Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast

Episode 12

Candice Nolan — Mon, 23 Aug 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

[00:00:25] Spudcaster: [00:00:25] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts. Podcast

[00:00:39] your life with Baobulb.org.

[00:00:42] SureEyes: [00:00:42] Hey y'all you're listening to quintessentially mental the podcast and I'm your host, SureEyes. Another day, another day had a, quite an interesting chat with one of my cousins. Um, we, we spoke a bit about all familial or family issues and how that potentially affects us and things that we're expected to do to show progress or show that we’re dealing with things.

[00:01:15] And one of the things he asked me was ja but why must I go to a therapist now? This is quite a, you know, interesting conversation. We, you know, people think that using therapists you have some kind of holy grail and they're going to fix you. And all of a sudden things are going to be okay, and you're going to be resolved of all your issues and life is just going to be dandy.

[00:01:49] That's not necessarily true, although it's deconstructed a bit. Why a therapist? So all I asked him was if you broke your arm, Would you go and put a cast on yourself? He looked at me and started laughing and was like, uh, obviously not. And I was like, oh, so if you, you know, had some kind of physical health illness, Are you going to medicate yourself?

[00:02:19] Are you going to write your own script? Are you going to perform open heart surgery? Are you going to, you know, why, why would we treat our mental health different to how we treat our physical health and he was like, okay, I see your point. And I was like, yo, all therapists are another type of medical practitioner.

[00:02:44] Um, and so I think, you know, we, we, we forget that there are specialists for all types of health. So we have, you know, GPS, cardiologists, um, I dunno, neurosurgeons, paediatricians, you know, we have all those kinds of medical practitioners, oncologists, you know, we have all of these types of medical practitioners when it comes to our physical health.

[00:03:18] And if we look at, you know, despite what you believe in, or regardless of what you believe in, they, you know, Idea of spiritual health, and this could be your spiritual health practitioner could be your priest or your rabbi or your mom or your, um, Sharman or your, um, you know, whichever type of your clairvoyant your, you know, whatever or the type of practitioner you deem quanlified in that.

[00:03:52] To deal with your spiritual health. And so the same, I think goes for mental health, right? And so these are people who are trained. And when I say trained, I mean, they also went to school. They also went and studied the subjects that pertain to this particular topic, whether it be. Um, you know, family psychology, whether it be, um, you know, psychiatry, whether it be, you know, studying the Freudian, um, types of belief system, whether it's cognitive behavioural therapy or.

[00:04:34] You know, any other type of, um, therapies. Where there’s actual learning behind an actual, you know, studying of the subject behind what it is they're specialists in. And so the idea of therapy isn't, you know, we should. Just kind of hand off all of our problems to some unknown third party, you know, who is going to wave the therapeutic wand and all of a sudden we're going to be chilled.

[00:05:08] Um, you know, I sometimes joke and I think I'm like, why do I, like, why do I pay my psychiatrist? Which doesn't give me answers. These aren’t people who necessarily or it's been my experience. It hasn't necessarily been people who provide answers or provide solution per se, or provide the action and next steps that I need to take to deal with.

[00:05:37] My particular situation. And so this conversation with my cousin evolved, I said, you know, and so that's what therapists are, whether you go to, um, a psychiatrist who is also a practicing therapist, and that's more, if there's been a medical diagnosis, Um, there might be, you know, medical. And when I say medical, I mean, medication intervention or hospitalisation intervention that needs to happen in order to address the issues that you face.

[00:06:08] Um, and then it was like, you, I don't think my issues are that deep. And I was like, okay, that's fine. You might need a psychiatrist. But, you know, you, you may need to talk to a social worker or a psychologist, a clinical psychologist, or a behavioural psychologist, or a, um, occupational therapist who helps you kind of deal with, you know, work-related school-related issues, you know, there's this range of therapy.

[00:06:39] And I think. The, you know, we blanket all types of therapeutic intervention under one umbrella. And so you had. You know, if I'm going to therapy, I must need medication as an example. And this isn't, this isn't necessarily true. You know, there are different ways and means of dealing with ones. Um, Mental health state.

[00:07:07] It doesn't always have to involve medication. It doesn't always have to involve a therapist, but I think, you know, refusing help of, or refusing the notion of reaching out to a therapist because you think that therapy is only for lunatics. I think that is the problem, right? The fact that we, we see mental health.

[00:07:34] Support and mental health care and mental health help as those things needed by crazy people. When essentially it's just about when you can't cope with the situation or you don't necessarily know how to deal with your overwhelming and it doesn't even have to be overwhelming when you don't know how to deal with feelings that impact your life.

[00:07:58] You sometimes reach out to, um,

[00:08:02] Therapist,

[00:08:05] That said you know, we will, we'll take a break and I will share my journey of how I actually ended up going to therapy. I mean, I speak, I speak at length about being in therapy since I was whatever, like 19 years old, maybe younger, maybe a bit older. I'm not sure.

[00:08:28] But I speak about being in therapy for a prolonged period of time at length. And so I think it's worth delving into what were those situations? What were those? Um, what lead me to actually believing in therapy as a form of mental health support. So after we'll take the short break and, uh, Thank you to our hosts, baobulb.org who graciously hosts such beautiful topics like mental health care discourse.

[00:09:03] Um, and we'll, I'll catch you after the break.

[00:09:07] Spudcaster: [00:09:07] This is a Spudcaster podcast from Baobulb.org.

[00:09:11] SureEyes: [00:09:11] We're back, you're listening to quintessentially mental the podcast, and I'm your host, SureEyes. So before the break, I promised you a bit of a delve into my backstory with therapy, um, which I think is not the traditional one, I think, but I think it does highlight, you know, the points that I'm trying to make it, how I eventually got to a point where I do believe that, um, therapy is one of the tools I have in dealing with and coping with my mental health.

[00:09:47] I think I was in school. I think I was in primary school, late primary school. Maybe early high school. I can't remember exactly. So maybe around between the ages of, let's say 11, 12 and 13, 14 years old. Definitely not 14. So maybe like 11, 12 years old. And my parents had the most, uh, turbulent and dysfunctional relationship, I still have ever seen in my, in my whole damn life.

[00:10:21] Um, and while they were going through the rough periods, my mom thought. Okay. It might be a good idea. To have these kids, see someone, um, who at that point was a social worker to be able to help them deal with the emotions, kind of cope with the situation that, you know, we found ourselves in. So I remember going to this , which only in my later years did I realize was kind of like a free stroke, affordable mental health care facility that offers mental health services, um, across the spectrum, focusing on relationships and more specifically family relations.

[00:11:07] Anyway. So we go to this, we go to this woman and I can't remember if it was just myself and my sister or if it was myself, my sister and my, I can't remember who all was there, I know my mom was there, um, but I can't remember who else. And I remember sitting with this woman and she gave me. Um, a page that had a wheel on it and the wheel had, had been split into, you know, different areas of my life.

[00:11:37] And I kind of had to colour it in how I felt on the different dimensions. And I just thought, okay, lady now, now what now, now, what is this supposed to do? What is this supposed to help me with? Like, I don't understand. I think if we look at it, Therapy track number one, I think my mom didn't quite explain to us what it is we were doing at that place.

[00:12:05] Um, maybe she didn't have the words. Maybe she didn't have the ability. Maybe she, you know, she didn't really explain what was going on. The therapist herself. Didn't quite explain why I needed to colour in like, kind of your feelings or I just didn't understand. She was like, okay, where do you see yourself?

[00:12:25] And just colour it in. And I was like, but what, what is the end goal. What are you actually trying to help me with? What is the going to give you insight to? And it was then that I realized I had a, quite a questioning and critical mind. We, I didn't see the point in doing something for the sake of doing something I needed to do, uh, understand exactly why I was doing, um, what I was doing.

[00:12:55] And I needed to understand, you know, Yeah, I just needed to understand fast forward my first year of university or no second year, first or second year of university. I think it was my second year. We, I was in a relationship that had me because of my own insecurities and because of my own, um, kind of perception of my self-esteem and self-worth, I.

[00:13:26] I really struggled in my relationship where I struggled to separate myself from the person I was in a relationship with where I struggled too. You know, not view his actions as a slight on me or not read his behaviours as has been something to say about me. Um, I took things that he did pretty personally.

[00:13:49] I, I thought that, okay, what he's doing, saying, being acting, it's just living, basically just living. I thought that that might be a reflection of me. And so I went to student health and I started seeing a, um, I started seeing a social worker, um, through, through student health. And again, I was left questioning, like, what am I doing?

[00:14:18] How is this helping? What is the point? What is the plan? Um, why, why, why am I doing this? I don't understand. Fast forward a few more years when I was in my first year of like formal employment. Where through the companies like employee wellness program, they had access to what we had access to a psychologist and I met with the psychologist and eventually, you know, she started putting things in perspective and I thought, okay, so.

[00:14:54] You're going to help me understand myself and help me understand why I do the things I do and help me understand, you know, the things that affect me. Um, and I, I, at that time, I only had like with employee wellness, you only had a set number of sessions that you had access to. I found myself having to the minute we just started getting into the cracks of the situation, the number of sessions that I had, uh, ran out and I thought, okay, now I must go find someone new and explain my whole long story to them again, and then try and get to the crux again.

[00:15:41] And, you know, and I kind of felt defeated where I was just like, how am I. How am I going to find someone I click with, how do I find someone that I'm not going to grow tired of explaining my situation. I'm not going to, I'm not going to, that's something like not to sound arrogant, but sometimes you've got to feel like, you know, the therapist is as smart as you.

[00:16:03] And that can mean a number of things, right. That can mean understands your cultural context or understands, um, you know, understanding. The way, your brain reasons or the way your brain makes connections. And so, you know, I kind of stopped, started stop, started, stopped, started therapy until about 2014. Yeah.

[00:16:31] Beginning of 2014, when. Again, went through a really, you know, so before I get to that, another trend I noticed was I only really reached out for therapeutic help when my life was in crisis, when things were completely falling apart, where I was going through, you know, really dark depressions where I was becoming dysfunctional.

[00:16:57] And actually couldn't, you know, Look after myself, I was like, Ooh, maybe I need help. And so maybe the idea is also not to wait until your life becomes dysfunctional. The other flaw I made was through my stop start, stop start. The minute I started feeling. Not better, but like good about something. I would stop going to therapy because I thought I was cured.

[00:17:26] I thought I was great. I thought I was fine. Not realising that even in those periods, it's good to gauge my coping ability when I am feeling better when I'm not feeling like my entire life is a disaster and things are coming to crash style, you know? Anyway in 2014, I eventually found this therapist who specialised in.

[00:17:55] Relationships and, and to think, and, you know, kind of in hindsight, this is probably where the diagnosis for my borderline personality disorder, which is a relational type disorder. Started coming to the fore where I started to notice the trend that I was fine by myself, but the minute I included another person, especially in a romantic situation, in this mix, shit would get all kinds of fucked up.

[00:18:23] Like I would lose, lose, lose my damn mind. And it was at a point where the person I was in a relationship with had yet again, you know, betrayed me in, in quite a hurtful, deep way. Um, I. I'd kind of gone on a yoga retreat, um, which was a real yoga retreat. It wasn't me, it wasn't code for me going into hospital.

[00:18:54] I was actually at a yoga retreat. Um, and then I thought, you know, maybe, maybe I should go see a therapist who specialises in the thing that I am struggling with. And maybe I also didn't realize that all the things that I had been through. All the different experiences in my life that I had been through. What, what issues that created?

[00:19:20] Maybe I wasn't clear on that. So sure. I had trust issues and daddy issues and abandonment issues and rejection issues. And I had all of those things, but I didn't know how that actually impacted and played out. In my life and it played out in my romantic relationships, but that seemed almost like a no brainer, but how did it play out in mine, in my romantic relationships?

[00:19:50] And so I think when I went to go see this particular professional, who was a specialist in relational or relationship disorders and relationship disaster, And being able to talk to someone who wasn't of the, you need to do this, this, this, and this to fix yourself. You need to, you need to, you know, there was no, there was no dictation or dictatorship, I guess.

[00:20:18] I don't know what the right word is, but there was no, this is how it should be. And these are the steps you need to follow. There was almost a space for me to reflect. On my experience, reflect on my behaviour, have someone as a sounding board, have someone who understands that I'm an intelligent person who is naturally inquisitive and curious, and who wants to be able to figure things out on my own.

[00:20:50] I want to be able to figure things out on my own. I think the minute we place our power in someone else's hands, the minute we. You know, the minute we. Gosh, like the minute we expect someone else to solve our problems for us. I think we put ourselves in a very one disadvantage, but also dangerous situation.

[00:21:13] I think that absolves us of responsibility and accountability. I think it makes it easy for us to blame someone when things don't work out per se. Um, and so I think it's really important for me. To have been able to take that power back, especially having gone through relationships where, I didn't feel like I was empowered.

[00:21:39] I didn't feel like I, I mattered, you know? And so to build a relationship in a safe. You know, we talk about this proverbial therapeutic, safe place. And, you know, we can maybe get to that in another episode, but you know, it, it was really important to me to start feeling like I mattered. So is therapy the only tool?

[00:22:10] No. Is therapy going to fix us all? probably not. What I do think is that. We shouldn't just shut down therapy because we think it's for crazy people, you get different types of therapists who deal with and specialise in different types of psychological and mental. I guess I don't want to say traumas or issues or, you know, but different contexts.

[00:22:38] Um, you could, if you went through something, especially traumatic, the get trauma counsellors, if you are struggling with the death of someone, you get grief counsellors, you know, if you are just simply struggling with managing stress, you know, you get people who specialise in that too. And I think, you know, Don’t knock it till you’ve tried it.

[00:22:58] And also don’t knock it till you've tried it enough times to be able to figure out why it does or doesn't work for you. Anyway, on that note, darlings take care of yourselves, take care of each other, be kind to yourself, be kind to others and, uh, Join me next week for more of my mental health musings.

[00:23:27] And remember we are always, always, always, always, always fully ourselves. Toodles.

[00:23:38] Spudcaster: [00:23:38] thank you for listening to this spudcaster podcast. Don't forget to like share and subscribe.

[00:23:44] SureEyes: [00:23:44] You've been listening to quintessentially mental the podcast, hosted by SureEyes. Join us next week as we continue the conversation about mental health. And remember we are always perfectly ourselves.

Disclaimer: The views expressed do not reflect those of Baobulb.org

episode 11

Candice Nolan — Mon, 16 Aug 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

[00:00:24] Spudcaster: [00:00:24] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major

[00:00:33] podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcast

[00:00:39] your life with baobulb.org.

[00:00:42] SureEyes: [00:00:42] Oh, this is quintessentially mental the podcast. And you're listening to me. Your host SureEyes. today's episode. We're talking about. I guess coping mechanisms or things in your toolkit that you could potentially use to help manage live with deal with your, your mental health state? Um, I dunno. I know personally I've tried a lot of things.

[00:01:13] Um, some things work better than others. Um, I've tried talk therapy, I've tried group therapy. I've tried exercise, mindfulness, eating property, sleep medication. Um, you know, and I guess the truth is that there's no silver bullet. There's no, like this is the recipe for balanced mental wellbeing. Um, or that's what I think.

[00:01:46] I think different things work on different days. Um, and sometimes I don't feel like doing anything sometimes I don't feel like crying. And so I end up wallowing and, you know, just kind of feeling my anxiety or feeling my depression or feeling my overwhelmed. overwhelmed. I don't even know what that word is.

[00:02:11] Overwhelmingness overwhelmed. I don't even know. Um, you know, I, instead of just always going into like problem solving mode and it happened pretty recently, you know, I returned to work after being on maternity leave. Four months. And it's like in my brain, I'd just forgotten that I have a super stressful and busy job.

[00:02:34] I just forgot. And so day one, when I was thrown back into it and I was like, oh, this is actually pretty hectic. Um, And then at about quarter past four, my nanny was getting ready to leave because she leaves at five. And then I thought to myself, shit, I need to do the dishes. I need to take my son. I need to bath my son.

[00:02:56] I need to exercise. I need to finish work. I need to cook. I need to, I just started getting overwhelmed and anxious that I'm not going to be able to do it all. Um, and so I had a major meltdown. I just kind of cried for five hours. And I was, took the meltdown to another level. I was just like, I'm so alone.

[00:03:16] I can't rely on anyone. No, one's here for me. I'm just set to do it all by myself. Like I wallowed. Um, and it took maybe, you know, the next day where I kind of said, okay, but now. I can stay in that state and I can feel the depression coming on if I had to remain in it or I can kind of look at my toolkit and go, okay, I have family support.

[00:03:42] So what

[00:03:43] I had to do was just kind of reach out

[00:03:45] to my mom and be like, Hey, so I kind of need you to. Help me with the cooking or once I've bathed my son, can you take him? And I can just do 30 minutes of exercise or, you know, so I kind of have to reach into my toolkit and figure something out to help me with this particular challenge.

[00:04:06] And I thought it may invite my friend, Nicole, back to the show. Again, we've had a long standing relationship with. Um, we've kind of walked the road. We've tried many things ourselves. We've, self-medicated, we've professionally medicated, we've hospitalised. We've we've done it all. And I kind of just want to have this conversation with her around, you know, how she's built her toolkit and her kind of survival surviving mental wellness.

[00:04:36] Um, so Hey Nick, how you doing?

[00:04:37] Nicole: [00:04:37] It's nice to be back.

[00:04:40] SureEyes: [00:04:40] Thanks so much for joining me again. I appreciate it.

[00:04:45] Nicole: [00:04:45] Glad you think that, uh, what I have to say is so interesting. I mean,

[00:04:50] SureEyes: [00:04:50] we, we, we talk a lot, we talk a lot about mental health. Like when we do connect

[00:04:57] Nicole: [00:04:57] we do no, we do. I think it's important that we do. Um, but just jumping right in there with something that you just said about allowing yourself time to wallow.

[00:05:10] I think that's so important and it's something that's, you know, everybody always says, pull yourself up by the boot strings and just get on with it. Hello.

[00:05:28] I’m against such a sort of idea in society that we've got to always be positive and we beat ourselves up about, about the idea that we're going to have bad days. And it's not really fair to ourselves, you know, because we lambast ourselves whenever we have a bad day and we're like, oh, we just need to get up and get on with it.

[00:05:48] You know, I think there's a lot of value in terms of your toolbox in, in allowing yourself a little bit of time and space to feel what it feels. You know, there's nothing wrong with, with giving yourself a little bit of time and giving yourself. That space to go. Okay. You know what? I've had a bad day. Uh, I, this is how I feel right now and that's okay.

[00:06:14] I'm not going to beat myself up about it. I'm not going to feel like, oh, this, this is what I should be doing instead of this, you know, just allowing yourself that, I mean, obviously it comes with limitations because obviously you don't want to allow. That to become a downward spiral where one day turns into two, two days and two days turns into a week and a week and on and on goes.

[00:06:42] It's not that you want to allow those feelings to, to completely overtake you. But it's just really, about. Not beating yourself up when you do have your minor. Well, in your case, rather extravagant meltdown, but you feel overwhelmed sometimes. It's nice to just throw your toys and that's, and that's okay. As long as then afterwards you go, okay.

[00:07:12] I've had my little meltdown now I'm going to, to see how I can. Deal with this and cope with it and move forward.

[00:07:22] SureEyes: [00:07:22] And I

[00:07:23] think what I learned,

[00:07:25] you know, obviously every mouth I've learned in hindsight from it, you know, where, what I realize I did, which also wasn't fair, but I felt like I needed to have seen it because, you know, in my meltdown where I felt overwhelmed and where I felt like I didn't have support.

[00:07:45] And I felt like, you know, What I, what I then tend to start doing. And I think a lot of us might be guilty of this is then start like kind of convoluting issues or kind of, so instead of me just going, okay, um, I'm feeling overwhelmed because I've now had that. Had to stop working again after having a baby and now new dynamic of, you know, being a mom, being a working mom, and then also having to do all the other chores and having to do kind of compounding it.

[00:08:24] But the fact that, yeah, I'm always giving the ones, caregiver and everyone else, and who's looking after me and then compounding that with why isn't it, you know? And so growing and growing, and I think. I could've maybe cried for an hour. And that was why I ended up like five hours.

[00:08:44] Nicole: [00:08:44] The takeaway from that is that feelings don't exist in isolation.

[00:08:49] You know what you're feeling about one particular issue in that case, it was, it was about work, but. It, it doesn't just limit itself to feeling overwhelmed about work. You know, that might've been the roots root cause of it, but that feeling then spreads into, into everything else in your life. And that can be quite difficult to then start to differentiate, you know, where the spinning is actually coming from.

[00:09:15] But I think one of those tools in the toolkit is to do exactly what you did and look retrospect to be and go. Where is that feeling coming from? And then the next time that meltdown happens, you can, you can stop and you can look at how you're feeling about everything all at once, all of a sudden, and maybe take a step back and go, you know what?

[00:09:40] I'm, I'm feeling overwhelmed for this one reason. And it is making me compound these issues elsewhere. So I'm going to go and do something else for 10 minutes. That feeling will subside and I will come back and I'll feel better about this. Yeah. I think, you know, having, having the ability to, to be introspective about it is, is important so that you can deal with things differently next time.

[00:10:07] SureEyes: [00:10:07] Yeah. So I think if we, if, if we, if we look at this idea of having a toolbox and what's the, I don't know, I remember kind of like a phrase from. Therapy or from where it is like not every tool is a hammer or like, what is it?

[00:10:25] Nicole: [00:10:25] I dunno, I find plenty of uses for a hammer so

[00:10:32] It can sort out pretty much any problem.

[00:10:40] SureEyes: [00:10:40] So, and so I think, you know, if I, if I think about it, You know, before I knew, you know, if we, if you think about this idea or this landscape of having things in our reach to help manage our mental health, you know what I mean? I think you get like things that aren't good for you and you get things that are good.

