Software ownership and digital sovereignty are the tech nobody talks about. Are we digital tenants? After forty years in software development, Fatima is blunt: if you do not own your code, you rent your business, and free software is the way out.

She started at seventeen. She is sixty now. Multinationals, software houses, her own company. In this episode of The Upgrade Zone, Daniel Chrzastek asks her how AI actually got here, why language models make things up, and what it costs a business to stay a digital tenant instead of a digital owner.

Subscribe for more conversations with business owners about the tools and decisions behind their businesses.

If you run your business on tech somebody else controls, and almost all of us do, this one is for you. Software ownership and digital sovereignty are about to matter far more than they did.

WHAT WE COVER

- How computing got here: switches, punched cards, assembly, and AI as the newest layer

- Why AI failed for decades, and the researcher who worked out the algorithms were starving

- How large language models came out of email autocomplete

- Why models hallucinate, explained through a scholar who never left the library

- The cloud is just someone else's computer

- Digital sovereignty: whose data, whose machines, whose AI?

- Free as in freedom, not free as in beer

- Permission to use software is not the same as the right to use it

- The CAD file test: if a third party owns your drawings, you cannot build next year's car

- Why almost no business runs Linux, and what that tells you

- Built it on no-code? What to do before it breaks

- Why the first version is supposed to be bad

- Calculating the return on a software change

- Computing power is becoming cheaper than labour

LINES WORTH STICKING AROUND FOR

"They give you a permission to use it, not the right. You only have rights when you have the code."

"They have read the whole internet. Have they lived? No. So they tend to hallucinate."

"I started when I was 17. I'm 60 now. I'm an insider."

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 Cold open

00:00:21 Meet Fatima: forty years in software

00:01:33 Where the technology is actually going

00:02:06 Computing as layers, from switches to languages

00:03:42 Why early AI failed

00:05:03 The web, and a change of scale

00:06:39 Fei-Fei Li: the algorithms weren't broken, they were starving

00:08:29 From email autocomplete to large language models

00:11:53 Hallucinations, and the scholar who never left the library

00:14:04 Spatial models, self-driving and the next frontier

00:15:20 Drones, jamming and fibre-optic control

00:16:41 The efficiency race, and running AI on your own machine

00:19:34 The cloud is just someone else's computer

00:20:58 Digital sovereignty and AI sovereignty

00:22:31 The £63bn digital skills gap

00:23:46 Free as in freedom, not free as in beer

00:26:04 The executable trap

00:27:49 Permission to use is not a right

00:29:11 Owning the code when you outsource the build

00:30:36 The CAD file test: who owns your drawings?

00:31:48 Why almost nobody runs Linux

00:33:28 "I started at 17, I'm 60 now, I'm an insider"

00:34:42 Owner or tenant across three parallel worlds

00:36:31 How Microsoft got rich printing licences

00:36:58 The tools Fatima's team actually uses

00:37:42 Three levels of privacy, and who has the key

00:39:51 Diagnosis before prescription

00:40:36 When you don't need custom software at all

00:42:57 Code older than the developers maintaining it

00:44:55 Community question: built it on no-code, now what?

00:48:04 Why the first version is supposed to be bad

00:52:06 Rebuilding it properly, and owning it this time

00:54:34 Fifteen seconds, times a hundred thousand people

00:55:58 Computing power is becoming cheaper than labour

00:57:12 Where to find Fatima

ABOUT FATIMA

Fatima is a software developer and entrepreneur with more than forty years in the industry. She started at seventeen and has worked across multinationals, software companies and small businesses, as well as running her own. Her career spans PCs, IBM i systems, the web, mobile, a decade in blockchain and the last five years in AI. She works with startups and medium-sized companies across the UK and Europe, and she is a long-standing advocate of free software, not because it is cheap, but because it comes with the code.

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fatima-maldonado-me/

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: https://theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

Support the show:

https://buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

#SoftwareOwnership #DigitalSovereignty #OpenSource #AIExplained #TheUpgradeZone

Rakesh Makwana is a brand designer and art director with more than two decades in the industry, helping founders and business owners build visual identities that actually connect with the people they're trying to reach. In this episode of The Upgrade Zone, Daniel Chrzastek talks to him about what a brand really is, how his discovery process works, where AI fits into a design studio, and why he never tries to convince a client to hire him.

