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Register for GOALS GOA's 50th Anniversary, August 1–2 in Des Moines, IA. Tickets at gunowners.org/goals.

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From 13 years at Anderson to launching their own brand in eight months, they break down what the "poverty pony" label gets wrong, how a quality American-made rifle lands at around $600, and why they refuse to chase the race to the bottom.

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Much of the conversation is about women coming into a male-dominated industry. Alex says women are entering the space more than ever, and most of them are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She also pushes back on a mindset she sees in some women who want to dominate or exclude men, arguing the industry should be a respected, equal space and that men built it. Kaylee, who is five feet tall and wears a child-size large glove, talks about how few options existed for someone her size when she bought her first gun, and how the influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics, pointing to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work for people with limited mobility. Both hosts and Alex agree the community is growing stronger, not weaker, and that the Second Amendment community is made of many different subgroups that should row in the same direction.

Alex describes the impact photography has in reaching people who are gun curious or hesitant, using her own story of moving from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes. She talks about acting as a fly on the wall on shoots, keeping the focus on the brand and the people rather than herself, and about how shoots bring veterans and groups together. She shares her favorite and wildest shoots, including photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and being on a C-130 and a Sherman tank, and she walks through her growing collection from the Glock 43X to a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches. The episode closes with a spicy segment on flying with firearms, where John and Kaylee hammer the lack of standard TSA rules airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, theft of gear in transit, and the need for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state.

Questions this episode answers

What is Caliber Row and what does Alex do in the firearms industry?

Caliber Row is Alex's company, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing for firearms companies. She tells brands' stories visually, capturing the brand and its people rather than putting herself in the frame.

How did Alex go from shooting fashion in Chicago to firearms photography?

Alex shot fashion in Chicago with agencies like Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She applied on a whim to apparel company GrunStyle, was hired despite limited firearms experience, ran its photography department, and stayed six years as it moved from Chicago to Texas to Arizona.

What is it like to be a woman entering a male-dominated firearms industry?

Alex says women are entering the space more than ever and most are genuinely excited, educated, and skilled shooters. She argues the industry should be a respected, equal space and pushes back on the mindset that women should dominate or exclude men.

How has the growth of new gun owners changed firearm design and ergonomics?

The influx of new gun owners has driven innovation and better ergonomics for people who were underserved before. Hosts point to firearms like the EAA tip-up and the Smith and Wesson EZ that work well for shooters with smaller hands or limited mobility.

How can photography and storytelling reach people who are hesitant or gun curious?

Alex believes photography and videography make the space relatable and remind people they share common ground. She draws on her own move from anti-gun Chicago to pro-gun Texas, where people showed her the ropes, to connect with those who are hesitant or curious.

What were the wildest and coolest shoots Alex has ever captured?

Alex's most memorable shoots include photographing skydivers in a circle from the air and working on a C-130 and a Sherman tank. She describes acting as a fly on the wall, keeping the focus on the brand and the people in front of her.

What firearms are in Alex's personal collection, starting with her first gun?

Alex's first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection has grown to include a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches.

What problems do gun owners face when flying with firearms through TSA?

The hosts hammer the lack of standard TSA rules from airport to airport, a TSA website policy change that conflicts with the law requiring the owner to be present, and theft of gear in transit. They call for federal protections when a flight gets rerouted into an anti-gun state.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Alex from Caliber Row
• 00:28 — What Caliber Row is and what Alex shoots
• 01:12 — From Chicago fashion to GrunStyle and firearms
• 03:13 — Being a woman entering the firearms industry
• 05:30 — Wildest shoots: skydivers, C-130, Sherman tank
• 07:38 — Equality, not dominance, for women in the space
• 11:01 — A growing, more diverse industry and innovation
• 17:06 — Cliques and gatekeeping in the community
• 18:58 — The Second Amendment community is not monolithic
• 24:24 — How photography reaches the gun curious
• 27:18 — Alex's character arc from anti-gun to pro-gun
• 30:11 — Alex's collection from Glock 43X to MP5 and POF
• 32:42 — Spicy segment: flying with firearms and TSA
• 43:57 — Where to find Alex and GOALS Convention

About the guest

Alex is the founder of Caliber Row, where she specializes in photography, videography, and brand marketing within the firearms industry. Born and raised on the Southside of Chicago, she started out in the fashion industry, shooting for agencies including Wilhelmina, Factor, and Ford. She joined apparel company GrunStyle, ran its photography department, and stayed with the company for six years, moving with it from Chicago to Texas and later to Arizona. She grew up in a military family and has been doing firearms photography for over ten years. Her first firearm was a Glock 43X, and her collection now includes a SIG P320 Spectre Comp Blackout, an MP5, and a POF Rogue she shoots in accurate AR matches.

Key quotes

"So I am here to tell all y' all stories visually and creatively to represent your brands." — Alex

"I had to prove that I knew what I was talking about and what I was shooting and the quality of things" — Alex

"The day you stop learning is I think the day you become complacent." — Alex

"we're seeing more of a community built between the relationship of the company and the end consumer" — Kaylee

"photography and videography can be a huge source of visualization to just be relatable to people and to remind people that we all share the same space" — Alex

"once you want to learn, I think it's not, it's not as scary as people think it is" — Alex

The conversation moves into how the company operates and why staying close to the community matters. Tim says he is part of his own customer base, so if a design makes him laugh, he trusts that others will feel the same. The team works fast on pop culture moments, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment. They test ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the ones that get a response become patches. Michelle, who came from the corporate world and left it during COVID to run day-to-day operations, explains the value of having both trickle sellers and fast sellers so the business stays afloat between hits. Tim describes their model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, and says he won't sacrifice his values for profit.

Much of the episode is a broader talk about activism, media, and standing up for the Second Amendment. Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first. Kaylee points to GOA's tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that helps people check a representative's actual record. Both sides warn about bills written to play on emotion, with firearms regulations hidden inside unrelated legislation, and about a media environment that rewards outrage over reason. They also push back on cancel culture and the loss of humor, and on judging people on their own side by how they look. Patch Ops closes by sharing new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, their custom and retail focus, and the piece of candy that comes in every order.

Questions this episode answers

How did Patch Ops get started, and what was the original goal behind it?

Patch Ops began in 2018 when Tim and Michelle wanted to send their kids to private school and calculated they needed to make about $50 more a day to afford it. Tim, a Marine, made an 0331 MOS patch he wanted for himself, sent it to fellow Marines, and demand kept climbing from there.

Why was there a gap in the market for Marine Corps patches when the company launched?

When Patch Ops started, there was nothing on the market made for Marines. About three months after launch the Marine Corps put Velcro on its gear, which opened the market for Marine Corps patches almost overnight.

How does Patch Ops decide which pop culture moments are worth turning into a patch?

Tim treats himself as part of the customer base, so if a design makes him laugh he trusts others will feel the same. The team moves fast, posting a Let's Go Brandon design within two hours of the moment.

How does the company test new designs before committing to producing them?

Patch Ops tests ideas as stickers and shirts first, and the designs that get a strong response become patches. This lets the team see what lands before committing to a full patch run.

What does Tim mean by profit by volume, and why won't he chase the big single order?

Tim describes the model as profit by volume rather than chasing one big order, with both trickle sellers and fast sellers keeping the business afloat between hits. He says he won't sacrifice his values for profit.

Why does Tim say likes don't equal rights, and what does he want influencers to do?

Tim argues that likes don't equal rights and pushes influencers to influence their own communities first rather than just chasing engagement. The point is to turn online attention into real action for the Second Amendment, or 2A.

How do lawmakers hide gun control inside unrelated bills, and how does Gun Owners of America help people see through it?

Both sides warn that firearms regulations get hidden inside unrelated legislation written to play on emotion. Kaylee points to Gun Owners of America tools, including emailing your congressman in about 30 seconds and a voting scorecard that shows a representative's actual record.

What is the new NFC-chip patch technology Patch Ops filed a patent for?

Patch Ops shared new NFC-chip patches they filed a patent for, alongside their custom and retail focus. The episode notes a piece of candy comes in every order.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tim and Michelle from Patch Ops
• 00:19 — The 2018 origin story and the $50-a-day goal
• 01:28 — Velcro on Marine gear opens the market
• 02:12 — Betting the $3,000 nest egg and women in the 2A
• 04:53 — From military patches into pop culture
• 08:55 — Memes, trends, and turning designs around in two hours
• 11:18 — Trickle sellers versus fast sellers
• 13:51 — Staying close to the community over chasing the dollar
• 17:52 — Be the example and influence your own community first
• 20:53 — Momentum and emailing Congress in 30 seconds
• 28:32 — How bills hide gun control and play on emotion
• 38:07 — From the Soapbox: comedy, cancel culture, and taking a joke
• 42:52 — Welcoming people in instead of pushing them out
• 46:50 — NFC-chip patches, custom work, and the candy in every order

About the guest

Tim is a co-founder of Patch Ops and a Marine Corps veteran who served in the infantry as a machine gunner, with the MOS 0331. He started the company in 2018 after an Army friend introduced him to patches, beginning with a Marine MOS patch he wanted for himself. He also runs another company as an engineer. Michelle co-founded Patch Ops and runs the day-to-day operations. She came from the corporate world and left it during COVID, about four years before this episode, to work for the company full time, and she is married to Tim. The couple is active politically at the local and state level.

Key quotes

"we needed to make $50 more a day to afford the private school system" — Tim

"we're part of our own customer base" — Tim

"I'm not going to sacrifice my values for profit" — Tim

"likes don't equal rights" — Tim

"Encourage creates courage" — Michelle

"The Constitution restricts the government, not the people" — Tim

That realization became the 2A Diversity Shoot. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would come, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Colandro pushed him to keep running it until the room filled, then overfilled past fire code. Today Tony runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four different ranges across New Jersey, ran one in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association, and the events now sell out. Each event mixes pizza, raffle prizes, jokes, and a lot of shooting, with the goal of normalizing firearms ownership for people of every background.

The conversation turns to a blunt message about complacency. Tony, originally from Virginia, describes watching his home state go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over because people stopped participating and stopped voting in local and primary elections. He argues that local elections matter more than the presidential race, that gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that even people worried about being put on a list can still fund others' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. The From the Soapbox segment gets spicy, including Tony's take questioning how 'don't tread on me' squares with backing the thin blue line, and a running High Point versus Staccato bit. Kaylee closes with her own take that gun owners are getting elections wrong by accepting apathy, noting GOA's website lets you act in about 33 seconds and that five minutes a week could be transformative.

Questions this episode answers

How did Tony Simon get into firearms and Second Amendment advocacy?

Tony Simon grew up on a Virginia farm, shot on his high school air rifle team, and served in the Marine Corps before moving to New Jersey. A 2012 class with an NRA certified instructor friend rekindled his interest, and after Sandy Hook prompted 76 New Jersey bills he saw as anti-gun, he got into advocacy.

What is the 2A Diversity Shoot and how did it start?

The 2A Diversity Shoot is a series of events that bring in people who don't fit the assumed gun owner profile, teach them firearms law, and connect them with Second Amendment advocates. Tony Simon launched it in 2015 after partnering with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range.

Why does Tony Simon say local and primary elections matter more than the presidential election?

Tony Simon argues that local and primary elections decide the policies and officials closest to gun owners, so they carry more weight than the presidential race. He says gun owners say all the right things but perform none of the actions, and that consistent local participation is what protects rights.

What lesson does Tony Simon draw from Virginia's shift on gun laws?

Tony Simon watched his home state of Virginia go from a place that would march on the Capitol to one that rolled over once people stopped voting in local and primary elections. His takeaway is that complacency, not a single election, is what flips a state's gun politics.

How can gun owners take action even if they're worried about being put on a list?

Tony Simon says even people worried about being on a list can still fund other advocates' work, vote, and be responsible gun owners. Kaylee adds that Gun Owners of America's website lets you act in about 33 seconds, and that five minutes a week could be transformative.

What happened at the first diversity shoot event?

The first event drew four people out of the 27 who said they would attend, plus a New Jersey State Police firearms officer who showed up posing as a regular attendee. Anthony Colandro pushed Tony Simon to keep running it until the room filled, and it later overfilled past fire code.

How big has the 2A Diversity Shoot grown?

Tony Simon now runs diversity shoots every two weeks at four New Jersey ranges, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and held one in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. The sold-out events mix shooting with pizza, raffles, and jokes to normalize firearms ownership for everyone.

Where can people find the 2A Diversity Shoot and follow Tony Simon?

Tony Simon runs the 2A Diversity Shoot at diversityshoot.com and can be followed on Instagram at simonsaystrain.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Tony Simon, the gun bunny
• 01:55 — From a Virginia farm to New Jersey gun laws
• 03:30 — Sandy Hook, 76 bills, and getting into advocacy
• 04:19 — Starting the diversity shoot with Anthony Colandro
• 05:39 — The first event and the undercover cop
• 07:08 — Growing through COVID and across the state
• 09:40 — Have you seen victories in New Jersey
• 10:54 — Fight back: vote local and primaries
• 13:30 — How fast a state turns from red to blue
• 16:12 — Holding the pro-2A side accountable
• 19:33 — Normalizing firearms for every background
• 27:53 — From the Soapbox: spicy takes
• 30:38 — Apathy, ignorance, and 33 seconds to act
• 36:18 — Where to find Tony and goodbyes

About the guest

Tony Simon is the founder of the 2A Diversity Shoot (diversityshoot.com). Born and raised on a farm in Virginia, he shot on his high school air rifle team and joined the Marine Corps. After getting out, he moved to New Jersey, where firearms ID card requirements stalled his gun ownership. In 2012 he took a class from an NRA certified instructor friend and became an NRA certified instructor himself in rifle, pistol, and shotgun. After Sandy Hook, when New Jersey's legislature put forward 76 bills he saw as impeding gun rights, he got into advocacy and spent three years testifying, often as the only black person out of 200 people testifying. In 2015 he partnered with Anthony Colandro of the Gun for Hire range to launch the diversity shoot. He now runs events every two weeks at four ranges across New Jersey, ran events in Pennsylvania for three years, and did a diversity shoot in Omaha with the Nebraska Firearms Owners Association. He says he has been in New Jersey since the early 90s.

Key quotes

"Being a patriot isn't a part time job." — Tony Simon

"Your local election is more important than the presidential election." — Tony Simon

"We have so many gun owners. Again, they say all the right things, but they perform none of the actions." — Tony Simon

"When you say don't tread on me, but you support the thin blue line, who do you think's doing the treading?" — Tony Simon

"We have decided that apathy is acceptable and then we want to complain when things happen to the second amendment rather than understanding that ignorance is a curable disease." — Kaylee

"I owe no loyalty to a political party." — Tony Simon

The conversation centers on the company's product philosophy and its newest guns. John explains the late CEO Martin Tuason's stance on keeping firearms reliable and affordable, and why Rock Island refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive. He walks through the patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0, a pistol that took seven years to develop and that he says shoots like it has a compensator with a standard slide and barrel. He also covers the new Pack Out folding firearm in 14-inch and 18-inch barrel versions, the RIA USA factory in Cedar City, and the .22 TCM round and its 9R redesign that now fits Glock and CZ magazines. The TCM line is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is working to finalize.

The episode closes with the From the Soapbox segment on a knowledge gap among post-COVID first-time gun owners. John argues the information is out there and the real problem is whether people seek it and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He makes the case that one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good, and that the community gets stronger when experienced owners remember what it felt like to know nothing. He also explains Arms Corps U, his YouTube broadcast built to answer customer questions and drive demand for Rock Island products by name through distributors.

Questions this episode answers

How did John McClane go from a self-described closet gun owner to a sponsored Team Armscore competitor?

He hid his first rifle under his bed for a year and a half, then shot USPSA as a C-class competitor. A chance EMT call near Pahrump connected him to the Armscore and Rock Island owner's family, leading to a developmental program, a sponsorship, and his role as national training manager.

What is the RVS recoil system in the 5.0, and why does John think it could become an industry standard?

The RVS is a patented recoil system in Rock Island Armory's 5.0 pistol, which took seven years to develop and, McClane says, shoots like it has a compensator while using a standard slide and barrel. He believes that once the patent runs out, other manufacturers will copy the system and make it the new standard.

Why does Rock Island Armory keep its prices low instead of raising them to seem more premium?

McClane points to late CEO Martin Tuason's philosophy of keeping firearms reliable and affordable. The company refuses to raise prices just to look more expensive, because a higher price could put a gun out of reach for a buyer who would otherwise afford it.

What is the difference between Rock Island and Rock Island Armory USA?

Rock Island Armory traces to a budget-friendly firearms company from the Philippines, while Rock Island Armory USA is the brand's domestic factory operation in Cedar City.

How does the Pack Out folding firearm work, and what are the two barrel versions?

The Pack Out is a new folding firearm from Rock Island Armory, offered in a 14-inch barrel version and an 18-inch barrel version.

What is the .22 TCM round, and why is SAAMI spec holding it back?

The .22 TCM is a Rock Island Armory cartridge whose 9R redesign now fits Glock and CZ magazines. Its broader rollout is held back only by SAAMI spec, which the company is still working to finalize.

Is there a knowledge gap with post-COVID first-time gun owners, and whose responsibility is it to close it?

McClane argues the information is already out there, so the real questions are whether new owners seek it out and whether the person behind the gun counter has the patience to help. He says one bad interaction can turn a new shooter off for good.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and the retired fancy pants
• 01:16 — John's backstory and getting into the industry
• 02:43 — From C class to Team Armscore sponsorship
• 04:48 — Remembering CEO Martin Tuason
• 07:42 — Reliable and affordable: the pricing philosophy
• 10:57 — RIA USA, Cedar City, and the Pack Out
• 13:34 — The patented RVS recoil system in the 5.0
• 15:10 — From custom build to production gun
• 20:19 — Will fear of pushback hold back innovation?
• 22:00 — The .22 TCM round and the 9R redesign
• 28:18 — Soapbox: the post-COVID knowledge gap
• 32:15 — Patience behind the gun counter
• 38:02 — Arms Corps U and asking for products by name
• 41:26 — Where to find John and Rock Island

About the guest

John McClane is the national training manager at Rock Island Armory / Armscore, a role created for him after years as a sponsored competitor. He started shooting USPSA at the local level as a C-class shooter and has since earned multiple Grand Master cards, competing on Team Armscore and placing on the podium at Three Gun Nation and the Single Stack Nationals. He first met the owner's family of Armscore and Rock Island while working as an EMT for American Medical Response, responding to a car accident between Vegas and Pahrump. He shot the 5.0 at the world shoot in South Africa. He also runs Arms Corps U, a YouTube broadcast, and FPS Holsters, a holster company he started in his garage.

Key quotes

"So it all started when my parents told me that guns were bad." — John McClane

"I bought my first rifle, and I hid it under my bed for a year and a half without my parents knowing." — John McClane

"If I up the price by $100, someone might not be able to afford my gun anymore." — John McClane

"I'm honestly a firm believer that once our patent runs out on that RVs recoil system, I would not be surprised if you started seeing that recoil system becoming the new standard for a lot of companies." — John McClane

"That's actually just the start of your problems because in order to develop that gun and create the first version of it took you three years." — John McClane

"So I think the information's out there. The question is whether or not the person wants to seek it out." — John McClane

"You can make a lifetime customer out of a bad experience if you handle it correctly." — John McClane

"We can make this community so much stronger if we just stopped self destructing ourselves." — John McClane

Roy lays out how he picks video ideas. He checks whether Paul already covered a topic, then puts his own spin on it, and he pulls heavily from viewer comments and emails. The channel aims at the common man rather than the latest black guns, new Staccatos, or every AR platform. That means older firearms, ammo comparisons, and lower-recoil calibers like the .32, .22, and .25 that older shooters and people with arthritic hands keep asking about. Roy walks through a recent video on transitioning from a long gun to a handgun for someone who isn't in full battle-belt defense mode, and he shares his interest in historic law enforcement events like the Newhall shootout and old 1960s and 70s police training films. He brings a long firsthand view of the field, from the switch from revolvers to Glocks to carrying an M16A1 in Marine Corps boot camp.

The soapbox segment turns to Oregon. Roy explains that 114, which would ban magazines over 10 rounds and require a permit and a class to buy a firearm, is sitting with the Oregon Supreme Court, and that the legislature is already writing new laws to keep the fight going. He wants to see the data behind the claim that a 10-round limit saves lives, points out there is no exception for someone with his age and experience to skip the class, and warns the rules would flood sheriff's offices and could put small gun stores out of business during a long pause in sales. He ties the shift to the greater Portland metro area outvoting the rest of the state and points listeners to groups like the Oregon Firearms Coalition. Roy closes on review integrity. Paul never took sponsors, and Roy is entering that world carefully, giving honest reviews even when a product fails. You can find the channel on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms, still listed under Paul as a nod to him.

Questions this episode answers

How did Roy Harrell end up taking over Paul Harrell's firearms YouTube channel?

When his brother Paul got sick, the two discussed the channel's future and Paul asked Roy to take it over. They worked on videos together for the nine months before Paul passed, with Paul giving him pointers along the way.

What is it like for Roy to go from behind the camera to in front of it?

Roy is candid that being on camera is intimidating and not a one-take job. Unlike Paul, he doesn't write out full scripts, so the crew now films shorter monologues to keep the takes manageable.

How does Roy decide what videos to make, and how does he handle topics Paul already covered?

Roy checks whether Paul already covered a topic, then puts his own spin on it. He pulls his ideas heavily from viewer comments and emails.

Why does the channel focus on older firearms and lower-recoil calibers instead of the latest AR platforms?

The channel aims at the common man rather than the newest black guns or AR platforms. That means older firearms, ammo comparisons, and lower-recoil calibers like the .32, .22, and .25 that older shooters and people with arthritic hands keep asking about.

What is Oregon's Measure 114 and where does it stand legally?

Measure 114 would ban magazines over 10 rounds and require a permit and a class to buy a firearm. Roy says it is sitting with the Oregon Supreme Court while the legislature already writes new laws to keep the fight going.

Why does Roy believe the permit and magazine law would hurt sheriff's offices and small gun stores?

Roy warns the permit requirement would flood sheriff's offices and that a long pause in sales could put small gun stores out of business. He also wants to see the data behind the claim that a 10-round limit saves lives and notes there is no exception for someone with his age and experience to skip the class.

How does Roy handle reviews when a product doesn't meet its claims, and why does sponsorship integrity matter to him?

Roy gives honest reviews even when a product fails. Paul never took sponsors, so Roy is entering that world carefully to protect the channel's integrity.

Where can listeners find Roy and the channel?

The channel is on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms. It is still listed under Paul Harrell's name as a nod to him.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Intro: Roy Harrell, the man behind the camera
• 00:41 — Roy's backstory and how he took over the channel
• 02:05 — Stepping in front of the camera
• 04:53 — Growing up around firearms and a love of teaching
• 07:13 — How Roy comes up with video ideas
• 09:09 — Serving the common man, not the black guns
• 10:18 — Transitioning from long gun to handgun
• 11:58 — The interest in .22, .25, and .32 calibers
• 15:01 — Historic shootouts and old police training films
• 19:43 — Living through the shift from revolvers to Glocks
• 21:04 — Revolvers, capacity, and how much ammo you really need
• 24:35 — Soapbox: Oregon's 114
• 32:54 — How Oregon got here and how to push back
• 34:50 — Honest reviews and entering the sponsor world
• 40:02 — Where to find the channel and closing

About the guest

Roy Harrell is the brother of the late Paul Harrell and the person who now runs Paul's firearms YouTube channel, which he took over at Paul's request after Paul got sick. He has been a law enforcement officer for 37 years, starting in 1988 carrying a revolver, and the host introduces him as a former deputy sheriff. He is a longtime hunter safety and firearms instructor, the same work his and Paul's father did. He went through Marine Corps boot camp with an M16A1 and served as active duty Air Force, including time in Honduras. He has lived in Oregon his entire life. The channel can be found on Instagram and Facebook under Harrell Brothers in Arms and is still listed under Paul Harrell's name as a nod to him.

Key quotes

"And he basically said, why don't you take over the channel?" — Roy Harrell

"Just because it's old doesn't mean it's wrong, you know." — Roy Harrell

"We give honest reviews on the things we evaluate" — Roy Harrell

"I would love to see their data on where they say those are saving lives." — Roy Harrell

"We are very delicately entering that world because we want to keep our integrity." — Roy Harrell

"They're all really good. And then it's a matter of finding what fits you the best and your needs the best." — Roy Harrell

From that corset the line grew into thigh holsters built like shapewear, a bra holster, and concealed carry leggings. Anna walks John through the design priorities that separate a real holster from cloth: trigger protection, retention that does not slow your draw, consistent positioning that conceals on a woman's "squishy" spots, and a natural draw stroke that does not flag anyone with the muzzle. She also covers training as a mom, including running drills one handed while moving a child out of the way and covering a baby's ears on the draw. Her EDC is the P365, and she names her company after her grandfather, who taught her guns should be respected and not feared.

The conversation gets personal and practical. Anna wrote a book, Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense, centered on mindset as the first line of defense. She shares her own history of abuse and the night a false alarm finally broke fear's hold on her. The hosts cover the media narrative around domestic abuse survivors and firearms, the "gun bunny" debate in the industry, her strategy of marketing to women through the men who buy for them, and detailed situational awareness habits for parents at the store and in the parking lot. She closes by teasing new products, including a first collection of smart holsters that integrate with a cell phone as part of a safety plan.

Questions this episode answers

How did Anna Taylor go from a frustrated new gun owner to founding a concealed carry company?

In 2013, as a stay at home mom of four in Kansas City, Anna Taylor got her concealed carry permit but found no comfortable, safe way to carry the gun she was sold. With passion and a sense of duty rather than formal qualifications, she built a holster prototype and went on to launch Dean Adams.

What was the very first holster prototype she made, and how did it work?

She cut out a computer mousepad and sewed it to her postpartum wrap corset, which made the gun disappear under her T-shirt. After many design iterations, that first prototype became her concealed carry corset.

What makes a holster actually safe, and why is retention more than just cloth?

Anna says a real holster needs trigger protection, retention that holds the gun without slowing your draw, and consistent positioning that conceals on a woman's softer spots. It also has to allow a natural draw stroke that never points the muzzle at anyone.

How can a mom train and carry while holding or wearing a child?

Anna trains for it directly, running one handed drills while moving a child out of the way and covering a baby's ears on the draw. Her thinking is that under stress you default to how you've trained, so she practices the real scenario.

What is Anna's book Intuitive by Design about, and what changed her relationship with fear?

Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense centers on mindset as the first line of defense. Anna shares her own history of abuse and the night a false alarm finally broke fear's hold on her.

How should domestic abuse survivors think about owning and carrying a firearm?

Anna and the hosts discuss the media narrative around abuse survivors and guns, and her own experience as a survivor who decided she would do anything to stand between her kids and a predator. The episode frames firearm ownership as part of that survivor's safety plan.

What is the "gun bunny" debate, and how has the industry changed for women in 13 years?

The "gun bunny" debate weighs the industry's sexualized marketing against educated, serious female shooters. Anna reflects on how the gun store experience and the market for women have shifted over the 13 years since she started Dean Adams.

What situational awareness habits does Anna teach parents for the store and parking lot?

Anna teaches detailed awareness routines for parents at the store and in the parking lot, built on the idea that predators look for easy, weak targets. She also covers marketing to women through the men who buy firearms for them.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Anna Taylor, founder of Dean Adams
• 00:38 — The 2013 backstory and the first gun
• 02:05 — The mousepad and corset prototype
• 03:43 — Walking through the product line
• 09:56 — Has the gun store experience improved for women?
• 12:31 — The book on fear and self defense
• 16:40 — Making the decision to act before the moment
• 18:17 — Training and carrying with kids
• 23:10 — Domestic abuse survivors and the Second Amendment
• 29:09 — Soapbox: gun bunnies vs. educated women
• 30:21 — Marketing to women through the men
• 34:54 — The next trends in women's concealed carry
• 40:02 — Situational awareness for parents
• 45:16 — Where to find Anna and what's coming next

About the guest

Anna Taylor is the founder and CEO of Dean Adams, a concealed carry holster company she started in 2013. At the time she was a stay at home mom with four young kids living in the Grandview area of Kansas City, where her husband at the time traveled a lot. After a frustrating experience trying to carry her first gun, she built a holster prototype from a computer mousepad sewn to her postpartum corset, then pursued firearms education and instructor training. Thirteen years later her line includes the concealed carry corset, thigh holsters, a bra holster, and concealed carry leggings. She is also the author of Intuitive by Design: A Woman's Guide to Fear and Self Defense, teaches private firearms classes, and offers a line of e-learning material. Her company is named after her grandfather, who taught her that guns should be respected and not feared.

Key quotes

"So with no qualification other than passion and a sense of duty, I thought, I'm going to do something about this." — Anna Taylor

"You have to have trigger protection, you have to have safe retention, but that doesn't slow down your draw." — Anna Taylor

"Because when the fear hits, when the emergency happens, you will default to how you've trained." — Anna Taylor

"I made the decision, I will do anything to stand between my kids and a predator." — Anna Taylor

"Predators are looking for easy, weak targets." — Anna Taylor

"He was big on family God, tradition, guns, his hunting, and taught me that guns should be respected and not feared." — Anna Taylor

A through-line of the episode is Joe's training philosophy. He measures everything against three goals: the desired level of accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes. He built the Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 during COVID after learning to improve on roughly 50 to 100 rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire repetitions for free. He explains why isolating a skill in dry fire and fixing it raises performance, and why understanding the why behind a drill matters more than burning a thousand rounds a day on flashy work.

Joe is direct about the biggest misconception students bring to advanced classes: they expect to walk away a far better shooter after two days. He compares it to taking a gym class for two days in a row and expecting to be ripped. The real value of a class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why. The conversation moves to his move from Florida to California, the gun culture and growing matches he's found there, the new laws affecting California gun owners, and his view that growing the competition community can shift the state's politics. He closes on gear: he runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point.

Questions this episode answers

What does high-level firearms training actually give you, and what can't it give you in two days?

Joe Farewell says the real value of an advanced class is the homework and the understanding of what to train and why, not an overnight skill jump. Expecting to walk away a far better shooter after two days is like taking a gym class twice and expecting to be ripped.

How is competitive shooting structured, from local matches up to the IPSC World Shoot?

It runs from local matches up through nationals to the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, which Joe Farewell calls the Olympics of practical shooting. He represented Team USA there, taking silver in 2019 and gold in 2024.

What's involved in traveling overseas with your firearms and ammunition for a match?

Competing abroad means working through the firearm and ammunition paperwork each country requires before you can travel with your guns and ammo. Joe Farewell did this to shoot the IPSC Rifle World Shoot internationally.

What are the three goals Joe measures every shooting skill against?

Joe Farewell measures everything against accuracy, speed, and consistency. He argues shooting is shooting whether the purpose is competition, self defense, or military use, so the fundamentals stay the same even as the application changes.

What is dry fire, and why does it raise your performance for free?

Dry fire is repetition practice without live ammunition, which lets you isolate a single skill and fix it at no cost. Joe Farewell improved on roughly 50 to 100 live rounds a week by doing millions of dry fire reps, and built his Dry Fire Mastery programs in 2020 around that approach.

Why did Joe leave law enforcement to teach firearms full time?

Joe Farewell spent seven years in policing in Florida as a SWAT sniper team leader before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach full time. He now runs Farewell Firearms Training, focused mostly on law enforcement, military, and instructor development.

What is the gun culture and competition scene actually like in California?

After moving from Florida to California, Joe Farewell found a real gun culture and growing matches there, alongside new laws affecting California gun owners. He believes growing the competition community can shift the state's politics.

Does expensive gear make you a better shooter, or does it get in the way?

Joe Farewell runs Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles, but shows up to teach law enforcement with a stock gun so the work, not the equipment, makes the point. The skill comes from training, not the hardware.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Joe Farewell
• 00:51 — Two paths: competition and law enforcement
• 01:54 — How competition shooting is structured
• 03:37 — Traveling overseas with guns and ammo
• 06:18 — The shooting community in Europe
• 08:25 — Leaving law enforcement to teach full time
• 11:26 — The classes Joe teaches and the three goals
• 14:36 — Dry Fire Crew and the Dry Fire Mastery programs
• 18:57 — New gun owners and what to buy first
• 21:06 — Moving from Florida to California
• 29:30 — From the Soapbox: the flaws students bring to class
• 34:35 — Does gear make the shooter?
• 41:36 — Gift from PSA and wrap-up

About the guest

Joe Farewell is a former law enforcement officer and SWAT sniper team leader who spent seven years in policing in Florida before leaving toward the end of 2018 to teach firearms full time. He is a competitive shooter who represented Team USA at the IPSC Rifle World Shoot, winning silver in 2019 and gold in 2024. He founded Farewell Firearms Training, where he trains civilians, law enforcement, and military units with a practical, real-world approach, and his current focus is mostly law enforcement and military classes along with instructor development. In 2020 he started the Dry Fire Mastery programs, including multigun, competition handgun, carbine, and home defense courses. He started shooting matches around age 19 or 20, has about 15 years doing this, and recently moved from Florida to California. He shoots Atlas pistols and Cobalt rifles.

Key quotes

"So when you look at the goals of it, it doesn't matter what the purpose is, the fundamentals are still going to be the same." — Joe Farewell

"By isolating it in dry fire and fixing it, it will skyrocket your performance and it's free." — Joe Farewell

"If you can build a solid foundation of the skill set, the hard skills that you need to be able to accomplish the task, then you can focus on the tactical problem at hand." — Joe Farewell

"The number one misconception that most people think when they go to a class is that they're going to walk away and be a significantly better shooter after a two day." — Joe Farewell

"the only way to get better is by pushing yourself outside of what's comfortable." — Joe Farewell

"Knowing how to train and what to train and why to train those things I think is what you should be going into more advanced class looking for." — Joe Farewell

Much of the conversation is about why the other side keeps gaining ground. Muller argues that groups like Moms Demand Action are intentional, organized, and funded, citing a roughly 60 million dollar annual budget on their side against a David and Goliath gap on hers. She points to the Biden administration's Office of Gun Violence Prevention as government money that helped states write red flag laws and universal background checks, and she describes asking the White House for a Second Amendment counsel so the movement's organizations can strategize and row in the same direction. Her answer to the funding gap is participation: become a 40 or 50 dollar member of every Second Amendment organization, take one new person to the polls, and show up for the midterms.

The episode closes on practical advice and a personal mission. Muller pushes listeners to be intentional, to study the arguments so they can actually answer why someone needs an AR-15 or why universal background checks are a bad idea, and to keep talking to people and media outlets even after being burned. She makes the case that women can carry the gun-rights message in a way legacy voices cannot, wants firearms and hunter safety education back in schools, and frames competition's pseudo stress as the real training that translates to carrying. She also shares the big announcement: Women for Gun Rights is moving to a paid membership model and launching a 501(c)(3) called Women for Gun Safety to reclaim the word safety, because in her words guns make you safer.

Questions this episode answers

What does the teal shirt 'educate, not legislate' strategy actually mean, and where did it come from?

It is the message on the signature teal shirts worn by Dianna Muller's DC Project women, who meet legislators as gun owners to educate them rather than push new laws. The idea grew from Muller asking whether professional shooters should be educating the people inside government buildings.

How did a retired police officer and competitive shooter end up founding the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights?

Dianna Muller spent 22 years with the Tulsa Police Department before retiring to shoot professionally, and she ignored politics until she stood before a congressman and realized shooters needed to educate lawmakers. She built the DC Project around one woman per state, then took it to the states as Women for Gun Rights.

Why does Dianna Muller say women can carry the Second Amendment message more effectively than traditional gun owners?

Muller argues that women can carry the Second Amendment (2A) message in a way legacy voices cannot, reaching audiences that traditional gun owners struggle to reach. She pairs that with a personal mission to build firearms that actually fit women rather than 'shrink it and pink it' versions.

How big is the funding gap between gun-rights groups and organizations like Moms Demand Action?

Muller describes a David and Goliath gap, citing a roughly 60 million dollar annual budget on the other side, and calls groups like Moms Demand Action intentional, organized, and funded. She says government money under the Office of Gun Violence Prevention helped states write red flag and background check laws.

What is a Second Amendment counsel and why is Muller asking the White House for one?

It is a coordinating role Muller has asked the White House to create so the movement's organizations can strategize and row in the same direction. She frames it as a way to close the organizational gap with well-funded, intentional opponents on the other side.

What can an ordinary gun owner do before the midterms to make a difference?

Muller urges participation: become a 40 or 50 dollar member of every Second Amendment (2A) organization, take one new person to the polls, and show up for the midterms. She also says to study the arguments so you can answer why someone needs an AR-15 or why universal background checks are a bad idea.

How should you actually contact your legislators, and who should you ask for when you call?

Muller tells gun owners to meet their own state legislators in person as gun owners, the same model that built the DC Project. Her point is that it is not enough for you to know their name; they need to know your name.

What new organization and membership changes is Women for Gun Rights launching?

Women for Gun Rights is moving to a paid membership model and launching a 501(c)(3) called Women for Gun Safety. Muller says the goal is to reclaim the word safety, because in her view guns make you safer.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Dianna Muller and the road to advocacy
• 02:01 — The teal shirts and educate, not legislate
• 02:41 — A David and Goliath funding gap
• 03:12 — Paid membership coming in 2026
• 05:01 — Why women carry the message differently
• 07:42 — Government money and the fight in the states
• 10:57 — Be prepared to have the hard conversations
• 14:20 — Thirty years of the anti-gun message
• 16:14 — Take one person to the polls
• 19:07 — Building guns for women, beyond shrink it and pink it
• 22:25 — Winning hearts and minds in Virginia
• 28:55 — Soapbox: frustration with Republicans in power
• 31:37 — How to actually contact your legislators
• 42:46 — Firearms education and hunter safety in schools
• 51:13 — The 501(c)(3) reveal: Women for Gun Safety

About the guest

Dianna Muller is a retired law enforcement officer, professional competitive shooter, and Second Amendment advocate, best known as the founder of the DC Project and Women for Gun Rights. She spent 22 years with the Tulsa Police Department before retiring a little early to shoot professionally after picking up sponsorships. She started the DC Project by inviting one woman from every state to meet their legislators in Washington as gun owners, then expanded the effort to the state level under the Women for Gun Rights name. She shoots three gun: rifle, pistol, and shotgun.

Key quotes

"You'll see our signature teal shirts that say educate, not legislate." — Dianna Muller

"I want to be safe, and disarming me doesn't make me any safer." — Dianna Muller

"I love people when they say I don't pay attention to politics, but politics pays attention to you." — Dianna Muller

"It's not enough for you to know their name. They need to know your name." — Dianna Muller

"We're trying to take back that name because guns make you safer." — Dianna Muller

"But for the most part, girls don't care. We just want stuff that runs." — Dianna Muller

Ryan walks through how the accessory market has driven real cultural shifts. SB Tactical's brace gave birth to the AR15 pistol, suppressor brands weren't even allowed at SHOT Show in the early 2000s, and he believes the force reset category is the next shift. He explains that the FRS is a drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution that follows the letter of the law, and that Atrius wants it to reach common use across the biggest addressable market. He and Malcolm expected to get targeted but thought it would take two years. Instead it happened in about six months. He credits the community, the dealer network, and shouts out Tim Hoffman and Hoffman Tactical for carrying them through. He also points to the product's business impact. Dealers have called to say his product is selling so well they don't have to lay off their teams, and he calls it one of the few categories not feeling the "Trump slump."

The conversation moves into advocacy and the meaning of the Second Amendment. Ryan argues weapons are an apolitical issue because everyone should have the right to firearms, and he says the system is weaponized against gun culture through debanking, fintech companies that won't support firearms businesses, and marketing agencies that won't work with gun brands. He frames the Second Amendment plainly. It's about overthrowing a tyrannical government, not just hunting or self-defense, and reminds listeners it's "the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs." He talks about normalizing gear and capability instead of gatekeeping it, having fun in the commercial space, and the new diversity of gun owners, including legal immigrants discovering the right to defend themselves. Looking at 2026, Ryan wants the FRS in the mainstream, an FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support so a dealer's shelf has weapon systems with an FRS already installed. He closes by pointing people to Atrius on Instagram, and the show wraps with details on GOALS 2026, GOA's 50th anniversary celebration in Des Moines, Iowa, August 1st and 2nd.

Questions this episode answers

What is the FRS (force reset selector) from Atrius Development Group and how does it work?

The FRS is Atrius Development Group's drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution that Ryan says follows the letter of the law. Atrius wants it to reach common use across the largest addressable market.

How has the accessory market driven cultural shifts in the firearms industry?

Ryan points to accessories that reshaped the market: SB Tactical's brace gave rise to the AR15 pistol, and suppressor brands went from being barred at SHOT Show in the early 2000s to mainstream. He sees the force reset category as the next shift.

Why does Atrius believe the force reset category is the next big shift after braces and suppressors?

Ryan frames the FRS as a compliant, drop-in semi-automatic solution following braces and suppressors as the next category to reach common use. He and co-founder Malcolm expected to get targeted in two years, but it happened in about six months.

How is the FRS helping local dealers and mom-and-pop shops survive a slow market?

Ryan says dealers have called to tell him the product is selling so well they don't have to lay off their teams. He calls force reset one of the few categories not feeling the slowdown he refers to as the Trump slump.

