In this candid, unscripted, and at times deeply personal conversation, David Fitch and Mike Moore wrestle with one of the most difficult and divisive issues facing the church today: sexuality, LGBTQ inclusion, and the limits of both “affirming” and “non-affirming” frameworks.

Rather than beginning with policy statements or ideological labels, Fitch argues that the deeper issue is the culture of sexuality itself. What he calls the “heterosexual matrix” that shapes both the church and the broader culture. Together, Fitch and Moore explore why churches often lack meaningful pathways for discipleship around sexuality, why policy statements rarely form people, and how the church might recover a more faithful posture rooted in presence, discernment, and the work of the Holy Spirit.

The result is less a debate and more an honest theological conversation about formation, culture, power, welcome, and what it means to pastor faithfully in a deeply polarized moment.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why both “affirming” and “non-affirming” frameworks can become ideological
• The “heterosexual matrix” and how culture shapes sexuality in the church
• Why policy statements rarely produce discipleship or formation
• The tension between pastoral care and theological conviction
• How churches fail to disciple people in all forms of sexuality
• The difference between coercion and Spirit-led formation
• Why the church needs a new imagination for sexuality and community

📌 Key Moments:

• [00:03:00] Fitch introduces his critique of LGBTQ policy statements
• [00:06:30] Three ways to engage culture: individualism, authoritarianism, and the church as reconciled community
• [00:12:00] Why focusing only on individuals bypasses the deeper cultural problem
• [00:15:00] How policy statements preserve ideology rather than form discipleship
• [00:20:00] The church’s lack of imagination for embodied sexual formation
• [00:27:00] Rainbow flags, ideology, and the limits of labeling churches
• [00:37:00] Re-reading Genesis, patriarchy, and discerning sexuality locally and pastorally

The church cannot disciple people using the categories and assumptions of a polarized culture. Faithful formation requires more than policy statements; it requires communities shaped by presence, welcome, discernment, confession, and the ongoing work of Jesus Christ in the midst of human brokenness.

In this special crossover episode, David Fitch and Mike Moore join Andy Littleton and Eric Cepin from the Faith Over Breakfast podcast for a wide-ranging, unscripted conversation on ministry, theology, and life in the real world.

Drawing from their shared (and sometimes diverging) experiences in the emerging church movement, the conversation explores why some communities deconstructed and disappeared—while others stayed rooted and endured. Along the way, they reflect on the role of deep community, the dangers of untethered deconstruction, and why faith must remain centered on Jesus, not just ideas or experiences.

At the center of it all is a shared conviction: you don’t get to make the faith up as you go. You receive it, wrestle with it, and live it out in real communities with real people.

Listen to more episodes of Faith Over Breakfast: https://pod.link/1242441594

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Reflections on the emerging church movement—and what led to its fragmentation
• Why some leaders deconstructed out of faith while others stayed rooted
• The role of deep, committed community in sustaining belief
• The tension between therapy, self-discovery, and Christ-centered discipleship
• Why theology must be lived, not just learned in classrooms
• What makes a church (or seminary) actually form people for real life
• Why context shapes ministry—and why no model transfers cleanly

📌 Key Moments:

• [00:06:00] Eric’s story: planting in the emerging church and staying rooted
• [00:16:00] Community as the anchor through doubt and theological shifts
• [00:22:00] When therapy replaces discipleship—and how to bring Jesus back to the center
• [00:31:00] “You don’t get to make it up”: receiving the faith across generations
• [00:36:00] Every church is a seminary—whether it realizes it or not
• [00:43:00] Why ministry must be contextual, not formulaic
• [00:56:00] Culture, power, and understanding the moment for mission

💡 Takeaway

Faith isn’t formed in isolation or ideology—it’s formed in community, through struggle, and in submission to Jesus. In a time when many are tempted to walk away or reinvent everything, this conversation reminds us: stay rooted, stay honest, and stay with the people God has given you.

David Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with Old Testament scholar Bo Lim to explore his book Contextual Theological Interpretation. Together, they tackle one of the most pressing challenges facing the church today: how to faithfully interpret Scripture across cultures, contexts, and competing theological frameworks.

Lim argues that biblical interpretation cannot live in silos. Historical-critical study, theological tradition, and cultural context must be held together in a dynamic, ongoing dialogue. When any one of these dominates, the Bible either becomes irrelevant, weaponized, or detached from lived reality.

Drawing from years of scholarship, teaching, and lived experience as a Korean American theologian, Lim offers a vision for reading Scripture that is both faithful to the text and responsive to the complexities of our world.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why there is a growing “gap” between biblical studies and real-world ministry
• The limits of historical-critical interpretation alone
• How theological interpretation reclaims Scripture for the life of the church
• What contextual interpretation brings—and where it can go too far
• Why all theology is already shaped by culture (even when we pretend it’s not)
• How to hold text, theology, and context together without collapsing into relativism
• Why multicultural ministry demands a new way of reading Scripture

📌 Key Moments:

• [00:04:00] The “gap” between Scripture and contemporary life
• [00:09:00] Historical criticism vs. theological interpretation
• [00:17:00] What contextual interpretation actually means
• [00:22:00] Why theological traditions are always culturally shaped
• [00:27:00] The hidden biases in biblical commentaries and scholarship
• [00:33:00] Liberation vs. post-colonial readings of Scripture
• [00:38:00] Why no single method is sufficient on its own

Faithful biblical interpretation is not about choosing between text, theology, or context. It's about learning to listen to all three in conversation. When we do, we begin to hear God’s voice not just in the past, but in the present realities of the communities we serve.

What if the most urgent ethical task for Christians today is simply to remember that we are creatures?

In this rich and deeply theological conversation, David Fitch and Mike Moore welcome Brian Brock to discuss his major work, Joining Creation's Praise. Together, they explore how confessing creatureliness reshapes Christian ethics from dominion and vocation to politics, sexuality, economics, and our relationship with the rest of creation.

Brock argues that Scripture begins not with abstract doctrines but with a drama: God in conversation with creatures. Human beings are called not to dominate creation but to join its praise to embody Christ’s image as conduits of divine life. When we forget we are creatures, we distort power, knowledge, and even our understanding of what it means to be human.