[00:11:04] Nicole: [00:11:04] Yeah. Yeah, of course the healthy coping strategies

[00:11:08] SureEyes: [00:11:08] that one of my coping strategies before I actually had the self-awareness of like, oh, I'm doing this because I'm feeling a certain way. I just found myself getting lit, like

[00:11:22] drinking

[00:11:23] so much and then realising I’m doing some dumb shit, like just doing some

[00:11:35] super dumb shit. And then after the fact going, um, I was angry also maybe a few years realising, oh, anger's just like, a mask for other emotions, you know, or, or the surface emotion, for other emotions. And so I think, you know, if we, if we can rather, you know, focus our conversation on some of the healthier coping mechanisms and what works for you, what's in your toolkit.

[00:12:09] Nicole: [00:12:09] What's my cocktail.

[00:12:15] You know, I do think that we tend to revert to, to unhealthy coping mechanisms when we feel overwhelmed. It's, it's interesting how that happens. I think that the unhealthy coping mechanisms, uh, things that we've learned over time and they've become sort of ingrained in. How we deal with the day to day, our day to day, the reason why we have these toolboxes and why we refer to them as, as, as this like definitive thing is because having other things to turn to prevents you from going down that route of using those unhealthy unhealthy tools.

[00:12:55] Um, I think a big part of, uh, the, the. The toolbox is actually just knowing that you have that toolbox. Yeah. It's that it's that you have identified X number of things that, that work for you. And when you get into an overwhelming situation or an overwhelming Headspace, or you're feeling depressed, it's knowing that you have those tools.

[00:13:21] That's very important because that prevents you from sliding away. Sort of losing that sense of control when you have your tools and you know that they're there, you have that control. You have the ability to go, okay, I'm going to open up my box and I'm learning to see what's in there and see what I can do in this situation.

[00:13:44] For me, a big. control is a big thing in my life. And just because I've always felt, you know, right from when I was a kid, I felt like my life has always been out of control. So I've, I've done everything that I could to try and try and create that sense of control. And because of that, I've found one, having that toolbox has been very important, but also having strategies.

[00:14:07] And I guess you could call that a tool in my box and having the strategy about what to do in a situation where I start to feel like I'm losing myself or I'm starting to feel depressed or, um, you know, and the anxiety is overtaking me. What do I do in those situations? You know, and I. I have a therapist, obviously that I've spent a lot of time discussing this with.

[00:14:32] And I think it's quite important to actually share these things that you, that you offline with someone, you know, someone else knows what to do in those situations and you know, so that they can help you because oftentimes we're not. When our feelings overwhelm, we can’t see the wood for the trees and it starts to become more difficult trust to make decisions we'll make good decisions for ourselves.

[00:14:57] So having someone there. Um, to, to be able to be your sounding board or to say, you know, this is what we identified when you were in a better space, this is what you should be doing right now. I think that that can be helpful. Um, so yeah, I think, I think having strategy, I mean, it's obviously going to be unique for everybody, but I noticed myself, there are certain things that I know I need to do.

[00:15:28] If my bad day turns into a bad week, turns into a bad month. You know, I see a therapist and I see a therapist even when I'm not getting depressed or, or whatever, it's, it's, it's something that I've consistently done for the last 15 years, because it's important to me. And it's important to have had that resource available when I need it.

[00:15:59] SureEyes: [00:15:59] Um, sorry to interrupt you there. I think that's something that people shy away from right. I think people don't see the value in having a therapist because they're like, why must I talk to a stranger who doesn't know me? Who doesn't know my situ, who's not invested in me. Who's not, you know,

[00:16:15] SureEyes: [00:16:15] And I’m just like for me, my response is always, but you would go to.

[00:16:22] Like

[00:16:23] a bariatric surgeon, like stomach issues. Why wouldn't you go to a psychiatrist or psychologist? Right. Someone trained in the human psyche, someone trained in that particular who understand you, but I'm sure they've seen your kind.

[00:16:47] Nicole: [00:16:47] I think a lot of people have this idea that, oh, why should I talk to a therapist when I can talk to a friend? And there's a big, big difference

[00:16:59] SureEyes: [00:16:59] friends are not trained to deal with

[00:17:01] Nicole: [00:17:01] Not only are, friend's not trained to deal with it, but it's unfair for you to expect your friends, to be able to deal with your mental health issues. You know, they can support you and, and a good friend will support you, but a good friend can’t

[00:17:14] hold you up a good friend can’t give you, you know, the tools that you need to, to dig yourself out of whatever hole you're in and to get your head space back to where it needs to be. You know, you can't expect friends to do that. And if you do, it's actually can be quite emotionally draining for them. I think it's important for us to be aware of that.

[00:17:39] And it's important for us too, to be aware of the effect that we have on our friends when we're in those mental states, not to say that you can't and you shouldn't, I mean, your friends do definitely form a big part of your support structure and now you can't expect them to be everything to you. Yeah.

[00:17:58] Sorry. Carry on.

[00:17:59] SureEyes: [00:17:59] I think this is the mistake we make right is, and I see it in relation like romantic relationship. More so than just with friendships. It's like you expect your partner to be everything to you. Right. You know, to fix all things wrong with you, so to speak. And I, you know, something I used to do in a relationship where I'd have, it's my, you know, it's for you to validate me, it's for you to, um, build my self esteem.

[00:18:37] It's for you to make me feel a certain way. It's for you at that level. Nevermind. You know, once you reach a point of crisis for you to deal with that, you know, It's really dangerous. I think for someone like me, who used to struggle with like codependency, you know, for someone like me who creates dependency in some of the relationships that I have, you know, it's, it's really dangerous because you don’t. You kind of rob yourself

[00:19:12] and the other person of being autonomous or of being, having agency. Of taking control

[00:19:20] Nicole: [00:19:20] You'll definitely eventually cut that person off at the knees because you know, there can't, there's no way that one person can hold another person. It's just, it's impossible. We don't have the capacity as human beings to, to carry someone for an indefinite period of time. You know, so you're doing yourself a disservice, you're doing them a disservice.

[00:19:44] You're doing your relationship a disservice will eventually break it because you are, you are expecting too much from the other person. And I think having a therapist can definitely not only help with those issues, but it can also take a lot of the response, not, not necessarily their responsibility, but a lot of the expectation away from your partner, that a lot of expectation that you have.

[00:20:09] Not the support, but the advice giving and the, you know, just it's about having someone else that you can go to and put your cards on the table and talk through these issues. And actually the better, not only new ways of thinking about things, but perhaps finding those tools that we're actually talking about, finding those in conjunction with someone.

[00:20:38] And a professional someone, as you said, you know if you were to, to have a broken leg, you would go to the door,

[00:20:46] SureEyes: [00:20:46] cholesterol issues, you would go see a dietician, you would see maybe go on some cholesterol meds you'd go on would be doing things that you would do with weight related issues. Right? Blood pressure related things.

[00:21:04] As an example, there’s medication there's diet there's exercise. There's that thing that will solve the full mental health problem. Sorry. I know there was a point when I thought you know, now that I'm on antidepressants, you know, I won't be depressed, you know, and it's like, this is the thing that is going to cure me, you know?

[00:21:34] And eventually having to realize that that's one part of my puzzle. That's one part of the...

King Kairo

Candice Nolan — Mon, 09 Aug 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

[00:00:24] Spudcaster: [00:00:24] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcast your life with baobulb.org.

[00:00:43] SureEyes: [00:00:43] Hey y'all this is quintessentially mental the podcast, and I'm your host. SureEyes. I'm also known by my government name, Cherize Ross. I do some overcompensating for my mood today, I woke up feeling pretty bleak. Um, and this week I wanted to talk about loss and grief and trauma, um, things that have been affecting me on a very personal, very real level, almost daily for now, almost a year.

[00:01:18] Um, I woke up thinking about my. My baby nephew who lived with me from the time of his birth. Um, he was just a few days shy of turning 11 months when he passed away. Um, and that by far was the most traumatic thing that has happened to me in my whole life, in my whole damn life. Um, Before that had happened.

[00:01:50] I'd had other traumatic experiences, whether it was, you know, the number of racial incidents I had experienced where I had my identity, my being my existence, my essence questioned purely because of the colour of my skin, a trauma that I'd been dealing with since I was six years old.

[00:02:19] Um,

[00:02:22] the trauma of being arrested in London for speaking out against, um, a racial incident and maybe taking it too far by calling the British police colonial liars.

[00:02:35] Um, I guess in the heat of the moment, I, I really. Had my anger towards, you know, colonial mindsets and that type of oppression explode on me. And I ended up getting arrested. Another trauma was, you know, something I speak about quite often, which is the end of an eight year relationship. That was quite significant to me.

[00:03:05] And having that be the most traumatic thing that had ever happened. But since the passing of my baby nephew, there has been nothing. That's not true. Actually. I guess my, the birth of my son was probably as traumatic and maybe that's a conversation to have another day where we talk about, you know, almost maternal.

[00:03:35] Traumas and maternal mental health issues, something that I'm experiencing also quite deeply. Um, but like I said, this morning, I woke up thinking about my baby nephew Kairo. I'd call him aunty’s big boy, king Kairo. Um, I woke up feeling really, really sad, um, and really missing him in. I’m just thinking about, you know, he would have been turning two this year and what would he have been saying?

[00:04:11] What would have he, how, you know, what I could tell, even at the age of, you know, almost 11 months, the personality that was developing and, you know, he'd make me laugh. And, you know, I often have the events of that day running through my mind. Um, at the time of his death, I was pregnant with my son. I was about 20 weeks pregnant.

[00:04:39] Um, and I remember waking up on that, on that morning and going into my brother's apartment and, you know, yelling at him for not cleaning out the cat's litter because when you're pregnant, you know, you're not supposed to deal with kitty litter because of the toxins that they, um, that they, that they give off that could potentially harm an unborn baby.

[00:05:06] And usually every morning when I walked into my brother's room or my brother's apartment, I would immediately grab Kairo and kiss him and, you know, ask him. How he slept and talk to him. And on this morning, I was so wrapped up in my, you know, I was in a, on a work call or I was about to have a work, work, uh, work or workshop anyway.

[00:05:36] Um, I needed to have actively participated. And, um, you know, I, I was upset about my brother, just always having to remind him to clean the cat litter. Um, and then I also needed to rush off because my mom wasn't feeling well. She had a bit of a crick in her neck and I'd committed to going to Clicks to, um, you know, get her some Transact patches or something to soothe her stiff neck.

[00:06:12] And, um, yes, I yelled at my brother and he, he just got up out of a daze. Went downstairs. I got into my car and I left. And when I came back, I walked into my house and all I could hear was my mom saying, come Kairo, come Kairo, come, come Kairo. And I thought, this is it. He's walking. You know, he's and I just heard my brother yell for me saying, Cherize come quickly.

[00:06:46] Cherize come quickly. And I just thought, this is the moment. This is it. You know, he, he's walking now. He'd been standing and he'd been edging across surfaces helping himself move. And I thought, this is it. I'm being called to come and see him walk. And as I went up the stairs, nothing could have prepared me for, for what I saw.

[00:07:10] Um, you know, I saw. My mom holding his limp body and my brother completely in shock and devastated, confused. Um, my mom kind of trying to resuscitate him. Um, I was just, I was confused and I kept asking what happened was he left in the bath was, you know, my brother was like, no, no, you know, and there was some, a lot of confusion.

[00:07:43] Um, We called the paramedics. And while they stayed on the phone with them, we continue to administer CPR to Kairo. Um, and it was, it was out of this world. His body was cold and it was limp. Um, he's yeah, he's very little body. Eventually the paramedics arrived. And they took over trying to resuscitate him.

[00:08:19] Um,

[00:08:20] and you know, we, we were told to leave the room that they were in and they continuously tried. And I think the lead paramedic on this, who responded to this call. Found a glimmer of hope on one of the machines, because she quickly grabbed him, instructed her team to follow and instructed me to follow her to the hospital, just down the road from my house, which we were very lucky was so close.

[00:08:52] And as we rushed, you know, she, she kind of, I still have images of, or similar visions of seeing this paramedic, holding his body with all of these. Pipes and attachments to his body and just running down my stairs, running down into the, you know, with his naked body, you're running into the ambulance. Um, I still remember being completely dazed and confused and trying to figure out what exactly was happening.

[00:09:28] As we got to the hospital, they had taken him into the triage area. And I remember distinctly walking in and asking one of the people who worked at the hospital was he breathing. And I think I'm not sure if he didn't hear me or misunderstood me, but all he kept saying was yes, yes the little boy is inside.

[00:09:50] And I took that as, yes. Yes. The little boy is breathing and I almost felt this incredible wave of relief. Just wash over me where I just felt completely and entirely relieved that at least he was breathing as we, as we sat in, in the ER and, you know, filling out the paperwork and you know, me having responses to the, the medical staff, you know, things like that.

[00:10:22] You know, how were you supposed to put a price tag on a life and how am I supposed to, you know, just really reacting and exploding and lashing out to the situation. Eventually we sat down and the lead paramedic and the doctor walked in. This must've been after about maybe 15, 20 minutes. Um, maybe not even maybe 10, 15 minutes.

[00:10:50] I don't really have. A concept of time, um, when it comes to that day and they came to us and, you know, the doctor kind of just shook his head. I don't even know if it was a male doctor, female doctor, I don't even know. Um, but the lead paramedic was a woman and she came to us and she just said, look, we tried our best, but we couldn't save him.

[00:11:17] And it felt like my entire world had just. Crashed my entire world had just come crumbling down. And it was the most surreal feeling because I'd been texting work during the morning saying I have this family emergency, my nephew, isn't breathing, like being quite clinical in my descriptions of the events that were transpiring.

[00:11:46] And almost, it was like, that was something to keep. My hands busy or keep my mind busy was just relaying the events as they unfolded to someone at work who who's my own, your coworker, but, but a friend, um, and I just broke down. I just completely, uh, completely lost it. Um, I couldn't understand how. My brother had changed his nappy at just 4:00 AM on that morning, where he was laughing and talking and babbling and, you know, showing no signs of distress, showing no signs of something, being wrong, showing no signs that only a few hours later he would pass away and.

[00:12:45] And that that by far was the most intensely devastating experience I'd had to date. Um, of course, with his autopsy coming out weeks later, um, it was found that he had Bronco pneumonia, which was present in both his lungs. If I'm not mistaken, And what's completely bizarre is, you know, this is the type of illness with kids that shows signs there's, you know, there's signs of struggling to breathe, there’s signs of, you know, lack of appetite.

[00:13:29] There's, you know, signs of a fever. There's, they're very visible signs before, you know, something like that. Ends up being a fatality ends up taking a baby's life and, and still to this day, I, I, I don't understand, you know, and I remember the days, the moments that hours, the days, the immediacy of moments immediately after my, my nephew had passed.

[00:14:01] Everyone kept saying to me, you know, you need to look after your own son. You need to. You need to look after yourself so that you can look off to your son. And you know, this was, it was a very confusing and bizarre time for me because Kairo was like my son, you know, he lived with me from the time of his birth.

[00:14:25] We cared for him. We looked after him. We bought nappies and milk and tried new foods with him and had bath time with him. For all intents and purposes, you know, he was like a son to me. And so his, it was the strange concept of how am I to mourn this human who grace, my life for almost 11 months brought me so much joy.

[00:14:56] And yet I was so sad at his passing and yet still needed to be excited and. Happy about the pending arrival of my own son, my biological son. Um, it's something that, you know, it took me a while to kind of realize that our emotions aren't black and white, I emotions aren't either, or our emotions aren't mutually exclusive for a long time.

[00:15:28] I felt that I could not be happy because I was grieving. And I could not grieve because I was happy. Um, and it took a while for me to realize that,

[00:15:41] you know,

[00:15:45] emotions exist on a spectrum. You know, emotions exist, not mutually exclusive of each other and, and took a long while for me to be able to accept that.

[00:15:57] I remember going to my 20 week scan and my. The gynecologist's telling me, but your little boy is perfect. He's anatomy is perfect. His lungs, his kidneys, his heart, his spine, his brain, everything is perfect. And I just burst into tears. I couldn't, you know, in the same, in that moment, I was so ecstatically happy that everything was perfect with my own little boy.

[00:16:30] And so completely devastated that my Kairo was no more. Um, I'm going to pause there and let's take a break to hear from our sponsors. Um, and we'll return where, you know, I'll, I'll kind of talk a bit about how his passing affected me in, in the days coming and in the months coming and still to this day.

[00:16:57] Um, so let's hear from our sponsors. And while we do that, thank you to our wonderful host baobulb platform an organisation who continue to provide us with the space to have these very important conversations.

[00:17:15] Spudcaster: [00:17:15] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcasts your life with baobulb.org.

[00:17:33] SureEyes: [00:17:33] Welcome back. Um, this is quintessentially mental, the podcast. In an earlier segment. I shared in detail, my experience of losing my young nephew, my baby nephew king Kairo, and how that affected me. Um, and I wanted to talk a bit about how, you know, I I've, I've struggled, you know, since his passing, I've struggled with deep anxiety.

[00:18:05] Um, constantly wondering questioning if the same thing is going to happen to my son, you know, kind of paranoid that I'm overlooking a symptom guilty that, you know, I didn't take as good care of Kairo as I should have or as I could have or as I, you know, and these things don't matter, right. The could’ve/should’ves, they don’t matter.

[00:18:31] Uh, what does matter it is. You know that I try to find some peace. And so, and so in the days after his, in the days after his passing, um, I barely ate, I barely slept. I cried continuously. Um, I, I was a zombie, you know, it was, it was a very, very difficult period. And yet still having to. Become functional as we planned his funeral, um, still become, you know, be functional so that I could be there for my brother who I cannot fathom, had to bury his child, um, to this, to this day.

[00:19:22] It's not something that I think any person should experience the loss of your child. And so as the days progressed, two weeks, every Tuesday, he passed away on a Tuesday, every Tuesday would be a reminder of, you know, it's been so many weeks since Kairo passed away and the events of that morning would run through my mind.

[00:19:50] And every Tuesday was so difficult for me. Um, And it would also be the mark of a new week in my pregnancy, which was again, this juxtaposition of, you know, emotion, positive and negative emotion that I was feeling at the same time. Um, and so the 23rd of each month became a difficult date for me to digest where, you know, So many months since Kairo had passed and I'm still shook, I guess, by how sudden his passing was, I'm still shook by the fact that I don't hear him anymore, that I don't see him anymore, that, you know, he's gone, I guess.

[00:20:43] And this is, this is the thing, right? Is death definitely triggers, very unstable, emotional and mental health situations, feelings. I don't even know what to call it right now. I'm pretty emotional as I'm sharing this. Um, you know, it's, it's something that triggers. You know, if I think of, if it wasn't for my pregnancy and you know, I I'd say this to my close friends and my family that if it wasn't for my pregnancy, I probably would have gone off at the deep end.

[00:21:21] And I would've gone on some kind of binge, I would have gone into some kind of destructive force and, and by all intents and purposes, my pregnancy with my own son saved me from the depths of, of grief for Kairo. Um, as I said, I still struggle with anxiety. I still, you know, check if my son is breathing, I still check if, you know, if every cough kind of triggers alarm bells, every, you know, and I think to this day, not having closure on what caused it really plays with my mind and really affects the way that I, you know, View my son.

[00:22:10] And that's been a very tiring process not to allow this, to consume me and to really infiltrate the way I raise my son. I'm talking about it now. I can almost see how far I've come, you know, way I'm able now to. Allow my son to be sleeping and leave the room, even if it's just 10 minutes. Um, my paranoia doesn't seem to be as prevalent.

[00:22:42] My anxiety isn't always as high. Um, but it's definitely something that still lingers at the back of my mind. Something that still plays on my mind. And I think will play in my mind for a very long time. And so I know this podcast episode, isn't really giving much advice

[00:23:05] or

[00:23:08] I don't know, isn't really concluding.

[00:23:13] I really don't have any words of wisdom on, on death on this particular topic. But I know there's a, there's a quote by Rumi that always, that always stands out for me. You are not a drop in the ocean. Well, I'm paraphrasing because Rumi and I don't have it in front of me, but basically it says, you know, you are not a drop in the ocean, but the entire ocean in a drop.

[00:23:42] And that almost gave me comfort that, you know, why did I always say by Kairos life had yet to begin? He, you know, he was a whole full person in his entire life. Um, he lacked nothing. He, he needed nothing. And, you know, I kind of, I reached a point in my grieving process where I almost thought, you know, whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better, whatever, whatever that thing is that you need to tell yourself to feel better.

[00:24:14] Tell yourself that thing. And for me, what I, you know, what I kept telling myself was, you know, you taught me how to love. He taught me. That I could love unconditionally. He taught me that I could have love for someone and something that wasn't necessarily out of my body. And I knew whatever doubt I had, about the type of mother I would be.

[00:24:41] I knew with certainty that I would be the best mother possible to my son. I don't know how to conclude this episode. Um, If you are dealing with grief and loss and death related trauma, I urge you to talk to someone who understands that psychology, um, who understands trauma and the grief process, and, you know, allowing yourself to move through a very non-linear healing process.

[00:25:21] On that note, darlings, um, love yourself and each other be kind to yourself and each other. Um, yeah. Hit me up on, on social media on socials. If you want to talk, I'm here too. I think this is the first time that I've extended my help or my ear to those who need it. So. Feel free to reach out, to reach out to me.

[00:25:52] I'm Cherize Ross on Facebook and @S U R E Y E S on Instagram. Slide into those DM’s and, uh, yeah, be kind to yourself. Really one love. Toodles

[00:26:09] Spudcaster: [00:26:09] Thank you for listening to this spudcaster podcast. Don't forget to like share and subscribe.

[00:26:18] SureEyes: [00:26:18] You've been listening to quintessentially mental the podcast, hosted by SureEyes.