What does Ryan believe the real purpose of the Second Amendment is?

Ryan argues the Second Amendment is strictly about the ability to overthrow a tyrannical government, not just hunting or self-defense. He reminds listeners it is the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs.

How is the system weaponized against gun businesses through debanking and marketing?

Ryan says gun culture is targeted through debanking, fintech companies that won't support firearms businesses, and marketing agencies that refuse to work with gun brands. He views the right to firearms as an apolitical issue.

What does Ryan see happening with the FRS category in 2026?

For 2026 Ryan wants the FRS in the mainstream, a full FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support so a dealer's shelf can carry complete weapon systems with an FRS already installed.

Why does Ryan believe collaboration between firearms brands has replaced rivalry?

Ryan describes the accessory space as a place to be an ally to everybody and an enemy to nobody, and says brands increasingly have to work together for everyone to win. He frames Atrius as an extension of a manufacturer's product development team.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Ryan and Atrius Development Group
• 01:36 — Growing up a gun nerd and his why
• 03:05 — Ryan's top five guns of all time
• 04:49 — The old guard, collaboration, and the cultural shift
• 08:13 — How the accessory market grew from compliance
• 09:47 — SB Tactical, the AR15 pistol, and what comes next
• 11:13 — The FRS adoption that happened in six months
• 15:58 — California's accessory ban and supporting dealers
• 18:48 — The Trump slump and saving mom-and-pop shops
• 21:55 — Government overreach and the drive toward advocacy
• 27:43 — The real purpose of the Second Amendment
• 31:31 — SHOT Show, the community, and normalizing the gear
• 38:28 — Soapbox: absolutists on the Second Amendment
• 40:09 — 2026, the FRS ecosystem, and inline SKU support
• 45:55 — Dave at Matador Arms and playing for keeps
• 53:39 — Where to find Atrius and GOALS 2026 wrap-up

About the guest

Ryan is a co-founder of Atrius Development Group, which he started with his best friend Malcolm. He has been in the firearms industry since he was around 19 or 20 years old. He and Malcolm both served in the military, and his father was ex-LAPD. Before founding Atrius, he spent almost his entire career at one company, starting by packing boxes, where he helped launch close to 700 accessories in support of high-volume platforms. Atrius makes the FRS (force reset selector), a drop-in, reverse-compatible semi-automatic solution. He previously released a P80 frame with Dave of Matador Arms.

Key quotes

"The Second amendment is strictly about overthrowing a tyrannical government. That's the whole sole purpose." — Ryan

"it's the Bill of Rights, not the Bill of Needs." — Ryan

"I believe weapons is an apolitical stance because everyone should have the right to firearms." — Ryan

"we have dealers call us, tell us, like, hey, Ryan, I just want you to know, like, your product is doing so well, I don't have to lay off my team" — Ryan

"I think people are starting to realize, like, you kind of have to, like, work together in order for everyone to win." — Ryan

"I think everyone has an obligation to understand where it comes from, you know, because it's not just about hunting." — Ryan

"the brick and mortar is the lifeblood of this industry." — John

Much of the conversation is about why a marketing agency keeps taking on an event this size. Ben and Will are blunt that the Gundies is separate from Forge and isn't a money-maker. They put roughly 3,500 man hours into it this year on top of running the agency, and every year they have the same internal debate about whether it's worth the headache. They keep going because they believe in the industry and the community, and because the event grows everyone together. A creator who misses top five still gets new eyes from people who'd never seen them, since voters have to look at every name in a category. The hosts back this up from backstage: even Hickok, with 10 million subscribers, was genuinely excited to win, and John says he's watched sub counts climb after the Gundies post. Ben and Will also address this year's drama head on, saying voting has always been organic, that more followers means more votes is a volume game and not rigging, and that they said their piece and won't turn the drama machine on.

The episode closes with two forward-looking pieces. First, the Gundies is becoming a standalone brand and will no longer go dark after the show. It's launching its first-ever trivia night at GOA's GOALS event, a 2A-themed game with real prizes from sponsors including title sponsor PSA, and the hosts say they'll also work with Rumble on it. GOALS runs August 1st and 2nd in Des Moines, Iowa, marking GOA's 50th anniversary, and Forge is providing Saturday night's entertainment. Second, in the Soapbox segment, Ben and Will talk about getting new gun owners off the fence and into the community. Their answers center on content: let mainstream outlets show the industry without a political spin, represent the new customer who often doesn't look like the standard gun owner, and for aspiring creators, be authentic, stay consistent, and don't wait for perfect before posting.

Questions this episode answers

Why did The Gundies finally go live this year, and why on Rumble instead of YouTube?

Ben had pushed for a live stream for years, and the show finally went live once they found the right home. YouTube was ruled out because the platform said a stream could be cut if a guest violated its guidelines, a risk too large for the investment, so Rumble stepped in, set up the account, and provided team support.

How big was the show this year in terms of attendees and stream viewers?

By Ben and Will's account it was the best year yet, with just under a thousand confirmed attendees in the room and around 200,000 people watching the stream. The crowd at the Venetian Theater during SHOT was also noticeably more senior, with more owners and C-suite leaders.

How many hours does Forge actually put into producing The Gundies?

Ben and Will say they put roughly 3,500 man hours into the event this year, on top of running the agency. The Gundies is separate from Forge Relations and is not a money-maker.

Why does a marketing agency keep running an event that doesn't make money?

Ben and Will keep going because they believe in the firearms industry and community and want to see it grow, since that growth benefits everyone. They have the same internal debate every year about whether the headache is worth it, and they keep choosing to do it.

How did Forge respond to this year's accusations that the voting was rigged?

Ben and Will addressed the drama directly, saying voting has always been organic and that more followers meaning more votes is a volume game, not rigging. They said their piece and chose not to feed the drama machine further.

What does a creator gain from being nominated even if they don't win?

Because voters have to look at every name in a category, a nominee who misses the top five still gets new eyes from people who had never seen them. The hosts note even Hickok, with 10 million subscribers, was genuinely excited to win, and John has watched subscriber counts climb after a Gundies post.

What is the new Gundies trivia night at GOALS, and what can attendees expect?

The Gundies is launching its first-ever trivia night, a Second Amendment themed game with real prizes from sponsors including title sponsor PSA. It runs at GOA's GOALS event in Des Moines, Iowa on August 1st and 2nd, with Forge providing Saturday night's entertainment.

What advice do Ben and Will give to new gun owners and aspiring content creators?

For new gun owners, they want mainstream content that shows the industry without a political spin and represents customers who don't fit the standard mold. For aspiring creators, the advice is to be authentic, stay consistent, and not wait for perfect before posting.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome back to Forge for the post-Gundies wrap-up
• 00:48 — Why this year went live, and why not YouTube
• 02:04 — Rumble steps in to make the live stream happen
• 03:09 — Best year yet: C-suite in the room, seven years of growth
• 04:53 — 3,500 man hours and the entertainment push
• 07:07 — The grand prize winner and what voting really buys you
• 09:05 — John and Kaylee's view from backstage
• 11:48 — Why GOA sponsors its category and never gave it up
• 13:31 — Addressing this year's drama and the rigging accusations
• 17:09 — Organic voting and why being nominated still wins
• 24:51 — Announcement: the Gundies becomes its own brand
• 25:25 — First-ever Gundies trivia night at GOA GOALS
• 35:54 — GOALS, the 50th anniversary, and registering early
• 40:47 — Soapbox: getting new gun owners into the community
• 45:21 — Advice for aspiring content creators: be authentic

About the guest

Ben and Will are with Forge Relations, the marketing agency that produces the Gundies firearms industry awards show. The hosts describe them as gun owners first, and they call themselves a marketing agency that also does events. In this episode they describe the Gundies as separate from Forge and built for the firearms industry and community, not as a revenue source. This was around their third appearance on State of the Second. The Gundies is heading into its eighth year, with the awards show held at the Venetian Theater during SHOT.

Key quotes

"The biggest compliment we got was about who was in the room." — Ben Stacy

"We believe in this industry and we believe in the community and we want to see the community grow because that's going to benefit all of us." — Ben Stacy

"At the end of the day, we created this event for our industry." — Will Renke

"It's not that it's rigged, it's just it's a volume game." — Will Renke

"The whole point of the event is to network together." — Will Renke

"The only way you're going to get better on camera is just to put the content out there." — Ben Stacy

She walks through what making the Overall Team actually takes: a two-year qualification across your best three of four national championships, with only the top four competitors selected. After one of the best matches of her life she slipped into the fourth spot, then went to the world championship and came home with two gold medals. Jalise shoots for Colt, where she has been on the team for seven years after a stint with Springfield Armory and a breakout single-stack season on two Colt Gold Cups. A history lover, she is proud to represent a brand so embedded in American history, and she now helps test Colt products before release. She also opens up her training: when she is home, three hours a day on the range, dry fire, a CO2 kit for simulated recoil, daily gym work, and a fundamentals block of about 100 rounds on one-inch dots at 5, 7, and 10 yards that she has run for a decade.

The back half turns to community and history. Jalise encourages women entering the sport to use social media to connect with other women shooters and to lean on resources like online classes and groups such as A Girl & A Gun and The Well Armed Woman, with Steel Challenge as a beginner-friendly first discipline. She shares her family's hunting tradition, including a South Africa hunt tied to last year's world championship and a bucket list that runs from moose to dove hunting in Argentina. Her love of history shows in her favorites, from the Single Action Army to black powder guns, and in a top-five list that includes the 1911, the 2011, and the AR-15. On the Soapbox, she gets candid about the mental side of competition, the habit of getting in her own head, and why staying willing to fail and learn is the only way to keep climbing.

Questions this episode answers

How did Jalise Williams get into competitive shooting?

She grew up hunting with her father in St. George, Utah from a very young age. After her mother got a concealed carry permit and took a local ladies' night clinic, she suggested Jalise learn handguns too, and Jalise and her sister fell in love with the sport and entered the competitive circuit twelve years ago.

What does qualifying for the USA Overall (Men's) Team actually mean?

Team USA selection runs off your best three of four national championships over two years, with only the top four competitors chosen. Jalise slipped into the fourth spot after one of the best matches of her life, then won two gold medals at the world championship, becoming the first US woman to make that team.

Why does Jalise Williams shoot for Colt?

She has been on the Colt team for seven years, after shooting Springfield Armory and then winning a national-title season with two Colt Gold Cups in single stack. A Shooting USA recommendation connected her to Colt, and she values the brand's place in American history. She now helps test Colt products before release.

How does a professional competitive shooter train?

When she is home, Jalise trains about three hours a day on the range, dry fires, and uses a CO2 kit for simulated recoil, plus daily gym work. She starts every session with fundamentals, roughly 100 rounds on one-inch dots at 5, 7, and 10 yards, a drill she has run for about ten years.

What is the first step to getting into competitive shooting?

She suggests watching videos, researching shooting organizations, and going to spectate a local match. Steel Challenge is her recommended starting discipline because it is beginner-friendly and builds fundamentals, and talking to local shooters can help you borrow gear and ease into your first match.

What advice does Jalise Williams have for women entering the firearms industry?

Use social media to connect with other women in competitive shooting, and lean on resources like online classes and women's organizations such as A Girl & A Gun and The Well Armed Woman. A little research helps you find the path and the discipline that fit you best.

How big a role does the mental game play in competitive shooting?

Jalise says the sport is largely mental, since anyone can have the skills but performing on demand under pressure is the hard part. She has struggled with getting in her own head and stresses staying willing to learn, grow, and fail, because that is how you reach the next level.

What does Jalise Williams consider the top guns that built America?

A history lover, she names the Single Action Army as a favorite, along with the 1911 she has shot for most of her career, the 2011 that built on it, and the AR-15. The hosts add classics like the M1 Garand and the Winchester 92.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and Jalise's record
• 00:33 — From hunting in diapers to the competitive circuit
• 01:41 — Qualifying for the USA Overall Team
• 03:10 — Shooting for Colt
• 04:49 — Getting started: Steel Challenge and fundamentals
• 09:27 — Inside a competitive shooter's training week
• 12:15 — Advice for women entering the sport
• 15:32 — Hunting as a family tradition
• 18:08 — Honoring firearms history
• 25:33 — Top guns that built America
• 31:16 — The Soapbox: the mental game of competition
• 36:21 — Where to find Jalise

About the guest

Jalise Williams is a professional competitive shooter and Team USA representative, a 12-time world champion with 43 national titles and more than 200 major wins, and the first US woman to qualify for the USA Overall Team (formerly the Men's Team) at the Handgun World Shoot. She grew up hunting in St. George, Utah and has competed for about 12 years, shooting for Colt for the last seven. She also runs an educational shooting series on YouTube.

Key quotes

"I slipped into that fourth spot and claimed it as mine" — Jalise Williams

"always being willing to learn and grow because there's somebody out there that knows something that you don't know" — Jalise Williams

"You have to be able to be willing to fail a lot and want to learn from those" — Jalise Williams

"I like to think of it as like the guns that built America" — Jalise Williams

Colton walks through what it took to go from an idea to a business. He failed roughly 30 times on prototypes before it worked, ran a lot of drop and mud tests, and engineered a self-lubricating, self-clearing bushing so the system never needs oil. Some test kits have 18,000 rounds through them with a three-pound trigger pull and have never been opened or cleaned. He stresses doing the patent search right, paying for a strong provisional patent, and the surprise that many engineers, lawyers, and even website companies will not touch the firearms industry at all. He launched at SHOT Show out of a small booth in the basement, sold out a 50-unit preorder in two weeks, and had competitors copy the concept within three months.

The conversation moves into marketing, education, and the influencer game. Colton bet on smaller YouTubers, sending about 30 of his first hundred units to creators starting out, because they were hungry, made multiple videos, and leaned into education more than entertainment. He chose a prove-it mentality over claiming the product is good himself. The demographic surprised him: older hunters and shooters using the lighter, one-handed-capable bullpup for accessibility after shoulder or hip replacements. The episode closes on the soapbox segment about running a gun company in Minnesota, the state-level pressure, and the value of staying level headed and supporting groups like Minnesota Gun Rights.

Questions this episode answers

What is a bullpup conversion kit and how does Reap Weaponry's version work with an existing AR?

Reap Weaponry's kit converts a standard AR into a bullpup, shortening the overall package while keeping the gun functioning as an AR15. It bolts onto a mil-spec AR lower and works with parts builders already own, supporting buffered and bufferless uppers across a wide caliber list.

Why does the kit work with any mil-spec AR lower without being a serialized firearm?

The kit is legally a grip that bolts onto a mil-spec AR lower, so it is not serialized. That lets it work with the lowers and parts builders already own rather than requiring a new firearm.

How did the shortened buffer system come about, and who did Reap partner with to build it?

Reap built a shortened buffer system into the kit so it could run compact uppers, developing it in partnership with Deadfoot Arms. The system also supports bolt receivers and both buffered and bufferless uppers.

How many prototypes did it take and what testing did the kit go through before launch?

Colton failed roughly 30 times on prototypes before the system worked, then ran extensive drop and mud testing. He engineered a self-lubricating, self-clearing bushing so the kit never needs oil, with some test units running 18,000 rounds without being opened or cleaned.

What does it take to go from an idea to a firearms business, including the patent process?

Colton stresses doing the patent search correctly and paying for a strong provisional patent. He also learned that many engineers, lawyers, and even website companies refuse to work with the firearms industry, which made building the business harder than expected.

Why did Reap send product to smaller YouTubers instead of the big influencers first?

Colton sent about 30 of his first hundred units to smaller, up-and-coming creators because they were hungry, made multiple videos, and leaned into education over entertainment. He chose a prove-it approach, putting the product in people's hands rather than claiming it was good himself.

Which customers ended up buying the product, and why was the demographic a surprise?

The buyers skewed toward older hunters and shooters who valued the lighter, one-handed-capable bullpup for accessibility after shoulder or hip replacements. That accessibility-driven demographic was not the audience Colton expected.

What is it like running a firearms manufacturing company in Minnesota?

Colton manufactures in Minnesota and Wisconsin and faces real state-level pressure on the industry. He emphasizes staying level headed and supporting advocacy groups like Minnesota Gun Rights.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Colton and the origin of Reap Weaponry
• 01:33 — Why bullpups are so controversial
• 02:35 — Modularity and the rise of micro bullpups
• 04:30 — What the kit fits: mil-spec lowers, uppers, calibers
• 06:13 — AR10 frame coming and what's next
• 07:33 — Older hunters and accessibility wins
• 09:35 — Test protocols, prototypes, and the bushing design
• 11:54 — The shortened buffer system with Deadfoot Arms
• 14:22 — Launch reaction and selling out the preorder
• 16:43 — Price point versus quality
• 19:28 — Education, gun tubers, and backing small creators
• 26:24 — Patent search, engineers, and a firearms-shy world
• 33:35 — Learning marketing and the prove-it mentality
• 39:01 — Soapbox: running a gun company in Minnesota

About the guest

Colton is the founder and CEO of Reap Weaponry, a firearms company based in central Minnesota. A fifth-generation farmer, he grew up farming and painting cars and started the company around age 22 or 23 with no background in business or marketing. The idea grew out of coyote hunting in the Midwest, where he wanted a shorter package than the 18-inch guns and suppressors he was lugging around. He pursued a patent and developed Reap's bullpup conversion system, which the company manufactures in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Reap also does local sales of suppressors, thermals, and FFL work as a dealer in central Minnesota.

Key quotes

"I figured somebody had to do it. So I got looking at it for a couple weeks and nobody was doing a conversion system for it." — Colton

"We've got some of the test kits, have 18,000 rounds through now that still running. I've never opened them up, never cleaned them." — Colton

"Instead of claiming we have a good product, I want to prove it and I want to get it into people's hands and let them show it for what it is too." — Colton

"It's still an AR15 through and through. We're not altering or really negating anything that it does already." — Colton

"It was important to me from the jump to give some of the smaller influencers the product first." — Colton

The conversation centers on what makes the product different. The patent is in how the bag deploys on the body. A loose Kevlar insert held up to yourself carries a high risk of the bullet ricocheting, so the insert is measured to fit a specific bag and deploys with a neck strap and waist strap that absorb the blow. Level 3A protection covers standard handgun rounds up to .44 Magnum and is also stab proof. After launch, the team realized the real audience was people who want to carry and protect themselves at the same time. They went to SHOT Show two years in a row to confirm it, partnered with Rounded for a universal holster insert that fits inside a zipper pouch, and shifted their marketing toward the firearms community.

Jennifer and the hosts dig into who buys the bags and why. The biggest demographic is men buying for the women in their life, plus parents sending kids off to college where campus carry and even pepper spray may not be allowed. The team is exploring more options for men, travel, and undercover law enforcement, and gets frequent requests for children's backpacks they have not yet pursued. Kaylee and John tie it all back to personal responsibility, the on-ramp into the self defense journey, and the rise of off body carry, agreeing on one rule throughout: options are good as long as you practice with them.

Questions this episode answers

What is Level 3A ballistic protection and what rounds does it stop?

Level 3A protection covers standard handgun rounds up to .44 Magnum, and it is also rated stab proof. Urban Chic builds this rating into its bags using DuPont Kevlar and patented technology.

What makes Urban Chic's bag different from a plain Kevlar insert you hold up to yourself?

A loose Kevlar insert held up to yourself carries a high risk of the bullet ricocheting. Urban Chic's patent is in how the insert is measured to fit a specific bag and deploys with a neck strap and waist strap that absorb the blow.

How much weight does the ballistic insert add to the bag?

The protective insert adds only 17 ounces to the bag, so it stays discreet and reads like an everyday purse rather than feeling like a bulletproof vest.

Can you carry a firearm in the bag, and how does the holster option work?

Yes. Urban Chic partnered with Rounded for a universal holster insert that fits inside a zipper pouch, so the bag supports both ballistic protection and concealed carry at the same time.

Who is actually buying these ballistic bags and why?

The biggest demographic is men buying for the women in their life, along with parents sending kids off to college where campus carry and even pepper spray may not be allowed.

Why did Urban Chic shift its marketing toward the firearms community after launch?

After launch the team realized the real audience was people who want to carry and protect themselves at the same time. They confirmed it at SHOT Show two years running, then partnered with Rounded and moved their marketing toward the firearms community.

Do the ballistic panels expire, and is there a warranty?

The summary does not specify a panel shelf life, but the episode covers the panels and a 10-year warranty in its discussion of how the insert is built and maintained.

How was Urban Chic founded and what was the original idea?

The company was founded in 2018 by an attorney who started it as a passion project after seeing mass shootings, aiming to put real personal protection into a genuine leather bag that looks like an everyday purse.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and intro to Urban Chic
• 00:53 — Founded in 2018: protection in an everyday bag
• 01:51 — The patent: how the bag deploys on the body
• 03:35 — Adding the universal holster with Rounded
• 04:48 — Barriers and misconceptions buyers have
• 06:08 — Who it's for: college, teachers, everyone
• 07:09 — Level 3A rating and stopping power
• 08:11 — Dual-purpose bags and women in the space
• 13:43 — How the insert is built and removed
• 14:41 — Panel shelf life and the 10-year warranty
• 14:57 — Customer stories and range demos
• 19:01 — Demand for children's backpacks
• 21:11 — How the founder built and patented the bag
• 25:11 — From the Soapbox: off body carry and practice
• 30:47 — Undercover law enforcement use
• 31:24 — Deployment time and closing

About the guest

Jennifer is the director of sales and marketing at Urban Chic, a brand that makes stylish everyday carry accessories with integrated Level 3A ballistic protection. She came from a legal industry background rather than firearms, and says her husband is in the gun space as a personal hobby, so she was familiar with it before joining professionally. The company was founded in 2018 by an attorney who started it as a passion project after seeing mass shootings. [VERIFY guest's last name]

Key quotes

"it's the bag you hope you never have to use because it's there if you need it." — Jennifer

"if you just had a Kevlar insert and you just held it up to yourself, the risk of the bullet ricocheting is very high." — Jennifer

"after we launched the product, we realized it's actually for people who are wanting to carry and protect themselves at the same time." — Jennifer

"the stronger the self defense culture is, the stronger the second Amendment community is." — Kaylee

"off body carry is not bad. It's an option. It adds to your repertoire." — John

"our biggest demographic is men buying it for women in their life." — Jennifer

Johnny explains who he actually makes content for: the roughly 30-year-old with a family who does not know much about guns but wants to protect the people he loves. He came to believe everybody should own a gun to protect themselves and their family, and his time as a cop is what drove it home. His audience skews 28 to 35, older and more capable than people assume, and he watches them progress from how do you hold a gun to questions about holding zero and competition shooting. He talks candidly about the haters, the SWAT and Navy SEAL viewers who called his department to complain, and the constant accusation of being a shill, which he argues is a double standard unique to the gun industry. He runs the channel like a business, takes no affiliate cuts on his discount codes, and says he calls out a product on camera when something is wrong.

The back half digs into harder ground. Johnny breaks down Minnesota self-defense and carry law, including his own traffic stop where he learned the hard way that the state requires you to inform an officer you are carrying. He covers YouTube tightening restrictions, why he stays on the platform anyway for the reach, and why he doubts it will ever return to its open early days. He closes on the call from the Gundies to stop the infighting, with a direct message to the creators and commenters pouring out hate: reflect, fix yourself, and stop adding fuel to the fire of people who already say guns kill people.

Questions this episode answers

How did Johnny Q go from wedding videography and viral spin-art paintings to firearms content?

Johnny Q started in wedding photography, videography, and marketing, then went viral during COVID posting spin-art paintings on TikTok. He carried that audience through every shift in his content until he moved to making firearms content full time.

Why did he become a police officer, and how did that shape his gun content?

Johnny became a police officer and documented his time on the job, and that experience convinced him everybody should own a gun to protect themselves and their family. It became the core why behind his firearms content.

Who is the audience he actually makes content for, and how old are they really?

He makes content for the roughly 30-year-old with a family who does not know much about guns but wants to protect the people he loves. His viewers skew 28 to 35, older and more capable than people assume, and he watches them progress from how to hold a gun to questions about holding zero and competition shooting.

What is the story behind his signature "good question" reply?

The "good question" reply started on TikTok as a way to handle the flood of questions he could not all answer. It became the welcoming tone that set his channel apart in a space he describes as in-your-face and full of people insisting there is only one way to do things.

How does he handle hate comments and the shill accusation in the gun industry?

Johnny runs the channel like a business, takes no affiliate cuts on his discount codes, and calls out a product on camera when something is wrong. He argues the constant shill accusation is a double standard unique to the gun industry.

What does Minnesota law require when you are carrying and get pulled over?

Johnny learned the hard way during his own traffic stop that Minnesota requires you to inform the officer you are carrying. He uses that experience to break down the state's self-defense and carry law.

Does he think YouTube will ever loosen its restrictions on gun content?

He doubts YouTube will return to its open early days, but he stays on the platform for the reach despite the tightening restrictions.

What is Johnny Q's message from The Gundies about the infighting in the gun community?

Answering the call from The Gundies to stop the infighting, Johnny tells the creators and commenters pouring out hate to reflect, fix themselves, and stop adding fuel to the fire for people who already say guns kill people.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Johnny Q
• 00:36 — From vlogging to viral spin art
• 01:41 — Becoming a cop, filming the journey
• 04:50 — The good question approach
• 07:18 — The on-ramp for new gun owners
• 10:05 — Old heads and Olight gate
• 13:32 — His why: protecting family
• 17:33 — Misconceptions and budget gear
• 22:48 — Going long form and EOTECH on board
• 25:02 — The shill debate and discount codes
• 30:24 — His specialty: beginner to intermediate
• 35:57 — Minnesota law and the traffic stop
• 40:04 — YouTube restrictions and reach
• 42:46 — Banding together against the hate
• 46:32 — Where to find Johnny Q

About the guest

Johnny Q is a firearms content creator who has been on YouTube for about seven years. He started with life vlogging and worked as a wedding photographer and videographer and in marketing. During COVID he began posting spin-art paintings that went viral on TikTok, and he reached a million YouTube subscribers in his first year. He later became a police officer, motivated by a desire to help women in domestic violence situations, and documented his journey through the academy and field training, gaining a second million subscribers. After roughly three years in law enforcement he left to make firearms content full time. He lives in Minnesota and has kids. His content focuses on welcoming new and beginner-to-intermediate gun owners. He can be found as Johnny Q on YouTube and Instagram.

Key quotes

"I've always wanted to be the person that helps people come into the gun space." — Johnny Q

"I want to be making content for people who are, you know, the Joe that's, you know, 30 years old, has a family, doesn't know anything about guns, but wants to protect himself and his family." — Johnny Q

"People think they're very young and don't know anything, but they're a lot older and want to know, but don't know how to ask those things." — Johnny Q

"I think there's a, maybe a double standard in the gun industry." — Johnny Q

"I tell people I don't do affiliates, like I don't get paid on usage of codes." — Johnny Q

"If you can confine within those guidelines, you could do really well." — Johnny Q

The design goal was specific. She wanted a purse that looked feminine, fit her outfit, stayed discreet, and could still meet the technical bar the instructors used to dismiss off-body carry: sub 1.5-second shots on target. The Cakes system grew from there, including a waist chain she first added because it was cute and then found gave the bag three points of stability for a one-handed draw while moving. The conversation also covers how feminine carry has become its own category, with Project Gunway and other brands now entering the space. Her position on competition is plain. Cakes has one goal, arm every woman, so if a customer carries with someone else's bag, that still counts.

The back half is about California and the new gun owner. She walks through what it took to buy a gun and earn a permit in her county: the FSC firearm safety test her husband failed, a 30-day wait, proof of citizenship and matching utility bills, three references the sheriff calls to vouch for you, an in-person psychological exam at the sheriff's office, multiple fingerprint sessions, and a roughly $1,000 out-the-door cost. That experience moved her and her husband from liberal to libertarian. She argues the barriers slow down the law-abiding while criminals skip all of it, and she pushes the gun community to welcome new owners instead of overwhelming them with trigger-weight talk and politics. Cakes is on Instagram at cakes.concealed and is building a YouTube channel for carry education.

Questions this episode answers

Why did off-body carry, often dismissed in CCW classes, become the right answer for one new gun owner?

After getting her CCW license in California, the Cakes Concealed Carry founder found the holsters and stiff belt her instructors recommended did not fit her body or lifestyle. Off-body carry was the only setup that made her willing to carry every single day.

How did Cakes Concealed Carry go from a single prototype bag to roughly 6,000 bags sold in its first year?

Her husband designed one concealed carry bag for her as a gift, at the cost of a prototype, after she found tactical bags too obvious and rigging her own purses unsafe. That single bag became a brand that sold about 6,000 bags in its first year and won Emerging Brand of the Year at The Gundies.

What technical standard did the founder design the bag to meet, and why did it matter?

She built the bag to hit sub 1.5-second shots on target, the same technical bar instructors used to dismiss off-body carry. Meeting it let her prove a bag could look feminine and stay discreet while still drawing fast.

What does it actually take, step by step, to buy a gun and get a CCW permit in California?

In her county it meant the FSC firearm safety test, a 30-day wait, proof of citizenship with matching utility bills, three references the sheriff calls, an in-person psychological exam, multiple fingerprint sessions, and roughly $1,000 out the door.

How did the founder's politics shift from liberal to libertarian after buying her first gun?

Going through California's permit and purchase process, and seeing how it burdened law-abiding buyers, moved her and her husband from liberal to libertarian. Becoming gun owners reframed how she saw the barriers around the right to carry.

Why does the founder argue that gun legislation protects criminals rather than law-abiding citizens?

She argues the legal barriers only slow down people who follow the law, since criminals bypass the permits, waits, and checks entirely. The result is that legislation adds cost and delay for the law-abiding without stopping the people it targets.

How should the gun community treat new gun owners walking into a store for the first time?

She pushes the community to welcome new owners instead of overwhelming them with trigger-weight talk and politics. Her view is that every gun store should invite and welcome first-time buyers rather than intimidate them.

What is the Cakes waist chain, and how did a cute accessory turn into a tactical feature?

She first added the waist chain because it looked cute, then found it gave the bag three points of stability for a one-handed draw while moving. A styling choice became a functional part of the carry system.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Cakes Concealed Carry
• 00:39 — How a personal CCW journey started the brand
• 01:48 — Carrying every day becomes a lifestyle
• 04:04 — One prototype bag turns into 6,000 sold
• 04:27 — The California concealed carry class
• 06:40 — Industry reception and the 1.5-second standard
• 10:05 — The waist chain that became a tactical feature
• 11:37 — Her firearms journey and personal responsibility
• 16:14 — From liberal to libertarian after the first gun
• 20:34 — Why a permit is required to carry in California
• 25:55 — The barrier to entry and a friend named Marissa
• 33:09 — Taxing a God-given right and fighting legislation
• 40:03 — From the soapbox: welcoming the new gun owner
• 48:55 — Winning Emerging Brand of the Year at the Gundies
• 52:13 — Where to find Cakes and closing

About the guest

Founder and owner of Cakes Concealed Carry, a women-owned brand making concealed carry bags for off-body carry. She is based in California and lives in Riverside County. She comes from an immigrant family that immigrated from Bangladesh, and she is an abuse survivor who decided to be responsible for her own safety. She and her husband took basic pistol and safety training before buying their first gun, and moved from liberal to libertarian after becoming gun owners. The brand started after her husband designed her a single bag as a gift. Cakes sold about 6,000 bags in its first year and won Emerging Brand of the Year at the Gundies. The host introduces her as Tamkin Collins. [VERIFY name spelling: the auto-transcript also renders it "Tapkin"/"Tamkin."]

Key quotes

"It really started with when I chose to get my CCW license." — Tamkin Collins

"when you start wearing that stuff, once you get your ccw, you realize that this is a lifestyle." — Tamkin Collins

"And now we have sold probably 6,000 bags in our first year." — Tamkin Collins

"I think that the industry has been waiting for something like this" — Tamkin Collins

"And then we bought our first gun, and we just got fully radicalized into libertarianism." — Tamkin Collins

"So the people that are law abiding are going to abide by the law." — Tamkin Collins

"Every gun store needs to invite and welcome new gun owners." — Tamkin Collins

"cakes only has one goal, which is arm every woman." — Tamkin Collins

The heart of the conversation is competency and personal responsibility. Smith argues that owning a gun does not make a person competent, and that practice and mindset matter more than the specific handgun in your holster. He reframes the military's shoot, move, and communicate as communicate first, then move to cover, then shoot only if you have to, because every bullet fired has a lawyer attached to it and a jury that decides whether you acted responsibly. He covers backing up to create distance, the legal value of a defensive posture on camera, where to aim, and why a fight is fought to win rather than to a draw. He also recommends a short-barreled rifle with a suppressor and a white light for home defense, and corrects the common belief that rifle rounds pass through more interior walls than pistol rounds.

Smith gets personal on the mental side: rehearsing scenarios, training to shoot with either hand, staying vigilant even when a larger partner is present, and the reality that carrying a gun is comforting rather than comfortable. He closes on safety, calling most negligent discharges incompetence rather than accidents, and on history, naming his top firearms and arguing that public education should be grounded more in history. The episode includes sponsor reads for Ammo Squared, Right to Bear, and Patriot Mobile, and ends with a reminder to register for GOALS, GOA's 50th anniversary convention, August 1st and 2nd in Des Moines, Iowa.

Questions this episode answers

What did Clint Smith change his mind about in training over 50 years?

Smith says his thinking shifted from the near-zero pistol instruction he got in the Marine Corps and his early experience with PPC, the Practical Pistol Course, toward the view that most gunfights happen close in, at the width or length of a car rather than at 50 yards.

Why does Clint Smith call a pistol a tool of convenience and the rifle the tool that ends a fight?

He treats the handgun as something you carry because it is easy to have on you, not because it is the most effective option. To actually end a fight, Smith says you use a rifle, which is why the long gun returned to law enforcement after the April 1986 Miami FBI shooting.

What does Smith recommend for home defense, and why a short-barreled rifle with a suppressor?

Smith recommends a short-barreled rifle paired with a suppressor and a white light for defending the home, favoring the rifle's effectiveness over a handgun in a close-quarters confrontation.

Do rifle rounds go through more walls in a house than pistol rounds?

Smith corrects the common belief that rifle rounds pass through more interior walls than pistol rounds, pushing back on the assumption that a rifle is automatically the bigger over-penetration risk indoors.

Why does Smith say possession of a firearm does not equal competency?

Smith argues that owning a gun does not make a person competent. Practice and mindset matter more than the specific handgun you carry, and real competency takes deliberate work and money.

How should a gun owner build the mindset to actually use a firearm defensively?

He reframes the military's shoot, move, and communicate as communicate first, then move to cover, then shoot only if you have to, because every bullet fired carries legal consequences and a jury that decides whether you acted responsibly.

How should you train the mental side of self-defense, not just the shooting?

Smith stresses rehearsing scenarios, training to shoot with either hand, and staying vigilant even when a larger partner is present, treating a carried gun as something comforting rather than comfortable.

What are Clint Smith's top historical firearms?

Smith closes the episode by naming his top firearms and arguing that public education should be grounded more in history, though the specific models are covered in the discussion itself rather than summarized here.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Clint Smith, founder of Thunder Ranch
• 00:21 — What he changed his mind on about training
• 01:54 — Why train inside seven yards
• 02:38 — Communicate, move, shoot only if you have to
• 04:18 — The long gun, the pistol, and the 1986 Miami FBI shooting
• 05:43 — Pistols are convenience, rifles end fights
• 09:51 — Best firearm for home defense
• 13:00 — Possession is not competency
• 17:25 — Verbalize, create distance, fight to win
• 21:42 — Flipping the switch to defend yourself
• 27:34 — Training the mental side and rehearsing scenarios
• 34:11 — Carrying when you are small, and around kids
• 39:08 — From the soapbox: be safe with firearms
• 43:00 — Top historical firearms and learning history

About the guest

Clint Smith is the founder of Thunder Ranch. He is a U.S. Marine Corps combat veteran who joined in 1967, served from 1967 to 1970, and did two infantry tours in Vietnam. He is also a law enforcement veteran whose career included time on a sheriff's department. He started his Urban Rifle class in 1983, ran a school in Texas for five-day classes for 11 years, and later taught three-day classes in Oregon for two or three years. He is married to Heidi and, at the time of recording, was 76 years old and living in Wyoming. He appeared in a 2001 60 Minutes segment and previously wrote a column for American Handgunner.

Key quotes

"Pistols are tools of convenience. Pistols are not tools of effectiveness. If you want to end a fight, you shoot the son of a gun with a rifle." — Clint Smith

"Handguns put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people." — Clint Smith

"possession of a firearm does not equate to competency." — Clint Smith

"If you want competency, it costs money." — Clint Smith

"they weren't supposed to be comfortable, they're supposed to be comforting." — Clint Smith

"You can do everything in life. New husband, new wife, new car, new washer, new dryer. Okay, everything. But you can never pull a bullet back." — Clint Smith

"Know all your students. Trust none of them." — Clint Smith

A big stretch of the episode is about firearms as art. Stellar has stepped outside traditional marketing, including building the Maximus rifle in a collaboration with Andre Alofsky and delivering one to Dana White. Scott talks about the company's diamond-engraved Executive model, cut on a CNC machine with the upper, lower, and handguard attached so the lines transfer perfectly, and about working with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault. He plans to release certain parts in a raw form this year so customers can Cerakote, paint, and customize their own builds. The conversation ties this to a cultural shift: more recognizable names are comfortable being public about firearms, and the group sees custom and limited-run guns as a lower barrier to entry that brings new people into the Second Amendment community.

The back half moves into legacy and the why behind gun ownership. Scott frames Stellar's mission around building rifles you can pass down, the same way his great-grandfather's and grandfather's guns were passed to him. Kaylee connects that to defending the Second Amendment across generations, arguing the right has to be nurtured through experiences like range days, classes, and building an AR together, not just inherited by owning a safe full of guns. The Soapbox segment digs into attacks on firearm safety and hunter education in schools, the loss of community after COVID, the value of the trades, and how social media has pulled people away from real connection. Scott also makes the case that an armed citizenry has been a deterrent to foreign attack on the American mainland. The episode closes with Stellar's contact info, a thank-you to Palmetto State Armory for sponsoring guest gifts, and a push for GOALS, GOA's 50th anniversary event in Des Moines, Iowa, August 1st and 2nd.

Questions this episode answers

What is Stellar Arms, and how does its aerospace background shape how it builds rifles?

Stellar Arms is a smaller precision rifle manufacturer in Lincoln, Nebraska, with aerospace roots through its founder, Ty, and a sister operation that makes parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That background drives tight tolerances, in-house manufacturing, and scrapping anything that misses spec.

Why was the company originally called MASP, and what does its sister company make?

Stellar Arms was formerly known as MASP Enterprises, and its sister operation under that name still produces aerospace parts for companies like SpaceX and NASA. That aerospace manufacturing background is what carried over into how Stellar builds its rifles.

What rifle did Stellar Arms build for Dana White, and who did they collaborate with on it?

Stellar Arms built the Maximus rifle in a collaboration with Andre Alofsky and delivered one to Dana White. It was part of the company stepping outside traditional marketing and treating firearms as art.

What makes Stellar's diamond-engraved Executive model different from a laser-engraved gun?

The Executive model is diamond-engraved and cut on a CNC machine with the upper, lower, and handguard attached, so the engraved lines transfer perfectly across all three parts. Stellar worked with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault on this kind of work.

Why does every Stellar rifle come with a lifetime warranty and a signed card from the armorer?

Scott Melton argues a loose-tolerance AR will still function but won't hold accuracy, so Stellar ships every rifle with a lifetime warranty and a card signed by the armorer who checked, assembled, and test-fired it. It's how the company stands behind its precision standard.

Should the firearms industry lean into fun, custom designs instead of only tactical black rifles?

Scott Melton makes the case that custom and limited-run guns lower the barrier to entry and bring new people into the Second Amendment community. Stellar plans to release certain parts in raw form so customers can Cerakote, paint, and customize their own builds.

How do the hosts and guest think about firearms as art versus firearms as a tool?

Scott Melton frames a rifle as something that should still function as a high-performing tool while also being allowed to look good, like customizing a car. The episode ties this to a cultural shift where more recognizable names are comfortable being public about firearms.

Why do Scott and Kaylee say legacy and passing rifles down matter for defending the Second Amendment?

Scott Melton frames Stellar's mission around building rifles you can pass down, the way his great-grandfather's and grandfather's guns came to him. Kaylee argues the Second Amendment has to be nurtured through range days, classes, and building an AR together, not just inherited by owning a safe full of guns.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Season three welcome and meeting Scott Melton
• 00:41 — Stellar Arms, the MASP name, and aerospace roots
• 02:11 — What makes their AR stand out: precision and tolerances
• 03:47 — Coatings, custom designs, and pushing the AR forward
• 05:33 — The Dana White Maximus rifle and the Alofsky collab
• 07:37 — Celebrities going public and growing the community
• 09:00 — Should the industry embrace more fun designs
• 10:53 — Guns as art versus guns as a tool
• 17:52 — The CNC-cut Executive and the armorer's signature
• 20:15 — Legacy and the Second Amendment as a deterrent
• 23:54 — Gun safety, history, and education in schools
• 27:12 — Building an AR, AR builder classes, and lost skills
• 31:10 — Soapbox: legacy, the next generation, and community
• 39:20 — Trades, social media, and parting words
• 46:28 — Wrap-up, Stellar Arms contact, and GOALS event

About the guest

Scott Melton is a co-owner of Stellar Arms, a precision rifle manufacturer based in Lincoln, Nebraska, formerly known as MASP Enterprises. He says he has 14 years in the firearms industry and a history in product development. He lives in the Arizona desert, near Phoenix, and has four kids. He works closely with Andre Alofsky and with engraver T Tariq of T's Gun Vault, and Stellar built the Maximus rifle that was delivered to Dana White.

