Steven Carlson: My name is Steven Carlson. I am a clinical psychology PhD student here at the University of Utah, and I am in the health psychology specialization, which means that my research, or my clinical work, focuses on the behavioral and biological processes that might undermine sleep health, as well as other kinds of medical issues. And so my research right now for my dissertation focuses on the role of bedtime procrastination, on circadian rhythms and Cardiometabolic Health, but really I am interested in all things sleep, and I'm really happy to be here.

Estella Weeks: Thank you. Okay, why don't we start with the basics? What is sleep like what does your body do during that time. What is your mind doing, and why do we need it? And like, why isn't it even important for us to sleep?

Steven Carlson: Sleep is really a unique process in that we often think of it as this kind of inert state where we just black out for, you know, seven or eight hours, nothing really happens, and we just wake up the next day and, you know, get on with our lives. But what we really know about sleep is that it's a really active process, and so we know that there are physiological and neurological processes that happen during sleep that really don't take place at any other time during the day, right? And so sleep is a really important process for us to be able to repair our bodies, prepare our minds for the next day, as well as to do a lot of really important processing of information that we may have learned over the past day, and so it's a really important time during our lives where we are preparing for our days, as well, as you know, repairing damage that we might have done to our to ourselves, to our tissues, to be able to preserve health and well being. It's quite a lot that happens during sleep. And so the question of, you know, what is it for? Why is it important? You know, it's really difficult to find something in our lives that isn't impacted by our sleep. You know, for better or worse.

Estella Weeks: So how long should you be getting sleep every single night? And does that have factors of like, age, gender?

Steven Carlson: Yeah, absolutely. So there, it's a really great question, and it's honestly not a very straightforward answer. So the National Sleep Foundation put together a consensus panel of sleep experts to try to determine what is the quote, unquote, correct amount of sleep. And so the experts came together in a panel to discuss, you know, what factors might influence recommendations for sleep duration. And what they concluded is that predominantly, age plays a really significant role in the recommendations that we might make for sleep duration. And that makes sense, right? We kind of have this intuitive sense that children and infants require quite a bit more sleep than adults do, and so their recommendations for adults. You know, through young adulthood and middle adulthood is about seven to nine hours per night. There is some evidence to suggest that older adults do tolerate sleep deprivation better than young young adults and middle aged adults. Do you know they have fewer lapses in attention or difficulties with reaction time or things like that after sleep deprivation than than younger adults do, and so you know it really varies across your...]]>Intro: [music] Welcome back to The Daily Utah Chronicle’s opinion podcast. I’m your host, Estella Weeks, and you’re listening to Point of View.

Steven Carlson: My name is Steven Carlson. I am a clinical psychology PhD student here at the University of Utah, and I am in the health psychology specialization, which means that my research, or my clinical work, focuses on the behavioral and biological processes that might undermine sleep health, as well as other kinds of medical issues. And so my research right now for my dissertation focuses on the role of bedtime procrastination, on circadian rhythms and Cardiometabolic Health, but really I am interested in all things sleep, and I'm really happy to be here.

Estella Weeks: Thank you. Okay, why don't we start with the basics? What is sleep like what does your body do during that time. What is your mind doing, and why do we need it? And like, why isn't it even important for us to sleep?

Steven Carlson: Sleep is really a unique process in that we often think of it as this kind of inert state where we just black out for, you know, seven or eight hours, nothing really happens, and we just wake up the next day and, you know, get on with our lives. But what we really know about sleep is that it's a really active process, and so we know that there are physiological and neurological processes that happen during sleep that really don't take place at any other time during the day, right? And so sleep is a really important process for us to be able to repair our bodies, prepare our minds for the next day, as well as to do a lot of really important processing of information that we may have learned over the past day, and so it's a really important time during our lives where we are preparing for our days, as well, as you know, repairing damage that we might have done to our to ourselves, to our tissues, to be able to preserve health and well being. It's quite a lot that happens during sleep. And so the question of, you know, what is it for? Why is it important? You know, it's really difficult to find something in our lives that isn't impacted by our sleep. You know, for better or worse.

Estella Weeks: So how long should you be getting sleep every single night? And does that have factors of like, age, gender?

Steven Carlson: Yeah, absolutely. So there, it's a really great question, and it's honestly not a very straightforward answer. So the National Sleep Foundation put together a consensus panel of sleep experts to try to determine what is the quote, unquote, correct amount of sleep. And so the experts came together in a panel to discuss, you know, what factors might influence recommendations for sleep duration. And what they concluded is that predominantly, age plays a really significant role in the recommendations that we might make for sleep duration. And that makes sense, right? We kind of have this intuitive sense that children and infants require quite a bit more sleep than adults do, and so their recommendations for adults. You know, through young adulthood and middle adulthood is about seven to nine hours per night. There is some evidence to suggest that older adults do tolerate sleep deprivation better than young young adults and middle aged adults. Do you know they have fewer lapses in attention or difficulties with reaction time or things like that after sleep deprivation than than younger adults do, and so you know it really varies across your lifespan, what your sleep needs are, but for most college students, the recommendation is seven to nine hours. 

Estella Weeks: What is the difference between a quality night sleep and sleep where you're waking up consistently throughout the night and you're not finishing those full cycles you mentioned earlier? Could you kind of explain that?