Subscribe for more conversations with UK business owners about the tools and decisions behind their businesses. If you're building a brand, running a service business, or trying to work out why some companies just feel more trustworthy than others, this one is for you.

WHAT WE COVER

• Growing up in a family of makers, and discovering design at seven
• Being diagnosed with dyslexia, and reframing it as a creative advantage
• Why a brand is not your logo: Marty Neumeier's "gut feeling" definition
• The kickoff call, and why it's an assessment for both sides
• Turning down clients when the budget or the fit isn't right
• What actually happens in a brand discovery session
• Presenting two "stylescapes" before any design work begins
• Why two design concepts beat five
• Why Rakesh stopped designing logos on their own
• Using AI for copywriting and pressure-testing ideas, without letting it flatter him
• The tech stack and freelance network behind a one-person design studio
• Handling rejection, knowing your value, and never justifying your price

LINES WORTH STICKING AROUND FOR

"It's not what you say about your brand to be true. It's the gut feeling of the person who perceives you."

"I was very ashamed and embarrassed about being dyslexic because I saw it as a weakness. But for many years now, I see it as a superpower."

"It's not AI taking over your jobs. It's people that are not using it."

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 Introduction

00:00:25 Welcoming Rakesh back to the show

00:01:04 Meet Rakesh Makwana, brand designer and art director

00:02:12 Growing up in a family of makers

00:02:57 Dyslexia, and finding his language in design

00:04:06 Studying graphic design at college and university

00:07:34 From hand-drawn design to the first iMac

00:08:08 Chasing trends before finding design thinking

00:09:31 Why business owners underestimate their own visual identity

00:11:12 Marty Neumeier and the real definition of a brand

00:12:08 Consistency, recall and emotional connection

00:13:10 Colour psychology and what it signals

00:13:41 The discovery process before any design begins

00:15:07 Benchmarking competitors to understand the landscape

00:15:29 How much clients actually know about what they want

00:18:07 Handling friction and misaligned expectations

00:19:17 Building user personas and a brand's DNA

00:19:43 Stylescapes: presenting two directions before designing

00:21:15 Rakesh's end-to-end business process

00:23:27 Qualifying budget before writing a proposal

00:25:16 Taking 50% upfront before discovery begins

00:26:15 Inside the discovery workshop

00:29:06 Why two design concepts beat five

00:30:05 How long a rebrand typically takes

00:31:13 Why Rakesh stopped designing "just logos"

00:33:41 Being a dyslexic, colourblind graphic designer

00:34:52 Using AI for copywriting and articulating ideas

00:38:07 Full AI versus human-first design

00:40:26 Prompting AI to challenge you, not praise you

00:42:45 Why real client feedback beats AI validation

00:45:21 The core tech stack: Adobe Creative Cloud

00:47:03 Google Drive as the central hub for files

00:49:10 Running solo and bringing in freelance support

00:52:27 Community question: dealing with rejection

00:54:55 The value of expertise, and never justifying your price

00:56:05 Community question: measuring rebrand success

01:00:03 Visual identity vs verbal identity

01:01:12 Where to find Rakesh

01:01:43 Final thought: perception is the real brand

Connect with Rakesh

Instagram: @rak.i.am

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

Support the show:

buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

#BrandDesign #BrandIdentity #SmallBusinessUK #GraphicDesign #TheUpgradeZone

Alex started his joinery apprenticeship in 2008. Seventeen years on he prices, designs and delivers bespoke joinery on his own terms. In this episode of The Upgrade Zone, Daniel Chrzastek asks him how a joinery business actually makes money: pricing, deposits, 3D modelling, outsourcing, and the new website that brought in an enquiry inside the first week.

Subscribe for more conversations with UK business owners about the tools and decisions behind their businesses.

If you run a trade business, a service business, or anything where you sell your own skill and time, this one is for you.