Key quotes

"we really pride ourselves on keeping everything, you know, to a very high standard." — Scott Melton

"will a rifle function with loose tolerances? Yes. But will it maintain accuracy? No." — Scott Melton

"we build it to last and function, but want to make it your own, just like a car or anything else." — Scott Melton

"You have to have those foundations and then build upon them." — Kaylee

"It can still be used as a tool and it should function as a, you know, high performing tool. But that doesn't mean it can't look good too" — Scott Melton

"We have to have legacy in mind." — Kaylee

"the smartest people are the greatest listeners." — Scott Melton

A theme runs through the whole conversation: people buy from people, not from companies. Ben pushes brands to be their own best content creator, find creators inside their community, tell the backstory, and show behind the curtain. He uses Palmetto State Armory as the example, both when products sell out and when a project gets canceled and Cameron gets on camera to explain why, the kind of transparency that earns trust. He and Kaylee argue that loyalty follows when values align, and that in the firearms space, where the product ties to a constitutional right, brands should draw a line in the sand rather than stay in the middle. John presses on the value proposition: new buyers care less about metal coatings and round counts and more about whether a product works, fits a budget, and can protect their family. The group also breaks down a real shift, that new owners want one multifaceted tool rather than a separate gun for each job.

The closing Soapbox segment is the bluntest stretch. Ben's spicy take: get over yourself, go where the people are, work within the platforms' limits, and stop complaining that you cannot run ads. John shares hard experience building a TikTok page to 120,000, getting deplatformed, and rebuilding it twice, with a clip that hit a million views and produced sales. Both land on the same place: marketing is experimenting and being comfortable with failure, building a community over time, and staying consistent instead of giving up on a platform after a slow start. Ben's parting line ties it together: the more you try to sell your product, the less of it you will sell. Be genuine, stand for something, and connect with people. Forge Relations has been in the gun and defense space since 2013, online at forgerelations.com.

Questions this episode answers

Who are the new gun owners brands should be trying to reach in 2026?

Ben Stacy points to the customers beyond the dedicated everyday gun owner, like the young mother worried about her safety and the recent college grad into overlanding or sports. The dedicated crowd is already reached, so growth comes from getting these next groups interested.

Why should firearms companies be on TikTok and YouTube even when those platforms are hostile to the industry?

Stacy's core rule is to go where the customer already is, and new owners actually use TikTok and YouTube. Brands should work within the platforms' limits rather than avoid them just because the platforms are unfriendly to firearms.

How can a firearms brand market itself when it can't run paid ads on the major platforms?

Instead of complaining about the ad ban, brands should build community through organic content, become their own best content creator, and stay consistent on the platforms new buyers use. Marketing here is experimenting, getting comfortable with failure, and building an audience over time.

Why do new buyers care more about the value proposition than specs like metal coatings and round counts?

New owners care whether a product works, fits their budget, and can protect their family, not the technical details that excite enthusiasts. The value proposition speaks to that buyer; spec talk does not.

How does a company turn from a manufacturer into a lifestyle brand customers stay loyal to?

Loyalty follows when values align, so brands should tell their backstory, show behind the curtain, and find creators inside their community. People buy from people, not from companies, and standing for something earns trust over time.

What does Palmetto State Armory do that earns consumer trust?

Palmetto State Armory shows transparency in both good and bad moments, including when a project gets canceled and Cameron gets on camera to explain why. That honesty, not just hype when products sell out, is what builds trust.

What should a company do when it gets deplatformed after building an audience?

Rebuild and stay consistent. Host John Fahrner grew a TikTok page to 120,000, got deplatformed, and rebuilt it twice, eventually landing a clip that hit a million views and drove sales.

Why does trying harder to sell your product end up selling less of it?

Stacy's point is that the more you push the sale, the less people buy, because audiences respond to genuine connection over a hard pitch. Be genuine, stand for something, and connect with people, and the sales follow.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome back, Ben Stacy of Forge Relations
• 00:29 — 2026 outlook: the slowdown and reaching the next group
• 02:15 — Going where the customer is, not where they're dying off
• 03:34 — The young mother and the mindset shift on TikTok
• 06:05 — Personal responsibility meets practical application
• 08:31 — Firearms as one tool: educate, don't just sell
• 11:20 — Be your own best content creator; people buy from people
• 13:51 — Loyalty when values align; drawing a line in the sand
• 18:37 — Value proposition over buzzwords for new buyers
• 20:40 — Kaylee's first gun and the why behind buying
• 26:08 — New owners want one multifaceted gun
• 32:29 — Spend a week behind the gun counter
• 34:55 — Accessibility and events like GOALS and Women's Range Day
• 39:19 — Soapbox: get over yourself and go where the people are
• 41:22 — Deplatforming, experimenting, and staying consistent
• 47:27 — Sell less by selling harder; where to find Forge

About the guest

Ben Stacy is from Forge Relations, a digital marketing firm in the gun industry and defense space that has been doing this work since 2013. The company can be found online at forgerelations.com and on the same handle across socials. He is a returning guest on the State of the Second podcast and describes himself as a parent of a toddler.

Key quotes

"you have to go where the customer is." — Ben Stacy

"you're not buying from a company, you're buying from a person." — Ben Stacy

"the more you try to sell your product, the lesser your product you will sell." — Ben Stacy

"I think a lot of it boils down to personal responsibility meeting practical application." — Kaylee

"The people who are the loudest on the Internet are the people who want the new fast, tactical, cool, fast thing." — John Fahrner

Adelina's core argument is about meeting women where they already are. She builds her classes as events, not lectures, with branded pink gear, gift bags, raffles, and a group photo, so first-timers show up excited instead of intimidated. On gear, her first recommendation is always a good holster in hard plastic or Kydex with a clip that won't pull out when you draw, like an Ulti clip or DCC clip. On training, she focuses on conceptual understanding, real-life scenarios through her monthly gun club, and dry-firing from the actual position and outfit you carry in. She is direct about the parts of the industry that hold women back: gun-store staff who steer women to a gun because it's pink or small instead of what performs, product launches that only picture tactical models, and instructors who tear new shooters down or ban long nails from class.

The hosts and Adelina dig into mindset and instruction, including why spouses often make poor teachers, how a single negative comment can take many positive ones to undo, and when an instructor should stop correcting and just let a student shoot. The conversation closes on the soapbox segment, where Adelina names what the industry still misses: relatability. She argues that if every model in the marketing is jacked, tactical, or a dark femme fatale, the average woman concludes the gun world isn't for her. Her fix is to show real people in real clothing doing real things, then train women to perform in what they actually wear, cute dress and heels included.

Questions this episode answers

What is the first accessory a new concealed carrier should invest in, and why?

Adelina Mae's first recommendation is always a good holster in hard plastic or Kydex, paired with a clip that won't pull out when you draw, like an Ulti clip or DCC clip. A holster that stays put on the draw is the foundation everything else builds on.

How does Girls Just Want to Have Guns make a firearms class feel like an event instead of an intimidating lecture?

She builds her classes as events rather than lectures, with branded pink gear, gift bags, raffles, and a group photo. The goal is for first-timers to show up excited instead of intimidated.

Why does Adelina say so many women own a gun but don't actually know how to use it?

Working at a manufacturer during Covid showed her how many people buy a gun and simply assume they can use it. A conversation with her own mom, who couldn't unload the bedside gun without being shown, convinced her most women in America had never actually been taught.

What mindset issues do women bring into a first class, and how does she work through them?

Many women arrive anxious and easily shaken, and Adelina Mae notes that a single negative comment can take many positive ones to undo. She works through it by knowing when to stop correcting and simply let a student shoot.

Why are spouses often the wrong people to teach their partner to shoot?

Adelina Mae and the hosts discuss why spouses often make poor instructors, tying it to how easily a single negative comment can set a new shooter back. A neutral instructor avoids the personal dynamic that makes correction land harder between partners.

How are women treated and sold guns at gun stores, and what should they do before buying?

She is direct that gun-store staff often steer women toward a gun because it's pink or small instead of what actually performs. Her counter is to focus on performance over appearance and to get real instruction rather than trusting a store's snap recommendation.

What is the industry still missing when it comes to reaching women in 2026?

Adelina Mae's answer is relatability. When every model in the marketing is jacked, tactical, or a dark femme fatale, the average woman concludes the gun world isn't for her, so she argues for showing real people in real clothing doing real things.

What everyday drills and practice does Adelina recommend for carriers?

She focuses on conceptual understanding, real-life scenarios through her monthly gun club, and dry-firing from the actual position and outfit you carry in. The principle is to train the way you'll actually perform, cute dress and heels included.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions
• 02:01 — First accessory to upgrade: get a good holster
• 03:10 — Top drills for everyday practice
• 05:13 — Who Adelina is and how she got into firearms
• 08:13 — Building a class into a fun, branded event
• 11:37 — Concealing in real outfits and the creator approach
• 14:01 — How companies are building for women
• 15:56 — Mindset issues women bring into class
• 20:15 — Why spouses make poor instructors
• 21:25 — Corrections, encouragement, and the seven-to-one rule
• 27:08 — How women are sold guns at the gun store
• 30:37 — Soapbox: what the industry is missing on relatability
• 38:45 — Where to find Adelina and the GOALS summit

About the guest

Adelina May is a female-only firearms instructor and the owner of Girls Just Want to Have Guns, a company with women instructors and women attendees that teaches women across the country how to go from scared and anxious with a firearm to confident, effective, and carrying every day. She grew up with guns in the home and started shooting around age five. She began training near age 12 alongside her dad's church security team, moved into competitive shooting, and has been a grandmaster for the last six years. She worked at a firearms manufacturer during Covid and has worked at gun stores. She also runs a monthly gun club and shares concealed-carry and educational content on social media.

Key quotes

"the first thing I tell people is that regardless of what you do, you have to have a holster." — Adelina May

"we teach women across the country how to go from scared and anxious with a firearm to confident, effective, and even carrying every day." — Adelina May

"they think they can automatically use them and they have no idea what they're doing." — Adelina May

"when somebody says something negative to you, it takes seven positive things to outweigh that one negative thing." — Adelina May

"we want to train, like, how you're going to perform." — Adelina May

"I think companies really need to start looking at their marketing and going, hey, we need to market to the average gun owner or the person who is just getting into this." — John

Most of the episode digs into how a storage-first ammo company actually operates. Dan walks through the caliber-of-the-month approach, the lesson learned from once offering more than 500 calibers and getting stuck on ones they could not restock, and why widespread adoption has to exist before a caliber makes business sense. They talk through how shortages work on their side, where an auto buy keeps running and customers wait in line for allocation, and why major NATO calibers get prioritized by manufacturers during a crunch. Kaylee adds the consumer view, including how the platform simplifies choices for first-time gun owners by labeling rounds by purpose instead of brand, and the dopamine hit of watching an account grow in the background. The hosts and guests also riff on April Fools' products that accidentally revealed real demand, and Dan previews a next-generation platform that would let members speak or type what they want and use AI to build an ammo plan.

The back half turns serious. Dan frames ammo as a store of value, comparing it to gold and silver and noting some customers have sold stored inventory back when they needed cash. In the From the Soapbox segment, the conversation moves to personal sovereignty, public education, and Second Amendment education, including GOA's reminder that rights are constitutionally protected rather than government granted. Ammo Squared's stated long-term vision is to store one billion rounds over the next ten years across 10 to 20 warehouses, positioning itself as America's ammunition reserve so future shortages lose their sting.

Questions this episode answers

What is Ammo Squared's business model, and how is it different from buying ammo through normal e-commerce or a gun store?

Ammo Squared is a storage-first ammunition service: members buy a generic need like 9 millimeter practice, store it with the company, and have it shipped whenever they want. That flips the usual transaction, letting people build a stockpile in the background instead of buying and taking delivery all at once.

How much has Ammo Squared grown since the founders' last appearance on the show?

The company grew from about 40,000 members to 147,000 members. It also opened a second facility in Texas and marked its 10-year anniversary in Boise, with a team of roughly 28 to 30 people.

Why did the company cut back from more than 500 calibers, and how does the caliber-of-the-month program work now?

Ammo Squared once offered more than 500 calibers and got stuck holding ones it could not restock, so it pared back. Now it adds calibers through a caliber-of-the-month approach and does not stock a caliber until someone signs up for it, then stays just ahead of that demand.

What happens to a customer's auto buy during an ammunition shortage?

During a shortage the auto buy keeps running while customers wait in line for allocation. Major NATO calibers tend to get prioritized by manufacturers during a crunch, so they flow more reliably than niche rounds.

How does the platform make buying ammo easier for first-time gun owners?

The platform labels rounds by purpose instead of by brand, which simplifies the choice for first-time gun owners. Members can set it and forget it, then log back in later and watch the stored count grow in the background.

Why do the founders describe ammo as a store of value, and can members sell it back?

Dan Morton frames ammunition as a tangible store of value comparable to gold and silver, something that will not go to zero. Some members have sold stored inventory back to the company when they needed cash.

What is Ammo Squared's long-term goal for stored ammunition and warehouses?

The stated long-term vision is to store one billion rounds over the next ten years across roughly 10 to 20 warehouses. The aim is to position Ammo Squared as America's ammunition reserve so future shortages lose their sting.

What new platform features are the founders planning, including how AI might fit in?

Dan Morton previewed a next-generation platform that would let members speak or type what they want and use AI to build an ammo plan for them. The episode also touched on April Fools' products that accidentally revealed real customer demand.

Chapters

• 00:16 — Rapid fire questions
• 02:45 — Who Ammo Squared is and the safety-net model
• 03:53 — Rapid expansion to 147,000 members
• 06:54 — Caliber strategy and caliber of the month
• 11:25 — When a new caliber is worth carrying
• 15:02 — How shortages and waiting in line work
• 16:34 — Simplifying ammo for first-time gun owners
• 20:37 — Set it and forget it, plus variety boxes
• 23:55 — Next-gen platform and AI ammo plans
• 27:32 — April Fools products that revealed real demand
• 31:07 — What's next: one billion rounds stored
• 36:02 — Ammo as a store of value
• 40:28 — From the Soapbox: sovereignty and education
• 53:29 — Where to find Ammo Squared and GOALS 2026

About the guest

Dan and Danielle Morton are the owners and founders of Ammo Squared, which they started in 2015 out of their garage and run from Boise. The company stores ammunition for members and ships it on demand, and the Mortons describe it as building an ammunition safety net for America. By this episode the business had grown to 147,000 members, recently opened a second facility in Texas, and marked its 10-year anniversary with a company of about 28 to 30 people. Danielle has said they homeschooled their three daughters and graduated their last one this year. Their stated long-term goal is to store one billion rounds of ammunition over the next ten years.

Key quotes

"essentially, America's ammunition reserve is what we talk about in our tagline. It's literally a safety net." — Dan Morton

"we don't stock that caliber until somebody actually signs up for it. And then once they sign up for it, we just need to stay ahead of them." — Dan Morton

"There has to be widespread adoption because if there's not, then it just doesn't make sense to carry it." — Danielle Morton

"you set it up like we say set it and forget it and then you forget about it. And then you log in and you're like wow, I've got 300 rounds." — Dan Morton

"We're actually looking at a goal of storing 1 billion rounds of ammunition." — Dan Morton

"when you think about ammo, it's a store of value, right? It's like silver. In my mind, it's like silver. It's like gold. It is something tangible that will never go to zero." — Dan Morton

"your rights are constitutionally protected. They're not government granted, they're not gifts because, you know, we have rights, not privileges." — Kaylee

The conversation gets into why the gap exists. Chapman walks through the three levels of police training and explains that the large departments have gotten better at training over the last 20 years while the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material with no full-time training guy. He draws a hard line between qualification and training: qualification is a standardized test that a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target, while real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and contextual processing. Shooting, he says, is only maybe 10% of gunfighting. The foundation teaches five topics, and the first is constitutional judgment, because officers are taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated."

The episode also speaks directly to armed citizens. Chapman's advice for a traffic stop is plain: be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs at the Article 3 level, in front of a judge. He tells CCW holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along. He closes on trust between communities and their police, the idea that authority is responsibility rather than power, and a call for support at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds training and enters donors in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway.

Questions this episode answers

What is the Task Force 70 Foundation and why was it created?

It is a privately funded nonprofit founded by John "Chappie" Chapman to train small-town police officers who get little or no training. It targets the 70% of American law enforcement working for agencies that serve fewer than 10,000 people, often with 12 officers or less.

Why do most small-town police officers receive so little training?

Large departments have improved their training over the last 20 years, but the bottom 70% rely on second- or third-hand material and have no full-time training staff. Most small agencies lack the resources for the kind of contextual instruction officers actually need.

What is the difference between firearms qualification and real training?

Qualification is a standardized test that proves a person can safely manipulate a firearm and accurately hit a target. Real police shootings turn on decision making, prudence, legal understanding, and reading context, and Chapman says shooting is only about 10% of gunfighting.

How should an armed citizen handle a traffic stop or police interaction?

Chapman's advice is to be polite, keep your hands where the officer can see them, and comply. The roadside is not the place to argue an unreasonable order; that fight belongs in front of a judge at the Article 3 level.

Why does the foundation teach the Constitution instead of just case law and amendments?

Officers are usually taught case law and amendments rather than the Constitution itself, the Federalist and Anti-Federalist Papers, and the original meaning behind the Second Amendment's "well regulated." The foundation's first of five topics is constitutional judgment, which builds that missing foundation.

Is a concealed carry permit the same as being trained?

No. Chapman tells concealed carry holders that having a permit is not training and urges them to seek contextual instruction, a force-on-force class, or a ride-along.

Why does Task Force 70 refuse government funding?

The foundation takes no government money and runs entirely on private donations, partnering with Gun Owners of America and Hillsdale College. This keeps its training independent of government influence.

How can people support the foundation and what do donors receive?

Supporters can give at tf70.org/donate, where $20 a month funds officer training. Each monthly donation also enters the donor in a monthly Bravo Company rifle giveaway.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and guest intro: John Chapman of Task Force 70
• 00:10 — Rapid fire: EDC pick, training gaps, home defense
• 02:53 — Who is Chappie and what is Task Force 70
• 06:37 — The three levels of police training and the bottom 70%
• 09:11 — Qualification vs. training: shooting is 10% of gunfighting
• 11:53 — The two-headed snake: citizen and officer interactions
• 16:02 — A permit is not training: get contextual instruction
• 20:10 — How to handle a traffic stop: be polite and comply
• 27:51 — Officers mirror your behavior: driving the interaction
• 29:30 — Soapbox: constitutional judgment and the missing curriculum
• 35:03 — Primary Arms sponsor read
• 35:29 — Trust, the Constitution, and the Federalist Papers
• 44:34 — Faction, the republic, and educating every generation
• 45:29 — Where to find Task Force 70 and how to support it

About the guest

John "Chappie" Chapman is the founder of the Task Force 70 Foundation. He has been a law enforcement officer since 1992, going back and forth between full time and part time, and has spent most of his career as a SWAT operator and a trainer. He has been in the firearms industry since he was a teenager, working mostly on technical expertise for product development, and started civilian training in about 1998. He has worked for a long time with Bravo Company as a gunfighter. He started Task Force 70 about three years ago and went public roughly four months before this recording; the foundation partners with GOA and Hillsdale College, where Dr. Regan is his mentor. He is now a detective after years in patrol.

Key quotes

"Police shootings have very little to do with marksmanship." — John Chapman

"Having a permit is not training." — John Chapman

"The police don't work for the government." — John Chapman

"The first question should be, is that endangering me or the public?" — John Chapman

"It is not power in our constitutional form of government." — John Chapman

Much of the episode draws on her firsthand view of Venezuela before and after socialism. She describes a country that once had stocked grocery stores and a thriving shooting culture, with the state even providing pistols and ammunition to junior athletes, and how that unraveled after Hugo Chavez came to power. Her warning to gun owners in restrictive states like California and New York is not to leave but to stay and fight, and to understand that culture shifts slowly when a generation grows up without ever learning what the Second Amendment is. She also pushes gun owners to change how they talk to people who disagree. Listen first, invite them to the range later, and let the experience do the convincing.

The back half digs into identity and the industry. Franco breaks down why she rejects the idea of a monolithic gun culture, sharing stories about a range encounter in Texas and her own family, including a mother who supported her shooting career despite firing a gun maybe once in her life. She explains why the Hispanic firearms market is growing, crediting social media and good content for chipping away at an old stigma. The episode closes from the soapbox, where Franco and the hosts make the case that supporting the Second Amendment means doing something, taking a friend shooting, backing organizations doing the work, and asking big companies in the industry to stand up openly rather than stay quiet.

Questions this episode answers

Why do experienced shooters still need to focus on the fundamentals instead of speed?

Gabby Franco says most shooters rush past precision and transitions in a hurry to shoot fast. After 30-plus years behind a gun, her message is that the basics still win, so work the fundamentals before drilling speed.

What was Venezuela's gun culture like before socialism, and how did it change under Hugo Chavez?

Franco describes a Venezuela that once had stocked grocery stores and a thriving shooting culture, where the state even provided pistols and ammunition to junior athletes. That unraveled after Hugo Chavez came to power, which shapes her warning about how quickly a free culture can be lost.

What advice does Gabby Franco give gun owners living in restrictive states like California and New York?

Her advice is not to leave but to stay and fight. She argues that culture shifts slowly, and that the danger grows when a generation grows up without ever learning what the Second Amendment is.

How should gun owners talk to people who are anti-gun or undecided?

Franco urges gun owners to change how they engage: listen first, then invite the person to the range and let the experience do the convincing. She frames a firearm as a tool whose intention, not the object itself, makes it good or bad.

Why is the Hispanic firearms market growing now when it wasn't before?

Franco credits social media and good content for chipping away at an old stigma around firearms. That shift is opening the door for more Hispanic gun owners and helping grow the market.

What does it actually mean to support the Second Amendment if you're a regular, busy citizen?

Franco and the hosts argue that supporting the Second Amendment means doing something concrete, like taking a friend shooting or backing organizations doing the work. It is about personal responsibility, not just holding an opinion.

What role should big firearms companies play in defending the Second Amendment?

Franco makes the case that big companies in the industry should stand up openly for the Second Amendment rather than stay quiet. She also says egos in the industry need to come down so people support those who can do the work.

What is Gabby Franco's background as a shooter and competitor?

Franco started as an Olympic shooter at age 11 in Venezuela and joined the national team in 1996. After moving to the United States she worked six years as a gun shop sales rep and competed on Top Shot in seasons four and five.

Chapters

• 00:09 — Rapid fire questions with Gabby
• 03:14 — From Venezuela to Olympic shooter to Top Shot
• 04:11 — What working in a gun shop taught her
• 05:11 — Inside the Top Shot experience
• 08:04 — Highlighting the person behind the gun
• 10:11 — Venezuela before and after socialism
• 14:16 — Division in society and how to talk to anti-gunners
• 16:22 — What gun culture in Venezuela looked like
• 20:33 — Stay and fight in California and New York
• 28:23 — Breaking the monolithic gun owner stereotype
• 33:05 — Raising kids on the Second Amendment and resilience
• 36:55 — Why the Hispanic firearms market is growing
• 46:12 — From the Soapbox: do something, take personal responsibility
• 55:52 — Big companies should support the Second Amendment openly

About the guest

Gabby Franco is a competitive shooter and firearms instructor who has been shooting for more than 30 years. Born and raised in Venezuela, she started as an Olympic shooter at age 11, joined Venezuela's national team in 1996, and competed for her country overseas. After moving to the United States, she worked at a gun shop as a sales rep for six years and went on to compete on Top Shot in seasons four and five. She holds a bachelor's degree in psychology and is finishing a master's in sport and performance psychology. She is sponsored by Primary Arms and Walther Arms. Franco can be found at gabbyfranco.com, on Twitter as @GabbyFrancoTS4, and on YouTube as Gabby Franco.

Key quotes

"everybody's so fast into trying to go and shooting fast and they forget about the fundamentals" — Gabby Franco

"you don't know what you have until you lose it" — Gabby Franco

"the tool doesn't make it good or bad, it's the intention that is behind it" — Gabby Franco

"Let the experience speak for itself and change that attitude and change their mind" — Gabby Franco

"I think the egos have to come down too in the industry and recognize that let's support those who can do that type of job" — Gabby Franco

The conversation walks through how the products work. There's a drop-in laser where you rack the slide and pull the trigger, plus a partnership with Dry Fire Mag for what Laser Ammo calls the Surestrike mag, which auto-resets so you can pull the trigger without racking. The lineup also includes reactive targets with a built-in timer, recoil-enabled Airsoft guns fitted with a laser barrel, a flash bolt that replaces an AR's bolt carrier group, and the Smokeless Range home simulator. The simulator runs on a standard Windows computer with no apps needed, takes a quality projector pointed at a flat wall or screen, and ships with 10 core drills you can run solo or head-to-head, plus 13 different add-ons. Add-ons include a competition match builder you can share and the Video Scenario Trainer with branching scenarios and a hundred built-in situations. Kristen frames the value as cutting the barriers that stop busy people from practicing, like a range an hour away, bad weather, or kids at home, and points out that five or ten minutes a day fixing one flaw beats no practice at all.

The back half gets into who Kristen trains and why. She works in the women's advocacy space because women learn differently and often get talked over at the range, and she pushes them to load their own magazines, clean their own guns, and use the right terminology. John backs her up with a warning for husbands not to train their own spouses. The episode also covers practicing the full draw, including racking the slide and dropping the safety, since those are the first things to fail under pressure. On the Soapbox segment, Kristen argues that gun owners need to get involved locally and politically, vote, do their research, and have hard conversations, while Kaylee ties it to going on offense for the Second Amendment, constitutional carry, and GOA's lawsuit against the NFA. You can find Laser Ammo at laserammo.com and Kristen personally at wtfkristen.com (Women Training Firearms).

Questions this episode answers

What is Laser Ammo and how long has the company been around?

Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company founded in 2009, started in Israel for defensive shooters. It holds roughly 13 patents and builds laser-based tools that let people practice trigger work at home.

How does dry fire training with a laser work, and do you need a phone or app?

A drop-in laser fires when you rack the slide and pull the trigger, and the Surestrike mag (a partnership with Dry Fire Mag) auto-resets so you can keep pulling without racking. The Smokeless Range home simulator runs on a standard Windows computer with no apps needed.

What does the Smokeless Range home simulator include, and what hardware do you need to run it?

It runs on a standard Windows computer with a quality projector aimed at a flat wall or screen, no apps required. It ships with 10 core drills you can run solo or head-to-head, plus 13 add-ons including a shareable match builder and the Video Scenario Trainer with about a hundred branching situations.

How much practice is enough, and how do you fix a specific shooting flaw?

Kristen says five or ten minutes a day spent fixing one flaw beats no practice at all, and there's no rule that you have to drill for an hour. Dry fire removes the barriers that stop busy people from training, like a distant range, bad weather, or kids at home.

Why do women face barriers getting into firearms, and why shouldn't a husband train his wife?

Kristen works in women's advocacy because women learn differently and often get talked over at the range, so she pushes them to load their own magazines, clean their own guns, and use the right terminology. Co-host John warns men flatly not to train their own spouses.

Why does racking the slide and working the safety matter so much under pressure?

Kristen stresses practicing the full draw, including racking the slide and dropping the safety, because those mechanics are the first things to fail under stress. Building them into muscle memory through live and dry fire is what makes them hold up when it counts.

Why does Kristen think gun owners need to get involved locally and politically?

On the Soapbox segment, Kristen argues gun owners should vote, do their research, get involved locally, and have hard conversations because these issues affect everyone. Co-host Kaylee ties it to going on offense for the Second Amendment, constitutional carry, and Gun Owners of America's lawsuit against the NFA.

Where can you find Laser Ammo and Kristen online?

Laser Ammo is at laserammo.com, and Kristen's personal training business is at wtfkristen.com, which stands for Women Training Firearms.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions
• 02:35 — Who is Kristen and how she got into the industry
• 03:55 — What Laser Ammo is and why it matters
• 04:38 — How the products work, from drop-in laser to Surestrike mag
• 05:46 — The Smokeless Range home simulator and hardware
• 07:15 — Drills, scenarios, and the Video Scenario Trainer
• 09:35 — Why practice matters and cutting the barriers
• 12:24 — Training women and the barriers to entry
• 15:56 — Why men shouldn't train their spouse
• 21:16 — Armchair quarterbacks and practicing under pressure
• 24:19 — Carrying in the chamber and working the safety
• 25:43 — Soapbox: getting involved locally and politically
• 29:41 — Constitutional carry, the NFA, and the 27 words
• 33:38 — Where to find Kristen and Laser Ammo

About the guest

Kristen is from Laser Ammo, where she runs the company's marketing and social media. She took her first firearms class at 18 from the San Diego Police Department because she wanted to be a cop. As a military kid she moved through Virginia and then Texas, where she joined a ladies group that led her into competition shooting. She shoots USPSA and IDPA, and became a sponsored shooter for Laser Ammo after meeting Pat and Mary Grace McMahon in competition. Her day business is marketing, and she also runs her own firearms training business focused on training women. She sits on the board of her local Republican women's group. Her personal website is wtfkristen.com, which stands for Women Training Firearms.

Key quotes

"So Laser Ammo is a dry fire training company." — Kristen

"there's no rule that says you have to practice 60 minutes a day." — Kristen

"practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent." — Kaylee

"You're practicing with the tool that hopefully you'll never have to use for self defense, but when you do, you'll have it in muscle memory if you're actually practicing live and dry fire." — Kristen

"You need to, you need to vote politically, you need to do your research, you need to get involved because all of these things that impact us" — Kristen

"If you're a man out there and you have a spouse, do not train your spouse." — John

The conversation covers PTR's roots and range. The company went to Portugal about 22 years ago and bought the data packages, licensing rights, and tooling for the G3 H&K rifle, then brought manufacturing to South Carolina with a lifetime warranty. Gentry walks through PTR's law enforcement push after the Ukraine war limited H&K component shipments out of Germany, including the LE-only Breacher shotgun and its civilian counterpart the Jack, both 12 gauge AOWs. He also shows a new MP5-pattern SBR built with Magpul and Timney, shipping with a Magpul stock, Magpul handguard, ambidextrous Magpul trigger housing, a Timney two and a half pound two-stage trigger, a 50-round drum, and PTR's first cold hammer forged barrel.

Policy and culture run through the back half. Gentry expects a giant rush once the zero dollar tax stamp takes effect on January 1st, and recounts an NSSF meeting with the ATF director and deputy director where he heard the agency knew the rush was coming and was preparing for it. He shares his own story, from winning a trap shootout at 13 against the number three ranked shooter in the country, to leading Cobra and K-USA, to a smart gun chapter where he says he told off Eric Holder and shelved the technology rather than see it mandated. His through line: the firearms industry is a pack of wolves that defends its own but tears apart anyone who folds on the Second Amendment.

Questions this episode answers

What is PIP, or purposefully induced porosity, and why can it only be 3D printed instead of machined?

PIP is the suppressor technology PTR is built around, which vice president Bill Gentry describes as a titanium or inconel foam printed as a single monolithic piece from nose to tail. He says it cannot be machined and could only be 3D printed.

How quiet is a PTR suppressor, and what does Gentry mean when he says the action is louder than the shot?

Gentry says PIP is so effective that on a nine millimeter the gun's own action becomes louder than the shot itself. The suppressor reduces the muzzle report below the mechanical noise of the cycling action.

How many rounds can a modern PIP suppressor handle compared to the earliest steel wool designs?

Gentry says the earliest suppressors were steel wool wrapped and banded on a barrel that lasted about five or six shots, while current PTR manufacturing reaches a 50,000 to 60,000 round capability.

Where did PTR get the rights and tooling to build its H&K-style firearms?

Gentry says PTR went to Portugal about 22 years ago and bought the data packages, licensing rights, and tooling for the G3 H&K rifle, then brought manufacturing to South Carolina with a lifetime warranty.

What are the Breacher and the Jack, and how do the law enforcement and civilian versions differ?

The Breacher and the Jack are both 12 gauge AOWs that came out of PTR's law enforcement push. The Breacher is law-enforcement-only, while the Jack is its civilian counterpart.

What is inside PTR's new MP5-pattern SBR built with Magpul and Timney?

Gentry shows an MP5-pattern SBR shipping with a Magpul stock, Magpul handguard, an ambidextrous Magpul trigger housing, a Timney two-and-a-half-pound two-stage trigger, a 50-round drum, and PTR's first cold hammer forged barrel.

How does Gentry expect the zero dollar tax stamp on January 1st to affect the suppressor market?

Gentry expects a giant rush once the zero dollar tax stamp takes effect on January 1st, and recounts an NSSF meeting where the ATF director and deputy director said the agency knew the rush was coming and was preparing for it.

Why does Gentry describe the firearms industry as a pack of wolves?

Gentry frames the industry as a pack of wolves that defends and fights for its own with all its might, but tears apart anyone who folds on the Second Amendment. He ties this to a career that ran through Cobra, K-USA, and a smart gun chapter he shelved rather than see the technology mandated.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions
• 01:13 — Most underrated and overrated firearms
• 05:10 — Who is Bill Gentry and his career
• 07:09 — PTR's G3 H&K roots from Portugal
• 08:38 — Why PTR moved into suppressors
• 09:31 — PIP technology explained
• 11:43 — Monolithic prints and round capability
• 14:06 — Zero dollar tax stamp and the coming rush
• 16:16 — The Breacher and the Jack shotguns
• 19:33 — New MP5 SBR with Magpul and Timney
• 24:37 — Soapbox: ATF as teammates again
• 27:54 — The industry is a pack of wolves
• 38:01 — Smart guns and telling off Eric Holder
• 43:01 — Everyday carry and the Dragon Slayer

About the guest

Bill Gentry is the vice president of PTR. He says he has been in the firearms industry for more than 25 years, and was president of Cobra Firearms for 16 years, where he says he took the company from number 27 to number 7 in the industry in four years. He went on to K-USA, helped NORMA ammunition prepare for sale before Beretta bought it, and helped bring Bushmaster back in the Reno, Nevada and Carson City area before joining PTR.

Key quotes

"The sound of the action is now louder than the shot itself." — Bill Gentry

"This is something that cannot possibly be machined." — Bill Gentry

"The more of us in this industry that there are, the stronger we are to fight when we're under attack." — Bill Gentry

"The industry is a pack of wolves and we will defend and fight for each other with all of our might." — Bill Gentry

"We're not guessing at what we do." — Bill Gentry

Most of the conversation is a practical look at how Derya runs. Dustin walks through why they chose Jacksonville, Florida for the US factory: it is close to the Savannah port where shipments from Turkey land, Florida is gun friendly and manufacturer friendly, and the labor pool already had manufacturing experience. He explains the company's pricing strategy of starting low to entice buyers, backed by efficient production across over 140 CNC machines in Turkey plus US machines. The DY9 is the flagship and most popular gun, and the team moved 95% of its production from Turkey to the United States. He previews a heavy 2026 lineup: the DY9Z at a $299 MSRP with a 15 round magazine and ten colors, releasing on Black Friday, the TM22 rimfire at $249 on January 1, and a new shotgun at the end of Q1, plus several more projects.

Kaylee pushes the discussion toward women buyers, sharing her own struggle to find a concealable carry gun that fits a small hand and her advice that companies wanting to know what colors women want should look at Pinterest wedding palettes. Dustin says women are a big market for Derya and that the brand is leaning into tutorial content and a woman's perspective to make the buying experience less intimidating for first time owners. In the Soapbox segment he gives measured takes on the Glock conversation in the industry and on US manufacturing, arguing tariffs make US investment more attractive but manufacturing here is not easy, and that the United States is the deciding factor for nearly every gun design. He closes by plugging the nonprofit Walk the Talk America, which works to bridge the gap between the firearms and mental health worlds.

Questions this episode answers

How did Dustin go from a big four accounting career at PwC to the firearms industry?

Dustin is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after attending the University of Nevada. His longtime friend Martin Twassen brought him into the gun industry at Arms Corp / Rock Island, where he stayed close to 12 years before helping start Derya.

When did Derya incorporate, and how fast did it start manufacturing guns in the United States?

Derya incorporated on March 28, 2024, and was manufacturing guns in the United States within a year of starting.

Why did Derya choose Jacksonville, Florida for its US factory?

Jacksonville is close to the Savannah port where shipments from Turkey land, Florida is gun friendly and manufacturer friendly, and the local labor pool already had manufacturing experience.

What is Derya's pricing strategy, and how does it keep prices low without cutting quality?

Derya starts prices low to entice buyers, backed by efficient production across more than 140 CNC machines in Turkey plus US machines. Dustin says they use premium material and accept making less money than competitors rather than cutting the product.

Which Derya gun is the flagship, and how much of its production moved from Turkey to the US?

The DY9 is Derya's flagship and most popular gun, and the team moved 95% of its production from Turkey to the United States.

What new products is Derya releasing in 2026, and at what price points?

Derya is launching the DY9Z at a $299 MSRP with a 15 round magazine and ten colors on Black Friday, the TM22 rimfire at $249 on January 1, and a new shotgun at the end of Q1, with several more projects to follow.

How does Derya think about women as customers and first time gun buyers?

Dustin says women are a big market for Derya, so the brand leans into tutorial content and a woman's perspective to make buying a gun less intimidating for first time owners. Co-host Kaylee adds that brands wanting to know which colors women want should study Pinterest wedding palettes.

What are Dustin's takes on the Glock conversation and on US versus overseas manufacturing?

In the Soapbox segment Dustin gives measured takes on the industry's Glock conversation, and argues tariffs make US investment more attractive while warning that manufacturing here is not easy. He says the United States is the deciding factor for nearly every gun design.

Chapters

• 00:29 — Rapid fire questions
• 03:18 — Dustin's path from accounting to guns
• 05:05 — Starting Derya and US manufacturing
• 06:28 — Building a brand on its own name
• 07:57 — The DY9 and proving the price point
• 10:53 — Why Jacksonville for the factory
• 13:11 — The 2026 product pipeline
• 17:40 — Colored guns and the market for them
• 18:42 — What women want in a carry gun
• 22:06 — Making the brand less intimidating
• 24:24 — A women's survivors range day
• 27:24 — Soapbox: the Glock conversation
• 30:00 — Tariffs and US manufacturing
• 34:34 — How the US and Turkey teams design together
• 40:05 — Walk the Talk America and wrap up

About the guest

Dustin works on the operations side of Derya, the firearms brand featured in this episode. He is a CPA who worked big four public accounting at PwC after attending the University of Nevada, and he was born and raised in Las Vegas. He entered the gun industry through his longtime friend Martin Twassen, joining Arms Corp / Rock Island during its growth period and staying close to 12 years before helping start Derya, which incorporated on March 28, 2024. He pitched Jacksonville, Florida as the site for the company's US factory. He is also involved with the nonprofit Walk the Talk America, where he handles the money. His last name is not stated in the episode.

Key quotes

"we started, incorporated, we started manufacturing guns in the United States within a year later." — Dustin

"Any volatility, any challenges creates opportunity." — Dustin

"we're using premium material and you're getting a good value product for a good price and we just don't make as much money as other people." — Dustin

"if there's a market for it, you know, we're going to make it work." — Dustin

"Manufacturing United States is not easy." — Dustin

"my advice has always been go to Pinterest, it's free." — Kaylee

Much of the conversation centers on what it means to be a Jewish gun owner. Yehuda pushes back hard on rabbis who say Jews should not own guns, pointing to a 2,500-year warrior heritage and arguing the community has only been anti-gun since 1945. He says post October 7th there was a massive uptick in Jewish firearms owners, but that many stay quiet about it, and his mission is to get them to be loud instead. He also breaks down how draconian Israel's gun laws actually are compared to the US, and reflects on his own move from California to Texas, where a gunsmith removed his bullet button for free and welcomed him to the state.

The back half turns lighter. In the From the Soapbox segment, Yehuda gives his spicy take that his favorite gun company is High Point, because they know exactly who they are and are willing to joke about themselves while the rest of the industry takes itself too seriously. He and John trade ideas for joke products, and both land on the same theme that runs through the episode: take someone to the range, pass the experience on to the next person, and have fun with it. Kaylee ties it back to building momentum for the Second Amendment, from fighting the NFA to changing hearts and minds one first-time shooter at a time.

Questions this episode answers

How did the Pew Pew Jew get into the firearms industry?

He got into it by accident as a first-time Glock 19 owner. After his parents melted down over learning he owned a gun, he set out to teach his own kids gun safety, couldn't find a children's book on the subject, and wrote one himself, which led to podcasts and radio calling him a gun safety expert.

Why did he write a children's book on gun safety, and how long did it take to publish?

He wrote it because he went looking on Amazon for a children's book to teach his own kids gun safety and found that none existed. It took five years to get published because no one would touch it.

What does he say to rabbis and others in the Jewish community who are anti-gun?