[00:26:24] Join us next week as we continue the conversation about mental health. And remember we are always perfectly ourselves.

Disclaimer: The views expressed do not reflect those of baobulb.org

Teenage Love Affair

Candice Nolan — Mon, 02 Aug 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

[00:00:25] Spudcaster: [00:00:25] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple

[00:00:36] and Google podcasts,

[00:00:38] podcasts your life with

[00:00:40] baobulb.org.

[00:00:43] SureEyes: [00:00:43] Hey, y'all, you're listening to quintessentially mental the podcast. And I'm your host SureEyes. Welcome to yet another episode where we'll be talking about all things, quintessentially, mental, all things linked to our mental health, our mental wellbeing. Um, just kind of putting a spotlight on important conversations that need to be had in a more public space.

[00:01:12] Today's episode. I actually have my sister, another sister, I think in previous episodes, I've explained the expanse of my family tree. Um, so this is, this is she's she's uh, her name is Jess and we'll be talking a bit about. Kind of like how high school bullies affect your mental health, how also just your home environment adds to it.

[00:01:40] And then, you know, once you find a space to become more yourself, how that almost benefits your mental health and your self-esteem and your perception of yourself. So I know I can speak for myself where. In high school, I almost felt like I had to be a certain way. I was, you know, straight A student involved in sports and culture and all those things.

[00:02:09] Um, and so went on quite an extreme journey, post high school to try and find myself. Experimenting was different types of jobs, experimenting with different types of clothes, which I view as, you know, a form of self-expression experimenting with, you know, different activities. I tried, you know, partying and seeing if that scene was for me, just, you know, trying to figure myself out.

[00:02:38] And I think, you know, when we, when we feel a lot of. Pressure and stress and expectation to be a certain way, whether it's something we put on ourselves or whether it's something we feel other people put on us. I think we, we, we kind of lose opportunities to be. I don't want to say authentic selves, cause that sounds kak wanky, but like just to be a truer version of ourselves or just to be more ourselves, not even a version of it, just to be who we are.

[00:03:15] And so I'm hoping in this episode, you know, my sister can share a bit about her journey with mental health and how. You know, her finding ways to express who she is and communicate who she is through different mediums has given her a better sense of, you know, what's the word, like, I don't know, self esteem or self acceptance, or, you know, that kind of, that kind of vibe.

[00:03:47] Um, so hi Jess,

[00:03:51] Jess: [00:03:51] hello SureEyes: how are you? Jess: I am doing fantastic.

[00:03:57] SureEyes: [00:03:57] We have a joke in the family that like all of us are the shady sister, but I honestly think you're the shadiest.

[00:04:03] Jess: [00:04:03] Well, 100%

[00:04:08] SureEyes: [00:04:08] to your face, at least it's not behind your back.

[00:04:14] So Jess, I would, I guess we can start the conversation with. You know, maybe sharing a bit about some of your mental health challenges. Like what are some of the things you struggle with? And then I guess the second part would be, when did you start noticing that these were things that were problematic to you?

[00:04:36] Jess: [00:04:36] Okay. Okay. Wow. It definitely. So one of my biggest struggles has been social anxiety. I definitely think that started in high school, for sure. Just the thought of social interaction.

[00:04:57] SureEyes: [00:04:57] Sometimes you don't even have lus for me and I'm like family.

[00:05:02] Jess: [00:05:02] Yes.

[00:05:05] SureEyes: [00:05:05] I don’t take it personally. I'm just saying the extent, like imagine with strangers, you know,

[00:05:10] Jess: [00:05:10] Yeah. Yeah, 100%. I was actually listening to what you were saying about your high school experience. And I was thinking, wow, we really went into different directions. SureEyes: Why do you say that?

[00:05:25] Jess: Well, I think for starters I tried to blend in, I did not want to stand out. I did not want to go to these sports. Like when that bell rings for home time, I was out those gates,

[00:05:46] um,

[00:05:48] SureEyes: [00:05:48] Just for context like how long ago did you finish high school?

[00:05:53] Jess: [00:05:53] Um, I was the class of 2017, so I’m trying to do the math in my head

[00:06:03] SureEyes: [00:06:03] Sjoe. This part of you escaping the school gates. So does that math?

[00:06:11] Jess: [00:06:11] Yeah. I think it’s four years now

[00:06:12] SureEyes: [00:06:12] And so how did you like, so for someone like me and you know how I am, right. I'm like super extroverted. I have no qualms speaking to anyone I'm just like always talking. So for me to kind of imagine feeling socially anxious is quite a foreign concept for me. I can understand anxiety in general because that's something I struggle with, but.

[00:06:38] I don't really understand that anxiety being triggered by social interactions.

[00:06:46] Jess: [00:06:46] Um, I best way I can describe it is it is I want to link it to being like an introvert, but my thing is I don't classify myself as an introvert because I can be out there and interact now. But back then. I, yeah, I wasn't sure.

[00:07:09] SureEyes: [00:07:09] So what was it about like, cause you're also mixed race, right?

[00:07:13] So like your mom's white and your dad's coloured. Yeah. So was it all like what? So if I think about my experience with like mixed race kids from university university vibes that some of them like, just didn't know where they fit in, in general. So like, was that something that also impacted you or did that like add to your social anxiety?

[00:07:36] Jess: [00:07:36] Oh, 100%. I think it's awful. It's like the whole thing of, um, trying to. You know how in high school you have your cliques, but the people, you know, your groups and your friends. And I just, I never knew where I belonged because there was the smart Afrikaans kids and, you know, there was, there was just so many different cliques and I think being mixed race, I, you know, that's your identity in a way.

[00:08:06] It's like we are. And I tried to suppress it. There in high school, you know, just so that I could fit in, I didn't celebrate my, what made me unique and those kinds of things. Like, I don't want to draw any attention to that. So I straightened my head and all of those things just to fit in. Um, but it did actually give me like a lot of anxiety, not knowing where I fit in, if that makes sense

[00:08:30] SureEyes: [00:08:30] It does make sense, I think like we have a natural tendency as people to like, Gravitate towards things we identify with.

[00:08:42] Right? So like I had that struggle in a different way because I'm a dark coloured. I'm not a light-skinned coloured. And so like, and then I sound like this, I don't even sound coloured. And then it's like, you know, so initially like our very basic. Um, forms of interaction with people come around, things that we have in common and like at a very basic form, it's the kind of visual things that we have in common.

[00:09:10] So like, like you were saying, the clicks is like all the pretty girls are together all the smart people are together, you know, at a very superficial level. That's what people like form groups or cliques is like just superficially, what do we have in common?

[00:09:23] Jess: [00:09:23] Yeah

[00:09:26] SureEyes: [00:09:26] And I can see how that would like.

[00:09:28] Create anxiety. When you feel like there isn't an, aesthetic, so to speak, whether it's intellect or, you know, whether it's, uh, uh, uh, a language. So like, you know, the Afrikaans folk or whether it's, you know, the colour of your skin, like I can see how not being able to fit in would like cause anxiety.

[00:09:50] Jess: [00:09:50] Yeah, definitely.

[00:09:52] I think we just all have this need to affiliate. Something that I've noticed is when you're in high school, there's this thing called the spotlight effect where it feels as though all eyes on you. And third, if that makes sense, but that is definitely something I experienced. I just constantly felt watched and, uh, no, this is not fun.

[00:10:18] SureEyes: [00:10:18] And so what do you like, when do you think that kind of. Experience, right? Like your experience of being socially anxious. When did that start changing? Cause was that your entire high school experience?

[00:10:36] Jess: [00:10:36] I would definitely describe my high school experience as being one anxiety bomb. Like I was constantly on the verge of exploding

[00:10:44] if I can put it like that,

[00:10:47] SureEyes: [00:10:47] how, like, how did it, how did it affect you physically? So like, I know when I get anxiety attacks, it's like the first thing that I'm starting to feel anxious is my heart rate just goes, like, I just start feeling my heart just beating so fast. And it's like, and then my brain starts getting flooded with like all, cause I have anxiety about things going wrong and not being able to like stop them or not being able to like, do something about it or not being able to prevent it or, you know, and so then it's like, my head just starts creating all these scenarios about what could potentially be wrong.

[00:11:24] And then I can like, and then it's like, then I just start feeling like I can't breathe. So that's my progression. I don't know how it is for you.

[00:11:33] Jess: [00:11:33] I can definitely relate to that. Um, for me, I feel like when that anxiety creeps on you, it's like, I can feel it like in my chest. It's almost like you're in the cartoons where you can see the heart beat.

[00:11:49] Like it felt like you could see my heart. Definitely the sweaty palms and just like, there was just like this beating in my ears. I can't describe it. It's like suddenly everything was becomes muffled. Um, but I know one of my worst physical symptoms is definitely like nausea and stuff. Cause I think I keep my anxiety in my stomach.

[00:12:13] If that makes sense. Like when it gets bad, I can feel that nausea. Like, especially before a test or a speech or something. I, I promise you every speech that I've ever given. Like back in high school I had to throw up before, or after it's just,

[00:12:36] SureEyes: [00:12:36] it's weird how like when you experienced mental health stuff in high school, people are just like, oh, you're being such an angsty teen. Like, you're just be like, what do you possibly have to feel anxious about? Like, life is so easy for you. Like, you know, and it's, it's weird because it's probably. So, if I look back, you know, teens are super confusing because you're not a kid, but you're not an adult.

[00:13:04] So like already, you don't know where you fit in, like, you don't like, what am I now? You know, and you don't really have that. Okay. At least let me know how it was for you. But like, for me, I didn't have that independence. To create an identity. It was still very much forced from like parents or school or it was, there was no like independence or freedom for me.

[00:13:34] Jess: [00:13:34] Yeah. To like explore your identity and those kinds of things. Definitely I hear that.

[00:13:39] SureEyes: [00:13:39] Exactly. So, so as soon as you left high school, do you feel like, like when did you start noticing your social anxiety becoming more manageable before we even get there? I suppose how in high school? Like, did you know it was called social anxiety?

[00:13:56] Jess: [00:13:56] I didn't actually know much about it. I didn't even know. There wasn't really much education on mental health. If I can put it like that, like it wasn't spoken about, um, or, you know, educated, like into whatever we were learning at school. Um, so I didn't really know about it. I think I had a conversation with someone it's always the English teacher.

[00:14:21] I had a conversation with the English teacher and she was just showing me, um, these spoken poetry videos about mental health. And I was like, whoa, wait a minute. I can relate to that. And I just remember reading up on it and I was like, whoa. Okay. But I did not self-diagnose cause I know that's the mistake. So. I, when I realised it was getting bad to the point of not wanting to get out of bed and socialise with people, I seek professional help.

[00:14:55] And that's what I learned about social anxiety and all these things.

[00:15:00] SureEyes: [00:15:00] But now this is, this is the thing about mental health, right? It's like if you were down with the flu and didn’t want to get out of bed, at least you would know it's the flu, but because you didn't know that this is actually like an illness that you can manage or like a challenge that you can manage.

[00:15:20] Did you just think it was how you were like, did you just think, fuck, this is my life.

[00:15:24] Jess: [00:15:24] Yeah, definitely. And I never knew if anyone else felt like this awkward, there was something wrong with me. Like I thought this was a bad, bad thing, you know, it's just agh, this is just the way I am.

[00:15:41] SureEyes: [00:15:41] What kind of, when you say professional help, did you, did you, did you go to talk therapy or were you like on meds were you, what was your like coping toolbox?

[00:15:51] Like what were you looking at? Yeah. What were the things that you did that you, so you said you reached out to professionally and then how did you start building, you know, coping skills to help manage the social anxiety?

[00:16:06] Jess: [00:16:06] Um, in terms of reaching out, I'll say it was like a trial and error thing. I tried various, um, things like going to church, you know, churches offer therapy.

[00:16:17] I tried that, that did not work for me. Um, and I mean to highlights like where I found where I got actually proper help, um, I was admitted into, uh, Denma, I don't know what it's called. Is it a mental facility? I want to use the right terminology.

[00:16:41] SureEyes: [00:16:41] Terminology is irrelevant. Right? So you kind of like went somewhere where, there was like specialised treatment, like medicine, specialized medical treatment.

[00:16:52] Jess: [00:16:52] Yeah. I stayed there for about a week. There was obviously professional psychologists there to talk, to like start helping you, giving you the coping mechanisms. And I think that's where I started hearing about like more detail about my, don’t want to call it a condition, but just my situation and what I was going through.

[00:17:14] And when I went from there, once I had like an idea of what I was dealing with, so things like bipolar depression, social anxiety, I could start finding coping mechanisms based on that, you know, targeted at what I was dealing with.

[00:17:32] SureEyes: [00:17:32] But this is the thing. People think that people think that like giving it a name means you're giving it more power, but I almost feel like spending the time to understand it empowers you to deal with it better.

[00:17:50] Jess: [00:17:50] 100%. That's how I feel. I feel exactly the same. It's not that I want to label myself as something. It's more just knowing what I'm dealing with and, you know, thing, getting the tools to cope.

[00:18:05] SureEyes: [00:18:05] Yeah. And so since you left high school, like how, how has kind of the bipolar depression and the kind of social anxiety, how have that and linking back to you

[00:18:19] Being able to be more yourself, right. So not feeling fully yourself in your teens, and then finding ways to express yourself. Like how has that journey been?

[00:18:34] Jess: [00:18:34] Like way better leaving high school. Cause then it was university and university is nothing like high school. There's like that social pressure to fit in. It's like it disappears. There’s no clicks. There’s no need to present yourself a certain way. You know, you wear your own clothes and you can start buying your hair and experimenting with, you know, how you look and I'd say.

[00:19:02] Definitely like was a game changer. I mean, they're getting to, um, how would I put it, explore who I am and how I want to present myself. I just remember, I went through so many hair colour phases

[00:19:20] SureEyes: [00:19:20] every day, girl every day I was just like, oh, now I’ve got hair. Oh no, I don't have hair. Oh no, no. It's blonde. Like just being able to change your aesthetic and play almost

[00:19:38] Jess: [00:19:38] it's this whole thing of like, you suddenly start attracting your vibe.

[00:19:44] Like people who, you know, they see you and they're like, whoa, you know, I get you, and you see them? And you're like, whoa, I get you. That was university like for me

[00:20:02] SureEyes: [00:20:02] I think it also opens your world, like in high school, how many people were in your school? Like 300 people.

[00:20:10] Jess: [00:20:10] Yeah, let's go with 300.

[00:20:12] SureEyes: [00:20:12] I don't even know. Right. I'm just making up numbers. And then you go into the real world where they're like 3000 people and it's like, oh, the shitty people I was around all this time

[00:20:22] are not the only representation of people in the world.

[00:20:24] Jess: [00:20:24]...

Putting the Human in Human Resources

Candice Nolan — Mon, 26 Jul 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

[00:00:42] SureEyes: [00:00:42] This is quintessentially mental the podcast. And I'm your host SureEyes. Hey y'all Hey darlings. How you doing? How's this week been, I think, you know, every week, reflecting on the week's episode that I'd like to share with you guys. I kind of think about things that are really close to my heart, that's close to my level of experience.

[00:01:07] I do think that I shouldn't do the consulting thing and talk about shit that I don't know. I should talk from a place of knowledge and a place of experience. Um, as you know, my mental health journey has been, you know, you can't kind of keep your, your issues at the door. You can't, you know, you can't just pretend that

[00:01:29] what's going on with you emotionally and mentally and psychologically, it doesn't exist all of a sudden because you're at work. Um, and so, you know, my, my interactions with people in the HR profession in places I've worked has been quite strained because I always felt like you can't really show who you are, especially from a mental health perspective in a work environment, especially not to an HR professional, because then you think, am I going to get a disciplinary hearing?

[00:02:04] Am I going to get a warning later? Am I going to, you know, have opportunities pass me by because I don't have. Um, I don't know that I might be viewed as incompetent or, um, you know, not capable. Um, and so I, I haven't always had very genuine relationships with HR professionals in the context that I've worked in, especially when it came to my mental health.

[00:02:33] It was only in recent years. Where I kind of didn't see it as, you know, stopped judging myself and so felt more comfortable to be open with my HR colleagues. So what I thought for today's episode, I may invite a dear friend of mine. Her name is Leighzanne. Um, we call her Leigh um, she is an HR professional. We've known each other for years.

[00:03:01] We were basically friends from the time we were in our respective in our mother's wombs. I was going to say that we were in each other's wounds imagine, but, um, she's joining me for today's episode. You know, our parents go way back. Um, we've we, we know each other quite intimately in terms of, you know, having been friends for basically our whole lives.

[00:03:26] Um, and she's an HR professional, so I thought, okay, let me have this conversation with her. Um, and also see if she brings herself to the table when she works as an HR professional. So, Hey Leigh, how are you doing?

[00:03:43] Leigh Hartley: [00:03:43] Thank you so much for having me. I'm good and you. I'm good. I'm good.

[00:03:47] SureEyes: [00:03:47] I'm good. Thanks for being open to this experience.

[00:03:50] I know you're not you're you still asked me how honest can I be? And I was like jo, bra let it rip. Yeah.

[00:04:00] Leigh Hartley: [00:04:00] Well, we'll have to see how the train of thought goes today, but yeah, I'll try my best.

[00:04:06] SureEyes: [00:04:06] So, so Lee, I guess as an, as like an opening. Kind of segue into the conversation as just, you know, an opener. Would you say that you're someone who is aware of, or has challenges with your own like mental health or mental wellness?

[00:04:28] Leigh Hartley: [00:04:28] So, you know, I think if you really speak to numerous people all over the place, I think that everybody, at some point in their lives has, um, issues with mental health and mental wellness. Um, some people, I think that journey is a little bit longer than others. Um, but I think that it is something that is part of every single one of us.

[00:04:47] You know, our constructs and who we are as people. Um, and in terms of myself, I think that my journey hasn't been very long, but I have had instances where I've struggled. Um, we I've had issues where I've had to also just take a step back and be like, okay, how am I feeling about things? How am I doing mentally?

[00:05:08] What do I need to do for myself in order to make sure that I am still okay.

[00:05:13] SureEyes: [00:05:13] I think you raise an important point, right? I think this idea mental health or mental wellness only affects people who've been formally diagnosed. Is false, right. So like I'm someone who's been formally diagnosed. I see a psychiatrist.

[00:05:29] I see. There's also a therapist. Um, which is why I don't see a psychologist. I've been hospitalised a few times, but like I'm in the category of you have an official diagnosis, you are being medically treated like. And so people think, unless you, in that category, mental wellness or mental health doesn't affect you, but like,

[00:05:54] So like, what would you say, you know, have been those challenges, if you are open to talking about it, like you don't have to, if you don't want to. Um, but I know when I speak to some of my friends, you know, it's very much around anxiety, depression. Like those are very much the common factors of things that, you know, people struggle with as an ordinary human experience, you know?

[00:06:20] Leigh Hartley: [00:06:20] Right. Yeah. So, I mean, I think for myself, SureEyes: you were like

[00:06:28] thanks for making me open this can of worms. Leigh Hartley: Look, I haven't paid for therapy recently, so maybe this is the opportunity. I'm not sure. Um, but yeah, I think that, you know, especially in the times that we're living in at the moment, I think that we're all dealing with a lot of stress, a lot of pressure. Anxiety around our jobs, anxiety around our families, anxiety about health in general and our mental health.

[00:06:54] Um, and definitely for myself. I mean, I think I, I have definitely had my struggles, I think probably, uh, over the last maybe six or so years, I've actively noticed it and marked it as, okay. Well, you know, there's a little bit of anxiety coming through your, you have some stuff that you were dealing with in terms of depression.

[00:07:14] So, yeah, I've definitely been on that journey. I mean, a while back, I was also on some antidepressants, not at the moment, but I have gone down that road before and had that journey as well as an individual. So, I mean, I think, you know, we have this joke that it's like, everybody seems to be on anti depressants nowadays, and it's not something to laugh about, but it's.

[00:07:36] You know, it makes us think about where is everybody in terms of a mental health space? Like, are we doing okay? Um, is it just that people are a lot more open to speaking about these things that we know what everybody else is going through? Um, but yeah, I mean, As I say, we all have that time in our lives where we feel like we are not managing and we're not able to cope that we're not able to deal with work, that we are also feeling anxious.

[00:08:00] And I mean, I'm speaking both from a personal perspective and from an employee perspective as well. I feel the same way in my job too. So. You know, earlier you spoke about, you know, the strained relationship between yourself and HR. And I think it's because we still very much, you know, in the working space where we have to put up a front that, you know, no matter what's going on in our lives, we can deal with it.

[00:08:24] We can still perform, it's not going to affect anything. And that's kind of the expectation we hold each other to, but it's an unrealistic expectation because I mean, we're all human and we're all going through things. So I think it's really about finding that middle ground about being like. How do I bring this human side of myself to work, but at the same time, still deliver on the expectations that are waiting for me within the work context,

[00:08:51] SureEyes: [00:08:51] But this is the thing right so I think you raised an important point. I think you've raised this whole, the two things, the whole putting up a front so like, yada, yada, I'm going through this thing. That's actually really stressful in my life, but don't worry. I'll still deliver. Right. But then in the same breath, you're saying y'all bring your whole self and as long as you can still deliver.

[00:09:12] Yeah. You know, and I think that in itself, like how, how comfortable, you know, at the same time they think do, do you have the honest conversation and say, yo. I'm actually going through a serious life crisis, whatever that might be, whether it's a breakup stroke divorce, or maybe, you know, I'm just having some family issues or whatever it is, right.

[00:09:39] Like there's something that is de-stabilising me and is, uh, is, is going to affect my delivery. Do you then say, okay, shap, I'll take some time off work. And then, you know, is there that risk that you, that you, the person with issues and can’t be trusted on projects, you know, or like, You know what I mean? Like I think it's, I think it's so tricky because at the end of the day we, we work.

