grid layout, transit access, mixed housing types, courthouse activity, and how the borough’s size (¾ sq mile) shapes everyday life.

11:00–13:30 — Media’s Recovery Story

The 1990s: crime, vacancies, and disrepair — and how Mayor McMahon and elected officials actively recruited businesses and built events that revived the town.

13:30–15:30 — A Full Calendar: 30+ Annual Street Closures

Brittany describes Dining Under the Stars, seasonal festivals, parades, and weekly programs that create social cohesion.

15:30–18:00 — Parks, Environmental Ethos & Regional Connectivity

Media’s strong environmental culture, parks investment, and the importance of looking to adjacent municipal assets.

18:00–21:00 — Housing Pressure & Becoming a “Victim of Success”

Demand outpacing supply, luxury units, price spikes, first million-dollar home, and concerns about seniors and young families.

21:00–23:30 — Media’s Affordable Housing Strategy

Vision: a place where residents can access housing at every stage of life.

Focus areas: households under $75k, seniors, zoning changes, office conversions.

23:30–26:00 — Preserving Character While Welcoming Growth

Placemaking investments (Plum Street Mall), creating “third places,” and designing for connection.

26:00–29:00 — How Leadership Creates or Loses Vision

What stalls progress, why leadership turnover matters, and how staff align everyday decisions with council priorities.

29:00–34:00 — Tourism vs. Residents: Balancing Tension

Events that serve locals vs. events that serve visitors, communication strategies, and maintaining a sense of “this is for us.”

34:00–38:00 — Is the Affordable Housing Plan Working?

Early wins, patience required, partnerships with developers, regional zoning comparisons, and home-sharing models.

38:00–41:30 — Municipal Innovation: Land, Authorities & Development Tools

What Media can and cannot do because of land constraints; examples from other communities; public-private development strategies.

41:30–End — Final Reflections & Closing Thoughts

Holding onto core values (“everybody’s hometown”) while allowing the community to evolve; gratitude and wrap-up.

Follow APMM on LinkedIn and Read more at APMM.net

In this episode of the APMM Series, produced in partnership with PCC Local Time, Nancy J. Hess and Dr. Martin Carcasson explore how local government leaders can shift from problem-solvers to systems builders. Together, they trace how small shifts in process — better questions, framing, and facilitation — can profoundly affect trust and decision-making in communities.

Dr. Martin Carcasson is a professor of Communication Studies at Colorado State University and the founding director of the Center for Public Deliberation (CPD) — a university-community partnership that helps local governments, school districts, and civic organizations improve how they talk about complex public issues.

Martin’s work draws from communication theory, social psychology, and systems thinking to design better public conversations about “wicked problems” — the issues that have no simple or permanent solutions.

He has collaborated extensively with the Kettering Foundation, the National Civic League, and the International City/County Management Association (ICMA), where he’s trained city managers and superintendents to act as deliberative systems leaders.

In his words:

“If city managers see themselves as systems leaders — deliberative systems leaders — their job is to get a sense of how this system works, and then figure out how to intervene in this system to improve it.”

More resources from Dr. Martin Carcasson:

CPD resources page and my youtube channel

🧭 Timestamps

00:00 – 02:20 — Opening: Why talk about conversations at all?

Martin distinguishes debate, deliberation, and dialogue.

“Debate, deliberation, and dialogue… each has strengths and weaknesses.”

02:20 – 05:10 — The Charlie Kirk example and what it reveals about campus “deliberative systems”

A live example of tough conversations and what universities can learn.

05:10 – 07:30 — Nancy introduces Paul Bloom’s “Against Empathy” and the need for reflection

“Am I being manipulated or am I being educated?” — Nancy

07:30 – 10:00 — Why conversation matters in local government

Nancy frames the skepticism many leaders have: “Do we really need all these meetings?”

Martin connects it to wicked problems and shared goals

“We prefer the simple story… but these issues require complexity.” — Martin

10:00 – 13:00 — Brain science and the limits of human nature

Why we resist nuance — and how public processes often make this worse.

13:00 – 16:40 — Pre-work matters: why tough conversations shouldn’t start “on the fly”

“Confidence becomes very powerful… often when it shouldn’t be.” — Martin

“For most of our meetings, we do a lot of pre-work.” — Martin

16:40 – 20:30 — How to gather opinions before the meeting

Surveys, individual conversations, Google Forms, and anonymous responses.

“I wouldn’t gather them and say, ‘What do you think?’ I’d want their perspectives first.” — Martin

20:30 – 24:00 — Making the most of face-to-face engagement

Meetings aren’t for collecting opinions — they’re for engaging people.

“What I need is for them to engage each other… develop mutual understanding.” — Martin

Martin Gallery

24:00 – 27:00 — Wicked problems and the danger of simple stories

“Our brains are wired for all the reasons I’m right and they’re wrong.” — Martin

“There are very few magic bullets — and very few villains.” — Martin

27:00 – 30:00 — The placemat: a powerful tool for productive discussion

One-page documents designed to spark conversation, not persuade.

“A document purposely designed to spark good conversation… is very rare.” — Martin

30:00 – 34:00 — Why facilitative leadership matters

Nancy describes shifting from consultant to facilitative consultant.

Martin explains why leaders struggle to facilitate their own meetings

“Being both the leader and the facilitator can be really tough.” — Ma

34:00 – End — The superpower of 21st-century leadership

“The superpower of 21st century leaders is the ability to bring people together across perspectives to get things done.” — Martin

A double header this week… be sure to check out the chat for this week’s show!

Subscribe to MuniSquare.Substack.com where you can find Generation on the Rise and PCC Local Time podcast episodes along with lots of other local government content!

⏱️ Show Notes

02:00 – 10:00 - What change management really looks like: buy-in, communication, and shifting expectations.

10:00 – 18:00 - Real-world examples: labor negotiations, labor dynamics, and the conditions that make change possible.

18:00 – 25:00 - External forces: AI, community pressure, and unexpected participation.

25:00 – 33:00 - Pacing and leadership: slowing down on purpose, avoiding rushed decisions, emotional intelligence.

33:00 – 42:00 - Trust, vulnerability, and the “blockbuster questions” that unlock better decisions.

42:00 – 44:00 - Wrap-up: reflections and close.

Check out more content like this and PCC Local Time at MuniSquare@Substack.com

In this episode on Sustainability, host Nancy Hess talks with three guests who are redefining what local sustainability looks like on the ground:

• Sara Gibson, Borough Manager, Camp Hill Borough, creator of Stormfest
• Bailey Rocco, Sustainability Coordinator, Pennsylvania Municipal League
• Kate Robeson Grubb, Sustainability Specialist, Solebury Township, and Penn State Distinguished Alumni Award recipient

They share how communities are translating mandates into meaningful local action—from stormwater festivals and inter-municipal cooperation to new sustainability certification programs and community engagement efforts.

SHOWNOTES:

00:00 – 02:00 | Introduction

Nancy opens with reflections on the meaning of sustainability and how local governments bring it to life.

Introduction of guests: Sara Gibson, Bailey Rocco, and Kate Robeson Grubb.

02:00 – 22:00 | Sara Gibson – From Compliance to Community: The Story of Stormfest

• Origins of Stormfest and the MS4 stormwater permit requirements
• Turning federal compliance into a community celebration
• Building partnerships among watershed groups, boroughs, and volunteers
• Educating elected officials and residents about stormwater systems
• “We all live downstream” — understanding local impact and interconnectivity
• Reflection on sustainability as intergovernmental collaboration and community awareness

23:00 – 45:00 | Bailey Rocco – Measuring What Matters: The Sustainable PA Program

• Bailey’s path from social work to sustainability
• How Sustainable PA helps municipalities benchmark and communicate their sustainability efforts
• Certification levels: Bronze through Platinum
• Challenges for small municipalities and the importance of partnerships with universities
• Regional collaboration and shared learning among municipalities
• Transparency, resident trust, and the power of visibility
• Future directions: energy use, inclusion tracking, and young professionals entering the field

46:00 – 1:11:00 | Kate Robeson Grubb – Building the Future Locally

• Kate’s journey into sustainability and local government
• Solebury Township’s Energy Transition Plan and Ready for 100 goals
• Partnerships with the Environmental Advisory Council and community volunteers
• Challenges: funding large projects and public education
• The link between sustainability and equity (affordable housing, inclusivity)
• Long-term planning vs. short-term wins (solar installations, single-use plastic ordinances)
• Clarifying misconceptions about sustainability and building local resilience
• Closing reflections: “Resilient communities outlast instability.”

1:11:00 – 1:12:00 | Closing

In this podcast series, local government's next generation sits down to talk about what's changing, what's hard, and why we believe it's worth doing. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff, and Executive Producer Nancy J. Hess as they find the new normal — not the one we’re used to, but the one we are here to create.

Welcome to Generation on the Rise!

Be sure to follow this podcast at MuniSquare

SHOW NOTES:

00:00 – Warm-up: Tampa and Leaf Blowers

02:30 – The “Middletown Budget Roadshow”

06:00 – Introducing the Topic: Networking & Mentorship

08:00 – The Brandon Factor

09:00 – Why Networking Matters

14:00 – The Golf Myth

17:00 – Bad Advice from Mentors

23:00 – The Shadow Side of Mentorship

28:00 – When to Leave the Nest

33:00 – The Manager–Assistant Dynamic

35:00 – Bulls in the China Shop

38:00 – Competing for the Same Job

41:00 – The Unwritten Map

44:00 – How to Actually Network

47:00 – Networking as an Introvert

50:00 – Following Up

55:00 – The Value of Small Conferences

58:00 – Closing Thoughts

In this podcast series, local government's next generation sits down to talk about what's changing, what's hard, and why we believe it's worth doing. Join hosts: Dave Pribulka, Brandon Ford, Eden Ratliff, and Executive Producer Nancy J. Hess as they find the new normal — not the one we’re used to, but the one we are here to create.

Welcome to Generation on the Rise!

Be sure to follow this podcast at MuniSquare

02:00 – Introductions

Dave introduces Generation on the Rise and hands the mic to each co-host.

• Eden describes his journey from Charlottesville back to Pennsylvania.
• Brandon introduces Lower Merion’s size and scope — “large and in charge.”
• Dave offers his own winding path through Ferguson, Susquehanna, and Bellefonte.
• Nancy explains MuniSquare’s purpose and her role as executive producer.

07:00 – Why We’re Doing This

Brandon explains that these conversations grew out of years of late-night conference chats. Eden adds that this podcast is simply a continuation of those friendships — but shared with others who need to hear it.

09:00 – Finding Purpose in Local Government

Eden reflects on his township’s “why” exercise and describes helping staff reconnect to purpose. “I care about people — the ones who live, work, and play in our community.”

11:00 – A New Generation’s Voice

Brandon speaks about reaching students and newcomers to the field. “Existing podcasts are mostly hosted by people already at the top of their careers. We want something real and relatable.”

14:30 – Nontraditional Paths

Brandon shares how he switched careers from teaching to management, encouraged by his wife and a Villanova MPA program. Eden and Dave discuss how few of them planned to become managers — “We all owe something to serendipity.”

18:00 – Learning from Mentors

Brandon gives credit to mentors like Ernie McNeely and Crandall Jones, calling them “deep puddles” of wisdom. Dave riffs on that: “We stand on the shoulders of giants — or at least knee-deep puddles.”

22:00 – The Gap Between School and Reality

Nancy observes that an MPA doesn’t teach how to be a manager — “You learn that in the trenches.” The group discusses what academia misses about local government.

24:00 – Change and Sacred Cows

Dave and Nancy recall their first encounter when Dave challenged a speaker’s generalizations about millennials. Eden expands with his story of uncovering municipal fraud and rebuilding trust — “When there’s massive fraud, there are no sacred cows.”

28:00 – Lessons in Reinvention

The group reflects on how the profession has evolved: new technologies, new expectations, and a new kind of leader — one who blends professionalism with authenticity.

30:00 – Closing Thoughts

Dave sums it up: “If we’ve seen farther, it’s because we’ve stood on the shoulders of giants — and maybe leaned on each other along the way.”

Our guests — borough managers from three Pennsylvania university towns — reflect on how they navigate both the tension and potential that arise when generations, lifestyles, and values intersect.

From housing and community safety to student engagement and communication, they share real-world stories about how small towns are cultivating vibrant, intergenerational communities where students, residents, and local leaders learn to see each other as partners.

Guests

Nicole Sipos — Borough Manager, Indiana Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Indiana University of Pennsylvania)

• A proud graduate of Indiana University of Pennsylvania (IUP), she holds a degree in Business and has dedicated over two decades to public service within her hometown. Nichole was appointed Borough Manager in January 2023. She oversees a $12 million annual budget and leads strategic initiatives to support community development, infrastructure, and intergovernmental collaboration.
• A lifelong resident of Indiana Borough and a strong advocate for the region, Nichole’s deep ties to both the community and IUP have been instrumental in fostering strong partnerships and transparent communication. One of her most notable recent accomplishments includes managing a $4.1 million renovation of the Borough’s Municipal Building.

Rebecca DeSantis Randall — Borough Manager, Millersville Borough, Pennsylvania (Home of Millersville University)

• Rebecca graduated from Washington College in Chestertown, Maryland, earning a bachelor’s degree in international studies. She went on to receive her Master of Public Administration (MPA) degree from American University in Washington DC. She began her public service career with the International City/County Management Association (ICMA) on both the communications team and then on the career and equity advancement team as a program manager. Following ICMA, Rebecca transitioned to the City of Frederick, Maryland to serve as the City’s first Manager of Equity and Inclusion and a member of the Mayor’s Executive Leadership Team. Currently, Rebecca serves at the Borough Manager in Millersville Borough, PA, managing a community of 8,000 residents.

Jessica Whitley — Assistant to the Borough Manager, State College, Pennsylvania (Home of Pennsylvania State University)

• Jess is a public administrative professional with interest in program design, community engagement, youth advocacy and arts & culture, she is currently serving as the assistant to the Borough Manager in State College, Pennsylvania. Jess holds a 'Bachelor of Fine Arts' and a 'Master of Public Administration' from Syracuse University. A proud member of ICMA since 2022, Jess was a recipient of the prestigious Tranter Leong Fellowship in 2024 and began her journey at the Borough as a Local Government Management Fellow. Jess remains an active member of the SheLeadsGov Committee and the LGMF Alumni Committee. Grateful for the opportunities that have shaped her career, Jess remains deeply committed to serving the public and positively impact others.

Follow APMM on LinkedIn and Read more at APMM.net

Episode Timeline

00:00 – Introduction: The Spirit of Town and Gown

Nancy introduces the episode and the Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management (APMM). She frames Town Gown communities as partnerships where universities and local governments collaborate to build places people want to live, work, and belong.

02:00 – Opening Reflections: Student Events as Bridges

Rebecca begins with the Millersville parade — a shared celebration of students and residents. Nicole and Jessica describe similar traditions in Indiana Borough and State College, where collaboration builds connection and civic pride.

06:00 – Balancing Generations in Millersville

Rebecca reflects on the diversity of Millersville — retirees, young families, students, and faculty — and how their values sometimes clash around housing, parks, and growth.

09:00 – Housing, Growth, and Community Values

Nancy links the conversation to broader demographic shifts and the difficulty of attracting young families. Rebecca, Nicole, and Jessica explore housing shortages, zoning revisions, and ways to make their towns livable for all ages.

12:00 – Creating a Sense of Place

Nicole and Jessica emphasize how communication, walkability, and vibrancy define community life — and how student engagement fuels local economies and neighborhood vitality.

13:00 – Technology, Service, and Communication

Rebecca describes updating borough systems to improve resident experience — from online payments to student interactions. Nicole and Jessica share how “Coffee with Comms” and “Coffee with Cops” build trust and transparency across generations.