He pushes back hard, pointing to a 2,500-year Jewish warrior heritage and arguing the community has only been anti-gun since 1945. His mission is to get Jewish gun owners who stay quiet to be loud about it instead.

Did Jewish gun ownership change after October 7th?

Yes. He says there was a massive uptick in Jewish firearms owners after October 7th, though many stay quiet about it, which is why he works to get them to speak up.

How do Israel's gun laws compare to laws in the United States?

He breaks down how draconian Israel's gun laws are compared to those in the United States, where firearm ownership is far more accessible.

What was it like buying his first gun in California versus moving to Texas?

He bought his first gun in California, then moved from California to Texas, where a gunsmith removed his bullet button for free and welcomed him to the state.

Why does he name High Point as his favorite gun company?

He names High Point because they know exactly who they are and are willing to joke about themselves, while the rest of the industry takes itself too seriously.

What role does taking people to the range play in growing the Second Amendment community?

He and the hosts agree that taking someone to the range and passing the experience to the next person is the best on-ramp, building momentum for the Second Amendment one first-time shooter at a time.

Chapters

• 00:28 — Rapid fire: movies, grail gun, and gun culture
• 03:35 — How he fell into the gun industry by accident
• 04:47 — Writing a children's book on gun safety
• 06:30 — Being a Jewish gun owner and a warrior heritage
• 10:03 — October 7th and Israel's draconian gun laws
• 13:28 — Advice for closeted gun owners
• 16:00 — Why he bought his first gun in LA
• 20:58 — Why the LA riots and North Hollywood shootout didn't move his community
• 23:01 — Buying in California versus a free state in Texas
• 27:38 — Expanding into books like Bullet Points
• 30:36 — From the Soapbox: High Point is his favorite company
• 35:09 — Joke products and not taking yourself too seriously
• 38:38 — Passing the range experience on to the next person
• 46:13 — Wrap up, gift, and where to find him

About the guest

Yehuda, known online as the Pew Pew Jew, is a firearms author and Second Amendment advocate who has worked to amplify the voice of Jewish gun owners for almost nine years. He got into the industry by accident as a first-time Glock 19 owner, then wrote a children's book on gun safety that took five years to get published, going on to write several more children's books and a book titled Bullet Points. He grew up in North Hollywood, California, and now lives in Plano, Texas, where his home range is Mr. Guns. His books and merchandise are available at thepewpewjew.com.

Key quotes

"people with ars don't get in cattle cars" — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew)

"there's a reason why they come after that right. Because when people don't exercise it, it's much easier to take away." — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew)

"I'm just a dude who wrote a book for his kids." — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew)

"gun companies need to stop taking themselves so seriously." — Yehuda (Pew Pew Jew)

"Taking someone to the range is always going to be the best on ramp to get them interested, involved and ready to take the next step." — Kaylee

The heart of the episode is money and honesty. Zach and John agree creators should be paid, because a review can cost thousands in ammo, camera gear, and editing time, and YouTube revenue is pennies. The harder part is the gray area. Zach is blunt that when a check comes in every month, it gets harder to say negative things, so he refuses non-competes and has zero contracts that dictate what he can say. His rule is that brands pay for the work and the viewership, not the opinion. When a product is bad, he tells the company first and asks whether it's a one-off or a real issue, and he has declined to post a positive review on something that simply didn't work even when the company pushed for it.

The group also makes a case for fun. Not every gun needs to be the deadliest, fastest option, and platforms like the GOAT 15 and cool novelty guns can pull new people in. Kaylee frames the through-line around the first-time owner who goes to YouTube to learn, and why censoring creators' language hurts that person most. Zach praises Rumble as a free-speech outlet while arguing against building a 2A-only echo chamber, and he recalls GOA's GOALS show as a relaxed, family-friendly event with real time to talk to companies. He closes on transparency and on inviting his own audience to keep him in check with constructive criticism.

Questions this episode answers

Should gun content creators get paid, and does payment compromise an honest review?

Zach and John argue creators should be paid because a single review can cost thousands in ammo, camera gear, and editing time while YouTube revenue is pennies. Payment does not have to compromise honesty, but it creates a gray area that takes discipline to manage.

How does a reviewer stay honest when a brand pays them every month?

Zach is blunt that a recurring monthly check makes it harder to say negative things, so he sets a firm rule: brands pay for the work and the viewership, not the opinion. When a product is bad he tells the company first and asks whether it is a one-off or a real issue.

Why does Zach refuse non-competes and contracts that dictate what he can say?

Zach refuses non-competes and keeps zero contracts that require him to say specific things, so no brand can dictate his verdict. He has even declined to post a positive review on a product that simply did not work, despite the company pushing for it.

What does YouTube censorship and demonetization do to firearms education for new gun owners?

Demonetization over words like "thermal," strikes, and shifting rules push creators to self-censor, which Kaylee argues hurts the first-time owner most. That new owner goes to YouTube to learn, and watering down a creator's language makes honest firearms education harder to find.

Is Rumble the answer for the gun community, or does it risk becoming an echo chamber?

Zach praises Rumble as a free-speech outlet but warns against building a Second Amendment-only echo chamber, which he sees as bad for growing the community. His own approach is to publish across every platform he can rather than betting on one.

How should a creator handle a product that performs badly?

Zach tells the company privately first and asks whether the failure is a one-off or a real issue before saying anything publicly. He gives a brand grace to fix it, and rewards a company that takes the constructive criticism and actually evolves.

Why does fun matter in the shooting community, and what role do guns like the GOAT 15 play?

The group makes the case that not every gun needs to be the deadliest or fastest option. Fun and novelty platforms like the GOAT 15 pull new people into the hobby, which matters for the health of the community.

What made Gun Owners of America's GOALS show stand out for a content creator and his family?

Zach recalls the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) as a relaxed, family-friendly event with real time to talk to companies. It was the kind of show a creator could bring his family to rather than a packed industry grind.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and Zach's resume
• 00:21 — Rapid fire questions
• 03:11 — Why Tactical Advisor and the 30-second breakdown
• 05:57 — YouTube rules, strikes, and censorship
• 07:14 — Rumble and the echo-chamber question
• 14:05 — The most satisfying part of creating
• 15:42 — Health of the industry and innovation
• 17:04 — The GOAT 15 and guns that are just fun
• 22:29 — GOALS show and bringing family
• 25:44 — Building partnerships and transparency
• 28:53 — Influencer vs content creator
• 31:30 — Soapbox: should influencers get paid
• 36:46 — Constructive criticism and giving companies grace
• 43:09 — Reviews you can't post and keeping creators in check
• 49:34 — Closing words and GOALS 2026

About the guest

Zach is the owner of Tactical Advisor, a firearms content channel he started seven or eight years ago. His full-time job is in law enforcement, fire, and EMS; the host's intro adds that he has over 11 years in law enforcement, is a SWAT team sniper, and a lieutenant with more than 12 years in firearm and EMS [VERIFY]. He works by himself and films out of his closet. He is a husband and father of three with a fourth on the way, and a born again Christian who shares the gospel at the end of his videos. He is known for a 30-second breakdown format that delivers the verdict early, and he publishes across Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Rumble, X, and Telegram.

Key quotes

"You're paying for the content to be created. You're paying for the viewers to see the content. You're not paying for my opinion." — Zach

"I have zero contracts with any company that says you have to say specific things." — Zach

"I don't think we should have an area that's an echo chamber. I don't think it's good for growth of this community if you have an echo chamber that's just 2A only." — Zach

"Things can just be fun. You can have fun guns." — John

"If the company then takes that constructive criticism and begins to evolve and change and make those changes, then we should reward that company." — Zach

"I can't grow as an influencer and change without hearing that." — Zach

The conversation moves through the company's product arc and what drives Angstadt to keep building. Selection by the US Army for its subcompact weapon trials forced a sub-15-inch length requirement that pushed development of a modified cycle system with Deadfoot Arms. Angstadt didn't win that contract (B&T did), but the work gave birth to the MDP, a roller delayed AR9 that runs on Glock magazines, weighs three and a half pounds, and shoots flat and low-recoil like an MP5. Rich explains why the company chases innovation over the industry's me-too habit, and how metal 3D printing (laser sintering titanium, not polymer) gives speed to market. A new design can be printed, heat treated, and test fired in under a week, which lets the team try ideas that a full manufacturing line would never justify. Testing remains the part that can't be rushed, and contracts often dictate the accuracy and reliability standards.

The second half turns to suppressors and the NFA. Suppressor sales have surged on faster approval times, dropping from up to 12 months to as little as a day, and the $200 tax stamp goes to zero on January 1, 2026. Rich predicts deeper integration between firearm and suppressor, more integrally suppressed designs, and suppressors becoming a normalized product gun owners buy in multiples. He's bullish the NFA's days are numbered but less certain short barrel rifles will take off the way suppressors have, given how well pistol braces already serve that role. Kaylee details GOA's lawsuit to gut the NFA, explaining that the zero-dollar tax stamp creates the legal grounds to sue because the Supreme Court previously held the NFA could stand only because it was regulated under a tax. The group discusses normalizing gun culture, getting first-time owners into the fold, range rental programs, and starting new shooters on suppressed .22 so they never develop a flinch. Rich closes by pointing listeners to Angstadt Arms and asking them to support their local gun stores.

Questions this episode answers

How did Angstadt Arms get started, and what was the first gun the company built?

Rich Angstadt founded Angstadt Arms around 2011 after exiting a previous company, wanting a 9mm AR built on a Glock pistol magazine while keeping the AR15 controls. He brought it to SHOT Show in 2015, and the first gun was the UDP-9, a straight blowback AR9 that runs on Glock magazines.

What is the difference between Angstadt's straight blowback and roller delayed AR9s?

The original UDP-9 is a straight blowback AR9 on Glock magazines. The MDP is a roller delayed AR9 that also runs on Glock magazines, weighs three and a half pounds, and shoots flat and low-recoil like an MP5.

How does metal 3D printing change firearm prototyping and speed to market?

Angstadt Arms uses metal 3D printing by laser sintering titanium, not polymer, so a new design can be printed, heat treated, and test fired in under a week. That speed lets the team try ideas a full manufacturing line would never justify, though physical testing still can't be rushed.

Why was Angstadt selected for the US Army subcompact weapon trials, and what came out of it?

The Army's subcompact weapon trials imposed a sub-15-inch length requirement that pushed Angstadt to develop a modified cycle system with Deadfoot Arms. Angstadt did not win the contract, but the work gave birth to the MDP roller delayed AR9.

What is driving the surge in suppressor sales, and what changes on January 1, 2026?

Suppressor sales have surged as approval times dropped from up to 12 months to as little as a day. On January 1, 2026, the $200 tax stamp goes to zero, which Rich expects to normalize suppressors as a product gun owners buy in multiples.

Where does Rich see the next step in firearm innovation heading?

Rich predicts deeper integration between firearm and suppressor, with more integrally suppressed designs and suppressors becoming a normalized purchase. He is bullish the NFA's days are numbered, though less sure short barrel rifles will catch on the way suppressors have, since pistol braces already fill that role.

Why does the zero-dollar tax stamp give GOA legal grounds to sue over the NFA?

Gun Owners of America (GOA) is suing to gut the National Firearms Act (NFA). The argument is that the Supreme Court previously held the NFA could stand only because it was regulated under a tax, so a zero-dollar tax stamp removes that basis and creates the grounds to sue.

How can the industry normalize suppressors and bring first-time gun owners into the fold?

The episode points to range rental programs and starting new shooters on a suppressed .22 so they never develop a flinch. The broader goal is normalizing gun culture and getting first-time owners comfortable in the sport.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and guest introduction
• 00:34 — Rapid fire questions
• 03:49 — Company backstory and family gunsmithing history
• 05:18 — Scratching his own itch: the 9mm AR idea
• 08:33 — From the UDP-9 to the Army trials and the MDP
• 11:00 — Why keep innovating instead of resting
• 13:16 — The next step: suppressors and 3D printing
• 15:00 — Rapid prototyping and metal laser sintering
• 17:46 — R&D timelines and testing standards
• 21:23 — The me-too billet AR15 they shelved
• 23:01 — What breeds the best innovation
• 25:33 — The NFA, the disappearing tax stamp, and suppressor culture
• 31:39 — Soapbox: should you wait until January 1 to buy
• 34:22 — Normalizing suppressors for first-time owners
• 40:03 — GOA's lawsuit to gut the NFA
• 46:27 — Closing thoughts and where to find Angstadt

About the guest

Rich Angstadt is the president and founder of Angstadt Arms, a firearms and suppressor manufacturer the hosts introduce as trusted in over 30 countries. In the episode he says his grandfather got him into firearms at a young age, and that his family, the Angstadts, were master gunsmiths in the 1700s and 1800s who crafted firearms such as Kentucky long rifles and smooth bore muskets. He started the company around 2011 after exiting a previous company, wanting a 9mm AR built around a Glock pistol magazine, and brought it to SHOT Show in 2015.

Key quotes

"I like to see new guns come out, even if they're a little quirky or weird because I like to see people push the envelope" — Rich Angstadt

"It's almost hard not to keep innovating. At least that's, you know, from my standpoint, is we're always trying to elevate the shooting experience." — Rich Angstadt

"oftentimes we're talking about under a week where we have a new idea for design and we can actually be on the range testing it" — Rich Angstadt

"It didn't feel like an Angstadt product." — Rich Angstadt

"I think the NFA days are numbered." — Rich Angstadt

"the NFA tried to dictate gun culture and was successful in many ways for a long time" — Kaylee

Anthony walks through how a model actually gets made. The team starts with the most popular, recognizable guns, gets 3D files from sources or manufacturers, then has engineers shrink the file and rework parts that become weak points at small scale. They 3D print and assemble handmade prototypes, test for weak points, send feedback, and only after the licensee approves do they move to packaging. The process takes about two years on average, sometimes three. He covers product decisions too: which parts ship pre-assembled so the models aren't intimidating to build, how the flashlight accessory went from a non-working prop to a real working light once the engineers solved it, and the limited edition runs numbered 1 to 600 that sell out in days and land on eBay for at least $200. The company is up to about 32 models with six or seven more in the works.

The back half turns to community and culture. Anthony says Goat Guns was one of the most popular booths at GOA's GOALS convention, with Navy SEALs, kids, and women all geeking out, and that the GOA crowd had a noticeably friendlier, more engaged feel than other shows. The hosts and Anthony land on the bigger point: the models bridge a gap. They give people who are intimidated by guns a safe, non-firing way to learn the mechanics, they work as a family activity, and teachers have reached out calling them an educational tool. Kaylee ties it to GOA's mission of building an on-ramp from gun-curious to gun owner. Anthony also talks about Facebook ad pushback and how the brand keeps content family-friendly to keep ads running, credits the roughly 7,000-member Goat Guns Addicts fan group for the brand's social reach, and points listeners to goatguns.com plus retailers like Bass Pro and Cabela's.

Questions this episode answers

How did Goat Guns get started, and what was the original idea behind it?

Founder Brad Lunt started Goat Guns in 2017 after noticing that gamers pay real money for weapon skins in first-person shooters and figured people would pay for tangible miniature guns too. The company began slowly with a few basic models like the AR15.

What role did COVID play in Goat Guns' growth?

The brand took off during COVID when people stuck at home found the models while scrolling Facebook, turning a slow start into fast growth.

How did the partnership with Sig Sauer come about?

Goat Guns' first big break came when Sig Sauer asked the company to make a miniature MCX Rattler. After that, other major gun companies began coming to Goat Guns directly.

What is the full process for turning a real gun into a scale model, and how long does it take?

The team starts with recognizable guns, gets 3D files, has engineers shrink and rework parts that become weak points at small scale, then 3D prints and tests handmade prototypes before the licensee approves and they package it. It takes about two years on average, sometimes three.

How does Goat Guns decide which guns and accessories to make next?

Goat Guns prioritizes the most popular, recognizable firearms, and decides which parts ship pre-assembled so the models aren't intimidating to build. Accessories evolve too, like the flashlight that went from a non-working prop to a real working light once the engineers solved it.

How do Goat Guns help bridge the gap for people who are intimidated by firearms?

The non-firing models give people a safe way to learn how guns work mechanically, function as a family activity, and have been embraced by teachers as an educational tool. Gun Owners of America ties this to its mission of building an on-ramp from gun-curious to gun owner.

What was the reception like at the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) compared to other shows?

Anthony says Goat Guns was one of the most popular booths at GOALS, with Navy SEALs, kids, and women all geeking out, and the Gun Owners of America (GOA) crowd felt noticeably friendlier and more engaged than other shows.

How does Goat Guns handle ad pushback from social media platforms?

Goat Guns keeps its content family-friendly to keep ads running despite Facebook ad pushback, and credits the roughly 7,000-member Goat Guns Addicts fan group for much of the brand's social reach.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Anthony from Goat Guns
• 00:34 — Rapid fire questions
• 02:56 — The Goat Guns origin story
• 03:58 — COVID growth and the Sig Sauer break
• 04:53 — Favorite collaborations
• 05:43 — Picking which guns become models
• 08:44 — Inside the two-year build process
• 10:16 — Deciding what ships pre-assembled
• 11:57 — Model count, limited editions, and a show-and-tell
• 14:54 — When development runs long
• 16:30 — The working flashlight accessory
• 17:55 — Dream collaborations
• 19:16 — The GOALS convention and the GOA community
• 25:03 — Marketing, ad pushback, and the fan base
• 29:40 — From the Soapbox: acceptance and education
• 36:20 — Where to find Goat Guns and goodbyes

About the guest

Anthony is from Goat Guns, the company that makes scale model guns you build and display. He is the person who gets the prototypes for new models and tests them. He found Goat Guns himself through a Facebook ad during COVID. He also collects other models, including model fighter jets. Goat Guns was started in 2017 by Brad Lunt.

Key quotes

"if people are paying for skins, which isn't tangible, you know, what they would probably pay for little miniature guns." — Anthony

"we set the price of the goat guns but the fan base sets the value of them." — Anthony

"It's the safest way to play with guns actually." — Anthony

"there's nothing like seeing a grown man turn into a giddy little kid." — Anthony

"it typically takes around two, sometimes three years." — Anthony

"the mechanics of guns is pretty awesome." — Anthony

Terrio spent his career in Silicon Valley and the data center industry, where he saw how the back end really works, and he walks the hosts through the core ideas: what privacy actually means (granting access only to people you choose), the Fourth Amendment, the addiction that devices are engineered to create, and how cars now report your driving data to manufacturers and insurers. His repeated point is that the question is not whether you can do something on your phone, but whether you should. He argues most people are not tech savvy the way they are gun savvy, and the fix starts with learning the basics rather than reaching for advanced tools like a VPN before understanding them.

On the practical side, Terrio explains what mark37.com sells: de-Googled phones and laptops running GrapheneOS, an open-source operating system built on Android. The devices are carrier agnostic, run the apps people rely on through sandboxed Google Play Services, and let users keep their number by moving the SIM and telling Apple or Google to stop routing their calls and texts. He covers pricing (phones from around $400, laptops from the high $500s), the free 15 to 30 minute privacy consultations his team offers, and a roadmap on the site. Listeners get a 5 percent discount at mark37.com/goa, with a percentage of every sale going back to GOA. The episode closes with the reminder about GOALS 2026, GOA's 50th anniversary celebration in Des Moines, Iowa on August 1st and 2nd.

Links

• mark37.com

Questions this episode answers

What does digital privacy actually mean, and why does the Fourth Amendment matter to it?

Sean Patrick Terrio defines privacy as granting access to your data only to people you choose, and he ties it to Fourth Amendment protections. His core test is not whether you can do something on a device, but whether you should.

Are our phones really listening to and recording us all day?

Terrio argues that phones, watches, cars, and smart-home devices function as surveillance tracking devices that monitor users constantly. He spent his career in Silicon Valley and the data center industry, where he saw how the back end of this infrastructure actually works.

Is a VPN a must-have privacy tool, or is it overhyped?

Terrio cautions against reaching for advanced tools like a VPN before you understand the basics. He argues most people should start by learning fundamentals rather than jumping to tools they do not yet grasp.

What is GrapheneOS, and how is it different from a standard iPhone or Android phone?

GrapheneOS is an open-source operating system built on Android that runs on the de-Googled phones and laptops mark37.com sells. Unlike a standard iPhone or Android phone, these devices are carrier agnostic and run apps through sandboxed Google Play Services to keep data under the user's control.

Can you still use everyday apps on a de-Googled device?

Yes. The devices run the apps people rely on through sandboxed Google Play Services, so users can keep using the software they need while limiting how much data leaves the device.

Will these privacy phones work on any carrier, and can you keep your existing number?

The phones are carrier agnostic, so they work across carriers. You keep your existing number by moving the SIM and telling Apple or Google to stop routing your calls and texts.

How much do mark37.com's phones and laptops cost?

Phones start around $400 and laptops start in the high $500s. mark37.com also offers free 15 to 30 minute privacy consultations, and listeners get 5 percent off at mark37.com/goa, with a percentage of every sale going back to Gun Owners of America.

Are steps like a Faraday bag or turning your phone off at night enough, or just a band-aid?

Terrio treats these as partial measures rather than a full fix. His larger point is that real change comes from understanding how devices track you and taking back control of your data, not from one-off workarounds.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Sean Patrick Terrio
• 00:18 — Rapid fire questions
• 02:59 — Sponsor: Langdon Tactical
• 03:38 — Terrio's Silicon Valley and data center background
• 05:10 — The firearm-with-a-tracker analogy
• 08:11 — What privacy means and the surveillance state
• 11:22 — Devices are addictive by design
• 14:03 — Where the name Mark 37 comes from
• 15:44 — Cars as mobile surveillance devices
• 22:50 — What makes mark37's devices different: GrapheneOS
• 31:14 — Sponsor: Patriot Mobile
• 32:35 — Faraday bags and limits: band-aid or fix?
• 36:42 — Is the AI revolution a net benefit or negative?
• 41:32 — Practical questions: carriers, apps, what to replace first
• 48:17 — Pricing, the GOA discount, and free consultations
• 49:18 — Wrap-up and GOALS 2026

About the guest

Sean Patrick Terrio is a tech executive, digital privacy advocate, and co-founder of mark37.com. He spent the vast majority of his career in Silicon Valley as an entrepreneur and worked across several software companies before moving into the data center industry, where he gained hands-on experience with how digital infrastructure operates on the back end. He wrote a book on that industry called the Data Center Colocation Industry Playbook. He left the industry after concluding it was opposed to his values and faith, and now builds de-Googled phones and laptops running GrapheneOS through mark37.com, which has hundreds of users. He is 45 and has three kids. He also does training and education on AI.

Key quotes

"Most people don't fully grasp that their devices are being listened to all day, every day." — Sean Patrick Terrio

"It's a tool and a weapon because it's been weaponized against you." — Sean Patrick Terrio

"We literally live in a surveillance state right now." — Sean Patrick Terrio

"The question, as I've been hammering, is not can I use it? It's should I use it?" — Sean Patrick Terrio

"So our cars are now mobile surveillance tracking devices." — Sean Patrick Terrio

"You can still live in society, but now have control of your data because that's key." — Sean Patrick Terrio

Matt shares the story behind the channel. After being held at gunpoint and beaten while living in California, he chose to take responsibility for his own defense rather than wait on institutions. He bought his first gun, a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 590, learned the hard way how restrictive California's laws were, and eventually earned a CCW in El Dorado County. A move to North Dakota gave him land, freedom, and the isolation that made being prepared matter even more. He walks through his five-step framework: identify your limitations, plan for the basics of food, water, communications, and first aid, then add self-defense, financial readiness, and finally reinforce and expand what you have.

The conversation turns sharp in the Soapbox segment. Matt's hot take is that the firearms industry needs more transparency, especially honest conversations about why a budget product skips certain steps. That sets off a long exchange about new shooters: guns shipping with a single magazine, salespeople who push what's cool over what a buyer actually needs, and the missing on-ramp for first-time owners. John, drawing on his manufacturing and marketing background, and Kaylee, focused on accessibility and education, both argue the responsibility runs across manufacturers, gun stores, and ranges. Matt closes by introducing the Task Force 70 Foundation (tf70.org), a nonprofit working to ground law enforcement training in constitutional principle, and his new product, the MP field tool.

Questions this episode answers

What is the best prepping tool you can buy for under $20?

Matt names a water filter as the best preparedness tool under $20, pointing to the Sawyer Mini. He says it can filter up to 100,000 gallons and attaches to a smart water bottle, a bladder, or runs on its own.

Why does Matt rank water filtration so high on the preparedness list?

Matt puts water near the top of the survival list, second only to air, because the body needs it more than almost anything else. Having clean water for $20 or less is hard to beat on value.

What experience pushed Matt toward self-reliance and starting Magic Prepper?

While living in California, Matt was held at gunpoint and beaten, which pushed him to take responsibility for his own defense instead of waiting on institutions. He bought his first gun and started the Magic Prepper channel in 2019 after moving to North Dakota.

How restrictive was buying and carrying a firearm in California?

Matt's first firearm was a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 590, and he learned the hard way how restrictive California's laws were. He eventually earned a concealed-carry permit in El Dorado County before moving to North Dakota for more land and freedom.

What is Matt's five-step plan for becoming more prepared?

Matt's framework is to identify your limitations, plan for the basics of food, water, communications, and first aid, then add self-defense, build financial readiness, and finally reinforce and expand what you already have.

Why does Matt think the firearms industry needs more transparency?

Matt's hot take is that the industry should have honest conversations about why a budget product skips certain steps, so buyers understand the tradeoffs. He ties it to better serving new shooters rather than overselling them.

Why is shipping a gun with only one magazine a problem for new owners?

Matt, John, and Kaylee argue that guns shipping with a single magazine, plus salespeople pushing what is cool over what a buyer needs, leaves first-time owners without a real on-ramp. They say the responsibility for education runs across manufacturers, gun stores, and ranges.

What is the Task Force 70 Foundation and what is it trying to change about policing?

The Task Force 70 Foundation (tf70.org) is a nonprofit Matt introduces that works to ground law enforcement training in constitutional principle. He shares it alongside his new product, the MP field tool.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Matt from Magic Prepper
• 00:31 — How Matt got from California to North Dakota
• 01:35 — Rapid fire: the best prepping tool under $20
• 05:53 — The attack that woke him up to self-reliance
• 09:37 — Buying a firearm under California's restrictions
• 15:22 — From enthusiast to a passion for the cause
• 17:54 — Why he started a YouTube channel
• 20:53 — Walking the line between guns and prepping
• 23:10 — EDC options when you can't carry a firearm
• 26:06 — The five-step plan to get prepared
• 33:19 — Soapbox: the case for industry transparency
• 36:14 — One magazine, education, and the new-owner on-ramp
• 54:44 — Task Force 70 Foundation and constitutional policing
• 58:31 — Where to find Matt and wrap-up

About the guest

Matt is the creator behind Magic Prepper, a preparedness and firearms YouTube channel he started in 2019 after moving from California to North Dakota. He launched the channel after being held at gunpoint and beaten in California, an experience he says woke him up to the need for self-reliance. His first firearm was a pistol-grip-only Mossberg 590, and he obtained a CCW in El Dorado County, California. He grew up in Florida dealing with hurricane season and was involved in Boy Scouts of America, and he previously worked in the hospitality industry. Before the channel, he co-founded an everyday carry company, Everyday Carry Specialties (EDC Specialties), with business partner Rob Defeo in Gold River, California. He recently got involved with the Task Force 70 Foundation, a police training nonprofit, and launched his first product, the MP field tool. He teaches hundreds of thousands of people online.

Key quotes

"we need water more than just about anything else besides air" — Matt (Magic Prepper)

"if firearms legislation doesn't affect you directly, it's easy to kind of ignore it" — Matt (Magic Prepper)

"if you do need a firearm, you really, really need a firearm" — Matt (Magic Prepper)

"Waiting for it's not really beneficial because things can happen at any moment" — Matt (Magic Prepper)

"we also have to remember we all start somewhere and we have to have a plan for that education" — Kaylee

"the person behind the counter is still a salesperson and they want the sale" — John

Tim walks through the build. He locked the name, the .com, and the trademark in about 15 minutes, then got his label approved by the government in three days when most people told him a Second Amendment label would never get cleared. He took three people to Kentucky to taste bourbons because he wanted real Kentucky bourbon rather than going to the well-known Indiana distillery, and he found a bottler known as the Bourbon Rabbi. The brand pairs gun-company toppers with each run, capped at 20,000 cases to stay collectible, and the current edition carries Smith & Wesson, who licensed their name and logo for free because they did not want to be in the revenue stream. Tim says he has not taken a penny from the company and has raised over a quarter of a million dollars in two years for groups including Folds of Honor, Stop Soldier Suicide, and a ruck walk in Clearwater, Florida. His reasons run personal: a brother who died by suicide at 18 and a son-in-law's family touched by war.

The back half moves into advocacy. Tim, a lawyer, argues that Congress is for sale and that enough money could push gun rights out of reach, which is why he supports GOA and the Second Amendment Foundation, the groups he says are in court keeping the rights. The hosts and Tim trade thoughts on D.C. v. Heller, grassroots versus elite funding of gun groups, and Senator Tim Kaine's claim that rights come from government. Tim's soapbox is a plea to get along across the aisle, framed by his mother's line that the Second Amendment is like a bird that needs a right wing and a left wing to fly. The episode closes on voting with your dollar, the GOA 50th anniversary in Iowa, and a half-serious plan to do a GOA barrel pick.

Questions this episode answers

What is 2A Bourbon and why did Tim start it?

2A Bourbon is a Second Amendment bourbon brand built to give its proceeds away to veteran and gun-rights causes. Tim, a lawyer and serial entrepreneur, started it to turn a retirement plan into a charity, choosing guns and bourbon as the following a charity needs.

How did a moment on a golf course lead to the founding of 2A Bourbon?

Over Memorial Day weekend of 2022, Tim sliced a ball on the 18th hole and it landed on the name of his son-in-law's twin brother, a fallen North Carolina soldier killed in Iraq, written in chalk as part of a Folds of Honor tribute. That moment pushed him to build the brand.

How did Tim get a Second Amendment bourbon label approved by the government?

Tim locked the name, the .com, and the trademark in about 15 minutes, then got the label cleared by the government in three days, even though he was told a Second Amendment label would never get approved. His prior experience with high-end liquor labels gave him an edge.

Why does the bottle carry the Smith & Wesson name and logo, and what did it cost?

Each run pairs a gun-company topper with the bourbon, and the current edition carries Smith & Wesson. Smith & Wesson licensed its name and logo for free because it did not want to be in the revenue stream, only to help the cause.

How much money has 2A Bourbon raised, and which charities does it support?

In about two years, 2A Bourbon has raised over a quarter of a million dollars, and Tim says he has not taken a penny for himself. The money supports Folds of Honor, Stop Soldier Suicide, and a ruck walk in Clearwater, Florida.

Why does Tim, a lawyer, believe gun rights are at risk and why does he support Gun Owners of America?

Tim argues that Congress is for sale and that enough money could push gun rights out of reach. He supports Gun Owners of America (GOA) and the Second Amendment Foundation because those are the groups he says are in court keeping the rights.

What is Tim's argument for keeping the Second Amendment a nonpartisan issue?

Tim makes a plea to get along across the aisle, framed by his mother's line that the Second Amendment is like a bird that needs both a right wing and a left wing to fly. He ties this to voting with your dollar and a cultural shift on gun rights.

Why did Tim choose real Kentucky bourbon and who bottles 2A Bourbon?

Tim took three people to Kentucky to taste bourbons because he wanted real Kentucky bourbon rather than the well-known Indiana distillery. He found a bottler known as the Bourbon Rabbi, and runs are capped at 20,000 cases to stay collectible.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tim from 2A Bourbon
• 00:20 — Rapid fire: age, proof, and tasting notes
• 03:39 — The golf course moment that started it all
• 05:49 — Naming it, trademarking it, and label approval
• 06:44 — Choosing real Kentucky bourbon and a bottler
• 07:37 — The charities: Folds of Honor and Stop Soldier Suicide
• 09:26 — Gun-company toppers and the Smith & Wesson deal
• 11:45 — Why Kentucky over the big Indiana distiller
• 16:13 — Where to buy it and shipping to 44 states
• 18:35 — Why the Second Amendment drives the business
• 24:53 — Rights, Heller, and grassroots vs elite funding
• 35:39 — Soapbox: get along, left wing and right wing
• 43:40 — Voting with your dollar and the cultural shift
• 53:50 — GOA 50th in Iowa, a barrel pick, and where to find 2A Bourbon

About the guest

Tim is the founder of 2A Bourbon, a Second Amendment bourbon brand that donates its proceeds to veteran and gun-rights causes. He is a lawyer and a self-described serial entrepreneur who has owned a nightclub, a bottled water company, and a digital label company he ran for 16 years, which gave him experience with high-end liquor labels. He says he will turn 75 the month after recording and is based in North Carolina. He started the company after a moment on a golf course over Memorial Day weekend of 2022, where his ball landed on the name of his son-in-law's twin brother, a fallen North Carolina soldier killed in Iraq. The brand is nearly two years old and has raised over a quarter of a million dollars for causes including Folds of Honor and Stop Soldier Suicide. The cause is personal for Tim, who says his brother died by suicide at 18.

Key quotes

"And guess where my ball ended. On top of my son in law's twin brother's name." — Tim

"I've not taken a penny from 2a. I'm giving it all back." — Tim

"Smith and Wesson says we don't want to be in the revenue stream. We want to help you to help the Second Amendment." — Tim

"The Second Amendment is like a bird. It takes a right wing and a left wing to fly." — Tim

"The only thing that politicians fear is losing power." — Kaylee

"The very next amendment is the freedom to protect that speech and protect everything in between." — John

The technical core of the episode is friction, springs, and ejection patterns. Nathan explains why a direct impingement system gums up, how a carbon cutter and sand cutter mechanically clear dirt and debris, and why thermal fitting the barrel keeps accuracy stable as the barrel heats up. He breaks down the difference between round wire and flat wire springs: round wire only lasts about 8,000 cycles before it loses its springiness and is weakest exactly when it strips rounds from the magazine, while Mitchell Defense's flat wire buffer system runs far longer, gives more even forward pressure, and cuts felt recoil. He argues mil-spec should not be the baseline, walks through what mil-spec actually means on bolts and accuracy, and shares an independent endurance test that ran 17,554 rounds without cleaning or lube before the first failure, plus a carbon cutter sent to a machine gun range in Vegas that passed over 20,000 rounds in Colt M4s.

The back half turns to policy and people. Kailey and John lay out where the NFA stands after the tax dropped to zero, what that could mean for SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, and AOWs, and why machine guns stay regulated under the 1986 Hughes Amendment. Nathan describes the real business pain of a slow industry waiting on January. The conversation closes on two things every gun owner can act on now: support local brick and mortar dealers, who should be subject matter experts who match the right gun to the right person instead of pushing incentive products, and go train with a quality trainer, because training exposes the small details, like a failed gun or a forgotten sight, that no theory prepares you for.

Questions this episode answers

What actually makes one AR more reliable than another?

Reliability comes from reducing friction inside the upper receiver, bolt carrier group, and springs, using coatings, better spring technology, and manufacturing that solves the rifle's real pain points. Nathan Mitchell argues much of the industry instead solves problems it invented while ignoring those failure points.

Should mil-spec be treated as the baseline standard for a rifle?

Nathan Mitchell says mil-spec should not be the baseline. He walks through what mil-spec actually means for bolts and accuracy and treats it as a floor a serious build should exceed, not a target to hit.

Why do round wire springs cause reliability problems, and how do flat wire springs fix them?

Round wire springs last only about 8,000 cycles before losing their springiness, and they are weakest exactly when stripping rounds from the magazine. Mitchell Defense's flat wire buffer system runs far longer, delivers more even forward pressure, and cuts felt recoil.

How many rounds can a well-built AR run without cleaning or lube before it fails?

In Mitchell Defense's independent endurance test, a rifle ran 17,554 rounds without cleaning or lube before the first failure. Separately, a carbon cutter sent to a machine gun range in Vegas passed over 20,000 rounds in Colt M4s.

Why does thermal fitting a barrel matter for accuracy?

Thermal fitting the barrel keeps accuracy stable as the barrel heats up during sustained fire. It is one of the friction- and tolerance-control methods Nathan Mitchell uses to keep a rifle consistent under real use.

What happens to the NFA now that the tax stamp has dropped to zero, and will machine guns be affected?

With the National Firearms Act (NFA) tax dropped to zero, hosts Kailey and John discuss what that could mean for SBRs, SBSs, suppressors, and AOWs. Machine guns stay regulated under the 1986 Hughes Amendment and are not opened up by the change.

How should a gun store match the right firearm to a new or first-time buyer?

Local brick and mortar dealers should act as subject matter experts who match the right gun to the right person, rather than pushing incentive products. Supporting those dealers is something the episode frames as tied to protecting the Second Amendment, or 2A.

Why is training with a quality trainer so important, even for experienced shooters?

Nathan Mitchell calls training the most important thing in the industry because it exposes small details theory never prepares you for, like a failed gun or a forgotten sight. Training builds the fundamentals that actually keep a shooter reliable under pressure.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Nathan Mitchell
• 01:18 — Rapid fire questions
• 06:25 — Nathan's military and oil field background
• 08:33 — Solving real problems inside the rifle
• 10:53 — Is mil-spec the bare minimum?
• 14:24 — What makes a Mitchell Defense rifle stand out
• 16:46 — Springs, friction, and felt recoil
• 17:41 — The 17,554 round endurance test
• 19:13 — Building a system: gas ports and ejection patterns
• 21:48 — From the soapbox: a slow industry
• 25:59 — The NFA tax to zero and what it means
• 34:55 — Support your local brick and mortar
• 44:44 — Why training is the most important thing
• 52:35 — Where to find Mitchell Defense and goodbye

About the guest

Nathan Mitchell is the owner of Mitchell Defense. He says he comes from a military background, having served as a Recon corpsman, and an oil field background, where he ran a pipe inspection business and earned his master's degree. After selling that company he moved to Philadelphia and got into the firearm space, starting with custom rifles before building Mitchell Defense around three pillars: accuracy, reliability, and durability. His target market is law enforcement and military end users. He also does a lot of work with Riker USA.

Key quotes

"We don't solve problems that we create." — Nathan Mitchell

"I don't think that mil spec should be the baseline." — Nathan Mitchell

"our last independent endurance Test, we ran 17,554 rounds without cleaning or lube before we had the first failure." — Nathan Mitchell

"Training is the most important thing I think in this industry." — Nathan Mitchell

"support your local brick and mortar, because without them, we lose a huge part of the Second Amendment." — John

"Because the fundamentals are the most important thing." — Nathan Mitchell

A big thread is Canik's investment in U.S. manufacturing. Adam explains that the Prime is built in a 162,000 square foot West Palm Beach facility with more than 100 employees, a step the company took partly because importation of firearms could be restricted by an executive order. He describes the Turkish and American workers as one team and frames domestic production as protection for the company's mission. The conversation then turns to the GOA Canik MC9 collaboration, the company's California launch, and the 187 billboards Canik put up across the state. The city of Oakland forced the billboards down under a permit rule that singled out guns, and Adam recounts how Gun Owners of California and GOA stepped in to fight it.

The episode also becomes a tribute to Sam, the GOA figure who recently passed away, with Adam and the hosts reflecting on his character and his approachable style of debate. They also talk about Rob Young, who took over at Gun Owners of California. From the soapbox segment, Adam delivers a pointed take on the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's assassination, the danger of clips taken out of context, and the responsibility to do your own research and have real conversations. The hosts and Adam also dig into tariffs and thin firearm margins, the future of surplus and Century Arms imports including the AP5 line, and close with a lighthearted run through everyone's dream guns.

Questions this episode answers

Where is handgun design heading after the micro compact wave?

After the micro compact wave that Springfield Armory and Sig's 365 helped start, Adam sees the market moving toward more practical, fuller-size guns. He argues the consumer, not the manufacturer, should now drive what features a pistol carries.

Why is Canik building the Prime in the United States instead of importing it?

Canik USA built the Prime in a 162,000 square foot West Palm Beach facility partly because firearm importation could be restricted by an executive order. Adam frames domestic production as protection for the company's mission and a strong U.S. presence.

What features come standard on the Canik Prime and MC9?

Adam points to a compensator, optics-ready slides, night sights, co-witnessing, and an included G-Code holster. His argument is that Canik puts real value straight in the box rather than leaving it to the aftermarket.

What happened with Canik's billboard campaign in Oakland, California?

Canik put up 187 billboards across California for its launch, but the city of Oakland forced them down under a permit rule that singled out guns. Gun Owners of California and Gun Owners of America stepped in to fight it.

How did the GOA Canik MC9 collaboration come together?

The episode covers the Gun Owners of America (GOA) Canik MC9 collaboration alongside Canik's California launch and the fight over the Oakland billboards. Adam discusses how GOA and Gun Owners of California backed the effort.

How are tariffs affecting firearm pricing and company margins?

Adam talks through tariffs and the already thin margins on firearms, explaining the pressure they put on pricing. The discussion ties this to the broader economics of importing and building guns.

Is military surplus from Century Arms drying up?