[00:10:08] Yes. We can like our jobs and love our jobs, but calling a spade, a spade we work because we need to eat and we need to live somewhere and we need to be clothed and we need to, you know, there are these necessities that require financial input and we get that from work. And so there is this like pressure, I think, to.

[00:10:29] To hide where we might fall short from a work perspective. I think that's the reality. And so like, how do you, how do you have this, like ja let’s normalize mental health at work, let's like talk about the mental health issues. Let's, you know, how do you do that? When there’s this fear that my job might be taken away from me.

[00:10:55] And so my livelihood. And so my ability to feed myself, clothe myself, house myself.

[00:11:04] Leigh Hartley: [00:11:04] Yeah. So I think the main thing is that, and I, this is what I see quite often is that people, uh, number one, are not aware of where they are at, uh, from a mental perspective, right? So they may feel, I'm not feeling so great. I'm going through these things.

[00:11:21] But I think that as human beings, we always try and push forward and push through and just be like, oh, it doesn't matter. I'll put that on the side. I just need to focus on deadlines, et cetera. So I think what's really important is for people to acknowledge how various things in their lives are affecting them.

[00:11:36] Is it something that where work actually provides a safe. Like a safety area for you where you can go, you can leave those troubles behind focused on work, and then you pick it back up again. When you go back home or is it something that is actively affecting your work? Um, and I think that we, we all know when we are not performing to the level that we ordinarily would, you know, we feel like certain things are slipping.

[00:12:00] We forgetting to do certain things, et cetera. So if you're actually, you know, seeing that it's affecting your work and your delivery, The best thing you can possibly do is to have a conversation with somebody because there's nothing worse than people because everybody's seeing how your performance is slipping, but we don't actually know what the reason for it is.

[00:12:20] Is it just that you're not interested in doing your job anymore? Um, you know, is it that you are experiencing some kind of challenge? This is something we can assist you with. So, I mean, the thing that we always talk about is communication, communication. Is really key, but you can only communicate when you are being self-aware and reflecting about how your emotions are actually impacting the work that you need to do.

[00:12:42] And then once you had that conversation, I think that people will really appreciate the fact that you're being upfront and honest about how certain things are affecting your performance and that you take the time that you may possibly need, just to kind of pull things together and get it back onto the right track.

[00:12:58] Um, as opposed to being in denial about it and trying to hide it. But it's still, you know, Impacting things in a certain way that that doesn't bode well for your career. So, I mean, I would say, you know, if it's a, short-term kind of solution, a short-term situation that you're going through with, you know, it's something that will pass, have that conversation.

[00:13:19] Maybe take some leave, um, you know, pull yourself towards yourself so that you can actually still come back and deliver. The best possible way you can, if it's something that's a little bit more long-term and you require a lot more help, a lot more assistance in all of that. You know, as I said, it's best to maybe communicate with somebody that you trust within the working space.

[00:13:40] Um, that's from a more like an official perspective, whether it's your HR person or your manager or whoever it is, and have that conversation, um, so that they also know what you're going through. And so that various structures can then be put into place to assist you. Um, and it's true. I mean, corporate may not.

[00:13:58] Necessarily have all of those structures in place. But I think with people being more honest and having these conversations with, you know, people like HR and all of that, we get to understand the situation better. And then we can start putting those structures in place within the working environment,

[00:14:16] SureEyes: [00:14:16] yeah, I think, you know, I have had experience with.

[00:14:19] And I don't know if it's also, you know, the culture of the place that you work in. And so, like, I I've had experiences where the team that I was a part of were very understanding and very supportive of the fact that I needed to take a break. And I think because my track record kind of spoke for itself.

[00:14:38] So up until that point, I had been performing, I had been delivering and I kind of say, look, this thing that's happening in my life. So bearing in mind, it took a few falling off the horse and losing my shit and other ways to go, oh, there might be a better way of healing.

[00:15:01] Might be a better way of like managing it from a work perspective.

[00:15:03] And so I think you're right. It takes self-awareness and it takes maturity and it takes, it takes knowing yourself. Right. And then also I think. When you, when the, when there are spaces where these conversations are a bit more normal, it's like, I remember my, one of my managers saying to me, yeah, but if you had the flu, you wouldn't be hiding it.

[00:15:25] She'd be like, yo, I'm sick. I have the flu wiped out for the next week. And no one would question you, you know? And so I think, I think, you know, that's also part of it is the fact that we have our own. Judgment and stigma. And ja, but why are we struggling with this? And is it a real thing? I think we have our own, like things that we put onto it that makes us not think that make us think less of ourselves because we're struggling with it.

[00:16:00] And to know that, you know, there are places, like what you're speaking about, where HR is open to providing that support, given that we are more open, I think is encouraging.

[00:16:13] So given, given that, like, do you find that the people you work with given the more open and acceptance of like mental health challenges, being something that affects people and their delivery, have you like, do you see it as being more I don’t wanna say .

[00:16:32] tolerated because that's the wrong word, but it's like, is there more of an acceptance that this is also a type of illness and I'm not going to judge you if you're sick because of that.

[00:16:45] Leigh Hartley: [00:16:45] So I am definitely seeing more acceptance, but that is that acceptance is balanced by a responsibility. So the responsibility is on the individual, um, from a work perspective for you to get help. So if you've identified that you have these issues, um, I think from a work perspective, we expect that you are seeing somebody that you are going for therapy, that you are, you know, taking medication that you are looking after yourself as well, so that you are doing everything that you need to do from your side to ensure that.

[00:17:20] You know, that aspect of the self is stabilised. So you are then still able to produce and work in the right kind of way that we needed because at the end of the day, you know, um, every single organisation is there to make money. Yeah, and they need the, the, uh, the employee to bring their best selves to work.

[00:17:39] And we know it's not always possible. And you can't always do it a hundred percent, but if you know that there's something going on with you, I think the work expectation is that you find a way to sort it out. And not that we won't give you the time or the acceptance or that management, that this is what's going on, but we also need to see that look, you know, this happening to me.

[00:18:00] Finding ways. And I'm trying to find solutions. I mean, very similar to your example that you use, but if you not feeling well, uh, you know, I know there's a different kind of culture at the moment where you're almost like shown as being the hero. If you come to work sick, but the expectation is that you take some time off.

[00:18:17] That's why we have sick leave. Um, we take medication and you rest so that by the time you come back, you already hit the ground running.

[00:18:26] SureEyes: [00:18:26] I think you've, I think you've raised an important point, this idea of being a hero. Right. And it's like, so either you have to feel, you have to prove to yourself that it's something, you know?

[00:18:42] What irritates me, when people come to work sick and I'm just like, you're just going to infect everyone. Like why, why. You know, even if you want to be the hero, be the hero from home, like work from home or like, or just, you know, as you say, take the sick leave. And I think, I think the more open we are, or the more, the more we have these kind of open discussions, with the people we work with to say I'm not well, I'm taking the steps to deal with it.

[00:19:14] I just need your support in giving me the space to do that. And then that would be, I think that's really encouraging. I think, you know, I guess my...

Sippin' On Gin & Juice

Candice Nolan — Mon, 19 Jul 2021 08:00:00 +0200

This week's Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast explores addiction as a mental illness. SureEyes chats to DavidP AKA David Astronomy (because he likes to get high).

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] you're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by SureEyes. Please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness. Hey, y'all, you're listening to quintessentially mental: the podcast and I'm your host. Today's episode is what a tricky one, you know, it's it's about addiction.

[00:00:39] Um, and how addiction is actually a mental health disorder. I don't think people realise this. Um, the title of this podcast is called sippin on gin and juice. an ode or an adage to the old rap song Snoop song. So, but I think, think, you know, it's, it's act given the culture we live in where so many things have been normalised, you know, where things like overeating or over-drinking or, um, , or, you know, all these different things where, you know, As long as it's legal, we're almost okay with it.

[00:01:30] You know, and it's almost like we view addiction as only something that pertains to illegal substances. So today my guest who will be joining, meaning me, um, is a very good friend of mine. He goes by David P. Um, we've been friends probably since about. 2017, I think, um, not realising that we actually have mutual friends, um, in our past lives.

[00:02:06] Yeah. We just didn't realise it. When I was living in Cape town, I was actually friends with people who are quite close to him. Um, you know, Dave and I have partied together. We've done a lot of, you know, drinking together, a lot of champagne. And I don't think that we. Or I ever realised he had, you know, addiction problems until

[00:02:32] he opened up to me about it later on in our friendship. And, you know, I he's been in and out of rehab. He's been in and out of in a, which is narcotics anonymous. He's being in an out of AA. Um, And, you know, it's not something that I've judged him for. It's not something that has determined the course of our friendship.

[00:02:55] I think, you know, obviously I I've been impacted by the, the choices he's made, where either I hadn’t, you know, maybe the only time I got to see him was when he was in rehab or. Otherwise, he, you know, he wouldn't speak to me because he didn't want to lie to me. So hopefully we'll be able to, you know, have a bit of a in-depth conversation about addiction and how it's actually a mental illness.

[00:03:28] Um, something I didn't realise. So stay tuned and we'll be, we'll be chatting to David soon.

[00:03:37] Spudcaster: [00:03:37] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcasts your life with baobulb.org.

[00:03:55] SureEyes: [00:03:55] Welcome back to quintessentially mental.

[00:03:57] I'm joined by one of my very good friends, David P or David astronomy.

[00:04:06] He, before we started recording, he, he, uh, made it very clear that, you know, we it's part of, you know, just an AA. Protocols that we never refer to people part of that community as they full name and surname, just to protect obviously the anonymity. Um, yeah. Hey David, how you doing?

[00:04:41] DavidP: [00:04:41] Yeah, I'm good. Cherize how are you?

[00:04:47] SureEyes: [00:04:47] Yeah, I’m tired. Like we've been saying just default settings of mom of a three month old. DavidP: Yeah, for sure. That and having mental illness, SureEyes: mental wellness challenges. DavidP: Am I allowed to swear?

[00:04:57] SureEyes: Yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a free country. I'm sure you can.

[00:05:02] DavidP: [00:05:02] Yeah, fuck this like mental wellness. Like I get it that we're trying to turn the, you know, the frame, it different in terms of mental wellness and stuff, but like there's not enough fucking. Meditation in the world. That's going to rescue you from clinical depression.

[00:05:19] In my humble opinion

[00:05:22] SureEyes: [00:05:22] I think, I think it's, it's, it's day dependent right. So the days when I'm just like, oh my gosh, I totally have a handle on this. This is amazing. I'm making so much progress. And then the other days when I'm just like, why am I even in therapy? Like, what is the point.

[00:05:42] DavidP: [00:05:42] True, true. I mean, it is a daily thing.

[00:05:46] So my, my sponsor, um, in the fellowship, um, he, uh, he's, he's got me doing a daily gratitude list. And I remember when I was younger, my grandmother always used to give us for Christmas, these, these little notepads, and these were meant to be gratitude. Um, I would, I just come see the, I was like, this is bullshit.

[00:06:14] This doesn't help at all. Now I do a daily gratitude list and 10 things. I'm grateful. To, to be able to have, or to feel, and then five things I'm grateful. I'm grateful not to be using drugs today. I'm grateful not to be stealing and grateful not to be lying to my friends and family now. And it does actually set the day up there.

[00:06:37] So yeah, I think I agree with you. It is day dependence.

[00:06:42] SureEyes: [00:06:42] Okay. So can we maybe say that maybe not fuck meditation in totality?

[00:06:48] DavidP: [00:06:48] Quite right. Quite right. It's a, it's a, it's a package deal.

[00:06:58] SureEyes: [00:06:58] So I think just to, you know, re you know, catch up on what the intro to this episode is, we we're, we're kind of looking at addiction and mental health. Like I was saying to David, you know, I don't have, as I do at these episodes, you know, I don't have a set of interview questions or, you know, I don't have a plan in my head, um, on paper it's really just about having quite a natural, organic kind of real conversation.

[00:07:26] Um, so I guess one of the things that. People don't seem to understand or people without addiction or people who do let me not speak for other people. One thing I had to come to understand was addiction is a mental health illness. I didn't know that.

[00:07:45] DavidP: [00:07:45] Yeah. So it's actually recognised both by the WHO and in the, uh, the DSM five, um, as a, as a mental illness, it's called a substance abuse disorder.

[00:07:59] Um, they are interesting the interrelationships, right? So between the, according to the DSM right. You cannot be diagnosed with bipolar two, which, which is what I am, um, unless you've been free of substances for, um, 12 months because the, the drugs do so much to the brain and that, that it can, um, Give you the symptoms that looked like it.

[00:08:37] Yeah. That looked like depression that looked like, which I found quite quite interesting, but yeah, as you say, it is a, it's a recognised, um, mental illness, according to the WHO and the DSM five.

[00:08:50] SureEyes: [00:08:50] So, I mean, that's quite interesting or that, you know, you say that. You can only really be diagnosed with an official kind of mental health disorder that isn't a substance related once you've been clean for 12 months.

[00:09:06] Have you so currently. You know, how, how you dealing with being clean. You know, you mentioned earlier that one of the things you're grateful not to be doing is you're, you're grateful not to be using drugs today. So like, how are you finding the day-to-day of staying clean that eventually builds up to a week, a month, you know, six months, a year, et cetera, you know, how are you finding that?

[00:09:34] DavidP: [00:09:34] Yeah. No. Well, that's tough. And I want to take a, I want to take a little step back though, and just, just talk about personally, why I think I started using then abusing and then becoming dependent on drugs.

[00:09:51] SureEyes: [00:09:51] It's great that you start there because well, one of the things I'm meaning to ask you before we move on this tangent was how did you even, I mean, drugs in our culture now is such a casual thing, right?

[00:10:03] Like you go to a party and people are taking lines of cocaine, or they're popping ecstasy. You're taking MBMA, it's almost normalised, normalize quite a recreational thing, you know? And like at what point do you go, oh, this is actually a problem.

[00:10:19] DavidP: [00:10:19] Yeah. Um, so look, it's interesting that you said that it's it's recreational and normalised.

[00:10:27] I think drugs have always been used recreationally and for 80% of the population, they can. Smoking joints they can, and they can smoke a joint every day for a couple of years, um, and call himself stoners or whatever they can take. Uh, MBMA on the weekends, they can do lines of cocaine. Um, they probably won't go near hardest stuff.

[00:10:51] But that's because they are able to use it recreationally. And in the big book of alcoholics, alcoholics anonymous, they talk about what the moderate drinkers and the people that are heavy drinkers. And those are people who can stop. They can stop after one drink. Or 10 drinks, or if there's a health scare or the partner is not happy or work is suffering or whatever, they're able to just say, you know what, I'm not having another drink.

[00:11:18] I'm not having another joint. I'm not having another line. And they're able to stop in my case. And with the case of addicts, I'm completely powerless over that. I have no, I know that I should stop. I know that my life is fucking up. Um, my friends and family who had deserted me, I'm pretty much bankrupt.

[00:11:39] I mean, I've slept in the park a couple of nights. Right. And I still don't stop using drugs because I'm now dependent. And I think that's the difference between addicts and non-addicts. Um, so yeah, drugs are normal. I like your recreational use of drugs is, is normalized and it's fun. And I think that's fine for most people.

[00:12:05] There's some of us though. You will figure it out. Um, you'll come to that place where you know that you can no longer stop. And then that's when you’re an addict

[00:12:20] SureEyes: [00:12:20] as people you don't know what's going to happen to your body. Right. When you do take one drink or 10 or one line or a gram, you know, like you don't know what the reaction is going to be with your body and your brain. And so it's interesting that you say, okay, cool. Once I realised that I can no longer stop.

[00:12:46] And so it's almost. You know, you can't preempt these things. You can't say. I mean, I guess in my case, I don't know about you and maybe this will be an interesting question. In my case, I come from a family of like I would say alcoholics, right where my grandfather, maternal grandfather was an alcoholic. Um, my mom's siblings have these problems, my cousins, I think I have an alcohol abuse problem.

[00:13:11] So, you know, since I fell pregnant and stopped drinking, I can definitely see the change in my mental health, seeing it, you know, now that I'm not drinking anymore. Um, Contributing, are there things that make you more predisposed, um, that you could almost preempt and say, okay, you know, given this context, given the situation, whatever it might be, I am more at risk.

[00:13:44] Like, do you think that, do you think there are markers, or is it just like a lucky package? You don't know what you're going to get.

[00:13:52] DavidP: [00:13:52] There certainly is an influencing factor from a family history. Um, but that can go back apparently seven generations. So if seven generations ago you had an addict in the family, and then there was nothing, you could be the next one.

[00:14:12] Um, so that, that lucky package has a long, long expiry date. Um, but. That's not the only, the only factor. Right? So the, the, the theory around addiction is that there's a couple of causes for it. One of them is, um, is the family history. Um, one of them is trauma. Um, another one is which I find quite interesting is like falsely hold held beliefs about things.

[00:14:45] SureEyes: [00:14:45] So if you kind of have a skewed version of like, you don't have a handle on reality, right so you kind of have. No, let me not assume. Maybe you can explain that one a bit more.

[00:14:55] DavidP: [00:14:55] Sure. So it's like, I should be the boss of this company. Um, or I'm always being persecuted. Um, or I need something I'm not good enough.

[00:15:11] I, I feel like if I don't take a line of cocaine, then I am not able to talk to people at parties or I'm not able to work long hours if I don't do a non-prescribed Ritalin. Um, and then the fourth factor and this, I think really ties in nicely here is mental health, mental illness. So in my case, I think I've got all four, I've got a family, I've got a family history.

[00:15:47] Um, of, and remember it doesn't have to be like drugs. And I want to come back to this about it being drugs or not. Does it have to be alcohol or drugs or whatever? There's things like food, these major food issues and like, uh, anorexia in my family. Um, as well as alcoholism. So that's, that's on the family history side on the, the, uh, trauma's style is, uh, we've got some of that, um, on the falsely whole beliefs side, certainly, um, you know, being a cisgender, heteronormative, white, south African, like there's certain things that I

[00:16:31] hold that are not true. And that I blame myself for that. I carry guilt about and that I have certain expectations about and things like having drugs, helped me manage that, and then finally, and for me, it's the biggest one is the mental health side. So I didn't start drinking early. I didn't start using drugs early, actually started quite late.

[00:16:54] Um, but once I'd found drugs, then I use them to manage. What eventually was diagnosed as major depressive disorder, bipolar two, um, and obsessive compulsive disorder. And I'd done that for like 14 years before I even went to see a psychiatrist for the first time.

[00:17:16] SureEyes: [00:17:16] Um, yeah, but the thing is. Going back to what you were saying around when you actually realise it's a problem.

[00:17:28] So maybe for those, this is kind of a question for those 14 years. Did you not know, you had a problem.

[00:17:40] Um, I'm just asking, like,

[00:17:47] when it comes to that, like self awareness, where you say, okay, I can no longer stop, which is, you know, the line between the addiction versus the non addiction, you know, what did it, did it, is that the amount of time it took you before you realise I have a problem?

[00:18:06] DavidP: [00:18:06] Yeah, that's wild and it is well, but I want to, yeah, let me talk a little bit about this and then I want to come back to the, the, the drugs themselves.

[00:18:19] It took me that long because I was what was called the high functioning addict. Right. So I was able to maintain a job, maintain relationships and so on until it got to the stage where I wasn't anymore. And I was about to lose my job or was being asked to leave my job. And none of my friends were around and people would cross to the other side of the road.

[00:18:41] And in fact, the people that really cared about me. And I remember, um, a friend of mine, Sarah, we were doing a line in a bathroom at a wedding in like the middle of the day, you know, like an inappropriate place and time. And she said to me, David, I think you have a drug problem. And it took me from that point. It probably took me a year.

[00:19:02] Denial denial, denial. Cause that is the first thing to get through. Is that denial, because I didn't want to believe that I couldn't drink and use drugs like normal people.

[00:19:15] SureEyes: [00:19:15] Yeah. And I think that's also something that I had to realise, right. Is that when my, when my psychiatrist suggested that perhaps some of my mental health issues are exacerbated by my abuse of alcohol, I was like

[00:19:31] No man, but I have a job

[00:19:38] but I I still had money, but I, you know, and, and eventually realising, oh, but this is how things are deteriorating, you know? And I think it takes a lot of, you know, I think there's a reason they say that, you know, the biggest step towards recovery is, you know, dealing with denial or getting over denial because it's such a strong barrier to recovery.

[00:20:06] Like denial you'll once you, once you, once you actually acknowledge, once you have that awareness, it's almost like you can't go back. You can't go back to being ignorant. You can't go back to. You know, because then when you start, when you, when you continue the behaviour with the self-awareness, it's like, then it's really choice, right?

[00:20:27] Like then you're really choosing. A certain action over another, or at least you're a lot more conscious of the decisions that you're making. It's no longer, I know I have a problem, but I'm still weak to it while I still don't have coping mechanisms to it, or I just don't know what to do about it. And I think that's, that's one of the, one of the biggest struggles that I don't know how you feel about it, but it's like, You know, people think that once they have self-awareness, all of a sudden their behaviours are just going to change.

[00:21:02] DavidP: [00:21:02] No,

[00:21:07] the basic, the basic texts like the Bible, I don’t want to use a religious word. But

[00:21:13] the book that we use in the fellowship is called the big book. And this book was written in 1936. Laying out the 12 steps and it talks there about saying self knowledge is not going to save you just because, you know, you're an alcoholic or whatever. It's not going to save you. And it's true. Like you need to get help outside of that.

[00:21:33] So, no, I agree with you completely. Um, and it's, it's an interesting thing, you know, you, you saying to your therapist nah but I've still got a car, still got a job and that like, I don't drink in the morning. Or I only drink wine or I'm not mainlining heroin, so then I'm not an addict. No, it doesn't matter.