17:00 – Public Events, Free Speech, and Local Tensions

Nicole shares how Indiana Borough navigates controversial event requests and community pushback while protecting free speech. The group discusses the growing challenge of balancing expression, safety, and community standards.

21:00 – Crisis Management and Shared Responsibility

Rebecca recalls a recent swatting incident during a university parade, describing how collaboration between campus and borough emergency teams ensured consistent communication. Nancy and guests highlight the need for shared safety planning between town and university.

26:00 – Pathways to Public Service: Jessica’s Story

Jessica shares her journey from Syracuse to State College through ICMA’s Local Government Management Fellowship, and how the term “Town Gown” took on new meaning once she began working in local government.

29:00 – Engaging Students in Local Government

Jessica envisions programs where students participate in real municipal processes — from running community dialogues to serving on committees — helping both students and residents understand their shared civic power.

33:00 – Partnerships in Action: Faculty, Students, and Boroughs

Nicole describes how IUP graduate students’ sidewalk mapping project led to a $480,000 grant. Rebecca shares Millersville’s “Day of Caring,” where freshmen volunteer locally and learn what a borough is.

36:00 – The Deeper Role of Local Government

Nancy reflects on how the essence of local government — to engage, educate, and connect — remains the same whether or not a college is present. Town Gown communities simply make that role more visible.

37:00 – What Universities Gain from Collaboration

Rebecca and Nicole discuss how universities benefit from safe, livable, and attractive communities that help recruit and retain students. Jessica adds that engaged students become stronger citizens and future leaders.

41:00 – Keeping Students After Graduation

Nicole and Rebecca wrestle with how to make their towns appealing to graduates in their 20s and 30s, from amenities to affordable housing. Jessica highlights how partnership and place-shaping can inspire them to stay.

42:00 – Why Local Government Matters More Than Ever

Jessica offers a heartfelt closing reflection: when the world feels overwhelming, you can still make a difference locally. Rebecca and Nicole echo that change is most visible — and meaningful — at the local level.

44:00 – Closing and Connection

Nancy thanks the guests and closes with a reflection on mutual benefit, leadership, and partnership. The episode ends with a spontaneous moment of recognition between Jessica and Rebecca over the ICMA fellowship program.

discussioin Podcast, colleagues dive into Paul Bloom’s provocative book Against Empathy. Bloom argues that emotional empathy can mislead us, create bias, and open us to manipulation. Instead, he proposes cultivating rational compassion.

Our panel wrestles with the book’s claims—exploring empathy’s role in public service, the ethics of neutrality, manipulation of emotions in politics, and whether empathy can help us navigate today’s polarized climate.

Dr. Tom Bryer is Pegasus professor in the School of Public Administration at the University of Central Florida, 

Dr. Mike Rowe is Senior Lecturer in Public Sector Management at University of Liverpool, UK

Matt Candland is manager of South Boston, Virginia

Dr. Mandie Cantlin is manager at East Bradford Township, Pennsylvania

Key Chapters & Timestamps

• [00:00] Introduction
• Overview of Paul Bloom’s book and the central question: is empathy always good, or can it lead us astray?
• [00:03] Tom’s Opening Challenge
• Emotional empathy vs. cognitive empathy; empathy’s unintended consequences in society
• [00:05] Matt’s Critique
• The “degree of empathy” and the need for moral grounding; empathy tethered to worldviews
• [00:06] Mike’s Perspective
• Empathy doesn’t always lead to action; questioning the head/heart divide
• [00:10] Mandie on Public vs. Private Roles
• How empathy differs when acting as an individual versus as a public servant
• [00:14] Politics, Torture, and the War on Terror
• Examples of how empathy is tethered and manipulated in high-stakes decision making
• [00:17] Manipulation of Emotions
• Willie Horton case, political campaigns, and the spotlight effect in policymaking
• [00:21] Empathy, Charity, and Bias
• Fundraising appeals and the effectiveness (and risks) of emotional storytelling
• [00:27] History as a Lens
• Carlisle Indian School as an example of empathy tethered to destructive cultural values
• [00:31] Rationality vs. Emotionality
• Debating whether reason and empathy can truly be separated
• [00:32] Empathy in Leadership
• Emotional intelligence, authenticity, and shifting trends in public leadership
• [00:33] Political Violence and Empathy
• Reflections on the shooting of Charlie Kirk, empathy’s role in both violence and reconciliation
• [00:39] Closing Reflections
• Final verdicts: qualified support for empathy but with cautions on its limits

🗝️ Topics include:

• Housing pressures in boroughs and suburbs
• Workforce shifts and millennial recruitment
• Succession planning and structural reorganization
• Potential and limits of social media
• Zoning reform and housing affordability
• MS4 compliance burdens
• Shared services and regional collaboration

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APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

Episode Timestamps

00:00 – Housing issues in Lansdale

05:00 – Workforce changes and generational transitions

08:30 – Collective bargaining and staff retention

11:00 – Succession planning and restructuring

13:00 – Using social media in recruitment

17:00 – Affordable housing and zoning tensions

21:00 – Accessory dwelling units and density

24:00 – Transit access and economic concerns

25:30 – Fiscal cliff and revenue diversification

28:30 – Public utilities and privatization

30:00 – MS4 mandates and funding responsibilities

32:00 – Magic wand ideas for civic education and communication

37:00 – Shared staffing and municipal collaboration

40:00 – Cross-community learning and rural leadership

42:30 – Closing reflections

Contact info:

Greg Primm

Kirsten Denne

Seth Abrams

APMM - Association of Pennsylvania Municipal Management

Pioneering Change Community Newsletter

Key Topics:

• The erosion of professional advisory roles and ethical challenges when elected officials disregard legal codes.
• Legislation by social media" and the pressure for instant responses to public complaints
• Generational workforce challenges and the struggle to retain talent in an era of work-life balance expectations
• The impact of social media on decision-making and public expectations
• Balancing short-term political pressures with long-term municipal planning needs
• Regional cooperation strategies and emergency services challenges

Timestamps

00:00:00 - Greg's on professional standards erosion

00:03:30 - Kristen on "legislation by social media" concept

00:04:30 - Seth on zoning decision-making challenges

00:07:30 - Communication and social media strategy discussion

00:11:30 - Kristen - workforce and generational challenges

00:14:00 - Nancy asks about adapting work for younger employees

00:19:30 - Seth on staffing and resource constraints

00:22:00 - Nancy transitions to relationships with elected officials

00:29:00 - Magic wand section begins

00:35:30 - Nancy wraps up magic wand ideas

00:36:00 - Final thoughts and parting words begin

00:38:00 - Greg raises EMS crisis concerns

00:39:30 - Nancy introduces regionalization topic

00:44:00 - Positive ending with recruitment discussion

00:45:00 - Closing remarks and wrap-up

Themes: local government communication, community trust, short video strategy, AI for municipalities, civic engagement, human-centered leadership, government tech, authentic messaging.

SHOW NOTES:

Mike Baumwoll on LinkedIn

Rep'd Website

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Key Ideas

[00:00–02:00] Short Video Engagement: Local government videos show 70–80% completion rates, signaling residents prefer concise, authentic messages over long emails.

Core Lesson: Authenticity matters more than production quality.

[02:00–06:00] Building Relationships at Conferences: Trust in government tech starts with handshakes and real conversations. That’s how Rep’d connects with towns like Mount Jackson, VA.

[06:00–09:00]AI Readiness in Local Government: Mike describes three groups:

• Early adopters
• Hesitant or anxious
• Curious but cautious majority
• AI must be practical and easy to use to gain traction.

[09:00–12:00]Leadership Through Communication: Speaking clearly is a leadership skill. Residents don’t want perfect—they want real.

[12:00–17:00]Mike’s Background: From Lafayette College to Twitter, his career journey trained him in marketing, brand messaging, and client relationships. Entrepreneurship runs deep.

[17:00–20:00]Lessons from Twitter: The best communication meets people where they already are, taps into existing conversations, and feels organic—not forced.

[20:00–24:00]Crisis Communication: Whether it’s a flood, explosion, or school emergency, people need fast, clear updates from local officials—preferably via video, right on the homepage.

[24:00–27:00]Why Local Matters: Residents want to trust the people running their communities. It starts with knowing who they are.

[27:00–30:00]Coaching for Reluctant Speakers: Rep’d provides AI-generated scripts, teleprompters, and support to make recording simple—even for the nervous or tech-shy.

[30:00–32:00]Video as an Internal Leadership Tool: Skills gained through external communication translate to better internal communication and cohesion.

[32:00–35:00]From Twitter to Goverment: Mike didn’t imagine he’d end up in local government tech—but now he doesn’t want to be anywhere else.

[35:00–37:00]Advice for Entrepreneurs: Building for local government is different. You must care deeply and build trust first. It’s people work.

[37:00–End] Future of AI in Government: The entrepreneurial spotlight is shifting to government and AI. The investment is growing—but trust and simplicity must remain central.

In this episode Nancy Hess and Mike Rowe from the University of Liverpool explore James C. Scott's groundbreaking book "Seeing Like a State" and its powerful implications for local government.

Discover how governments make society "legible" through mapping and regulation, why top-down planning often fails, and how everyday acts of resistance shape our communities. From Brasília's utopian architecture to contract farming's unintended consequences, this conversation reveals how Scott's insights help us understand everything from zoning disputes to the hidden knowledge that really keeps organizations running. Essential listening for anyone working in public administration, urban planning, or community development.

SHOW NOTES:

00:00 - 03:00 - Introduction and Context

Nancy introduces the episode structure and Scott's four key concepts; Mike explains discovering Scott's work at the intersection of public administration and anthropology

03:00 - 07:00 - Everyday Forms of Resistance

Explainer on hidden resistance in daily life; discussion of Indonesian flood management and animistic land practices

07:00 - 11:00 - From Job Descriptions to Legibility

Nancy's organizational development experience; Mike's story about the two women who "really ran" the university; introduction to legibility concept

11:00 - 16:00 - Legibility and Simplification

Explainer on cadastral mapping and forest management; immigration policy as example of complex simplification

16:00 - 20:00 - Planning and Local Knowledge

Discussion of urban sprawl, high-speed rail planning challenges, and Colin Ward's anarchist architecture

20:00 - 24:00 - Cadastral Mapping and Zoning

Historical context of land mapping for taxation; modern parallels in small business and cash economy

24:00 - 30:00 - High Modernism and Brasília

Explainer on Le Corbusier's influence; the story of Brasília's construction workers creating thriving informal settlements

30:00 - 36:00 - Agricultural Simplification

Contract farming as modern example; loss of generational farming knowledge; comparison to contracting out government services

36:00 - 42:00 - Local Government Applications

Lancaster County agriculture, mushroom farms vs. new developments, building on floodplains; practical advice for policy-making

42:00 - 43:00 - Conclusion

Reflections on Scott's political reception and continuing relevance

In this session, four past presidents of APMM open up about what it means to lead while legacy still shapes the norms. With humor, honesty, and insight, they share lessons on mentorship, advocacy, fitting in (or not), and what happens when you finally stop shrinking to fit.

This episode offers inspiration and strategy for anyone navigating leadership, from seasoned professionals to those just beginning the climb.

Guest Introductions:

Joining us for this episode are four respected leaders in Pennsylvania municipal management:

Amanda Serock is manager of Concord Township, Delaware County, Pennsylvania. She teaches at Villa Nova University, from where she received her MPA and began her career in local government in 2005. She is an advocate for leaders coming up in the field.

Stephanie Teoli Kuhls has worked in municipal government for over 34 years, most recently serving as Township Manager in Middletown Township, Bucks County. She began her career in 1991, received her MPA from PennStaate and now teaches at Villanova University, where she continues her passion for mentoring emerging leaders in the field.

Amy Farkas is the Township Manager of Patton Township in Centre County and previously served for 17 years in Harris Township. She began her career in local government in 1997, received her MPA from Penn State and has been an active member of APMM since 2005.

Stephanie Mason is the longtime Township Manager of Doylestown Township in Bucks County, where she has served for 38 years, including 25 as manager. She received her MPA from University of Pittsburth and served as APMM's president in 2011 and 2012, she also represented the region on the ICMA Executive Board.

SHOW NOTES

00:00–02:00 | Framing the Conversation

02:00–04:00 | Breaking Into APMM Leadership

04:00–07:00 | What It’s Really Like to Be APMM President

07:00–09:30 | Reform from Within

09:30–12:00 | Professional Advocacy in a Biased System

12:00–15:00 | The Invisible Problems

15:00–17:30 | Claiming Space and Leading with Confidence

17:30–20:00 | How to Get Involved (Even if You're Not Ready for a Committee)

20:00–23:00 | Mentoring and Pushing Others to Lead

23:00–26:00 | Don’t Make Yourself Small

This candid, collegial, and at times gritty conversation is a wake-up call to local leaders—and a call to action for the next generation.

This is part of the 2025 APMM Series. Follow this podcast on your player to catch the next episode!

Quotes:

  📍 A question that needs to be asked across the Commonwealth is, at its core, what is the role of local government? Almost all of us would probably agree. It's not really just to. Pave roads plow and, help take care of trash. As Dave said, the government of a right.

What do our constituents expect of us? These municipal codes that say what we can and can't do are oftentimes tying our hands, so I think there needs to be a conversation about what is the future of municipal government and how can laws be modified. - Eden Ratliff

  📍 We just had a general session on ethics, and there were some really good hypotheticals that were introduced.

And I think we as a cohort can generally agree on the responses to some of those hypotheticals. But I'll tell you, as somebody speaking from personal experience when you're in them, it's a different ballgame. It's much more difficult to stick to the script and answer that way. - Dave Pribulka

  📍 The problem in Pennsylvania is unlike all of the other employee groups, we don't really have anyone representing us. If we think it's PML, you're kidding yourself.

That's not a knock on PML. But if you think about who they represent the elected officials. They don't represent the managers. When the two align, they'll certainly back up. Just understand who they are really working for and who pays their bills. - Matt Candland

  📍 If I had a magic wand, and I'm gonna, I'm just here offend all of you one way or another, but one of the change what I think would be one of the best ways to help the management profession in Pennsylvania is consolidation. - Matt Candland

  📍 I think the reality is if you can manage here in Pennsylvania, you can manage anywhere. This is a state where the manager is a Jack or Jane of all trades and a master of none. You get so much exposure to the direct work we do as local government officials that when you go to a community out of state where that might be delegated or you have a staff that can handle that you can speak with exactitude about how you approached, the situation. - Dave Pribulka

  📍 It's really hard to do big things in the Commonwealth. But a bunch of little things do lead to big things. And all of you are doing that in your communities. - Eden Ratliff

CONNECT

APMM - Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Management

David Kratzer, Session Facilitator

Dave Pribulka, Guest

Eden Ratliff, Guest

Matt Candland, Guest

Nancy J Hess, Podcast Host

⏱️ Timeline of Key Topics

00:00–02:00 | Opening Framing

A moment of generational reckoning for the profession: “We are it.”

02:00–03:30 | The Fragmented Landscape of PA Government

Why regionalization is nearly impossible and progress starts from scratch.

03:30–05:00 | What’s the Role of Government Today?

Rethinking the function and purpose of municipal government.

05:00–07:00 | Structural Gridlock and the Union Mentality

How entrenched systems and union dynamics limit bold leadership.

07:00–10:00 | The Employment Contract Problem

The 2-year contract limit, job insecurity, and lack of manager protections.

10:00–12:30 | Who Advocates for Managers?

PML’s misalignment and APMM’s limited capacity for lobbying.

12:30–14:30 | Can We Attract Talent to PA?

Hard truths about why managers leave—and what other states do better.

14:30–17:00 | Should APMM Advocate?