Following the early chapters of Genesis, Brock invites the church to rediscover an ancient wisdom that speaks with surprising clarity to modern ethical crises.

🎙️ In This Episode:

1. Why “creatureliness” is the foundation of Christian ethics
2. How Genesis reframes dominion as participation, not control
3. The difference between domination and receiving life from God
4. Sabbath as resistance to modern productivity and mastery
5. How confessing we are creatures reshapes politics and economics
6. Why human dignity is inseparable from our shared creaturely status
7. What it means to embody Christ’s image among other creatures

📌 Key Moments:

1. [00:06:00] Why ethics begins with creaturely confession
2. [00:14:00] Dominion, vocation, and the distortion of power
3. [00:21:00] Knowledge, wisdom, and the limits of human mastery
4. [00:28:00] Sabbath and the reordering of desire
5. [00:35:00] Politics and economics through a creaturely lens
6. [00:42:00] How Christ restores humanity to its true vocation

The ethical life does not begin with moral technique but with worship. To confess that we are creatures is to relinquish control, receive life from God, and participate in a world already praising its Creator. In a culture obsessed with autonomy and power, rediscovering creatureliness may be the church’s most radical witness.

In this wide-ranging and pastoral conversation, David Fitch is joined by Gino Curcuruto to explore how whataboutism functions in political discourse and how it quietly shapes church conflicts, leadership breakdowns, and our witness to the world.

Drawing from Scripture, political theology, pastoral experience, and real-life ministry conflict, Fitch and Curcuruto unpack how antagonisms form, why confession disrupts them, and how the church can engage government without asking it to do what only God can do.

🎙️ In This Episode:

1. What whataboutism is and why it perpetuates antagonism rather than accountability
2. How Jesus refuses false binaries and antagonistic traps (John 8; Luke 4)
3. Why confession, not retaliation, is the most powerful leadership posture
4. The difference between viewing government as a created good vs. a post-fall provision
5. How churches unintentionally mirror political power struggles
6. Why holding government accountable is different from trying to control it
7. The spiritual danger of expecting government to do the church’s work

📌 Key Moments:

1. [00:04:00] How “what about Biden?” or “what about Trump?” blocks moral clarity
2. [00:10:30] Why refusing the antagonism opens space for Jesus to work
3. [00:14:30] Confession as the doorway to reconciliation and renewal
4. [00:21:00] When accusations are real—and when they’re projections
5. [00:27:30] Jesus, antagonisms, and the woman caught in adultery
6. [00:30:00] Pre-fall vs. post-fall views of government—and why it matters
7. [00:36:00] Why the church must resist asking government to save the world

💡 Takeaway

Whataboutism doesn’t protect truth. It protects identity. When Christians refuse to unwind antagonisms, we lose our ability to bear faithful witness. But when leaders practice confession, patience, and discernment in community, space opens for the Spirit to heal what power struggles cannot.

📚 Resources & Links Mentioned:

1. David Fitch on Substack 👉 https://davidfitch.substack.com/
2. Gino Curcuruto on Substack 👉 https://ginocurcuruto.substack.com/
3. End of Evangelicalism by David Fitch
4. The Church of Us vs. Them by David Fitch
5. Chantel Mouffe’s work on political antagonism (referenced conceptually)
6. Romans 13 (referenced for future discussion on church and state)
7. John 8:1–11 – Jesus and the woman caught in adultery
8. Luke 4 – Jesus’ rejection of worldly power

Where might whataboutism be shaping your leadership, relationships, or political engagement, and what would it look like to pause, listen, and confess instead?

David Fitch lays out why he no longer identifies as Reformed, not as an attack, but as a contextual theological critique. Joined by Mike Moore, Fitch reflects on how Reformed theology emerged faithfully in medieval Europe, why it made sense there, and why its dominant expressions no longer fit the cultural realities of North America today.

This episode is not a takedown of Luther or Calvin. Instead, it is an invitation to take context seriously: how theology travels, how power works, how Scripture is interpreted, and how unintended consequences shape the church long after doctrines are formed. Along the way, Fitch argues for a constructive alternative rooted in neo-Anabaptist, holiness, and Pentecostal streams traditions shaped for life beyond Christendom.

🎙️ In This Episode:

1. Why all theology is contextual without being relativistic
2. How Reformed theology functioned within medieval Christendom
3. Penal substitutionary atonement: where it made sense—and where it doesn’t
4. How views of sovereignty, hierarchy, and predestination mirror cultural assumptions
5. Why sola scriptura has produced interpretive chaos in modern evangelicalism
6. The case for neo-Anabaptist, holiness, and Pentecostal theology today

📌 Highlights:

1. [00:08:00] Why Protestantism “had nothing to protest” in North America
2. [00:13:00] How Reformed theology was later used to interiorize salvation
3. [00:20:00] Power, sovereignty, and concessions to Christendom
4. [00:26:00] The dangers of unmoored sola scriptura
5. [00:30:00] Why holiness, Pentecostal, and Anabaptist traditions fit our moment

📚 Resources Mentioned:

1. “Protestantism Without Reformation” (1939) by Dietrich Bonhoeffer — found in No Rusty Swords, this essay critiques American Protestantism for losing its reforming edge, a theme echoed throughout this episode.
2. Scott Jones (New Persuasive Words) — “Reforming the Reformers? Dave Fitch, Neo-Baptists, and a Misread Reformation” — Scott and Bill respond directly to Fitch’s post and critique his reading of the Reformers. (Episode 390: https://npw.fireside.fm/390)
3. Gustaf Aulén, Christus Victor — a classic retrieval of Christus Victor atonement theology (named as a corrective to what gets lost when PSA becomes the dominant frame).
4. Anselm of Canterbury, Cur Deus Homo — referenced as part of the medieval background for juridical/forensic atonement frameworks (“it doesn’t mean it wasn’t resident in Ansel”).
5. Robert Schreiter — “all theology is local” referenced as a framing line for the episode’s central claim about contextual theology and continuity without relativism.