[00:21:51] And that's what I want to. I do want to talk about this because it's an a, for me it's a huge, it was a huge realisation. It's that the drugs and alcohol are not the problem, the drugs and the alcohol were solution. No longer works, but I also exhibit that addict behaviour in so many other ways...

Different But The Same

Candice Nolan — Mon, 12 Jul 2021 12:00:00 +0200

In this week's episode of Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast, SureEyes sits down with Nicola Cooper to talk surviving trauma.

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] you're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by SureEyes, please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness. Hey, y'all this is quintessentially mental and I'm your host sureEyes. Today's episode is titled different, but the same.

[00:00:31] Inspired by my reflection on the, my many travels. Um, I've been fortunate enough to travel the globe extensively. There there's maybe one or two continents I haven't had the good fortune to be able to visit, but I've, I've traveled to at least 50 plus cities, um, around the. And one thing I've noticed and during all of my travels is that despite all of our differences, as people, despite, you know, our, um, culture, language, uh, aesthetic, climate, uh, interests, etcetera, you know, despite all of the differences that we might have, um, as, as individual.

[00:01:26] Fundamentally, we have a very shared, human experience and human need. We all, what I find, you know, having, having traveled and met people from different parts of the world, what I've noticed is we all have a very acute sense of wanting to belong, wanting to be loved. Um, A friend of mine always used to say, look, we all just want to eat, drink dance, have sex and be happy.

[00:02:00] Um, you know, and while those, those things might not be, be the same. I think it illustrates the point that as human beings we fundamentally have, um, you know, Shared experience where we can connect on, on things deeper than just, you know, the surface level. And so, and so what I want to uncover really during this episode is how.

[00:02:29] We connect as human beings. How do we connect, um, you know, using tools, especially in our current climate or rather in the COVID climate, you know, how do we use things like social media to connect? You know, the there's quite a few social media, mental health, um, accounts where positive messages are spread, where people are able to engage in conversation around mental health and mental wellbeing.

[00:03:05] And my question is, you know, does this make us feel more connected? Um, do we then feel like we have a shared experience? Do we feel less alone? Do we feel more supported? Um, I know that, you know, one of the, one of the core traits of human beings is that we are social beings. Um, growing up, my mom would always say to me, no, man is an island.

[00:03:33] Um, obviously in my child's mind, I was like, obviously we're not a piece of land surrounded by water, but as I. As I grew up and I understood the, um, you know, the, the meaning behind it, the fact that we weren't meant to be alone, we weren't mean to, um, navigate this world alone. That we, we do lean on other human beings for connection, for support.

[00:04:05] Similarly, I met a designer years ago in my, in my previous life. When I worked for design Indaba, I'm not, she's either a designer or kind of trained analysis at, um, analyst. And she mentioned, you know, she, she, she curated an exhibition with. It was called talking textiles. And through this narrative, she, she kind of pointed out that throughout our social media experience throughout our, our world becoming more virtual, becoming more technologically advanced, we were actually losing touch with what it means to be human, what it means to, um, You know, actually feel emotionally connected, um, being able to communicate with people verbally.

[00:05:01] Um, in-person non-verbally um, I think there's the, the stat that says that, you know, our, our nonverbal communication makes up 70% about total communication. And so this idea of the need to feel connected. Having social media platforms create connection, but at the same time potentially create a distance, you know, does does using social media to spread mental health, positive messages, help us feel more connected, less alone, and more supported.

[00:05:40] And I'm hoping my next guest will be able to, um, help us with that or kind of give us her perspective on it. Um, she goes by Nicola Coop on Instagram, um, and a lot of her account is really about sharing positive messages around supporting, strengthening your own mental health and wellbeing. And so after this break, we will chat to Nicola and hear from her, you know, what inspired her to, to start the account.

[00:06:18] Um, did she notice a difference in the way that she was engaging with people? Um, not only over the internet, but perhaps in her everyday life did. Did being more mentally positive or mental health positive, did that influence and affect her everyday relationships outside of that social media? Right. And so I think given, given, you know, the world that we exist in where, you know, it's, you know, w we're currently in a pandemic, um, where we are forced to become less social and more virtual, is this perhaps a way that we can remain connected and not feel so isolated.

[00:07:11] So we'll, we'll welcome Nicola in the next segment.

[00:07:15] Spudcaster: [00:07:15] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including apple and Google podcasts, podcasts your life with baobulb.org.

[00:07:34] SureEyes: [00:07:34] Welcome back to quintessentially mental.

[00:07:36] I'm joined by someone who I've just recently met like literally 20 minutes ago. Um, her name is Nicola. Hey, Nicola! How are you doing?

[00:07:46] Nicola: [00:07:46] I'm great. I'm so great. Thank you for having me.

[00:07:52] SureEyes: [00:07:52] Thank you for joining. I think, you know, the mental health conversation is a tricky one because, because those who don't really struggle with it feel like they have no voice to really join the conversation.

[00:08:05] And maybe those who do or are affected by it feel maybe judged or stigmatised. And so I'm hoping that conversations like this will almost normalize mental health conversations, um, and just create the space for us to have it as ordinary as we would any other conversation. So thank you. Um, how, what would you say your, your kind of journey with mental health has been, or where are you in your mental health journey?

[00:08:40] I know it's a very broad question, so interpret it whichever way you'd like to, you know, but what's your kind of action with mental health.

[00:08:49] Nicola: [00:08:49] Well, actually, it's, it's something I've battled with. Um, anxiety is something that I've battled with since I was a little girl. Um, I, I'm a very sensitive person and I'm very, very analytical.

[00:09:05] And as a little girl, um, I didn’t obviously know what was happening at the time. I just got really bad anxiety, which manifested in my stomach and, um, It's sort of like a grade three level, which is super, super young. Um, I was like, they thought I had a stomach ulcer, so it's, it's such a weird thing because through out school, um, you know, I was undiagnosed and, um, I really battled with, you know, anxiety and depression as a result of that.

[00:09:46] And somehow. I managed to cope and, and just, yeah. Develop our coping mechanisms, but obviously like when you're undiagnosed, um, some of those coping skills are not actually good coping skills. Um, I didn't grow up in a particularly wealthy family. And definitely I didn't grow up at a time where it was like more socially acceptable to go to a therapist or a psychologist.

[00:10:18] So it was always kind of that old school mentality of like, why are you so sad buck up kind of thing. Um, but somehow in my own being, I knew that there was something just a little bit off. And when I started working, um, I. Started paying for my own therapy. I was like, you know what? I know that this can be undone and.

[00:10:47] You know, I know that this is almost a ripple effects. Like it's sins of the father stuff, you know, it's, it's generational. And I remember saying to my mom, when she was saying like, why do you need it? I was like, you know, you suffer from depression. Like all of this stuff exists. It stops here. It stops with me.

[00:11:05] Yeah, this is where it ends. And, uh, from that moment on, and I mean, it was triggered by, you know, quite a catastrophic event. I found my grandmother passed, you know, um, like she died in, in my, in the house and I was trying to save her. So it wasn't like a big catalyst for it, but once I started doing it, I know I'm like, I'm one of those people that commit, uh, I looked at it like, okay, cool.

[00:11:37] I exercise and I eat good food for my body to function, um, in an optimal way, in the same way I'm exercising my brain and I'm getting rid of the things that. Don't work for me. So I started in my early twenties and like did Freudian therapy and stuff like that for a very long time. And it literally changed my life.

[00:12:03] And, um, I think as a result, years later, um, when I was involved, like in a near fatal head on collision, I had those. Those structures in place that really helped me, um, recover. Um, my doctor at one point said to me like Nicola, it's no longer fight of the body. It's a fight of the mind. Um, and it's exactly that, you know, it's, it'd be, it goes beyond physicality.

[00:12:36] Like a lot of the fights we have on a daily basis are from an emotional or mental perspective.

[00:12:44] SureEyes: [00:12:44] Yeah. I think it's interesting that you raised. You know, maybe just to give a bit of context, you know, so this episode is about, you know, how we use the platforms available to us to spread mental health messages.

[00:13:01] Um, and before I get to that, I think there's just something I want to touch on that you raised, um, which is more this idea of being undiagnosed, you know, and I think, you know, there's, there's always, almost what I think as being. The human level of things. Like we all get sad or get anxious. We all, we all experience the range of human emotion.

[00:13:26] And I personally believe that, you know, it, it becomes problematic when it inhibits our functioning. So like, When for me personally, when my depressive episodes stopped me from showering or seeing friends or eating or go the different ways where I'm like, Ooh, this is a sign of depression that is going to kind of stop my functioning.

[00:13:51] At what point did you, did you think, okay, this anxiety, which you probably didn't have the language for at like grade three level, right? At what point in your journey did you think, Ooh, this, this is something I need to seek treatment for?

[00:14:10] Nicola: [00:14:10] Well, I think I started seeing it sort of in my later teens. Um, my mom was, uh, You know, came from a little bit of an abusive background.

[00:14:23] Nonphysically abusive, like emotionally abusive background and as a result, um, you know, she she's, she is. Categorically codependent. So when I was growing up, you know, my moods would impact her moods, which is not a healthy thing. And, um, as a result, I would suppress any sadness or any anger and all of that kind of thing, because I didn't want to upset too.

[00:14:52] You know, that's what our responses children, you know, and once I started realizing like, Not only like why I was doing that, but also just understanding my mom and like really she was coming from and like an actually feeling for her because like she didn't like, arrive like that. A situation was created where she was in a similar situation as me where she was, she had to cope in whichever way.

[00:15:23] Yeah. As a result of that, I w that's where I, I came to the point is like, mom, I know what you had to deal with. And I'm sorry, you know, you had to deal with that stuff, but it stops now. It stops with me. We gonna, we gonna do this together. And at first she was like, um, she was very upset. She, she thought that I was blaming her and that's not what it was.

[00:15:48] And I think, you know, as I've done that growth into understanding where my stuff is, I've grown to understand my mom so much more, um, and have a little bit more compassion for her as a human being, you know? Cause we tend to like place our parents on pedestals and like they can do no wrong or you, you, lose it at them and like to look at her and think like shit, like.

[00:16:18] Imagine what she had to go through. Like that's not cool, you know, and be able to connect with your family, um, on generational stuff. Yeah. Helps you love them more. And I think that that's something of great value I could to become more patient with her because I understood I was more compassionate.

[00:16:41] And I also started seeing my mom as a human being and not just my mom. And that's such a huge thing to do is like, look at them and go like, actually, you know, and she's, she's just a rad person doing her best.

[00:16:57] SureEyes: [00:16:57] You know, so much of what you're saying now resonates. So with me, um, just that, that moment where you go, you're actually just a human being, being the base under the circumstances, but the hand you were dealt and that you also have emotions, you also have, you also have a life story.

[00:17:15] You also have a psyche that has. You know, led you to behave in certain ways. You also have defence mechanisms. You also have, you know, and I think, I think that was, you know, when I, when I first started going to therapy in, well, let's say when I first started seeing a psychiatrist and not just psychologists, um, and then I, you know, it was very, uh, Awakening for me, but from a anchoring perspective, and I think it was a, it was a big step for me to be able to move past the resentment and the blaming and reach that point of, but you're actually just an awesome human doing the best you can, you know, and I think, I think what, what maybe stops some of some recovery is still looking to apportion that.

[00:18:12] To find someone to blame, right. To say that, but why did this happen to me? But why did I have to go through this? Why did you know, it must occur? You know, what did I do to deserve this? You know? And when you start looking at, when you want to externalise it and be like, no, but it must have been because of you or it must've been because of the situation or instead of just taking it for what it is right.

[00:18:35] For instead of just going like, okay, it happened and it affected me and it sucks. And I can't go back and change it, but it doesn't have to define how I relate to you.

[00:18:48] Nicola: [00:18:48] Yeah. And I think that around that, you know, um, I think when I was younger and took that kind of stuff into relationships, I tended to blame like the dysfunction on the other person.

[00:19:03] But as I did, like every time something ended, you know, I kind of looked at it as an opportunity to see how I could. Be better and do better in my next relationship or whatever that was, whether it be friendship or romantic or even from a work perspective. And, um, and what I started realising is that, that there's a level of accountability and contribution to situations and that I can't, um, denounced my accountability because.

[00:19:43] I'm N I'm adding to this. It doesn't just manifest out of nowhere. It's not just to you. Exactly. And I think that, you know, I don't know if you know, um, the idea of the drama triangle. Which is, you know, um, uh, on, on abusive relationships where it becomes, you know, the rescuer, the victim, the persecutor, and what that dynamic does is like realising that you are playing some of those roles in your relationships, whether it is the victim or the persecutor or the rescuer, like.

[00:20:23] You've contributed to that dysfunction in some way, because you can't control the other person. You can only control yourself. And once you realize that, I think that's where the empowering part lies is that yeah, we can get dragged into someone's drama or we can say. No, I'm not going there. Like, um, even though I see you kind of trying to press my buttons and trying to get that kind of anger or, um, you want, you want the justification that if I become an angry person, you go, well, look at you.

[00:21:00] This is, you know, You're terrible person so that you feel better. And there's a great opportunity to like hit pause and go, you know what I see that, where this is going and you're not, I'm not going to. It's that simple. And that takes a long time and a lot of undoing. And like the generational stuff is not about just dealing with the present.

[00:21:26] It's undoing. Sometimes generations of, of actions and undoing, as you know, is, is far more laborious than doing

[00:21:38] SureEyes: [00:21:38] 100%. My mom always says,

[00:21:40] what's that saying?

[00:21:41] Um, old habits die hard.

[00:21:44] Nicola: [00:21:44] Yeah. You know, some of them you have to beat into the ground, beat into submission crazy. And I mean, it's, it's a hard journey. Like I think I never knew, I feel such compassion and empathy for little me.

[00:22:04] I because now I understand, because I kind of have her with me all the time. You know, that part of me that didn't know what was happening and that was scared, you know? And it's so weird that, you know, when I speak with my counsellors, you're able to gauge your sadness and your anger almost on like how big it is, because when it's bigger.

[00:22:26] Yeah. It's kind of younger. And, um, one of my counsellors, after my motor vehicle accident said like, this is your inner child, just hold her hand and say, it's going to be okay. I got you. And it's such a weird thing because like, I know that little girl that was lost and scared and didn't know where she fits in the world because everyone seemed to be doing just granted.

[00:22:52] I was that strange, um, like hypersensitive, introverted little kid. Um, That like now it's an adult's like, I just want to give her a hug.

[00:23:08] SureEyes: [00:23:08] Yeah, no, I, I, I can completely resonate with that. And I think, you know, you speak quite openly about the accident you were in, and I know on your social media account it’s something you referenced quite strongly, especially when you shape the impact it had on your mental strength.

[00:23:26] Um, yeah. You know, at what point did you, and you know, I've been following your account for a while now. Um, but like at what point did you, did you say, okay, you know, I'm going to start using the things that have happened to me that aren't necessarily palatable, easy to talk about, but I'm going to start using this as a way to share positive, you

Comes Back To Bite You In The Proverbial Ass

Candice Nolan — Mon, 05 Jul 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] you're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by sureEyes, please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness.

[00:00:21] spudcaster: [00:00:21] Quintessentially mental: The podcast is produced and hosted by spudcaster for baobulb.org

[00:00:28] SureEyes: [00:00:28] Hey, y'all this is quintessentially mental, the podcast. And I'm your host Cherise today's episode is called, comes back to bite you in the proverbial ass. I think this was inspired by obviously, you know, Events in my own life where I either made a decision or didn't make a decision, did something or didn't do something.

[00:00:53] And it came back to bite me in the ass, meaning, you know, I had to pay for it that action or inaction at some point. And so in today's episode, I really want to kind of look at, reflect on and poke about. When we repress or block our trauma, do it on purpose or not whether we do it consciously or not. Um, and its effect on not only our, our mental health in so far as it pertains to the feelings that we have for our, you know, of ourselves and of our world, around us, but also, and how it affects our behaviour.

[00:01:38] You know, and whether we become conscious that this is, you know, the, the behaviours that we're displaying are actually as a result of former hurt pain experience. That has been, that we've blocked out that we've repressed, that we suppress, that we don't look at, that we refuse to deal with, whether we do that, as I said, intentionally or not consciously or not.

[00:02:10] Um, I think it's important because you know, for a long time, especially in our coloured communities, so to speak, you know, we, we have this idea that. You know, we should just bite the bullet or, you know, keep a stiff upper lip. And we shouldn't actually, you know, it's just life. It is what it is. We need to soldier on and not really question what that means for ourselves and how that actually impact and affect us.

[00:02:41] And so I'd like to talk to, you know, a friend of mine, her name's Robyn, um, where this has been a major theme in her journey and has been a major, you know, impact and influence in her life. Um, like I said, you know, if I look at it, if I look at my perspective on this topic of, you know, repressing, suppressing, ignoring, blocking trauma, um, and how it's affected me, you know, there's always a story I tell where it's not my proudest moment.

[00:03:16] It's not mine. You know, it's not way, um, displaying the best Cherize, um, not at the best version of myself, but I was, I was, you know, I, it was a time in my life where I had gone through a very devastating relationship. Um, I was in this relationship for eight years on and off and this relationship was marked by, you know, incessant and consistent cheating.

[00:03:49] Um, I wouldn't say emotional and verbal abuse. Um, you know, it was, it was just a relationship that on the whole didn’t serve me, but because of the point that I was at in my own journey and we are, was with myself, you know, I had very low self-esteem. I didn't, you know, I thought that a lot of what was going on in the relationship was my fault.

[00:04:18] Um, and so I, I didn't really pay it much attention. I didn't really, you know, think that it was something. That needed to be dealt with. It was rather, you know, something that I was causing. And so not only was I not dealing with the events that were, you know, that were playing out in my relationship and how that was affecting me, but I was also adding another layer of kind of self critique, self hate, self blame.

[00:04:53] All of these things impacting the way I saw myself, the way I saw the world, the way I related to the world. And of course that coming out in quite destructive behaviours. And so the one sjoe, the one day we were at, um, a team event, um, we were at a T. Yeah, we had a team event. And it was at one of my favourite bars and I felt violated.

[00:05:22] I felt like, you know, how could my work infiltrate this place that was so special to me as a person, so important to me as a person, how could, how could they violate me? And I ended up getting Super lit, like super super lit. Ordered a drink then proceeded to ninja kick the drink off the bar. Um, my, then one of my managers who I was also friends with and so that relationship was quite blurry, but, um, I, she then came up to me to see if I was okay if everything was fine.

[00:06:06] Um, I yelled at her. I put my hand in her face. Um, I belittled her, you know, I was quite aggressive and

[00:06:18] just

[00:06:19] people who knew me would say out of character, out of sorts and, and this streamed in my behaviour, you know, displayed itself at numerous points throughout my journey way I didn't realize or was again, failing to see that because of my

[00:06:38] repressed anger because of my, you know, suppressed emotion and trauma. I was acting out, you know, I was violent. I was aggressive. I was, you know, displaying characteristics that would, that people would not even use to describe me. And so, and so it became important. And I hope through this discussion with Robyn, we're able to really look at, you know, the effect of repressing, um, trauma and what that does to our overall mental health and how we can perhaps be a bit more proactive, um, of our journey.

[00:07:26] Join us after the ad break, when we continue the conversation.

[00:07:30] spudcaster: [00:07:30] This is a spudcaster podcast from baobulb.org.

[00:07:36] SureEyes: [00:07:36] Welcome come back to quintessentially mental the podcast hosted by SureEyes. So we'll take, we'll take the discussion to the next level. As Robyn joins us, I'm joined by one of my very, very good friend of mine, Robyn.

[00:07:52] Um, Hey Robyn

[00:08:07] Robyn-Lee: [00:08:07] Hey Cherize. So Awkward SureEyes: Why are you awkward? We’ve done radio things before. Robyn-Lee: I know but never from different rooms.

[00:08:10] SureEyes: [00:08:10] That's true. Thanks COVID. this is true.

[00:08:17] Other than that small pandemic thing.

[00:08:25] Thanks for joining me. I appreciate it. I appreciate your time.

[00:08:29] Robyn-Lee: [00:08:29] You're welcome. I'm so happy you're doing this podcast. I know that you've been on your mental health journey and healing journey from awhile now. Um, and I have been too, so I think it's good for us to, to chat about this and. Yeah. The more people know, and the more people are aware of these issues.

[00:08:45] I think the easier it is to kind of face them.

[00:08:52] SureEyes: [00:08:52] I've always been a very, uh, what's the word? I dunno, like super out there person. Right? So like, none of my issues are a secret, which I'm sure people in my life, we wish they were.

[00:09:10] But I think the more poke about things, the more we normalize it, the more we create opportunities just to be real and have open honest conversations. I think the easier it will become to kind of deal with these challenges. Right. Because I don't think. I don't think it's going in a way it's not like smallpox.

[00:09:32] I don't think or COVID it's like, we're going to, I don't know. Maybe we will reach that point. I don't know. But from my observation, I don't think we're going to be able to eradicate mental illness per se. And so some of it is very much biological right and that's not something, you know, I don't think we can totally eradicate.

[00:09:54] And so I think it does need to become as normal as talking about diabetes or any other kind of physical illness that we've gained more comfort with?

[00:10:05] Robyn-Lee: [00:10:05] Hmm. I think it's interesting that you said that because, um, this article I read recently, you mentioned that, you know, never before in human history, has there been such a collective, um, Depression anxiety or, you know, state of mental health issues, because we've just gone through the roof.

[00:10:24] Of course now with COVID they were bad before. And, um, one of the doctors and scientists kind of just waiting and watching to see what will happen in the next few years often, it's all compounded. So it's like an interesting time for mental health. Yeah.

[00:10:39] SureEyes: [00:10:39] So I think it is, I mean, I think, yeah. It's not great.