A shift in perspective: neutrality vs. self-protection and representation.

17:00–19:30 | Advice for Exporting Your Career

Overcoming Pennsylvania’s “timid manager” syndrome when applying out-of-state.

19:30–23:30 | The Two-Year Contract in Practice

A cautionary tale and call for legislative reform.

23:30–26:30 | Brick Wall Politics & Systemic Inertia

Why the system works exactly as intended to suppress reform.

26:30–28:00 | Framing Reform in Terms of Money

Fiscal cliffs may do what logic hasn’t—prompt change.

28:00–30:00 | Final Question: How Do You Keep the Spark Alive?

Personal reflections on finding meaning in tough conditions.

We are going to chat about the upcoming APMM conference in Lancaster, Pennsylvania – Monday, May 19th – Wednesday May 21st. This year’s theme is Find Your Spark and it is chock full of sessions and opportunities to connect.

APMM is the Association in Pennsylvania to network and learn with other municipal managers and this year they will be joined by managers from Delaware!

So check out the links to the APMM conference page and listen in to find out how to get your Spark in Lancaster with APMM!

For more information on the conference: https://www.apmm.net/annual-conference-information.

Host: of PCC Local Time - Nancy J.Hess

Dan Santoro, Township Manager, Cranberry Township, PA

Sara Gibson, Borough Manager, Camp Hill, PA

In our conversation, we cover:

• The growing complexity of public expectations and the rise of instant communication in the digital age.

• Navigating governance challenges, from polarization to the need for greater professionalization in local government.

• The competition for talent and what it means for the future of the profession.

• And finally the need to Advocate for statutory protections and employment agreements to ensure stability and address leadership volatility.

Whether you’re a municipal manager, elected official, or someone curious about the dynamics of local governance, this episode offers valuable insights on leadership, adaptability, and the profession’s future.

APMM AND GUEST INFO

APMM Website (Upcoming Executive Conference Info)

APMM LinkedIN

**

Tom Fountaine

David Kratzer Jr

George Needles

SHOW NOTES

Duration of Employment Agreements (Starting: [00:00:00])

• "The limitation in the statute that doesn't allow local municipalities to make their own decisions about that issue is not a good statute...those decisions should be made by local governing bodies." - Tom

Increased Interaction with Elected Officials (Starting: [00:03:00])

• "I probably spend more time today working directly with elected officials, communicating with elected officials, attending meetings with elected officials...than I did when I started in this career." - Tom

Impact of Polarization and Social Media (Starting: [00:04:00])

• "The polarization of the world has really made this work much different than it used to be 20 or 30 years ago." - Tom

Evolving Public Expectations (Starting: [00:07:00])

• "People consume communication so many different ways now that there is an expectation that we can deliver in their way that they can consume and we can deliver that very quickly." - George

Faster Information Flow (Starting: [00:09:00])

• "With quicker access to information...it puts more importance on making sure that those charged with governance, the elected officials, are aware of that information before it becomes generally available." - Dave

The Competition for Talent (Starting: [00:12:00])

• "Competition for talent...is not only a function of competition within the sector but also other opportunities that may present for those that have functioned well in this position." - Dave

Standardization Challenges in Pennsylvania Governance (Starting: [00:16:00])

• "We operate under codes, right? But we're not highly standardized...No two [local governments] are similar." - George

Governance Fragmentation and Managerial Transitions (Starting: [00:19:00])

• "The fragmentation of local government in Pennsylvania makes it very complicated...Every square inch of the state is incorporated." - Tom

Cultural Dynamics of Elected Bodies (Starting: [00:23:00])

• "Communities have cultures that develop over time...Elected officials and groups that historically maybe have worked well together are always one election away from having a dramatic change." - Tom

Learning to Fail Publicly (Starting: [00:51:00])

• "Being able to fail publicly and get up and say, you know what, dust it off and let’s keep moving forward...is what’s going to create good governance." - George

The Role of Municipal Managers (Starting: [00:40:00])

• "The manager...is truly functioning as the chief executive officer of the municipality and has a leadership role in the community to implement the policies...established by the elected officials." - Tom

Advocacy for Professional Stability (Starting: [00:32:00])

• "We’ve gotten to a point where we need to revisit duration...and have that duration reflect some of the volatility and some of the commitment that we’re making as professionals to the communities that we serve." - Dave

Importance of Onboarding and Education for Elected Officials (Starting: [00:41:00])

• "We’ve done a significant deep dive orientation for newly elected officials...It helps enormously in orienting new elected officials." - Tom

Impact of Contract Management Legislation (Starting: [00:48:00])

• "City management is about people and about the leadership that people bring to those communities...Having a manager in a community is really critical to help with the professional side of things in a non-partisan, unbiased manner." - Tom

Necessity of Leadership and Adaptability (Starting: [00:52:00])

• "As we talk about the meaningful work that we do and the value that we bring to communities...perhaps we’re a little bit more out there in terms of some of the advocacy for self that needs to occur." - Dave

Nancy Hess, Host of PCC Local Time

GUEST INFO

Lou Hayes , Jr. (LinkedIn)

• The Illinois Model

Gary Wong (LinkedIn)

• Welcome to My Brain

IDEAS/ RESOURCES MENTIONS IN SHOW:

John Boyds OODA Loop

 Dr. Gary Klein's work on recognition, prime decision making

A Leader’s Framework for Decisionmaking (HBR Article co-authored by Dave Snowden)

KEY IDEAS/QUOTES

[00:09:00] Adaptive Thinking in Policing

Lou emphasizes the need for adaptive thinking in policing, focusing on reframing problems, understanding complex dynamics, and utilizing frameworks like the OODA loop to navigate evolving situations.

Quotes:

• Lou: "In policing, you rarely encounter situations that fit into neat, predefined boxes. You need tools and frameworks that adapt in real-time to the chaos around you."
• Gary: "The transition from seeing things as 'either-or' to 'both-and' opens up creative, novel solutions that weren't initially apparent."

[00:18:00]The Role of Storytelling and Emotional Intelligence

Storytelling and emotional intelligence are highlighted as critical tools for decision-making, team building, and understanding diverse perspectives in policing.

Quotes:

• Lou: "Storytelling builds a bank of experiences we can draw from, helping us navigate new and complex situations with confidence."
• Gary: "Emotional intelligence isn't just about managing emotions but also about fostering environments where diverse perspectives come together effectively."

[00:33:00]The Intersection of Policy and Complexity

Lou and Gary discuss the limitations of rigid, policy-driven approaches in addressing complex policing scenarios. They advocate for more flexible policies that acknowledge and adapt to complexity.

Quotes:

• Lou: "Policies need to balance structure with flexibility, allowing officers to navigate both ordered and chaotic situations effectively."
• Gary: "The challenge isn't micromanagement; it's misapplied micromanagement in contexts where creativity and flexibility are required."

BIO

Yaron Prywes is a coaching psychologist, executive coach, and educator known for his innovative, visual approach to coaching. His work on visual action plans has been published in The Philosophy of Coaching: An International Journal, and he is currently authoring The Visual Coaching Handbook, which features a collection of creative, field-tested techniques. Yaron has led research on the outcomes of coaching and leadership development initiatives and previously taught Executive Coaching at Columbia University, where he supervised new coaches as they worked with live clients for the first time.

CONNECT

LINKEDIN

SHOWNOTES

[00:00:00] Introduction and Background

• Nancy introduces Yaron, sharing the story of how they met and his dedication to coaching.

[00:03:21] Yaron’s First Experience with Coaching

• Yaron recounts his first encounter with a career coach and how it set him on his path to coaching.

[00:04:53] Sports Coaching and Workplace Coaching

• The parallels between sports coaching and executive coaching, focusing on performance adjustments.

[00:06:50] Whole-Person Coaching

• Yaron explains the importance of seeing clients as whole individuals and how personal and professional challenges intersect.

[00:08:37] Common Scenarios for Coaching in Organizations

• Typical contexts in which coaching is introduced, particularly in public sector organizations.

[00:09:24] Case Study: Hard-Charging Leader

• A story about coaching a CFO with black-and-white thinking and the importance of diplomacy.

[00:12:40] Team Workshops Using the NBI Tool

• Yaron describes the Neethling Brain Instrument (NBI) and how it helps teams understand communication styles.

[00:17:54] 360-Degree Feedback for Leaders

• The value of 360 feedback in developing leaders and creating self-awareness.

[00:22:40] Building Agency and Accountability in Teams

• Coaching to empower teams to take ownership of challenges and build accountability.

[00:29:33] Dealing with Workplace Conflict

• A case study on resolving conflict in a utilities department through coaching and team-building exercises.

[00:32:55] Transformative Conversations and Trust

• How sharing personal highs and lows can transform team dynamics and build trust.

[00:36:44] Leadership’s Role in Creating Safe Spaces

• The importance of leaders creating safe environments to surface and address issues before they escalate.

[00:39:32] The Structure of a Coaching Engagement

• Yaron outlines the typical phases of coaching: discovery, planning, and execution.

[00:42:19] Coaching as a Hero’s Journey

• Yaron explains the metaphor of coaching clients as protagonists on a hero’s journey, navigating challenges and growth.

[00:46:26] The Importance of Self-Awareness in Leadership

• Nancy and Yaron discuss how self-awareness helps leaders identify their strengths and weaknesses.

Learn more about Larry's career from the Villanova University website HERE [Excerpt below]

Larry Comunale completed a 42-year career in municipal management in 2016 when he retired as the Township Manager of Lower Gwynedd Township in April of 2016. During his career, he was the manager in three municipalities: East Stroudsburg Borough; Newtown Township (Delaware County); and Lower Gwynedd Township. Larry has been an Adjunct Faculty member in Villanova’s MPA Program since 2004 and is also an Adjunct Faculty member at Delaware Valley University in the Master of Public Policy (MPP) Program. He has served as Executive Director of the Montgomery County Association of Township Officials (MCATO). Larry is a past President of the Pennsylvania Municipal Managers Association and received the President’s Leadership Award from the Pennsylvania State Association of Township Supervisors (PSATS) in 2006. He has a Bachelor’s degree in Political Science and a Master’s of Public Administration degree from Penn State University.

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Connect with Association for Pennsylvania Municpal Management on LinkedIn

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

[00:00:00] Introduction to Larry Comunale and His Career

• Overview of Larry's career, his leadership roles, and his approach to municipal management.

[00:01:10] Early Career Challenges in Municipal Management

• Larry discusses transitioning from an engineer-focused management style to a generalist approach that emphasized human relations and labor relations.

[00:05:00] Evolving Perspectives on Labor Relations

• Larry reflects on his confrontational approach to union negotiations early in his career and how he shifted toward a more conciliatory and trust-based strategy.

[00:10:44] Transparency and Accessibility in Budgeting

• Larry emphasizes the importance of creating understandable budgets and using them as tools for community engagement.

[00:15:30] Navigating Relationships with Elected Officials

• Insights on maintaining open communication while setting boundaries between board members and municipal staff.

[00:22:00] Recruitment and Retention Challenges in Local Government

• Discussion on the shrinking pool of qualified candidates and the complexities of relocating for municipal roles.

[00:30:00] Community Cohesion and the Manager’s Role

• Larry highlights the importance of managers actively participating in community events to build trust and rapport.

[00:39:00] Building Productive Conversations and Relationships

• Strategies for managers to foster productive dialogues with residents and stakeholders, even on contentious issues.

[00:47:00] Addressing Community Diversity and Housing

• Challenges of promoting affordable housing and fostering diversity in affluent communities.

[00:58:00] The Role of Local Government in Community Health

• Larry shares the story of Roseto, Pennsylvania, as an example of how community cohesiveness can directly impact public health.

[01:01:00] Closing Reflections on a Career in Local Government

• Larry and Nancy reflect on the richness of municipal management as a career and its impact on community well-being.

On today's show, we welcome Sara Gibson, Borough Manager at Camp Hill Borough, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and Scott Hutt, Assistant Manager of Hatfield Township in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Though the size and structure of the governments they manage differ, they both bring a wealth of knowledge about the core elements of effective onboarding. 

Today we talk about the importance of patience and open communication, a structured onboarding process that also encourages mentorship and an ongoing need to balance change while preserving the core values of local government.

We hope you enjoy!

SHOW NOTES

Follow Sara Gibson on LinkedIn

Sara Gibson has served as Manager of Camp Hill Borough for the past three years, driving progress on strategic initiatives like pedestrian connectivity, zoning updates, sewage and stormwater planning, and downtown development. Under her leadership, the Borough adopted a Climate Action Plan in 2023 through the DEP Local Climate Action program. Sara has championed environmental efforts, including the innovative StormFest public outreach event and the establishment of a Sustainability Committee. Camp Hill also participates in Bee City USA, Tree City USA, Bird Town Pennsylvania, and SolSmart programs, with Sara and her team securing grants and technical assistance to bolster these initiatives.

Follow Scott Hutt on LinkedIn

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter to receive updates about the community and this podcast HERE

EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS

[00:01:10] Importance of Board Transitions in Shaping Organizational Life

• Sara reflects on her first experiences with board transitions and the challenges of being a professional manager.

[00:05:07] Onboarding New Board Members

• Scott shares his first experience with onboarding and the importance of structured, effective processes.

[00:06:21] Structuring the Onboarding Process

• Detailed explanation of onboarding approaches, including educational seminars with consultants and department heads.

[00:07:45] Building Personal Connections with Board Members

• Sara emphasizes the significance of developing personal connections and understanding board members' backgrounds.

[00:10:44] Quality Interactions Between Board Members and Staff

• Discussion on fostering trust and ensuring productive interactions through community events and informal gatherings.

[00:12:45] Setting Boundaries and Roles for Effective Governance

• Scott elaborates on defining roles and staying in lanes for efficient operations and collaboration.

[00:17:30] Community Events and Relationship Building

• Sara and Scott discuss the role of community events in creating stronger bonds among board members, staff, and the public.

[00:23:00] Navigating Difficult Transitions and Conflicts

• Nancy and Scott explore managing transitions when new board members have conflicting visions.

[00:26:48] Facilitating Dialogue and Building Common Ground

• Strategies for finding common ground and bridging divides among board members.

[00:30:00] Professionalism and Maintaining Boundaries

• Sara emphasizes the balance between personal connections and maintaining professional integrity.

[00:34:00] Vulnerabilities of Managers During Board Transitions

• Discussion on why board transitions can lead to manager turnover and strategies for navigating these periods.

[00:40:27] Preparing for and Embracing Change

• Advice for managers on embracing change and viewing transitions as opportunities.

[00:44:55] Final Reflections and Advice for New Managers

• Sara and Scott offer insights and advice for new managers facing upcoming board transitions.

One of my best thought partners on the topic of AI is Joe Mench, Assistant Manager at Muhlenberg Township in Berks County Pennsylvania. He is truly boots on the ground at the local government level and this conversation is a starting point for thinking about AI today in our organizations.

We delve into the practical applications of AI for local governments, discussing both the opportunities and challenges. Joe Mench shares his insights on how AI can enhance municipal operations, from improving customer service to predictive analytics for public safety. The conversation highlights the importance of ethical use, transparency, and developing internal policies to guide AI's responsible implementation. The episode also touches on the future of AI in areas such as public works and organizational learning, stressing the need for clear guidelines and cautious optimism. It’s a must-listen for local government leaders interested in leveraging AI to improve services while being mindful of ethical considerations and community trust.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

Connect with Joe Mench on LinkedIn

Muhlenberg Township, Berks County, Pennsylvania

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:00] Introduction to AI Tools and Optimism

Joe encourages trying out AI tools before forming an opinion. He emphasizes that AI is a powerful tool that’s not as intimidating or omnipotent as some perceive.