The question isn’t whether Reformed theology was ever faithful. It’s whether its dominant assumptions about power, authority, Scripture, and salvation still serve the church’s mission today. Theology must remain faithful to Scripture and attentive to context if it is to form communities that live under the reign of Jesus rather than the logic of empire.

From artificial intelligence and political instability to education, housing, and the erosion of trust in institutions, the hosts reflect on the pressures facing Gen Z, pastors, and local churches alike. The conversation circles back again and again to one central question:

Where should we center our lives when everything else feels unstable?

🎙️ In This Episode:

1. Why AI may be more disruptive to human formation than the internet
2. The growing normalization of political violence and public mistrust
3. The collapse and reimagining of higher education and theological formation
4. Why homeownership feels impossible and how churches might respond creatively
5. What it means to center life in the local church amid cultural fragmentation

📌 Highlights:

1. [00:08:00] AI, creativity, and resisting a culture of convenience
2. [00:17:00] Political unrest and the call to local faithfulness
3. [00:26:00] Education’s crisis—and why formation still matters
4. [00:31:00] Housing, community, and economic imagination
5. [00:39:00] Centering life in the church rather than institutions or identity markers

When institutions falter, and the future feels unclear, the church is called to become a visible alternative—not a retreat from the world, but a grounded community of discernment, presence, and hope. The work ahead is not to predict the future, but to faithfully inhabit it together.

If 2026 truly is a year of uncertainty, what would it look like to locate your identity not in success, security, or certainty but in a shared life centered on Jesus, practiced in real neighborhoods, with real people?

In this timely conversation, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore welcome theologian, author, and Holy Post co-host Kaitlyn Schiess to discuss her book The Ballot and the Bible: How Scripture Has Been Used and Abused in American Politics and Where We Go from Here.

Together, they explore how American Christians have wielded (and often weaponized) the Bible in public life. From Romans 13 and the Revolutionary War to slavery, civil rights, and the rise of Christian nationalism. Kaitlyn offers both a critique of misuse and a hopeful invitation: to reclaim Scripture as a source of wisdom, hospitality, and faithful witness in the public square.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why the Bible still matters for politics (even after all the misuse)
• How Romans 13 has been used to justify everything from rebellion to tyranny
• The disturbing history of biblical defenses of slavery and what we can learn from Black interpreters
• How the civil rights movement modeled faithful, embodied, Scripture-shaped resistance
• Why pastors and leaders must form people for faithfulness, not just political alignment

📌 Highlights:

• [00:06:00] How Scripture became “weaponized” in the American Revolution
• [00:13:00] Romans 13 and the danger of using the Bible to win political arguments
• [00:19:00] How enslaved believers read the Bible differently and more faithfully than their oppressors
• [00:27:00] MLK and the Black Church as a model for Scripture-shaped activism
• [00:33:00] Why true political discipleship starts in the church, not the state

The problem isn’t that the Bible speaks to politics; it’s that we’ve forgotten how to let it form us before we use it. The call today is not to abandon Scripture in public life but to recover its use as an act of love, truth, and hospitality.

📚 Resources Mentioned:

• The Ballot and the Bible by Kaitlyn Schiess
• The Liturgy of Politics by Kaitlyn Schiess
• The Spirit of Our Politics by Michael Wear
• Reckoning with Power by David Fitch
• The Christian Imagination by Willie James Jennings
• The Fire in My Bones by Albert Raboteau
• Resident Aliens by Stanley Hauerwas & William Willimon

When Scripture is used to defend power instead of form faith, everyone loses.

What would it look like to read the Bible not to win debates, but to become the kind of people who can love, listen, and lead in public as followers of Jesus?

In this episode, Dave Fitch and guest co-host Gino Curcuruto sit down with Dr. Malcolm Foley, pastor, scholar, and author of The Anti-Greed Gospel: Why the Love of Money is the Root of Racism and How the Church Can Create a New Way Forward.

Dr. Foley unpacks how economic exploitation lies at the heart of racial injustice—and why Jesus’ warning that “you cannot serve both God and mammon” is as urgent today as ever. Together they explore the demonic cycle of self-interest that perpetuates racism through exploitation, violence, and lies, and they offer a vision for Christian communities shaped by deep economic solidarity, creative nonviolence, and prophetic truth-telling.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why greed—not hate—is the true root of racism
• How capitalism and racial hierarchy became intertwined
• The role of mammon as a spiritual power deforming the church
• Why anti-racism and reparations often miss the deeper structural sin
• How the church can become a visible alternative to exploitation and fear

📌 Highlights:

• [00:09:00] Race as a “demonic cycle” of exploitation, violence, and lies
• [00:13:00] How greed drives racialized slavery, lynching, and modern inequities
• [00:18:00] Why the church must flee mammon, not just manage it
• [00:24:00] The Sermon on the Mount as a blueprint for kingdom economics
• [00:35:00] How local churches can witness through economic solidarity and love of enemies

We can’t end racism without confronting greed. The good news: the church already holds the resources to resist mammon and embody a new economy of grace.

📚 Resources Mentioned:

• The Anti-Greed Gospel by Malcolm Foley (Brazos Press)
• Asian Americans and the Spirit of Racial Capitalism by Jonathan Tran
• God’s Reign and the End of Empires by Antonio González
• Reckoning with Power by David Fitch
• Mosaic Church Waco
• Malcolm Foley at Baylor University

What if a true test of discipleship isn’t how we treat differences but how we handle money? How could your church become a community of economic solidarity, creative peace, and prophetic truth in the face of mammon’s pull?

Together, they trace the shift from “Big Eva” (celebrity pastors and large conferences) to “Gig Eva” (independent online influencers shaping faith outside accountability or community). The conversation wrestles with how this new ecosystem forms pastors, congregations, and the public imagination of what “church” even is and calls for a recovery of embodied, local, presence-based ministry.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• The difference between Big Eva and Gig Eva—and why both shape the church’s imagination
• How digital influence redefines leadership, authority, and credibility
• The danger of disembodied discipleship and social media “theology”
• Why pastors must resist measuring faithfulness by metrics or clicks
• How to reclaim embodied church in an age of platform-driven ministry

📌 Highlights:

• [00:07:00] “Big Eva” as the era of celebrity pastors and conference platforms
• [00:10:00] “Gig Eva” as the rise of influencers without local accountability
• [00:17:00] How online perception replaces real discipleship
• [00:24:00] The lure of success, self-promotion, and burnout in ministry
• [00:33:00] Embodied church as the faithful alternative to the gig economy

The future of the church isn’t in virality, it’s in presence. Faithful ministry grows from local soil, not from algorithms. The way forward is slow, small, and deeply relational.