WHAT WE COVER

- Starting a joinery apprenticeship in 2008, straight out of school

- The December 2010 health scare that changed everything

- The questions Alex asks to spot a difficult client before he quotes

- Taking 50% upfront or the full material cost, whichever is higher

- Scope creep, and the work clients never see

- SketchUp and CAD: modelling a job before you cut a single board

- FreeAgent, NatWest and the Excel sheet that turns an enquiry into a quote

- When outsourcing admin to a virtual assistant starts to make sense

- A £36,000 quote against rivals at £11,000 and £12,000, and what the drawings revealed

- Quoting for hours, then hearing nothing back

- Organic SEO, Google reviews and a lead in week one with zero ad spend

LINES WORTH STICKING AROUND FOR

"People want Prada but only want to pay Primark."

"It's £20 for the hammer and £9,980 for the experience."

"You do all this work, send the price off, and you don't hear back. Not even a sorry."

CHAPTERS

00:00:00 Introduction

00:00:33 Meet Alex Meadows and AM Joinery

00:01:00 Where the idea of running a business began

00:03:49 Starting the joinery apprenticeship in 2008

00:05:10 December 2010: the health scare that changed everything

00:08:36 Cycling, purpose and the Geneva to Milan ride

00:11:49 Spotting a difficult client before you quote

00:15:57 Budget, materials and what a job actually costs

00:20:03 Prada money, Primark budget

00:22:55 Deposits: 50% or materials cost, whichever is higher

00:27:15 Scope creep and absorbing the small extras

00:28:15 Reviews, quality and reputation

00:31:49 Testing the work before the client ever sees it

00:33:54 AI, rendering and helping clients picture the finished job

00:39:30 SketchUp, CAD and modelling before you cut

00:45:07 Learning the craft on someone else's payroll

00:47:26 Registering AM Joinery on 23 September

00:49:52 "Why are you so expensive?" and the £20 hammer

00:51:24 The tech stack: FreeAgent, NatWest and Excel costing

00:55:38 When outsourcing to a VA starts to make sense

01:01:08 Where the time actually goes

01:02:01 A £36,000 quote against £11,000 and £12,000

01:05:01 Quoting, then silence

01:07:05 Getting paid, and building trust through terms

01:08:57 Dealing with rejection and a 50/50 win rate

01:12:12 Where clients actually come from

01:13:22 Why the previous website wasn't paying back

01:14:37 No paid ads, everything organic

01:16:17 Page one of Google, and showing up in AI search

ABOUT ALEX MEADOWS

Alex Meadows is the founder of AM Joinery, a bespoke joinery business based in Warwickshire. He began his joinery apprenticeship in 2008 after a careers adviser suggested he would be better off running his own business than working for someone else, then built experience across several employers before registering AM Joinery on 23 September. His approach centres on craftsmanship, clear communication and work built to last rather than work priced to win.

Website: https://amjoinery.uk/

Instagram: @amjoinery.ltd

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: https://theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

Support the show:

https://buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

#JoineryBusiness #TradeBusiness #SmallBusinessUK #BespokeJoinery #TheUpgradeZone

From Farm Accident to Media Founder: Resilience, Technology and Building a Personal Brand | Henry Carpenter

At 14, Henry Carpenter survived a serious tractor accident on his family farm. What followed was years of recovery, fundraising, charity work, travel and eventually a move into podcasting, presenting and building his own media company.

In this episode of **The Upgrade Zone**, Daniel Chrzastek speaks with Henry about resilience, failure, personal branding, starting a business with simple systems and knowing when technology needs to evolve with you.

In this episode

• The farm accident that changed Henry's life at 14

• Recovery, mental health and rebuilding confidence

• Raising money through endurance challenges

• Volunteering with Reach to Africa in Kenya

• Building the Down the Farm podcast and Down the Farm Media

• Starting lean with Excel before investing in more complex systems

• Canva, WavePad, CRM and podcast distribution tools

• Lessons from the family agricultural parts business

• Personal branding, content creation and authenticity

• Sales, pricing, customer trust and learning through failure

Key Takeaways:

**Start with what you have.** A spreadsheet can be enough in the early stages if the process behind it is clear.

**Failure creates useful information.** Henry's setbacks in health, media and career direction have repeatedly pushed him towards new opportunities.