[00:09:53] Practical Use Cases of AI in Local Government

Discussion on AI applications such as customer service improvements, predictive analytics for infrastructure, and operational efficiencies (e.g., waste management, public safety).

[00:13:07] AI in Law Enforcement for Body Cam Analysis

The use of AI to review body cam footage for good policing practices, improving morale by highlighting positive behavior, and potentially identifying areas for officer development.

[00:16:21] AI as a Tool for Organizational Learning

AI's potential to build internal knowledge libraries for custom learning and professional development within local governments.

[00:18:38] The Concept of AI as an Executive Assistant

How AI can act like an executive assistant, offering data-driven suggestions to facilitate decision-making, while still requiring human validation for accuracy.

[00:20:07] Building AI Chatbots for Resident Interaction

Development of AI chatbots to provide better and more responsive service to residents, moving beyond keyword recognition to more natural, interactive conversations.

[00:28:38] Vendor Accountability and Policy Development

Key considerations when implementing AI solutions, such as asking vendors critical questions about data security and transparency, as well as forming responsible AI policies.

[00:39:00] Addressing Ethical Considerations and Transparency

Conversations about ethical implications, such as ensuring fairness, addressing the digital divide, and maintaining transparency with citizens on data usage.

[00:46:39] AI’s Role in Public Works and Infrastructure

AI applications in monitoring and planning infrastructure needs (e.g., road maintenance, leaf collection), optimizing operational efficiency in public works.

In this episode, Emily Crookston explains why even experienced writers might hire a ghostwriter. She shares how ghostwriting is not just about putting words on paper; it’s about collaboration, shaping ideas, and helping clients clearly communicate their expertise. Whether you’re thinking about writing a book, creating LinkedIn content, or simply sharing your knowledge in any format, this episode will show you how a ghostwriter can bring your ideas to life and make the process less overwhelming.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

BIO

Emily Crookston is a best-selling business book ghostwriter, author, and developmental editor. She specializes in helping entrepreneurs and consultants build their businesses by writing a book that sells. As the Owner of The Pocket PhD, she and her team create and execute pre-launch strategies for self-published business book authors to align your thought leadership content, increase your sphere of influence, and prime your audience for the book. Her first book, Unwritten: The Thought Leader’s Guide to Not Overthinking Your Business Book, launches on October 1, 2024.

Emily is also a former philosophy professor, speaker, and podcast guest. When she’s not writing intensely, she’s most likely practicing yoga intensely. She lives for desserts topped with *real* whipped cream.

Find Emily on LinkedIN

Check out Emily's book, UNWRITTEN

TIMESTAMPS

[00:03:33] Why Hire a Ghostwriter?

[00:04:10] The Role of a Ghostwriter in Shaping Ideas

[00:06:00] Collaborative Writing and Developmental Editing

[00:06:47] The Importance of Audience and Translation of Expertise

[00:07:14] The Process of Ghostwriting

[00:09:21] Publishing Options and Self-Publishing

[00:18:33] The Rising Role of Books in Professional Branding

[00:19:48] Writing for Different Formats

[00:27:42] Why Some People Struggle with Writing

[00:29:19] Final Tips on the Writing Process

Crandall is currently the Chief Administrative Officer at Upper Darby Township in Delaware County Pennsylvania. He previously served as CAO in Norristown, Pennsylvania in Montgomery County. In addition to serving as an adjunct at Villanova University, he serves on the Board of the APPM.

This episode is particularly valuable for those considering a career in city management or a new opportunity in the field of local government.

The APMM series highlights the many layers and aspects of local government work. Be sure to check out the links to APMM and visit us at the upcoming ICMA conference in Pittsburgh!

SHOW NOTES

Follow Crandall Jones on LinkedIn

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter to receive updates about the community and this podcast HERE

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:00] Introduction and Crandall’s Background

• Nancy introduces Crandall and the focus of the episode on his career in city management.

[00:01:51] The Unique Arc of a City Management Career

• Crandall discusses how each city management career is unique and shaped by personal choices and challenges.

[00:04:00] Early Inspiration in Political Science

• Crandall shares how a high school political science course sparked his interest in local government.

[00:07:01] Lessons from Savannah: The Importance of Planning

• Crandall reflects on his time in Savannah, where he learned the value of big-picture thinking and community engagement.

[00:13:15] Transition to City Management

• Crandall talks about his move from economic development to city management and the challenges he faced.

[00:19:38] The Role of Mentorship

• Crandall emphasizes the importance of mentorship in his career and how it helped shape his path in city management.

[00:26:10] Navigating Race-related Issues

• Crandall discusses his experiences managing in diverse communities and the challenges of navigating race-related issues.

[00:34:09] The Importance of Building Strong Teams

• Crandall shares insights on the importance of team building and leadership in local government.

[00:43:12] Strategic Planning and Community Health

• Discussion on the need for strategic planning in addressing long-term community health and infrastructure issues.

[00:52:03] Making Career Transitions

• Crandall reflects on his decision to transition to new opportunities and the factors that influence such decisions.

Rick offers unique insights into the critical transition from volunteer to career fire departments, focusing on the importance of strategic planning, leadership, and effective communication.

Many municipal managers will tell you this is one of the greatest challenges facing local government today. Rick gives us an excellent understanding of why that is and how municipalities can respond.

This episode has tons of takeaways for fire service professionals, municipal managers, elected officials, and people like you and me who depend on fire services!

SHOWNOTES:

Manheim Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

TIMESTAMPS:

[00:00:00] Introduction and Overview

• Introduction to the episode and Rick Kane’s background.

[00:01:33] Historical Context of Volunteer Fire Services

• Rick discusses the historical context of volunteer fire services and their deep-rooted independence.

[00:04:00] Transition from Volunteer to Career Fire Service

• Challenges and considerations when transitioning from a volunteer to a career fire service.

[00:09:40] Importance of Communication Between Municipal Managers and Fire Chiefs

• Rick emphasizes the need for open communication between municipal managers and fire chiefs.

[00:15:20] Financial Implications of Fire Service Transitions

• Discussion on the financial costs associated with transitioning to a career fire service and maintaining it.

[00:21:00] Establishing Benchmarks and Standards

• The role of benchmarks and standards in fire services, including NFPA standards and ISO ratings.

[00:26:10] The Strategic Planning Process

• Rick shares insights on the strategic planning process for merging volunteer departments into a municipal fire service.

[00:31:00] The Role of Leadership in Fire Services

• How leadership plays a critical role in managing the transition and maintaining service quality.

[00:37:10] The Future of Fire Services

• Rick discusses the future challenges and opportunities in fire services.

[00:46:50] Moving from Fire Chief to Municipal Manager

• Rick reflects on his transition from fire chief to municipal manager and the lessons learned.

This episode is a fascinating inside look at how a rural community that becomes a suburban one transitions from a volunteer to a full-time career fire service that includes volunteer fire.

Robert Pellegrino and Adam Selisker share their journey, highlighting the importance of trust, community engagement, and strategic leadership. From addressing funding challenges to building a resilient fire service, this episode offers valuable insights for municipal leaders and emergency service professionals. Discover how effective collaboration can transform community safety and resilience.

SHOWNOTES:

Visit Northampton Township website

Connect with Adam M. Selisker on LinkedIn

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

TIMESTAMPS:

[00:00:00] Introduction and Background

• Nancy introduces the topic and the guests.

[00:01:22] Transitioning from Volunteer to Career Fire Service

• Robert and Adam discuss the initial challenges and steps in transitioning from a volunteer to a career fire service.

[00:04:34] Building a Working Relationship

• The importance of building a good working relationship between the Township Manager and the Fire Chief.
• How Robert and Adam established their working relationship.

[00:06:18] Addressing Funding and Manpower Issues

• Discussion on the funding challenges and solutions, including the federal SAFER grant.
• How they addressed the shortage of volunteers.

[00:08:06] Community Engagement

• Strategies for engaging the community and communicating the need for a paid fire service.
• Examples of successful community engagement efforts.

[00:13:14] Leadership and Trust

• The importance of mutual trust and support between the Township Manager and the Fire Chief.
• Advice for other managers and fire chiefs on building trust.

[00:17:55] Challenges and Solutions

• Ongoing challenges in maintaining a mix of volunteer and career firefighters.
• How they adapted and evolved their strategies over time.

[00:24:30] Impact on the Community

• Positive outcomes of the transition to a career fire service.
• Personal anecdotes highlighting the impact on community safety and resilience.

ADDITIONAL RESOURCE NOTES:

1933 ACT 69 SECOND CLASS TOWNSHIP CODE OF PENNSYLVANIA

SECTION 607. DUTIES OF SUPERVISORS.--THE BOARD OF SUPERVISORS SHALL:

(1) BE CHARGED WITH THE GENERAL GOVERNANCE OF THE TOWNSHIP AND THE EXECUTION OF LEGISLATIVE, EXECUTIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS IN ORDER TO ENSURE SOUND FISCAL MANAGEMENT AND TO SECURE THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE OF THE CITIZENS OF THE TOWNSHIP.

We talk about Bert's research and how he has progressed his thinking from the early days in the fire service and studies in public health to his later career in leadership and studies in public management. In particular, we talk about leadership-team dynamics and what creates the environment in which trust enables teams to make good decisions in a crisis.

If you are interested in topics like this, sign up for our Friday newsletter to find out what we are up to.

SHOWNOTES

Connect with Bert Brugghemans on LinkedIN

Research Links:

The process of decision-making in a fast burning crisis situation: a multiple sequence approach of decisiveness

The Collapse of Sensemaking in Organizations: The Mann Gulch Disaster

Young Men and Fire

How does Leadership Manage Network-Level Tensions in a Turbulent Environment? A Case Study on the Antwerp Fire Service Network Leadership during the COVID-19 Pandemic

TIMESTAMPS

[00:04:36] Transition from Order to Chaos

[00:08:07] The Unique Role of Fire Services

[00:13:24] Collaborative Leadership

[00:24:31] Decision-Making Research

[00:43:00] Trust and Team Cohesion

[00:45:14] Network Management

[00:49:50] Public Awareness and Investment

Our guests today offer us a glimpse of how labor relations in your municipality can help or hinder your efforts as a manager, and significantly impact your workplace. What is unique about labor relations is that you can only really come to it through experience. No amount of study or expertise will make you good at it. You must develop a practice and an approach or style that is both authentic and appropriate for your situation.

Stephanie Teoli-Kuhls is the manager of Middletown Township in Bucks County Pennsylvania, and Sandra Zadell is the manager at Upper Gwynedd Township in Montgomery County. Both are seasoned managers and adjuncts at Villa Nova University, and as you will learn, Sandra was mentored by Stephanie. So they have a special connection that brings this episode to life.

This conversation offers a wealth of insights for managers looking to foster a collaborative and productive work environment.

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

Connect on LinkedIn:

APMM

Stephanie Teoli-Kuhls

Sandra Zadell

Nancy Hess

SHOW NOTES:

[00:02:17] Signs of a Good Negotiation

• A good negotiation leaves both sides feeling neutral, without clear winners or losers.

[00:03:31] Components of a Good Relationship

• Mutual respect, open communication, engagement, and consistency.
• Importance of resolving issues proactively before they escalate.

[00:08:46] Impact on Workplace and Services

• How labor relations affect the delivery of services and workplace morale.
• The significance of fostering a collaborative culture.

[00:13:31] Engaging Unions Outside Negotiations

• Building individual relationships with union members and understanding their perspectives.
• Examples of engaging union leadership in discussions about major changes.

[00:22:08] Manager at the Negotiation Table

• Pros and cons of having the manager lead negotiations versus bringing in a professional negotiator.
• Balancing advice from labor attorneys with what is best for the organization.

[00:29:46] Top Advice for First-Time Negotiators

• Being prepared by understanding the negotiation landscape and anticipating issues.
• Being patient and trusting the process.
• Understanding that a good negotiation is one where neither side feels like they won or lost.

[00:34:50] Challenges for New Managers

• Experiences of gender bias and how it can affect negotiations.
• Importance of having supportive colleagues and mentors.

[00:43:18] Questions for Colleagues

• Balancing labor attorney advice with what is best for the organization.
• Learning from both successful and challenging negotiation experiences.

Peter brings a perspective that helps us untangle some of the ideas related to climate action and sustainability, and he shares practical steps and success stories that show how local governments can make a real impact.

Climate change isn't just a global issue; it hits home in our neighborhoods, affecting everything from air quality to stormwater management. But local governments face the challenge of building awareness and converting policy to action.

Peter brings great energy to this conversation as he shares his experience with initiatives that are changing the course of our future.

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

GUEST BIO:

Dr. Peter Buck is a sustainability and climate change professional, public servant, and educator. He co-directs the Local Climate Action Program and is the Associate Director of Climate and Sustainability Education at Penn State Sustainability. Buck has communicated widely on sustainability, education, leadership, and democracy in The Washington Post, Citizens Democracy Works, on the TEDx stage, and in peer-reviewed journals and books. Buck commits himself to leadership and service, serving as an elected official in municipal and school district government, appointed service for climate planning at the local and state level, and in educational and

Connect with Peter HERE on LinkedIn

SHOW NOTES:

[Scroll down for links to resources mentioned in episode.]

Today we explore the impact of climate change on community health and local government actions.

Timestamps:

[00:02:40] Background and Personal Journey

• Peter's early interest in the controversy over teaching evolution and its link to climate science.
• His transition to focusing on climate action due to the real-world impacts on health and safety.

[00:08:17] Local Climate Action Program

• Overview of the program at Penn State.
• Partnership with local governments and students to conduct greenhouse gas inventories and develop climate action plans.
• Examples of different municipalities and their unique challenges and opportunities.

[00:14:55] Challenges and Opportunities in Local Government

• Variations in municipal capacities and readiness to tackle climate issues.
• Importance of regional cooperation for effective climate action.
• Encouraging educational initiatives to promote community engagement and understanding.

[00:18:21] Policy and Infrastructure

• The role of policy windows in creating opportunities for change.
• Integrating climate action into comprehensive plans and municipal budgets.
• Examples of successful initiatives, like the LEED Gold-certified public works facility in Ferguson Township.

[00:24:12] Community Engagement

• Strategies to engage and educate communities about climate impacts and actions.
• Importance of transparency and communication in building community support.
• Leveraging crises as opportunities to advance climate action agendas.

[00:37:15] Future Directions

• Importance of ongoing education and adaptation.
• Encouraging municipalities to start with small steps and build on successes.
• Availability of resources and support from organizations like Penn State, DEP, and ICLEI.

LINKS TO RESOURCES MENTIONED IN EPISODE:

Pennsylvania Municipal League Sustainable PA Conference Fall 2024

Allegheny Connect

Sustainable Pittsburgh

Local Governments for Sustainability

Urban Sustainability Directors Network

Penn State Students are helping Pennsylvania Communities

Ben Estell is manager of Dormont Borough outside of Pittsburgh in Allegheny County Pennsylvania and R.J. Susko is Planning and Development Director in the Town of McCandless in Allegheny County.

In this episode, RJ and Ben discuss the crucial role zoning and community planning play in enhancing community health.

RJ and Ben highlight the paths to their current roles and emphasize the human impact of zoning decisions. They explore topics such as transparency, public engagement, and the challenges of implementing zoning changes that balance community needs and environmental considerations. The conversation underscores the importance of proactive planning and the iterative nature of zoning regulations to foster resilient and thriving communities.

If you like your comprehensive planning to be entertaining and even a little sexy, you have come to the right place.

This episode is part of our 2024 APMM series. APMM is dedicated to the promotion of professional and effective local government management in Pennsylvania.

