<![CDATA[Think Outside the Boss]]>b5f14679-73c9-5bf7-8f39-07b4ba3f93adWed, 19 Aug 2026 08:00:35 +0000Captivate.fmKatie Armentrouthttps://artwork.captivate.fm/7949da0d-d9c1-4602-b941-60394b21c1b0/adfbfc01-4f17-4dda-b06d-df6f5736b4c9.jpegThink Outside the BossKatie ArmentroutKatie ArmentroutLeadership would be easy if it weren’t for the people. Think Outside the Boss is a leadership podcast for business owners, founders, and people leaders who are tired of managing team drama and ready to lead differently, more human, more effective, and with a lot less exhaustion. Hosted by Katie Armentrout, a recovering corporate leader turned entrepreneur, this show challenges traditional leadership development and replaces it with something far more useful. Clear thinking. Better conversations. And one practical action you can try right away. Through honest solo episodes and real conversations with experienced leaders, Think Outside the Boss explores proven leadership frameworks, innovative ideas, and people-first tools you can actually use. No theory for theory’s sake. No performative leadership nonsense. You’ll learn how to: - Strengthen trust and accountability without micromanaging - Navigate team conflict and communication breakdowns - Build a culture where employees feel valued and customers stay loyal - Lead people with clarity instead of control There’s no silver bullet when it comes to people. But there are better ways to think, choose, and lead. No corporate lingo bingo. No meeting after the meeting. If leadership has started to feel heavier than it should, this podcast is your invitation to Think Outside the Boss. 🎧 New episodes weekly: https://www.peoplefluence.com/podcasthttps://www.peoplefluence.com/podcastfalseepisodichttps://feeds.captivate.fm/think-outside-the-boss/nopodcast026: Her Acupuncturist Told Her to Stop or Die | Jackie Bondanza026: Her Acupuncturist Told Her to Stop or Die | Jackie BondanzaHow to scale a business without burning out starts with knowing the difference between grit that builds a company and grit that destroys the person building it. If you are the founder who cannot do anything in moderation, who runs until you almost break, this episode names exactly what that costs and what it takes to catch it before your body forces you to stop.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, talks with Jackie Bondanza, founder of Hounds Town USA, who took the pet care franchise from one location to 103 across the country and now works with founders on the systems that let them step back. Jackie explains why she implemented EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, in 2021, what it took to move from the visionary seat to the integrator seat and back again, and the moment her acupuncturist told her point blank that her body was going to shut down if she did not stop. She also shares the advice from a former boss that changed how she owns her mistakes, and the failure during COVID that taught her more than any MBA could.

If you have built something you cannot imagine walking away from, this conversation will show you how to keep building it without losing yourself.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why Jackie Bondanza says she cannot do anything in moderation, and how that same intensity that built Hounds Town USA almost broke her.
  • What it actually took to grow a doggie daycare franchise from one location to 103 across the country in thirteen years, without a business background.
  • How implementing EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, in 2021 changed the way Hounds Town runs, and why it took hiring an outside implementer to make it stick.
  • The moment Jackie's acupuncturist told her point blank that her body was going to shut down if she did not stop, and what she did next.
  • Why moving from the visionary seat to the integrator seat and back again taught Jackie more about herself than any MBA program could.
  • The advice from a former boss about owning your mistakes that Jackie still uses to lead through hard conversations today.
  • Why Jackie now does hands-on consulting and fractional integrator work for founders trying to scale from 10 or 20 units toward 100.

We talk about:

00:00 Meet Jackie Bondanza and her path from book editing to Hounds Town

01:17 When did Jackie first realize she was a leader

03:07 What her young employees needed that no training manual could teach

09:00 The train ride where she first envisioned 100 stores

12:26 The hardest phase of growth from 12 stores to 18 during COVID

15:12 Why she brought in EOS and what it took to implement it

17:23 Moving from integrator to visionary and what that shift taught her

29:40 The consulting work she started after stepping into the owner's box

30:09 Does an old dog really change, and what that taught her about leadership

36:14 What advice she gives founders chasing their own 100 unit milestone

38:44 Lightning round: DiSC, a favorite book, and best advice ever given

40:00 A failure she cherishes and the walk on song that hypes her up

Resources:


Connect with Jackie:


Connect with me


#franchiseowner #foundermindset #founderburnout #entrepreneurialoperatingsystem #EOStraction #visionaryintegrator #scalingabusiness #franchisegrowth #smallbusinessowner #petcarefranchise #leadershipdevelopment #selfawareness #businessconsulting #womeninbusiness #executivecoaching #businessowners #thinkoutsidetheboss

]]>How to scale a business without burning out starts with knowing the difference between grit that builds a company and grit that destroys the person building it. If you are the founder who cannot do anything in moderation, who runs until you almost break, this episode names exactly what that costs and what it takes to catch it before your body forces you to stop.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, talks with Jackie Bondanza, founder of Hounds Town USA, who took the pet care franchise from one location to 103 across the country and now works with founders on the systems that let them step back. Jackie explains why she implemented EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, in 2021, what it took to move from the visionary seat to the integrator seat and back again, and the moment her acupuncturist told her point blank that her body was going to shut down if she did not stop. She also shares the advice from a former boss that changed how she owns her mistakes, and the failure during COVID that taught her more than any MBA could.