📖 Resources Mentioned:

• “Goodbye Big Eva, Hello Gig Eva” by Carl Trueman (First Things)
• The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl R. Trueman
• Reckoning with Power: Why the Church Fails When It’s on the Wrong Side of Power by David Fitch
• The Strategically Small Church by Brandon O’Brien
• The Glass Church and The Church Must Grow or Perish by Gerardo Marti & Mark Mulder
• Table Philly Church
• Fitch’s Provocations (Substack)

What does it mean to lead faithfully when “success” is measured by followers, not fruit? How can your church move from digital performance to embodied presence?

In this episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore dig beneath partisan headlines to uncover the deeper philosophical divide shaping our cultural and theological conflicts. Fitch traces the roots of our polarization to two competing political visions: liberal democracy (centered on individual freedom) and national conservatism (centered on shared cultural values).

From there, they explore how both sides fall short and why neither has room for the church. The conversation turns toward what it means for Christians to embody a third way: a politic of the kingdom rooted in community, discipleship, and the lordship of Christ.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• The deep ideological divide behind America’s political wars
• Liberal democracy vs. national conservatism—what each gets right (and wrong)
• How both sides sideline the church
• Why coercion and individualism can never produce kingdom life
• What pastors can do to lead faithfully in a polarized world

📌 Highlights:

• [00:05:00] The individual vs. the collective—two visions of society
• [00:10:00] Why Christian nationalism fails in a multicultural world
• [00:15:00] Hauerwas, Rawls, and the politics of virtue
• [00:21:00] The church as an alternative politic
• [00:24:00] “Start with five people”: how pastors can build kingdom communities amid chaos

Both liberal democracy and national conservatism promise freedom, but only the church can form people to live free in Christ.

When Christians embody the politics of Jesus together, they become the living alternative our polarized world desperately needs.

Beyond the tragedy, they explore what Charlie Kirk symbolized in American Christianity—and what his influence reveals about the modern church’s failures in discipleship, community, and cultural engagement.

Fitch argues that Kirk’s rise, and the polarization surrounding him, exposes an empty ecclesiology: a Christianity shaped more by individualism and ideology than by the life of the local church. Together, the hosts ask hard questions about power, influence, and the role of the church in a politically divided age.

Charlie Kirk as a Cultural Symbol (Part 1): https://substack.com/home/post/p-173936722

Charlie Kirk is a Cultural Symbol (Part 2): https://davidfitch.substack.com/p/charlie-kirk-is-a-cultural-symbol

🎙️ In This Episode:

• The difference between Charlie Kirk the person and Charlie Kirk the cultural symbol
• How antagonism replaces real conversation in our political and religious discourse
• The church’s failure to disciple young people and engage complex moral questions
• Why “influencers” are filling the space the church has vacated
• How individualistic faith leads to political idolatry

📌 Highlights:

• [00:05:00] Why Charlie Kirk became a master signifier of political identity
• [00:10:00] How antagonism keeps us from addressing real issues on the ground
• [00:15:00] The influencer as a substitute for the church
• [00:22:00] The hunger of young men for direction and discipleship
• [00:27:00] From personal faith to political power: how individualism fuels Christian nationalism

Charlie Kirk’s rise and death reveal both the brokenness of our political moment and the vacuum left by the church’s retreat from public discipleship. Until the church reclaims its call to embody the presence and power of Jesus in community, political idols will keep filling the gap.

In this episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore dig into why biblical studies and cultural studies must go hand in hand for pastors, leaders, and everyday Christians. From sexuality to money, from language to power, interpretation always happens inside a culture.

Ignore that, and our preaching either falls flat or feels dictatorial.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why evangelicals and post-evangelicals default to biblical studies but often ignore cultural dynamics
• How terms like “gay” or even “marriage” carry radically different meanings in different communities
• Why listening to culture is essential before speaking the gospel into it
• Practical stories from Hyde Park, Wheaton, and Boystown on how cultural contexts shape identity and desire
• What pastors and parents can learn about engaging teens and younger generations

📌 Highlights:

• [00:05:00] Why evangelicals are blind to cultural dynamics
• [00:09:00] Romans 1 and the problem of assuming “gay” means the same thing across times and places
• [00:16:00] Learning cultural dynamics by listening in coffee shops, not just reading books
• [00:21:00] Why assumptions about money, power, and sexuality can shut people off from the gospel
• [00:24:00] The call to humility and presence in our cultural engagement

Pastors don’t just need to read their Bibles; they need to read their neighborhoods. Without cultural awareness, even the most faithful biblical interpretation can miss the mark.

Whether you’re nostalgic for the church you grew up in, disillusioned by it, or daring to believe something new is possible—this episode offers wisdom, challenge, and a reminder of the gospel’s power to revive.

🎧 In This Episode:

• The danger of using Christianity as a means to an end
• Why “personal” doesn’t have to mean “individualistic”
• Scripture as encounter vs. information
• What real revival might look like today
• Recovering wonder, hope, and moral credibility in the church

🛠 Resources Mentioned:

• Losing Our Religion: An Altar Call for Evangelical America by Russell Moore
• The Russell Moore Show – podcast from Christianity Today
• Reckoning with Power: Why the Church Fails When It's on the Wrong Side of Power by David Fitch
• Center for Public Theology at Christianity Today

In this forward-thinking episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with Dr. Eun K. Strawser to explore how church planting must evolve in a post-COVID world. Drawing on her work with the IWA Collaborative, her leadership at Ma Ke Alo o, and insights from her upcoming book You Were Never Meant to Lead Alone, Eun outlines a vision for leadership that is local, diverse, co-vocational, and built on discipleship, not metrics.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why the old church planting model no longer fits post-pandemic realities