**Your personal brand is part of the business.** People often buy into the person before they buy the service.

**Know your numbers.** Pricing, margins, overheads and cash flow matter even when the business is still small.

**Technology should remove friction.** The right tool is the one that saves time or improves control, not simply the newest or most complicated option.

Episode chapters

00:00:17 Meet Henry Carpenter

00:00:52 Growing up on a Herefordshire farm

00:03:37 The tractor accident that changed everything

00:07:25 The air ambulance and emergency response

00:14:05 Mental health, recovery and rebuilding

00:15:38 Fundraising challenges and the start of Henry's media journey

00:19:16 Kenya and Reach to Africa

00:21:40 Technology and administration inside the charity

00:25:22 Building Down the Farm podcast and Down the Farm Media

00:30:12 Why failure can be a powerful teacher

00:31:21 Henry's media tech stack

00:33:01 CRM and systems in the family agricultural business

00:40:15 Starting a new business with Excel

00:44:49 Podcast distribution, costs and monetisation

00:48:21 Personal branding and authentic content

00:52:43 Choosing the right tech stack as you grow

00:56:34 Travel, perspective and personal growth

01:04:04 Sales advice for new business owners

01:10:00 Adaptability, confidence and saying yes to opportunities

About The Upgrade Zone

The Upgrade Zone is a business and technology podcast hosted by Daniel Chrzastek, exploring the people behind businesses, how those businesses actually work and the technology supporting them.

We speak with founders, business owners, operators and technology leaders about business growth, AI, automation, software, systems, operational efficiency and the real-world return on investment from technology.

Connect with Henry:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/henrycarpenter2/

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: https://theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

Support the show:

https://buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

From PureGym to Property Deal Sourcing: Building a Business with CRM, AI and Networking | Sam Meese

How do you go from a stable career into property, build a new business from scratch and figure out which systems you actually need along the way?

In this episode of **The Upgrade Zone**, Daniel Chrzastek sits down with **Sam Meese**, a property deal sourcer from Kidderminster, to talk about his journey from martial arts and personal training to management at PureGym and eventually into full-time property entrepreneurship.

They explore mindset, networking, deal sourcing, business systems, CRM, AI and the practical reality of building a business when you are still doing almost everything yourself.

## In this episode

- How martial arts shaped Sam's approach to discipline and self-development

- Moving from personal training into management at PureGym

- Realising he was climbing the wrong career ladder

- How Sam first became interested in property investing

- Moving from a rent-to-rent model into property deal sourcing

- Using networking to build relationships with investors and find opportunities

- Why cash flow determines what gets prioritised in the business

- The four principles Sam uses to guide his decisions

- Why a CRM became essential as the business started growing

- Using AI and property data tools to reduce research time

- How Sam uses ChatGPT for content, analysis and recalling previous work

- Why technology should support relationships rather than replace them

## Episode chapters

00:00:16 Meet Sam Meese

00:02:42 Identity, self-development and always looking for the next level

00:05:05 How martial arts shaped Sam's mindset

00:07:08 Becoming a personal trainer

00:10:57 Turning martial arts into a career

00:13:45 Moving into management at PureGym

00:16:00 Coaching, leadership and climbing the career ladder

00:17:18 Discovering investing and property

00:20:03 Finding Samuel Leeds and entering the property world

00:23:00 The importance of environment and surrounding yourself with the right people

00:24:30 Using networking to create opportunities

00:25:55 Sam's original goal when entering property

00:26:30 Why the business changed from rent-to-rent to deal sourcing

00:27:30 Betting on himself and planning the move into full-time business

00:29:30 Building investor relationships before leaving employment

00:32:00 Why busyness is not business

00:32:40 Sam's four business principles

00:33:30 Prioritising cash flow and revenue-generating work

00:35:00 Work ethic, failure and taking action

00:38:00 Risk, resilience and learning from mistakes

00:41:20 The technology behind the business

00:43:09 Why Sam needed a CRM

00:45:40 Choosing Less Annoying CRM

00:47:25 Building property and investor pipelines

00:50:50 Connecting CRM, Google Calendar and contacts

00:53:00 Knowing when you have outgrown your software

00:55:00 Using data and ChatGPT to solve practical problems

00:56:00 Why CRM is the central hub of the business

01:01:00 How to choose the right software

01:01:00 Revisiting old deals using data and AI

01:02:00 Improving the tech stack as the business grows

01:03:12 Final thoughts

01:04:20 Why businesses need to keep adapting their technology

01:04:58 Using Property Market Intel

01:05:45 AI-powered property deal sourcing

01:07:05 How Sam uses ChatGPT

## Connect with Sam Meese

Instagram: [SAMs INSTAGRAM]

## Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

## Support the show:

buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

How do you build a media company when technology keeps changing, clients keep saying no and the opportunity arrives before your business is ready to scale?