If you have built something you cannot imagine walking away from, this conversation will show you how to keep building it without losing yourself.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why Jackie Bondanza says she cannot do anything in moderation, and how that same intensity that built Hounds Town USA almost broke her.
  • What it actually took to grow a doggie daycare franchise from one location to 103 across the country in thirteen years, without a business background.
  • How implementing EOS, the Entrepreneurial Operating System, in 2021 changed the way Hounds Town runs, and why it took hiring an outside implementer to make it stick.
  • The moment Jackie's acupuncturist told her point blank that her body was going to shut down if she did not stop, and what she did next.
  • Why moving from the visionary seat to the integrator seat and back again taught Jackie more about herself than any MBA program could.
  • The advice from a former boss about owning your mistakes that Jackie still uses to lead through hard conversations today.
  • Why Jackie now does hands-on consulting and fractional integrator work for founders trying to scale from 10 or 20 units toward 100.

We talk about:

00:00 Meet Jackie Bondanza and her path from book editing to Hounds Town

01:17 When did Jackie first realize she was a leader

03:07 What her young employees needed that no training manual could teach

09:00 The train ride where she first envisioned 100 stores

12:26 The hardest phase of growth from 12 stores to 18 during COVID

15:12 Why she brought in EOS and what it took to implement it

17:23 Moving from integrator to visionary and what that shift taught her

29:40 The consulting work she started after stepping into the owner's box

30:09 Does an old dog really change, and what that taught her about leadership

36:14 What advice she gives founders chasing their own 100 unit milestone

38:44 Lightning round: DiSC, a favorite book, and best advice ever given

40:00 A failure she cherishes and the walk on song that hypes her up

Resources:


Connect with Jackie:


Connect with me


#franchiseowner #foundermindset #founderburnout #entrepreneurialoperatingsystem #EOStraction #visionaryintegrator #scalingabusiness #franchisegrowth #smallbusinessowner #petcarefranchise #leadershipdevelopment #selfawareness #businessconsulting #womeninbusiness #executivecoaching #businessowners #thinkoutsidetheboss

]]>a48bce4c-1dba-4892-ba05-baecf365f5a2Wed, 19 Aug 2026 04:00:00 -040037:10falsefull2626025: You Have to Disappoint People to Lead Them | Haider Ala Hamoudi025: You Have to Disappoint People to Lead Them | Haider Ala HamoudiDifficult conversations as a leader are the ones nobody else can have for you. You can delegate almost everything, the budget, the calendar, even the hiring, but not the moment you have to tell someone their work is not working. If you find yourself softening bad news, avoiding accountability talks, or feeling guilty for disappointing your own team, you are not alone, and there is a real reason it feels this hard. Left unaddressed, that avoidance quietly costs teams trust, slows decisions, and turns small problems into resignations.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Haider Ala Hamoudi, dean of the University of Cincinnati's Donald P. Klekamp College of Law and the first Muslim dean of a law school in the United States. Haider shares what the DISC assessment revealed about his own people pleasing pattern, why he still returns to Brene Brown's idea of daring greatly, and the specific line he uses instead of softening bad news to a direct report. He also opens up about growing his law school's applications by 50 percent, reaching some of the top bar passage rates in Ohio, and landing the largest naming gift in the school's history, all without losing his team's trust.

If you lead people and hate disappointing them, this conversation will change how you think about that discomfort.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why the willingness to disappoint people, not avoiding conflict altogether, is the leadership skill Haider Ala Hamoudi says took him the longest to build.
  • How the DISC personality assessment revealed a people pleasing pattern in Haider, and the specific script he now uses to say no without losing trust.
  • What courageous leadership looks like in practice, drawing on Brene Brown's idea of daring greatly, and why vulnerability is part of that courage.
  • How Haider grew University of Cincinnati College of Law applications by 50 percent and landed the largest naming gift in the school's history.
  • Why being named America's first Muslim dean of a law school adds pressure that has nothing to do with the job itself.
  • How Haider separates conflict as a transactional lawyer from conflict as a dean managing his own team day to day.
  • Why loneliness at the top is real, and how Haider finds ways to communicate honestly without a peer to vent to daily.