[00:10:43] You know, COVID is not great, but I think the opportunity that it presents to amplify the voice and conversation around mental health, I think that's great.

[00:10:57] Robyn-Lee: [00:10:57] Yeah,

[00:10:57] SureEyes: [00:10:57] but before the break, um, I was kind of just introducing the episode and, you know, I titled it comes back to bite you in the proverbial ass. You know, we, we, we, we almost don't deal with things or we suppress or repress whether it's trauma, whether it's a particular experience. Childhood, whether it's just something that happened the other day, whether it's feeling, you know, whether we do it consciously or not, you know, this idea of ignoring a problem and then having a comeback to just like bite us in the ass.

[00:11:38] And I thought this might be, you know, An interesting topic for you to shed light on given your journey. Um, and so maybe, I don't know,

[00:11:49] Robyn-Lee: [00:11:49] You're giving me exposure dollar,

[00:11:57] SureEyes: [00:11:57] So what am I getting out of this interaction?

[00:12:10] But um maybe you can, you know, maybe you can share. You know, how, how your mental health journey started. So like, what was the point that you thought, okay, I have an issue that I'm going to now consciously start managing.

[00:12:28] Robyn-Lee: [00:12:28] And, um, it actually happened during COVID funny enough because, well, I guess I have this long history of depression.

[00:12:40] Issues in my life, which came, I mean, which stem from, you know, as a child growing up in the environment that I did, I was, um, I had this condition called selective mutism. And even up until last year, I mean, I knew what was happening. I knew, um, What was going on in my life, but I didn't know at all, that this was actually a, a mental health issue.

[00:13:12] Um, and a challenge that lots of people have had, um, accidentally stumbled upon it. When I was reading about these things, you know, and, you know, as I started my journey with therapy, so, um, because of, you know, selective mutism essentially is when you block or repress, Certain events or feelings, emotions, um, traumatic events.

[00:13:41] And then, you know, after you just kind of stop engaging with the world and you don't talk to people. And for me, it was during, I think the ages of about seven to 12, 13, I just didn't speak to most people in my life at school. They thought I was mute. It was extreme to that point. You know, teachers didn't even think I could speak, I wouldn't go up to do my school auto.

[00:14:10] And I knew I knew these things were happening. And I guess so when I switched over into high school, a, there was a point where I was like, okay, I've been doing this thing for years now. And I recognise it with, within myself. My parents didn't even know about it, but I made a conscious choice then. You know, trying to begin to normalize in a way and still talking to people into acting, you know, and over years I became more and more myself, more comfortable with social interactions.

[00:14:45] And I thought, you know, that was the end of it. Yeah. Yes, and I was healed and I've been dealing with my issues and, um, you know, I can talk to people. And things are fine and [indistinct] COVID hit. Um, um, I just already being a person who is pretty withdrawn and inward, and as people would say, like an introvert for me, Always good to have alone time or, you know, being away from the crowds and away from people.

[00:15:24] And I could deal with that quite well, but then actually when COVID hit, like I felt the complete opposite way. It was so strange because this thing that had comforted me for so long was just like the worst thing in the world. And I really quickly became super anxious about everything. Um, I was really struggling, decided to stop.

[00:15:50] It'd be like a month in to like the lockdown being imposed here in SA. And yeah, that's really where my journey began, where I started facing the issues that could, recognising what it was and eventually learning how to deal with them. And I mean, now almost a year later, I'm still. You know, figuring my way at all the things and how to healthily actually confront these things.

[00:16:19] SureEyes: [00:16:19] Yeah. I think, I think it's, it's important that you mentioned, you know, this idea that, you know, for certain periods in your life, you said from, you know, maybe five years or so you didn’t speak to anyone or most people in your life. And then when you started high school, you decided, okay, let's try again.

[00:16:42] And then, because you no longer displayed that behaviour, that was, seemed to be problematic. You thought that, oh, everything's fine. Now not realising that the behaviour was actually just a symptom and not the root. Right. And then having, you know, and I think that's the thing. Well, at least this is my opinion, right?

[00:17:06] Is we tend to deal with the behaviour as opposed to what that behaviour is a symptom of.

[00:17:19] Yeah, you have these moments of like catalyst. So in my, I mean, you've, we've known each other for a very long time. So, you know, you know, my catalyst back in 2014, 13, it was more the end of a relationship. Whereas your catalyst was, you know, the seclusion because of lockdown and that, and because, and because of that, like, you didn't stop speaking to people, right?

[00:17:48] So it's not like you displayed the same behaviour that was identified as a problem, but you triggered something that was the same issue that you felt was an issue back then.

[00:18:04] Robyn-Lee: [00:18:04] And, you know, yeah. I agree with you. And then, you know, as, and then I went through my general therapy I was actually, I came to like a lot of realisations about myself and you know, why I was doing these things, and you know why I was behaving this way and the reasons why I actually placed so many things I've made getting to the root of those issues.

[00:18:27] Yeah.

[00:18:29] SureEyes: [00:18:29] I mean, it's gonna, it's gonna keep taking a while. Right? I think if I think about it, Shrek I think about

[00:18:39] a line from Shrek where he's like ogres, we have layers. And I think it's not just for ogres. I think it's human beings, you know? Um, I guess one of the things that I want to ask you that I've never asked you before, and I don't know how comfortable you're going to be answering it in this context. Um, why did you repress it?

[00:19:02] Why didn't you for lack of a better word, you know, ignore it. Why did you like, just not deal with it? Um, I guess before we get there, you know, you were oppressing it when you were repressing it.

[00:19:20] Robyn-Lee: [00:19:20] I didn't think of it as repressing. I knew why, and I knew the circumstance that led to that behavior, but I didn't think of it as repression up until recently when I started to learn about this condition and I've been dealing with things, um, and really the, the things that caused me to behave in that way. It was really traumatic events that happened over a series of years, you know?

[00:19:58] Um, and as you'll know that it's like when traumatic events happen to people, especially like when you're a little child and don't know how to deal with it, sometimes you just block them out, you know, and you don't know how to deal with it, or you don't speak to people and you just kind of lock it away and.

[00:20:16] That's that, or sometimes maybe it's not safe to speak about it, you know, you're afraid of what might happen to you, what might happen to the people involved? Um, so it's, yeah, it's a mix of things.

[00:20:28] SureEyes: [00:20:28] Yeah. It's funny you say that because in my very early childhood, um, my parents had a very abusive, physically abusive relationship and.

[00:20:41] My way of like blocking it out then. And I also didn't like the pennies just dropping now, my way of blocking it out then was I'd make up stories at school about my home situation. So. I just like make up the wildest. I can't even remember any of the stories now, but it's not like I would just come up with the craziest stories about like my family and like our context or what was going on.

[00:21:10] And I think that was my way of blocking it out. And it reached a point way when it was something I used to pride myself on. Right. We had reached a point when I was in high school and university where I could physically block out, um, Noise around me. Right. And that I didn't realize that was like my former response to the violence that I was subjected to at home in my early childhood.

[00:21:37] But it's like, I could literally be doing something in the busiest environment and not have any awareness of my environment. You know, and just be able to block out the noise or block out what was happening, you know, because I was just, I was just able to do it and sometimes it's served me well. So like when I worked in very busy offices, you know, just open plan and people were being whatever around me, I could just block it out and continue working.

[00:22:05] But, um, you know, it's, it's wild that. You know, did, did, did your blocking things out? Cause in that way it served me. Right. Did it ever serve you at a point? Did your behaviour ever serve you where you thought, oh, maybe my way of dealing with this isn't actually.

[00:22:24] Robyn-Lee: [00:22:24] Oh yeah. And I think that the way it's kind of unfolded for me.

[00:22:28] Opposite deal is because I always felt like, like in the family context instead I would just never want to bring friends home. I never want people to know what the deal was. You know, it just took me a long time to open up to people. And the way I kind of, I mean, I ha I did block things out emotionally, but.

[00:22:53] In the real world sense because I was so withdrawn and not speaking to people. And I guess in the lack of that form of communication and relating to people, I was, uh, an...

Getting Too Old For This Shit!

Candice Nolan — Mon, 28 Jun 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] you're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by sure eyes, please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness.

[00:00:26] Spudcaster: [00:00:26] Quintessentially mental: the podcast is produced and hosted by Spudcaster for baobulb.org .

[00:00:32] SureEyes: [00:00:32] Hey y'all this is quintessentially mental, the podcast, and I'm your host SureEyes today's episode is called getting too old for this shit.

[00:00:48] Inspiration for this being that, you know, at various times on my mental health journey, I find myself thinking, but now haven't I dealt with this haven't I been here haven't I shouldn't, I, should I be too old for this shit though? Should I not have arrived? And so I really want to, you know, chat with someone who

[00:01:16] has been on a, on a similar lengthy therapy journey, um, in terms of managing their mental health and trying to understand, you know, do we, do we ever arrive? Do we ever reach a point where we're like, yep. See that issue. We see you. We know you're there. You know, you're not going to get us because honestly we're too old and too wise for this shit.

[00:01:45] Um, yeah. So I think, I think given, given my own mental, mental health journey, um, And it's something I always, I always laugh about in hindsight, it's usually when I'm telling the story of what happened, you know, when this person said this and I did that and, but now am I not getting too old for this shit?

[00:02:09] You know? And, and I guess my questions becomes. How do we transition this into the moment when, when it's actually happening for us to, you know, change our behavior and, and say, look, you know, we we've, we've been here, we've done this, we've got the t-shirt and we we've got this, you know, and, and we can progress and move forward, um, on this journey.

[00:02:34] Join us after the ad break, when we continue the conversation.

[00:02:37]Spudcaster: [00:02:37] baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts podcast your life with baobulb.org.

[00:02:54] SureEyes: [00:02:54] Welcome back to quintessentially mental the podcast hosted by SureEyes .

[00:02:59]Hey, ya'll, so this is quintessentially mental, the podcast, and I'm joined by a new friend of mine, actually, my brothers squeeze. her name is Taryn . Hey girl, how you doing.

[00:03:12] Taryn Holmes: [00:03:12] Good. How you doing?

[00:03:13] SureEyes: [00:03:13] I'm good. Did you enjoy a little intro?

[00:03:16] Taryn Holmes: [00:03:16] Was amazing. I mean, I don't know about that little squeeze part, but sure. Let's go with that

[00:03:21] SureEyes: [00:03:21] main squeeze,

[00:03:23] Taryn Holmes: [00:03:23] only squeeze.

[00:03:31] SureEyes: [00:03:31] Well, we're pretty new friends. And like we've, we've had quite a few mental health conversations, mostly because we've both, we're kind of similar in age and have been in. Therapy for like what feels like most of our adult lives. Um, and so, you know,

[00:03:53] what I kind of want to chat with you about is. This idea of, have we ever really dealt with our mental health? Like, Oh, do you think we're going to be in therapy for the rest of our life?

[00:04:05] Taryn Holmes: [00:04:05] And after that, definitely after that too, especially at the rate I'm going these days,

[00:04:12]SureEyes: [00:04:12] Say more. What do you mean?

[00:04:14] Taryn Holmes: [00:04:14] Um, I dunno. I just feel like, um, so I started therapy when I was 20. Um, and it was something that I did totally on my own.

[00:04:23] Nobody told me to do it. It was just something I felt like I needed to do for myself. And I thought it would help me with, um, all the issues that we think we have, you know, like our parents, um, And our upbringing and our lifestyles and all of that and the relationships that we were in, whether it be friendships or romantic relationships.

[00:04:44] And I just feel like I've been working towards a certain goal and I just feel like I'm never going to get there. And while I've made progress and while I've certainly, um, taken quite substantial steps, meaningful steps, I just feel like the finish line is no closer.

[00:05:05] SureEyes: [00:05:05] But what makes you say that? So I know for me a while ago

[00:05:10] I had a bit of a break, well, not a breakdown, but I was just like, fuck, I just keep doing the same thing. Like, why am I even in therapy? So like, why am I even doing this when my behavioral pattern is the same?

[00:05:29] For me, like, I don't even think I have a goal. So like for you, what do you mean that you're not even closer to your goal? Like what, what do you mean?

[00:05:40] Taryn Holmes: [00:05:40] I suppose I feel like I just want to get over, you know, there's certain things that we all go through with ourselves, like. I've got a lot of self-doubt. Um, I think I come across as the most secure most, um, I've got this kind of person that you could ever come across, but actually I'm probably one of the most insecure people you'll ever meet.

[00:06:05] And I feel like I've been working on that and working on that and working on that. And I'm just not getting any further with it. I understand what triggers me. I understand. Um, understand the reasoning behind it, understand like my, my psychologist, she calls it my scripts. So I'm well aware of what my scripts are and

[00:06:27] SureEyes: [00:06:27] It's what you tell yourself basically, yes.

[00:06:30] Taryn Holmes: [00:06:30] Yeah. Well, yeah. And like, not only that, but like the script is that she, she describes it as, um, like the script of our life, you know? So like, or maybe like the book of our life, the story of our life and yeah. When certain things happen in our lives, we are triggered and taken back to that moment. And then we act in a specific kind of way.

[00:06:53] Um, and I just feel like after so much therapy and after so much understanding. And like, if somebody else behaves in a particular way, I can look at them and I can totally understand what they're doing and why they doing it. And I can try and talk them down if you want to call it that. But I can't do that for myself either.

[00:07:15] SureEyes: [00:07:15] So, I guess I think, you know, for me, what it makes me think of is we always able to be friends to other people, but we're not able to be friends to ourselves when you can

[00:07:29] see, you know, I used to have this thing that said, you know, I say, treat yourself like you would your

[00:07:36] friend. Cause we just don't have the same level of compassion, understanding empathy, like all the other things we like, if, if it was me going through something that you're going through, you would say to me, and which you often do, you've got this.

[00:07:56] It's okay. It's okay to feel the way you do, or, you know, we don't do that with ourselves. I think

[00:08:03] we're so hard on ourselves because we're like we should be done with this by now. Like we've been dealing with this, you know, why are we still touched. Why are we still reacting to this? Like, it's the first time we're

[00:08:16] Taryn Holmes: [00:08:16] why are we so triggered by something we've worked so hard on overcoming.

[00:08:21] SureEyes: [00:08:21] Exactly. And I think, I think the tough part to realize well there've been two things that have come to my mind over the past few days, I think the first is kind of awareness or getting over denial doesn't necessarily equal a change in behavior. So like this whole

[00:08:42] understanding, understanding. Like, you know, the fact that you know, what it is, you know, these are, these are the issues, you know, this is how the issues affect you.

[00:08:52] You know, you know, how you behave when these things happen. But like in that moment, when you're being triggered, you know, it doesn't all that awareness doesn't necessarily equal their behavior actually shifting.

[00:09:06] Taryn Holmes: [00:09:06] Ja it all goes out the window and you just carry on like a lunatic. I mean, if you want to call it that, but you just, you let go of all that understanding and it's really very frustrating. Um,

[00:09:21] yeah, I dunno.

[00:09:23] SureEyes: [00:09:23] Yeah. I dunno. You know, it's, it's a struggle because it's like, I remember when also I started therapy when I was about 19. What am I now I'll be 35 this year. So legit, like, you know, more than 10 years ago, 15 years.

[00:09:44] Um, you know where again, you say I kind of didn't stick with one therapist. Throughout my journey, right? Because either I had moved cities or had taken a break, well, their relationship hadn't worked out or whatever. And it reached a point where I was just like, listen, bruh,

[00:10:04] I know what my issue is.

[00:10:06] I know why I'm like this. I don't need to like figure out what, what, what my issue is. I know what it is. And it's about how do I actually deal with it? When it's happening, not dealing with it in the therapy room, if that makes sense. Yeah. And then I had my last

[00:10:25] Taryn Holmes: [00:10:25] those life, tools

[00:10:26] SureEyes: [00:10:26] Yeah then my psychiatrist would say, you know, therapy happens outside of therapy. You know, your healing happens when you're not in this space where you're talking about your healing or talking about your issues. It's when you're actually experiencing it. I

[00:10:46] don't know. It's such a tricky one. I don't like, I don't know. I just feel like it's going to be this. It's going to be, are we just going to get better at dealing with it. Do you think you've become, you've gotten better at dealing with it?

[00:10:58] Taryn Holmes: [00:10:58] 100% yes I'm so much better at dealing with things, um, before if I was triggered or if I was going through a rough stage, um, I would become overly OCD, um, to a point where I would shower, like every hour or like. Every two hours or whatever, like, and I could, I never felt clean enough.

[00:11:19] I never felt that. It's didn't matter how many times I showered or washed or whatever I was never, ever, ever, ever clean enough and any type of thing. Like even if I went outside into the garden and then came back inside, I felt contaminated again. Um, so I've learned that that was my way of controlling situations when I felt out of control.

[00:11:41] In other situations, so I've become better at doing that. I'm definitely, um, I know how to cope with that and. When I tweak out and when, uh, when I'm in a phase, which I'm actually going through at the moment, I recognize what's happening and I understand what's happening and I don't let it affect me as much as it would once have, but that doesn't mean to say that I'm not still affected by it.

[00:12:07] And it doesn't mean that I'm not still going through the motions of everything. And, um, I had a, I had a discussion with my psychiatrist and we discussed that my issue could be post COVID, um, because I had COVID and, uh, he was saying that why I think I stand to be corrected but one in five people that have had COVID, um, and are on antidepressants, um, have some type of, uh, like, uh, uh, uh, post COVID syndrome where they

[00:12:41] just battle with the prolonged fatigue and the prolonged depression. And it just, it just totally takes it out of you. And while he was saying that could possibly be what I'm going through. There's obviously no concrete evidence because COVID, hasn't been around for long enough and not enough studies have been done.

[00:13:01] But what he say to me made sense, and now, it's just a question of, do I ride it out or do I, up my antidepressant dosage for about a month to see if that gets me out of the funk or not?

[00:13:14] SureEyes: [00:13:14] Yeah. So I think you've raised two things that I wanted to kind of talk about, because I think it's things that evolve as you go through your therapy or.

[00:13:26] Your healing, mental health healing journey, I think is you said, you know, he said it's post COVID. So did receiving some kind of, I don't wanna say diagnosis because that isn't really an official diagnosis because COVID is so real and, you know, it's so new and it hasn't really been around and does receiving a diagnosis.

[00:13:53] Almost give you comfort because it's like, okay, now I know what I'm dealing with. Like, did you feel less overwhelmed being able to name it or, you know, like this idea of, I know for me, when I received the diagnosis, it was like, Oh, this is why I've been behaving like this. It's not just, you know, so does receiving this diagnosis.

[00:14:22] Like change the way you start thinking about the thing that you're going through. Do you think?

[00:14:30] Taryn Holmes: [00:14:30] Um, I suppose to some degree it does, but I still feel frustrated because I'm like, why does it have to be, you know, like, and I don't mean to be negative or why me, but like, there's always something else, you know, just as one thinks that you're overcoming something, then something else rears its ugly head.

[00:14:49] So, yes, I take comfort in knowing that Oh, okay. Actually I'm not, you know, like all that messed up. I'm not all that damaged. There's reason for this. But then on the other hand, I'm like, well, why, why, why does there always have to be something else? I mean, it also spoke about, he spoke about medications as well, because I recently had quite a bad breakout with my skin.

[00:15:15] And, um, that, that has happened for me since my, my early twenties. And I'm now I'll be 34 this month. And so for the last 10 years, I've been struggling really badly with, with bad acne. Cystic acne. And so recently I went back on to reaccutane and he mentioned that the Reaccutane could also be affecting the medication, um, which also, you know, takes us out of sync if you want to call it that.

[00:15:40] Um, and then also like our Arcoxia, which is an anti-inflammatory, I've had some really bad shoulder issues. Um, he says that the alcoxia could be interfering with the my antidepressant . So is it the COVID is it the arcoxia ? Is it the reaccutane ? Is it just me? You know,

[00:15:59] SureEyes: [00:15:59] but I think what you, what you're raising is quite important, right? Is that mental health is so ethereal , so to speak, you know,

[00:16:09] it's, it's something that we can't always locate and identify the exact cause for a particular problem. And. You know, most of the time, it's a combination of things that add up to effect and kind of, you know, just impact your ability to function right on like a psychological, emotional, or mental playing field.

[00:16:40] And so I think, you know, it is very difficult to pinpoint and say, you know, It's not like when you, when you, when you fall off fall from the roof and you break your leg and you're like, it's because I fell from the roof or I, you know, there was a loose tile or whatever, right? Like

[00:17:02] with, when it comes to like physical illness, I think it's a lot easier to pinpoint what the cause of it is versus something that's. So not only. That you can't really see per se, you know, that, you know, but it's also something that isn't that well understood.

[00:17:23] So it's, I think it's difficult for you to say, you know, and, and I think it brings up, it brings up something that could be the cause of. You know, a lot of our mental issues, which is, you know, it could be the fact that we're going through this pandemic. It could be that you were ill and this illness

[00:17:45] that's new has post recovery effects that we don't know because this illness is so new, it could be medication reactions. It could be, um, You know, it could be the fact that your physical body hasn't been well and that's impacting the way you feel about yourself.

[00:18:04] Like there's so many re there's so many things that impact our mental health, you know, and I think it's such a complex thing to be able to understand and just talk about, you know, not nevermind you don't understand it, but like even when you do, you know, even when your affected by it and impacted by it,

[00:18:27] Taryn Holmes: [00:18:27] Yeah.

[00:18:27] And then, like you say it and then talk about it, you know, and I mean, I feel like there's still such a stigma around mental health, you know? Um, so many people frown upon people who, who stand up and say, you know, I've, I've, I am affected by mental health. And so sometimes talking about it isn't even an option because.