Steven Carlson: Yeah, and typically, I should say, when we are defining, you know, sleep quality, it's often, at least in a clinical setting, that we don't often think about sleep stages or getting enough of any particular kind of sleep stage. Generally, sleep stages are. Are conserved regardless of the duration of sleep that we get, but there does seem to be a correlation between the time that we spend in some sleep stages and sleep quality. And so to the question of what might distinguish between quality sleep and poor quality sleep typically are better at defining what is bad sleep or inadequate sleep or disordered sleep, then we are in defining what is quality sleep. But that being said, you know, there is a emerging kind of model of positive sleep health called the RU SATED or are R U SATED model? And it's it's an anagram so that it represents different dimensions of sleep health, because sleep is really kind of a complex process that has lots of different pieces to it. So, you know, the the R in the model, it stands for regularity. So, you know, sleep quality, we can say, is related to how consistently you are going to bed at the same time. So if you're going to bed and waking up within an hour each day, you know, we would consider that you know, good for your sleep quality. And then S is satisfaction. If you generally feel satisfied, feeling refreshed when you are waking up. That's a good indicator as well. Alertness is A, being able to stay awake through the day without dozing or falling asleep. And then T is the timing of your sleep and so generally we say that you know being asleep between 2 and 4 a.m. so not going to bed too late and not waking up too early, that's an indicator of good timing for your sleep. E is efficiency, so that is being awake for less than 30 minutes per night, so having difficulty falling asleep for longer than 30 minutes, or waking up and not being able to fall back asleep within 30 minutes. And then finally, is D, or the duration of sleep and so, once again, that recommendation of seven to nine hours of sleep per day. And so, you know, put putting that all together, it's way more than just duration, right? Because we can have someone who sleeps nine hours a day, but they're getting that nine hours of sleep in a 12 hour chunk where they're trying to sleep, their sleep is really fragmented. You know, they're waking up and they're feeling really unrefreshed, they're falling asleep during the day. That looks very different than someone who their sleep is more consolidated, and they're feeling better about their sleep.

Estella Weeks: So it sounds like from that a lot of students really would not fit into a healthy sleeping category. Based on all those factors. Is there some sort of correlation between, like, working hours, that your brain is, like, really on throughout the day, and like, a need for more sleep? Because I'm just thinking of students and why it would be important for them to maybe get more sufficient sleep than maybe someone who's not actively, like, working on an education. 

Steven Carlson: Yeah it's really good question. And so the research that we know about how sleep need develops, it really comes out of what we call the two process model for sleep regulation. And in this model, our sleep need, or homeostatic sleep need develops over the course of of the day. So the longer that we're awake, the more sleep need that we develop. And really, that sleep need is largely considered to be use independent. So what that means is that, you know, we don't typically think that it is dependent on how active we are. Rather it's just the consequence of kind of your base metabolic rate. So the longer that you are awake, the more sleep need that you have more we also call it sleep pressure, that you have. And typically, when we want to make sure that people are sleeping, well, it's about making sure that you're falling you're trying to sleep at a time when you do have enough of that sleep pressure, in terms of students who are very active, you know, using a lot of brain power in class, doing a lot of work, you know, and the various roles and responsibilities that students have between, you know, school and work and social lives and all those other things, internships, all of those other things. You know, oftentimes, you know, it's not uncommon to feel more tired on those days where you have a lot of responsibilities, you're really busy, but generally that is more of a subjective feeling of fatigue, rather than the objective tiredness or objective sleep, pressure or sleep need. 

Estella Weeks: What are some consequences of pulling those finals week all nighters, getting really bad quality of sleep and then waking up earlier, you know, drinking coffee or energy drinks to get through the day.

Steven Carlson: College is a time where. There, there's so many pressures on young adults, right? It's a really high stress environment. There's a lot of demands on students to be able to be really productive, to learn a lot and then perform the next day. And so, you know, there is this really strong drive to, perhaps sacrifice sleep to be able to study more, do more assignments, or, you know, pick up additional shifts at work and things like that. And so in the in the case of pulling an all nighter to study, you know, it can certainly make sense to try to do that to get that extra edge on your performance on your test the next day, for example. However, the acute effects of sleep deprivation can really undermine that attempt to study more during the night. And so just to kind of put this into perspective, you know, a night of complete sleep deprivation has a cognitive and like physical motor impact, similar to being legally intoxicated, so having a blood alcohol content of 0.1 and so, you know, it's a really tempting kind of Devil's bargain between I want to study more and be more prepared for this test, but you also have to ask yourself, Okay, but is it worth maybe taking that test with the cognitive level equivalent of being drunk? 

Estella Weeks: So it sounds like you should probably just go to bed instead of that all nighter? 

Steven Carlson: You should probably just go to bed instead of pulling that all nighter, yeah.

Estella Weeks: Good to know. So there is some sort of correlation between maybe better grades and better sleep, yeah. 

Steven Carlson: So there, there is some research on the impact of sleep and academic achievement. You know, we see this in research, both with college age students, but also with high schoolers and even elementary school students, where we see that generally, the better you sleep, the better you perform in school. And this makes sense, right? Because we know that sleep is really important, not just in your ability to perform academically, right, to remember the things that you've learned. You know, sleeping actually helps set you up to learn more more effectively. So it's both in making those memories for the important things that you're learning in class, and then being able to access those memories later on as well. So really, there are acute effects of sleep deprivation on on cognitive functioning, once again, like being drunk, if you're you know are completely without sleep, but most students probably won't be completely without sleep. And so it's more that chronic sleep deprivation that builds up over over the course of longer periods of time that might be more impactful on on grades.

Estella Weeks: You mentioned earlier that most of the time students who are like super sleep deprived, they're not going completely without sleep, and I think that kind of alludes to naps. Can we talk a little bit about if maybe a nap could replace a good night's sleep, or what are the negative consequences of that?

