Anthony introduces the critical concept of "cognitive offloading," exploring what happens to our visceral safety instincts and critical thinking when we hand our processes and decision-making over to machines. Through powerful analogies and real-world stories from the deep mines of South Africa to modern hospital wards, we discuss why human intuition and physical presence are irreplaceable assets in high-risk environments.

In this episode, we cover:

• The hazard of cognitive offloading and how offloading our thinking to AI may diminish our visceral sense of behavioral risk.
• Why artificial intelligence should be treated as a copilot rather than the pilot when it comes to organizational decision-making.
• The built-in sycophancy of Large Language Models and how their design to be pleasing prevents them from properly challenging our assumptions.
• The fundamental governance steps and building blocks organizations must have in place to deploy AI safely and effectively.
• The enduring necessity of human judgment and why the ultimate legal and moral liability for decisions will always rest with people.

Join us as we explore what we don't know about AI and discuss how to preserve what makes us uniquely human in an automated world.

Catch Anthony live at the Safety on the Edge Conference in Baltimore! He will be delivering a 45-minute presentation and leading a deep-dive 2-hour workshop on March 7th. Secure your spot today at https://safetyontheedge.com

The presentation will explore the behavioural effect of performance metrics. Based on empirical research with 20 safety leaders overseeing large and global organisations, the discussion will consider how the interpretation of performance metrics is fundamental in shaping how individuals respond to metrics. Using TRIFR as an example, the presentation will challenge the focus on finding the perfect indicator to measure safety and encourage attendees to consider the context and consequences of measurement.

Drawing from his research, James will demonstrate how a safety metric can be interpreted in many different ways simultaneously. Whilst TRIFR can be interpreted as a measure of the safety within an organisation, it can also be interpreted as a sign of management control, a means of motivation, a sign of self-promotion, a measure of risk and an indicator of trust in leadership. In our pursuit of the perfect metric for safety, we are overlooking meaning and human behaviour.

Key Take-outs:

🔹 Safety metrics should be viewed not as scientific instruments but behavioural triggers. 🔹 The meaning and use of safety metrics is not singular but multiple and therefore contestable and conflictual. 🔹 An individual's response to safety metrics is shaped by the context of use and consequences for them. 🔹 In our pursuit of the perfect tool, we need to consider how it is used and the consequences of measurement on individuals. 🔹 We also need to consider the ethics of safety metrics.

Together, they dive into the critical intersection of academic research and practical industry application. Shannon shares her expertise on taking a public health approach to injury prevention, aiming to systematically reduce the burden of injuries across populations. The conversation challenges traditional compliance-based industry metrics, exploring how organizations can move beyond lagging indicators to embrace prospective risk analysis and stop injuries before they happen.

Key Topics Discussed:

• The Public Health Lens: How viewing workplace safety through a broader public health perspective offers new frameworks, data sources, and approaches to problem-solving.
• Bridging the Gap: The powerful potential of partnering academia with industry to continuously evolve safety models and adapt to new workplace threats.
• Frontline Engagement: Why successful safety protocols must involve and explain changes to the frontline workers who are arguably the most invested in safety.
• Prospective Risk Measurement: Shifting the ultimate metric of success from simply counting injured workers to proactively identifying and mitigating high-risk situations.
• The Power of Champions: The crucial role that individual leaders and internal spokespersons play in advocating for risk attention and driving cultural change.
• The Future of Safety: How emerging tools like Artificial Intelligence will create tremendous efficiencies in cleaning and analyzing data to speed up safety research and interventions.

Join Us Live: Hear more from Shannon Frattaroli and other industry pioneers at the upcoming Safety on the Edge conference in Baltimore, May 4 to 7. Shannon will be a keynote speaker on Day 1, which will also be broadcast virtually to audiences across Latin America.

They dig into a shift that sounds simple but changes everything: the worker is not the problem. The worker is the solution.

From there, the discussion goes deeper.

Why do organizations still default to controlling people instead of learning from them? Why does safety continue to focus on eliminating risk when risk can’t actually be removed? And what happens when leaders realize the problem sits closer to their desk than the front line?

They also take on some of the friction in the industry today, including the tension between engineering-driven risk control and human performance thinking, the debate around whether HOP “reduces injuries,” and whether injury rates are even the right way to measure safety performance.

🔹 Why asking workers what they need is more effective than telling them to be safe

🔹 The difference between preventing failure and building capacity to handle it

🔹 How systems degrade long before something goes wrong

🔹 Why some regions are leapfrogging straight into newer safety thinking

🔹 What the “next thing” in safety might look like

This is not a conversation about compliance or programs.