[00:18:50] You feel judged, um, or you feel like there's something wrong with you? Um, like so many people, you, like there's been a couple of people in my life where I've said to, you know I take antidepressants and all of a sudden they whole view of me changes, you know, because I'm that person that depends on a tablet too

[00:19:08] carry on with my life. Yeah. So I think it also comes in there where you say to talk about it or whatever, you know, you've got to have a safe space to talk about it. And with people who can either relate or who aren't narrow-minded in there ways of thinking around mental health and like, you know, all those types of things, stigmas and stuff.

[00:19:28] SureEyes: [00:19:28] But I think this is, this is the thing, right. Is medication is such a. I don't know. It's, it's something that we take all the time. People have no problem popping a panado, or Disprin when they have a headache.

[00:19:48] People have no problems self-medicating with cigarettes, alcohol, drugs, sex, food. People have no problem with that. But the minute it comes to like psychiatric drugs. You know,

[00:20:04] Taryn Holmes: [00:20:04] then you're a freak show

[00:20:06] SureEyes: [00:20:06] you,...

Nothing To See Here, Folks!

Candice Nolan — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 08:00:00 +0200

This latest episode of Quintessentially Mental: The Podcast features Nicole Germond. This podcast is hosted by SureEyes.

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] You're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by SureEyes , please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness.

[00:00:37]spudcaster: [00:00:37] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts, podcast your life with baobulb.org.

[00:00:57] SureEyes: [00:00:57] Hey, y'all this is quintessentially mental, the podcast, and I'm your host SureEyes . Today's episode is called nothing to see here, folks, um, inspired by, you know, just thinking on the early parts of my journey on, on mental health and how, you know, our families almost ignore what's going on, um, or pretend it doesn't exist.

[00:01:25] Um, And so that's kind of what I'd like to chat about today, um, is really how we cope when we feel unseen or unheard, or like what we're going through. Isn't acknowledged. Um, especially by the people closest to us, our family, you know, the people we live with, the people we identify or the first people we identify with, um, And I think, you know, it, and, and obviously the effect of that on our, on our mental health.

[00:02:04] Um, so for today's episode, I'll be chatting to a very good friend of mine. Um, her name is Nicole Germond . She is, we've probably been friends for about 20 odd years. We met in our first year of high school way back in 2000. Um, and yeah, I think, you know, we, we we've, we've watched each other grow and support each other along our, our individual mental health journeys.

[00:02:38] Um, and obviously as teenagers watching us struggle with anxiety, as we navigate depression, anxiety, um, again, in our early adulthood and here at university in Cape town, um, going through quite tumultuous relationships. Um, and then again, as adults, you know, or more matured adults, um, And so we, we have a pretty long history together and have quite a strong understanding of each other's family responses to our individual mental health journeys.

[00:03:22] Um, if I, if I reflect on my own, um, my own journey, I remember as a teenager feeling like I didn't belong, um, feeling. You know, as I, as I've mentioned in a previous podcast, I'm my mother's middle child. And growing up with, you know, my older and youngest sibling, um, before the, the three youngest siblings came along after, my parents divorced, I, I really struggled with.

[00:03:55] Anger anger towards my parents and the relationship specifically, my father and the abuse I witnessed specifically my mom and resenting or not even realizing I resented my mom only realizing that in later years. Um, but just feeling a sense of anger and feeling like. You know what I was experiencing, wasn't normal and long time feeling embarrassed by the events in my family.

[00:04:26] And I remember being probably in about grade nine. Um, and back in those days, we called it standard seven, even just a giveaway to, to my age. And, you know, I, I remember. Feeling lost, unseen. Unheard. Um, just like, as I said, like I didn't belong and you know, I would go on hunger strikes. So to show my, you know, disgust and upset with the way that my father was treating my mom and our family.

[00:05:05] Know, I would refuse to eat any of the food that he bought or refuse to wear any of the clothes that he bought. Um, and this would cause. Obviously going without food for all, you know, infrequent periods of food would affect one's mood. As I, as I now know. Um, and I think that added to my general sense of moodiness.

[00:05:30] And I remember my mom saying to me, you know, instead of delving into these, these issues, her response at that time was. well, you're just feeling sorry for yourself. You're just being self-pitying. And, and that, I guess confused me because I, they, I think further negated how I felt I then further, um, you know, pushed down and ignored what it is I was feeling.

[00:06:06] Because, you know, if, if my, my, my mom's response was that I'm simply feeling sorry for myself, it then means that my, my general sense of feeling whatever that was, you know, as I mentioned it being, um, just unseen, unheard. You know, that, that, that was unjustified. That I didn't have a reason that I didn't, you know, that, that it wasn't.

[00:06:35] neccesary , almost that I was an inconvenience at another time. Her words to me were that I was ungrateful and that stuck with me, you know, that, that response really in later years made me feel that how could I possibly struggle with. Depression or anxiety or have any kind of mood disorder? When I was so blessed when I had a roof, when I had food, when I had, um, an education, when I had a boyfriend, when I had, um, access to a great university, when I had friends, when I had, you know, Those words in later two years would really impact my ability to accept the fact that I had an illness.

[00:07:31] And so I really want Nicole and I have to talk about how. You know, our, our families ignoring whether it's intentional and not conscious or not, you know, based on the individual narratives, if we can really understand how their behavior of ignoring our mental challenges or mental illness, um, affected us.

[00:07:56] At the time and also in later years, so stay tuned. Um, we'll, we'll be back after this ad break, um, to, to welcome Nicole to, to this discussion,

[00:08:09]spudcaster: [00:08:09] This podcast is produced and hosted by spudcaster for baobulb.org .

[00:08:15]SureEyes: [00:08:15] I'm joined now by a very good friend of mine. We've been friends for way too long, maybe 20 years. Um, yeah.

[00:08:27] Hey Nics. How are you?

[00:08:29] Nicole Germond: [00:08:29] Hi. Hi,

[00:08:31] SureEyes: [00:08:31] how are you doing?

[00:08:33] Nicole Germond: [00:08:33] All right. Yeah. I'm okay.

[00:08:35] SureEyes: [00:08:35] Thank you for agreeing to talk to me.

[00:08:38] Nicole Germond: [00:08:38] You most welcome.

[00:08:39] SureEyes: [00:08:39] We've had a, we've had a long mental health history.

[00:08:49] Nicole Germond: [00:08:49] It goes back a long way. It really does.

[00:08:52] SureEyes: [00:08:52] Yeah. So I think, you know, in today's episode, we're just kind of talking about how, when we struggle with mental health issues, in whatever form they take, whether diagnosed or not, or, you know, whether overt or not, and just the reaction from our families, you know, and because of the, I don't know, in my view, the.

[00:09:16] tabooness of it all, like from my perspective, which is the coloured angle, which is keep a stiff upper lip and black people who struggle in life in general. So what are you talking about? You know, families tend to just sweep things under the rug or pretend they're not happening. And so I, I'm going to have this conversation with you because you've experienced almost a similar.

[00:09:41] You know, you've had something similar based on your experience with your family.

[00:09:48] Nicole Germond: [00:09:48] Yeah. Um, you know, I think it is a very prolific problem, especially in South Africa. Um, you know, look, I can't, I can't speak culturally obviously. Uh, but, uh, you know, from, from the people that I've spoken to and, you know, as you've just said, it's we come from.

[00:10:10] Uh, very, uh, stiff upper lip sort of society. Um, you know, and it's not, I think mental health is something that isn't really acknowledged. I think we're getting there. Just globally, you know, day by day, where we're inching towards it being more sort of socially acceptable or you know, that the discussions and the conversations that we're having around, uh, opening up people and families, especially to, to the idea that mental health shouldn't be something to do.

[00:10:42] But I think especially in this country, we were still very far behind, um, you know, on a personal level. I have definitely. Had that experience. It was, you know, I think especially as a teenager and I think my family is, is doing much better with it now because of the shift. But as a teenager, there's definitely, you know, that was a long time ago as you know, because we're all, older people now.

[00:11:18] When we were, when we were teens, you know, and it was, it was very impactful. How our families reacted to, to mental health that was when, when we really needed the support. Um, and I don't think that, that we got it. And I think that is still a problem. Now, you know, we, we have these mental health issues and it's, it's not specific to one sector of people, you know, it's, it's, it's.

[00:11:46] It's across the board, everybody. I mean, not everybody, but you know, people from every culture, from every race, from every unit, there are people across the board that suffered with these mental health issues and to have families, um, you know, who, who have almost stigmatized this, it can be, uh, can make seeking help very difficult.

[00:12:11] Um, you know, it can. It can make you want to hide that part of yourself because to not be accepted by a family, um, you know, it's, it's very isolating. So I think, yeah, it's, it's having these conversations I think is important because families need to be more open minded and to, to kind of open themselves up to.

[00:12:42] Knowing what these issues are and knowing, you know, if you have a family member that, that, uh, is struggling with within mental health, you know, learning the things that you can do to help them and, you know, not ostracizing. And I think, you know, especially in the African cultures, you know, it's, uh, it's people get ostracized incredibly, um, Quite brutally, I think, you know, so why would anybody be open about, about their mental health, if that's the case?

[00:13:11] And that's very unfortunate because we're closing, you know, we're closing those doors for people, you know, they, they, they don't have the opportunity to, to get help. Um, you know, and I mean, personally on a personal level, having my family, um, you know, My family, it wasn't that they didn't acknowledge it. It was that they didn't know necessarily how to deal with it.

[00:13:42] Um, and they did all the wrong things and it, it led to a very, a much longer journey of, of sort of having to have to try and figure it out myself than had they approached the right people or to educate themselves. Um, I think, yeah, I think it's, it would have been much more beneficial to me much, much earlier on,

[00:14:10] SureEyes: [00:14:10] but this is the thing I think at that point in our lives, when we were 13, 14, 15 years old in the normal development of a human being at that point where there's so much confusion around your identity and fitting in with.

[00:14:29] Your family, your social group, your school, your self, you know, the, the additional layer of struggling with things like depression or anxiety or suicidal thoughts or self-harm, or, you know, these things that just add an additional layer of complexity to what is already quite the troubling time. You know, again, like, I'm glad you said that, you know, like my relationships with my mom's specifically is in a much better place now that, you know, she's also had her own experience with mental health challenges in her life.

[00:15:16] But at that time where. You know, she herself didn't have language or understanding it wasn't something that from her generation was spoken about exactly the way she reacted to me then, which is very detrimental to me being able to actually cope with what I was going through. And so, you know, using words, like when I was.

[00:15:45] Because I felt this pressure to almost be happy all the time. Like that was the only, that was the only feeling that was acceptable and to display, anything else was like, I wasn't grateful or I was being self-pitying or, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't appreciated for the response to a context that I was going through. Exactly. I think that.

[00:16:13] That hopefully, you know, starts shifting and maybe, you know, teenagers now have parents who, but it's still not as open as it could be. It's teenagers, but it's definitely not. And maybe it's also the culture we live in. Right? Like everyone's an emo kid. Everyone is. Writing some song about some shit that happened to them, you know, and we are verbalizing our stories a lot more, but not on a I see it, at least not on a, on a real level.

[00:16:47] It's still almost like very superficial level. Exactly. Because we're still scared of being judged or if we're like I know with me. When I had my, when I was working in, in Doha and I had like a huge mental breakdown where I basically told a colleague, a partner like a senior to me that I feel very sorry for his whole family, that they have to be subjected to his presence.

[00:17:18] Like I had a nervous breakdown. And so it was translated that I was incapable of doing my job. Yeah, the translation. And that was only three years ago, two years ago.

[00:17:30]Nicole Germond: [00:17:30] Absolutely. And I think, unfortunately we, we almost ostracize ourselves still, you know, even those of us that have acknowledged and, and, um, uh, come to terms with the fact that we do struggle with mental, mental health and mental health issues and mental illness.

[00:17:48] You know, I think that we. We've also put it on ourselves. I mean, I it's the same thing for me. I also had a period, an episode of the complete mental breakdown. And I didn't even want to tell anybody because I was quite ashamed and, you know, I went into hospital and I had planned not to tell my family and largely that was because, you know, it was so ignored and, and sort of dealt with poorly.

[00:18:20] When I was younger, but it was also because I felt a lot of shame and I didn't want anyone to know that I was going through this period and that I needed to be hospitalized. You know? So, I mean, I think that we, we take that. We take a lot of that on ourselves as well. Um, that we don't, we, we, we don't view it as something.

[00:18:42] Not to say that it's normal, but that is a part of life and that, you know, mental health for the most part in largely, you know, it's, it's illness to some degree, you know, obviously there's, there's environmental factors and, and, and all that, but, you know, we, we talk about mental illness. Uh, but we don't, we don't see it as an illness in ourselves.

[00:19:05] You know, we still see it as something to be ashamed of. You know, you wouldn't be ashamed of, of having cancer ashamed of having diabetes or whatever the case is. Why are we still so shameful about, you know, struggling mentally? Um, you know, so as far as family goes and, and, and ourselves, I mean, just on a personal level, that's, that's very been, been a very, um, Uh, consistent things through, through my experience of dealing, dealing with my family and dealing with mental health is my own shame around it.

[00:19:38] You know? And I think that that's also something that we need to overcome as a society. You know, as you said, we, we speaking about it more, but on quite a superficial level, but I think it's also, we need to talk about it. From from, uh, our own selves and, and, and learn to accept the stuff in ourselves, you know, and learn to embrace the fact that that's a big part of who we are.

[00:20:05] You know, it doesn't define us as people, but it is a part of what makes us us, and it's a part of our story. And it's a part of our struggle. Um, and there's nothing to be ashamed of in that.

[00:20:19] SureEyes: [00:20:19] It's it's funny you say that we, you know, while you were, while you were speaking about the shame you felt about the hospitalization.

[00:20:29] If I think about I've had like, basically four major breakdowns in the past six years, seven years, and the first time it happened, I went to a yoga retreat. I did not go to kennilworth clinic. I was like, I'm just going on. Like, self care mission you know, I wasn't, I wasn't like I'd actually need to be hospitalized because I had

[00:21:01] you know, overdosed and my psychiatrist was like, yeah, you're a risk to yourself. So either this is going to happen or, you know, you're going to be forced to do it. And then the last two middle breakdowns, I avoided hospitalization, but also was quite shameful. In like, explaining what had happened and like having friends,

[00:21:37] like making a joke out of it or like downplaying it. And then in 2019 I was hospitalized for two weeks, um, or 10 days. And there, I was just like, yeah, no fuck, like hospital. Y'all like, this is, you know, and my, my, if I think about what contributed to me feeling less shameful about it was the fact that I had a support system who didn't feel like I needed to, like, I was less of a person or I was.

[00:22:20] You know, so like, even from a work situation, I was in a team where health as a 360 was appreciated. And so I can tell my managers, you're like, I'm struggling. I need to, I'm actually really not. Well, I'm going to, you know, I need to be booked off so that I can go take care of myself. My family is supportive.

[00:22:43] Like my sister, and my mom drove me to the hospital, as opposed to the first time I was like, y'all, let's not even tell them, you know,

[00:22:52] Nicole Germond: [00:22:52] but that's exactly it. You know, I think having that support and. You know, work is, is hugely important to have the support of your colleagues. But, you know, just coming back to the, to the original topic about family, I mean, I think, you know, a big part of not feeling that shame yourself is, is to have your family be accepting of, of.

[00:23:13] Whatever it is, that's going on and be supportive about it. You know, what a big difference it made to you, you know, that your, that your mom and your sister were there. And it was the same for me. And, you know, I have been hospitalized more than once and my first couple of experiences were awful because I didn't feel supported and I didn't feel, um, that people thought that it was okay.

[00:23:33] That I was, that I was in hospital. Whereas, you know, the most recent time. There was a lot more support from my family, from my friends. And I felt like, okay, I'm actually, I'm doing the right thing here for, for my own mental health and for my own, just as you said, sort of holistic health and wellbeing.

[00:23:54] Exactly. You know, so I think it is important for families to be supportive. And, and obviously, you know, if, if you're in a position. Where your family isn't supportive. You can't, you can't change that. And you know, you can try your best to change it. But I think more so from, from, you know, if you're

A Tale of Two Cities

Candice Nolan — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

[00:01:10] Hey, y'all this is quintessentially mental, the podcast, and I'm your host share eyes. Today's episode is titled a tale of two sisters, obviously. Inspired by a tale of two cities. If I think about the first line of that, or the first sentence of that book, if my memory, my memory doesn't fail me, you know, it goes, it was the best of times. It was the worst of times. And, and that sentence, you know, that, that opening line really sums up, I guess, the difference between my sister and I's experience.

[00:01:51] Growing up with our parents, um, we're five years apart. And so at each point in our early life, you know, we were almost an entire development phase ahead, or I was always a development phase ahead of her, um, eg. She was eight almost pre-teening and I was 13 entering my adolescence. You know, and, and that, that line, it was the best of times.

[00:02:20] It was the worst of times really reflects our experience of, of all our family, um, where, you know, I feel like I, I, I experienced the disintegration of my parents' marriage and that really affected me. Um, and she kind of lived through the aftermath of that. And so in this episode, we really want to dig into the experiences and influence of those experiences on our mental health.

[00:02:57] Of two sisters born of the same parents, um, who experienced different things. So stay tuned.

[00:03:07]Spudcaster: [00:03:07] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts, podcast your life with baobulb.org ,

[00:03:23]SureEyes: [00:03:23] I guess, for you to truly understand the dynamics of my family. I need to give you a bit of history, bit have a bit of context. So I'm one of six kids that I know of. I say that because I would describe my father as a bit of a loose cannon. Um, Yeah. So I have an older brother who is a half-brother. So my mom's son, but not my father's son. Um, who's five years older than me, but I grew up with him as if he was a brother.

[00:04:01] Um, it's then myself, I am the oldest girl of both my parents. It has then my sister, who I referred to, um, she's five years younger than me and we share parents. Then we have another sister, who's technically a step sister, um, where it's my ex step mom. So my father's second ex-wife, um, her daughter and not my father's daughter.

[00:04:34] Then I have another sister who turns 13 this year. Um, again a half sister. So the said ex second ex-wife and my father's daughter. And then I've got a youngest daughter. I mean our youngest sister. And you see, even I get confused

[00:04:54] youngest sister who will be. Uh, seven this year. So my father is onto his third marriage, which is why, you know, um, we joke and say, this is the kids that we know of. Um, but yeah, so, so to give you a bit of insight, um, you know, during my, and my brother's kind of years coming up as kids and teenagers, we witnessed a lot of abuse.

[00:05:24] Um, Physical. Mental, emotional, psychological, um, which really obviously affected me. I didn't have a very good relationship with my father as I almost viewed it as how can you treat my mother like that? And I guess he struggled to separate his role as a father and his role as a husband. And so. The relationship between the two of us just integrated completely.

[00:06:00] And so by the time my parents got divorced. I was 18. Um, and my, my sister who's five years younger than me was only 13. Now during that time, you know, being my sister was, you know, the youngest at that time, the Apple of my father's eye. And so there was a lot of. I think intentional rift created between us where we, you know, we almost felt like competitors instead of sisters where we were almost pitted against each other, you know, who my birthday being forgotten and hers being, you know, having the greatest fanfare.

[00:06:46] And I think I never really felt resentment towards her. I think I was mostly confused, um, by, by this difference in the way that we were treated, but I know from her side, so whenever my, my father and I would fight, he would then change his attitude towards my sister, which would then create animosity between the two of us.

[00:07:12] And this went on for years. I then lift at the age of 18 to go down to Cape town, to study, um, leaving my mom and my sister. You know, to kind of figure life out and life was pretty rough for my sister. Um, things that I didn't really know about because I was so far away and I think that's something that, you know, really affected her and, uh, you know, it's something I hope to talk to her about in the next segment, you know, is me being away and not really understanding or being

[00:07:49] exposed to the challenges that she faced, that the, you know, the challenges that she and my mom faced and how that really affected her. So while my mental health was greatly influenced by the abuse that I saw the abandonment of my father, of our family and relationship, um, and just the constant rejection, you know, where he's said to me that I'm not his daughter.

[00:08:17] And so I really want to dig into, you know, how the two of us been born of the same DNA we're affected by these two people who went through different things at the different points in our, in our upbringing.

[00:08:32] Welcome back to quintessentially mental. I'm here with my sister Dayle. Um, what's up SIS. Hey, how are you?

[00:08:41] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:08:41] I'm good. How are you?

[00:08:43]SureEyes: [00:08:43] I'm okay. Thanks for agreeing to chat to me.

[00:08:45] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:08:45] Well, I thought it was quite interesting that you did that. You actually asked me

[00:08:49] SureEyes: [00:08:49] why?

[00:08:50] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:08:50] Um, I think it just challenged what I personally think about mental health

[00:08:58] SureEyes: [00:08:58] In what way?

[00:09:00] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:09:00] So we always, well, we always see people with mental health problems as they not really, as we, because we all experienced them.

[00:09:10] SureEyes: [00:09:10] Okay. So earlier on, in the episode, I spoke a bit about how, you know, we're five years apart. And so my experience of my childhood, we, our parents were still married versus your experience of childhood and adolescence where things had broken down, um, was very different. And so it's interesting that you say that you see it as they, when did you realize you were part of the we?

[00:09:39]Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:09:39] um, it's actually quite recent. Uh, I think that the older I get, the more I reflect on my childhood and my upbringing, so that I can sort of realize where I need to adjust myself as a person, because I do want to be a balanced, stable. Emotionally aware, conscious human being and to be able to.

[00:10:07] Break cycles. I need to go back deep into my upbringing and my experiences with both my parents and the more I look at it on not only internally, but externally looking at other people, everybody is they, everybody is we. Yes,

[00:10:32] exactly. Everybody faces a level of, um, Mental challenges. I think that the difference between the they and the we is that they are people who are conscious of it and who are actively taking steps not to correct it, but to get it under control.

[00:10:51]SureEyes: [00:10:51] Yeah. I mean, we speak quite often about this. Like, I don't really think that it goes away.