Steven Carlson: You know, it's often a question, either with napping or sleeping in on the weekends, whether or not you can kind of catch up on missed, missed sleep opportunities. And so the question of whether or not you can catch up on sleep. And so what the research shows is that maybe in the short term, you know, a nap or catching up on sleep on the weekends might improve cognitive functioning and things like that. But really that kind of long term, kind of yo yo between not getting enough sleep and then trying to catch up. Not getting enough sleep and catching up, that still has a lot of kind of wear and tear on our ability to to solve complex problems, and, you know, has long term effects on our health as well. And so that kind of irregularity of not getting enough sleep and then trying to compensate on the weekends can be really impactful in terms of our cognitive functioning and our health. And in terms of naps you know, there can be times where taking a power nap, you know, like 20 to 30 minute nap, you know, before a test or something like that, if you are feeling a little bit tired, it can be helpful for improving, you know, your attention, your alertness. But it won't necessarily replace, you know, chronic sleep deprivation. And you know it is worth noting too that you know there might be some drawbacks from using naps as a way to try to compensate from poor sleep. Because it's kind of the situation where you are taking that nap, and you might be borrowing from tonight's sleep to take that nap. And so we talked a little bit about sleep need earlier, right? And so you can kind of think of sleep need as a rubber band. So the longer that you are awake, the more sleep need you have, the more tension there is on that rubber band. You need to have enough tension there to kind of snap into sleep. And so you can think of a nap as reducing that sleep need or having less tension on that rubber band. Or you can also kind of think of it as an appetite for sleep. And so if you have, if you take a nap, it's kind of like spoiling your dinner, and so you're kind of having this sleep snack that makes it harder for you, too to sleep later in the night. And so you know, napping can be something that might perpetuate sleep difficulties like insomnia and and other things like that. It definitely can be a disruption to your nightly sleep if you do have too much of a nap during the day, and that's why, typically, when we recommend these power naps, we really emphasize it being brief, right? 20 to 30 minutes. That way you're not borrowing from that sleep that night. We also tend to have some recommendations in terms of when you place that sleep, because just like appetite with for food, you know, if you have a big snack right, like, right before dinner. It's going to spoil your appetite more than if you had that snack, you know, two hours before. And so typically, we recommend that you have that power nap, you know, at the latest in, like the the early mid afternoon, so like 3 p.m. Of course, it depends on when you're going to bed normally anyway, but you know, we want you to have plenty of time to develop that sleep pressure, that sleep need before going to bed. So it's easier for you to fall asleep and stay asleep, and you know, have good, refreshing sleep that night. 

Estella Weeks: Speaking of bedtimes, what are some things that students can implement in their nightly routine, just to kind of get better sleep, so that you're able to have a better attention span the next day, be able to work harder, all the good things. What are some recommended bedtime routines? 

Steven Carlson: I just want to say once again, that students have such a difficult situation in that students are so overwhelmed, right? And so students often have to juggle a lot of different responsibilities between attending classes and then their actual homework, in addition to actually working jobs and having internships and all of the different things that students have to have to deal with, on top of developing a social life having personal time for yourself. So, you know, you really stack all of that up, and your your daytime disappears pretty quickly. It's really often difficult to find enough time to get all of that done during the day, and so sleep can often be one of the the first things to go when we're doing that kind of calculus, uh, trying to determine how to fit everything in during the day. What I would recommend for for most students, is to really have a plan and trying to stick to a plan where you are setting aside, you know, eight to nine hours in the evening for you to sleep, or during the night for you to sleep, and to be aware of the competition for your time, right? So for everyone that might be different, you know, that might be a late evening work shift, or that might be Netflix, right? Being aware of what's interfering with your sleep time and understanding how you might be able to build in the things that you need earlier in the day. So if you feel like that, you're delaying your sleep because you need that me time, trying to have some of that me time earlier during the day. I would typically recommend, and what might be my number one recommendation, is having a regular bedtime and wake time that you try to stick to every day, including weekends. It is, it is difficult, but you know, you don't have to be perfect, right? That's the good news. What I'd also recommend is, during the day, trying to be physically active, and especially being physically active outdoors. So we also, you know, know that in terms of actual bedtime routines, like things that you actually will want to do, we don't often have specific things like, you know, there there's a lot of things that people like doing. We don't want to be too strict on saying what is right and what is wrong, but generally doing things that are relaxing, avoiding things that are too stimulating or alerting. You know, certainly, you know, the time that we are recording this, looking at the news is pretty stressful. Recommend, generally not looking at the news. Or, you know. Work emails before going to bed, and doing things that you enjoy, that are, you know, relaxing, like reading and things like that can be really great things that kind of set aside the day and prepare for sleep. What really is important, beyond the specific things that you're doing, is having some consistency there, because it's kind of a cue for your body and your brain that, you know, if I am doing X, Y and Z, then it's time to wind down and go to sleep. So that could be, you know, painting your nails or reading a book, or, you know, checking in with your partner, as long as you're not talking about anything too distracting or too too distressing. You know, the specifics of the routine isn't as important as the consistency and making sure you're not doing anything that's too too alerting. Just as a general rule, the things that you know we recommend to our patients is, you know, give yourself at least a half hour where you can unwind, maybe disconnect from the device before, before going to bed. That's also a tricky recommendation for people to make. I...]]>8f0f6c96-f6cb-4cfd-8ae2-dee942e40691Thu, 31 Oct 2024 09:00:00 -060022:20falsefull1151151Estella Weeks Point of View: Internships, More Than a Resume BoosterIntro: [music] Welcome back to The Daily Utah Chronicle’s opinion podcast. I’m your host, Estella Weeks, and you’re listening to Point of View.

Estella Weeks: So we are here with Cameron Vakilian. Cameron's LinkedIn would describe him as the Director of Advising, Outreach and Experimental learning for the College of Humanities. But I would love to hear how you would describe your position here at the U?

Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, actually and so that is my former position. I will say Director of Advising, outreach and experiential learning is what I was doing for the College of Humanities. I haven't really announced this, so it totally and it's not on my LinkedIn or anything. So you are getting me in a complete transition here, but very similar work in that I still work for the College of Humanities as Associate Director for Internships and Career Success. That's my official new title for the College of Humanities, and that is because I now have two jobs. I have, that's my role within College of Humanities, I now also work with U Career Success as a Career Specialist. 

Estella Weeks: Well, congratulations. That's so exciting. 

Cameron Vakilian: Career development in general is growing at the University of Utah, we're trying to bring on more coaches. We're trying to really put intentionality around college to career, really connecting to more employment opportunities and relationships with employers. So, so that's why I you see that I have a new role in that way. I've always been doing so much within experiential learning, careers, internships, but now I'm a little bit more focused in which is great.

Estella Weeks: That's so exciting. So today we're kind of talking all about internships, and this is a big part of your new role. And so would you mind explaining to us just what is an internship? 

Cameron Vakilian: The simplest way I can describe an internship is an experience that you take on to help you gain more skills into a field you want to go into, or just you want to learn more about some form of work. So I describe an internship as a way that you can immerse yourself in an experience, whether that's good or bad, you're learning more about yourself and you're gaining professional skills. So with that, I will say what an internship is not an internship is not a job that has no defined end date, right? Because a job is where you should already be having those skills. The employers hired you to be fully a part of their team, right? And then they're still training with jobs. And of course, there's onboarding and stuff. But an internship, the reason why we call it an internship is because you are gaining experiences, you're learning new things, and that you should have a supervisor or mentor that's guiding you through that process. Usually, you're a student, but you don't always have to be a student to do an internship, but it's that exploratory experience, whether that's good or bad. We hope it's always good and it turns into something where you're like, yeah, I want to learn more about this, or I'm now going to transition this into full time work. But yeah, in general, an internship should always be an experience catered to your career goals and skill development. 