We talk about:

00:00 Meet Dean Haider Ala Hamoudi and his path to leadership

00:56 The two week Harvard program that first taught him about leadership

02:04 One leadership lesson that has stuck with him the most

04:30 How Haider leads differently through difficult conversations

06:58 Does conflict feel different for a lawyer than for a dean

11:23 Being named America's first Muslim law school dean

16:29 Why Haider chose law over medicine growing up

19:18 The move from civil rights law to Islamic finance

22:04 What surprised him about leaving law practice for academia

23:40 Why leadership can feel lonely even with a team around you

30:34 Turning around a law school's budget and reputation

35:41 Lightning round: DISC, books, and his walk on song

Resources:


Connect with Haider Ala Hamoudi:


Connect with me


#leadershipdevelopment #courageousleadership #difficultconversations #peoplepleasing #teamtrust #executiveleadership #leadershipskills #accountability #daringleadership #firstgenleader #lawschoolleadership #DISCassessment #leadershipcoaching #conflictresolution #civildiscourse #businessowners #thinkoutsidetheboss

]]>Difficult conversations as a leader are the ones nobody else can have for you. You can delegate almost everything, the budget, the calendar, even the hiring, but not the moment you have to tell someone their work is not working. If you find yourself softening bad news, avoiding accountability talks, or feeling guilty for disappointing your own team, you are not alone, and there is a real reason it feels this hard. Left unaddressed, that avoidance quietly costs teams trust, slows decisions, and turns small problems into resignations.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, sits down with Haider Ala Hamoudi, dean of the University of Cincinnati's Donald P. Klekamp College of Law and the first Muslim dean of a law school in the United States. Haider shares what the DISC assessment revealed about his own people pleasing pattern, why he still returns to Brene Brown's idea of daring greatly, and the specific line he uses instead of softening bad news to a direct report. He also opens up about growing his law school's applications by 50 percent, reaching some of the top bar passage rates in Ohio, and landing the largest naming gift in the school's history, all without losing his team's trust.

If you lead people and hate disappointing them, this conversation will change how you think about that discomfort.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why the willingness to disappoint people, not avoiding conflict altogether, is the leadership skill Haider Ala Hamoudi says took him the longest to build.
  • How the DISC personality assessment revealed a people pleasing pattern in Haider, and the specific script he now uses to say no without losing trust.
  • What courageous leadership looks like in practice, drawing on Brene Brown's idea of daring greatly, and why vulnerability is part of that courage.
  • How Haider grew University of Cincinnati College of Law applications by 50 percent and landed the largest naming gift in the school's history.
  • Why being named America's first Muslim dean of a law school adds pressure that has nothing to do with the job itself.
  • How Haider separates conflict as a transactional lawyer from conflict as a dean managing his own team day to day.
  • Why loneliness at the top is real, and how Haider finds ways to communicate honestly without a peer to vent to daily.

We talk about:

00:00 Meet Dean Haider Ala Hamoudi and his path to leadership

00:56 The two week Harvard program that first taught him about leadership

02:04 One leadership lesson that has stuck with him the most

04:30 How Haider leads differently through difficult conversations

06:58 Does conflict feel different for a lawyer than for a dean

11:23 Being named America's first Muslim law school dean

16:29 Why Haider chose law over medicine growing up

19:18 The move from civil rights law to Islamic finance

22:04 What surprised him about leaving law practice for academia

23:40 Why leadership can feel lonely even with a team around you

30:34 Turning around a law school's budget and reputation

35:41 Lightning round: DISC, books, and his walk on song

Resources:


Connect with Haider Ala Hamoudi:


Connect with me


#leadershipdevelopment #courageousleadership #difficultconversations #peoplepleasing #teamtrust #executiveleadership #leadershipskills #accountability #daringleadership #firstgenleader #lawschoolleadership #DISCassessment #leadershipcoaching #conflictresolution #civildiscourse #businessowners #thinkoutsidetheboss