[00:10:57] I'm just like, no, I see you. I see you rearing your, your head and then maybe I don't, you know, react as much as I used to, or maybe it doesn't affect me for as long as it used to, but let's go, like let's go into, so I speak a bit about how my upbringing kind of. More. So from my experience with our father, then our mother, like I only realized I had issues from my maternal relationship later on in my life versus realizing my paternal kind of issues.

[00:11:35] Um, if you could like highlight the three things that you maybe struggle with from a mental health perspective that you can see, okay, this is a direct. Uh, this is directly from my upbringing. This is like a direct result of my upbringing. And, you know, maybe just say what those things are and you know, how they affect you.

[00:12:03] And when you, when you made the link that, Oh, it's because of this thing that happened when I was a kid that is now affecting me as an adult.

[00:12:13] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:12:13] Okay. I think. The biggest thing for me has to be my level of aggression. I'm an extremely aggressive person, also in very you know situations that don't require such a high level of aggression.

[00:12:33] Um, I think I realized this. With my daughter. So my daughter's name is Milan she's. I have to be very specific about this she's eight and a half, and she is a reflection of my aggression. And I noticed that when she'd get anxiety being around me or she'd get really anxious telling me things about her anxiety would.

[00:13:04] Stemming from my aggression and how I would react to really small things. So I sort of realized that that was due to my upbringing or my childhood when I stayed with my mum and my parents, our parents were already apart at that stage. And all she did was complain and be aggressive in every situation where she would talk about my father. She was extremely aggressive towards it. And also a case of, towards me at all and my schooling and different aspects of my life. She was, it was something that I was supposed to do, you know? Um, I think maybe you've spoken about biting the bullet, but we all, it was very. Tough because she was, she had to be so tough and she did it pretty aggressively.

[00:14:04] Um, the second thing would be communication.

[00:14:07] SureEyes: [00:14:07] Join us after the ad break. When we continue the conversation.

[00:14:11]Spudcaster: [00:14:11] Baobulb.org is a podcasting platform and a medium for storytelling. This podcast is also available on all the major podcasting apps, including Apple and Google podcasts, podcast your life with baobulb.org.

[00:14:27] SureEyes: [00:14:27] Welcome back to quintessentially mental the podcast hosted by SureEyes. Okay, wait, but okay. Before we go into the second thing, can we talk a bit about the first thing, or do you want to talk, do you want to kind of cover all three and then get into and then get into it?

[00:14:41] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:14:41] Yeah.

[00:14:41] SureEyes: [00:14:41] Okay, cool.

[00:14:42] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:14:42] So the second would be communication.

[00:14:44] I have to be conscious of the way I communicate. My mother is a mute

[00:14:57]SureEyes: [00:14:57] We call her mumbledor

[00:14:59] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:14:59] that she does not speak about what's going on. Um, and I think it's because she did not feel heard. When she was married and she felt like she just had to get on with it. So she did not communicate within her marriage or with me. Well, I also think it's the generation. She grew up with right. so like.

[00:15:21] SureEyes: [00:15:21] She's to give a bit of context. Our mother just turned 60. And so that age group was very much of the. You know, stiff, upper lip type children are to be seen. And you, you just, you don't talk about things. You just buried them very deep and hope you don't implode, you know? But when you, when you add other things to that mix, like explosion implosion is bound to happen.

[00:15:48] So I think it's more than just, I think getting to a point where, you know, you don't. Express yourself because it's not culturally acceptable. And then being in a relationship where you are silenced, I think has like just exacerbates the situation.

[00:16:05]Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:16:05] I think so you've explained it so well. And so clearly, um, so yeah, I have to be very conscious at on the way I communicate and also pay attention to actually communicating because.

[00:16:22] I can harbour things and then you don't. I know it all sort of, uh, blends and mixes and, you know, the stories we tell ourselves.

[00:16:36] SureEyes: [00:16:36] Sure. And you can make stories up my sister.

[00:16:40] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:16:40] And then it just explodes one day, usually by a very passive trigger that. Shouldn't actually be a trigger, but due to a lack of communication or communicative skills that sort of that result, the third thing I would say is treating people as if they don't have feelings.

[00:17:01] Um, I actually feel sorry for my husband. He is a direct, what's the word? , he bares the brunt, is it directly in impacts him all the time? So, because people are just supposed to be strong, we're just supposed to do what we have to do. Um, forgetting that there's emotion attached to it. So. And those are the three things for me that really stand out.

[00:17:31] Of course there's more, no, but those are three major ones that I'm trying to work on it. It can get a little frustrating because it's feels like you're taking one step forward and four steps backwards. But I think being conscious of it is, is quite important. So, you know, when I would express certain things to my mom, Or to my father, they would just say, well, it is what it is.

[00:17:59] This is the way it is. There was no explanation. There was no context given there was no understanding that I'm also a human being and they treated me as if I'm just supposed to be strong. Like, so I think I treat other people the same way. Like, why are you getting emotional? This is unnecessary. We need to do what we need to do.

[00:18:21] And it's. It makes me very insensitive towards other people.

[00:18:26]SureEyes: [00:18:26] It's, it's so weird that like, while you're talking now, I'm actually realizing I do the same thing. I do also sometimes treat, I guess I have two States, right? I either treat people. Like they should have a more evolved emotional state of being.

[00:18:46] And so like, why are you even like, if you can't rationalize and reason, and, but yet I go, about my feelings and my emotions, and this hurts me, and this is my emotional response. Or I just like, I'm also, I'm so insensitive. And then also to, to people that I'm in a relationship with, it's not, I show more my baby daddy's.

[00:19:12] He's always, like, I show more compassion to like my friends or my family than I do to him.

[00:19:19] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:19:19] But this is the conversation that we had earlier. When I was saying that I treat my husband. Like he doesn't have feelings. Like if he, because he struggles with. Alcoholism. And he can get into a state where or if he starts drinking and it makes me anxious and I feel like, you know, he needs to be a certain way.

[00:19:39] That's a certain picture that I envisioned for my family. And if he does not live up to that, I get extremely verbally abusive

[00:19:48] SureEyes: [00:19:48] that that's so big of you to say

[00:19:50] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:19:50] only contributes more to his issue. So. For me, it's like from in my head addiction doesn't exist. Um, but it's an illness, right. You know, it's a mental illness.

[00:20:01] No, I know. I'm completely aware of that. Yeah. Right in that, when I'm in that emotion emotionally immature state or a state where I cannot show any compassion or understanding or empathy in my mind, addiction is not a choice because of that hardness that I grew up with.

[00:20:20] SureEyes: [00:20:20] You mean, it is a choice?

[00:20:22] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:20:22] No, it's not, you cannot choose it.

[00:20:25] SureEyes: [00:20:25] Okay. But you're saying in your I'm confused. So maybe I'm not following you in yours when you get like, not compassionate, you go, you think that it is a choice or that it isn't a choice,

[00:20:38] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:20:38] well, it's not a choice. We cannot choose to be addicted to alcohol. We need to get over it.

[00:20:42] SureEyes: [00:20:42] Oh, I see. Okay. Okay. I see. Okay.

[00:20:45]Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:20:45] Why are you choosing that?

[00:20:46] SureEyes: [00:20:46] Okay. I understand. I understand.

[00:20:48] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:20:48] When you need to deal with it. And move on because that is how I grew up. So it only contributes more my verbal abuse telling him how useless he is or telling him that he's just an alcoholic and I'm not going to deal with this or how he's incapable as a father.

[00:21:07] Obviously he struggled with that internally already because we, I believe that we are aware of our situations and I just break him down even more.

[00:21:18] SureEyes: [00:21:18] That's really big of you to say

[00:21:20] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:21:20] it's the truth.

[00:21:20] SureEyes: [00:21:20] I feel like I need to go have a conversation with my baby daddy and be like, so I'm more of a Dick than I'm admitting to.

[00:21:31] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:21:31] These are the conversations that we have over and over again is because it's like a vicious cycle. I struggled with aggression and he struggled with alcoholism and put the two together and it's a fuck up.

[00:21:43] SureEyes: [00:21:43] Shoo that's hectic. So if, if I, if I think about the three things that you identified as kind of like your, your three main struggles in life stemming from childhood, you're quite affected by your relationship with mommy.

[00:22:00] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:22:00] I am,

[00:22:01] SureEyes: [00:22:01] it's weird because I I'm like I'm affected, but I'm more affected by what I saw between. Our parents and then my relationship and then lack of relationship with our father. And that's what I'm saying. I only realized I had the maternal problems later on in life. Yeah. And I think I'm a lot more forgiving towards mommy than I am towards our father.

[00:22:28] Because like you mentioned at the beginning of, um, Our conversation is that you saw more between the two of them .

[00:22:35] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:22:35] Yes,

[00:22:36] SureEyes: [00:22:36] and I think I'll also, I think I've said this to you before. Like I value what she did under the circumstances that she did it. So like it's her job to have mothered us.

[00:22:48] Yeah. That's her job at, you know, or less so now, because we're both adults, but like, I mean the conditions,

[00:22:56] Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:22:56] so insensitivity is her job because giving up is also a choice, but she chose differently.

[00:23:05] SureEyes: [00:23:05] What, what, what are you referring to specifically?

[00:23:08]Dayle Rooskrantz: [00:23:08] It's her job to mother. There comes that insensitivity taking away their emotion, where she actually did have a choice.

[00:23:15] She had a choice to give up. She had a choice not to care.

[00:23:19] SureEyes: [00:23:19] That's fair,

[00:23:19] So I think the choice that she made under the circumstances that she was living, that we were living under. was hectic. Like, I don't know, like I have one child and I'm like, yo, I'm going to go...

Oh Hello! It's Me, SureEyes!

Candice Nolan — Fri, 25 Jun 2021 08:00:00 +0200

Transcript

SureEyes: [00:00:00] you're listening to quintessentially mental a podcast hosted by SureEyes. Please note that this host is not a mental health practitioner or professional, and this podcast is not made for treatment of any mental illness.

[00:00:25] Spudcaster: [00:00:25] Quintessentially Mental: the podcast is produced and hosted by Spudcaster for Baobulb.org.

[00:00:33] SureEyes: [00:00:33] Welcome, welcome, welcome. A podcast focussed on mental health and mental health journeys and stories. Um, we're hoping that, or I'm hoping that this podcast, you know, helps to de stigmatize mental health. You know, we, we create a space to talk about our main goal, health struggles, celebrations, achievements, journeys, um, all of these different things that allow us to be more functional as mentally healthy people.

[00:01:16] Um, I guess I wanted to start this as a podcast that hopes to, you know, as I said, normalize the conversation around mental health and the way I was hoping to do this, is not only by sharing my story, but about also inviting guests onto my show, um, where we were able to talk about different topics regarding mental health.

[00:01:44] We, um, You know, we can actually just open up the dialogue. We can actually just open up the conversation. Um, I am a 34 year old mom, a new mom. Um, my son is still very young, um, and I've, I've battled mental health and mental illness probably from the time I was about 11 years old. Um, well at least that's when I think it started, I was only formally diagnosed when I was 26 or 27.

[00:02:24] And I've had a number of, you know, additional diagnosis and re diagnosis. You know, mental health is one of these things, we almost feel like if we talk about it, we're admitting our inadequacy, we're admitting our inability. We're admitting that we're not capable. We're admitting that we don't function.

[00:02:49] And while these things might be true. For split seconds or very brief moment in time periodically through our lives. It's not necessarily who we are. It's not necessarily what defines us. It's not necessarily, you know, the thing that makes us who we are. Um, And so I hope that by, by following and listening and engaging in these conversations, that we, we start realizing that talking about our mental health should be as normal as saying I'm just not feeling well today.

[00:03:30] And it happens to be not visible. Um, so yeah, that's, that's just a brief introduction. I'm very excited to be on this journey with you. Um, when I was approached by Candice Nolan from Baobulb, I was very excited me I like talking and to talk about something that I'm very passionate about and something that affects me directly, you know, I don't

[00:04:02] I don't always believe in, you know, offering opinions on things I don't know about. Um, but I think that this is, this is an important part of who I am. Um, or where I've come from on my journey. Um, so just to give you a bit of background on myself, I have been diagnosed primarily with borderline personality disorder.

[00:04:31] Apparently this is one of the more difficult illnesses to diagnose because it's only something that can really be observed over a period. A prolonged period of time. Um, it was suspected that I had BPD probably in 2016, um, and then only, you know, properly diagnosed towards the end of 2016. And having that diagnosis confirmed, um, in about 2017.

[00:05:04] Um, it was, it, wasn't an, I guess this is the way all of my diagnoses have come about. And I guess I was lucky in that I had, um, quite matured in their career, um, mental health professionals working with me and it was never a case of you are a borderline personality disorder sufferer, or you are

[00:05:32] you have bipolar or you have, you know, a substance induced mood disorder or you have, you know, it was more a case of, you know, these behaviors that you're displaying are evidence of a type of illness that many people struggle with. So it was more a case of these, these behaviors, these, these things that we are identifying with you have also been identified with this thing that we call borderline personality disorder, as an example.

[00:06:09] And I think one of, you know, what resonated with me when I, when I received the first diagnosis, I guess my first diagnosis was major depressive disorder. This was back in 2014 where I'd suffered quite a humiliating, quite public nervous breakdown. Um, I'd gone through quite an intense relationship and breakup.

[00:06:40] This was a guy I dated on and off for eight years, probably at a very significant and critical point in my development. I'd met him when I was 18, my first year of university. And, um, we were each other's proverbially, you know, first loves it was quite an intense relationship. I think, you know, Me having come out of a mold that I felt I was forced into, you know, where I was in high school as a straight A student, I was head girl.

[00:07:19] I was, um, You know, achieving from a sports perspective, from a cultural perspective, um, I was very, uh, involved in school, had, you know, great friends. And when I left school, I almost felt like is this who I was forced to be, or is this who I am? And I just went off on a tangent, I guess, a rebellious tangent, um, where I was partying a lot.

[00:07:49] I was drinking a lot. I was smoking. I was, I wasn't exercising. I, you know, I felt like I needed to break the mold of what I had been in so far to figure out who I was or who I am. At that time I also met this guy who also had his own backstory as we all do, obviously, you know, so he comes from a mixed race background.

[00:08:18] Um, mum being Jewish dad being Xhosa, and also struggling with his identity and where he fit in. And, you know, both of us having I dunno, not the best or functional or healthiest relationships with our fathers, respectively. Um, these, these lack of relationships impacting us in different ways, um, and leading to quite a volatile intense

[00:08:51] relationship. I think, you know, obviously at that time, I didn't know that I had a mood disorder or that I had mental health or mental illness, um, mental health issues or mental illness. I didn't know. And, and so it was, you know, I love intensely. It was, I saw his behaviors as a reflection on me. I saw, you know, this was, this was a very significant relationship in my life and being my first serious boyfriend.

[00:09:27] Um, and obviously. Not as obvious to me, it's obvious now that I can look at it in hindsight, but you know, the going, going back, I can, I can kind of say, Ooh, this, this was, it was pretty fucking obvious that the wheels were going to fall off, you know, but when I was in it, when I was going through it, I didn't actually realize

[00:09:54] how unhealthy and how, you know, cliche toxic using that word that I think we throw around too easily. Um, you know, how bad for me this relationship was and how bad for him this relationship was. Um, and so I, you know, we, we broke up and we made up and we broke up and we made up and eventually after you know, having me having lived overseas, coming back and living together, we had, we had numerous cracks in our relationship as a result of our own individual

[00:10:34] mental health journeys that we were on blindly, not blindly. Um, and one of the things I really struggled with in our relationship was infidelity and cheating. And, you know, the fact that I had quite a fragile self esteem to begin with, um, Based on my own, you know, non-relationship with my father or strained relationship with my mom, or just the fact that my, my self esteem seemed to have been rooted in things external to me up until that point had been rooted in things external to me.

[00:11:12] And so the things that were happening in my relationship were quite, um, fragile to me, um, Where I had started drinking excessively. I had, um, you know, I, I was also very ashamed of the bouts of depression that I had been experiencing throughout my university career throughout my early working years. My early career years.

[00:11:41] I was very embarrassed because how can I, who seem to excel at everything I do, who seem to be so extroverted who seem to be so vivacious to, you know, seem to have a together from an external perspective, how could I possibly be struggling with things like anxiety or depression or, you know, trauma related responses or any of those things that created instability in myself as a human.

[00:12:10] And it eventually spiraled to a point where, um, I took an overdose of tablets and I still remember, you know, I still remember quite clearly. Going to the pharmacy trying to act normal. Like this was like, I wasn't thinking about taking 30 pills, you know, and laughing with the pharmacist and just kind of saying, yeah, you know, I just have these like muscle spasms and, you know, I need to find something that can help me deal with the pain and, you know, buying these tablets, knowing full well that I was going to go back to my room

[00:12:51] in our house that I was sharing with, with people who had become my friends, um, and just taking an insane amount of tablets. Um, the boyfriend that I was involved with, we had been broken up for a couple of months. I'd moved out of the place that we were sharing. Um, and he it's it's, it's not that I wanted him.

[00:13:19] I don't know, you know, this is, this is probably the first time that I'm talking about it as openly and publicly as I am, you know, but he was the first person that I spoke to and I said, look, this is what I've done. I've taken an abnormal amount of pills. Um, and of course he would think that it was attention seeking on my side.

[00:13:43] And I think for me, it was really. Being in so much emotional pain and being in so much. Yeah, just being in so much emotional pain that I just wanted the pain to stop. I just wanted to stop feeling I just wanted, and I wanted the person who had caused this pain in me to also feel pain. And so he took me to keep Mediclinic, um, where I couldn't find my medical aid card.

[00:14:16] They started treating me, um, they've given me activated charcoal because at that point, um, making me puke or pumping my stomach, wasn't an option. It was really now trying to deal with what was in my system. Um, Eventually, you know, he had called his mom who's also a practitioner or professional in the medical industry who to this day is a second mom to me.

[00:14:44] And, you know, seeing the look on their faces where, you know, I almost died, um, because of my own actions. And it was there. After that, I saw a psychiatrist for the first time. Um, having been in and out of therapy and in and out of psychological treatment for a number of years. Um, but having being referred to a psychiatrist, because this was now in layman's terms, you know, an attempted suicide.

[00:15:18] I spent the next week in bed, um, at my then ex boyfriend's mom's house. And you know, I barely ate, I barely slept. I barely showered. I barely spoke. I was completely dysfunctional and I think it had, it was crystal clear that I was either going to end up dead or needed to take steps to help myself get better.

[00:15:54] Um, And I remember my, my sec, my, you know, my, my, my ex's mom saying that hospital wasn't a choice. And even though I voluntarily admitted myself to Kenilworth clinic, um, It was, it was hard. It was really, really difficult. I think, admitting to myself that I wasn't healthy, that, you know, it reached a point where I was a danger to myself is really

[00:16:26] it's really a bitter pill to swallow. And I think, I think I'd been a danger to myself for some time leading up to that. While I might not have ended up in hospital, I was definitely, you know, doing very dangerous, very high-risk things that would, that would really, you know, that would really put me in danger, put my life in danger.

[00:16:54] And on reflection, you know, that first hospitalization was the best decision that I could have made. Um, I struggled to talk about, I remember being in group sessions where I struggled to talk about, um, What I had gone through, you know, when people asked, why are you here? It wasn't as easy for me to say, well, I went through a really bad breakup that really affected and impacted me to a point where I felt like I didn't want to live and I overdosed.

[00:17:31] I couldn't say that I was still finding language. I was still finding, understanding in myself. I was still. You know, I remember finding, you know, tools during my group and individual therapy sessions, finding tools that helped me understand myself a lot more and helped me understand where I'd come from and where I was in that, in that point, in that point in my life and finding that there were a lot of.

[00:18:03] It's like I can be angry. Wow. I can be angry and taking that anger to, you know, re embodying and feeling that anger. Um, and still, I hadn't found a comfort. You know, I remember when I was discharged from, from the three week program and one of my best friends picked me up from the hospital. And I remember being on this high, you know, this, Oh my gosh.

[00:18:35] So exciting. I'm healed. I'm healed. I am so like together. And you know, also thinking that I had arrived at a point of I will no longer experience the things that I experienced. Um, And so that was, that was a very critical and very pivotal time in my life. I, I was wow. Yeah, it, it was, it was the best decision I could've made for myself.

[00:19:10] And I think, you know, that was, that hospitalization happened in 2014. Um, Which is a number of years ago and it's taken since then for me to actually get comfortable in sharing my story and sharing my journey and sharing myself on a, on a mental health and mental illness level. And so as part of this podcast, I really wanted to

[00:19:41] provide a space where we can without judgment from others or ourselves share these things that we've gone through that have made us better human beings, um, that help us grow compassion for ourselves and others that help us become more empathetic towards ourselves and others. Um, that helps us become more patient.

[00:20:10] Um, and to help de-stigmatize something that, you know, I was one of the lucky ones. I didn't end up being buried by my family. I, I survived, I survived mental illness and I think, you know, a strong message for me is, or from me is that these things are treatable. These things are manageable. Um, so on that, that very light note, I hope that you will enjoy this, this journey of quintessentially mental with me and our guests.

[00:20:55] And I hope that even if it helps you have one conversation about where you are mentally. With one person. And even if that person is yourself, I feel like I would have achieved something. Darlings, take care of yourself. Look after yourself, love yourself, be kind to yourself. And I look forward to having, having more of these episodes with you. Take care. Toodles

[00:21:29] Spudcaster: [00:21:29] This podcast is produced and hosted by Spudcaster for Baobulb.org.

[00:21:34] SureEyes: [00:21:34] You've been listening to quintessentially mental the podcast, hosted by SureEyes. Join us next week as we continue the conversation about mental health. And remember, we are always perfectly ourselves.

Disclaimer: The views expressed do not reflect those of baobulb.org