Estella Weeks: Got it, and I know for my major specifically, there is an internship requirement. Do you know if that there's an internship requirement school wide? 

Cameron Vakilian: There is not. That's a good question you bring that up because I think more conversations are going on about that. About should an internship be required because they are so valuable for actually gaining employment out there. But it is not required in a lot of...]]>Intro: [music] Welcome back to The Daily Utah Chronicle’s opinion podcast. I’m your host, Estella Weeks, and you’re listening to Point of View.

Estella Weeks: So we are here with Cameron Vakilian. Cameron's LinkedIn would describe him as the Director of Advising, Outreach and Experimental learning for the College of Humanities. But I would love to hear how you would describe your position here at the U?

Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, actually and so that is my former position. I will say Director of Advising, outreach and experiential learning is what I was doing for the College of Humanities. I haven't really announced this, so it totally and it's not on my LinkedIn or anything. So you are getting me in a complete transition here, but very similar work in that I still work for the College of Humanities as Associate Director for Internships and Career Success. That's my official new title for the College of Humanities, and that is because I now have two jobs. I have, that's my role within College of Humanities, I now also work with U Career Success as a Career Specialist. 

Estella Weeks: Well, congratulations. That's so exciting. 

Cameron Vakilian: Career development in general is growing at the University of Utah, we're trying to bring on more coaches. We're trying to really put intentionality around college to career, really connecting to more employment opportunities and relationships with employers. So, so that's why I you see that I have a new role in that way. I've always been doing so much within experiential learning, careers, internships, but now I'm a little bit more focused in which is great.

Estella Weeks: That's so exciting. So today we're kind of talking all about internships, and this is a big part of your new role. And so would you mind explaining to us just what is an internship? 

Cameron Vakilian: The simplest way I can describe an internship is an experience that you take on to help you gain more skills into a field you want to go into, or just you want to learn more about some form of work. So I describe an internship as a way that you can immerse yourself in an experience, whether that's good or bad, you're learning more about yourself and you're gaining professional skills. So with that, I will say what an internship is not an internship is not a job that has no defined end date, right? Because a job is where you should already be having those skills. The employers hired you to be fully a part of their team, right? And then they're still training with jobs. And of course, there's onboarding and stuff. But an internship, the reason why we call it an internship is because you are gaining experiences, you're learning new things, and that you should have a supervisor or mentor that's guiding you through that process. Usually, you're a student, but you don't always have to be a student to do an internship, but it's that exploratory experience, whether that's good or bad. We hope it's always good and it turns into something where you're like, yeah, I want to learn more about this, or I'm now going to transition this into full time work. But yeah, in general, an internship should always be an experience catered to your career goals and skill development. 

Estella Weeks: Got it, and I know for my major specifically, there is an internship requirement. Do you know if that there's an internship requirement school wide? 

Cameron Vakilian: There is not. That's a good question you bring that up because I think more conversations are going on about that. About should an internship be required because they are so valuable for actually gaining employment out there. But it is not required in a lot of programs. In fact, I think the Department of Communication is the only one that technically requires it if your strategic communication or journalism.

Estella Weeks: Got it.

Cameron Vakilian: But we don't require it for the other majors in the Humanities, like, you know, history, English, all of that, but it is so encouraged, I almost would encourage students to think of it as a requirement.

Estella Weeks: I think it should be required in every major university wide. Do you believe that as well?

Cameron Vakilian: I think so to an extent. Yeah, I think it's the conversations that have been going on about it are also to do with accessibility, right? You know, can students get access to internships, especially paid internships, right? Because more and more that conversation is happening, we need more paid internship. So like you can do unpaid internships, fine, but we really want to encourage more of those paid internships. So there's a question of accessibility So if we make it required, how can we truly make sure everybody gets an internship and gets one that's paid? Because if you get credit for your internship and it's required in curriculum, that means you're paying tuition to take that internship course, right? So then there's that added, you know, if you're not getting paid for your internship, there's that cost. So that's one of the things that is in conversation. You know, to make it a requirement is, how do we make it more accessible? But yes, I mean my true feelings, yeah, are that. That. I wish it would in some form be required, but I don't necessarily think we need to push that always in curriculum or ways that are just going to cost money for students. Rather, I would have it be almost like a requirement that's like an informal requirement, right? Yeah, like that, you as a student should think of it as a requirement on your resume to have some form of internship or experiential learning. 

Estella Weeks: And I never thought about that aspect of accessibility, because in my mind, I would think that if we were to maybe enforce that there could be more opportunities for campus internships and working with a department of like a college that would provide job experience in that way, instead of something that's so classroom based. Because that's what I found most valuable with internships, is the real life like this is what your life could look like after graduation.

Cameron Vakilian: Oh, I would love if there were more on campus internships, more of an emphasis on these short term experiences that many students could do. And I do think if it was required, you would see a lot more intentionality of building more student internships and things like that. So, so it's quite possible down the road that that will come up as very much needed in curriculum is to make sure students are doing those kind of experiences.

Estella Weeks: And what would you say if someone was kind of questioning the value of an internship? Why is this even something that students should be wanting to do and not just a requirement, like if you were to take a 1010, class?