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Guest Bios

RJ Susko serves as the Planning and Development Director for the Town of McCandless, Allegheny County, PA. Ms. Susko holds a Master of Public Administration Urban Affairs and Planning concentration, from the University of Pittsburgh Graduate School of Public and International Affairs (GSPIA), and a B.S. in Public Health from the University of Massachusetts Amherst. A lifelong asker of “how does that work?”, Ms. Susko has been active in the municipal management world for several years, focusing on process improvement, change management, and right-sizing regulations to empower communities to reach their full potential.

Most recently in her current role as Planning and Development Director at the Town of McCandless, RJ has overseen the Town’s first wholesale zoning update in the last 50 years, involving a complete re-write and restructuring of the McCandless land use and development codes.

Benjamin Ryan Estell serves as Manager for the Borough of Dormont in Allegheny County, PA. Ben holds a Master of Business Administration (MBA) from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a B.A. in French language and Culture from The Ohio State University. He received his ICMA certification in 2015.

Has led numerous impactful projects, such as the Potomac Avenue Design and Reconstruction, an award-winning storm water management project, and a 5-Year Strategic Planning Process, which has involved significant public input and research. Most recently led a comprehensive zoning rewrite that brought Form-Based Code and Transit Oriented Development into the Pittsburgh suburbs and created the transformational catalyst for a truly welcoming community.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00 - 05:07]: Introduction and RJ's background in community development.

[05:08 - 10:18]: Ben's childhood experience with a hazardous waste incinerator and its influence on his career.

[10:19 - 15:00]: Discussion on transparency in zoning and public access to information.

[15:01 - 20:10]: Historical context of zoning and its impact on different communities.

[20:11 - 25:00]: Challenges in current zoning, including parking minimums and density issues.

[25:01 - 30:15]: RJ's practical example of implementing a chicken ordinance.

[30:16 - 35:00]: Ben's explanation of Dormont's unique zoning approach.

[35:01 - 40:00]: Importance of ongoing community engagement in planning processes.

[40:01 - 45:00]: Human aspect of zoning and its effect on community health and livability.

[45:01 - 51:00]: Long-term impact of zoning changes and the necessity of iterative design.

In this episode we talk about how the leadership framework is changing within emergency services. Some of the topics we cover include pressure on ambulance crews to meet performance targets, and how this impacts their ability to provide care, cultural challenges inside fire services, and lessons on leadership from crisis situations.

This episode is part of the Across the Pond Series that we began in 2023 with Professor John Diamond. We have so much to learn with our colleagues across the pond and they in turn have an interest in learning with us.

GUEST BIO

Paresh Wankhade FAcSS, FRSA, FCMI is a Professor of Leadership and Management at Edge Hill University Business School, UK. He is the Editor-In-Chief of International Journal of Emergency Services. His research and publications focus on analyses of strategic leadership, organisational culture, organisational change and interoperability within the public services with a focus on emergency services. Paresh has published in major journals including Work, Employment and Society, International Journal of Management Reviews, Public Management Review, Regional Studies, Public Money and Management and International Journal of Public Sector Management along with several monographs on the leadership and governance aspects in the emergency services.

MOST RECENT BOOK: Emergency Services Management: A Research Overview

Profile with List of Research

LinkedIn Profile

SHOW NOTES

[05:00] Emergent Leadership in Crisis Situations

Paresh explains how leadership can emerge from unexpected situations, using examples like the Chilean miners and the Thai cave rescue. He emphasizes the importance of team-based leadership and bottom-up approaches in emergency services.

[10:00] Performance Targets in Ambulance Services

Paresh critiques the performance management approach in ambulance services, particularly the focus on response time targets. He argues that this approach pressures ambulance crews and impacts the quality of patient care, as the eight-minute response target often prioritizes speed over effective medical intervention.

[15:00] Cultural Challenges in Fire Services

Paresh highlights the cultural issues within fire services, particularly the lack of diversity and gender balance. He mentions recent reviews highlighting problems related to the treatment of women and ethnic minorities in the fire services and the need for cultural change to address these issues.

[20:00] Professionalization and Its Impact

Paresh talks about the professionalization of emergency services and how it affects motivation and job satisfaction. He discusses the clash between efficiency-focused management models and the mission-driven nature of emergency services work.

[25:00] Crisis Leadership and Shared Leadership

Paresh discusses the need for a shift in leadership models from heroic, top-down approaches to more collaborative, team-based structures. He provides examples of effective shared leadership during crises, such as the Chilean miners' ordeal.

[30:00] Lessons from Grenfell Tower Fire

Paresh analyzes the Grenfell Tower fire, highlighting the failures in communication, evacuation plans, and coordination among emergency services. He stresses the importance of having clear operational plans and better training for handling large-scale incidents.

[35:00] Comparing UK and US Emergency Management

Paresh compares the emergency management structures in the UK and the US, explaining the UK's approach, which lacks a federal agency like FEMA, and discusses the role of local resilience forums in managing crises.

[39:00] Lessons from Captain Sullenberger's Decision-Making

Paresh discusses the famous incident involving Captain Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger, who successfully landed a commercial airplane on the Hudson River after both engines failed due to a bird strike. Paresh uses this example to illustrate the importance of experience, risk assessment, and decisive action in crisis leadership.

[45:00] Shared Leadership Among the Chilean Miners

Paresh discusses the 2010 crisis involving the Chilean miners who were trapped underground for 69 days. He emphasizes the role of shared leadership in their survival, highlighting how the miners collectively made decisions and supported each other throughout the ordeal.

Mentioned in this episode (in reference to the Titanic Disaster)

Why We Can’t See What’s Right in Front of Us

HBR, May 10, 2012

This episode is part of our APMM series. APMM is dedicated to the promotion of professional and effective local government management of Pennsylvania.

SHOW NOTES

Jerry Ozog Bio on LinkedIn

Pennsylvania Fire & Emergency Services Institute

Follow APMM on LinkedIn

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

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TIMESTAMPS

[00:00] Facilitator Leadership

[03:53] Effective Relationships Seminar

[09:03] Building Trust and Transparency

[13:12] Different Cultures in Emergency Services

[15:56] Collaborative Leadership and Flexibility

[21:41] Preserving Collaborative Cultures

[25:54] Community-Based Strategic Planning

[31:42] Inclusion and Diversity

[40:54] Solutions Through Collaboration

QUOTES FROM SHOW

On Collaborative Leadership:

• "In these environments, the day-to-day leadership in today's environment you need more of a facilitator that can bring people to the table and be able to... accept ideas from other people. I want to work with other people."

Balancing Command and Control with Collaboration:

• "Sometimes that leader gets into a position. They are a command and control folk. And there's a lot of problems within the organization where the employees or the volunteers feel that I never get a voice. I never get to say anything."

Building Trust Through Collaboration:

• "I tell municipal officials you don't go immediately and demand records from the fire company. You gotta approach it where let's sit down and have coffee together. Let's talk. Let's identify the fire company leadership. Let's develop that relationship to start to build a little bit of trust and ease our way into helping the fire company and the municipality learn about each other."

Importance of Frontline Input in Strategic Planning:

• "There's something that is called a community-based strategic plan for fire and EMS where a stakeholder group of citizens are brought together... and you use that session as an initial SWOT analysis for defining what their expectations are."

Collaborative Decision-Making in Volunteer Organizations:

• "When you assess and let's say you're working to get a fire tax implemented and doing those things, you definitely want to focus on keeping a few of the traditional events... there has to be a connection and feedback where I see places that are challenged or they're internally making their own decisions based on no feedback."

Overlooking the historic Steel Stacks, the largest revitalized brownfield in the country, it has become a top destination for arts and culture.

What better place then this to host the APMM 2024? Now, come with me for a break from sessions to enjoy voices that echo the theme of the conference, refresh, renew, and reimagine.

Oh, and by the way, are you coachable?

APMM is a premier association for professional municipal management in Pennsylvania. If you would like more information, check out the link below.

Guests include:

• John Ernst, Manager, Lansdale Borough
• Paul Leonard, Retired manager, former manager of Upper Dublin
• Crandall Jones, Manager, Upper Darby Township, APMM 2024 Conference Chair
• Dr. Craig Wheeland, Senior Vice Provost for Academics, Villa Nova University
• Ken Myers, Administrator, Quincy Township
• Carolyn McCreary, Manager, Montgomery Township
• Greg Primm, City Manager, City of Lower Burrell
• Dan Santoro, Manager, Cranberry Township
• Matthew R. Serakowski, Manager Upper St. Clair
• Kyle Beidler, Assistant Manager, Cranberry Township
• Nate Kline, Sr. Acct Executive, Infradaft LLC
• David Pribulka, Manager, Susquehanna Township, Incoming President
• Sara Gibson, Manager, Camp Hill Borough, Incoming Conference Chair
• Tom Vernau, Manager, Lower Allen Township
• Podcast Cover Photo taken by Nicole Whitaker, Manager, Township of Darby

MORE INFORMATION ABOUT APMM

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE

Our conversation today will address the question of how leaders might structure organizations to better adapt to an uncertain world. He identifies key myths and assumptions that are part of traditional models that simply, do not work in times of crisis.      

He is senior partner at PM•Risk Crisis Change and senior researcher at the University of Antwerp in the Business & Economics, Management department and professor at Antwerp Management School. The focus of his current research is on crisis networks, organizational resilience, normal chaos, and the role of crisis governance as a way to anticipate extreme events.

LINKS

Bio at PM Risk Crisis Change

LinkedIn

Research Links

Network of Networks: Preliminary Lessons from the Antwerp Port Authority on Crisis Management and Network Governance to Deal with the COVID-19 Pandemic

Network of Networks: Preliminary Lessons from the Antwerp Port Authority on Crisis Management and Network Governance to Deal with the COVID-19 Pandemic

Mentioned in Episode:

Normal Accidents: Living with High Risk Technologies by Charles Perrow

Video Intro to Episode

TIMESTAMPS

03:00 - Definition of crisis governance and the inherent conflict between crisis and governance.

06:00 - Introduction of the concept of normal chaos and the human factor in crisis creation.

09:00 - Hugo's personal background and journey into academia and crisis management.

12:00 - Working with the fire service and the importance of science and academia in crisis management.

15:00 - Cultural shifts within fire services and the need for multiple good leaders rather than a single strong leader.

18:00 - Collaboration among different emergency services and the impact of hierarchical structures. Examples from the Port of Antwerp and crisis management practices during the COVID-19 lockdown.

27:00 - The concept of resilience in crisis management. Differentiating between bouncing back and bouncing forward after a crisis.

30:00 - The role of leadership in fostering resilience within organizations.

33:00 - Effective coordination and integration of autonomous networks in crisis management.

36:00 - Examples from the Houston Port and the Channel Industries Mutual Aid (CIMA).

39:00 - Real-world implications of network collaboration and trust-building.

42:00 - The role of governance in crisis management and decision-making processes.

- Balancing formal structures with implicit interactions and stakeholder influence.

45:00 - The necessity of political courage and long-term vision in governance.

- Peter Drucker's quote on turbulence and the need to adapt our thinking.

“The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic.”

51:00 - The tendency to repeat mistakes and the lack of learning from past crises.

- Examples from organizational evaluations and recommendations.

54:00 - Addressing systemic issues rather than individual errors in crisis management.

- The slow process of affecting change and the need for ongoing vigilance.

57:00 - Final thoughts on practical steps for improving crisis management.

My guest today shared that quote and much more about what local governments can do to lay the groundwork for a smooth recovery process should the worst-case scenario occur.

We go deep on what can be done before a disaster strikes. We talk about how to expedite the funding process and the unintended consequences when communities do not make the necessary investments before disaster strikes.

Dustin Hinkel works as a consultant at Guidehouse to help state and local governments, schools, nonprofits, find, acquire, spend, and retain grant funding to help them implement their most complex and critical public service projects.

Dustin has an academic background in environmental policy and natural and technological hazards. He began his career in county emergency management but eventually rose to the role of County Executive in Taylor County, Florida before moving into a consultant role with Guidehouse.

Sign up for the Pioneering Change Community Friday newsletter HERE to get inspired and receive updates about the community.

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LINKS TO DUSTIN

Connect with Dustin Hinkel on LinkedIN

More information on Guidehouse.com (State and Local Governments)

TIME STAMPS

[00:03:00] Dustin's background in government and his education in emergency management. Transition from theoretical knowledge to practical application in emergency management.

[00:06:00] The realization of the importance of funding and fiscal stewardship in disaster management. Challenges in managing budgets during disasters.

[00:09:00] Support from mentors and networks in understanding public sector finance and budgeting. The role of regional associations in Florida's emergency management program.

[00:12:00] The impact of insurance rates on government investment in infrastructure.

Case study: The National Flood Insurance Program and its effects during the Great Recession.

[00:15:00] Steps to expedite funding in the event of a disaster.

Importance of pre-existing relationships and mutual aid agreements.

[00:18:00] The role of industry partners in disaster response and recovery.

Example: Utilizing local resources such as tree haulers and timber professionals.

[00:21:00] Typical questions from governments after a disaster regarding reimbursement.

Categories of expenses eligible for FEMA reimbursement and the importance of documentation.

[00:24:00] Political and administrative challenges in securing disaster declarations and assistance.

Example: Taylor County's experience during Hurricane Hermine.

[00:27:00] The importance of persistence and understanding FEMA processes.

The iterative nature of the public assistance process and interactions with FEMA officials.

[00:30:00] The complexities of local vendor preferences in federal procurement processes.

Balancing community involvement with federal standards for fair and competitive pricing.

[00:33:00] The importance of documenting baseline conditions for projects like beach renourishment and road reconstruction. Ensuring transparency and accountability in federal funding.

[00:36:00] Discussion on the Francis Scott Key Bridge and the role of federal government in local disasters. The importance of local and industry input in rebuilding infrastructure.

[00:39:00] The hypothetical scenario of FEMA funding as a loan rather than a grant.

The potential impact on community investment and infrastructure maintenance.

[00:42:00] Ensuring long-term maintenance of infrastructure built with federal funds.

The importance of a life-cycle approach to investment and maintenance.

[00:45:00] The challenges of maintaining infrastructure and the example of a sports complex.

The need for ongoing investment and planning for future maintenance.

[00:48:00] Skills needed for engaging in complex disaster recovery environments.

The role of flexibility, compassion, and external support in disaster management.

[00:51:00] The benefits of external assistance in managing disaster recovery.

The continuous nature of local government responsibilities and the need for ongoing support.

Follow this podcast and sign up for the newsletter to follow this series and related episodes. But more importantly, check out the APMM conference and ICMA conference this fall. If you have been sitting on the fence, well, we are waiting for you.

SHOW NOTES

Learn more about APMM and sign up to be a volunteer at the ICMA Conference

Amanda Serock (LinkedIn)

Amanda has been working professionally in municipal management for 20 years. She is currently serving as the Township Manager in Concord Township, Delaware County, PA where she was appointed in October of 2017. Prior to that she served as Township Manager and Sewer Authority Manager at Chadd's Ford Township.

She received her Master’s Degree in Public Administration from Villanova University and her Bachelor’s Degree from LaSalle University.

David Pribulka (LinkedIn)

David is currently serving as the Township Manager in Susquehanna Township, Dauphin County, PA. since March 2022. Prior to that appointment he served as manager of Ferguson Township for 9.5 years and as Assistant Township Manager at Ferguson prior to that.

He received her Master's Degree in Public Administration from Kutztown University of Pennsylvania and his Bachelor's Degree from Moravian University.

TIME STAMPS:

[00:01:17] Leadership in Local Government.

[00:04:15] Municipal managers sharing technology.

[00:10:16] Generational dynamics in the workplace.

[00:10:48] Changing dynamics in local governments.

[00:16:01] Public safety and crisis.

[00:20:47] Sustainability challenges for managers.

[00:22:11] Professional management and development.

[00:26:02] Finding the Managerial Path.