• The rise of co-vocational, prophetically bent leaders—especially Black, Brown, and women leaders

• Redefining success: from attendance metrics to neighborhood presence

• A vision of shared leadership rooted in communal discipleship

• The emerging partnership between Northern Seminary and IWA Collaborative

📌 Highlights:

• [00:08:00] What the Eva bird teaches us about leadership and local nesting

• [00:13:00] Co-vocational leadership and the shift away from big-budget, parachute church plants

• [00:22:00] How prophetic, local leaders are already planting churches—whether they call it that or not

• [00:29:00] Eun’s forthcoming book: You Were Never Meant to Lead Alone (pre-order available soon)

• [00:33:00] Five pillars of the new church planting initiative:

  1. Centering Discipleship (book link)

  2. Intercultural Dynamics

  3. Sharing Leadership

  4. Pastoring Co-Vocationally

  5. Exegeting Neighborhoods

  
  

💡 Takeaway:
Church planting isn’t dead—it’s just waking up to a new imagination. The future belongs to grounded leaders who know their neighborhood, share power, center discipleship, and stop disqualifying themselves from God’s call.

📖 Resources Mentioned:

• Centering Discipleship by Eun K. Strawser (IVP)

• Eun’s upcoming book You Were Never Meant to Lead Alone (Fall 2024 – Preorder link coming soon)

• Northern Seminary Church Planting Initiative

• IWA Collaborative

• Lawndale Christian Community Church

• Christian Community Development Association (CCDA)

In this musical and moving conversation, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore welcome Mark Glanville, pastor, jazz pianist, and author of Preaching in a New Key, to explore how preaching can meet the needs of post-Christian communities. From shifting cultural landscapes to the crisis of plausibility in faith, this episode unpacks how the preacher’s voice, imagination, and presence can open up space for beauty, belonging, and belief.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why a 1970s preaching manual is still #1 on Amazon—and why that’s a problem

• What a “crisis of plausibility” means for modern preaching

• Why Scripture must be heard as a communal word, not just an individual one

• How preaching can surprise people into faith through beauty and truth

• What jazz, blues, and the Psalms can teach us about crafting sermons today

📌 Highlights:

• [00:07:00] Faith in a post-Christian city: what’s changed since the Bible-under-the-arm days

• [00:13:00] The power of preaching to restore trust in Scripture

• [00:22:00] From “you” to “we”: how preaching shapes the beloved community

• [00:36:00] Why preaching from your humanity is not optional—it’s essential

• [00:39:00] Blues as a metaphor for the church: grief, joy, and solidarity

💡 Takeaway:
Preaching today is less about having the right answers and more about being fully present—bringing Scripture to life with the imagination, lyricism, and beauty that awakens faith. In a culture suspicious of authority, the ironic authority of wisdom is what opens hearts.

In this episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with Bonhoeffer scholar Michael DeJonge to explore the famed theologian’s approach to resisting authoritarian power. Drawing from his article How to Resist an Unjust State and his books on Bonhoeffer's theology, DeJonge unpacks the Lutheran roots of Bonhoeffer’s political vision and why his legacy resists easy appropriation in today’s culture wars.

📖 Suggested Resources:

• How to resist an unjust state? Dietrich Bonhoeffer and his theology of political resistance
• Bonhoeffer on Resistance: The Word Against the Wheel
• Bonhoeffer's Theological Formation: Berlin, Barth, and Protestant Theology

🎙️ In This Episode:

• The historical truth behind Bonhoeffer’s involvement in plots to resist Hitler
• Why Bonhoeffer’s theology of resistance goes far beyond assassination debates
• A deep dive into Lutheran two-kingdom theology—and how Bonhoeffer revised it
• How the church can speak into state injustice without being co-opted by political power
• Lessons for resisting both passivity and polarization in today’s divided landscape

📌 Highlights:

• [00:08:00] Did Bonhoeffer support violence? His participation in anti-Nazi plots clarified
• [00:14:00] Bonhoeffer’s “authentically Lutheran” resistance—and why it still matters
• [00:27:00] Evangelicals, Trump, and the preservation/redemption split—dangerous echoes
• [00:38:00] The meaning behind “jamming a spoke in the wheel”
• [00:44:00] From preaching to presence: Why Bonhoeffer built community to resist

💡 Takeaway:

Bonhoeffer’s legacy isn’t about mimicking the past but learning how to discern our moment.

Resistance begins not with outrage but with the church being the church—formed, faithful, and ready to speak a word against injustice when the time demands it.

In this provocative episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore wrestle with the deep similarities between evangelical and post-evangelical spaces. Are we just switching teams while playing the same game? From the role of the self in faith to justice work and power structures, they explore what truly changes (and what doesn’t) when people move from white evangelicalism to progressive or mainline Protestant spaces.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why leaving evangelicalism doesn’t necessarily mean leaving evangelical ways of thinking.
• The modern self: how both fundamentalist and progressive Christianity center personal identity.
• Justice as something we do vs. justice as something Jesus is doing.
• The trap of power: why both evangelicals and progressives wield authority in similar ways.
• How a neo-Anabaptist vision could reshape discipleship and engagement with culture.

📌 Highlights:

• [00:05:00] Does moving from evangelical to post-evangelical really change anything?
• [00:13:00] How both camps center faith around the individual self.
• [00:21:00] Justice work: Are we doing it for people or with people?
• [00:32:00] Power dynamics: Why both evangelicals and progressives assume an expert posture.
• [00:37:00] A vision beyond the binaries: toward a new way of being the church.

💡 Takeaway:

Shifting theological or political stances doesn’t automatically transform the way we engage culture, power, and justice. Without rethinking the self, mission, and power dynamics, we risk reinforcing the very systems we hoped to escape.

In this thought-provoking episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with Matthew Bates, professor of New Testament at Northern Seminary and author of Beyond the Salvation Wars, to challenge long-held assumptions about the gospel. From the pitfalls of individualistic salvation to the deeper call of allegiance to King Jesus, they explore what it truly means to be saved—and why both Protestants and Catholics need to rethink their approach.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Why reducing the gospel to “justification by faith” misses the bigger picture.
• How allegiance to Jesus reshapes our understanding of salvation.
• The problem with both evangelical and progressive approaches to discipleship.
• Why the Gospel Coalition and the Catholic Church might have more in common than we think.
• How pastors can cultivate a Gospel Allegiance Culture in their churches.