Cameron Vakilian: Definitely, because the value of an internship is pretty widely known. I mean, a lot of people know you have to do internships, but they may not know exactly how to get the most out of an internship. What makes an internship very important is the connections you're building and the skills that you're learning. So it may seem, you know, almost like, Oh, it's a requirement. It's work. I've got to do another thing on top of my school, on top of all these other things I've got going on. But at the end of the day, an internship really is for your development. So it is important to choose an experience that is tailored to you and what you want to be doing, not just taking something because, well, it's an internship. And I was told I was supposed to do an internship, right? But it's actually putting the emphasis on what new skill do I need to learn out there and talk to and I tell students all this, talk to career coaches, talk to mentors if you want to dive into that more like I'm interested in this field, what are the skills that I need that I don't already possess, that an internship could help with? Also, you want your skills to complement the internship. So you obviously want to choose an internship where you already have some great skills in there, so you can really help the organization. But always, you want to make sure you're gaining something else from it to your you have mentorship from the supervisor you're getting a project where you're going to see it from start to finish, and then you're going to learn things in in that process. So that's what it is. It's not just about, should I do an internship? It's like, how do I make the most of that internship? How do I leverage that internship? 

Estella Weeks: So kind of, what I'm hearing specifically is the biggest aspect would be connections. Let's say you're in an internship, how would you kind of navigate relationships with people that are usually what I've struggled with is they're a lot older, they have a lot more experience in the field. So how would you navigate relationships with people that are very experienced and possess more than you do? 

Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, that's a great point. I think that can be what is so intimidating about networking, for a lot of students, is, how do I network with older professionals who know more about this? Or I can see it can seem intimidating in this way, but at the end of the day, always remember people want to see you succeed in those settings, if you have the energy, if you have the passion, you want to grow, and you make that very clear, they will help you, and your networks will grow. And I mean truly, a true supervisor for an internship experience is going to be there for you in that way. They want you to extend your networks. They want you to be seeking new things and initiatives and and taking on just different projects, right? And they'll be there to support you for that. But it can be a lot, right, especially when you're working with very experienced professionals. The more you can just be very authentic about who you are and what you want to learn and what you bring to the table. They'll see that energy. They're going to see that passion. Always say things like "Oh, wow, you know, I saw that you do this, or that the company is working on this. You know, I have a really big interest in that what, what are some things I can do to further, to go further with this?" Showing that kind of commitment, that energy, where, if you take on initiatives, like, "yeah, I want, I want to do that. Can I help with this?" I mean, that's the kind of attitude that, if an intern has, you will go far in your networks. And where I see pitfalls, usually is if a student just stays a little timid in that process, it doesn't reach out to more than just their supervisor, and kind of just sees it as, what is the job you want me to do, and I'll do it. It's not just about that. It's what is the job that you want me to do, but also, where can I grow from this? And how can we mutually help each other in this process? A good supervisor too will learn from you just as much as you learn from them. I've supervised interns myself now, and I will tell you, I get such pleasure out of the energy that they bring and what they teach me. And I know I can offer a lot, and I have a lot of experience that I can teach the interns, but I also learn from them, and I want to see what they're interested in, where their strengths lie, where this will take them after the internship, whether that's staying here in company, or if it's, you know, going somewhere else. So yeah, I would say that's a good strategy.

Estella Weeks: So going above and beyond, and not just relying on the job expectations. And when you're in that position, it's intimidating to be like, oh, there's this project I'd really love to work on, but I don't want to intrude. I don't want to pry. And usually internships are very short periods of time, so if you do, kind of find yourself in times where it's a hardship or it's kind of taking a toll, I always just, might not be the best thing to say, but it's only for a little period of time, and you only have that much time to connect with everybody and make the most of like each experience. 

Cameron Vakilian: Yeah, they know it's short term, and that's why you do it. We want to get the most out of it, and not just sit there and wait for the internship to get done and say, "Oh, maybe I learned a couple things," but really, and remember, people are busy too, where they're not always going to think of what you could be doing or ways that you can contribute where your strengths are. So you got to take on a little bit of that initiative yourself. "Oh, I'm really good at this. Do you think I could help you all by doing this, because I have a really good idea about how we could do this." I love that that kind of energy is exactly what drives success, and I think it's exactly what what you mentioned. It's really just putting yourself out there in the best way that you can. I know that there are experiences I've seen where interns they have negative experiences because they didn't feel like they really went anywhere or did anything. But students do have to remember. Interns need to remember that it is on them a little bit too to foster those kind of connections, but a good supervisor will recognize that and be able to help you grow. And so a meeting regular with a regular meeting with your supervisor, is very important. 

Estella Weeks: Yes, I would love to ask you if you have any specific memories from internships you've done, and what was the biggest takeaway you learned from them? 

Cameron Vakilian: Oh, yes, I have many. Yeah, I've had many internships in my life, and I, that's why I'm so passionate about this, because I've learned so many different things from each of those internships. I would say one big takeaway I think I had was when I did an internship right out of grad school actually. This was an internship, this is a story I often talk about, because it really involves taking initiative. I got that internship by just walking into the center and asking if there was any opportunity to work on stuff. I gave my elevator pitch. I gave my background. This was right out of grad school when I was traveling to I was trying to get work in DC. So in DC you can go everywhere you can go, you know, Southern Maryland, Northern Virginia. So I was all over. So I went to the University of Baltimore, or, I'm sorry, University of Maryland in Baltimore, and went, just went into their community service center, and I asked if there was any kind of opportunity to work. And it led to me talk, sitting down with the director, and he's like, "Yeah, you know, we've got some alumni projects going on. Like, would you want to work on that?" And I would be, :I was like, yeah, like, here's my strengths, here's where I could really help. You know, I just got done with grad school, and I learned these things, and I have a big passion for this," and that was great. And what I took away from that was, just ask anytime you just want to learn something new or grow, ask, because if you get a no, you get a no, but if you don't, it's only going to just further help your development, and you're going to gain more connections. So that was one, I think, in a lot of ways, to some internships I've had, I've taken on projects that I get to truly see ownership of. And I encourage those kind of internships. When you get to be a part of a project or do something that doesn't involve so much of you need to have step by step it shown to you, but that you get enough training and. Is the gist of it, that you're diving in, you're doing it, and then you're seeing it start to finish. When I've had those kind of internships, A: that establishes like I'm pretty good at, kind of just working autonomously in that way, and that relieves the pressure from the organization. They're very they they're very happy with that. They value that a lot. But also the fact that I am kind of seeing a project start to finish, you know, I am gaining really valuable skills in accomplishing tasks. And also I'm showing that I have a strength somewhere. And when you show that you have a strength somewhere, and that you see a project to finish, that can transition to you becoming the head person of that project. Leading to full time employment, leading to a great position, another network, somewhere where you could bring on that same strength. So always see your internships as a way of you really want to show them that you're good at something and that you're growing in something, because you might be put as the point person for that thing, because they would love that, right? I mean, a lot of times these these internship providers, they're hiring you on because they need something taken care of that they can't do themselves, or they just don't have time to do themselves. They also need to make sure they're in it for your growth. It can't just be about them. Like to see that you're good, and you know that you're gonna grow in this and that you know you're in good hands. But boy, if you can take something off somebody's plate, I mean, that's the biggest advice I would offer somebody in life. You can take something off someone's plate, they will appreciate you so much, and they will make sure that you're successful, meaning they might connect you, that they'll put you in their networks, they will try to stick out for you. When you do a good for them, they will do a good for you. 