Adam discusses the future of surplus and Century Arms imports, including the AP5 line. Canik paired with Century Arms in 2012, giving him a direct view into where surplus is headed.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome back, Adam from Canik
• 01:16 — Rapid fire questions
• 06:58 — Adam's role and Canik's growth
• 07:55 — The Prime and the micro compact shift
• 13:54 — Putting value in the box
• 16:11 — Bringing manufacturing to the USA
• 20:17 — The GOA Canik MC9 collaboration
• 22:54 — California launch and the Oakland billboards
• 25:50 — Remembering Sam and meeting Rob Young
• 34:23 — Soapbox: out of context and doing your research
• 47:52 — Speech, intent, and where the line is
• 59:48 — Tariffs and thin firearm margins
• 1:03:16 — Surplus, Century Arms, and the AP5 line
• 1:05:24 — Dream guns and the Liberator

About the guest

Adam is the Vice President of Business Development and Marketing for Canik USA, based in West Palm Beach, Florida. He says Canik is originally out of Turkey, paired with Century Arms in 2012, and has grown into one of the largest striker-fire pistol companies in the United States. He describes Canik's 162,000 square foot West Palm Beach facility, which has over 100 employees building the Canik Prime. This was his second appearance on the podcast, having previously been on episode two. Last name spelling unconfirmed [VERIFY].

Key quotes

"Now it should be the consumer telling the gun manufacturer what they want. And that's in every business. That's not just guns." — Adam (Canik USA)

"we knew we needed to have a strong presence in the United States in order to be able to continue with what our mission and our goal is." — Adam (Canik USA)

"if you allow that to make you angry, you lose sight of what's important." — Adam (Canik USA)

"Do your research. Do your research on everything on both sides of the agenda." — Adam (Canik USA)

"while we're all competitors, we're in this together." — Adam (Canik USA)

"we can't let comments like that go unanswered. We have to insist on the Education being correct." — Kaylee (host)

Much of the conversation centers on mission over sales. Isaac explains that T. Rex spent the last few weeks pushing to legalize suppressors even though the company does not sell them, and he describes a holster as a starting point that helps move people from buying a gun and putting it in a closet to actually carrying and accepting the responsibilities that come with it. He calls T. Rex a second amendment and sixth commandment company, ties carrying to the duty to stop a murderer, and lays out their goal of building a broad, decentralized citizen defense industry rather than becoming a single giant source. He encourages new advocates to meet people where they are: you do not need 10,000 hours of range time to teach the four rules of gun safety and take someone to the range.

The back half gets into politics and innovation. Isaac names Thomas Massie as his ideal pro-gun candidate, an engineer who understands automation and economics, and points to Senator Bill Haggerty's focus on manufacturing and reindustrializing the country. His biggest pet peeve with politicians is cowardice on issues voters actually want them to touch, like the 90-year-old short-barreled weapon ban. He argues that artificial limits, from the NFA tax stamp to rules blocking domestic rare earth magnets and lithium battery production, stifle the innovation firearms have historically driven, citing Eli Whitney and interchangeable parts. He warns that the idea that government can declare a shape of matter illegal poisons the freedom to think and build well beyond firearms. He closes by pointing listeners to the T. Rex Arms YouTube channel and their podcast, T Rex Talk.

Questions this episode answers

What is T. Rex Arms and what does the company actually sell?

T. Rex Arms is a family-owned tactical company in Centerville, Tennessee, owned by four brothers plus a brother-in-law and eleven years in business. Holsters are its flagship, but it has grown into plate carriers, chest rigs, weapon lights, magazines, optics, thermal and night vision, and medical gear.

Why does a holster company spend so much time on Second Amendment advocacy?

Isaac Botkin frames advocacy as the mission behind the products, putting cause over sales. He sees a holster as a starting point that moves people from buying a gun and leaving it in a closet to actually carrying it and accepting the responsibilities that come with it.

What does Isaac Botkin mean by calling T. Rex a second amendment and sixth commandment company?

Botkin ties the right to carry to a moral duty to stop a murderer, pairing Second Amendment freedom with the sixth commandment against killing. For T. Rex, carrying a firearm is about accepting the responsibility to protect innocent life, not just exercising a right.

How can someone new to firearms become an advocate without years of training?

Botkin says you do not need 10,000 hours of range time to make a difference. Meet people where they are: you can teach the four rules of gun safety and take someone to the range, helping grow a broad, decentralized citizen defense industry rather than relying on a few experts.

Why did T. Rex push to legalize suppressors when they do not sell them?

T. Rex spent recent weeks pushing to legalize suppressors despite not selling them, because the company puts the mission ahead of its own sales. The goal is a broad citizen defense industry where many companies advance gun rights, not a single giant source.

What does Isaac see as the biggest artificial limits holding back firearms innovation?

Botkin points to limits like the National Firearms Act tax stamp, the roughly 90-year-old short-barreled weapon ban, and rules blocking domestic rare earth magnet and lithium battery production, arguing they stifle the innovation firearms have historically driven.

Who does Isaac Botkin name as his ideal pro-gun candidate, and why?

Botkin names Thomas Massie as his ideal pro-gun candidate, an engineer who understands automation and economics. He also points to Senator Bill Haggerty's focus on manufacturing and reindustrializing the country.

Why is the company named T. Rex Arms?

The name is a joke. With its short arms, the T. rex specializes in small arms, which is exactly what the company makes.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Isaac Botkin
• 00:45 — Rapid Fire questions
• 03:00 — What T. Rex Arms is and what it sells
• 04:49 — Working in a family-owned business
• 06:26 — Why T. Rex advocates on state-level gun policy
• 11:09 — From gun owner to concealed carrier
• 13:57 — Advice for new firearms advocates
• 15:45 — The ideal pro-gun candidate and Thomas Massie
• 18:09 — Suppressors and putting mission first
• 20:04 — Building a broad citizen defense industry
• 21:55 — Why holsters and what makes the design different
• 24:39 — The story behind the T. Rex Arms name
• 25:31 — Soapbox: cowardice and artificial limits on innovation
• 31:23 — History, ideas have consequences, and closing

About the guest

Isaac Botkin is from T. Rex Arms, a holster and tactical gear company based in Centerville, Tennessee, about an hour west of Nashville. The company is owned by four brothers plus a brother-in-law and is 11 years in business. His father was a video producer in the 80s and 90s and taught the brothers both video production and political and firearm activism, and Isaac worked on Gun Owners of America videos his dad made when he was about 10 or 11 years old. His youngest brother Noah runs their web development company, and he references brothers David and Lucas in the episode. Isaac is slated to appear on a firearms innovation and technology panel at GOALS.

Key quotes

"My brother David has a saying like a holster is like a business card for freedom." — Isaac Botkin

"Our goal is to build a citizen defense industry that is broad. And our goal is to see a number of companies kind of do what we're doing." — Isaac Botkin

"We take our products very seriously. We take our customers very seriously. We don't take ourselves that seriously." — Isaac Botkin

"If you don't have 10,000 hours of range time, don't worry about that." — Isaac Botkin

"We spent a lot of time over the last few weeks talking about suppressors, getting people to legalize suppressors. We still don't sell suppressors." — Isaac Botkin

"It's like a lot of voters want you to touch it. Sir, please do not be afraid of something we don't even know what you're afraid of." — Isaac Botkin

"Small arms are our specialty." — Isaac Botkin

Over the years SOWW built out three main programs. The original immersion in nature through hunting, fishing, sporting clays, and golf came first. After losing the man Joel calls their early poster child to suicide, the founders realized they needed to do more, so they started a canine program in his honor and added the Operator Reset, a week-long treatment for individuals dealing with PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. Joel shares the stories that stick with him, including a wounded warrior who outran everyone on a prosthetic leg and never complained, and a man on roughly 17 medications who slept without them after just three hours in the program. He also walks through how a service dog gave one veteran his purpose and protection back, opening doors as ordinary as taking his kids to Disney World.

The conversation turns to policy in the back half. Joel makes a direct argument that the government should be taking responsibility for the people it sends to war, and that nonprofits like his shouldn't have to exist to care for those who sacrificed so much. He explains the real costs behind a single service animal, between 25 and 50 thousand dollars depending on training, and how SOWW keeps 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose because the board takes no money by its own bylaws. He closes with the three best ways to help: donate any amount, help find people who need the program, and volunteer. The episode wraps with a gift for Joel from AAC Ammo and Palmetto State Armory.

Questions this episode answers

What does SOWW stand for and who does the charity serve?

SOWW stands for Special Operations Wounded Warriors. The charity focuses primarily on special operations personnel from all branches of US service, immersing veterans who carry similar traumas in nature and treatment programs.

How did Special Operations Wounded Warriors get started?

It began when a feral hog problem at a hunting club near Fort Bragg turned into a wild pig hunt for wounded special operators. That hunt grew into a charity, founded by five men around the simple idea that like-minded guys around a campfire can fix just about anything.

What are SOWW's three main programs?

SOWW runs immersion in nature through hunting, fishing, sporting clays, and golf; a canine service-dog program; and the Operator Reset, a week-long treatment for PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues.

How much does it cost to provide a veteran with a service dog?

Founder Joel Pellici says a single service animal costs between 25 and 50 thousand dollars, depending on the level of training the dog receives.

What percentage of donations goes directly to SOWW's mission?

SOWW keeps 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose. Its board is unpaid and the bylaws prohibit founders from taking any money.

Why does SOWW argue the government should do more for wounded warriors?

Joel Pellici argues the government should take responsibility for the people it sends to war, and that nonprofits like SOWW shouldn't have to exist to care for those who sacrificed so much.

How can someone get help from SOWW or nominate a veteran?

Veterans can self-nominate for the program, and supporters can help by finding people who need it. Joel notes that someone may be worse off than you, but that doesn't mean you don't need help too.

What are the best ways to support SOWW?

Joel Pellici names three: donate any amount, help find veterans who need the program, and volunteer your time. Because the board takes no pay, the bulk of every contribution reaches the mission.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Joel from SOWW
• 00:13 — Rapid Fire questions
• 01:01 — What SOWW is and who it serves
• 01:29 — The three programs: nature, canine, Operator Reset
• 03:34 — How veterans get help and self-nominate
• 04:04 — The campfire origin story and the first pig hunt
• 05:17 — How many lives the program has touched
• 05:56 — The stories Joel hangs his hat on
• 08:42 — The real cost of a service animal
• 10:40 — The policy side: federal gaps for wounded warriors
• 12:22 — What the government should fix
• 13:45 — Impact on the whole family unit
• 16:15 — Advice and the best ways to help
• 18:07 — Where to find SOWW and a gift from AAC and PSA

About the guest

Joel Pellici is one of the five founders of Special Operations Wounded Warriors (SOWW), a charity that focuses primarily on special operations personnel from all branches of US service. The organization runs three main programs: immersion in nature through hunting and fishing, a canine service-dog program, and a week-long Operator Reset treatment for individuals struggling with PTSD, traumatic brain injury, and family issues. SOWW's board is unpaid and its bylaws prohibit founders from taking money, with 91 to 95 percent of contributions going directly to its purpose. The charity has helped people in the hundreds since its founding.

Key quotes

"if you sit around a campfire long enough, you can fix just about anything" — Joel Pellici

"You would think that it wouldn't be necessary for nonprofits to be there to take care of people that sacrifice so greatly for a country." — Joel Pellici

"I watched him buckle to the ground in tears and thanks when he was introduced to a service dog." — Joel Pellici

"we typically average 91 to 95% of our contributions go directly to the purpose they're supposed to" — Joel Pellici

"somebody might be worse than you, but it doesn't mean you don't need help too" — Joel Pellici

The conversation traces why Clay built it. He and his partners own Lone Wolf and Primary Weapon Systems, and roughly a week after closing on Lone Wolf they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. That experience, which he ties to Operation Choke Point, convinced him the payments chokehold is the real threat to the industry. He built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that made the squeeze possible, and he built it compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering.

Around the product talk, Clay and the hosts dig into policy and culture. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp, and he is frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA while Republicans hold the White House and both chambers. Kaylee details GOA's two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus the push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. They also discuss Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID, GOA's 2A Defenders college program and its Chambered for Success career segment, and the shared problem of being blocked on social platforms. Clay tells his own story, from Stanford swimmer to Navy service to tech to running for governor of Georgia, and ends by pointing listeners to bulletvault.com.

Questions this episode answers

What is Bullet Vault and how does buying a bullet through it actually work?

Bullet Vault is an alternative currency and payment system built on real physical bullets and recorded on the blockchain. A customer buys an actual bullet and takes title to it, the company stores it in secure FFL- and SOT-licensed warehouses, and the owner can transfer it to a friend like a Venmo, ship it to themselves to shoot, trade it into other calibers, or sell it back to the network for liquidity.

Why does Clay argue that a 9mm bullet meets the economic definition of money?

Clay argues that an American-made, full metal jacket, consistent grain weight 9mm bullet fits the textbook definition of money. He frames it as a precious metal with functional utility that is more transferable than a bar of gold.

Why did Clay build Bullet Vault on the blockchain instead of relying on transaction processors?

Clay built Bullet Vault on the blockchain so it would not depend on the handful of transaction processors that make the payments squeeze on the firearms industry possible. He sees that processor chokehold, not the guns themselves, as the real threat.

What happened with Lone Wolf's credit card processing, and how does it connect to Operation Choke Point?

About a week after Clay and his partners closed on Lone Wolf, they lost their credit card processing because their processor was backed by Bank of America, which runs periodic sweeps and drops any business near a guns or ammo SIC code. Clay ties that experience directly to Operation Choke Point and the broader payments chokehold on the industry.

How did Clay build Bullet Vault to stay compliant with know your customer laws and avoid being shut down?

Clay built Bullet Vault to be compliant with know your customer laws from the very first transaction, specifically so a future administration could not shut it down as money laundering.

What is Gun Owners of America doing through 2A Defenders and Chambered for Success to bring younger people into the movement?

Gun Owners of America (GOA) runs a 2A Defenders college program and a Chambered for Success career segment, both aimed at bringing younger people into the Second Amendment movement. The hosts tie this to Gen Z trending libertarian after COVID and to the idea that culture is upstream of politics.

What is GOA pushing for on suppressors and the NFA, and what is Clay's view on the tax stamp?

GOA organized two letters, one from industry manufacturers and one from influencers, pushing to remove suppressors and short barrel rifles from the NFA, plus a push to add the SHORT Act in the Senate. Clay is hopeful but cautious about the reconciliation bill zeroing out the $200 suppressor tax stamp and frustrated that Congress will not fully repeal the NFA.

Who is Clay of Bullet Vault and what is his background?

Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault and an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in a faith and firearms household in Georgia, swam at Stanford, served in the Navy, spent most of his career in technology, and ran for governor of Georgia.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Clay from Bullet Vault
• 00:17 — Rapid fire: calibers Clay is watching
• 01:23 — His EDC and favorite calibers
• 04:49 — Q3/Q4 outlook: suppressors and the tax stamp
• 09:14 — Building an on-ramp and culture upstream of politics
• 11:46 — GOA's industry and influencer letters
• 16:41 — 2020, Gen Z, and a libertarian generation
• 21:34 — 2A Defenders and Chambered for Success
• 27:54 — Reagan's diary and Trump parallels
• 31:35 — Clay's story: Stanford, Navy, tech, governor run
• 41:52 — Losing credit card processing and Operation Choke Point
• 44:30 — The bullet token idea and bullets as money
• 50:40 — Legality, KYC compliance, and the social media block
• 54:45 — Where to find Bullet Vault and sign-off

About the guest

Clay is a co-founder of Bullet Vault. He is also an owner in Primary Weapon Systems and Lone Wolf. He grew up in Georgia in a faith and firearms household, went to college at Stanford, where he swam, and served in the Navy. He worked in technology for most of his career, ran for governor of Georgia, and runs his own consulting business. He is 52 and married with two children. His brother-in-law built the Bergara rifle brand.

Key quotes

"I want a small carry weapon. I feel like I can shoot well." — Clay

"If we get 200 goes down to zero, it's a massive win for our movement." — Clay

"the great law of the universe, as so many people have said, is culture is upstream of politics." — Kaylee

"in the same way people buy gold, bullets are a precious metal as well." — Clay

"they're not just buying a crypto, they're actually buying a physical bullet that they own. They take title." — Clay

"we built this thing from the very first transaction from the ground up to be compliant with the know your customer laws." — Clay

"I understand the ammo market and the commodity price and how it undulates better than I do most equity stocks." — Clay

The conversation centers on new gun owners and how to start right. Barber explains where to find local competitions (practiscore.com), how a squad will walk a first-timer through the rules, and why reliability matters more than chasing the cheapest option. His line for cheap-gun shoppers is blunt: how cheap is your life? He pushes education over impulse buys, says there is no such thing as a girl gun, only a gun that fits your hand, and stresses that South Carolina's constitutional carry removes the permit requirement but not the responsibility to know the laws and operate safely. Kaylee ties this to GOA's view of personal responsibility, framing training, ammo, the optic, and the holster as an investment in your own value and safety.

Barber covers self-defense insurance through Right to Bear, where he now manages social media, influencers, affiliates, and content. He explains it covers both civil and criminal defense, includes a member portal and attorney access within 24 to 48 hours, and costs about $17 a month. He shares his three most-skipped drills (the five by five, the bill drill, and strong-hand/weak-hand shooting), recommends trainers and facilities like AR Tactics in Charlotte and Buck Doyle in Utah, and lays out his gear gripes as an instructor: no SERPA holsters, no cloth holsters, and always bring a belt. The episode closes on the firearms community itself, the people who lend a battery or a belt when something breaks, and Barber plugging his own business, Barber Training Solutions.

Questions this episode answers

Where should someone interested in competition shooting actually start, and how do they find local matches?

Tre'Von Barber points new shooters to practiscore.com to find local competitions. At a first match, the squad walks the newcomer through the rules, so you can show up and learn the format on the spot.

How much should a first-time buyer spend on a reliable handgun, and is a cheap gun worth the savings?

Barber says reliability matters more than chasing the cheapest option, and challenges cheap-gun shoppers with the question of how cheap your life is. He frames the gun, ammo, optic, and holster as an investment in your own safety rather than a place to cut corners.

What is the biggest mistake new firearm owners make when buying their first gun?

Barber says new owners make impulse buys instead of educating themselves first. He stresses that there is no such thing as a girl gun, only a gun that fits your hand and recoils in a way you can control.

Does constitutional carry mean you no longer need any training or education?

No. Barber explains that South Carolina's constitutional carry removes the permit requirement but not the responsibility to know the laws and operate safely. It is your right to defend yourself, but you still need to educate yourself.

What does Right to Bear's self-defense insurance cover, and how much does it cost?

Right to Bear's self-defense coverage handles both civil and criminal defense, includes a member portal and attorney access within 24 to 48 hours, and costs about $17 a month. Barber now manages social media, influencers, affiliates, and content for the company.

What are the top three drills most people leave out of their training?

Barber's three most-skipped drills are the five by five, the bill drill, and strong-hand/weak-hand shooting. He points to these as the work people tend to avoid but shouldn't.

Which trainers and facilities does Tre'Von Barber recommend for situational and long-range training?

Barber recommends AR Tactics in Charlotte and Buck Doyle in Utah. He runs his own instruction through Barber Training Solutions, based out of Rock Hill, South Carolina.

What gear do instructors not want to see in a class, and why?

As an instructor, Barber's gear gripes are no SERPA holsters, no cloth holsters, and always bring a belt. These are the details that get in the way of running a safe, smooth class.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire
• 01:54 — Tre'Von's background and path into guns
• 05:18 — Getting started in competition shooting
• 07:21 — Two-gun matches and PRS goals
• 08:33 — Writing PSA's training curriculums
• 09:38 — From first firearm to first class
• 10:53 — Budget, reliability, and the value of your life
• 14:00 — Biggest mistakes new buyers make
• 15:39 — Personal responsibility and knowing the laws
• 18:35 — Why self-defense insurance matters
• 22:56 — From the Soapbox: top three drills
• 29:19 — Recommended trainers and facilities
• 33:46 — Instructor gripes: holsters, guns, and belts
• 37:39 — The community and wrap-up

About the guest

Tre'Von Barber was born and raised in Rock Hill, South Carolina, and grew up wrestling and in Boy Scouts. He wrestled through college at the University of South Carolina Upstate. He got into guns at 21 and moved into competition shooting after a back injury ended his wrestling. About two years into gun ownership he began teaching concealed weapon permit and basic handgun classes, and about two years after that he started teaching higher-level marksmanship to competitors and law enforcement. After meeting Frank Cannon, a president and one of the owners of Right to Bear, he came on to run the training program at Palmetto State Armory (Right to Bear's sister company), writing new curriculums and hiring staff, then moved into a full-time Right to Bear role managing social media, influencers, affiliates, and content. He owns and runs Barber Training Solutions, based out of Rock Hill, South Carolina. He has a five-year-old child.

Key quotes

"There's no such thing as a girl gun. There's a gun that fits your hand, there's a gun that recoils in a way that you can control it." — Tre'Von Barber

"how cheap is your life? Is your life 300 bucks or is your life 500 bucks?" — Tre'Von Barber

"when you're investing into your carry gun, you are investing into your value as a person as well and protecting that value." — Kaylee

"It's your right to defend yourself. However, you need to educate yourself." — Tre'Von Barber

"someone who takes personal responsibility not only in the use of their firearms, but in the defense of their right to own them." — Kaylee

The heart of the episode is the ATF story. Joe sold two handguns in two months, both at a loss, to help fund his videos. An ATF agent he believes was named Michael called the gun shop where Joe worked, took his personal information, and told Joe he was operating as an FFL without a license by way of making firearms content online. When Joe explained he lost money on the sales, the agent said he didn't believe him, then called back an hour later threatening to send a car to pick him up unless Joe filed for an FFL. Joe and his team got their FFL SOT, an eight-month ordeal that required a member who owned a home, just to keep receiving guns for reviews. The hosts call it an attack on two constitutional rights at once, the Second Amendment and the First.

Joe also lays out life in a restrictive state. Washington's rules push him to public land to shoot, Rainier Arms has moved most of its operations to Kansas, Aero Precision nearly left before the governor offered tax exemptions to keep it, and some manufacturers refuse to ship even to a licensed dealer. He points to groups like Discovery Daddies and ASI matches as on-ramps for new shooters, urges companies to fund local range events, and argues the real long game is teaching the next generation before they reach voting age. His closing message: if you live in a free state, don't take it for granted, and vote.

Questions this episode answers

How did Joe get started making firearms content, and what gap was he trying to fill?

Joe came up watching creators like FPS Russia and worked as a gunsmith building custom rifles. He started Desk Pop because online gun content had turned almost entirely into serious military-vet material, and he wanted firearms to feel approachable and fun again.

Why has gun culture shifted from a serious, duty-first tone to a more fun and welcoming one?

Joe credits a younger generation that rejects the idea you need a service record or a bolt-action rifle to belong. They are building a community around training, competition, and the right to own what you want, which makes guns feel approachable again.

What exactly happened when the ATF called Joe about his YouTube channel?

An ATF agent Joe believes was named Michael called his gun shop, took his personal information, and claimed he was operating as an FFL without a license by making firearms content. When Joe said he lost money on his two gun sales, the agent didn't believe him and later threatened to send a car unless Joe filed for an FFL.

Why did Joe and his team go through the eight-month process of getting an FFL SOT?

After the ATF pressured Joe to license, he and his team pursued an FFL SOT so they could keep legally receiving firearms for reviews. The eight-month process required a team member who owned a home to qualify.

Why do some firearms companies refuse to ship to Washington even when the buyer holds a valid FFL?

Joe describes Washington as a restrictive state where some manufacturers won't ship even to a licensed dealer. The climate has pushed Rainier Arms to move most operations to Kansas and nearly drove Aero Precision out before the governor offered tax exemptions to keep it.

What can people in restrictive or banned states do to stay in the fight?

Joe urges companies to fund local range events and stresses teaching the next generation before they reach voting age. His closing message is that if you live in a free state, don't take it for granted, and vote.

How can someone find range days and competition events to get plugged into the firearms community?

Joe points to groups like Discovery Daddies and ASI matches as on-ramps for new shooters. He also calls on companies to fund local range events so more people have a place to start.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions
• 03:03 — Who is Joe and the origin of Desk Pop
• 04:51 — Why gun content stopped being fun, then got fun again
• 06:19 — The cultural shift in gun shops and the younger generation
• 09:01 — Crossing over to the political side
• 12:25 — Constitutional carry and a more welcoming community
• 14:31 — Staying in the fight from a restrictive state
• 17:17 — Washington restrictions and companies that won't ship
• 19:51 — Finding range days, Discovery Daddies and ASI matches
• 22:57 — Aero Precision, Rainier Arms and companies leaving the state
• 26:26 — From the Soapbox: the ATF came after the YouTube channel
• 29:25 — On a list, the registry, and First Amendment concerns
• 34:45 — Zero tolerance policy and holding the ATF accountable
• 37:55 — Why small creators are most at risk
• 39:08 — Closing words, socials, and a call to vote

About the guest

Joe is one of three faces of the firearms YouTube channel Desk Pop. He has been into firearms his whole life and came up through media, marketing, video, and photo work, citing FPS Russia as an early influence. He worked as a gunsmith at a gun shop building custom rifles. He started a media company at age 20 that did just over half a million dollars in revenue its first year before his business partner pushed him out. He lives in Washington and was filming in Texas at the time of recording. He and his team hold an FFL SOT, obtained last year. The channel had 80,000 subscribers at the time of the ATF call. [VERIFY current channel size]

Key quotes

"I mean, guns are fun at the end of the day, like, I don't care how serious you are about your content, you really enjoy firearms." — Joe

"he called me and he said that I was operating an FFL without a license because I was selling firearms for revenue. And I said, no, I'm not selling firearms for revenue. I actually lost money on both of those sales." — Joe

"If you make gun content online and you are seen with a bunch of firearms, you're on a list." — Joe

"You fought an eight month battle to get your FFL so that you can continue to fuel the community." — Kaylee

"don't take your freedom for granted. For sure, if you live in a free state, lock it down while you can." — Joe

The heart of the conversation is how to choose an optic and why Vortex stands behind what it sells. Mark explains the VIP warranty, which founders Dan and Margie Hamilton built on a customer-first philosophy: a lifetime, unconditional, no-fault warranty that repairs or replaces a product no matter its condition or how the damage happened. He shares warranty stories, from optics run over by trucks to a spotting scope that broke in half when it fell off a cliff and was duct-taped back together so the hunter could finish the hunt. On product selection, his advice is to start with the application, fit the choice to what you do 80% of the time, and resist the idea that more magnification is always better. He breaks down red dots, LPVOs, and higher-magnification scopes for AR use, and covers first versus second focal plane.

The episode also gets into hunting culture and recruitment, with Mark arguing that sharing wild game with people who have never hunted is one of the most powerful ways to bring the next generation in. He points to tools like onX Maps and public land access as ways for lapsed hunters to get back out, and notes that budget rifles and gear have gotten much better. He talks about Vortex's customer engagement, how repeated customer comments led to green dots in the Defender series, and the company's military work, including the David versus Goliath story behind the XM157 fire control. He closes on Vortex's steadfast support for the Second Amendment. The episode is brought to you by Patriot Mobile (code GOA), with this season's guest gift provided by Palmetto State Armory and AAC Ammo, and a plug for GOALS in Knoxville, Tennessee, August 9th and 10th.

Questions this episode answers

What is the Vortex VIP warranty, and what does it actually cover?

The VIP warranty is a lifetime, unconditional, no-fault warranty that repairs or replaces a Vortex product no matter its condition or how the damage happened. Founders Dan and Margie Hamilton built it on a customer-first philosophy, and Mark stresses that unlike warranties that look good on paper, Vortex means it.

How should you choose between a hunting optic and a tactical optic for an AR?

Start with the application and fit the optic to what you actually do about 80% of the time, rather than assuming more magnification is always better. Mark breaks AR options into red dots, LPVOs, and higher-magnification scopes, each suited to a different use.

When does a red dot, an LPVO, or a higher-magnification scope make the most sense?

Mark frames the choice around how you use the gun: red dots, LPVOs, and higher-magnification scopes each fit a different application on an AR. The guiding rule is to match the optic to what you do 80% of the time instead of chasing maximum magnification.

Should you pick first or second focal plane, and Mils or MOA?

Mark covers the first versus second focal plane decision as part of choosing a scope, and takes a firm stance for Mils over MOA when he plans to dial.

How can someone who stopped hunting years ago get back into it?

Mark points to tools like onX Maps and public land access as ways for lapsed hunters to get back out, and notes that budget rifles and gear have gotten much better, lowering the barrier to return.

What is the best way to get the next generation interested in hunting?

Mark argues that sharing wild game with people who have never hunted is one of the most powerful ways to bring the next generation in, calling wild game meat as natural, sustainable, and organic as it gets.

How does Vortex decide what new product to develop?

Mark explains that customer engagement drives development. Repeated customer comments are what led Vortex to add green dots to the Defender series.

What was it like for Vortex to win the military contract for the XM157?

Mark describes the XM157 fire control win as a David versus Goliath story, a milestone in Vortex's military work that also put the brand on TV.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meeting Mark from Vortex
• 00:20 — Rapid fire: favorite product, Mils vs MOA, home defense
• 04:22 — Mark's journey from Washington to Cabela's to Vortex
• 07:10 — The bulletproof VIP warranty and why Vortex means it
• 08:28 — Wild warranty stories, from a house fire to a cliff
• 09:33 — Choosing an optic by application, not by max magnification
• 11:18 — Red dots, LPVOs, and AR optic selection
• 13:00 — Hunting culture and passing the baton to the next generation
• 16:05 — How a new Vortex product gets developed
• 17:53 — Customer engagement and the Defender green dots
• 22:05 — Sponsor break: Patriot Mobile
• 22:33 — From the soapbox: wild game and recruiting hunters
• 24:01 — Spicy optics: focal plane, Mils, and long range
• 26:48 — The military XM157 contract and Vortex on TV
• 31:03 — Second Amendment support, gift, and GOALS in Knoxville

About the guest

Mark works at Vortex Optics, where his primary focus is the company's podcast. He was born and raised in Washington State and went to school at WSU. He grew up in a hunting and fishing family. After college he worked outdoor retail jobs, including an Orvis store and a Seattle shop called Outdoor Emporium, before taking a copywriter position at Cabela's headquarters in Sidney, Nebraska, where he later moved into the marketing and brand management department doing media relations. He has been at Vortex for a little over 16 years, starting in roles spanning media planning, media buying, media relations, sponsorships, and copywriting. He lives in the suburbs of Wisconsin and describes his area of focus at Vortex as the hunting side.

Key quotes

"If you have the product, no matter its condition or how it happened, we will repair or replace it for the life of that product." — Mark

"there's a lot of great warranties out there on paper. And I'd say the difference was with ours as we mean it." — Mark

"look at what you're doing, how you're going to be using that optic, you know, 80% of the time and I'd cater your decision to that." — Mark

"wild game meat, it doesn't get more natural, sustainable and organic than that." — Mark

"It is not a, it's not a gray area for us or something to be compromised." — Mark

"Vortex is known for their optics, which is what they do, but you're also known for your bulletproof VIP warranty" — John

Most of the conversation is a practical look at building a gun channel and bringing new people into the space. Alyssa explains how she started with short cell phone clips, then pushed toward long form educational videos right after SHOT Show, and how the audience took time to follow. Tanner talks through their scripting process, how they check SEO and competition before committing to a topic, and why long form is a slow build with evergreen payoff. They cover the reality of being a woman in the space, finding a middle ground between the gun bunny and LEO/military lanes, and explaining terms in a way a newcomer can actually understand. Their advice for getting better: be safe first, handle the gun until it feels natural, treat it as a hobby and a sport rather than a tool that sits in a safe, and learn from good instructors like Rick at Ohio Range Day.

The Soapbox segment turns to the second amendment movement's weak spots. Alyssa and Tanner argue the community should lead with the fun, hobbyist side rather than politics or fear, and they tie that to international friends, including ones in Poland, who want rights they don't have. Kaylee frames rights as natural rights the Constitution protects rather than grants, and shares a story about an activist who immigrated from Australia after its gun buybacks. The pair close on censorship and YouTube demonetization, describing how nearly every video gets demonetized and appealed, and why gatekeeping firearms education leaves more people uneducated and against gun ownership.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

Who is GunnyGal and how did Alyssa Seymour's firearms YouTube channel start?

GunnyGal is firearms content creator Alyssa Seymour, who runs a YouTube channel covering competition, education, and concealed carry. She began with short cell phone clips and shifted toward long form educational videos right after SHOT Show.

How do firearms, cars, overlanding, and fitness overlap as a single lifestyle?

Alyssa and her husband Tanner frame guns as one part of a broader hobbyist lifestyle that connects to cars, overlanding, and fitness like CrossFit. Those crossover interests pull in people who would never call themselves gun people.

What is it like being a woman creating firearms content on YouTube?

Alyssa works to find a middle ground between the gun bunny and the LEO/military lanes, focusing on clear education instead of either stereotype. She aims to explain terms so a newcomer can understand a video without needing another source.

How do you transition from short form to long form video, and why does long form take so long to pay off?

Alyssa moved from short cell phone clips to long form educational videos after SHOT Show, and the audience took time to follow. Tanner describes long form as a slow build with evergreen payoff, so creators should not expect quick success.

How do Alyssa and Tanner pick video topics and use SEO before they film?

Their scripting process includes checking SEO and competition to find gaps before committing to a topic. Tanner still advises starting with something you are passionate about, regardless of how searchable it is.

What are the practical steps to getting better with firearms as a beginner?

Be safe first, then handle the gun until it feels natural, and treat it as a hobby and a sport rather than a tool that sits in a safe. Alyssa and Tanner also recommend learning from good instructors, like Rick at Ohio Range Day.

Where does the Second Amendment movement fall short when talking to people outside gun culture?

Alyssa and Tanner argue the community should lead with the fun, hobbyist side of guns rather than politics or fear. They point to international friends, including ones in Poland, who want rights they do not have.

How does YouTube demonetization and social media censorship affect firearms educators?

Alyssa and Tanner say nearly every video gets demonetized and then appealed, which penalizes creators for trying to educate. They argue that gatekeeping firearms education leaves more people uneducated and against gun ownership.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Intro and meeting GunnyGal and Tanner
• 00:26 — Rapid fire questions
• 04:01 — Who they are and what they do
• 05:58 — Firearms, cars, and fitness crossover
• 10:47 — Overlanding and the gun and car overlap
• 13:36 — Being a female firearms YouTuber
• 15:18 — Short form to long form transition
• 19:05 — Scripting videos, SEO, and finding gaps
• 25:18 — Practical advice for getting into firearms
• 32:50 — Soapbox: weak spots in the 2A movement
• 38:38 — International rights, Canada, and California
• 46:00 — Suppressors, the Hearing Protection Act, and censorship
• 49:23 — YouTube demonetization and the appeal fight
• 53:41 — Where to find them and closing

About the guest

Alyssa Seymour is a firearms content creator known online as GunnyGal. She runs a YouTube channel focused on firearms, competition, education, and concealed carry, and is also active on Instagram. She competes in both firearms and CrossFit, started in tactical games, and is moving into USPSA this year. Her husband Tanner is behind the camera and works in commercial and automotive content, including rally work, shooting in the firearm space for almost eight years, and work with brands such as Porsche AG. Neither of their families were gun people growing up; Tanner introduced Alyssa to firearms. Her YouTube is Alyssa Seymour and her Instagram is @thegunnygal.

Key quotes

"people like to feel strong and people like to feel like they can handle their own." — Alyssa Seymour (GunnyGal)

"you can't really expect success in long form quickly." — Tanner

"I want to be able to have people just watch my videos and be able to understand it without having to go to another video or source to find out what it means" — Alyssa Seymour (GunnyGal)

"start with something you're passionate about irregardless of searchability." — Tanner

"the moment you treat firearms with a passion and a hobbyist attitude, I think the more you touch them, the more you handle them, the more you have fun with them" — Tanner

"The Constitution is to protect those rights, not to grant those rights." — Kaylee

"the less you see of something, the more wrong it becomes." — Tanner

"YouTube demonizes you for trying to educate." — Tanner

The bigger pitch is about how you train. Because the targets are light and the Range Flex stand system is modular, Kurt says you can build a whole course of fire for about the cost of one full-size steel torso target. He paints targets different colors and assigns hit counts, offsets them at different heights and distances, and even makes shooters do math mid-string so they cannot just game a plate rack. Setups tear down fast and roll up to throw in a car, which makes a real home range or a competition-style stage easy for a family or a group of friends.

The soapbox turns to Second Amendment advocacy. Kurt agrees that politicians who advocate against the Second Amendment are violating their oath, but his sharper point is about how the gun community communicates. He argues that facts and figures alone do not move people who are scared, and that yelling "shall not be infringed" lands as nothing to someone who disagrees. The win is changing hearts and minds over the long game while GOA works the front lines in Washington. Kaylee ties it to GOA and GOF education work on college campuses and the Two A Adventure Chronicles, plus the on-ramp of taking a gun-curious person to the range for a safe, fun first experience. Kurt closes with the overlap he sees between the overland and firearms communities and a two-and-a-half-hour conversation with a California liberal that stayed respectful because it happened face to face. He offers code GOA15 for 15% off at tcrt.com and points listeners to GOALS in Knoxville.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

What makes TCRT's rubber targets different from other self-healing targets on the market?

TCRT spent about three years developing a proprietary rubber formulation made specifically for ballistics, rather than repurposing rubber from another use. The targets are also waterproof and UV resistant.

How many rounds can a TCRT target take, and what calibers has Kurt shot through them?

The targets are rated for roughly 400 rounds of 5.56 per square inch, and Kurt has seen them take 15,000 to 20,000 rounds and keep going. He has run everything from 9mm and .45 up to .308, and even put 50 BMG through them.

Do rubber targets hold up if you leave them outdoors all year?

Yes. TCRT's rubber is waterproof and UV resistant, and a setup held up after two years in the Arizona sun without dry rotting, so a full course can be left outdoors.

Why is a rubber target setup a better fit for a home range than steel?

The targets are light and the Range Flex stand system is modular, so for about the cost of one full-size steel torso target you can build a whole course of fire. Setups tear down fast and roll up to throw in a car.

How does Kurt use colors, hit counts, and target placement to make range time better training?

Kurt paints targets different colors and assigns hit counts, offsets them at different heights and distances, and makes shooters do math mid-string so they cannot just game a plate rack.

Are politicians who advocate against the Second Amendment violating their oath of office?

Kurt agrees that politicians who advocate against the Second Amendment (2A) are violating their oath, but his sharper point is that the gun community needs to change how it communicates rather than just calling out the oath.

Why doesn't throwing facts and figures at gun control advocates change their minds?

Kurt argues that facts and figures alone do not move people who are scared, and that yelling "shall not be infringed" lands as nothing to someone who disagrees. The real win is changing hearts and minds over the long game.

How big is the overlap between the overland community and the firearms community?

Kurt sees a heavy overlap between the overland and firearms communities, and points to a respectful two-and-a-half-hour conversation with a California liberal that stayed civil because it happened face to face.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Kurt from TCRT
• 00:13 — Rapid fire questions
• 02:54 — Johnny B and Kurt's first range day
• 04:58 — What does TCRT stand for?
• 05:50 — Kurt's background and standing up TCRT
• 07:11 — The product: self-healing rubber targets
• 10:24 — T. Rex and Optimus Prime pronouns
• 12:07 — Building a home range and a course of fire
• 15:45 — Leaving targets outdoors: waterproof and UV resistant
• 17:18 — From the soapbox: oath of office and the 2A
• 21:52 — Changing hearts and minds over the long game
• 24:27 — Education, GOF, and the on-ramp to gun ownership
• 34:25 — Content creation and the overland crossover
• 38:50 — Where to find TCRT, GOA15 code, and GOALS

About the guest

Kurt is from TCRT Targets, which makes self-healing rubber targets. He has worked in the firearms industry since about 2016 and is the director of marketing for Faxon and a couple of other companies in the firearm space. He started with TCRT in 2023 to stand up a consumer product line in the U.S. and helped with R&D on it. Before that, TCRT had worked largely in the military and law enforcement space on contracts.

Key quotes

"What makes TCRT stand out is that we spent about three years kind of working on a proprietary rubber formulation made specifically for ballistics." — Kurt

"for the cost of like one steel kind of full size torso target, you can get kind of a whole course of fire." — Kurt

"We just disagree on how to solve the problem." — Kurt

"the overlap between the firearms community and the overland community is honestly probably close to about 90%." — Kurt

"If you can take somebody who is anti gun and make them gun curious and take them to the range and show them a fun, safe time and then you turn them into a gun owner, then we can start talking about how to make them into a gun advocate." — Kaylee

Most of the episode digs into why gunsmiths are getting harder to find and what that means for the industry. Jared explains that the old path into the trade, picking up mechanical skills through shop class, farm machinery, or working on cars, has thinned out as schools dropped shop and home ec. Many students now arrive wanting to build a gun they saw in a video game, with no base hands-on skills. At the same time, veteran gunsmiths are passing away, and the next generation hasn't fully stepped in. SDI's answer is online education that ships a lab to the student's living room so the hands-on work still happens. Jared and the hosts also walk through the rise of faceless, factory-driven design, the loss of named gunsmith legends like P.O. Ackley and Elmer Keith, and why people are starting to crave bespoke, personal work again.