📌 Highlights:

• [00:04:00] The problem with how Protestants and Catholics frame salvation.
• [00:12:00] Justification as a benefit of the gospel, not the gospel itself.
• [00:19:00] Rethinking righteousness: Imputed, imparted, or incorporated?
• [00:27:00] Why spiritual disciplines should be allegiance opportunities.
• [00:32:00] The danger of reducing faith to “try harder and do better.”

💡 Takeaway:

The gospel isn’t just about avoiding hell or doing justice—it’s about swearing allegiance to King Jesus and being swept up in his mission for the world. When we move beyond an individualistic, works-based mindset, we discover a deeper, more holistic understanding of salvation.

📖 Additional Reflection:

What would change in your life if you saw faith not as belief or effort, but as allegiance to Jesus? Let us know your thoughts!

In this compelling episode, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with Dan White Jr., author of Love Over Fear, to discuss the art of engaging in difficult conversations. They explore how compassion, curiosity, and a theology of the table can heal divisions in our churches, neighborhoods, and beyond.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Dan White Jr. shares how the Kineo Center equips weary leaders to find healing.
• The four transformative practices for depolarized conversations.
• Stories of profound breakthroughs during “depolarization dinners.”
• How Jesus’ table practices challenge the powers of polarization and invite kingdom living.

📌 Highlights:

• [00:05:00] Dan introduces the Kineo Center as a space for healing weary leaders.
• [00:12:34] The Power of Conversation in Polarized Times
• [00:17:00] The origins of Love Over Fear: lessons from a politically divided church.
• [00:29:00] Four practices for depolarized conversations, including compassionate curiosity and subversive stories.
• [00:29:33] Techniques for Depolarization
• [00:41:00] A theology of the table: how Jesus confounds the powers of polarization.

💡 Takeaway:

The practice of kingdom living starts at the table, where power shifts from winning arguments to mutual transformation. In a polarized world, Christians are called to disrupt division and embody Christ's love through listening, storytelling, and trust in God’s presence.

📖 Additional Reflection:

How can you use the table as a space for transformation and reconciliation in your community?

In this episode of Theology on Mission, Dave Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with scholar Matthew D. Taylor to uncover the startling rise of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR)—a movement reshaping the landscape of evangelical Christianity and American politics.

Taylor reveals how this influential network of apostles and prophets has grown from obscure beginnings to a force wielding colossal sway, intertwining charismatic zeal with far-right rhetoric. From the Seven Mountains Mandate to the dramatic spiritual warfare on January 6, this conversation peels back the layers on how NAR’s vision of Christian supremacy is impacting both the church and democracy.

Brace yourself for a deep dive into the movement's roots, its rapid ascent, and what it means for the future of faith and public life.

Timestamps: 

01:49 Introducing Northern Seminary's New President

04:17 Meet Our Esteemed Guest: Dr. Matthew Taylor

05:49 The Violent Take It By Force: Book Overview

07:50 The New Apostolic Reformation and January 6th

09:24 C. Peter Wagner: The Man Behind the Movement

12:23 Signs, Wonders, and Church Growth

17:51 Strategic Level Spiritual Warfare

20:19 Theological Implications and Controversies

23:11 The Rise of Pragmatic Theology

24:11 From Fringe to Mainstream: The Evolution of NAR

26:16 The Seven Mountain Mandate

27:32 Sarah Palin and the NAR's Political Ambitions

28:10 Donald Trump: The Anointed One

30:57 The Theology of Christian Trumpism

32:02 The January 6th Insurrection

34:35 Theological Reflections and Critiques

38:11 Christian Supremacy vs. Democracy

44:44 Cultural Resentment and Conservative Christians

48:54 Final Thoughts and Future Directions

Prophets beyond Activism insightfully challenges the common progressive narrative that the prophets of ancient Israel were primarily concerned with social justice. Instead it daringly offers more life-giving ways of engaging the prophetic books for the causes of justice.

The assumption that the prophets of ancient Israel were primarily concerned with social justice so permeates the thinking and the discourse of progressive Christianity that it might be considered an interpretive orthodoxy. For example, progressives characterize prophets as those who speak truth to power and “prophetic preaching” as social critique. Yet, they often do so without explanation or consideration of alternative views.

Timestamps:  

01:54 Introducing Dr. Julia O'Brien

03:05 Prophets as Activists Orthodoxy

09:06 Biblical Ventriloquism and Social Justice

13:46 Challenges of Interpreting Prophetic Texts

20:14 The Role of Prophets in Modern Social Justice

45:37 Concluding Thoughts and Final Remarks

They delve into their reactions to the election outcome, explore the broader implications for the church, politics, and society, and consider how the church should engage in politics moving forward. The conversation includes reflections on the failure of the church to address key societal issues, the challenges faced under the new administration, and calls for the church to become a space of reconciliation and healing.

They emphasize the importance of community engagement and the role of the church in addressing cultural and political divides.

Timestamps:

00:47 Initial Reactions to the 2024 Election

01:39 Personal Reflections and Context

04:21 Theological and Sociological Implications

05:44 Church's Role in Politics

18:01 Cultural Resentment and Antagonism

25:51 Call to Action for the Church

32:18 Practical Steps for Community Engagement

33:09 Addressing Critiques of Local Church Efforts

34:01 The Role of the Church in Politics

35:36 Post-Christendom Reflections

36:59 The Church's Alignment with Political Power

38:20 Fragmented Christendom in the U.S.

40:57 The Church's Role in Social Movements

49:28 Post-Election Reflections and Challenges

55:20 Final Thoughts and Call to Action

Is the gospel good news for us today? Many Christians—especially young Christians stepping into a world and a church devastated by division, scandal, and abuse—are asking this question and deciding it simply isn’t. For many, it seems like our faith has little to offer the world around us. Our gospel has become too small—it looks nothing like the Jesus who embodies good news in the flesh.  