Estella Weeks: Well, Cameron, thank you so much for that. I mean, I think all students should strive and try to complete at least one before they graduate, because they seriously have so much value, and I don't think you really understand that value until you do yeah do one. So thank you so much for coming on Point of View. Today, I will be linking in our transcription resources to meet with advisors. If you would like to get more information on internships. 

Cameron Vakillain: Yes, please come meet with me if you're College of Humanities for internships. But also, you know, there's lots of people to help you through this process. You don't have to be in it alone. 

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Estella Weeks: E-cigarette usage among college students is on the rise. About 24% of students use them, but we can assume that number is much, much higher. The tobacco consumption boom between the 1920s and 1960s has left that generation with severe health concerns. I'm here with Dr Ryan, a cardiologist with the University of Utah Health, and my question for you, Dr Ryan, is history repeating itself, and is vaping the new cigarettes?

Dr. Ryan: I think the concern that we all have is that vaping might lead to the new cigarettes. Vaping, in and of itself, has some consequences. But when you talk about cigarettes, obviously you're talking about in particular things like emphysema and chronic obstructive lung disease or COPD, and then obviously lung cancer in particular. And those, the risks of those really are massively increased by cigarette smoking. But the concern, in particular, with vaping is not necessarily well, part of it is damage associated with vaping, but the other part of it, as I said, is that it may lead to cigarette consumption, to cigarette use. And what's important is that there is no safe level of nicotine use. There is also no necessity for nicotine use. So people, for example, may challenge. They'll say, 'Oh well, you know, [a] can of Coke is more, you know, or drinking lots of Coke is more, Coca Cola is much more, you know, damaging to your health, than vaping' something along those lines. But that might be true if you're drinking 20 cans of Coke for you and for you know, college students, you can absolutely have a can of Coke, it's going to be just fine, but you should not vape. Things will not be just fine from vaping, or in reality, also, I mean nicotine supplements. So I'll see, Zin in particular is popular right now, and kind of other kind of, you know, I will just say, trendy ways of consuming nicotine. The issue in particular is that at some stage that people, what we know from the science is that people will evolve from using nicotine supplements, such as in or or vaping, and then advance onto cigarette smoking to frank cigarette smoking. The other concern that people have is that it may not actually, it has not been shown at all, or at least convincingly, that using vaping instead of smoking, so one of the arguments being, is that, well, 'my uncle used to smoke, he got lung disease, now he vapes, and now he's going to do much, much better.' There's no real convincing evidence to show that that decreases the risk of people going back to smoking, because again, this is not kind of done under medical monitoring. It's not done under the supervision of you know physicians or nurses, etc, or counselors or psychologists or something along those lines. It's independently done as vaping. The question about independently and for for your your colleagues who will say, Oh, well, I'm never going to smoke, first of all, all of us say we're never going to smoke. And but for your colleagues who say, I'm never going to smoke, the vaping, in and of itself, does have health consequences. So when you do use the nicotine, and this is why I said earlier on Estella that there is no safe or beneficial level of nicotine consumption, because nicotine, in...]]>Intro: [music] Welcome back to The Daily Utah Chronicle's opinion podcast. I'm your host, Estella Weeks, and you're listening to Point of View.

Estella Weeks: E-cigarette usage among college students is on the rise. About 24% of students use them, but we can assume that number is much, much higher. The tobacco consumption boom between the 1920s and 1960s has left that generation with severe health concerns. I'm here with Dr Ryan, a cardiologist with the University of Utah Health, and my question for you, Dr Ryan, is history repeating itself, and is vaping the new cigarettes?

Dr. Ryan: I think the concern that we all have is that vaping might lead to the new cigarettes. Vaping, in and of itself, has some consequences. But when you talk about cigarettes, obviously you're talking about in particular things like emphysema and chronic obstructive lung disease or COPD, and then obviously lung cancer in particular. And those, the risks of those really are massively increased by cigarette smoking. But the concern, in particular, with vaping is not necessarily well, part of it is damage associated with vaping, but the other part of it, as I said, is that it may lead to cigarette consumption, to cigarette use. And what's important is that there is no safe level of nicotine use. There is also no necessity for nicotine use. So people, for example, may challenge. They'll say, 'Oh well, you know, [a] can of Coke is more, you know, or drinking lots of Coke is more, Coca Cola is much more, you know, damaging to your health, than vaping' something along those lines. But that might be true if you're drinking 20 cans of Coke for you and for you know, college students, you can absolutely have a can of Coke, it's going to be just fine, but you should not vape. Things will not be just fine from vaping, or in reality, also, I mean nicotine supplements. So I'll see, Zin in particular is popular right now, and kind of other kind of, you know, I will just say, trendy ways of consuming nicotine. The issue in particular is that at some stage that people, what we know from the science is that people will evolve from using nicotine supplements, such as in or or vaping, and then advance onto cigarette smoking to frank cigarette smoking. The other concern that people have is that it may not actually, it has not been shown at all, or at least convincingly, that using vaping instead of smoking, so one of the arguments being, is that, well, 'my uncle used to smoke, he got lung disease, now he vapes, and now he's going to do much, much better.' There's no real convincing evidence to show that that decreases the risk of people going back to smoking, because again, this is not kind of done under medical monitoring. It's not done under the supervision of you know physicians or nurses, etc, or counselors or psychologists or something along those lines. It's independently done as vaping. The question about independently and for for your your colleagues who will say, Oh, well, I'm never going to smoke, first of all, all of us say we're never going to smoke. And but for your colleagues who say, I'm never going to smoke, the vaping, in and of itself, does have health consequences. So when you do use the nicotine, and this is why I said earlier on Estella that there is no safe or beneficial level of nicotine consumption, because nicotine, in and of itself, does narrow the blood vessels in your heart, in your brain, in your peripheries, so your muscles, So and during those acute episodes of inhaling nicotine in the form of vaping, there is a significant what's called vasoconstriction, where the blood vessels get smaller. These are things in most extreme scenarios, which can trigger heart attacks. Now that admittedly, is not common, but I think your generation is so health conscious, and you do so many good things for your health, exercise, yoga, meditation, all the things that you are all so aware of you know your bodies that it is a little hard to understand why you would introduce a compound that is by definition, toxic. The final aspect then, and is that, I'm not saying that you do this, but you know this is that a lot of people mix things in their vaping products. They might mix oils, they might mix marijuana, they might mix both. There is a condition referred to as EVALI, which is e-vaping, acute lung injury, which, funnily enough, was described first here in Utah, where people will vape oils mixed with their other vaping products, and then it causes acute lung injury. So and those people have needed transplants, they've needed lung resections. Those are major, major consequences. And and this is, as you likely know, or you would suspect, this is a common practice among folks who do vape.