Jared makes the case that gunsmithing teaches transferable skills, woodworking, welding, machining, metal finishing, that lead graduates into many industries, and that the trades broadly are short on people, the same way it's hard to find a plumber right now. He frames education as a baseline plus continuous learning, not a finish line at graduation. On the policy side, he notes SDI operates in roughly 46 states, sometimes blocked by firearms law and sometimes by education law, and praises states like Arkansas for putting firearms education back into public schools. The episode closes with where to find SDI (SDI.edu and social), a guest gift from Palmetto State Armory and AAC Ammo, and a reminder about the GOALS summit in Knoxville, Tennessee on August 9th and 10th.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

What is the Sonoran Desert Institute (SDI) and how does it teach a hands-on trade like gunsmithing online?

Sonoran Desert Institute is an online college that teaches gunsmithing along with uncrewed technology like drone piloting and fleet administration. It keeps the trade hands-on by shipping a physical lab to the student so the practical work still happens at home.

Why are gunsmiths getting harder to find, and what has happened to the traditional path into the trade?

The old on-ramp of building mechanical skills through shop class, farm machinery, or working on cars has thinned out as schools dropped shop and home economics. At the same time veteran gunsmiths are passing away and the next generation has not fully stepped in, so many students now arrive with no base hands-on skills.

How does SDI handle the lab side of gunsmithing if students are learning from home?

SDI sends a lab kit to each student so the hands-on portion of gunsmithing happens in their own living room. As Jared puts it, the school can place both the classroom and the lab where the student already is.

What skills does gunsmithing teach that carry over into other industries and careers?

Gunsmithing builds transferable trade skills like woodworking, welding, machining, and metal finishing that lead graduates into many industries. Jared frames the trades broadly as short on people, the same way it is hard to find a plumber right now.

Why have the big-name gunsmith designers largely disappeared from the industry?

The industry has shifted toward faceless, factory-driven design, and named gunsmith legends like P.O. Ackley and Elmer Keith have passed without clear successors. Jared and the hosts note that demand for bespoke, personal work is starting to return as a result.

How do state and federal rules affect where an online gunsmithing school can operate?

SDI operates in roughly 46 states, sometimes blocked by firearms law and sometimes by education law. Jared praises states like Arkansas for putting firearms education back into public schools.

Can the average gun owner customize and personalize their firearm, or is that only for experts?

Many first-time owners do not realize a firearm can be customized and made their own, which is part of why demand for bespoke work is growing. The episode frames customization and personal work as increasingly accessible rather than reserved for specialists.

What does Jared carry every day, and why does one of his firearms have sentimental value?

His everyday carry is a Smith & Wesson Shield or a Smith & Wesson airweight revolver. The Shield is engraved and tied to his old school, which gives it personal meaning.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Jared from SDI
• 00:19 — Rapid fire: EDC, impulse buys, 3D printing
• 02:32 — Last build: a weekend on his own AR-10
• 03:09 — Why the AR-10 isn't standardized
• 05:06 — Working on old guns and off-brand designs
• 06:36 — Sears, J.C. Higgins, and slam-fire shotguns
• 11:36 — What SDI is: putting the classroom and lab at home
• 13:35 — The future of gunsmiths and the training gap
• 18:55 — Veterans and career-changers into the trade
• 21:05 — Losing the named gunsmith legends
• 26:01 — Bespoke work, customization, and accessibility
• 30:22 — From the Soapbox: training and state education law
• 37:50 — Trades opportunity and learning as a baseline
• 48:02 — Where to find SDI and show close

About the guest

Jared is the chief academic officer at Sonoran Desert Institute (SDI), an online college that teaches gunsmithing and uncrewed technology such as drone piloting and fleet administration. He came to SDI about four years ago, and before that worked with an on-ground school in Colorado in the gunsmithing space. Earlier in his career he worked in the watch and jewelry industry. He is former military and holds multiple degrees. His everyday carry is a Smith & Wesson Shield, engraved and tied to his old school, or a Smith & Wesson airweight revolver. His daughter raises chickens for 4-H.

Key quotes

"education is going away from four walls." — Jared

"I can put the classroom in their living room." — Jared

"we actually send kids out to our students and put the lab in their living room as well." — Jared

"what we now see is students that played a video game and they want to build the gun from the video game." — Jared

"It's hard to find a gunsmith right now, you know, because we just as a country haven't focused on those jobs." — Jared

"the idea with any educational environment is to give you a baseline to start with and then get you out in the world doing it." — Jared

"a lot of first time gun owners might not even be aware that you can customize something, that you can make something your own." — Kaylee

The conversation digs into why dry fire with feedback matters. Grant compares it to the jump from film photography to digital: you can now see what you did wrong and fix the root of the problem instead of compensating for it. He's clear that Mantis does not replace live fire or simunitions, and he encourages people to train with a qualified instructor. The tools save ammo and range time and let shooters work on fundamentals like grip, sight picture, and trigger press before they ever load a round. He covers what's coming next, including augmented reality that scans up to 10,000 square feet of a space and drops in targets, heart-rate monitors, shock pads, and a physical device for round count that would open up mag changes and more dynamic drills.

The back half turns personal and political. Grant is originally from Regina, Saskatchewan, and is now an American citizen. He talks about Canada banning AR-style rifles using an event where, he says, no ARs were used and none of the firearms involved were legally obtained. That experience is a big part of why he supports the Second Amendment. He and the hosts discuss the leaderboards and community Mantis builds, float the idea of a GOA group, and talk about how working in the firearms industry can get you treated differently or quietly pushed out of other fields. Grant left the high-end spa business at the peak of his career to chase work he loves, and his advice to anyone weighing a similar leap is simple: it's scary, but it's worth it. The episode wraps with details on finding Mantis at GOALS, booth 900.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

What does Mantis do, and what is its core training philosophy?

Mantis is a firearms training company that uses technology to help shooters improve their marksmanship and gun handling. It assesses your trigger press, tells you what you're doing wrong, and shows you how to fix it, with safety first and effectiveness second.

How does the Mantis Blackbeard work, and what's the advantage of swapping in your own bolt carrier group?

The Blackbeard is an X10 that drops into your AR in place of the bolt carrier group and charging handle, so your own rifle becomes the training tool. It resets your trigger, sends a laser downrange, and gives feedback on your trigger press.

Does dry-fire training with Mantis replace live fire or simunitions?

No. Grant is clear that Mantis does not replace live fire or simunitions and encourages training with a qualified instructor. The tools save ammo and range time by letting shooters work on grip, sight picture, and trigger press before loading a round.

What is Mantis building next, beyond augmented reality, like round count and dynamic drills?

Grant describes a physical round-count device that would open up mag changes and more dynamic drills, plus heart-rate monitors and shock pads. The augmented reality system scans up to 10,000 square feet of a space and drops in targets.

Why did Grant leave the high-end spa industry to join the firearms space?

Grant left the high-end spa business at the peak of his career to chase work he loves. His advice to anyone weighing a similar leap is that it's scary, but it's worth it.

How did Canada's firearms laws shape Grant's view of the Second Amendment?

Grant, originally from Regina, Saskatchewan and now an American citizen, points to Canada banning AR-style rifles over an event where, he says, no ARs were used and none of the firearms involved were legally obtained. That experience is a big part of why he supports the Second Amendment.

How do Mantis leaderboards help build training and community?

Mantis builds leaderboards and community around its training, and Grant and the hosts float the idea of a Gun Owners of America group. The whole goal is to motivate people to practice.

Where can you find Mantis at GOALS?

Grant points listeners to Mantis at the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS), booth 900.

Chapters

• 00:13 — Rapid fire questions with Grant
• 02:26 — What Mantis is and how Grant joined
• 05:24 — The Blackbeard for your AR
• 06:55 — Safety advantages over regular dry fire
• 09:24 — The dedicated training gun demo
• 12:12 — Designed for every level of shooter
• 13:43 — Saving range time and money
• 17:10 — What's next: augmented reality
• 23:14 — Round count and dynamic training
• 26:34 — Leaderboards and building community
• 30:53 — Soapbox: train more, polish less
• 33:45 — Canada, gun bans, and the Second Amendment
• 40:34 — Getting blackballed and taking the leap
• 45:34 — Find Mantis at GOALS booth 900

About the guest

Grant works for Mantis, a firearms training company that uses technology to help people train and improve their marksmanship and gun handling. He was a Mantis customer before he joined the company. He came from running very high-end spas and was at the pinnacle of that career before switching industries. He is originally from Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada, and is now an American citizen. He is left-handed and has an 11-year-old daughter. His company role/title was not stated in this episode [VERIFY].

Key quotes

"Mantis is a firearms training company and it's at its core we just use technology to help people train to get better." — Grant

"So safety first and effectiveness second, I guess would be our thing." — Grant

"We do not replace that, nor do we replace live fire. We encourage people to do both, but we don't want you to waste your time either." — Grant

"We want to get to the root of the problem, fix it and help you succeed." — Grant

"It is one of the greatest training tools I've ever played with." — John

"It's scary, but it's worth it. It's just that simple." — Grant

"Our whole goal is to help people practice, to motivate people to practice." — Grant

The heart of the episode is Tracy's advice for women getting into the shooting sports. Her two biggest points: don't be intimidated by people who tell you things have to be done a certain way, and don't believe anyone who says your first gun needs to be tiny. At Annie Oakley events and National Women's Range Day she handed women a bigger gun first and then a smaller one, and they consistently shot a Glock 19 or a P320 better than a subcompact like a P365, a 43X, or a Hellcat. A small gun has more recoil and is one of the hardest things a new shooter can start on. Tracy and Kaylee also push the value of women-only range days, finding good mentors, getting real training, and the point that a guy usually can't teach his own wife or girlfriend to shoot.

The second half gets into culture and carry. Tracy talks about firearms censorship on social media, the workarounds gun creators used to dodge the algorithm, and how George Floyd and the climate in 2020 and 2021 shifted public tolerance toward firearms and self-protection. She closes with a CVS confrontation that became a lesson in concealed-carry responsibility: as a CCW holder she has to keep her cool, stay aware, and never escalate, because carrying a firearm raises the stakes on every situation. John reinforces that this mindset is what younger carriers need to learn. Tracy points listeners to Tracy Guns across platforms and to the Clapper app, and the show wraps with a plug for GOALS in Knoxville, August 9th and 10th.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

How did Tracy Lee get into firearms and the gun industry?

Tracy Lee grew up in Texas and Sacramento, ran a business sending photographers to nightclubs, and traveled the world with the UFC as a cage-side photographer. She built a relationship with a Las Vegas gun store, took her first firearms and CCW class in 2015, got hooked on real training, and is now coming up on 10 years in the space.

What advice does Tracy Lee have for women starting in the shooting sports?

Tracy says don't be intimidated by people who insist things have to be done a certain way, and don't believe anyone who tells you your first gun needs to be tiny. She also points to women-only range days, finding a good mentor, and getting real training as the fastest way to build real skill.

Why does Tracy Lee say a new shooter's first gun should not be a tiny one?

A small gun has more recoil and is one of the hardest things a new shooter can start on. At women's events Tracy handed shooters a bigger gun first, and they consistently shot a Glock 19 or a P320 better than a subcompact like a P365, a 43X, or a Hellcat.

Why do women-only range days matter, and why can't a guy usually teach his own wife or girlfriend to shoot?

Tracy and co-host Kaylee push women-only range days, such as National Women's Range Day, as a lower-pressure place to learn from good mentors and get real training. Tracy's blunt take is that a man usually can't teach his own wife or girlfriend to shoot, so an outside instructor works better.

How has firearms content been censored on social media, and what changed?

Tracy describes ongoing firearms censorship on social platforms and the workarounds gun creators used to dodge the algorithm. She ties a shift in public tolerance toward firearms and self-protection to the climate of 2020 and 2021.

What role did George Floyd and the events of 2020 and 2021 play in shifting attitudes toward guns?

Tracy says George Floyd and the broader climate of 2020 and 2021 moved public tolerance toward firearms and self-protection, drawing more people, including women, toward owning and carrying.

What responsibility comes with being a concealed carry holder day to day?

Tracy recounts a CVS confrontation as a lesson in concealed-carry responsibility: a CCW holder has to keep their cool, stay aware, and never escalate, because carrying a firearm raises the stakes on every situation. Co-host John reinforces that this mindset is what younger carriers most need to learn.

Where can people follow Tracy Lee and meet her in person?

Tracy points listeners to Tracy Guns across Instagram, X, Facebook, and TikTok, as well as the Clapper app. The episode also plugs the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) in Knoxville on August 9th and 10th.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Tracy Lee
• 00:28 — Rapid fire questions
• 05:07 — Tracy's backstory: nightclubs, UFC, and guns
• 08:34 — American Air Gunner Challenge and competition
• 13:15 — Shooting on public BLM land and cleaning up
• 17:39 — Advice for women getting into shooting
• 19:18 — Why your first gun shouldn't be tiny
• 20:52 — Breaking in as a female influencer
• 27:34 — National Women's Range Day and women-only events
• 35:51 — Soapbox: social media censorship of guns
• 43:00 — Culture, COVID, George Floyd, and the shift
• 46:28 — Vegas, guns, and carry at SHOT Show hotels
• 54:51 — The CVS confrontation and CCW responsibility
• 1:00:48 — Where to find Tracy and GOALS wrap-up

About the guest

Tracy Lee, known online as Tracy Guns, is a firearms content creator and shooter based in Las Vegas, Nevada. She grew up in Texas until she was 8 and then in Sacramento, ran a business sending photographers to nightclubs, and traveled the world with the UFC as a cage-side photographer. She took her first firearms and CCW class in 2015 and is coming up on 10 years actively involved in firearms, shooting, and training. She competes in rifle and AK matches, has run full-auto ranges at women's events including National Women's Range Day, and appeared on the TV show American Air Gunner Challenge. She carries a P365 as her EDC and is active on Instagram, X, Facebook, TikTok, and the Clapper app.

Key quotes

"Just don't be intimidated by people out there that tell you that things need to be done a certain way." — Tracy Lee

"I also don't believe one of the biggest things that I teach is don't believe someone that tells you that your first gun needs to be tiny." — Tracy Lee

"It's just that they need to learn to shoot and learn what they like before they dive into something smaller." — Tracy Lee

"If you want to be taken seriously in this industry, it's not a matter of, you know, just posing with a gun." — Tracy Lee

"The best way to get into the industry is find a mentor and then, you know, really build those relationships, because the firearm industry is large and tiny all at the same time." — Kaylee

"I tell guys all the time, you can't teach your wife, you can't teach your girlfriend." — Tracy Lee

"I am not going to flare up and get angry like that girl got, you know, and that's because I know I have a firearm on me." — Tracy Lee

Alexander breaks down the engineering and the philosophy behind it. The design takes a retention belt, turns it inside out, ties it to the apparel, and runs it all the way around the body so the load distributes and nothing shifts. He demonstrates the concept in his own content by carrying two Desert Eagles, roughly 11 pounds loaded. He also explains why his hoodies use pass-through pockets so a carrier can pre-stage a draw and speed up a first shot. His through line is that one of a brand's biggest competitors is inaction. If carrying is a hassle, the gun gets left at home, and a gun at home is no good.

The conversation widens into hot takes and advocacy. Alexander argues that men carrying in crossbody bags may as well open carry because the look gives them away. Kailey counters that there is still nothing maternity-friendly in the gun space, calling it a million-dollar opening. The episode closes on GOA's mission. With Tennessee's Gold Day happening that day, Kailey makes the case that voting once is not enough. Show up for primaries and midterms, call your representatives, and keep the momentum going. She notes it takes about 30 seconds to send a message to your congressman through GOA's website. Alexander points listeners to arrowheadtacticalapparel.com.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

What problem led Alexander to start Arrowhead Tactical?

Training at odd hours in Atlanta, Alexander wanted to carry during workouts, but elastic waistbands and drawstrings could not hold a gun and the belly bands and belts he tried did not perform. He saw concealed-carry athletic apparel for men as an open market and launched Arrowhead Tactical in April 2020.

How does Arrowhead's twice-patented waistband hold a firearm without sagging?

The design takes a retention belt, turns it inside out, ties it to the apparel, and runs it all the way around the body so the load is distributed and nothing shifts. Alexander demonstrates the concept by carrying two Desert Eagles, roughly 11 pounds loaded.

What was Arrowhead's first product and how small was the first production run?

Arrowhead launched with the Carrier Joggers in April 2020, offered in three colors. The first production run was fewer than 500 units.

Why does Alexander say men who carry in crossbody bags may as well open carry?

He argues the crossbody bag is a giveaway, so the look telegraphs that the person is carrying. In his view that defeats the point of concealment, making it no different from open carry.

What gap still exists for women in the concealed-carry apparel market?

Host Kailey points out there is still nothing maternity-friendly in the gun space, calling it a million-dollar opening. Arrowhead has a women's line that it is currently retooling.

How do the pass-through pockets on Arrowhead hoodies help with a draw?

The pass-through pockets let a carrier pre-stage the draw with the hand already on the firearm. That setup speeds up the first shot.

What was Alexander's path into firearms and what were his first guns?

Alexander's first gun was a Colt LE6920 AR-15 that his mother bought in 2009. His everyday carry today is a Glock 19.

Why is voting in the presidential election alone not enough for gun owners?

Host Kailey argues that casting a ballot once and checking out is not enough; gun owners should show up for primaries and midterms and call their representatives. She notes it takes about 30 seconds to message your congressman through Gun Owners of America's website.

Chapters

• 00:12 — Rapid fire questions
• 01:51 — Sponsor: Ammo Squared
• 02:46 — Getting mentioned on Joe Rogan
• 04:58 — The problem behind the brand
• 07:14 — Moving the business to Nashville
• 09:02 — From joggers to a full product line
• 11:38 — Engineering the waistband for weight
• 14:15 — Inaction is the real competitor
• 15:49 — Knowing the demographic
• 18:00 — Hot take: crossbody carry
• 24:53 — Gun owners as hoarders
• 27:43 — Where the women's market stands
• 31:38 — Alexander's gun journey
• 37:12 — Tennessee, the NFA, and advocacy
• 45:01 — Where to find Arrowhead

About the guest

Alexander is the founder of Arrowhead Tactical, which makes athletic apparel for safe and secure concealed carry of firearms. He grew up in Memphis, attended Vanderbilt where he met his wife, and lived in Atlanta for about four years before moving to Nashville. He launched Arrowhead in April 2020 with the Carrier Joggers, a first run of fewer than 500 units in three colors, and the brand is approaching five years. Arrowhead is built around a twice-patented waistband and was mentioned on the Joe Rogan show. Alexander's first gun was a Colt LE6920 AR-15 his mother bought in 2009, and his everyday carry is a Glock 19.

Key quotes

"Arrowhead makes predominantly athletic apparel for safe and secure concealed carry of firearms." — Alexander

"I saw it as a blue ocean." — Alexander

"the gun sitting at home is a gun that's no good." — John

"We took the tried and true concept of a retention belt, turned it inside out, moved it to the inside of the waistband, and maintained that connection between belt and apparel." — Alexander

"You don't have to mold your lifestyle around concealed carry." — Alexander

"There is absolutely nothing that is maternity friendly in the gun space right now." — Kailey

"it's not enough to just go cast, go cast your ballot and then check out." — Kailey

The heart of the episode is the WD-40 warning. Bill explains that WD stands for water displacement, the product was built around the 50s or late 40s to push water out of a mechanical part, and a gun should not have water in it to begin with. Because the viscosity is so low, it migrates everywhere. John backs it up with a story about a Columbus police officer who sprayed his service revolver with WD-40 every day with the ammunition still loaded. When the officer got into a shooting, he pulled the trigger six times and every round failed because the WD-40 had soaked into the ammunition and made the propellant inert. Bill and John also cover real maintenance habits: more lubricant is not better since excess turns to mud and can cause malfunctions, EDC guns should be cleaned every couple of months and more often in humid summer heat to fight rust, and magazine springs should not be compressed for too long so feeding stays reliable.

Bill also covers Otis kits for new owners, noting roughly 20 million new shooters have entered the space since 2019, and details three new products launched at SHOT Show: a suppressor cleaning concentrate, a muzzleloading kit, and an air gun cleaning kit. As a firearms instructor in New York, he closes on the post-Bruin legal landscape, the state's 16-hour CCW classroom requirement, and the three topics he considers most important to teach: de-escalation, situational awareness, and suicide prevention, the last tied to about 1,700 lives lost to suicide a year in New York. The episode wraps with Otis returning to GOA's GOALS event in Knoxville, Tennessee on August 9th and 10th.

Questions this episode answers

Why is WD-40 a bad choice for cleaning or lubricating a gun?

WD stands for water displacement, a product built in the late 1940s or 1950s to push water out of mechanical parts, and a gun should not have water in it to begin with. Its viscosity is so low that it migrates everywhere it shouldn't, including into places that cause problems.

What actually happens to ammunition when WD-40 soaks into it?

The low-viscosity WD-40 seeps into the cartridge and renders the propellant inert. A Columbus police officer who sprayed his loaded service revolver daily had all six rounds fail to fire during a shooting because the propellant had been deadened.

How often should you clean an everyday carry gun?

An EDC gun should be cleaned every couple of months, and more often during humid summer heat to fight rust. The goal is to keep it working, not to let it become a safe queen that never comes out.

Can you use too much lubricant on a firearm?

Yes. More lubricant is not better, because excess turns to mud and can cause malfunctions. A light, correct amount keeps the gun running reliably.

What is the story behind how Otis Technology was founded?

Otis began in 1985 after Doreen Williams got her rifle muzzle stuck in the mud while hunting with her dad and went looking through her grandpa's World War II kit for a way to clean it. It grew from a kitchen table to a garage into four decades of family-reinvested business, now in its 40th year.

What three new products did Otis launch at SHOT Show?

Otis introduced a suppressor cleaning concentrate, a muzzleloading kit, and an air gun cleaning kit. They were announced alongside CEO Bill's broader update on the company's lineup for new and existing shooters.

What does Otis teach as the most important parts of a CCW class?

As a firearms instructor in New York, Bill teaches three topics as most important: de-escalation, situational awareness, and suicide prevention. The suicide focus is tied to roughly 1,700 lives lost to suicide a year in New York.

Why should you avoid compressing your magazine springs for too long?

Magazine springs should not stay compressed for extended periods so that feeding stays reliable. Leaving them under load too long can work against consistent function.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and introducing Bill from Otis
• 00:35 — Rapid fire: favorite cleaning tool, the Ripcord
• 01:32 — Content creators and bucket list gun
• 02:54 — Life as a gun owner in New York after Bruin
• 06:31 — Who is Otis: 40 years and the 1985 founding
• 08:28 — What kept Otis going for 40 years
• 11:02 — Kits and advice for first-time gun owners
• 15:07 — Are the products safe on finishes and corrosive propellants
• 16:37 — What makes a good lubricant, and CLP explained
• 20:08 — EDC habits, lint, and carry storage advice
• 21:37 — The WD-40 myth and the failed revolver story
• 24:02 — From the Soapbox: three new SHOT Show products
• 28:25 — How often you really should clean your guns
• 30:42 — CCW myths, use of force, and New York law
• 36:38 — Where to find Otis and GOALS in Knoxville

About the guest

Bill is the CEO of Otis Technology, a position he has held for about the last three years. Otis is celebrating its 40th year, having started in 1985 when Doreen Williams looked for a way to clean a muzzle that got stuck in the mud while hunting with her dad. Bill is also a competitive shooter and a firearms instructor who teaches CCW classes in New York State. His surname is given in the episode as Cleftis [VERIFY].

Key quotes

"That's what WD stands for is water displacement." — Bill

"And the WD40 had soaked into the ammunition and made the propellant inert." — John

"first thing I would say that if some lubricant is good, more is not better." — Bill

"We're celebrating our 40th year this year. And it all started in 1985." — Bill

"the last thing you want to do is have your EDC be a safe queen where it's just sitting in the safe and never comes out." — Bill

"we've been supplying the US military almost exclusively for the last 30 years." — Bill

The conversation widens into the right to build and the right to repair. Brownell traces gunsmithing back to before the Constitution and argues the Obama and Biden administrations clamped down on FFLs with zero-tolerance enforcement, thinning out the local gun shops that anchor gun culture in a community. He says 54% of firearm transactions still come through a mom and pop shop, and that the ATF is now inviting those FFLs back. He makes a case for the trades over a default college path, points to gunsmithing trade schools and youth programs like Eddie Eagle, scholastic shooting, hunter safety, and ROTC, and argues firearm education has to start young because abstinence-style 'don't touch' messaging does not work.

On policy, Brownell is direct that firearms leaders cannot sit out politics, and that customers punish companies that quietly work against the Second Amendment. He breaks down the HPA moving to the Senate and his read that removing suppressors from the NFA has the votes while the SHORT Act is a tougher lift for reconciliation. He predicts a summer slowdown ahead of a 90-day enactment window, then a demand spike, a suppressor scarcity, and eventually falling prices as production ramps, possibly into the $100 to $200 range. He and Kaylee also cover state-level wins like PLCA protection in Tennessee, constitutional carry crossing 50% of states, the California Glock-switch fight, and GOA's mission to protect, defend, and restore. Brownell closes on Brownells returning as GOALS title sponsor and urges listeners to get involved in their local 2A community.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

How has the firearms market shifted from the pandemic buying era to today?

During the pandemic, owners stocked up on AR-15s and pistols out of scarcity. Now, Pete Brownell says, those buyers are pulling guns back out of the safe and customizing them, which is why Brownells is leaning into build recipes and a deeper gunsmithing line.

Why does Pete Brownell call the AR-15 the Jeep of the firearms industry?

He sees the AR-15 as an open platform people make their own, the same way Jeep owners modify their vehicles. He adds that Sig has opened up its platform enough to sit right behind Glock for aftermarket support.

What advice does Pete Brownell give new gun companies about aftermarket and repair parts?

He argues a company should open its platform to aftermarket and repair support, pointing to how Glock and now Sig built deep accessory ecosystems that owners can customize and maintain themselves.

What are the right to build and the right to repair, and why do they matter for local gun shops?

Brownell traces gunsmithing to before the Constitution and frames building and repairing your own firearm as a long-standing right. He says zero-tolerance enforcement thinned out the local FFLs that anchor gun culture, though 54% of firearm sales still run through a mom-and-pop shop.

How can the industry bring back more gunsmiths and the hometown gun shop?

He points to gunsmithing trade schools and making the trades a real alternative to a default college path. He also notes the ATF is now inviting FFLs back, which he sees as a path to rebuilding the local shops that support gun culture.

Should firearms companies stay out of politics, and what happens when they push against the Second Amendment?

Brownell is direct that firearms leaders cannot sit out politics. He says customers punish companies that quietly work against the Second Amendment, and that customer pressure is the strongest force on how a company behaves.

What does Pete Brownell expect removing suppressors from the NFA to do to the market and to prices?

He reads the votes as there to remove suppressors from the National Firearms Act, with the SHORT Act a tougher lift. He predicts a summer slowdown, then a demand spike and suppressor scarcity after a 90-day enactment window, with prices eventually falling toward the $100 to $200 range as production ramps.

Why is state-level work like PLCA protection and constitutional carry so important for the industry?

Brownell highlights wins like PLCA protection in Tennessee and constitutional carry crossing half the states as proof the fight is being won locally. He ties this to Gun Owners of America's mission to protect, defend, and restore the Second Amendment, and urges listeners to get involved in their local 2A community.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and intro with Pete Brownell
• 00:18 — Rapid fire: rarest guns and impulse buys
• 02:55 — Getting new gun owners into the movement
• 05:21 — What's new at Brownells: the shift to builds
• 08:50 — Accessorizing Glock, AR, Sig and 1911
• 10:00 — Advice to gun companies on aftermarket support
• 12:15 — The next homebrew build and standardization
• 15:54 — Right to build and right to repair
• 20:42 — Reviving gunsmiths and the local gun shop
• 25:25 — Youth education: Eddie Eagle, shooting sports, ROTC
• 27:32 — Soapbox: why companies can't sit out politics
• 31:53 — State-level wins: PLCA and constitutional carry
• 35:38 — HPA, suppressors and the SHORT Act
• 45:02 — California Glock fight and red herring attacks
• 51:53 — GOALS title sponsorship and closing

About the guest

Pete Brownell is from Brownells, the firearms parts, tools, and accessories company, which he says has been in business 85 years and talking about building community for 66 years. He is a past president of the NRA, a role he references during the episode, and says he has been working in the Second Amendment fight for 30 years. He inherited a miniature Mauser from his father and is an avid mountain biker.

Key quotes

"AR15s are the Jeep of the firearms industry." — Pete Brownell

"My grandpa used to say back in the 30s, show me a town without a gunsmith, I'll show you a town without guns." — Pete Brownell

"If you are in a leadership role in the firearms related company and you're not in politics, you won't be in a leadership role for long." — Pete Brownell

"There is no stronger motivation than your customers telling you what's right or wrong as a company." — Pete Brownell

"And I would encourage everybody to learn how to build a firearm." — Pete Brownell

Most of the show dismantles magazine myths and explains why the magazine is so often an afterthought in gun design. Eddie says the old advice to never leave mags loaded no longer holds for magazines made in roughly the last decade, because wear comes from cycling, not from sitting loaded. He walks through ETS testing, including laser scanners that measure every critical dimension so a bad batch can be tracked, quarantined, and kept off the market. He says there are probably about eight true magazine engineers in America, calls tuning a magazine a "dark art," and points to the industry trend toward standardizing on AR, Glock, and CZ pattern mags. Kaylee and Eddie also push first-time owners to get training and go shoot, since both hosts note how overwhelming and expensive the first purchase can be.

The Soapbox segment turns to the episode's title question: why traveling armed in America is so complicated. Eddie describes routing a trip through Memphis to add an hour to his drive just so he could legally carry his gun and the rounds he wanted to use. John recounts driving a U-Haul full of guns through Illinois and being "butt puckered" the whole way, then learning later that some restrictions only applied to residents. Kaylee argues the pro-gun side keeps losing "the battle of language" by adopting terms like "high capacity magazine" and "red flag law," which she calls a gun confiscation order. They cover the push for national reciprocity, the absurdity of state rosters that reject a gun over a screw type or the color of a chamber flag, and the way restrictive places like D.C. normalize what they call tyranny. The episode closes with ETS contact info and a plug for GOALS in Knoxville, Tennessee on August 9th and 10th.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

Why did Eddie leave large firearms companies like Remington and Crimson Trace to work at a small company like ETS?

Eddie's view is that big ships turn slow, so the large companies he came from move at a crawl. A small company like Elite Tactical Systems stays agile and can develop a brand new magazine for a gun like the Echelon in the time a large company spends just on paperwork.

Do you really need to avoid leaving your magazines loaded, and how often should you change them out?

Eddie says the old advice to never leave magazines loaded no longer holds for mags made in roughly the last decade. Spring wear comes from cycling the magazine, not from sitting loaded, so leaving a modern mag loaded is fine.

Why is the magazine so often treated as an afterthought when a new gun is designed?

Tuning a magazine is what Eddie calls a dark art, and he estimates there are only about eight true magazine engineers in America. Many designers build the gun first and treat the mag as an afterthought, though the better approach is to build the gun around a mag that already works.

How does ETS test its magazines for quality?

ETS uses laser scanners that measure every critical dimension of a magazine. That lets the company track a bad batch, quarantine it, and keep it off the market.

What makes traveling across state lines with a firearm so complicated, and what hoops did Eddie and John have to jump through?

Patchwork state laws force gun owners into detours and uncertainty. Eddie routed a trip through Memphis to add an hour to his drive just to legally carry the gun and rounds he wanted, and John drove a U-Haul of guns through Illinois on edge the whole way before learning some restrictions only applied to residents.

What is national reciprocity and how would it change things for gun owners?

National reciprocity is the push to have a carry permit recognized across state lines, the way a driver's license is. Eddie argues it is disingenuous to hold a Second Amendment right and then have to figure out which inalienable rights you can exercise in each state you travel through.

How far do state rosters like California's go in rejecting firearms over small differences?

Eddie and the hosts call the rosters absurd, with states rejecting a gun over something as minor as a screw type or the color of a chamber flag. The episode frames this color-compliance gatekeeping as a way restrictive places normalize what they describe as tyranny.

Why does Kaylee say gun owners keep losing the language fight?

Kaylee argues the pro-gun side loses the battle of language by adopting the other side's terms, such as high capacity magazine and red flag law. She points out that a red flag law is really a gun confiscation order, and that caving to that wording cedes ground.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and rapid fire questions
• 05:23 — Ammo Squared sponsor break
• 06:15 — What ETS is and why Eddie joined
• 07:52 — How ETS got into translucent magazines
• 09:43 — Speed loaders, the number one seller
• 12:13 — The Omega hybrid mag and testing process
• 15:20 — Magazine myths: loaded mags and wear
• 19:00 — Why the magazine is the afterthought
• 24:49 — How many mags should a gun come with
• 26:00 — First time gun owners and training
• 36:20 — Soapbox: magazine bans and the language fight
• 41:38 — Traveling armed across state lines
• 50:21 — National reciprocity and Freedom Week
• 52:36 — State rosters and color compliance absurdity
• 1:00:18 — Wrap up, ETS links, and GOALS

About the guest

Eddie works at Elite Tactical Systems (ETS), where he has been for three years. He has worked in the firearms industry for about 20 years and previously worked at Remington, AOB, Timney, and Crimson Trace, where he was a product manager. He learned to shoot from his mother, who he says owns more than 300 guns. ETS is known for translucent polymer magazines, speed loaders, and the Omega hybrid metal-and-polymer magazine.

Key quotes

"The big saying that we had at the big companies was big ships turn slow." — Eddie

"It's a dark art tuning a magazine and getting a magazine to work properly." — Eddie

"People found that if you make a mag that works, build the gun around the mag." — Eddie

"A red flag law is a gun confiscation order, but we let them rebrand and repackage everything and then we cave and we use their language." — Kaylee

"I think it's incredibly disingenuous for us to have the Second Amendment and then have to figure out which of our inalienable rights we're allowed to execute in any state we travel through." — Eddie

The central question the episode keeps circling is whether you can sell a magazine for half the price of a Glock mag and still have people believe it works. The answer KCI gives is to put their money where their mouth is: hand skeptics a mag at shows, tell them to run it hard, and let the public decide. Keebler shares an honest line on trust. He would trust his life to a KCI mag for training and video work, but his daily carry stays on a Glock, mostly because Glock has a team of lawyers behind a self defense situation. It is a candid look at how a value brand positions itself next to the OEM standard.

The From the Soapbox segment turns serious. The group warns that gun owners get complacent after an election win, but the midterms have already started and the primary is where Second Amendment candidates are actually decided. They push back on infighting between gun communities, argue that the Second Amendment belongs to everyone, and connect it to history, tradition, and personal responsibility taught in the home. They close on magazine bans, the Assault Weapons Ban that never worked, and the long pattern of governments disarming their people. The conversation also plugs GOA's 2A Adventure Chronicles children's book series and the GOALS summit in Knoxville.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals

Questions this episode answers

What is KCI USA and what kind of magazines does it make?

KCI USA is a magazine manufacturer that makes magazines for platforms including AK, Glock, 1911, and AR. The company runs a family-owned factory in South Korea and also produces magazines for about 25 OEMs.

Why did KCI have a bad reputation, and how is the new team turning the brand around?

KCI's magazines once carried a rough reputation for poor quality, to the point that Seth told the company in his interview the mags were trash. The team is rebuilding the brand SKU by SKU, changing springs, followers, and quality control so the product earns trust at an affordable price.

How can KCI sell a magazine at half the price of a Glock mag and still be reliable?

KCI's answer is to put their money where their mouth is, handing skeptics a magazine at shows and telling them to run it hard so the public decides for itself. The turnaround focuses on improving springs, followers, and quality control to keep the product reliable at a value price point.

Would the KCI guys trust their life to their own magazines?

Keebler says he would trust his life to a KCI magazine for training and video work, but his daily carry stays on a Glock. His reasoning is mostly that Glock has a team of lawyers behind a self-defense situation.

How do you convince skeptical buyers and influencers that a value brand actually works?

KCI hands skeptics a magazine at shows, tells them to run it hard, and lets the public decide rather than arguing the point. The brand backs that up by going SKU by SKU on springs, followers, and quality control so the product holds up under real use.

Why do the hosts say gun owners get complacent after winning an election?

The hosts warn that gun owners ease off after an election win, but the midterms have already started and the fight is not over. They argue the work of protecting the Second Amendment continues past any single victory.

Why does the primary matter more than the general election for Second Amendment candidates?

The hosts argue the primary is where Second Amendment candidates are actually decided, since it determines how strong a pro-2A candidate makes it to the general election. Sitting out the primary means weaker choices later.

Do magazine bans and the Assault Weapons Ban actually work?

The hosts argue they do not, pointing to the Assault Weapons Ban that never worked and a long pattern of governments disarming their people. Their core point is that criminals do not follow laws, so the bans hit law-abiding owners instead.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Keebler and Seth
• 00:22 — Rapid fire questions
• 05:53 — Ammo Squared sponsor break
• 06:47 — What is KCI and what they make
• 09:28 — Fighting the trash reputation
• 11:50 — Affordable mags, South Korea factory
• 14:19 — Rebuilding the brand from ground zero
• 17:21 — Would you trust your life to it
• 18:43 — From the Soapbox: complacency after winning
• 25:29 — Infighting and standing together
• 35:20 — History, tradition, and the home
• 42:31 — 2A Adventure Chronicles plug
• 44:39 — Golden age of firearms and diversity
• 48:36 — Magazine bans don't work
• 53:55 — KCI links, gifts, and GOALS wrap

About the guest

Keebler and Seth are part of the KCI USA team, a magazine manufacturer that makes magazines for platforms including AK, Glock, 1911, and AR. The company runs a family-owned factory in South Korea and produces magazines for about 25 OEMs. Seth handles KCI's social media and says he told the company in his interview, three years before this recording, that the mags were trash, and stayed on to help rebuild the brand. Keebler's daily carry gun is a Glock.

Key quotes

"the mag is the least sexy thing going on in the gun until it doesn't work, then all eyes are on it." — Seth

"If we don't trust our own products, how can we then turn around and try to sell it to somebody else or even encourage somebody to use it?" — Keebler

"we are a business, we need to make money" — Keebler

"the primary is where you decide how strong of a candidate are we going to have when it comes to the second Amendment." — Kaylee

"we can't just keep going off of hopes and prayers." — Keebler

"the initial fact of all of this is that criminals don't follow laws." — Keebler

The conversation runs deep on how Faxon actually makes things. Bob and Dustin Wallace walk through why button rifling works for them once paired with an in-house stress relieving process, why the whole barrel matters and not just the rifling, and how rapid prototyping lets them run a new suppressor iteration every two to three days. They detail the new suppressor lineup announced at SHOT Show, including the three-sided Basilisk design built to add cross sectional volume without rising into the sight line, plus the engineering tradeoff of reducing back pressure without raising noise. They also cover how aftermarket pistol barrels get chosen, from dealer and customer surveys to partnerships like the 338 ARC work with Hornady and the Gray Guns SIG barrels.

The back half turns to the Soapbox. Dustin lays out the marketing catch-22 firearms companies live in: no Google Ads, posts pulled for no clear reason, and whole accounts taken down, which pushes them toward organic reach and partners like Forge Relations. Bob argues firearms manufacturers are treated as second-class businesses despite the freedoms that gun makers helped defend. Kaylee presses the point that platforms want a publisher's power without a publisher's responsibility. Bob closes on what he calls the fellowship of firearms: most rounds are fired in fellowship with family and friends, first-time shooters almost always walk away smiling, and the strongest case for the Second Amendment is letting people experience it for themselves. The episode wraps with the Pump ARAC story, the SHOT Show suppressors, and where to find Faxon at GOALS in Knoxville.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals
• ammosquared.com
• derya.us

Questions this episode answers

How did Faxon Firearms get its start, and what role did the ARAC play?

Faxon came out of a machining family that pivoted to firearms about twelve years ago when other work dried up. Bob Faxon designed the ARAC, an upper that blends AK and AR elements onto any AR15 lower, and that product is what broke the company into the industry.

Why did Faxon choose button rifling, and what makes their barrels accurate?

Faxon uses button rifling paired with an in-house stress relieving process that makes the method work consistently for them. Bob stresses that the whole barrel matters, not just the rifling, summed up as it taking everything to make a barrel right and only one thing to make it wrong.

What goes into Faxon's new suppressor lineup and the Basilisk design?

Faxon announced a new suppressor lineup at SHOT Show, using rapid prototyping to iterate every two to three days. The three-sided Basilisk is built to add cross sectional volume without rising into the sight line, while balancing the tradeoff of reducing back pressure without raising noise.

How does Faxon decide which aftermarket pistol barrels to make?

Faxon picks aftermarket pistol barrels using dealer and customer surveys, plus partnerships such as the 338 ARC work with Hornady and the Gray Guns SIG barrels.

What marketing problems do firearms companies face that other consumer brands don't?

Dustin Wallace describes a catch-22: firearms companies can't run Google Ads, have posts pulled with no clear reason, and have whole accounts taken down. That pushes them toward organic reach and partners like Forge Relations.

Why does Bob Faxon say gun makers are treated as second-class companies?