How do we recover this gospel? When we turn to the parable of the prodigal son—a story of elaborate parties, upside-down kingdoms, and reunited families—we can hear in Jesus’ own words a clear presentation of what he is doing, of a truth that is bigger and better than we’ve imagined. In these pages, author and pastor Jonny Morrison invites us on a journey to help us find ourselves and Jesus in the welcoming arms of this familiar parable, zooming out to show how this story shapes the entire story of Scripture. Along the way we discover the radically inclusive power of the gospel that upends religions, disrupts empires, heals the wounded, and empowers the marginalized. This is, after all, Jesus’ news to tell, and when we truly listen to him tell it, we can be found again in the surprising, disarming, challenging gospel that is truly good news.

Timestamps:

02:18 Johnny Morrison's Background

03:57 Discussing Prodigal Gospel

05:12 The Gospel and Its Implications

13:41 Challenges in Communicating the Gospel

15:25 The Need for an Entry Point

16:17 Metaphors for Articulating the Gospel

16:46 The Prodigal Son as a Gospel Metaphor

19:03 Personal Stories and the Gospel

23:34 Challenges and Reservations

26:10 Concluding Thoughts and Recommendations

With lively debate and thoughtful reflection, Fitch and Crouch wrestle with authority in the church offering clarity and connection. The episode wraps up with a powerful call to reclaim God's presence and power in the church's practices.

Timestamps:

01:45 Diving into Power Dynamics

05:12 Genesis vs. Jesus: Different Starting Points

11:18 The Role of the State and Power

24:10 Creative Leadership and Coercion

28:47 Understanding Mutual Submission

29:08 God's Power vs. Worldly Power

29:17 Legal Disputes Among Christians

30:56 Jesus' Power and Authority

32:22 Debating the Nature of Jesus' Power

34:48 Peter's Resistance and Jesus' Response

36:18 The Concept of Creative Power

42:48 The Role of the Church and Sacraments

46:33 Final Thoughts and Reflections

Andy Crouch & David Fitch have nuanced ways in which they see God’s invitation to embrace and use power in the world.  

The discussion explores topics such as coercive versus creative power, idolatry and injustice, and the pervasive influence of systems like Mammon in modern Christian thought. This candid conversation over the implications of using power in the name of God. From the Genesis narrative and historical stances on ecclesiastical power. 

This deep dive aims to unpack the complexities of wielding power within Christendom, ultimately emphasizing a return to true worship and dependence on God as a solution.

Timestamps: 

01:36 Introducing Andy Crouch

02:28 Andy Crouch's Journey and Work

03:56 The Crisis in Evangelicalism

05:20 The Theology of Power

10:55 The Creative and Coercive Power

20:02 The Problem of Magic and Mammon

23:54 Introduction to Power Distortion

24:40 Summarizing the Issues of Power

25:23 The Two Powers and Their Origins

26:09 Critique of Andy Crouch's Views

27:02 The Problem with Blurring Powers

29:27 Andy Crouch's Response

34:26 The Role of Coercion in Power

39:00 Concluding Thoughts and Next Steps

In a world where we can see the abuses of power everywhere.

David Fitch & Mike Moore from The Theology on Mission Podcast join Mark and Tara Beth to discuss power dynamics in the church's life.  Church leaders must discern power and avoid its abuses and traumas. By learning from the church's historical pitfalls, Christians can be empowered to relinquish worldly power and make space for God to disrupt and transform our culture for his kingdom.

In this episode they explore the appropriate exercise of power within the church, distinguishing between God's and worldly power, and the importance of mutual submission and humility. The conversation addresses how pastors can discern when they are misusing power and the need for a community and friends to hold them accountable. 

Timestamps:

01:08 Meet the Guests: Dr. Mike Moore and Dr. David Fitch

03:35 The Challenge of Power in Pastoral Leadership

05:00 Distinguishing God's Power from Worldly Power

07:33 Recognizing and Managing Misuse of Power

10:45 Spiritual Authority and Mutual Submission

26:40 Practical Applications and Organizational Structures

33:34 Concluding Thoughts 

Tara Beth and Mark talk about the many active struggles of ministry. Antagonism and all sorts of sources have created a polarized world. Often this blows up in the church.  Mark and Tara Beth share their insights from mediating conflicts, understanding underlying issues, and knowing when it might be time to move on from a pastoral role. 

Pastors foster a reconciling presence as Christ was a reconciling force through his ministry.  

Listen to The Pastor’s Table on your favorite platform: https://pod.link/1661366136 

Outline: 

00:00 Introduction and Banter

01:58 Special Guests Introduction

04:23 Challenges of Ministry

10:01 Antagonism in the Church

18:09 Historical Context of Marriage

18:49 Modern Affluence and Marriage Dynamics

19:56 Pastoral Leadership in Conflict

21:56 Understanding Congregational Antagonisms

23:18 Modeling Reconciliation in Church

29:53 Social Media's Impact on Pastors

38:12 Differentiation and Pastoral Identity

39:28 When It's Time to Leave

41:03 Final Thoughts and Podcast Wrap-Up

Despite the generations-long crisis existing between Israel and Palestinian, there are followers of Jesus faithfully living out their faith. David Fitch and Mike Moore sit down with Reverend Jack Sara, President of Bethlehem Bible College and a native Palestinian pastor. They delve into the pressing issues Christians face on the ground in the Gaza crisis and beyond. 

Pastor Jack shares his deeply personal account of living and ministering in a land torn by conflict, tracing the legacy of Palestinian Christians and their pursuit of peace amidst ongoing violence. From the challenges of navigating daily life under occupation to fostering interfaith understanding and resilience, this conversation sheds light on the work of the kingdom of Jesus in regions afflicted by long-standing hostilities. 

Listen in as we explore the role of faith, the power of nonviolent reconciliation, and the hope that persists for a better future in Palestine.