Estella Weeks: You kind of mentioned a couple of scenarios where things were happening, are we still like figuring out medical things that are happening to people who are vaping like is because it's not, it's new relatively.

Dr. Ryan: I mean yes, I mean, it is naive for us to think that we have figured out all the clinical consequences from vaping, but I do feel that we have identified enough clinical consequences that continuing to advocate for it or promote it or start using it is ill advised. I will the only people who benefit from vaping are the people who sell you the vape-pens the vape cartridges the companies.

Estella Weeks: The companies, the money.

Dr. Ryan: Yeah, they're the only people who benefit from you vaping.

Estella Weeks: This is kind of a question about those companies, but I've found that, and there's like research to back this up, that it's marketed towards a specific demographic, which is kind of my generation and younger. Do you think that vaping products are marketed towards a younger audience? And why?

Dr. Ryan: So, yes, they are absolutely marketed towards a younger audience in relation to truly, absolutely why? I don't know, but my suspicion would be, first of all, as you, as you do know younger money or, sorry, young people typically have more disposable income and and and are a higher contributor to the you know, you know, the consumer economy. The other is that you are again going back to the issues about your awareness of health and your interest in, you know, eating well, there's much more you your generation or population have much higher vegetarian proportions, vegan proportions, you know, dairy free, gluten free, you know, this kind of so you all and then you have much more exercise percentages than we have, or even we had. Then you absolutely have more yoga and pilates than we have, or you had, and you have more awareness of core exercise, etc. So you all do have a better awareness of health and how to optimize your health, which is, the thing is, your generation is far at least in the college communities, your generation is far more likely to not smoke than my generation. So I think there is an awareness then that. So instead of Marlboro marketing towards you, Marlboro market to a different population. Instead of that, it is, there is a void in the market. You have money, you have health consciousnesses, you're not smoking. This is an addictive compound that has some you know, when you're my age, you say the word cool, you just sound ridiculous. But there is a cool factor to it.

Estella Weeks: The flavor, the colors.

Dr. Ryan: The flavors, the colors, there's kind of that, not necessarily competition. But you know, even you see this again with Zin and Chill and so on, that people will be like, 'Oh, I have coffee flavored and I have,' you know, all these other things, and there's kind of an excitement or a buzz, pardon the double meaning, but there is kind of a buzz around it.

Estella Weeks: So do you think that, because you're saying that our generation is a lot more health conscious than others, is it kind of just like the unknowing and thinking that vaping is the healthier version of a cigarette?

Dr. Ryan: I think so. I think your, I think mind, my suspicion, at least, is that your colleagues and peers do consider it, as I said, do consider it as a healthier version. And if you ask them, and maybe you can, if you ask them, are you ever going to smoke cigarettes? They'll say, 'Oh, absolutely not. It's never going to be something that's going to be in my future, because it's so bad for you, it's filthy, it's disgusting, it smells bad,' and so on and but unfortunately, the literature, the scientific literature, does not support that, and the scientific literature does support that, you will eventually, or typically, people will eventually advance onto vaping, like a gateway, like a gateway, essentially, yeah, and again, it comes down to the fact that, again, there is no, there's no need for you to consume nicotine. There is absolutely need for you to consume sugar, and that's where the analogies with Coca-Cola, etc, are kind of misplaced. And and there is absolutely a safe consumption of Coca-Cola, but there is not a safe consumption of nicotine. And I think that you all kind of have a to a certain extent, and I'm sorry for using this word, Estella, but there is, to a certain extent, naivety that this is not something that's going to progress. I mean, I guess the other thing then would be, I don't actually know, I don't know the cost differential between, you know, some vaping products versus a pack of cigarettes. Do you?

Estella Weeks: Not off the top of my head, no, but I I've done some research on this of like social media, and right now it is really common. There's been a lot of lung issues, yeah, that have gone viral. And the virality of it has kind of shown the population that vapes like, this is something real that we need to be focusing on. And so I think the price difference would maybe be 10 to $15 I'll go in the transcription and put it in there, but I don't know if it's really a issue of price, because, I mean, it sounds like vaping is an addiction. And I know addicts will kind of go whatever to fill their need.

Dr. Ryan: Yeah, I do think, I mean, people appropriately realize that smoking is disgusting. People smell your clothes smell there's massive health consequences associated with it. And you're right, the vaping does not have quite the same acute health consequences, at least not in as much as large a number as there has been. With cigarette smoking. But there's definitely, there can be such as, what you have represented significant health consequences, and there's no upside, aside from, you know, there's no yeah, let me ask you, Estella, what is the upside from vaping?

Estella Weeks: Maybe the social aspect.