Bob argues firearms manufacturers are treated as second-class businesses despite the freedoms that gun makers helped defend. The hosts add that platforms want a publisher's power without a publisher's responsibility.

What is the 'fellowship of firearms,' and why does Bob think it matters more than the political argument?

Bob's fellowship of firearms is the idea that most rounds are fired alongside family and friends and that first-time shooters almost always walk away smiling. He believes the strongest case for the Second Amendment is letting people experience it for themselves rather than arguing politics.

How did the Pump ARAC come out of the fear that ARs would be banned?

The Pump ARAC is an innovation Faxon developed in response to the fear that semi-automatic ARs could be banned, extending the original ARAC concept. The episode covers this story alongside the SHOT Show suppressors.

Chapters

• 00:16 — Meet Bob Faxon and Dustin Wallace
• 00:18 — Rapid fire questions
• 03:27 — The John Faxon 'leg flu' story
• 06:09 — How Faxon started and the ARAC origin
• 10:06 — Pencil barrels and stress relieving
• 11:29 — Why Faxon went to button rifling
• 15:20 — What's next: the new suppressor lineup
• 20:05 — Designing the Basilisk and balancing back pressure
• 25:36 — How aftermarket pistol barrels get chosen
• 30:48 — Soapbox: the firearms marketing catch-22
• 34:39 — Treated as a second-class company
• 38:35 — Blame the person, not the firearm
• 44:18 — The Pump ARAC and innovating under fear
• 54:02 — The fellowship of firearms
• 1:00:51 — Where to find Faxon and GOALS Knoxville

About the guest

Bob Faxon is the founder of Faxon Firearms, a Cincinnati-based firearms and components manufacturer. He comes from a manufacturing family and has been machining since he was a teenager working for his older brother. In the episode he describes the company's background in defense and weapon systems work, with parts he says have been made for applications on Mars, the ocean floor, and defense missiles. As of last August, Bob is back running the firearms side of the business, with a stated goal of building a great company that leans hard on innovation. He designed the ARAC upper receiver, the product that brought Faxon into the firearms industry. He appeared alongside Dustin Wallace of Faxon Firearms.

Key quotes

"So I got mad, sat at the kitchen table and 20 minutes later I drew up the A rack." — Bob Faxon

"it takes everything to make it right. It only takes one thing to make it wrong." — Bob Faxon

"Firearms have not changed. They weren't bad then, they aren't bad now." — Bob Faxon

"the first step in gun ownership is taking personal responsibility for that firearm." — Kaylee

"when you stop innovating, when you stop growing, you start dying." — Dustin Wallace

"The more people we can get involved in our sport and our activity and to use the firearms in the constructive manner that they're meant to be, they'll get an emotional wave." — Bob Faxon

The conversation gets into how the targets actually work. The rubber stretches to let a bullet pass through, then closes back up due to its elasticity, so there's no hole left behind, just a bright contrasting mark you can spray over. Elijah explains the Gen 2 vulcanized recycled rubber, the round-count guarantee of 110 rounds of 5.56 per square inch, why hollow points and slugs are the only things that won't work, and the safety case against steel at close range where fragmentation and ricochet become a risk. He makes the value argument too: one Infinity target outlasts roughly 200 cardboard targets, and the Quantico PMO office cut two to three hours off range days just by not swapping targets between shooters.

Marketing is a through-line. As a young founder who grew up on social media, Elijah leaned on free organic content, watched TikTok become his first big platform before it banned him, and built an affiliate and YouTube creator program instead of print ads. He talks about supporting newer creators his own age and still running the social accounts himself. The back half turns to policy, where Elijah and the hosts go after the ATF, the brace ban, SBR rules, the receiver definition, and the $200 tax stamp that traces back to the 1934 cost of a Thompson. Kaylee ties it to GOA's mandate to protect, defend, and restore the Second Amendment, warning that the biggest risk for gun owners right now is taking a win and going apathetic.

Links

• events.goa.org/goals
• ammosquared.com

Questions this episode answers

How did Infinite Defense get started, and why did Elijah build a rubber target instead of buying one?

Elijah started building self-healing rubber targets as a college engineering student because he couldn't afford the roughly $500 rubber-dummy setups on the market. He ran his own material testing out in the desert, worked out a manufacturing process, and taught himself the business side using Google.

How do self-healing rubber targets actually work, and how long do they last?

The rubber stretches to let a bullet pass through, then closes back up from its own elasticity, leaving no hole behind, just a bright contrasting mark you can spray over. Infinite Defense guarantees 110 rounds of 5.56 per square inch on its Gen 2 vulcanized recycled rubber.

What are the advantages of rubber targets over steel and cardboard?

One Infinity target outlasts roughly 200 cardboard targets, and the Quantico PMO office cut two to three hours off range days by not having to swap targets between shooters. Unlike steel at close range, the rubber avoids the fragmentation and ricochet that create a safety risk.

When is steel still the better choice over a rubber target?

Elijah says he isn't trying to phase steel out of the industry, and notes the rubber targets won't work with hollow points or slugs. Those rounds are the exceptions where the self-healing rubber falls short.

How did Infinite Defense use social media, TikTok, and YouTube affiliates to grow?

As a young founder who grew up on social media, Elijah leaned on free organic content and watched TikTok become his first big platform before he was banned. He then built an affiliate and YouTube creator program in place of print ads, and still runs the social accounts himself.

How did the company handle social media restrictions and bans on firearms content?

After TikTok banned him, Elijah shifted to an affiliate and YouTube creator program instead of paid print ads, and made a point of supporting newer creators his own age. He continues to run the company's accounts and produce most of its content himself.

Why do Elijah and the hosts think the ATF and the $200 tax stamp don't make sense?

They argue the $200 tax stamp traces back to the 1934 cost of a Thompson and no longer makes sense, and they criticize the ATF over the brace ban, SBR rules, and the receiver definition. Co-host Kaylee frames it as a bill of rights, not a bill of needs.

What does Gun Owners of America say gun owners should do right now to keep the momentum going?

Co-host Kaylee ties the conversation to Gun Owners of America's mandate to protect, defend, and restore the Second Amendment. She warns that the biggest current risk is taking a win and going apathetic, because apathy kills the momentum.

Chapters

• 00:22 — Rapid Fire round
• 02:55 — How Infinite Defense got started
• 04:54 — Going all in on social media
• 06:35 — Surviving the firearms content crackdown
• 08:52 — Testing materials and target longevity
• 10:53 — Rubber vs steel vs cardboard
• 12:39 — What self-healing actually means
• 13:44 — The full target lineup
• 15:11 — Building growth through YouTube affiliates
• 19:03 — Backing the next generation of creators
• 21:10 — From the Soapbox: the ATF and brace ban
• 29:25 — The broom analogy for NFA laws
• 33:20 — Taxing a constitutional right
• 36:35 — Don't take a win and go apathetic

About the guest

Elijah is the founder of Infinite Defense, the maker of Infinity Targets, self-healing rubber shooting targets. He started the company as an engineering student, transferred to ASU after he stopped playing college football, and later dropped out to run the business. He ran his material testing out in the desert and taught himself business through Google. He restarted Infinite Defense from a blank slate on April 20, 2022, building it out of his dad's garage before moving into a warehouse. He still runs the company's social media accounts and handles most of its content himself. Based in Phoenix.

Key quotes

"I was a red anodized AR part guy, just shooting paper targets and whatnot." — Elijah

"We're not trying to phase out steel of the industry." — Elijah

"We just brought a better solution to the market." — Elijah

"It's a bill of rights, not a bill of needs, period." — Kaylee

"Apathy kills the momentum." — Kaylee

"What logical human just goes, I'm stopping because this is hard." — John

The conversation digs into how movies move the market. John Wick guns like the Taran Tactical builds go for staggering amounts, and Alan walks through the icons: the Bren 10 carried by Sonny Crockett in Miami Vice (the Crockett Cooper effect), the MP5 from Die Hard and the SAS embassy raid, the Beretta 92 from Die Hard and Lethal Weapon (same armorer, same guns, even matching serial numbers in some shots), and the Desert Eagle from the Vinnie Jones Snatch line. For sheer impact, Alan argues Dirty Harry and the Smith & Wesson Model 29 win. The gun was about to come out of the catalog and nobody wanted it, then within roughly an 18-month span it went to multiple-year backordered. As Alan puts it, that movie kind of saved an entire product line.

The back half turns serious. Alan and the hosts cover the COVID rush on firearms, when GunBroker was often the only place with inventory and some shops told the company they wouldn't be open today without it. They get into common myths, that you can't buy a gun online and that it ships straight to your door, both untrue, since every purchase still routes through an FFL dealer who knows local law. GunBroker also stays on top of sellers who try to fake-bid their own items. The episode closes on Second Amendment politics: why an executive order is only as good as that administration, why the 60-vote threshold matters, and why the midterms can't be ignored after a presidential year. Alan and Kaylee land on the same point, that the giant group in the middle is where the fight is won.

Links

• gunbroker.com
• ammosquared.com
• derya.us

Questions this episode answers

What does GunBroker actually do, and why does Alan describe it as a broker rather than a store?

GunBroker neither makes nor sells firearms; it connects buyers and sellers, which is why Alan calls it a broker. That model means a huge range of inventory passes through the site, from commodity pistols like the Glock 19, P320, and M&P to rare, obscure pieces.

How did the movie Dirty Harry change the market for the Smith & Wesson Model 29?

Alan argues Dirty Harry had the biggest market impact of any movie gun. The Model 29 was about to be dropped from the catalog with nobody wanting it, then within roughly 18 months it went to multiple-year backordered, which Alan says essentially saved the product line.

Why do John Wick guns and other movie-used firearms sell for such high prices on GunBroker?

Films turn ordinary guns into icons, and that pop-culture demand follows them to the market. John Wick builds like the Taran Tactical pistols sell for staggering amounts, the same effect that surrounded the Bren 10 from Miami Vice and the Desert Eagle from Snatch.

What are the biggest myths about buying a gun on GunBroker, and how does the FFL transfer process really work?

The two common myths are that you cannot buy a gun online and that it ships straight to your door, and both are untrue. Every purchase routes through a licensed FFL dealer who handles the transfer and knows local law.

Does GunBroker stop sellers from bidding up their own auctions?

Yes. GunBroker actively monitors and acts on sellers who try to fake-bid their own listings, which protects both buyers and honest sellers on the platform.

What happened to GunBroker and firearms demand during COVID?

Demand surged and GunBroker was often the only place with inventory in stock. Alan says a number of shops told the company they would not still be open today if it had not been for GunBroker.

What buyer tips does Alan share for finding undervalued auctions?

Alan points buyers toward auctions that close on Tuesdays, which he says often go a little under value, and he suggests keeping an eye on penny auctions as well.

Why do Alan and the hosts say executive orders aren't enough, and why do the midterms matter for the Second Amendment?

An executive order is only as good as the administration that issued it, so lasting Second Amendment protection requires laws passed through Congress, where the 60-vote threshold matters. They argue the midterms can't be ignored, because the large group in the middle is where the fight is won.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Alan from GunBroker
• 01:10 — What Alan does and the inventory he sees
• 03:10 — Rapid fire: EDC, coffee, greatest inventor
• 07:30 — Being on the auction side of the industry
• 09:59 — The Bren 10 and the Crockett Cooper effect
• 11:00 — John Wick and movie guns that move the market
• 12:32 — Most impactful movie guns: Dirty Harry's Model 29
• 16:32 — Classic top sellers and the Indiana Jones revolver
• 18:01 — Hollywood, pop culture, and the 2A message
• 24:14 — Soapbox: myths about buying on GunBroker
• 25:46 — Fake bids and protecting buyers and sellers
• 28:41 — The COVID rush on firearms
• 36:56 — Executive orders vs. passing real laws
• 37:35 — Why the midterms matter
• 44:28 — Where to find Alan and GunBroker

About the guest

Alan is Vice President of Public Relations and Brand Management at GunBroker. Before joining GunBroker he worked as a PR professional at a marketing agency. He co-hosts GunBroker's "No Lowballers" podcast alongside Logan Medish. He describes himself as a gun nerd whose saved searches include the Bren 10 and the AutoMag.

Key quotes

"we don't make anything. We don't even sell anything. We're a broker. We connect the buyer and seller." — Alan

"So that movie kind of saved an entire product line. So it's kind of hard to argue that impact." — Alan

"with COVID we've had a number of shops tell us that they wouldn't be open today if it hadn't been for Gunbroker." — Alan

"without the actual laws passed and the bills either enacted or laws taken off the books, an EO is only as good as that administration." — Alan

"now is not the time for apathy. Now is the time to make your voices heard and to really continue the momentum." — Kaylee

The legal core of the episode is knife rights. Chris frames knife rights as the cousin of gun rights, both protected under the Second Amendment, and traces two waves of knife bans: the post-Civil War laws targeting dirks, daggers, and Bowie knives, and the 1958 federal Switchblade Act aimed at switchblades and balisongs. He describes the current renaissance as states roll those restrictions back, citing Wisconsin legalizing switchblades and balisongs at the same time it allowed concealed carry with a permit, and points listeners to Kniferights.org and the USCCA reciprocity map to check local laws. From his soapbox he argues that people intent on harm find a way regardless of the tool, using England's violent crime and knife-crime rates as his example, and pushes for addressing root causes like mental health rather than legislating objects out of existence.

The back half turns to strategy. Chris runs a range in Wisconsin called the Highlands, attached to a winery and music venue, where he introduces non-gun visitors to self-defense through non-lethal tools first, then moves them in bite-sized steps toward firearms. He and the hosts talk about moving people from anti-gun to neutral, the danger of accepting an incremental level of tyranny, campus carry, and how restrictions normalize the idea that a tool must be bad. Kaylee makes the grassroots case: politicians respond to pressure, the Second Amendment has to be on the ballot, and the Second Amendment sanctuary movement that started in Virginia spread county by county into constitutional carry. The episode closes on local races, GOA's role fighting national battles, and a Krate Tactical and GOA deal where part of the proceeds from each knife go back to GOA.

Links

• ammosquared.com
• derya.us

Questions this episode answers

How did Krate Tactical get started, and who founded it?

Krate Tactical was founded in 2017 by Mark and John, who began as e-commerce sellers, got hooked on shooting steel targets, and learned manufacturing and distribution. The company built its reputation in USPSA and IDPA competition circles and makes steel, cardboard, and reactive targets plus a growing line of out-the-front knives.

Why are knife rights considered part of the Second Amendment?

Chris from Krate Tactical frames knife rights as the cousin of gun rights, with both protected under the Second Amendment. The argument is that the right to bear arms covers more than firearms, so the same principles that defend gun ownership also defend the right to carry knives.

What are the two historical waves of knife bans in the United States?

Chris traces two waves of knife bans: post-Civil War laws targeting dirks, daggers, and Bowie knives, and the 1958 federal Switchblade Act aimed at switchblades and balisongs. He describes the current period as a renaissance in which states are rolling those restrictions back.

Which states are rolling back knife laws, and where can you check what's legal in your area?

Chris cites Wisconsin, which legalized switchblades and balisongs at the same time it allowed permitted concealed carry, as an example of the rollback. He points listeners to Kniferights.org and the USCCA reciprocity map to check the laws where they live.

How do you move someone who is anti-gun toward supporting self-defense and firearms?

At his Wisconsin range, the Highlands, Chris introduces non-gun visitors to self-defense through non-lethal tools first, then moves them in bite-sized steps toward firearms. The goal is shifting people from anti-gun to neutral rather than pushing them all the way at once.

What does Chris argue is the real root cause of violence, beyond the weapon used?

Chris argues that people intent on harm find a way regardless of the tool, using England's violent crime and knife-crime rates as his example. He pushes for addressing root causes like mental health instead of legislating objects out of existence.

How did the Second Amendment sanctuary movement grow, and why do local races matter?

The Second Amendment sanctuary movement started in Virginia and spread county by county into constitutional carry. Kaylee makes the grassroots case that politicians respond to pressure, so local races and putting the 2A on the ballot are where the fight is won.

What is the Krate Tactical and GOA deal offering listeners?

Krate Tactical and Gun Owners of America have a deal in which part of the proceeds from each knife go back to GOA. It ties a knife purchase to funding the organization's national fight for the Second Amendment.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Intro and Ammo Squared
• 01:53 — Rapid fire questions
• 07:45 — Chris's background and the Krate origin story
• 13:00 — The knee target and risque designs
• 13:55 — Knife laws and the Second Amendment
• 14:54 — History of knife bans: Civil War to 1958
• 16:39 — The knife rights renaissance and checking your laws
• 19:36 — Soapbox: people find a way to do harm
• 22:45 — Translating knife momentum to gun rights
• 23:25 — Bite-sized steps from non-lethal to firearms
• 34:36 — Campus carry and accepting tyranny
• 39:20 — Grassroots, town halls, and GOA's One in the Chamber
• 46:37 — Second Amendment sanctuary ordinances
• 49:53 — GOALS event, where to find Krate, and close

About the guest

Chris is a representative of Krate Tactical, where he has worked since October 2024. He has been in the firearms and self-defense industry for five years, and before joining Krate he was a business development manager at the US Concealed Carry Association (USCCA). He also runs a range in Wisconsin called the Highlands, which includes a winery and a music venue, where he teaches a non-lethal tools for self-defense class. His last name is not stated in the episode.

Key quotes

"We don't cut corners, we make sure everything's quality." — Chris

"knife rights are the cousin of, of gun rights." — Chris

"People find a way to do harm. If there's evil in your heart, evil will come out of you." — Chris

"the more that people try to regulate these things out of existence, it doesn't work. We need to look at the root cause of what's going on." — Chris

"you start accepting the level of tyranny that you're comfortable with." — Kaylee

"They are counting on our apathy and we can't afford to be apathetic when it comes to protecting our constitutionally protected rights." — Kaylee

"we can give money and then we can give time." — Chris

The heart of the episode is the idea Kaylee calls your "second vote": voting with your dollar. The hosts and Brian argue that consumers are increasingly choosing where their money goes once it leaves their account, and that a growing "parallel economy" lets people buy quality products from companies that are openly pro-America and pro-Second Amendment. Brian is candid that taking that stance can cost a brand shelf space, and his answer is blunt: if a store won't carry them because of who they are, they don't want that store. John pushes the convenience problem too, noting people grab the easy $8 Starbucks latte or a Coca-Cola-family energy drink rather than picking a brand that supports their values.

Brian also walks through the product line and his own path in. A former sports-partnerships professional, he accepted a dream job in Atlanta in March 2020 right as live sports and entertainment shut down, started making hot sauces during COVID, and was recruited by ownership to launch the coffee brand. Caliber is now in Food Lion, some Ace Hardware locations, and hundreds of independent retailers, with online subscriptions that have tripled. The lineup is expanding into Reload Energy drinks built on nostalgic 90s flavors with zero sugar and no artificial dyes, Bull Barrel beef jerky sold exclusively through PSA, and a future sauce line. Coffee runs about $14.99 a bag. The episode closes on the recurring pitch: supporting the mission can be as small as the energy drink or bag of jerky you were going to buy anyway, plus the standing plug for GOA's GOALS event in Knoxville on August 9th and 10th.

Links

• ammosquared.com
• derya.us

Questions this episode answers

What is Caliber Coffee's relationship to Palmetto State Armory and JJE Capital?

Caliber Coffee sits under the Tactical Eats umbrella and shares ownership with Palmetto State Armory through JJE Capital. That common ownership is why buying the coffee ties directly into PSA's firearms and rights work.

Where does the money from Caliber Coffee and Tactical Eats products actually go?

Money spent on the coffee goes back into manufacturing guns and ammunition and into funding amicus briefs the PSA team is part of. Brian frames the brand's motto, "freedom in every cup," as the actual business model rather than just a slogan.

What is the Joe 2A Joe program and how much coffee has it donated?

Joe 2A Joe donates a portion of proceeds as coffee to active-duty members, veterans, and first responders. About three to four tons were given away in the company's first year.

What does Kaylee mean by your "second vote" and voting with your dollar?

Your second vote is the choice of where your money goes once it leaves your account, treating each purchase as a vote for the values a company stands for. Caliber's pitch is that buying from openly pro-America, pro-Second Amendment brands is part of a growing parallel economy that lets consumers spend on their values.

How did Brian end up starting the coffee brand?

Brian came from sports partnerships and accepted a dream job in Atlanta in March 2020, right as live sports and entertainment shut down. He started making hot sauces during COVID, which led ownership to recruit him to launch the coffee brand.

What products are in the Tactical Eats lineup beyond coffee?

Beyond coffee, the lineup includes Reload Energy drinks built on nostalgic 90s flavors with zero sugar and no artificial dyes, Bull Barrel beef jerky sold exclusively through PSA, and a sauce line still to come. Coffee runs about $14.99 a bag.

Why would a brand risk losing retail shelf space by being openly pro-Second Amendment?

Taking an open pro-Second Amendment stance can cost a brand shelf space, but Brian's answer is blunt: if a store won't carry them because of who they are, they don't want that store. The bet is that customers who share those values will seek the brand out anyway.

Where can you buy Caliber Coffee and sign up for a subscription?

Caliber Coffee is sold in Food Lion, some Ace Hardware locations, and hundreds of independent retailers, plus online subscriptions that have tripled. Bull Barrel beef jerky is carried exclusively through Palmetto State Armory.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome back and meet Brian from Caliber Coffee
• 00:53 — AAC and Palmetto State Armory guest gift
• 02:50 — Ammo Squared sponsor read
• 03:40 — Rapid fire: black coffee, brewing, and flavors
• 13:46 — Impulse buys, kids, and 90s nostalgia
• 20:48 — Caliber under Tactical Eats and where the money goes
• 23:15 — The second vote and voting with your dollar
• 24:43 — Freedom in every cup and the Joe 2A Joe program
• 25:50 — Tactical Eats lineup and Brian's COVID hot sauce start
• 32:03 — Soapbox: being unapologetically pro-America
• 41:50 — Subscriptions, retailers, and beef jerky flavors
• 44:16 — Road trip snacks and clean ingredients
• 53:55 — Small ways to support the mission
• 57:24 — Where to find Caliber Coffee and GOALS wrap-up

About the guest

Brian leads the coffee brand at Caliber Coffee, which sits under Tactical Eats and shares ownership with Palmetto State Armory through JJE Capital. He started his career in sports partnerships and had accepted a dream job in Atlanta in March 2020, around the time live sports and entertainment shut down. During COVID he began making hot sauces from scratch, which led ownership to recruit him to start the coffee brand. He describes himself as a brand guy and has since helped expand the product line into energy drinks, beef jerky, and a coming sauce line. He has three kids under five, two boys and a newborn girl. [VERIFY] Full name and title not stated in the episode beyond "Brian."

Key quotes

"It's about fueling Americans with the freedoms that they enjoy." — Brian

"Well, if a store's not going to take us on because of who we are, then we don't want to do business with the store in the first place." — Brian

"It's really driven a lot of people to consider their second vote." — Kaylee

"When you buy our coffee, it might be a little more expensive than, you know, Folgers, which we try to keep everything pretty market value, but it's worth it." — Brian

"When you know you can trust a brand and then you know that you can trust all their ancillary brands, all of a sudden, you feel a huge boost of confidence as a consumer." — Kaylee

"Our rights were fought for. Our rights were bled for. People died for our rights." — Brian

Much of the episode is practical. They lay out a plan for the worst night of your life: keep your 911 call to five or six words, give a short truthful statement about the defensive incident, then hang up and stop talking. If police arrive before you have a lawyer, say enough to point them at what happened, then clearly state you will not give a further statement until you speak to an attorney. If you are arrested, actually say the words to invoke your right to remain silent and your right to an attorney. They stress that finding a real firearms and self-defense lawyer ahead of time matters, because your wills-and-probate uncle cannot help you at 2 in the morning.

The conversation then turns to the title's myths. Dragging a body inside the doorway destroys your credibility the moment physical evidence stops matching. Stickers, signs, and social media posts all become potential state's exhibits. Emily points to Daniel Perry in Austin, convicted in part on his own messages about handling protesters. They argue this is a calculated risk decision each person should make on purpose, not wander into. In the policy segment, as GOA's legislative counsel in Texas, they preview goals for the 89th legislative session: bolstering self-defense rights, letting defenders raise an affirmative defense earlier to dismiss a case, shielding justified defenders from civil shakedowns, decoupling Texas from federal law on items like short-barreled rifles, and ending gun-free zones. They credit GOA for constitutional carry and the law banning firearm merchant category codes. Find them on YouTube and X as Armed Attorneys, and at Walker Taylor Law in Texas.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

What actually happens legally after you use a gun in self-defense?

Self-defense is a justification that excuses what would otherwise be a crime, so you can still be charged with murder or aggravated assault and forced to raise self-defense at trial. The Armed Attorneys note that even acquitted defendants do not feel like winners, because the process itself is the punishment.

Why do people who clearly defended themselves still get arrested and charged?

Because self-defense is a legal justification rather than a finding of innocence, prosecutors can still bring charges and leave it to a jury. The Armed Attorneys estimate roughly 95% of self-defense cases land in a gray area where a jury decides whether the shooting was justified.

What are the five factors that make or break a self-defense case?

Drawing on Andrew Branca's framework, the Armed Attorneys use five factors: innocence, imminence, proportionality, reasonableness, and avoidance. Richard says that having all five makes for a rock-solid self-defense case.

What should you say, and not say, on a 911 call after a defensive shooting?

Keep the 911 call to five or six words, give a short truthful statement about the defensive incident, then hang up and stop talking. Saying more risks creating evidence that can be used against you.

How do you correctly invoke your right to remain silent and your right to an attorney?

If arrested, actually say the words to invoke your right to remain silent and your right to an attorney rather than just staying quiet. The Armed Attorneys stress that clearly stating these rights out loud is what protects you.

Why are gun stickers, signs, and social media posts a legal risk if you ever use self-defense?

Stickers, signs, and social media posts can all become state's exhibits used against you in court. Emily points to Daniel Perry in Austin, who was convicted in part on his own messages about handling protesters.

What gun-law changes are the Armed Attorneys pushing for in Texas's 89th legislative session?

As Gun Owners of America's legislative counsel in Texas, they want to bolster self-defense rights, let defenders raise an affirmative defense earlier to dismiss a case, shield justified defenders from civil shakedowns, decouple Texas from federal law on items like short-barreled rifles, and end gun-free zones.

Why does dragging a body into your house turn a justified shooting into a prison sentence?

Moving a body destroys your credibility the moment the physical evidence stops matching your account. The Armed Attorneys treat this as the kind of myth that converts a defensible shooting into a conviction.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet the Armed Attorneys
• 01:57 — Sponsors and rapid fire questions
• 05:32 — Home defense guns and family plans
• 06:39 — Why you need a home defense plan
• 11:30 — Self-defense as a justification, not innocence
• 12:35 — The five-factor self-defense framework
• 16:45 — Finding an attorney before you need one
• 18:33 — The 911 call and talking to police
• 22:09 — Invoking your rights after arrest
• 23:37 — Self-defense myths and a murder trial story
• 27:08 — Pleading out and the government's pound of flesh
• 29:11 — Stickers, signs, and social media as evidence
• 37:10 — From the Soapbox: Texas legislative agenda
• 44:10 — Decoupling from federal law and the ATF
• 55:44 — Where to find the Armed Attorneys

About the guest

The Armed Attorneys are Emily and Richard, firearms attorneys based in Texas. Both were felony prosecutors for Galveston County, Texas before leaving the district attorney's office to build a practice focused entirely on Second Amendment work, including criminal defense for people charged after using self-defense. They are GOA's legislative counsel in Texas, a role they began in 2021, and they work at the Texas capitol on firearms bills. They run the Armed Attorneys YouTube channel, where they focus on myth-busting and putting gun law in plain English, and they practice at Walker Taylor Law as licensed Texas attorneys. They are married with young children.

Key quotes

"even if they're acquitted, they're found not guilty, they do not feel like winners because the process is the punishment." — Richard

"his factors are innocence, imminence, proportionality, reasonableness and avoidance. And once you start, if you have all five of those, guess what, you got a rock solid self defense case." — Richard

"not having a plan at 3am with your eyes adjusting the light and your ears ringing, that's not the time to crack open the phone book." — Richard

"It's very important that folks know how to invoke the right to remain silent and invoke their right to an attorney." — Richard

"Everything you post on social media is potentially dangerous for you" — Emily

"We should be completely decoupled from federal law. Texas should be doing its own thing" — Richard

The name does double duty. A goon is an enforcer and a goon is a bad guy, and Adam saw goon culture in the Second Amendment space as a way to say he carries to defend his family, not to hunt deer. The marketing leans into what he calls advertainment, the kind of weird, artistic gun content people either love or hate. That approach pulls in people who tell him they have no interest in guns but liked the marketing. Adam talks through the surreal feeling of seeing GoonTape stickers and shirts in the wild, the handwritten notes the company still puts in every package, and the bro community that has formed around something as simple as tape. He also recaps GOALS in Knoxville, where smaller companies and big names like Smith and Wesson all felt approachable.

The back half is the soapbox. Adam's gripe is that the gun community needs to recruit people on the fence instead of preaching at them, reaching gamers, airsoft and paintball players, and people overseas who only know guns from mass-shooting coverage. He and John trade real situational-awareness stories, from a near home invasion to being followed on the Las Vegas Strip, and argue the police often arrive after the danger is over. They cover constitutional carry, the racist origins of gun control, Virginia's 2020 turnout in Richmond, and why a concealed-carry event might bring more people in than open-carrying rifles. Adam closes on the gun-store experience as many newcomers' first impression, praising welcoming ranges and calling out egotistical salespeople who run people off.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

What is GoonTape and what is it actually made of?

GoonTape is a heat-resistant athletic cloth tape made from a cotton-poly blend, marketed toward firearms and combative sports as a cheap, disposable way to handle gear that gets hot, like an AK barrel. Adam describes it as soft tape for rough work that can be used for anything.

How did GoonTape get started, and what was Adam doing before it?

Adam started GoonTape during COVID after working in enterprise software sales and running black-tie security gigs in New York City that dried up when corporate events stopped. As an AK shooter, he tested metals and cloth types, landed on a cotton-poly blend, and committed to a factory minimum of 10,000 rolls.

Where did the name GoonTape come from?

Adam chose the name because a goon is both an enforcer and a bad guy, and he saw goon culture in the Second Amendment space as a way to say he carries to defend his family, not to hunt deer.

How does GoonTape use marketing to bring people who aren't into guns into the community?

GoonTape leans into what Adam calls advertainment, weird and artistic gun content that draws in viewers who tell him they have no interest in guns but liked the marketing. Reaching those on-the-fence people is the entire goal, reinforced by handwritten notes in every package and a bro community around the tape.

Why does Adam believe situational awareness matters more than relying on police response?

Adam and host John trade real stories, including a near home invasion and being followed on the Las Vegas Strip, and argue that police often arrive after the danger is already over. The takeaway is that staying aware of your surroundings is your first line of defense.

What does Adam think the gun community gets wrong about recruiting people on the fence?

Adam argues the gun community preaches at people instead of recruiting those on the fence, and should reach gamers, airsoft and paintball players, and people overseas who only know guns from mass-shooting coverage. The goal is growing the Second Amendment community, not just talking to insiders.

Why can a welcoming gun store matter more than the gun itself for a first-time buyer?

Adam points out that the gun store is many newcomers' first impression of the community, so a welcoming range can bring people in while an egotistical salesperson runs them off. He also suggests a concealed-carry event may draw more newcomers than open-carrying rifles.

What did Adam take away from GOALS in Knoxville?

Adam recapped the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) in Knoxville, where both smaller companies and big names like Smith and Wesson felt approachable.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Adam from GoonTape
• 00:43 — Rapid fire questions
• 03:08 — Adam's revolver-heavy EDC
• 05:03 — Home defense guns by state
• 09:09 — How GoonTape started during COVID
• 13:21 — Why the name is GoonTape
• 15:31 — When sales took off
• 17:42 — GOALS in Knoxville
• 20:42 — The coolest uses for the tape
• 23:25 — Building the GoonTape community
• 26:48 — Soapbox: recruiting people on the fence
• 29:56 — Situational-awareness stories
• 39:53 — Constitutional carry and gun-control history
• 42:43 — Virginia, lobby day, and going on offense
• 55:15 — The gun-store experience for newcomers
• 59:43 — Sponsor gift and where to find GoonTape

About the guest

Adam is the founder of GoonTape, which makes a heat-resistant cotton-poly blend cloth tape marketed toward firearms and combative sports. He is from Long Island, New York and now lives in Northern Virginia. Before starting GoonTape he worked in enterprise software sales, then trained through the Executive Protection Institute's driving school and seven-day bodyguard program and worked black-tie security gigs in New York City. He started GoonTape during COVID and has run it for over four years. He is a self-described revolver fan and FUD who carries firearms for self-defense.

Key quotes

"We make heat resistant athletic tape. We market it towards firearms and combative sports. Essentially we say it's soft tape for rough work, but you could use it for anything." — Adam

"We are here to grow the second amendment community full stop." — Adam

"we had had multiple people tell me, I don't, I'm not interested in guns. But I really liked your marketing and it piqued my interest. And I'm like, that is our entire goal." — Adam

"I want the gun community to add more people that are trying to recruit people on the fence." — Adam

"If you want to know what the society would look like if good people couldn't own firearms, go to Manhattan." — Adam

From there the episode turns to the media landscape and why podcasting is on the uptick as a place people go for unbiased news and real conversation, with a side complaint about America's gnat-sized attention span and the way pure stupidity goes viral while valuable content stalls. The crew agrees the election went the way they wanted but warns against letting the pendulum swing too far, and presses the point that voted-in politicians have to be held accountable to preserve the Constitution. The show's 'From the Soapbox' segment, brought to you by Patriot Mobile, is where it gets pointed. Mike argues America has a judicial system, not a justice system, and that anyone deemed fit to return to society should get their rights back, including the right to own a gun. Adam frames it as three options: termination, incarceration, or full citizenship with no felon label hanging over you. They apply the no-compromise logic to Hunter Biden, agreeing that if he's not in prison and not violent, he has the same right to protect himself as anyone.

The back half digs into veterans and rights. Adam, an active-duty Army drill sergeant and medic, calls the VA a failed system and explains why the fear of losing firearms keeps service members from seeking behavioral health care. Mike, speaking as a non-veteran, argues a VA card should be accepted at any hospital, the same care politicians and four-star generals get. The episode closes on the ATF, where Mike says the chant should shift from 'abolish' to 'reform,' and lays out a plan to move suppressors out of ATF control by building a uniform, OSHA-compliant hearing-safety standard the silencer industry could compete on. John thanks the guests and notes Palmetto State Armory and AAC sponsored gift packages for season two guests. Find Whiskey & Windage at whiskeyandwindage.com and across YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Spotify, and Apple.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

Who is Whiskey & Windage and how did the three of them come together?

Whiskey & Windage is a firearms podcast hosted by a cigar-and-bourbon trio: Mike, founder and owner of a Nashville firearm shop; Adam, an active-duty Army drill sergeant and medic; and Matt Brass, a collector. It started October 1, 2023 on Tyler Hoover's Antihero channel, then went solo January 1, 2024.

What does Whiskey & Windage mean by humanizing the firearms industry?

The trio's mission is to push back on the assumption that the firearms industry is full of heartless companies by showing that even the big names are still family-owned American businesses. Founder Mike modeled the show on how guys talk guns around a campfire, putting real people behind the brands.

How much of the gun industry actually makes its own parts versus sharing manufacturing?

The crew argues a lot of manufacturing is shared across the industry, with companies crop-sharing parts the way farmers do rather than each making everything in-house. Mike admits he used to poor-shame budget guns before he understood how the supply chain actually works.

Why do the hosts believe podcasting is becoming where people go for news and unbiased stories?

They see podcasting on the uptick as a place for unbiased news and real conversation, in contrast to mainstream media. Their side complaint is America's short attention span and the way pure stupidity goes viral while valuable content stalls.

What is the difference between a judicial system and a justice system, and why does it matter for gun rights?

Mike argues America has a judicial system, not a justice system, and that anyone deemed fit to return to society should get their rights back, including the right to own a gun. Adam frames it as three options: termination, incarceration, or full citizenship with no felon label attached.

Should a non-violent felon or someone like Hunter Biden be allowed to own a firearm?

The crew applies its no-compromise logic to Hunter Biden, agreeing that if he is not in prison and not violent, he has the same right to protect himself as anyone else. Their broader position is that a non-violent person returned to society should have full rights restored.

Why does the fear of losing firearms keep service members from getting VA behavioral health care?

Adam, an active-duty Army drill sergeant and medic, says the fear of losing a basic constitutional right stops many service members from seeking behavioral health care, and he calls the VA a failed system. Mike argues a VA card should be accepted at any hospital for the same care politicians and four-star generals get.

How could suppressors be moved out of ATF control using an OSHA hearing-safety standard?

Mike says the chant should shift from abolish to reform the ATF, and proposes moving suppressors out of ATF control by building a uniform, OSHA-compliant hearing-safety standard the silencer industry could compete on.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Whiskey & Windage
• 01:09 — Rapid fire with Blackout Coffee
• 07:51 — How the trio found each other
• 09:11 — Humanizing the firearms industry
• 11:57 — Poor-shaming and shared manufacturing
• 16:31 — Starting the show and the grind of podcasting
• 19:32 — Podcasting, media, and attention spans
• 24:44 — The election and holding politicians accountable
• 29:35 — From the Soapbox: justice vs judicial system
• 34:51 — No compromise on Hunter Biden's rights
• 37:00 — The VA, veterans, and firearm rights
• 38:38 — ATF: reform instead of abolish
• 46:47 — An OSHA standard for suppressors
• 50:20 — Sponsor thanks and where to find them

About the guest

Whiskey & Windage is a firearms podcast made up of three people. Mike is the founder of Whiskey & Windage and the owner of a firearm shop in Nashville, Tennessee. Adam is an active-duty Army drill sergeant and a medic. Matt Brass describes himself as a collector. The show started unofficially on October 1, 2023 as part of a daily-drop channel organized by Tyler Hoover of the Antihero podcast, then went out on its own on January 1, 2024. The crew says they put in around 40 hours a week on the back end of the show between the three of them.

Key quotes

"But our whole goal is to humanize this industry." — Mike

"A lot of folks in our, you know, in the 2A industry want to support, want to support American businesses." — Matt Brass

"We have a judicial system now. We do not have a justice system." — Mike

"It's preserve the Constitution." — Adam

"I think it inhibits a lot of service members from getting the help they need because of the fear of losing a basic constitutional right." — Adam

"I think our chant needs to change from abolish to reform." — Mike

The conversation gets into why building a firearms brand is so hard. Advertising the product directly is, in his words, practically impossible, so the company started a separate coffee brand (Crayon Eater Coffee) and an apparel company (Precision Custom Apparel) as a workaround to run paid advertising outside the firearms industry and backlink it to the main company. Cameron walks through how the side charger works, the engineering problems it solves, and the markets it found beyond tactical use, including competition shooters, hunters, people with injuries, and compliance states like California and Pennsylvania where it can turn an AR into a straight pull. He also details the roughly six-to-seven year fight to make a version that works across the fragmented AR10 market and a separate armorer's tool he developed with John from Hera Arms and the company American Resistance Gear.

Cameron shares a rough stretch earlier in the year when the company's social media and business bank accounts were hacked and everything got wiped, two weeks after he retired. Social media was a vast majority of sales, and he only recovered access after working through a local assemblyman and congressional contacts to reach Meta. The episode covers GOALS as a breakthrough convention because of its media day, what it's like owning guns in New York, the failure of district attorneys to hold criminals accountable, mental health, and GOA's closing message that contacting your senator and congressman takes 30 seconds and that elected officials serve the people, not the other way around.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

What is the Devil Dog Concepts side charging handle and what problem with the standard AR charging handle does it solve?

It is a side charging handle system Cameron Hillman designed for the AR platform after he got tired of fighting with the standard charging handle while running failure drills in gloves on a SWAT team. The concept turns an AR into a side charger without having to machine, modify, or change anything on the rifle.

Why did Cameron Hillman start a coffee company and an apparel company alongside the firearms business?

Advertising a firearms product directly is practically impossible, so he launched Crayon Eater Coffee and Precision Custom Apparel as a workaround to run paid ads outside the firearms industry and backlink that traffic to the main Devil Dog Concepts company.

How did Cameron Hillman come up with the idea for the side charger?

He got sick of fighting with the standard AR charging handle while running failure drills in gloves on a New York SWAT team, sat down drawing one day, and came up with the side charging handle system. Eleven years later it has grown into a full product line.

What happened when Devil Dog Concepts' social media and bank accounts got hacked, and how did Cameron get them back?

About two weeks after he retired, the company's social media and business bank accounts were hacked and wiped, which hit hard because social media drove the vast majority of sales. He only recovered access after working through a local assemblyman and congressional contacts to reach Meta.

Why was the Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) such a turning point for a small firearms company?

The Gun Owners Action Leadership Summit (GOALS) was a breakthrough for Devil Dog Concepts because of its media day, which Cameron Hillman says opened the door and brought eyes and awareness to his product.

What is it like to own guns in New York according to a retired police officer?

Cameron Hillman, who lives in New York and spent about five years on a SWAT team there, speaks at length about the difficulty of owning guns in the state, and the episode ties it to compliance restrictions and the failure of district attorneys to hold criminals accountable.