[00:30:35] Seeking confidence and inclusion.

[00:34:16] Welcoming community in municipal government.

[00:37:43] APMM conference planning excitement.

[00:39:13] Becoming coachable.

[00:42:45] Passing the torch of leadership.

I asked Ray to take a deeper dive into his 8 Traits of High Performing Teams which will soon be out in published form. What stands out to me about Ray is his practical application of theory, direct approach, and insightful understanding of the city manager's role.

Our interview starts by exploring the concepts that influenced his development of these eight traits and concludes with a brief discussion of each trait.

If you like what you hear today, sign up for PCC Local Time Newsletter to get an email in your box every Friday with resources like this.

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Bio

Raymond R. Patchett served as the City Manager for the City of Carlsbad, California, for 20 plus years where he has done extensive implementation of strategic change in a public sector organization. He joined the City in 1985. Prior to his appointment as City Manager in 1987, he served as Assistant City Manager for the City of Carlsbad, and has worked in local government since 1974 with the Cities of Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach and Burbank.

He formed Patchett & Associates in 2006 to offer clients a full spectrum of consulting, coaching and training services that foster community excellence, organizational effectiveness and personal growth.

Patchett holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Public Administration from the University of Southern California, and a Master’s Degree in Organization Development from Pepperdine University. He is a Certified Facilitator in Group Facilitation Methods, Participatory Strategic Planning, and Relationship Awareness Theory

Resources mentioned in this episode:

• Bruce Tuckman; Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing

• Stanley McChrystal, Team of Teams

Quick summary of the 8 Traits:

1. Set the course and stay on course

2. Shape and energize the culture

3. Get the right people on the team

4. Empower others to manage the results

5. Establish ground rules or a working agreement

6. Do things to foster trust

7. Focus on results and regularly track progress

8. Provide flexible guidelines to produce superior results.

TIMESTAMPS:

[00:03:35] Synergy in team building.

[00:04:37] Managing Cross-Functional Teams.

[00:10:04] The mission creates the team.

[00:15:04] City manager as facilitator.

[00:19:18] Facilitation skills in teamwork.

[00:26:20] Bureaucracy in organizations.

[00:27:24] Public service and learning culture.

[00:35:06] Managing resistance and change.

[00:41:30] The ethical obligation to be politically neutral.

[00:44:48] Team development questions.

[00:49:55] Handling resistance in group dynamics.

[00:52:25] Building a safe space.

Peter and I have had many conversations over the years. He has so much to say about the field of city management, but today I bring you perhaps my favorite conversation and that is about his travels to other parts of the world to meet with other city managers and teach.

Marshall holds a Master’s Degree from the Wharton School of the University of Pennsylvania. He has been a municipal manager in Michigan (6 years), Delaware (13 years), and Pennsylvania (22 years). In addition to municipal management, Marshall taught Public Administration, Labor Studies, Municipal Management, and Government at four universities. Marshall has also had extensive experience with local government officials in several foreign countries.

LinkedIn

Article in the Daily Collegian

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Timestamps:

[00:00:22] Traveling during Northern Ireland troubles.

[00:08:25] Journey to Australia for work.

[00:19:05] Life in the Australian Outback.

[00:23:18] Experiences with Indigenous Australians

[00:25:38] Exchange with Christchurch, England

[00:26:15] International travels and conferences.

[00:31:20] A chance encounter.

[00:37:44] Japanese culture observations.

[00:39:12] Homestay with Japanese City Manager

[00:46:28] Teaching in Georgia (former Soviet Union).

[00:51:25] Academic exchange and learning.

[00:51:48] The Value of International Experiences for Managers

[00:53:42] Peter's Takeaways from International Travels

Today we talk with managers about the the role of technology in local government and the need to adapt to and address technology challenges.

My co-host today is Claudia Arriaga, Senior Vice President of Customer Service at OpenGov

Our three distinguished guests include:

Aaron Siko, Manager, Hempfield Township, Westmoreland County

Dave Pribulka Manager, Susquehanna Township, Dauphin County

Brad Gotshall, Manager, Lower Paxton Township, Dauphin County

This episode is brought to you by OpenGov.

OpenGov is the leader in cloud software exclusively designed for local government agencies.

Our mission is to power more effective and accountable government. With more than 1800 local government agencies across the U.S. using its solutions for budgeting and planning, procurement, financials, asset management, and permitting and licensing, the team has heard countless stories from public servants like you. Hear some of the most inspiring ones - and share your own story - at Why We Serve

And, OpenGov is hosting a can't-miss user conference in summer 2024 - it'll be the only time public servants from across all types of agencies. Secure your spot at here: https://opengovtransform2024.vfairs.com/en/.

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:32] Evolving cybersecurity threats.

[00:06:52] Enhancing transparency and communication.

[00:09:42] Using technology for transparency.

[00:13:36] Elected officials and technology.

[00:16:45] Technological enhancements for submitting complaints.

[00:21:40] Automating workflows with technology.

[00:25:33] Future cities and transportation modernization.

[00:28:04] Internet speed upgrade.

[00:32:14] Utilizing data for better services.

[00:36:11] Technology upgrades and collaboration.

[00:40:00] Workplace environment and remote work.

[00:44:22] Enhancements in the mobile workplace.

[00:49:19] Staff-generated ideas and implementation.

[00:51:43] Code enforcement and technology.

[00:57:29] Value-added benefits for employees.

[01:00:54] Cybersecurity and technology vulnerabilities.

[01:05:47] Importance of collaboration and networking.

[01:07:32] Collaboration and gratitude.

Copyright 2026 Nancy Joan Hess

• Christa Breum Amhøj Co-founder Action University, Copenhagen Business School, Denmark
• Pam Adams, Sustainability Planner at Centre Region Council of Governments, Pennsylvania, US
• Jim Price, Borough Manager, Crafton Borough Manager, Sustainable Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, US

This is the second episode in our Across the Pond series in which we engage topics that are both global and local. Where do we locate the limits of our understanding and how can we reach across boundaries to gain insights?

If you are interested in getting more content like this, sign up for our Friday PCC newsletter HERE

BIOS AND CONTACT INFO

John Diamond is an Emeritus Professor of Public Policy and Professional Practice at Edge Hill University in the UK. He works as a critical friend to leaders and practitioners in the not-for-profit and university sectors. Central to his approach is the active use of conversations and dialogue as a way of developing and strengthening the power of relational practice and learning . He is a co-editor of the internationally focused Handbook of Teaching Public Administration (2022) and is co-editor of two book series – University-Community Policy Connections and Critical Perspectives in International Public Sector Management

Christa Breum Amhøj - See also: Slide Deck - Life Affirming Collaboration (Three Waves of Sustainability)

Pam Adams

Jim Price

Resources Mentioned in the Show

Christa:

• The Glasgow Energy Lab
• Laura Storm, Regenerative Leadership
• Tim Ingold Lines of Life

Pam:

• Communities Program - The World Research Institute
• National Renewal Energy Lab
• City Climate Corner Podcast

Jim:

• Sustainable PA
• Paul Hawkins The Ecology of Commerce

John:

• Thomas Bryer, Central Florida University
• (See also) PCC Local Time Episode #27 - Building relationships with local governments and nonprofits; with Dr. John Diamond, Dr. Sarah L Young and Dr. Thomas Bryer.
• Kristy Docherty, University of Edinborough

TIMESTAMPS

00:02:23 Intro: Sustainability and regenerative approaches.

The timestamp for when the podcast starts to discuss the different perspectives on sustainability is 00:10:27. Understanding different perspectives on sustainability.

00:13:00 Regenerative perspective on public management.

00:18:39 New public entrepreneurial perspective: redefining resources and organizations.

00:28:57 Local communities can drive innovation and experimentation for sustainable solutions.

00:30:51 Governance is a continual process.

00:41:00 Climate change research is crucial.

00:43:06 Academia and municipalities need to collaborate for sustainable change.

00:49:00 Importance of university-locality relationships.

00:56:09 Case studies drive sustainable change.

01:02:21 Importance of local engagement.

01:05:55 Holistic approach for sustainable future.

01:12:37 Importance of leadership and collaboration.

This is the first episode in our Across the Pond series in which we engage topics that are both global and local. Where do we locate the limits of our understanding and how can we reach across boundaries to gain insights?

This episode highlights the challenges and demands of policing today. We address legitimacy in policing, the focus on vulnerability vs criminality, recruitment and professional development, and more broadly the evolving nature of police work.

If you are interested in getting more content like this, sign up for our Friday PCC newsletter HERE

SHOWNOTES

Bios

Mike Rowe

• Disassembling Police Culture
• Ethnography and the Evocative World of Policing (OUT SOON; Edited By Matthew Bacon, Bethan Loftus, Mike Rowe)

Ron Camacho

• Spotlight on the work of Ron Camacho
• Strategies to keep your ego in check

[Mentioned in the show @51:23] CURRENT READING LIST FOR BOROUGH OF CHAMBERSBURG POLICE DEPARTMENT

• Emotional Intelligence 2.0 by Travis Bradberry
• Good to Great: Why Some Companies Make the Leap and Others Don't by Jim Collins
• Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win BBY Jocko Willink
• Leaders Eat last: Why Some Teams Pull Together and Others Don't by Simon Sinek
• Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking by Malcolm Gladwell

Timestamps:

00:00:00 Focus on vulnerability in policing.

00:06:25 Importance of community engagement.

00:15:14 Understanding police use of stop and search.

00:20:20 Training is crucial for police.

00:25:18 Discretion influenced by various factors.

00:32:23 Importance of human interactions.

00:36:54 Invest in self-improvement and well-being.

00:42:39 Focus on vulnerability, not criminality.

00:51:23 Education is key for police.

00:54:49 Invest in education for officers.

01:02:18 Support officers in their mission.

01:07:37 Hope for the future of policing.

01:14:06 Importance of continuous learning.

My guest, Kim Nash teaches for the Society of Human Resource Management and has a consultancy focused on helping HR professionals grow their career.

This series contains six conversations that build on the central theme of how HR can create value in an organization.

If you are interested in more in-depth notes on this episode and additional content, or would like to know more about the Pioneering Change Community, sign up for the Friday PCC newsletter HERE

BIO

Kim has spent more than 20 years teaching the SHRM HR Essentials, the SHRM Learning System, and other human resource related courses to mentor and encourage human resource professionals to grow in their professional development and pass the certification exam. In 2017, Kim founded her company, THriv, LLC to mentor, coach, teach, and train human resource professionals and leaders for success. In the spring of 2023, Kim published her first book, Burn the Plow, a story about her career journey, and she launched a Vlog, Fill My Cup designed to renew and inspire leaders in the summer of 2023.

SHOW NOTES

00:00:00 Millennials and Gen Z dominate workforce.

00:09:03 Work-life balance and changing priorities.

00:13:17 Generational interaction is crucial.

00:16:59 Face-to-face interaction is important.

00:23:10 Bridging generation gaps through collaboration.

00:27:29 Reverse mentorship in the workplace.

00:29:03 HR needs to be bridge builders.

00:37:12 HR professionals need financial understanding.

00:43:24 Take initiative in your career.

00:47:33 Explore different paths to HR.

00:55:02 Continuing education is essential.

00:57:11 Importance of HR professionalism.

If you are interested in more in-depth notes on this episode and additional content, or would like to know more about the Pioneering Change Community, sign up for the Friday PCC newsletter HERE

BIO

Kim has spent more than 20 years teaching the SHRM HR Essentials, the SHRM Learning System, and other human resource related courses to mentor and encourage human resource professionals to grow in their professional development and pass the certification exam. In 2017, Kim founded her company, THriv, LLC to mentor, coach, teach, and train human resource professionals and leaders for success. In the spring of 2023, Kim published her first book, Burn the Plow, a story about her career journey, and she launched a Vlog, Fill My Cup designed to renew and inspire leaders in the summer of 2023.

Find out more about Kim Nash HERE or connect with her on LinkedIn

SHOWNOTES:

[00:02:10] Top paying employers struggle.

[00:03:25] Pay is not the only motivator.

[00:04:33] Employee turnover and retention.

[00:51:19] Importance of manager and HR partnership.

[00:08:30] Onboarding and employee buddy.

[00:09:10] Retention starts in the recruitment process.

[00:14:08] Rethinking sign-on bonuses.

[00:19:06] Generational differences in benefit preferences.

[00:26:58] Flexibility in the workplace.

[00:28:03] The gig economy.

[00:31:13] Changing work to enable flexibility.

[00:35:31] Pay increases and fairness.

[00:39:31] HR as scapegoat.

[00:43:18] Termination and difficult conversations.

[00:49:34] Managerial Training and Development.

[00:54:12] Policies and enforcement.

[00:57:37] Involve leadership in policy decisions.

[01:01:23] Odd policies in organizations.

[00:59:14] Importance of effective organizational policies.

In this episode, we talk about the rising occurrence of national issues entering into local politics and the resulting polarization that occurs.

This episode presents views that balance, on the one hand, the role of our federal constitution in supporting activism on national issues at the local level, and on the other, the business of local government and the role of the city manager.

In short, this episode is a quick study on how federalism impacts local government. As you will discern, this conversation is one that deserves many more. But what is presented here is a foundation for understanding, perfectly crafted and presented by my three esteemed guests.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE to get more resources on this episode and community updates every Friday in your inbox.

BIOS

Professor John Kincaid is the Robert B. and Helen S. Meyner Professor of Government and Public Service and Director of the Meyner Center for the Study of State and Local Government at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. He is recognized around the world for his scholarship in the area of Federalism. Connect with him on LinkedIn HERE or learn more about him HERE.

Professor Bev Cigler, is a Penn State Distinguished Professor Emerita of Public Policy and Administration. Her affiliations include Wayne State, Thiel, North Carolina State, University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, and Penn State Harrisburg (PSH). She is well-known for her pracademic perspectives and scholarship in the area of American Federalism and Intergovernmental relations. You can connect with her on LinkedIn HERE or learn more about her HERE.

Matt Candland is the Township Manager of Upper Moreland Township in Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. Born and raised in the Washington DC area. He attended Brigham Young University and received BA – double major English Literature and American Studies; he received his Master of Public Administration from North Carolina State University and a MBA from Frostburg State University – Master of Business Administration. You can connect with him on LinkedIn HERE

SHOW NOTES

00:00:00 Polarization and local politics.

00:08:04 Local government activism can be detrimental.

00:11:36 Local government faces increasing challenges.

00:17:09 Managers' role in addressing issues.

00:21:18 Local governments can push back.

00:24:44 Sanctuary cities and nullification.

00:32:09 Polarization threatens local government effectiveness.

00:34:58 Managers can promote good government.

00:42:17 Digital literacy can reduce polarization.

00:45:24 Moving from debates to dialogue.

00:52:23 Local activism leads to division.

00:53:00 Stay neutral as a manager.

01:04:45 Managers can lower political temperature.

01:02:20 Think globally, act locally.

01:04:59 Managers can influence community temperature.

01:10:57 Local governments can engage internationally.

Each conversation is 30 min and builds on the central theme of how HR can create value in your organization.

These episodes will help you build the business case for HR and help you evaluate your organization needs.

We hope these episodes will stimulate more conversations inside the Pioneering Change Community as we build out content in the coming months.

If you are interested in more in-depth notes on this episode and additional content, or would like to know more about the Pioneering Change Community, sign up for the Friday PCC newsletter HERE

BIO

Kim has spent more than 20 years teaching the SHRM HR Essentials, the SHRM Learning System, and other human resource related courses to mentor and encourage human resource professionals to grow in their professional development and pass the certification exam. In 2017, Kim founded her company, THriv, LLC to mentor, coach, teach, and train human resource professionals and leaders for success. In the spring of 2023, Kim published her first book, Burn the Plow, a story about her career journey, and she launched a Vlog, Fill My Cup designed to renew and inspire leaders in the summer of 2023.