Dr. Ryan: Maybe the social aspect, yeah, maybe the social aspect,

Estella Weeks: The trendiness, you could say, of of it, and seeing maybe influencers do it. And yeah, the influence that media has on us is huge, and I guess just the trendiness of it. So I guess my next question for you is a large majority of the college population vapes. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's pretty it's pretty known. Let's say you're a vaper. When do you need to start thinking seriously about it? Like, How late is too late?

Dr. Ryan: In terms of when do you need to start thinking about it, I would encourage, and I think there's plenty of precedent with cigarette smoking. We know, for example, with cigarette smoking, that on average, it takes people six efforts to stop cigarette smoking. So it takes them six times to say, you know, I'm throwing this packet of cigarettes out. I'm never going to smoke again. That needs to happen six times before there is successful or, on average, six times before there is successful cessation of smoking. So on average, obviously, as you know. But just to be specific, some people, you know, they throw them out and they never smoking again. Some people take some 12 times, you know, so, so there is a broad range there. So I would consider, I would consider vaping similar that by vaping, I would anticipate that again, it's take, gonna take six times of just stopping vaping for you to not do it anymore. And no, obviously you have invested money into it with vape pens and cartridges, etc. And forgive me if they're not called cartridges, but whatever the product is called,

Estella Weeks: I'm not sure of the terminology, pods maybe? Yea like JUUL Pods.

Dr. Ryan: Yeah, that sounds right, yeah. And so there's obviously a cost related to that, but I would anticipate that anytime you vape your plan should be for that should be the last time you're vaping. And our generation had this with cigarette smoking as well. No one, or at least very few people, want to smoke cigarettes. But if you have, you are, as you made reference to you are addicted to cigarette smoking. So it's not necessarily a weakness. I think one thing that I do want to emphasize is that, just more broadly, addiction is not a weakness. It's a medical condition, it's a disease. And so there's nothing necessarily wrong with being addicted. And is just like any other disease, like diabetes or cancer or heart disease, it is difficult to treat. There is treatment out there. Some of it is, you know, things like cognitive behavioral therapy or some sort of counseling or emotional support. Some of it is actually true supplementation, such as nicotine gum, which the chal-, the challenge people lay down as well. How is vaping different to nicotine gum? Well, one is the and now the things that you've talked about about the acute lung injury that you get from vaping, and the other is that nicotine gum, we know actually does decrease your risk of going of smoking and reinitiating smoking. So there clearly is a difference there. It's kind of a straw man argument. So I do think that the time to think about stopping vaping is when you're vaping.

Estella Weeks: Now, the time is now to stop okay, and you know, we've kind of seen that with the smoking generation. There's been a plethora of health issues that have hurt that generation. Do you see our generation, in like 30, 40, years, maybe starting to have a significant death rate? Or?

Dr. Ryan: I don't know about death rate, first of all, I don't know about death rate, but I think you will look back in regret, you know, kind of like, why did I do that? And did I do this to my body? And are the lung consequences that I'm having now? Are they from that, and are they worth it? And so I think there will be, I don't anticipate that your generation are going to look back and say, thank God I vaped. That was the best thing I ever did. You know? I think there will be a regret, and I will say, as you do become and even with your career in journalism, that the more you do see with this, with any of these things, the more you appreciate that you are being, you know, manipulated by advertising, social media, platforms, influencers, etc, and so I do. I certainly have, at least in things that I've done in the past, and I probably still am, but in that regard, that's what I mean by you will not look back and say, thank God I listened to that person who was on Instagram that really changed my life.

Estella Weeks: And health wise, what is probably the scariest kind of a maybe fear mongering, but like, what is the scariest thing that could happen if you have years and years of vaping behind you?

Dr. Ryan: I think the scariest is chronic lung disease, I think acute and chronic lung disease, because it is very hard to repair your lungs. And if you if, if we are lucky enough for you to shift careers and join the medical career, you can fix a lot. You know, you can fix coronary arteries to a certain extent. I mean, you might need to do bypass surgery or other things like that, and you can't fix the lungs. It's incredibly hard to fix the lungs. You might be able to decrease the damage, or you might be able to or you might have to transplant. Yeah, you might have to do lung surgery and transplant. And so I don't think I'll push back a little bit. I don't think that's necessarily fear mongering, I think that is a real possibility. I know it's a real possibility in the acute stage, and such as what you've described. And then I do also know it's a real possibility in the chronic stage. So fear mongering, for me, Estella is more just like, oh, this could happen, but it's not real. You know what? I mean? There are enough real consequences that we know of for an organ system that is, it's a beautiful organ system. It's the size of two tennis courts and but all bunched up into your lungs. It is one of the it is an organ system that is always in contact with the outside world. It's not crazy. It's the isn't that crazy, yeah. So it's always in contact with and your skin, yeah, so and but it is much more, higher kind of turnover and so on. So by damaging that, I don't know why you would want to do that. I don't, and maybe I just sound old at this stage, but I don't know, yeah, I don't know why you'd want to do.

Estella Weeks: I agree with you, completely. I think that's why I'm I mean, I remember in middle school seeing like, seventh graders vape, and I was like, Oh my gosh. And I would go home and tell my mom about it, and she was like, Oh my gosh. Like, please never do that. I think that's a reason why I kind of wanted to bring attention to it was because I just think there's kind of like, there's no knowledge about it. You can see all these videos and on the news of all these things that are happening, but like, peer to peer, I'm trying to say that's if I could tell the vaping population, I would just be like, guys, it's not worth it. Like, it's not worth risking all of these medical conditions that you're gonna have to fix one day, and you're gonna have to do it when you're older and you have a family and you have all these other sort of things that you need to take care of. So what would you say to the college vaping population, if you could?

Dr. Ryan: I would reiterate that. So as I talk with the college communities, or say, my niece, right? You know, I'm seeing my niece on Thursday, she lives in London, so I guess tomorrow. As I talk with her, and you know and folks like yourselves, I think the emphasis is to really, you are a very...]]>79dc6dcc-2525-404a-952a-ccefc348e14bFri, 19 Jul 2024 09:00:00 -060020:25falsefull1121121Stevie ShaughnesseyPoint of View: The STEM Gender GapIn this episode, host Estella Weeks sits down with opinion writer Eseudel Jang and computer science major Caroline Zurcher and discusses the possible reasons why more women aren't participating in STEM fields and majors.