It’s about how work actually gets done and what it takes to make it more reliable in a world where risk is always present.

If you’ve ever questioned whether traditional safety approaches are solving the right problem, this one will land.

It’s rarely a lack of intelligence, data, or expertise.

More often, it’s silence, filtered truths, and decisions made at the edge of uncertainty.

In this episode of EDGE Talks, we speak with Rodney Rocha, former Chief Engineer at NASA and a central voice in uncovering the systemic failures behind the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster.

This is not a retrospective.

It’s a conversation about leadership under pressure, risk at the edge, and why organizations repeatedly fail to hear what they most need to know.

If you work in complex, high-risk systems—mining, energy, healthcare, aviation, infrastructure—this conversation is for you.

Whether you are a seasoned executive or an early-career professional, this episode offers a masterclass in courageous leadership and the power of community in saving lives.

Key Topics Covered:

• The "Unicorn" Career: How a background in national politics and the U.S. Department of Labor shaped Jennifer’s mission-driven leadership style.
• Beyond Compliance: Why culture "eats strategy for lunch" and the importance of psychological safety.
• Strengths-Based Leadership: Using Gallup CliftonStrengths—like "Woo" (Winning Others Over) and "Strategic"—to build trust and hope within an organization.
• Leading Indicators: Shifting the focus from the "rearview mirror" of lagging statistics to proactive, business-driven safety practices.
• The Power of Community: How the ASSP’s 36,000 members collaborate to ensure safety is an inherent right for every worker.
• SOTE 2026: A look ahead to the upcoming Safety on the Edge forum in Baltimore.

About Jennifer McNelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifermcnelly/ Jennifer McNelly is the CEO of ASSP and a certified Gallup CliftonStrengths coach. With a career spanning the public and private sectors, she is a leading advocate for workforce development and global safety standards. Outside the office, she is a WSET Level 2 wine enthusiast and an avid pickleball player.

00:00 – Welcome to SOTE Edge Talks

00:47 – Meet Jennifer McNelly: From Alaska to the CEO of ASSP

01:46 – Wine Certification and Life Outside the Office

04:28 – Reflections on SOTE 2025 and Industrial Visits

06:12 – A "Unicorn" Career: Politics, Public Service, and Manufacturing

08:50 – How Safety Found Me: Joining ASSP as CEO

11:48 – The Passion of the Safety Professional

12:27 – The Power of Community: ASSP's Global Chapter Structure

14:34 – CliftonStrengths: Building Influential Leaders

18:01 – Why Culture Eats Strategy for Lunch

20:38 – What is "Woo"? Demystifying the Top 5 Strengths

24:18 – Memories from SOTE: Living on the Edge

28:03 – Normalizing the Mental Health Conversation

33:44 – The Workplace EHS Coalition and Core Principles

38:51 – Leading vs. Lagging Indicators in Safety

44:07 – The Future of ASSP: Digital Transformation and Career Coaching

54:19 – Why ASSP Partners with SOTE

58:55 – Turning Back Time: Courage and Stewardship

1:02:29 – Closing Remarks

Kathy discusses the evolution of people sustainability, the economic forces reshaping the safety profession, and the importance of connecting culture, governance, and human performance to long term value creation. Her insights come from decades of experience across industries, continents, and boardrooms.

If you want a fresh and strategic look at where safety is headed and how it can drive real business value, this conversation will challenge your thinking and expand your perspective.

Carole also highlights the importance of diversity in decision making, the role of authenticity in leadership, and why every improvement starts with someone who is willing to “be the one” who drives change. She reflects on learning from failure, building momentum across teams, and creating a culture where safety is felt, not forced.

If you are interested in human performance, psychological safety, cultural transformation, or modern safety leadership, this episode offers practical wisdom and powerful perspective.

In this inspiring conversation, Kim shares the story behind Southern Company’s safety transformation, why TRIR went up even as the workforce became safer, and how creating psychological safety unlocked honest reporting and real learning.

From hurricane recovery to frontline mentoring, Kim offers rare insight into what caring leadership sounds like and what it means to lead with purpose during times of crisis and change.

A must watch for anyone who leads people in high risk environments.

Malcolm Staves, co-founder of Safety on the Edge and Global VP of H&S at L’Oréal, talks with Jean-Christophe “JC” Le Coze, safety scientist and Research Director at INERIS, about how the lessons of Charles Perrow’s Normal Accidents still guide us—and how they’re being re-imagined for a more connected and complex world.

JC unpacks his books Safety Science Research: Evolution, Challenges and New Directions and Post Normal Accidents, showing how globalization, interconnectivity, control rooms, and rising cognitive workload reshape risk. He also makes the case for closing the gap between researchers and practitioners.