Find out more about Kim Nash HERE or connect with her on LinkedIn

SHOW NOTES:

Episode 1: HR is a necessary Evil

• What do most people think about HR?

• Evolution of the HR function in an organization.

• The reasons HR is important today?

Episode 2: Recruitment – Post-it and They Will Come

• Recruitment is more than posting an open position on a job board

• Discuss the importance of employment branding

• Provide statistics about open positions in the U.S. and the number of job seekers

If you are like me, you may question where the path to diversity begins. This episode will change that.

If you have a desire to leverage diversity, you will come away with ideas and a sense that this is a way to go.

Tremayne Terry and Jarvis Brown are innovating in the space of diversity initiatives. They talk about why such initiatives are necessary and vital for economic, social and communal well being. How they leveraged an opportunity at Capital Region Water in Harrisburg Pennsylvania to organically grow this initiative in the community, is remarkable.

Check out the show notes for more details.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE to get more resources on this episode and community updates every Friday in your inbox.

BIO

Tremayne E. Terry has over 10 years of success in growing a minority business enterprise (MBE) and developing business diversity programs for public and private entities. With a history in state & local government, and public infrastructure, Tremayne is a proven leader when it comes to forging partnerships for businesses and organizations. With demonstrable work in business diversity and strategy development, Tremayne is a proven leader in this field. His goal is to provide clients with cutting-edge solutions while maximizing inclusion for minority-owned, women-owned and other diverse businesses.

Connect with Tremayne on LinkedIn.

Jarvis Brown is Diversity Manager at Capital Region Water in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. You can learn more about him and the supplier diversity management program at the CRW website. HERE

SHOW NOTES

00:00:00 Smaller organizations may be more equipped for supplier diversity programs.

00:05:58 Diversity is essential for success.

00:08:30 Policy in writing vs policy in action.

00:11:38 Disrupting a system.

00:21:28 Supplier diversity is essential.

00:24:54 Building relationships and trust.

00:28:44 Extractive businesses harm community sustainability.

00:35:01 Smaller organizations are more equipped.

00:45:18. Supplier diversity strengthens communities.

00:46:05 Supplier diversity drives project success.

00:49:10 Making business participation easier.

00:52:19 Collaboration is key for diversity.

Quotes:

• 00:06:39 - "So diversity makes sense socially and it makes sense business wise as well."
• 00:09:07 - "The policy as written piece is what our disadvantaged business have historically had complaints about, have not trusted is the policy on paper that no one sees, the policy that it's there, but no one knows what it really says."
• 00:12:02 - "And oftentimes I'll say it, you're, you're disliked by everyone, right?"
• 00:16:52 - "There was just that disruption on the other end and folks filling out paperwork without putting much effort into it."
• 00:19:31 - "It's so built in organizations, no matter what you're trying to change."
• 00:26:47 - "So that's what it means for minority businesses is that they feel like they, they know that they have a voice and an extra seat at the table that's working on their behalf."
• 00:30:45 - "And so this supplier diversity and being able to participate on the construction contracts that are happening right in your backyard is important."
• 00:33:06 - "So when that customer is mad because their water pressure is down or they're mad because there's flooding in the street because of a heavy rainstorm and they want to point the finger at an organization like CRW and their neighbor who works there or their neighbor who has a contract there comes out on behalf of CRW and says, no, we're doing this and this to invest to make sure that these things don't happen."
• 00:36:50 - "So I think a lot of times our smaller organizations are more equipped to build out these programs and build the foundation and build the capacity, like Jarvis mentioned, that's needed in an effort to then help propel these smaller businesses so that they can grow and start to do business with some of the larger organization."
• 00:42:33 - "Spend your money in your community whenever you can."
• 00:44:41 - "It just makes us better. It makes us stronger. It makes us more aware."
• 00:46:17 - "So it's not going to be, it doesn't necessarily drive up price with, what's the word I'm looking for Jarvis, where you set up the project mobility, right?"
• 00:52:50 - "We're all a part of the solution and that no single particular entity should in any way have to carry the full load period."
• 00:54:39 - "So I didn't want to end without mentioning our veterans or our LGBTQ community."

Our conversation is wide ranging, so check out the show notes for more detail.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE to get more resources like this every Friday in your inbox.

BIO

Chief John Stringer on LinkedIn

SHOW NOTES

[00:00:27] Changing retirement plans for officers.

[00:05:39] Professional growth in policing.

[00:08:47] Change in policing mindset.

[00:15:33] Transparency and video release policies.

[00:19:26] Rebuilding police trust.

[00:23:12] Privacy concerns with body cameras.

[00:24:30] Changing the conversation forward.

[00:29:20] The dark side of technology.

00:32:18] Managing technology in law enforcement.

[00:36:30] Hiring and recruiting in 2023.

[00:38:37] Education for police officers.

[00:42:49] Focusing on high liability areas.

[00:47:31] Interesting areas to explore.

[00:49:25] Relationship with police departments.

[00:53:03] Strained relationship with law enforcement.

[01:02:03] The hub model.

[01:04:10] Building a networked government.

[01:09:51] Policing and community adaptation.

[01:11:22] Funding and resource limitations.

[01:15:00] The future of policing.

Today I talk with Jim Oher who has worked as a corporate director, executive consultant, psychoanalyst and group educator. He is also a trained mediator and resiliency hardiness specialist. He is co-author and editor of two books: The Employee Assistance Handbook andThe Employee Assistance Treatment Planner.

If you wonder why we are not using EAPs more to address mental health issues in the workplace, particularly given they are free of cost, this conversation may help you re-think, like it did me, how we could use EAPs in our workplaces to support employees who are struggling to stay plugged in.

As always, I am interested to hear from you. Let me know if you have found ways to make your EAP program more accessible and relevant to employees.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE to get more resources like this every Friday in your inbox.

CONTACT INFO

Jim Oher Website

LinkedIn Profile

The Employee Assistance Treatment Planner

SHOW NOTES

[2:12] Why are mental health issues on the rise?

[8:20] Glad to be Unhappy, sung by Frank Sinatra

[9:11] How might EAP programs be utilized effectively in an organization to help address mental health?

[10:11] Behavioral health field and AI

[11:48] Employee who counseled for substance abuse.

[12:48] Parameters of confidentiality

[15:37] What about softer issues where an employee just needs support?

[17:49] Counseling versus EAP

[20:43] Do HR Managers trust EAPs?

[22:56] EAPs are full of complexities and paradoxes

[25:08] EAP protocol and ethical guidelines

SHRM resources

[26:22] The two paths and what they look like

[29:56] Managers are still not comfortable with the role of coach

[31:26] More on impact of COVID

[37:49] Why don’t leaders engage EAP for coaching?

In this episode, we delve into the topic of bureaucracy and its impact on organizations. We discuss the strengths and weaknesses of bureaucratic structures and how they can either enhance or hinder results. Our conversation transitions to exploring key traits of successful teams, managing transitions, polarization, and conflict resolution. Tune in for an insightful discussion on navigating organizational dynamics for optimal performance.

Raymond R. Patchett served as the City Manager for the City of Carlsbad, California, for 20 plus years where he has done extensive implementation of strategic change in a public sector organization. He formed Patchett & Associates in 2006 to offer clients a full spectrum of consulting, coaching and training services that foster community excellence, organizational effectiveness and personal growth.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE to get more resources like this every Friday in your inbox.

SHOW NOTES

[00:02:32] Limits of bureaucracy in administration.

[00:05:07] Holding fast to integrity.

[00:10:02] Decision-making styles.

[00:15:21] Affirmative topic development.

[00:17:37] Creating organizational culture.

[00:22:19] Beginnings and transitions.

[00:28:38] Mental health and transitions.

[00:33:22] Mental health in the workplace.

[00:36:10] Trauma and work experiences.

[00:43:10] Dealing with logic and emotion.

[00:47:31] Focusing on your business.

[00:49:12] When to speak out.

[00:55:02] Politicizing policies and positions.

[01:00:28] Conflict resolution techniques.

References:

Margaret J Wheatley. Turning to One Another. 2018

William Bridges. Managing Transitions: Making the Most of Change. 2017 edition

Malcom Gladwell. Tipping Point. 2002

In this episode, (Part 1 of 2,) he shares his unique approach to creating high performing teams, partnering with Council and shaping organization culture.

He formed Patchett & Associates in 2006 to offer clients a full spectrum of consulting, coaching and training services that foster community excellence, organizational effectiveness and personal growth.

Sign up for the PCC Local Time Newsletter HERE to get more resources like this every Friday in your inbox.

SHOW NOTES

Timestamps:

[00:01:30] Ray Patchett's work in community building.

[00:03:41] Aging and leadership integration.

[00:09:18] Dream that inspired career.

[00:14:17] Setting goals in city government.

[00:19:19] Managers creating the vision.

[00:20:17] City Manager's Partnership with Council.

[00:26:24] Developing engagement through meaningful work.

[00:31:16] The psychological transition period.

[00:35:20] Affirmative topics.

[00:38:21] Perception of community safety.

[00:44:52] Bureaucracy and agile organizations.

Resources from Episode:

• 8 Traits of Great Teams

• Partnership Wheel

Books mentioned in this episode:

Books by Peter Block:

• The Answer to How Is Yes: Acting on What Matters Paperback – October 1, 2003
• Stewardship: Choosing Service Over Self-Interest Paperback January 1, 1993
• Community: The Structure of Belonging Paperback – July 17, 2018 (2nd Edition)

Peter Koestenbaum. Leadership: The Inner Side of Greatness (Jossey Bass Business & Management Series) 1st Edition

John M. Bryson, Farnum K. Alston. Creating Your Strategic Plan: A Workbook for Public and Nonprofit Organizations 3rd Edition

David Cooperrider. Collaborating for Change: Appreciative Inquiry Paperback (2020 edition)

William Bridges. Managing Transitions: Making the Most of Change (2017 edition)

Chad is coaching, consulting and writing a book now. He is also a popular speaker and a prolific content creator on social media. This episode relates to community safety, mental health and leadership If you know Chad, you know he is engaging and he certainly brings that home in this episode.

CONTACT

Chad Bruckner on LinkedIn

Intercounty Investigations and Solutions

SHOW NOTES

[5:34] From the army to beginnings in law enforcement

[9:05} Policing is messy. It is not black and white. The cool club mentality

[10:33] The questions we are not asking during the selection process

[13:30] Experience as a young sergeant.

[16:55] Episode with mental health / PTSD mid 20’s

[21:36] I felt hopeless and powerless in my situation

[25:29] Vulnerability in leadership

[27:27] Ted Lasso

[33:52] Managers struggle with time and pressures

[41:04] Why I left policing

[43:47] The power of recovery

[48:45] What I am doing now and see coming in the future

BIO

Chief David Steffen - LinkedIn

Chief David Steffen leads the Northern Lancaster County Regional Police Department’s 34-officer force. This is the final chapter in a law enforcement career that began in over forty years ago. Most recently, Steffen concluded 27 years of service with the Northern York County Regional Police Department, a 65-full time officer department serving over 88,000 residents. During his career Chief Steffen developed specializations in advanced forensics, death investigations, child abuse, and sex offense investigation. He has been assigned to countless complex criminal cases and has investigated over a dozen homicides including the arrest of a serial killer who was portrayed in the national media.

As the final chapter of a rewarding career, Chief Steffen was provided a very unique opportunity to design and command a newly formed regional police department putting the lessons learned in a career of regional policing into a newly created department from the actual beginning of the agency.

Since inception on January 1, 2012 the newly established Northern Lancaster County Regional Police Department has grown and now serves the residents of Clay Township, Penn Township, Warwick Township, and the Borough of East Petersburg. The NLCRPD has emerged as a high performance, progressive, professional, full service law enforcement agency utilizing technology, training, with emphasis on career development of agency members in the delivery of high quality police services to approximately 42,500 residents. The agency is accredited and is only one of 116 agencies among over 1,100 in the Commonwealth who are accredited.

Chief Steffen currently serves as Chairman of the Executive Board, and immediate past President of the Pennsylvania Chiefs of Police Association. He serves on various executive committees including the legislative, training and education committee. He is also a member of the Pennsylvania Law Enforcement Accreditation Commission Board, International Association of Chiefs of Police, and other professional organizations. Chief Steffen is married to his wife Lisa for over 42 years and has four adult children, and two grandchildren. In his spare time, he is an avid fly fisherman, outdoors enthusiast, and enjoys RV camping at state parks, cooking and being with his family.

SHOW NOTES

4:20 …A system of tracking of time and other, key performance metrics to provide proof (that they were getting what they paid for) and transparency.

6:18 How the position of Chief was filled….

10:24 Every officer has to have some sort of self-actualization.

11:48 The Goldilocks Story

13:30 That’s the way we have always done it…

18:08 Collaboration across departments (and municipalities) e.g., MS4 example

20:13 Challenges when forming a new department.

22:40 Recruitment and selection of officers

29:00 Attention to diversity

31:51 Emphasis on first-line supervision

37:13 Technology is not used for “gotcha”

41:38 Structure in our organizational charter is providing proofs to our municipalities that we deliver, the services that they pay for.

46:26 Addressing difficult employee issues & wellness

49:22 Lessons from Black Lives Matter movement

56:32 Response time as a metric (why it is not a particularly good one)

1:01:00police departments aren't an island. They're Part of the municipal structure…

1:04:53 A bad organization can go on forever. Good organizations need a lot of work … (Ron Smeal)

Jeffrey Stonehill is only the 3rd manager in the history of Chambersburg Borough. Pennsylvania. This fact speaks to a history and culture that is serious about good governance.

I have been in conversation with Chief Ron Camacho about community safety for a few years and admire the way he has shaped policing culture at the Borough.

Both Jeffrey and Chief Camacho are unique leaders in the way they define the desired future by the choices they make every day.

BIOS AND LINKS

Jeffrey StonehillLinkedIn

JeffreyStonehill – ICMA member spotlight

Chief Roland Camacho LinkedIn

CamachoConsulting

Borough of Chambersburg,Pennsylvania

SHOW NOTES

4:10 Technology has changed policing.

15:09 Officers use body worn film to provide constructive criticism, training and ideas.

17:17 I come from A police culture that was secretive. How transparency evolved to become embedded in the culture.

22:04 The role of social media

23:45 When Chief Camacho arrived and had to change things

28:16 No crime is too small

31:20 Jeffrey: “I don’t want to run the police department.”

34:20 Ego is what really hurts us at that executive level.

37:18 If you two were a dream team, on the road, what would you share with others about your story? If you were to mentor others?

49:00 Happy cops make good cops.

50:56 There is a certain level of consent that the public gives you to pay those taxes to get this kind of output. So it’s a circle…

54:03 Why I talk about ego so much.

59:00 It is the toughest time to be a police officer right now.

59:40 Self reflection and empathy; advocacy for mental health.

1:07 Now there there's pre-counseling Camacho and post counseling Camacho.

1:09 We fund their education, it is a commitment by them to become better officers…national statistics on education of police officers….

BIOS:

Nicole Beckett has 21 years of experience in municipal management in northeast Pennsylvania, including 12 years as the Borough Manager in Lehighton, where she managed a full-service municipality with a total budget of $20 million. She has a Masters of Public Administration degree and a Bachelors of Arts degree from Kutztown University. She has extensive experience in finance and budgeting, labor contract negotiation, zoning and code enforcement, police, public works, economic development and public power. She is a member of the International City and County Managers Association and the Association for Pennsylvania Municipal Managers.