Learn more about and support the work being done at Bethlehem Bible College at https://bethbc.edu/

Timestamps: 

02:32 Pastor Jack's Personal and Family History Amidst Conflict

03:06 The Role of Christianity in Palestine's Turbulent Context

06:46 Challenges and Hopes for Palestinian Christians

16:46 The Impact of Palestinian Christians Beyond Their Numbers

22:27 Supporting Palestinian Christians: Insights and Actions

38:03 Closing Thoughts and Prayer for Peace

Charles Kiser and Elanie Heath recover the God of love from the structures of hate that pervade Christian communities in America today. In their new guide, Elanie and Charles work toward bringing this reformation to fruition through ministering specifically to the spiritually traumatized. 

Fitch talks with Charles about this new book and how our faith communities can be better attuned to the trauma of others. Start making deeper connections and better cultivate communities of wounded healers.  

Learn more the book and connect with Charles at his website:  https://www.charleskiser.com 

Jared Patrick Boyd reveals how the constraints practiced in Christian community shape us into the way of Christ. He re-anchors the practices of constraint within the ascetic tradition of monasticism, religious orders, and the early church fathers. Boyd writes, "The constraints of a rule of life are what make life together, lived for one another, possible. A rule of life is not meant to be primarily personal, but communal. It's not primarily meant to guide my life. It is meant to describe our way of life together." Constraint is the practice of learning to pay deeper attention to the things in our inner world that prevent us from progressing in the school of love.

Discover a deep conversation on freedom and constraint with six core practices of constraint that can form in us a greater freedom to be and become people who love as God loves. Enter into this vision with your local community (in small groups, church leadership teams, or families), and learn to make greater room to experience the love of God.

Grab your copy of Finding Freedom in Constraint: https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Freedom-Constraint-Reimagining-Disciplines/dp/1514004313

For the majority of people, sorrow, despair, anxiety, and mental illness are everyday experiences. While we have made tremendous advancements in therapy and psychiatry, the burden of living still comes down to mundane choices that we each must make―like the daily choice to get out of bed.

In this deeply personal essay, Alan Noble considers the unique burden of everyday life in the modern world. Sometimes, he writes, the choice to carry on amid great suffering―to simply get out of bed―is itself a powerful witness to the goodness of life, and of God.

Purchase Your Copy of On Getting Out of Bed: https://www.ivpress.com/on-getting-out-of-bed 

Politics are dividing our churches like never before. In his new book, Exiles: The Church in the Shadow of Empire, Dr. Preston Sprinkle reminds us that the first-century church was not an apolitical gathering, where Christians left their Roman politics at the door. It also wasn’t where Christians mounted a Roman flag next to—or above—a Christian one. Church was a place where God’s plan for governing the world was revealed, where one could witness what it means to follow the Creator’s design for human flourishing. 

Fitch, Mike, and Preston explore why:

• Israel’s exile to Babylon profoundly shaped the political identity of God’s people—and still does today.
• Christians should see themselves as foreigners in the country where they live.
• The gospel of Jesus’ kingdom was politically subversive.
• The church today should view its political identity as fundamentally separate from the empire.

Total allegiance to a political party dilutes the church’s witness. Discover a more biblical, powerful way to live in a secular world. Discover what it means to live in exile.

Get your copy of Exiles: https://www.prestonsprinkle.com/books/exiles

In David Fitch’s new book, Reckoning with Power, he unpacks the difference between worldly power, or power over others, and God's power, which engages not in coercion but in love, reconciliation, grace, forgiveness, and healing.

On today’s podcast, Mike and Fitch focus on the power found at the very beginning of Genesis and how that sets the stage for how the church should reckon with power. 

Rev. Dr. Al Tizon is an Affiliate Associate Professor of Missional & Global Leadership at North Park Seminary. An ordained minister of the Evangelical Covenant Church, Tizon has served churches and engaged in community development work, church leadership, holistic ministry, advocacy, and urban ministry both in the Philippines and in the United States. He was formerly co-president of Evangelicals for Social Action, an activist think tank that combines holistic ministry, public policy, and scholarship.

If you want to study with us at Northern and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Beth Jones, Nijay Gupta, Dave Fitch, Ingrid Faro, and visiting lectures from theologians like Amos Yong, Jonathan Tran, and Jeannine Brown, then go to www.seminary.edu

If you want to study with us at Northern and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Beth Jones, Nijay Gupta, Dave Fitch, Ingrid Faro, and visiting lectures from theologians like Amos Yong, Jonathan Tran, and Jeannine Brown, then go to www.seminary.edu

If you want to study with us at Northern and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Nijay Gupta, Jeannine Brown, Ingrid Faro, and visiting lectures from theologians like Amos Yong, Jonathan Tran, then go to www.seminary.edu

If you want to study with us at Northern and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Nijay Gupta, Jeannine Brown, Ingrid Faro, and visiting lectures from theologians like Amos Yong, Jonathan Tran, then go to www.seminary.edu

You can find out more about Amy and her work here: www.amypeeler.com

If you want to study with us and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Nijay Gupta, Jeannine Brown, Ingrid Faro, and visiting lectures from theologians like Amos Yong, Jonathan Tran, and more check us out at www.seminary.edu

Rev. Brandan Robertson is a noted author, activist, and public theologian working at the intersections of spirituality, sexuality, and social renewal. Check out more of his work here:

https://www.brandanrobertson.com/

Remember to sign up for our Theology & Mission Lectures with Sarah Coakley. 

https://www.seminary.edu/coakley/

If you want to study with us and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Nijay Gupta, Jeannine Brown, Lyn Cohick, Drew Hart, Jonathan Tran, check us out at www.seminary.edu

We are back for 2023 and broadcasting from la la land. On this episode Moore and Fitch talk about what happens when a community turns inward and self-protected--the symptoms of what Fitch calls "communal narcissism."

Remember to sign up for our Theology & Mission Lectures with Sarah Coakley. If you want to study with us and other scholars like Greg Boyd, Nijay Gupta, Jeannine Brown, Lyn Cohick, Drew Hart, Jonathan Tran, check us out at www.seminary.edu

Rev. Dr. Sarah Coakley will be delivering the lectures and we have a limited number of spots for breakfast (50 spots...and dwindling)

For listeners of the podcast we want to give you the inside scoop. Sign up here: https://www.seminary.edu/coakley/