⬇️ Register for Safety on the Edge 2026

https://safetyontheedge.com

Be sure to check out JC's Book 👇

https://www.amazon.com/Post-Normal-Accident-Revisiting-Perrows/dp/0367483998

You’ll learn:

✅ How Charles Perrow’s Normal Accidents laid the foundation for understanding complex systems—and how JC Le Coze extends that thinking to today’s interconnected world

✅ How Karl Weick’s concept of collective mindfulness continues to inspire safer decision-making in modern, digital control rooms

✅ Why James Reason’s classic models of human reliability remain central—and how they evolve in a global, data-driven environment

✅ How insights from Nick Pidgeon, Andrew Hopkins, and Diane Vaughan deepen our understanding of organizational culture and accountability

✅ What globalization, financialization, and interconnectivity mean for safety leadership and risk decisions across modern value chains

✅ How bridging researchers and practitioners helps translate decades of theory into practical tools for today’s safety professionals

Chapters:

00:00 – Introduction and JC’s role at INERIS

10:06 – Safety Science Research: connecting new and pioneering generations

22:38 – Revisiting Charles Perrow’s Normal Accidents

29:37 – From “normal” to “postnormal”: evolving ideas for modern complexity

33:35 – Globalization, digitalization, and the new face of risk

36:46 – Cognitive workload and control rooms: the human side of system safety

48:13 – Bridging researchers and practitioners: where theory meets practice

55:20 – Metaphors and visuals in safety with James Pomeroy (preview of upcoming workshop)

58:30 – Reflections on collaboration, legacy, and the future of safety science

Reflecting on the inaugural Safety on the Edge event at UC Berkeley, Martin praised the collaboration between researchers, practitioners, and industry leaders for pushing safety thinking beyond traditional boundaries. She highlighted discussions on language, culture, and the need to move from lagging to leading indicators—focusing on risks that cause serious injuries and fatalities rather than simply counting incidents.

Martin emphasized that modern safety requires a multidisciplinary approach integrating engineering, psychology, human resources, and technology. With increasing automation and AI, safety must now account for complex interactions between people and machines. She also underscored the importance of psychological safety and inclusion—recognizing that people bring their full selves and life challenges to work. “You can’t be safe if you don’t feel safe,” she noted, linking safety culture to broader organizational culture.

Looking ahead, Martin envisions the next major leap in safety as industry-led, risk-focused, and human-centered—identifying and controlling critical risks before harm occurs. She advocates for businesses and safety organizations to lead progress even before regulations catch up.

The episode concludes with a look to the upcoming 2025 Safety on the Edge and NSC Safety Summit in Baltimore, where academic and industry leaders will join forces again. Martin’s closing advice to young professionals: stay curious, challenge existing norms, and seek out those shaping the next wave of change in safety.

Southern Company was recently honored with the Safety on the Edge Excellence Award for their pioneering approach to safety—an award voted on by peers across industries. David and Chris share what the recognition means to them, how their leadership team drives cultural change, and the bold steps they’ve taken to move beyond traditional compliance-based safety.

Key themes in this conversation include:

• Why focusing only on injury rates misses the bigger picture
• The critical role of leadership in shaping culture and trust
• How Southern Company stopped outdated practices and doubled down on frontline engagement
• Lessons learned from serious injury and fatality (SIF) prevention efforts
• Preparing for the future: new technologies, a changing workforce, and the importance of continuous learning

This episode is an inspiring look at how one of the largest utilities in the U.S. is rethinking safety, engaging its people, and setting a new standard for the industry.

Malcolm and Corrie talk candidly about pushing boundaries in safety, the power of recognition, the importance of breaking silos, and the exciting lineup of speakers, workshops, and lifetime achievement award winners.

If you’re passionate about safety leadership, innovation, and connecting with the best minds in the profession, this episode is for you.

In this episode, Corrie lays out the vision for Safety on the EDGE TALKS:

• Why the protection of life — people, business, and processes — is our core mission
• The five themes that will guide every conversation
• Why the series won’t be a platform for self-promotion
• How pioneers, thought leaders, and innovators will shape future episodes

We’re diving deep into what works, what doesn’t, and what’s next for safety. No theatrics. No sugar-coating. Just honest conversations that unite practitioners, executives, and academics to build safer, smarter workplaces.

📅 Upcoming: Safety on the EDGE Conference — May 5–6, Baltimore, co-staged with the NSC Spring Conference.

🎙 Stay tuned for future episodes featuring the world’s leading safety thinkers.