John Kincaid is the Robert B. and Helen S. Meyner Professor of Government and Public Service and Director of the Meyner Center for the Study of State and Local Government at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. He is an elected fellow of the National Academy of Public Administration and recipient of the Distinguished Scholar Award from the Section on Federalism and Intergovernmental Relations of the American Political Science Association, Distinguished Scholar Award from the Section on Intergovernmental Administration and Management of the American Society of Public Administration, and Distinguished Scholar Award from RC28: Comparative Federalism and Multilevel Governance of the International Political Science Association. He served as Senior Editor of the Global Dialogue on Federalism, a joint project of the Forum of Federations and International Association of Centers for Federal Studies (2001-2015); Editor of Publius: The Journal of Federalism (1981-2006); and Executive Director of the U.S. Advisory Commission on Intergovernmental Relations, Washington, D.C. (1988-1994). He is the author of various works on federalism and intergovernmental relations, editor of A Research Agenda for Federalism Studies (Elgar 2019) and Federalism (Sage 4 vols, 2011) and co-editor of Teaching Federalism: Multi-Dimensional Approaches (Elgar 2022), Courts in Federal Countries: Federalists or Unitarists? (Toronto 2017), Intergovernmental Relations in Federal Systems: Comparative Structures and Dynamics (Oxford 2015), Political Parties and Civil Society in Federal Countries (Oxford 2015), Routledge Handbook of Regionalism and Federalism (2013), Constitutional Origins, Structure, and Change in Federal Countries (McGill-Queen’s 2005), and The Covenant Connection: From Federal Theology to Modern Federalism (2000).

Resource for more information about Federalism: https://federalism.org/](https://federalism.org/)

SHOW NOTES:

3:54 The Meyner Center opened in 1994 when I came to Lafayette from Washington, DC as the first director of the center…

8:56 We typically meet weekly and it, it's great to be able to share what goes on out in the world of local government and bring that back.

10:00 Some of the highlights…were being in Moscow in 1991 during the transition from Mikhail Gorbachev to Boris Yeltsin….

12:20 Help us understand why federalism is important to understand today.

17:19 What are the constraints or rights are that are inherent in our system from the perspective of local government?

18:07 Virtually all public policy today is intergovernmental….

20:07 The founders are very concerned also that the federal government be rooted in the people, but it's indirectly rooted in the people…

23:42 Nationalization of state and local politics.

25:02 One of the things the Meyner Center is working and moving toward is trying to promote more education, particularly for elected officials in local governments as to what exactly are the functions of local governments and how they should carry out their responsibilities.

25:51 And over the last. Five, six years, you're, we're really starting to see it in the field, which adds a whole new complexity to the profession because you already have a stressful job.

34:10 local governments and state governments need to make strategic decisions now as how best to invest this money for the long term in terms of appropriate infrastructure, improvements in education and so on.

35:40 And political science research is starting the show now that people have a higher level of trust in their local government if it has better online presence and services, and it's easy to access.

38:40 Privatization. Do local governments have the authority to decide what they do or don’t provide?

44:16 Regionalization - a way of benefiting economies of scale and um, more efficiency in public service provision.

My guest today, Dr. Mandie Cantlin, is manager in East Bradford Township in Chester County. She recently completed her doctorate in public administration and today we drill down on the topic of her dissertation, public trust in local government. While practitioners are in the flow everyday, feeling the heat of communication, academics are studying the impact on public trust. What we learn from one another can shape the way we see our work and the questions we form about the future of public administration.

This is the third episode in our series on building relationships between academia, local government and non-profits to create partnerships that help communities thrive.

Guest Bio

Mandie Cantlin is the Township Manager of East Bradford Township in Chester County Pennsylvania where she has worked for nearly 20 years. Before her tenure at East Bradford, she worked for Edgmont Township in Delaware County for 5 years. Mandie holds a BA in political science, as well as master’s and doctoral degrees in public administration from West Chester University. Her dissertation research work focused on the topic of building and maintaining public trust in local government.

SHOW NOTES:

[4:32] Why the pursuit of a Doctorate?

[8:10] Why the two worlds of academia and practitioners are so different.

[11:04] Local government has different metrics than business.

[14:15] Important to look at the larger context to recognize patterns.

[15:33] People don’t come to public meetings.

[16:45] Action research requires empathy.

[23:50] Why study the role of communication in building trust in local government?

[25:33] Bringing people into the process makes things messy, running government like a business runs the unintended risk of distancing people.

[29:35] Conflict and the way it is addressed has a relationship to trust.

[35:54] Personal integrity is a trait, not a skill.

[39:53] Tricky situations when elected officials lack ethical boundaries.

[43:33] Has your understanding of the role of manager changed since work on our dissertation?

[46:07] Research on trust helps us understand how significant a role it plays in what we do everyday.

[50:00] A conversation about transparency and what it means in real time.

[53:04] Academics and practitioners have so much to learn from one another.

[55:48] The ideal invitation.

Sandra Zadell is manager of Upper Gwynedd Township in Montgomery County Pennsylvania and Dr. Adam Kuczynski is Chair of the MPA program at Villanova University.

In this episode we workshop ideas. We talk about what holds us back and what propels us forward in our relationships.

LINKS TO BIOS:

Sandra Zadell

Dr. Adam Kuczynski

SHOW NOTES:

3:0 Sandra’s background

5:50 Adam’s background

12:23 Everything in management is relationships

- Examples of how Sandra has partnered with academia

15:36 Adam talks about importance of common focus on public service

- Manager’s can participate on Boards or committees in academia

- Academics can build relationships by connecting managers to resources or expertise

17:41 Get to know one another before the need for collaboration arises

21:11 Adam loves the problem solving nature of local government

22:56 Sandra loves to see engagement at the local level and values our democracy

24:30 If you were a team helping other municipalities who were interested in more public engagement….

- A third party might be able to amplify or explain or tamp down expectation or ramp up positivity

- We are the bridge between constituent and government

34:40 When neutrality is called for on the part of the manager and lack of civility

37:28 There is not a Republican or Democratic way to pick up garbage

39:54 Quantitative vs qualitative data for community surveys

47:30 What might be helpful to understand when approaching the academic world vs local government world

51:04 The ideal invitation – how to make it and what not to do.

My guests today take a deep dive into this conversation. Dr. John Diamond, Dr. Sarah L. Young and Dr. Thomas Bryer are actively engaged with this question. We begin and end with the idea that relationships between these sectors hold great potential. We explore examples. We talk about what holds us back from making these relationships. But most importantly, we talk about how these relationships come about.

The show notes provide some good stopping points along the way if you wish to dip into this conversation. They also provide links to some of the references provided in the episode.

So, do we want these relationships, and if so, why? What are we willing to invest in terms of time, social capital and energy to realize them? This conversation is a beginning point to explore how we bridge the divide in our worlds to create better, stronger communities.

GUEST BIOS

John Diamond, Professor Emeritus, Edge Hill University, Lancashire, England.

Thomas Bryer, Professor, School of Public Administration, Central Florida University

Thomas Bryer is professor in the School of Public Administration and director of community-engaged scholarship at the University of Central Florida. He is also professor in the Faculty of Social Sciences, Arts, and Humanities at Kaunas University of Technology in Lithuania and visiting professor in the Institute for Social Responsibility at Edge Hill University in the United Kingdom. He served as a Fulbright scholar in Lithuania from 2015-2017 and a Fulbright specialist in Russia in 2018.

He is the author or editor of 8 books, with three more under contract. Among these is: Higher Education Beyond Job Creation: Universities, Citizenship and Community. (2014) and Promoting Civic Health through University-Community Partnerships: Global Contexts and Experiences (2021).

He is co-editor of a book series for Palgrave Macmillan: "Rethinking University-Community Policy Connections." Prior to his career in academia, he worked for a nonprofit government consulting organization, the Council for Excellence in Government. Bryer can regularly be found teaching workshops and webinars for the International City County Management Association on various topics, including combating disinformation, creating a social media policy and plan, and building relationships with local universities. He can be contacted at thomas.bryer@ucf.edu

Mentioned in podcast episode: Tom Bryer, The Effective Local Government Manager author of Chapter 6, " Achieving Effective Community Leadership in the Future."

Sarah L. Young, Associate Professor & Director of Research for KSU CARES

Dr. Sarah L. Young is an Associate Professor in the School of Government & International Affairs at Kennesaw State University. She also serves as co-Director of the Master of Public Administration Program and the Director of Research for KSU CARES, a campus support program for students who experienced foster care or homelessness. Dr. Young’s research uses systems-based approaches to study the intersection of nonprofit and public management, academic and social equity, and public crises.

Dr. Young earned her Ph.D. from Florida State University’s Askew School of Public Administration and Policy and her M.B.A. in nonprofit management from the University of Tampa Sykes College of Business. Dr. Young is on the editorial boards of the academic journals Teaching Public Administration and Journal of Public Affairs Education. Her research is published in Public Administration, Nonprofit Management & Leadership, American Review of Public Administration, Journal of Public Affairs Education, and other leading academic journals. Dr. Young has accrued almost $2.0 million in funded grants and routinely serves as a subject matter expert in national and international news outlets like Nonprofit Quarterly, Medium.com, and the London School of Economics’ Policy and Politics column, among others.

Dr. Young has won multiple awards for her leadership and scholarship. In 2022, she and her co-authors won the American Society of Public Administration’s 2022 nonprofit scholarship award. Additionally, her recent article, “Erased: Why faculty sexual misconduct is prevalent and how we could prevent it” went viral on social media, catalyzing a movement that united 15 of the leading academic journals, along with numerous associations and institutions, to address faculty sexual misconduct. For this work, Dr. Young won the university’s leadership award in 2021 and the Network of Schools of Public Policy, Affairs, and Administration – Journal of Public Affairs Education outstanding article of the year award in 2022.

To learn more about Dr. Sarah Young, please visit www.NonprofitPhD.com or @Nonprofit_PhD on Twitter.

SHOW NOTES

Definition of critical friend

The Institute for Local Government

5:20 Why relationship building? How are the parameters shaped? Can we create equal partnerships?

11:25 The relationally intelligent manager is the manager who is aware of the diverse array of stakeholders within their orbit.

11:48 There's a known gap in the relationship between local governments and local universities.

14:15 There's no major footprint in terms of what it's supposed to look like for a university to work with a community.

15:12 Communities need to dictate what communities need.

17:05 Conferences are not particularly interested in the world outside our discipline…it's important I think to think about our conference as a way of genuinely meeting people.

21:16 A few conferences are better at blending academics and practitioners, e.g., SXSW EDU and AERA

24:19 We have to be, comfortable breaking out of whatever shell we might have within ourselves to to engage sometimes awkward conversations.

27:55 We have partnered with the City of Orlando, with Orange County, with some nonprofit organizations, faith organizations to help deploy these air quality monitors throughout the, region..

32:36 We brought a group of students to live down on White Oak Pasture's Farm for the summers…And it turned out that there was a water infrastructure issue with the local government ... the water infrastructure for the county was literally tapped out..

34:35 How do we maintain ourselves…be open to random randomness…not to prejudge, predetermine what the relationship might look like and being open to what comes out of the gut …

37:40 Barriers to relationship can be quite significant

41:21 Why do academics hold back? It's about the extent to which the culture ..is supportive ..and how academics balance the workload between teaching, scholarship research and, what we're talking about.

43:26 How this issue is viewed in different parts of the world…

46:31 What is the felt or actual discretion researchers and professors have to engage with community?

49:13 The Walking School Bus example .. relationships don’t start with bureaucracies.

53:29 We created essentially a portal that allowed nonprofits to, to interact and put in requests with the university.

56:28 We're, given very strict guidelines on what is necessary to make tenure. And that's the, golden goose in academia…

57:30 What we need to do is, present ourselves as fellow members of a shared geographic community.

1:01 So … what this looks like is a combination and an integration of experiential knowledge and expert knowledge stripping away the artificial walls that separate us..

1:07 Informal vs formal process … the experience of the community can be quite different for some members.

1:08 Building trust and relationships; actions of the local government may be in conflict with some members of community. How can we help?

1:10 Small “p” political conversations. The importance of neutrality.

1:19 What does your ideal invitation look like?

Whether or not you have contemplated regional models of governance, this episode will open your mind to an alternative way of delivering local government services.

We are talking this month about regional partnership and why or when they might make sense. The Centre Region Council of Governments offers a great model as well as lessons in scaling services. However, it is not without challenges. And we will hear about that as well.

LINKS AND SHOW NOTES

Centre Region Council of Governments

Eric Norenberg LinkedIn

Eric Norenberg has served local governments in five states over his 35+ years in local government. He is the Executive Director of the Centre Region Council of Governments. The Centre Region COG provides a variety of municipal services for six member communities in central Pennsylvania. Previously Eric served as City Manager in Oberlin, OH and in Milford, DE. Eric has a master’s degree in Public Policy from the University of Michigan, is an ICMA credentialed manager. He served on the Ohio City/County Management Association Board and was the Association President in 2013-14. He has served on several ICMA committees, co-chaired the ICMA Task Force on Members in Transition in 2020-21, and is an active Rotarian.

[00:00:00] The executive committee.

[00:02:54] Formation of Center Region Council.

[00:07:29] Committees and meeting schedules.

[00:13:09] The future of COGs.

[00:13:10] The COG as an organization.

[00:17:50] Using consent agenda more.

[00:19:36] COG's workload and municipal meetings.

[00:22:10] COG committee process and coordination.

[00:24:05] Structure of regional partnerships.

[00:26:39] Municipal silos and COG growth.

[00:30:58] Maintenance and reinvestment in facilities.

[00:34:42] The benefits of regional collaboration.

[00:39:38] The value of partnerships.

[00:42:13] Collaborative library book delivery.

[00:44:45] Eric shares Influential people and career path.

[00:47:59] Influence of parents on career choices.

As Ralph says, “there are two things people don’t like. The way things are and change.”

He shares with us his philosophy and approach to managing a Township that fully embraces two ends of a spectrum in culture and business.

I am your host, Nancy Hess and I created PCC Local Time Podcast to start conversations among friends and colleagues in this professional field we call local government.

East Lampeter Township, Lancaster County, Pennsylvania

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Show Notes

3:10 The center of Lancaster County

5:50 Change, a natural state of affairs

11:50 Early mentor, Michael O’Keefe

13:30 Developing manager muscle

15:10 Concept of urban growth and preserving agricultural land

17:10 Early days of shopping outlet mall expansion

22:00 Zoning and the first Walmart in Lancaster

25:40 Impact on police services

27:25 Steady articulation of values through changes in landscape

31:00 Answering the question of “why?”

34:00 Changes that improve organizational effectiveness

38:00 Lincoln Highway Streetscape Plan

44:00 What is on the horizon for transportation projects in Lancaster?

46:10 Imagining the future and regional interests

49:35 Working together in the region and the importance of engagement

We are going to talk about regional partnerships. Why are they important and what are the skills you need to be successful in this arena? We are going to drill down in the area of relationship building and engagement and as you will discern, this is the secret sauce that has made this Township evolve in the way it has over the years.

Cranberry Township has set a high bar for engagement. There is no one better to help us understand how that happened.

I am your host, Nancy Hess and I created PCC Local Time Podcast to start conversations among friends and colleagues in this professional field we call local government.

LINKS:

Cranberry Township

Jerry Andree

Dan Santoro

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SHOW NOTES:

5:00 Early days

9:40 Jerry would say, great idea. Ask probing questions. What is the practical application?

15:57 Board committed to spending time and resources on engaging the community.

17:25 It takes a long time to build trust with elected officials.

19:12 We had listening stations.

21:38 Early slide show, “How to grow a cranberry.”

24:54 Early on, residents identified the importance of collaboration with neighbors.

26:45 Our regional work began with informal meetings.

28:33 All parties taking ownership.

31:52 Dan versus Jerry’s role.