In this episode of The Upgrade Zone, Daniel Chrzastek speaks with Darlington, Founder of GMT Media, about his journey from Zimbabwe to South Africa, discovering audiovisual production and building a corporate media and livestreaming business in Cape Town.

They discuss entrepreneurship, hybrid events, business strategy, team building, rejection, mentorship and the technology behind professional live production.

In this episode

• How Darlington discovered videography and founded GMT Media

• Building a one-stop audiovisual service through specialist partners

• How livestreaming created new opportunities during the pandemic

• Turning corporate, church and family communication into recurring services

• Training more than 200 young people and building a flexible production team

• Why strategy and problem-solving can matter more than technical skill alone

• Using selected free projects to build trust, testimonials and a stronger portfolio

• The technology behind professional hybrid events and multistreaming

• Why media businesses must keep learning as technology changes

• Whether visibility matters more than highly polished content

The conversation covers:

• Multistreaming to several platforms at the same time

• Combining physical and virtual audiences

• Managing internet reliability and network latency

• Synchronising audio and video from different sources

• Working with SDI, HDMI and professional audio connections

• Adding graphics, presentations, adverts and other media to a live production

• Using OBS as an accessible starting point

• Moving to tools such as vMix for more advanced productions

• Using presentation software such as ProPresenter

• Following developments in AI-powered camera tracking and production automation

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: https://theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

Support the show:

https://buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

In this episode of The Upgrade Zone, Daniel Chrzastek speaks with Pablo, a farm vet and Co-Founder of Sylva, about building a more professional, measurable and sustainable approach to deer and wild boar management.

They explore the effect unmanaged wildlife populations can have on farms, woodland, biodiversity, animal health and road safety, as well as the technology Sylva is developing to help landowners understand what is happening on their land and make better-informed decisions.

In this episode

• Why deer populations have grown rapidly across parts of the UK

• The financial and environmental impact of wildlife overpopulation

• How deer can affect crops, woodland regeneration and biodiversity

• Turning field observations into useful data for landowners

• Creating deer management plans based on evidence rather than assumptions

• Building an app for data collection, safety and wildlife tracking

• Using technology to improve venison traceability from field to fork

• Developing a family-run business across the UK and Spain

• Why simple software and customer feedback matter when creating a new product

• The role of delegation and complementary skills when building a business

About Pablo

Pablo is a farm vet who moved from Spain to the UK around ten years ago.

Having grown up around farming, hunting and countryside activities, he began exploring how these traditional practices could be approached more professionally.

Together with his brothers, he founded Sylva, a business focused on data-driven deer and wild boar management in the UK and Spain.

The business

Sylva helps landowners, farmers, land agents and other organisations understand and manage wildlife populations on their land.

The process begins by looking at how the land is being used. This could include crop production, livestock farming, woodland management, conservation, rewilding or another commercial activity.

Sylva then assesses the wildlife population, measures its impact and creates a management plan based on the needs of that particular area.

The goal is not to remove wildlife completely. It is to maintain a healthy balance between the animals, the land, farming activity and the wider environment.

The team is also exploring ways to make responsibly sourced venison more widely available through online venison boxes.

The tech behind the business

Sylva is developing its own software to make wildlife data easier to collect, understand and use.

The mobile app is designed to let deer managers record routes, observations, activity, photographs and post-mortem findings while working in the field.

It can also help teams see where other members are operating, creating an additional layer of safety for people working alone or across large areas of land.

Landowners and managers will be able to monitor activity through an online dashboard and see what work has been completed on their property.

Over time, a larger and anonymised dataset could help identify population trends, seasonal changes, movement patterns and possible connections between wildlife and animal disease.