Why does Cameron Hillman argue the focus should be on qualifying the person rather than regulating the gun?

He frames the issue as letting the person be qualified for the gun rather than the gun qualified for the person, connecting it to district attorneys failing to hold criminals accountable and to mental health rather than the firearm itself.

How can gun owners make their voice heard with Gun Owners of America in about 30 seconds?

Gun Owners of America (GOA) closes the episode noting that contacting your senator and congressman takes about 30 seconds, and that elected officials serve the people, not the other way around.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and sponsor thank you
• 00:39 — Cameron introduces himself and Devil Dog
• 01:54 — Rapid fire questions
• 04:12 — What Devil Dog Concepts makes
• 08:36 — Compliance states and straight pull use
• 10:07 — Standardizing the fragmented AR10
• 13:00 — The coffee and apparel advertising workaround
• 16:36 — GOALS media day breakthrough
• 17:42 — Hacked accounts and the congressman fix
• 22:54 — Building an armorer's tool with John and ARG
• 26:00 — Trust and brothers in arms in the industry
• 29:29 — Soapbox: owning guns in New York
• 40:36 — DAs and accountability
• 44:29 — Election, mental health, and the culture
• 51:31 — GOA call to action and wrap up

About the guest

Cameron Hillman is the president and CEO of Devil Dog Concepts and the inventor of the company's side charging handle system for the AR platform. He is a former Marine who served as a military police canine handler, and he went on to a career in law enforcement, including about five years on a SWAT team in New York, before recently retiring. He started Devil Dog Concepts after getting frustrated with the standard AR charging handle, and the company is now in its eleventh year. He also runs a coffee brand, Crayon Eater Coffee, and an apparel company, Precision Custom Apparel. He lives in New York.

Key quotes

"The whole company was an accident." — Cameron Hillman

"So the concept was turn it into a side charger without having to machine modify or do anything different." — Cameron Hillman

"It really opened the door and it brought eyes and awareness to my product." — Cameron Hillman

"I came from absolutely nothing. This thing started out of thin air." — Cameron Hillman

"Let the person be qualified for the gun, not the gun qualified for the person." — Cameron Hillman

"Now is the time to grow that grassroots effort and just push." — John

"They are elected. They serve us, we don't serve them." — John

The conversation walks a complete beginner through the whole process. The most popular entry product is the Patriot Pack, which starts around a $200 price point and includes divisible one-ounce silver rounds, one-gram silver bars, and a one-gram piece of gold in a small carry bag. It was designed for an affordable entry and for a bartering situation, since the pieces break into smaller amounts. The guests explain that smaller pieces carry a higher premium because they are harder to make, walk through how orders ship (mailed to your billing address after fraud verification, FedEx with a signature over a certain dollar amount), where to store metals (a gun safe works for most people), and confirm there are no reporting requirements for a purchase. They frame precious metals as a savings account and a mid-to-long-term wealth-preservation tool, not a buy-today-sell-tomorrow play, and tie it back to firearms: you protect your family with guns and your wealth with gold and silver.

The soapbox segment turns serious. Chad warns about a tech support scam that turns into a gold scam, where a pop-up tells the victim to call a fake Microsoft or official-sounding company, then a caller posing as the Department of Treasury or FTC convinces them their accounts are compromised and they need to convert their money into gold and hand it over for safekeeping. Victims, often the elderly, have met scammers in person or sent gold by third-party carrier, sometimes under threat of arrest. The takeaway is blunt: no government official will ever ask you to hand over gold, silver, or money. United Patriot Coin has put processes in place to question suspicious orders, has saved some customers, and runs fraud-prevention software that checks IP and address mismatches on every order. The two also share what they saw at the GOALS show in Knoxville and where to find them: unitedpatriotcoin.com, the Patriot Dispatch newsletter, and their phone line.

Questions this episode answers

How do I get started buying gold and silver as a complete beginner?

United Patriot Coin runs as an education-first company, so the guidance is to start small with an affordable entry product rather than buying whatever a dealer wants to sell. The most popular starting point is the Patriot Pack, an entry-level kit built for first-time buyers.

What is the Patriot Pack and what comes in it?

The Patriot Pack is United Patriot Coin's most popular entry product, starting around a $200 price point. It includes divisible one-ounce silver rounds, one-gram silver bars, and a one-gram piece of gold in a small carry bag, designed for an affordable entry and for bartering since the pieces break into smaller amounts.

Which is easier to move in a barter situation, gold or silver, and why do small pieces cost more?

Smaller, divisible pieces are easier to use for bartering because they break down into smaller amounts. Those smaller pieces carry a higher premium because they are harder to make.

When is the best time to buy precious metals and how much should I hold?

The guests frame precious metals as a savings account and a mid-to-long-term wealth-preservation tool, not a buy-today-sell-tomorrow play, so the focus is holding for the long term rather than timing a quick flip.

How does an order ship, and are there any reporting requirements or paperwork?

Orders are mailed to your billing address after fraud verification, with FedEx requiring a signature over a certain dollar amount. There are no reporting requirements for a purchase.

Where should I store my gold and silver?

A gun safe works for most people. The guests tie it back to firearms: you protect your family with guns and your wealth with gold and silver.

What is the gold scam targeting elderly buyers, and how does it work?

It starts as a tech support scam: a pop-up tells the victim to call a fake Microsoft or official-sounding company, then a caller posing as the Department of Treasury or FTC claims their accounts are compromised and pressures them to convert their money into gold and hand it over for safekeeping. No government official will ever ask you to hand over gold, silver, or money.

Why hold precious metals instead of putting the money in the stock market?

United Patriot Coin presents metals as a savings account and a mid-to-long-term way to preserve wealth, framing the choice around stability and protecting what you have rather than short-term market gains.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet United Patriot Coin
• 00:53 — Rapid Fire questions
• 05:05 — How the business started and works
• 06:13 — Showing off the metals: 50 cal rounds and ancient coins
• 08:16 — How do I get into precious metals?
• 11:43 — Why precious metals over the stock market
• 14:32 — Shipping, storage, and reselling
• 17:58 — How much to hold and when to buy
• 20:55 — Best metals for a bartering situation
• 23:22 — The GOALS show in Knoxville
• 32:35 — Soapbox: the gold tech-support scam
• 40:58 — Fraud prevention and protecting customers
• 43:32 — Forecast for precious metals after the election
• 47:30 — Wrap-up and where to find United Patriot Coin

About the guest

Chad Burge is the general manager at United Patriot Coin, where he makes sure everything runs smoothly on all sides of the business. Clay is the company's numismatist and Director of E-Commerce, buying and selling the metals and fulfilling online orders; he has been in the market for about 30 years and has a particular interest in ancient coins. United Patriot Coin was started by brothers Scott and Glenn Hynen, who are in the agriculture industry in Kansas, and is built as an education-first company. Its sister company, United Patriot Supply, has a physical store in Seneca, Kansas, and United Patriot Coin is located in Shenandoah, Texas, north of Houston.

Key quotes

"this isn't something that you buy today and sell tomorrow. This is something that you hold on to for the long term" — Clay

"The only difference is, is, you know, the value of a dollar." — Clay

"You protect your wealth with gold and silver." — Chad Burge

"no government official or anybody will ever ask you for money for gold or silver or money or anything like that." — Chad Burge

"some people really die hard on silver. Some people really die hard on gold. It's just your preference." — Clay

A big stretch of the episode is a hands-on marketing argument. Alex says the major gun companies overpay a small pool of 'poster child' personalities and would get more by building a Rolodex of smaller creators. John, who ran marketing for an ammo company, agrees and lays out his own tiered system of creators from 1,000 to 250,000 subscribers, arguing that a stable of grateful smaller channels beats a few big names on reach, ROI, and risk. They cover the downside of betting a brand on one famous person, plus the value of giving product to garage shops that will put in 150% effort.

Competitions run through the whole conversation as the practical backbone of Alex's gun knowledge and content. He breaks down USPSA, PRS, two-gun, and NRL Hunter matches, why long range teaches you how your AR really behaves, how density altitude and wind shifts wreck your data, and the gear that helps, from Kestrels to ranging binos. The episode closes on review philosophy: Alex argues for candid, honest reviews that name a product's problems, gives examples of cans blowing up and overpriced rifles, and explains why the diverse American firearms market rewards companies that take feedback and improve.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

Why do so few firearms companies actually make their own parts in house?

Alex Costa and host John open the episode by breaking down how little of the industry actually manufactures its own components, with most brands relying on outside shops. ANR Design itself makes white-label holsters for companies including PSA, HK, SIG, FN, and Beretta, which sell under those names.

Should brands spend their marketing budget on a few big-name personalities or a stable of smaller creators?

Alex argues the major gun companies overpay a small pool of 'poster child' personalities and would get more from building a Rolodex of smaller creators. A stable of grateful smaller channels beats a few big names on reach, ROI, and risk.

What is the ROI and risk difference between sponsoring large influencers versus small ones?

John, who ran marketing for an ammo company, lays out a tiered system of creators from 1,000 to 250,000 subscribers and argues a deep stable wins on return. Betting a brand on one famous person carries real downside, while smaller garage shops will put in 150 percent effort for the product they receive.

How did ANR Design grow from pressing Kydex in a basement to making white-label holsters for major manufacturers?

Alex started pressing Kydex after college rather than pay for a custom holster, and built the company from a broke college grad in a basement into an 11-person manufacturer. ANR Design now runs a facility in Manchester, New Hampshire and makes white-label holsters for PSA, HK, SIG, FN, and Beretta.

What can shooting long-range and PRS-style competitions teach you about your everyday rifle?

Alex says competitions are the practical backbone of his gun knowledge, and long range teaches you how your AR really behaves. Factors like density altitude and wind shifts wreck your data, and gear such as Kestrels and ranging binos helps you keep up.

Why is the .40 caliber considered a mistake to pick today, and how did it get popular?

The episode walks through the .40 caliber phase and why it once caught on. It is treated as a poor choice to pick now during the show's rapid-fire run through guns and EDC decisions.

Why does Alex think honest, blunt gun reviews matter more than calling every new release the best ever?

Alex argues for candid reviews that name a product's actual problems, pointing to examples of cans blowing up and overpriced rifles. The pattern of every new gun being called the best ever is not real, and honesty serves buyers better.

What makes the American firearms market different from Europe and Asia for product innovation?

Alex calls the United States the most diverse firearms market on the planet, which rewards companies that take feedback and improve. That competitive variety pushes makers to fix problems rather than coast.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Alex Costa and ANR Design
• 01:22 — PSA and AAC sponsor gift
• 02:55 — Who actually makes their own parts
• 04:55 — Rapid fire: mistakes and EDC
• 08:58 — Lights, balance, and return to zero
• 09:43 — Most recent guns and the HK deal
• 12:40 — Aliens and odd creatures
• 14:46 — Getting into Kydex and holsters
• 18:28 — The .40 caliber phase explained
• 23:54 — What long range and PRS teach you
• 28:39 — Free state of New Hampshire
• 29:51 — Soapbox: fix the influencer model
• 31:16 — John's tiered creator system
• 41:14 — China cloning and CAD requests
• 46:25 — Why blunt, honest reviews matter
• 55:57 — American market and where to find ANR

About the guest

Alex Costa is the owner and CEO of ANR Design, a firearms equipment manufacturer he runs with business partner John Blevins. The company's main business is Kydex holsters, mag carriers, and inside-the-waistband concealment gear, with a nylon division farmed out to a partner in South Dakota and an aluminum optic-mount and gun-parts line called ANVL built by partners in Michigan. ANR Design has about 11 employees and makes white-label holsters for companies including PSA, HK, SIG, FN, and Beretta. Originally from Massachusetts, Alex grew up shooting in Boy Scouts and started pressing Kydex after college rather than pay for a custom holster. The company's manufacturing facility is in Manchester, New Hampshire. He holds a bachelor's in mechanical engineering and started an MBA before dropping out close to finishing. He shoots USPSA and two-gun and previously shot PRS competitions.

Key quotes

"Just because they have someone has a million followers on Instagram doesn't mean that their conversion rate's good." — Alex Costa

"You get someone with 10,000 followers that those people are going to beat pavement for your brand." — Alex Costa

"There's a lot that you can learn from shooting long range competitions." — Alex Costa

"If you're always just like on YouTube, all these, like, you see a gun come out, you see everyone post a new video, and it's always like, this is the best gun ever. Like, that's not real." — Alex Costa

"It's so much better ROI to have a stable between 10 to 250,000 subs and have that big stable" — John

"We are so lucky that we have the most diverse firearms market on planet Earth." — Alex Costa

The conversation gets into how AR-15s are actually made and why parts that work in one rifle fail in another. Every manufacturer builds to a set of specs, and Cox explains that mixing a barrel from one company with a bolt carrier group from another often creates tolerance stacking, not a defective part. Because Cox Arms machines to its own tolerances, the EMR (every man's rifle) ships as a solid $1,100 foundation gun with the upgrades most owners add later already included. Cox also makes the case that with the House, Senate, and presidency in hand, gun owners have roughly a year to be vocal before the next Senate race takes over, and he points to GOA's email alerts and pre-filled letter form as the low-effort way to stay in the fight.

The second half is Cox's soapbox. On the ATF, his complaint is a holier-than-thou double standard and a lack of consistent training: the agency loses guns with no consequences but will shut down a 50-year family shop over paperwork, and inspectors won't put their answers in writing. He and John trace how financial pressure after Fast and Furious pushed banks like Chase to close gun businesses' loans and personal accounts, and how cities now sue mom-and-pop shops as public nuisances. His sharpest frustration is social media advertising: a federally legal firearms business can't boost a post, while THC products advertise freely, and platforms hide behind world policies set by countries that don't share American rights.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

Why did Michael Cox leave the brick-and-mortar gun business to start manufacturing his own AR-15s?

After about 15 years running a dealership in Queen Creek, Arizona, Cox watched rifle quality fall while prices climbed during COVID, with some guns falling apart in the box. He decided he could do it better and give customers what they actually pay for or more.

What does Cox Arms do differently in its quality control compared to bigger manufacturers?

Cox checks every part by hand and throws away product that most shops would still sell, working from one rule: if it's not right, it's not right. He would rather a customer wait a couple extra weeks than receive a gun he isn't confident in.

What is the EMR, and what comes included on it?

The EMR (every man's rifle) is a roughly $1,100 foundation AR-15 from Cox Arms. It ships with the upgrades most owners add later already built in, because the company machines to its own tolerances.

Why does a barrel or bolt carrier group work in one rifle but fail in another?

Every manufacturer builds to its own set of specs, so mixing a barrel from one company with a bolt carrier group from another often causes tolerance stacking rather than a defective part. Cox Arms machines to its own tolerances to avoid that mismatch.

What does Cox Arms' lifetime guarantee actually cover?

Cox backs every firearm with a lifetime guarantee that ignores whose fault the damage was. It stands behind the gun regardless of how it got broken.

Why does Michael Cox say gun owners only have about a year to act after winning the House, Senate, and presidency?

Cox argues that with all three in hand, gun owners have roughly a year to be vocal before the next Senate race takes over the agenda. He points to Gun Owners of America's email alerts and pre-filled letter form as the low-effort way to stay in the fight.

What are Michael Cox's biggest frustrations with how the ATF treats firearms dealers?

Cox describes a holier-than-thou double standard and inconsistent training: the agency loses guns with no consequences but will shut a 50-year family shop over paperwork. He also faults inspectors for refusing to put their answers in writing.

Why can't a federally legal firearms business advertise on social media when THC products can?

Cox notes that a federally legal firearms business cannot even boost a post while THC products advertise freely. He says platforms hide behind world policies set by countries that do not share American rights.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Intro and meeting Michael Cox
• 00:31 — Why COVID pushed him to build better guns
• 02:39 — Rapid fire questions
• 05:10 — Attention to detail and the throwaway pile
• 07:05 — Quality, lifetime guarantee, and shot-out barrels
• 12:09 — Lead times and putting his name on the gun
• 13:59 — The EMR, every man's rifle
• 17:31 — Specs, tolerance stacking, and mixed parts
• 20:06 — A year to be vocal after the election
• 23:25 — Soapbox: the ATF double standard
• 32:18 — Fast and Furious and banks closing accounts
• 33:17 — Mom-and-pop shops under attack
• 41:02 — Social media bans and advertising firearms
• 50:18 — Where to find Cox Arms and dealer packet

About the guest

Michael Cox is the founder of Cox Arms USA, a small manufacturer specializing in the AR-15 platform. Before starting the company, he ran a brick-and-mortar firearms dealership for about 15 years in Queen Creek, Arizona. He started building rifles after watching firearm quality drop and prices rise during COVID, deciding he could give customers more than they paid for. He hand Cerakotes his rifles, backs them with a lifetime guarantee, and launched the EMR (every man's rifle) as a foundation gun. He is a Marine.

Key quotes

"we can give the customer what they actually pay for or more." — Michael Cox

"in life, there's a lot of gray area, but there's. To me, there's never gray area in right or wrong. It's either right or it's wrong. There is no in between." — Michael Cox

"I would rather you wait an extra couple of weeks, you know, to get your gun and know that I did my best to give you that gun" — Michael Cox

"we're all manufacturing to a set of specs." — Michael Cox

"I'd rather be paranoid and keep my business than give them any ammunition to put me out of business" — Michael Cox

"You're an American company doing business in America with Americans, so deal with it." — Michael Cox

The conversation covers the 2019 "name our gun" campaign that produced the Yeet Cannon, the wider MKS lineup including Full Forge Gear and Inland Manufacturing's reproduction M1 carbines, and the loss of Barnaul ammunition after the Biden administration's action on imported Russian ammo. Dave details the scramble to bring in ammo on two-year import licenses, the rumor of a Russian-government seizure at port once the war in Ukraine started, and why building a new imported-ammo relationship is slow and risky. He defends steel-case ammo as solid and explains why Hi-Point won't chase a stainless slide or a Browning tilt-lock action that would price the gun out of reach.

In the Soapbox segment, Dave's take is a warning against complacency. He's a longtime Trump supporter, but his message is that the government is still not your friend, and gun owners need to stay vigilant at the state level even under a friendly federal administration. He and John point to Colorado's ammo tax, a Memphis AR-ban lawsuit, and background-check problems in Washington, and urge listeners to contact lawmakers through GOA's site to push bills like the Hearing Protection Act and national reciprocity. They close on Hi-Point's lifetime warranty, the gun found with 32 to 34 rounds of .45 stacked in the barrel, why most torture tests are pointless, and the new pistol-format carbines (995P, 4595P, 1095P) dropping at SHOT Show.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

What is Hi-Point Firearms, and is it one company or a brand made up of several?

Hi-Point is a brand, not a single company. It is built on several outfits working together, with MKS Supply handling marketing and distribution and separate manufacturers producing the firearms.

Which companies make Hi-Point products, and where are the guns actually produced?

Strassell's Machine produces most of the firearms, Haskell Manufacturing makes the .45 and now the .40 handgun, and Mid Ohio Graphics handles the hydro dipping, while MKS Supply manages marketing and distribution.

Is the myth true that each Hi-Point gun is made in a separate facility to avoid lawsuits?

No. Dave knocks down that myth, explaining Hi-Point is a real manufacturer that has been around 35 years and carries insurance, not a setup designed to dodge liability.

How did the Yeet Cannon get its name, and what happened with the customer naming campaign?

The Yeet Cannon name came out of Hi-Point's 2019 'name our gun' campaign, in which customers were invited to name the firearm.

What other brands and products fall under MKS Supply besides Hi-Point?

The wider MKS Supply lineup includes Full Forge Gear and Inland Manufacturing's reproduction M1 carbines, alongside the Hi-Point brand.

What happened to Barnaul ammunition, and why did Hi-Point lose that line?

Hi-Point lost Barnaul ammunition after the Biden administration's action on imported Russian ammo, which forced a scramble to bring in ammo on two-year import licenses, complicated by a reported port seizure once the war in Ukraine began.

Why won't Hi-Point switch to a stainless steel slide or a different action to make a lighter gun?

Hi-Point won't chase a stainless slide or a Browning tilt-lock action because those changes would price the gun out of reach, and the goal has always been to make a firearm everyone can afford.

What is Dave's warning to gun owners about complacency under a friendly administration?

Dave, a longtime Trump supporter, warns that the government is still not your friend, urging gun owners to stay vigilant at the state level and contact lawmakers through Gun Owners of America even under a friendly federal administration.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet Dave from Hi-Point
• 01:25 — Rapid fire: impulse buys and aliens
• 03:31 — Home defense and the lever gun
• 05:11 — Most realistic firearms movie
• 07:02 — Is Die Hard a Christmas movie
• 07:50 — Who and what is Hi-Point
• 09:00 — Debunking the Hi-Point myths
• 11:19 — The 2019 Yeet Cannon naming campaign
• 14:21 — Full Forge Gear and Inland carbines
• 18:42 — Losing Barnaul and imported ammo
• 24:02 — The risk of unknown import brands
• 30:31 — Warranty and rounds stacked in the barrel
• 34:11 — Soapbox: don't get complacent
• 41:03 — Illinois and the melting-point law
• 45:18 — Torture tests and the C9 target story
• 48:46 — Prepper stockpiles and Ursula's high points
• 52:01 — New pistol-format carbines at SHOT

About the guest

Dave represents Hi-Point Firearms and has worked with the brand for about 15 years. He works for MKS Supply, the marketing and distribution company behind the Hi-Point brand, and deals with writers, media people, and end-user customers on social media and by phone. He is known in some industry circles as "Handsome Dave" and is associated with Hi-Point's "Yeet Cannon."

Key quotes

"High Point isn't even. I should say it's a brand. It's not a single company." — Dave

"We're, we're. We're a real manufacturer. We carry insurance" — Dave

"We wouldn't still be in existence making crap, you know, if for 35 years" — Dave

"This Trump admin could be the best thing we've ever had, and I think it will be. But they are still not your friend." — Dave

"Now is not the time to become complacent. Now is the time to actually push these people that you elected to do what they said" — John

"And that's always been the goal, to make a gun that everybody can afford." — Dave

"if you come up to me and tell me you want to intentionally destroy my product, I'm gonna tell you to take a hike." — Dave

Ton breaks down Firebird's reactive targets in plain terms. You peel it, stick it to steel, and shoot it. There is no mixing, no permits, and no licenses, and the minimum safe distance is 50 feet so objects do not come back at the shooter at ballistic speeds. He walks through the line: the 50mm and 65mm bio targets at a full 145 decibels, the moderated M50 and M65 versions at 65 decibels for suppressor and sound-sensitive use, an IR version for night vision shooting, and a new signal marker puck that throws a colored chalk plume in nine colors. The targets render inert if anyone tries to break or compound them, which keeps bad actors from taking them further. The goal he repeats is responsible, safe fun that grows the sport instead of injuring it, a direct contrast to the 10-pound exploding-target videos that get the industry legislated.

The back half gets spicy. As a California native, Ton argues the state was once a hunting and fishing paradise before people from other states moved in and changed how it votes. He then turns to Hollywood, where he refused to be anti-gun his whole career. His claim: the same people who trashed gun owners in groups would privately pull him aside and ask how to buy a gun without their friends or the government knowing, convinced they were the only ones responsible enough to own one. The episode closes on the Alec Baldwin shooting, where Ton makes the case that on a film set the armorer, not the actor, owns firearm safety, so an actor who fires a gun he was handed is not the one at fault. He contrasts that with his own sets, where eight years of Auction Hunters filming ran without a single injury because he put human life over getting the shot.

Links

• www.gunowners.org
• www.blackoutcoffee.com
• patriotmobile.com

Questions this episode answers

What is a Firebird reactive target and how do you use one?

Firebird makes peel-and-stick reactive targets you attach to steel and shoot, with no mixing, permits, or licenses required. The minimum safe distance is 50 feet so debris does not come back at the shooter at ballistic speeds.

Why do Firebird targets not require a license, permit, or mixing the way other exploding targets do?

Unlike the heavy exploding-target mixes that get the industry legislated, Firebird targets work with no mixing and no permits or licenses. They also render inert if anyone tries to break or compound them, which keeps bad actors from taking them further.

What are the moderated and IR versions of Firebird targets for?

The moderated M50 and M65 targets fire at 65 decibels for suppressor and sound-sensitive use, versus 145 decibels on the standard 50mm and 65mm bio targets. The IR version is built for shooting with night vision.

Why does Ton Jones say the rest of America 'ruined' California?

As a California native, Ton Jones argues the state was once a hunting and fishing paradise. He says people who moved in from other states changed how it votes and pushed it away from that gun-friendly culture.

Are there pro-gun gun owners in Hollywood, and why won't most of them say it out loud?

Ton Jones says the same people who trashed gun owners in groups would privately ask him how to buy a gun without their friends or the government knowing. Each was convinced they were the only one responsible enough to own one, so none would admit it publicly.

Whose job is firearm safety on a film set, the actor or the armorer?

Ton Jones argues the armorer, not the actor, owns firearm safety on a film set. The actor's job is to act out the scene with the gun, while the armorer is responsible for making sure it is safe.

Why does Ton Jones argue the Alec Baldwin shooting was not the actor's fault?

Because on a set the armorer owns firearm safety, Ton Jones makes the case that an actor who fires a gun he was handed is not the one at fault. The responsibility for the weapon's condition sits with the armorer, not the performer.

How did Ton Jones run firearm safety on Auction Hunters without an injury in eight years?

Ton Jones says eight years of filming Auction Hunters ran without a single injury because the crew was meticulous and put human life over getting the shot. As he frames it, he would rather be overkill than on the way to the hospital with a kill.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome and meet Ton Jones
• 01:25 — Rapid Fire: pizza, Bigfoot, and impulse buys
• 05:23 — Go-to home defense gun
• 07:00 — What Firebird Targets makes
• 10:10 — The new nine-color signal marker
• 11:20 — Reactive targets under clay pigeons
• 14:14 — Why design for safety, not destruction
• 18:57 — From the Soapbox: what happened to California
• 29:48 — Hollywood's closet gun owners
• 37:48 — Pro-gun actors and casting agendas
• 45:37 — The Alec Baldwin shooting and the armorer's job
• 52:05 — Safety on the Auction Hunters set
• 56:13 — Sponsor thanks and where to find Firebird

About the guest

Ton Jones is the Director of Operations and Marketing Director at Firebird Targets, where he makes reactive targets. He has worked in the film and television industry since 1996, on or behind the scenes of shows including Auction Hunters, Man vs Wild, Ink Master, Shark Week, Nat Geo Speed of Life, and a survival show called Darkness, and has done work on music videos for artists including Toby Keith and Slash. He is a California native, born and raised in Southern California. He holds his own FFL and keeps a small firearms collection. He says he was on Auction Hunters for eight years of filming. He can be found as Tun Jones Official on Instagram.

Key quotes

"You peel it, stick it and shoot it." — Ton Jones

"We're not going to design something that's going to detonate other devices at ballistic speeds which can cause death." — Ton Jones

"And that's the whole purpose, to grow the sport, not injure the sport." — Ton Jones

"None of them want their friends to know, but all of them want to buy a gun because they think they're the only one responsible enough to own a firearm." — Ton Jones

"The job of the actor is to act out a scene with the gun." — Ton Jones

"I would rather be overkill than on the way to the hospital with a kill." — Ton Jones

"we didn't have an injury because we were meticulous and we cared about human life over getting a shot." — Ton Jones

The conversation digs into the reality of building optics. There is no standard footprint across the industry, the small red-dot envelope means heavy overlap in styling, and Jordan says the real innovation right now is making products better, faster, and cheaper than five years ago. He describes an in-house quality process where every unit gets checked coming in and going out, backed by a lifetime warranty. The spicy topic is the gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy. Jordan and John trade examples, from oddball calibers and a 10mm part to the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, and the Liberty pen gun, to make the point that the market punishes risk even while everyone demands cool new products. Companies have to put their R&D dollars where the money actually is.

The middle of the episode turns to policy. Jordan was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024, with a ruling he expected around May or June 2025. He and John walk through the ripple effect: a broadly written rule that starts with 80% frames can reach forgings, the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, and eventually every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who think it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does. They push the grassroots message hard, contacting representatives at the local, state, and federal levels, and argue that gun rights are not a single-party issue. They close on the firearms community itself, which looks large but is small and tight-knit, and on the idea that the people behind the brands and the cameras are just regular people worth approaching.

Questions this episode answers

How did Gideon Optics get started, and why did the team move from firearm parts into optics?

Jordan started about 11 years ago selling parts at gun shows and online under JSD Supply, then moved into optics after the laws on privately made firearm parts began to change. He wanted a less politically charged line and chose optics over a knife company, with Mike Branson doing the reticle and technical work.

What is the Omega, and why is it Gideon's top seller?

The Omega is a large circular competition-style red dot priced in the low two hundreds. It is the top seller because that price lets newer shooters try a pistol optic without spending around $700.

Is there a standard footprint across pistol optics, and where is the industry headed on that?

There is no standard footprint across the optics industry. The small red-dot envelope also means heavy overlap in styling from one product to the next.

What does real innovation look like in the optics space right now?

Jordan says the real innovation today is making products better, faster, and cheaper than they were five years ago, rather than reinventing the form. Companies have to put their R&D dollars where the money actually is.

What is Gideon's warranty and quality-control process?

Gideon runs an in-house quality process where every unit is checked coming in and going out. That process is backed by a lifetime warranty.

What was the Vanderstock case about, and when did Jordan expect a Supreme Court ruling?

The Vanderstock case challenged the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule, and Jordan was involved and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. He expected a ruling around May or June 2025.

How would a broadly written ATF frame-and-receiver rule affect manufacturers who don't make 80% frames?

Jordan argues a rule written broadly enough to start with 80% frames can reach forgings and the modular grip module on a SIG P320 or P365, eventually touching every manufacturer. The recurring theme is that gun owners who assume it doesn't affect them learn too late that it does.

Why does the industry struggle to innovate when customers keep asking for new products?

There is a gap between what customers say they want and what they actually buy, so risky products like the Taurus Curve, the folding Glock, the Hudson, or the Liberty pen gun often fall flat. The market punishes risk, which forces companies to spend their R&D dollars where the money actually is.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Intro and AAC ammo gift
• 01:25 — Rapid fire with Blackout Coffee
• 03:31 — How Gideon Optics started
• 05:47 — The Omega and the price-point play
• 06:37 — Why there's no standard footprint
• 07:49 — GOA's first convention and the community
• 09:58 — Importing, QC, and lifetime warranty
• 12:52 — Where the real innovation is now
• 13:37 — Post-election push and grassroots
• 17:53 — Soapbox: the Vanderstock case
• 19:34 — The ripple effect on every maker
• 26:49 — Gun rights aren't a one-party issue
• 36:17 — Spicy topic: what customers say vs buy
• 55:54 — Just people, and where to find Gideon

About the guest

Jordan is with Gideon Optics and a few other brands. He started in the firearms industry about 11 years ago, selling parts at gun shows and online, and his original business and brand was JSD Supply. He carries a SIG P365 with a Patmos Arms slide, which he names as one of their brands, and his company runs a couple of series of gun shows around the country. Gideon Optics has been out to retail for about two years, and he says he will turn 40 in a couple of weeks. He was involved in the Vanderstock case over the ATF's frame-and-receiver rule and attended the Supreme Court oral arguments on October 8, 2024. [Last name heard as 'Vinro' in the auto-generated transcript; spelling unverified — VERIFY]

Key quotes

"So we wanted to get into something that was less politically charged." — Jordan

"The innovation right now is being able to make the product better, faster and cheaper than even five years ago." — Jordan

"Gun rights don't have a letter next to them." — John

"So we need to bring everybody together when it comes to the 2A." — Jordan

"So they think that they want some whiz bang something so somebody makes it and it falls flat." — Jordan

The heart of the episode is how PSA controls its own destiny. The company makes about 95 percent of its guns internally, from the raw forgings all the way to the complete gun, including its own impact-extruded buffer tubes and an in-house anodizing line. Cameron explains why COVID made that vertical integration matter: PSA was building 3,500 uppers a day and they would all be gone the next morning, and you can't move that volume if your parts are stuck at an outside anodizer. The senior management team meets every morning at 9 to review every single repair that came in the day before, and Cameron reads every YouTube comment about PSA before bed and checks Reddit first thing each morning to feed real customer feedback back into product decisions.

The back half turns to politics from the Soapbox. With Trump reelected and a Republican House and Senate, Cameron and John argue the industry has a narrow window, really one year before reelection season, to push for real change on the Hughes Amendment and the NFA, suppressors, SBRs, and national reciprocity, with a call out to the Hearing Protection and SHUSH acts. Both push a high-tide-raises-all-boats message: drop the ego and the digs, do co-branded work, and bring new people into the firearms world instead of gatekeeping. Cameron frames PSA's website as its most powerful asset because it sells everyone's products, not only its own, and closes with a teaser about a six-foot glass case ordered for next SHOT Show built to hold a single gun.

Questions this episode answers

How did Cameron Tapler work his way up at Palmetto State Armory over nine years?

Cameron started at PSA about nine years ago as a compliance manager in manufacturing, then moved through corporate compliance over the company's FFLs, two years in quality control, and running the manufacturing floor as plant manager before being promoted into branding and product management.

Why is Palmetto State Armory so open and transparent about its products and timelines?

Cameron says PSA wants to be an open book because it owes customers the truth, so it posts product updates once or twice a month and tells people honestly when a project stalls rather than going quiet.

How does PSA let customers vote on which prototype guns get made?

PSA shows prototype guns at SHOT Show and lets customers vote on which ones it should actually build, feeding that demand directly into its product decisions.

Why did PSA shelve the STG44 project?

Cameron explains PSA shelved the STG44 because the juice wasn't worth the squeeze, and he points to it as an example of setting real expectations and telling customers the truth when a project doesn't pan out.

What does it mean that PSA makes about 95 percent of its guns in house?

PSA produces roughly 95 percent of its guns internally, from raw forgings all the way to the complete firearm, including its own impact-extruded buffer tubes and an in-house anodizing line. That vertical integration lets the company control its own destiny.

How did COVID change the way PSA approached manufacturing and vertical integration?

During COVID PSA was building about 3,500 uppers a day that sold out overnight, and Cameron says you can't move that volume if your parts are stuck at an outside anodizer, which is why owning the process end to end mattered.

What does PSA's senior management team review every morning at 9?

PSA's senior management meets every morning at 9 to go through every single repair that came in the day before, and Cameron also reads YouTube comments and checks Reddit to feed real customer feedback back into product decisions.

Why do Cameron and the hosts say the industry has only about one year to push for changes to gun laws?

With Trump reelected and a Republican House and Senate, Cameron and John argue the industry has a narrow window, really about a year before reelection season, to push for real change on issues like the Hughes Amendment and the National Firearms Act.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Welcome to season two and meet Cameron from PSA
• 00:17 — Cameron's nine-year path from compliance to director
• 01:34 — PSA sponsors the podcast and supports GOA
• 03:47 — Rapid Fire questions, pizza and EDC
• 06:04 — The micro dagger and home defense setup
• 10:36 — Why PSA decided to be an open book
• 11:54 — Letting customers vote on prototypes at SHOT Show
• 14:45 — Making 95 percent of parts in house
• 16:02 — How COVID forced vertical integration
• 18:39 — Reviewing every repair every morning at 9
• 22:02 — Shelving the STG44 and setting real expectations
• 28:40 — From the Soapbox, unity and the one-year window
• 34:23 — The Hughes Amendment, suppressors and reciprocity
• 40:42 — Co-branding over ego and a SHOT Show teaser

About the guest

Cameron is the Director of Branding and Product Management at Palmetto State Armory, where he is over the company's product lines, product requirements, and business cases, as well as its branding, content, and social media. He has been with Palmetto State Armory for going on nine years, starting as a compliance manager in manufacturing, then handling corporate compliance over the company's FFLs, working in quality control for two years, running the manufacturing floor as plant manager, and being promoted to brand manager. He is originally from outside Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, and moved to South Carolina in 2010. His handle is Cameron Tapler on all platforms.

Key quotes

"We make 95 of our guns internally" — Cameron

"we want to be an open book for people" — Cameron

"I felt like we owed our customers the truth" — Cameron

"I want people to buy a firearm and I want them to train with it" — Cameron

"Everybody likes hamburger or hot dogs, but nobody wants to see how they're made" — John

"if you're not innovating or doing something unique, you're not going to survive" — Cameron

"The pie is big enough, we can all get a slice of it" — John

Crump explains how he works a story. AmmoLand would rather be right than first, so he verifies a leak through three independent contacts and won't publish until he can confirm it 100 percent, a process that can take weeks. He says about 80 to 90 percent of what he researches turns out to be nothing. He has written over a thousand articles, keeps his contacts memorized in his head rather than on a computer, and is currently a year into one story that still isn't ready. He also walks through the Freedom of Information Act, encouraging listeners to file a FOIA just to learn the process, and explains how to write a request specific enough to get real documents without being buried in paperwork.

The back half turns to censorship and platform suppression. Drawing on his former job at Meta, Crump describes a Silicon Valley that leans so far left it doesn't realize it, with capitalism as its real lifeblood. He argues the pressure on YouTube and Google comes largely from Democrats in Congress, and that platforms censor to protect Section 230 protections and avoid being broken up as a monopoly. His answer to shadow banning and down boosting is organic reach: share the articles and videos directly so the audience becomes the conduit. He's skeptical YouTube will ease up but sees Rumble as a real alternative because it's an open platform, not firearm centric like Full30 or GunStreamer. He closes on apathy as the 2A community's biggest weakness, pointing to roughly 10 million unregistered gun owners who, if they registered, would be the most powerful voting bloc in the country.

Questions this episode answers

What was the auto keycard case, and why does John Crump call it a travesty?

The ATF prosecuted two people over a card printed with an outline of a lightning link. The dimensions were wrong, the agency could not get the card to convert anything into a machine gun, and almost no mainstream outlet was covering it.

Why did the ATF try to get a gag order on a journalist, and how was it defeated?

After Crump reported on the auto keycard case, the ATF filed a motion for a gag order to stop him from reporting further. Gun Owners of America stepped in to defend him, and the agency withdrew the motion once his attorney began arguing it in court.

How did GOA and attorney Steven Stambolia get the ATF's motion withdrawn?

Crump's lawyer Steven Stambolia found the gag-order motion buried in the case documents, and Gun Owners of America backed the defense. Stambolia flew to the Middle District of Florida, and the ATF withdrew the motion once he started his argument.

How does AmmoLand verify a leak before publishing a story?

AmmoLand would rather be right than first, so Crump confirms a leak through three independent contacts and won't publish until he is 100 percent sure, a process that can take weeks. He says 80 to 90 percent of what he researches turns out to be nothing.

How do you file a FOIA request without getting buried in paperwork?

Crump encourages filing a Freedom of Information Act request just to learn the process, and explains how to write a request specific enough to return real documents instead of an unmanageable flood of paperwork.

Why do platforms like Meta, YouTube, and Google censor Second Amendment content?

Drawing on his time at Meta, Crump argues much of the pressure on YouTube and Google comes from Democrats in Congress, and that platforms censor to protect their Section 230 protections and avoid being broken up as a monopoly.

Is Rumble a real alternative to YouTube for gun content, and why?

Crump is skeptical YouTube will ease up but sees Rumble as a real alternative because it is an open platform, not firearm-centric like Full30 or GunStreamer. His fix for shadow banning is organic reach, sharing articles and videos directly so the audience becomes the conduit.

What is the biggest weakness of the 2A community, and what can fix it?

Crump says apathy is the Second Amendment community's biggest weakness. He points to roughly 10 million unregistered gun owners who, if they registered to vote, would be the most powerful voting bloc in the country.

Chapters

• 00:00 — Meet John Crump of AmmoLand
• 00:54 — Rapid fire: carry, bucket list, Glock vs 1911
• 03:21 — Print articles vs video, and why both matter
• 06:16 — The ATF tries to silence a journalist
• 08:43 — Citizen journalists and a gag order on YouTube
• 11:57 — Inside the auto keycard case
• 13:40 — Why sites like AmmoLand exist
• 16:55 — Verifying a leak through three contacts
• 20:18 — How to file a FOIA request
• 24:32 — Soapbox: beating suppression with organic reach
• 27:38 — Inside Meta and Silicon Valley's politics
• 30:18 — Section 230, monopoly fears, and the bottom line
• 33:50 — Moving to Rumble and X
• 40:04 — Apathy and the sleeping giant of gun voters

About the guest

John Crump is a writer for AmmoLand who covers laws, court cases, and government leaks, reporting on anyone who wants to infringe on the right to bear arms. He is a credentialed journalist and a member of several journalism outfits, and has written over a thousand articles. He has been cited in the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times. He previously worked for Meta (formerly Facebook). He lives right outside D.C. He also runs a personal YouTube channel, John Crump New, and hosts a podcast, John Crump Live, recorded Monday through Thursday at 5pm Eastern.

Key quotes

"Basically I report on anyone that wants to infringe on anyone's right to bear arms." — John Crump

"We would rather be right than first." — John Crump

"There is no official credentials in the United States to be a journalist." — John Crump

"The way to beat that is through organic reach is to share the articles, to share the videos with people." — John Crump

"I think as a 2A community we have a lot of apathy. I think that is our biggest weakness there." — John Crump

"If those gun owners registered to vote, they would be the most powerful voting bloc in the country." — John Crump