The same technology could also provide greater traceability for venison, showing where an animal came from and how it moved through the process from field to fork.

Key takeaways

Return on investment is not always purely financial.

Wildlife management can protect crops and farming income, but it can also support biodiversity, animal welfare, woodland regeneration, road safety and disease prevention.

You cannot manage what you do not measure.

Before deciding what action to take, landowners need to understand the size of the problem, where it is happening and what effect it is having.

Data can translate wildlife damage into business terms.

By estimating the number of animals, how much they consume and the market value of a crop, Sylva can help a farmer understand the potential financial cost of doing nothing.

Good technology has to work in the real environment.

An app used outdoors, in poor weather and during physical activity must be quick and simple. A complicated system will result in missing or unreliable data.

Start with a useful product and improve it with users.

The Sylva team is beginning with a more focused version of the platform and plans to develop it using feedback from the people working with it in the field.

Build around different strengths.

Pablo and his brothers contribute different skills across veterinary knowledge, fieldwork, software development, data processing, reporting and client relationships.

Responsible wildlife management is about balance.

The objective is not to eliminate deer or wild boar. It is to maintain a population that the land, local environment and surrounding activity can support.

Episode chapters

00:16 Meet Pablo and the story behind Sylva

01:00 From farm vet to business founder

03:40 Why deer population data matters

05:25 Understanding deer overpopulation in the UK

08:10 Wildlife disease, farming and economic risk

09:54 Assessing how land is being used

12:15 Sylva’s data-driven approach

15:00 Wild boar management in Spain

17:19 The client assessment process

20:00 Measuring crop damage and financial loss

22:25 Environmental impact assessments

24:15 Creating a deer management plan

25:12 Wildlife management and regenerative farming

27:00 Maintaining healthy wildlife populations

31:48 Introducing the Sylva app

33:09 Building the business as a family team

34:13 Developing the first version of the software

35:01 Making field data collection simple

37:16 Using location tracking to improve safety

39:35 Venison traceability from field to fork

40:45 Creating an online venison-box service

41:31 The realities of building a new business

42:18 Delegation and working around different strengths

43:46 Using customer feedback to shape the product

45:27 From handwritten records to digital data

47:14 Where to find and contact Sylva

Connect with Pablo and Sylva

Website: [LINK]

Instagram: [LINK]

About The Upgrade Zone

The Upgrade Zone is a business and technology podcast hosted by Daniel Chrzastek, exploring the people behind businesses, how those businesses actually work and the technology supporting them.

We talk to founders, business owners, operators and technology leaders about business growth, AI, automation, software, systems, operational efficiency and the real-world return on investment from technology.

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: https://theupgradezone.co.uk/

Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/033YcP3LG4sy5NPHimYLlO

Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-upgrade-zone-podcast-by-daniel-chrzastek/id6796156750

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielchrzastek/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-upgrade-zone-podcast

Support the show:

https://buymeacoffee.com/danielcheesecake

In this episode of The Upgrade Zone, Daniel Chrzastek sits down with Dori Shabat, Co-Founder and CEO of CallMarker, to unpack the journey behind an AI-powered sales platform built long before ChatGPT made AI mainstream.

They explore how CallMarker grew from a real problem inside Dori's previous advertising business, how the first customers came onboard before the MVP was finished, and what Dori has learned about product development, sales, team building, scaling and AI along the way.

In this episode

• Why solving a real problem matters more than building a perfect product

• Selling an MVP before it is finished and using customers to shape development

• How AI can identify hidden revenue opportunities across sales and customer interactions

• Building a founding team around complementary strengths

• Scaling a bootstrapped SaaS business without losing service quality

• Why Dori believes revenue is one of the most important measures of whether business software actually works

• In-house development, beta testing and learning from failure

• Where automation should replace repetitive work and where AI should enhance people instead

• Why the future of sales may be less about replacing salespeople and more about making each person significantly more effective

About Dori Shabat

Dori Shabat is the Co-Founder and CEO of CallMarker, an AI-powered platform built to help sales teams operate more effectively.

His journey into the business started with an advertising agency serving close to 1,000 customers. After seeing businesses struggle to follow up with leads consistently, Dori and his team began looking at how technology could manage more of the process and help salespeople focus their time where it matters most.

The business

CallMarker was built around a simple problem: generating leads is only useful if businesses can actually turn those opportunities into conversations and revenue.

The platform brings together CRM functionality, communications and AI to help sales teams manage leads, prioritise activity and identify opportunities that might otherwise be missed.

Dori also shares the realities behind building the company, from bootstrapping and finding the right co-founder to hiring teams, expanding from Israel into the UK and learning which systems and processes need to change as a company grows.

The tech behind the business

AI has been part of CallMarker's approach from the beginning.

The system uses data from sales and customer interactions to understand what is happening across the customer journey, prioritise activity and identify opportunities for additional revenue.

One example discussed is Decode Revenue, which looks for opportunities hidden inside existing sales, marketing and customer service processes and can recommend or automate the next action.

But the conversation goes beyond automation.

For repetitive tasks, AI may be able to handle much of the work itself. For more complex interactions such as selling, Dori sees the future as people enhanced by AI, with technology giving salespeople better context, information and guidance before and during customer conversations.

Key takeaways

Sell before you overbuild.

Dori sold the first version of the product using a presentation before the MVP was complete. Paying customers provided much stronger validation than building against assumptions.

Build around complementary strengths.

Dori focused on marketing, sales and revenue while his co-founder focused on technology and product. Their responsibilities were deliberately different.

Scale the process, not just the product.

Growth required documented processes, clear metrics and eventually handing responsibility to people who could outperform the founders in specific roles.

Measure technology by business outcomes.

Rather than focusing only on software features or time saved, the conversation repeatedly comes back to revenue and whether the technology produces a meaningful commercial result.

AI does not have to mean removing people.

Some repetitive processes can be automated completely. More complex work can become significantly more effective when skilled people have better information and AI support.

You will not predict everything.

Products break, customers behave differently than expected and assumptions turn out to be wrong. The advantage comes from learning quickly and improving each time.

Episode chapters

00:16 Meet Dori Shabat and CallMarker

01:50 The problem that led to CallMarker

07:36 Building and selling the first MVP

11:03 Finding hidden revenue with AI

15:03 Choosing the right co-founder

21:19 Building a team and scaling beyond the founders

26:55 Expanding from Israel into the UK

31:49 The metric that matters when building a new product

34:28 Designing a product for scale

39:20 Growing as a founder alongside the business

44:01 Productivity, focus and protecting your time

47:50 Rapid growth vs sustainable growth

48:34 Why Dori prefers in-house development

50:18 Innovation, beta testing and accepting bugs

52:45 Pricing software around value and ROI

56:11 Automation vs AI-enhanced people

59:46 How AI could change businesses and sales teams

61:36 Measuring the impact on revenue

65:29 Entrepreneurship, failure and refusing to give up

Connect with CallMarker

CallMarker: [LINK]

About The Upgrade Zone

The Upgrade Zone is a business and technology podcast hosted by Daniel Chrzastek, exploring the people behind businesses, how those businesses actually work, and the technology supporting them.

We talk to founders, business owners, operators and technology leaders about business growth, AI, automation, software, systems, operational efficiency and the real-world return on investment from technology.

Connect with The Upgrade Zone

Podcast site: https://theupgradezone.co.uk/

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That’s where The Upgrade Zone comes in.

Hosted by Daniel Chrzastek, the show brings together founders, business owners and operators to talk honestly about how their businesses actually work, what they’ve learned along the way, and the technology supporting everything behind the scenes.

Each conversation explores three things:

The person

Who they are, what drives them and the story behind what they’ve built.

The business

Where it came from, how it works today and what happens behind the scenes.

The tech

The systems, software, AI, automation and tools helping the business run, grow and become more efficient.

We’ll look beyond the latest tech trends and focus on what really matters: where technology makes a difference, where it creates unnecessary complexity and whether the investment is actually worth it.

Expect real conversations about business growth, AI, automation, tech stacks, operational efficiency and the real-world return on investment from technology.

This is The Upgrade Zone. Welcome to the show.

Follow the podcast to join the next conversation.

Connect

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LinkedIn: [LINK]

YouTube: [LINK]