]]>b1322fd0-48f5-431b-a6b3-9215d70709cfWed, 12 Aug 2026 04:00:00 -040034:44falsefull2525024: Why Does Screen Time Feel Like a Constant Fight? | Katie Armentrout024: Why Does Screen Time Feel Like a Constant Fight? | Katie ArmentroutA screen time framework is a way of deciding how your kids use their screens, not just how long they are on them. If you are tired of fighting over timers and hourly limits, you are not alone, and the fight itself is about to change. In January 2026, the American Academy of Pediatrics moved away from strict hourly rules toward guidance built on quality and context, the exact shift Katie Armentrout has already been making at home for years.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, built the Six E's of screen time (entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, and engage) after asking herself one simple question on a dog walk: what am I actually using this phone for? In this solo episode, she walks through each E with real examples from her own house of three kids, explains why escape is the one to watch most closely, and shares the exact script she uses to help her own kids learn to manage their screen time. Download her free Six E's one pager and start the conversation with your family before the new school year begins.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • A screen time framework built around purpose, not hours, and the one question Katie asks before handing over any device: what are you using this for right now?
  • The Six E's of screen time: entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, and engage, and how naming the purpose behind a screen session changes the outcome for kids and adults alike.
  • Why escape is the riskiest of the Six E's, how it quietly turns into doom scrolling, and the warning signs Katie watches for with her own three kids.
  • How much of a message actually lands in a text versus a phone call, and why that changes how you should engage with people through a screen.
  • Why Katie's family keeps three screen free days a week in the summer, and what happens to that rule once homework enters the picture.
  • A simple script to ask your kids, or yourself, before every screen session so they eventually learn to manage their own screen time without you standing over their shoulder.
  • Where to download Katie's free Six E's one pager so you can print it and talk through it with your own kids before the new school year starts.

We talk about:

00:00 Why screen time is the wrong question to ask

00:32 Meet Katie's three kids and their three different stages

01:36 Why Katie actually loves screen time some days

02:24 What's the real problem with time based limits

03:08 How the Six E's framework was born on a dog walk

04:03 The Six E's revealed: entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, engage

05:27 Escape, the riskiest of the Six E's

07:19 Errands, why your phone does more than you think

09:45 How much of communication is really tone of voice

12:04 How to use the Six E's with your own kids today

17:01 Why Katie's family keeps screen free days in summer

23:00 Get the free Six E's one pager

Resources:


Connect with me


#screentime #parentingtips #screentimeforkids #digitalwellness #healthyhabits #parentinghacks #screenfree #digitalparenting #parentingadvice #raisingkids #familyrules #middleschoolparenting #parentingteens #mindfultech #backtoschool #parentingpodcast #thinkoutsidetheboss

]]>A screen time framework is a way of deciding how your kids use their screens, not just how long they are on them. If you are tired of fighting over timers and hourly limits, you are not alone, and the fight itself is about to change. In January 2026, the American Academy of Pediatrics moved away from strict hourly rules toward guidance built on quality and context, the exact shift Katie Armentrout has already been making at home for years.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and host of Think Outside the Boss, built the Six E's of screen time (entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, and engage) after asking herself one simple question on a dog walk: what am I actually using this phone for? In this solo episode, she walks through each E with real examples from her own house of three kids, explains why escape is the one to watch most closely, and shares the exact script she uses to help her own kids learn to manage their screen time. Download her free Six E's one pager and start the conversation with your family before the new school year begins.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • A screen time framework built around purpose, not hours, and the one question Katie asks before handing over any device: what are you using this for right now?
  • The Six E's of screen time: entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, and engage, and how naming the purpose behind a screen session changes the outcome for kids and adults alike.
  • Why escape is the riskiest of the Six E's, how it quietly turns into doom scrolling, and the warning signs Katie watches for with her own three kids.
  • How much of a message actually lands in a text versus a phone call, and why that changes how you should engage with people through a screen.
  • Why Katie's family keeps three screen free days a week in the summer, and what happens to that rule once homework enters the picture.
  • A simple script to ask your kids, or yourself, before every screen session so they eventually learn to manage their own screen time without you standing over their shoulder.
  • Where to download Katie's free Six E's one pager so you can print it and talk through it with your own kids before the new school year starts.

We talk about:

00:00 Why screen time is the wrong question to ask

00:32 Meet Katie's three kids and their three different stages

01:36 Why Katie actually loves screen time some days

02:24 What's the real problem with time based limits

03:08 How the Six E's framework was born on a dog walk

04:03 The Six E's revealed: entertain, educate, escape, earn, errands, engage

05:27 Escape, the riskiest of the Six E's

07:19 Errands, why your phone does more than you think

09:45 How much of communication is really tone of voice

12:04 How to use the Six E's with your own kids today

17:01 Why Katie's family keeps screen free days in summer

23:00 Get the free Six E's one pager

Resources:


Connect with me


#screentime #parentingtips #screentimeforkids #digitalwellness #healthyhabits #parentinghacks #screenfree #digitalparenting #parentingadvice #raisingkids #familyrules #middleschoolparenting #parentingteens #mindfultech #backtoschool #parentingpodcast #thinkoutsidetheboss

]]>52f062c9-f2e3-42a8-8ab6-8c01f5bd90faWed, 05 Aug 2026 04:00:00 -040021:15falsefull2424023: A CEO's Playbook for Leading with Kindness | Simona Costantini023: A CEO's Playbook for Leading with Kindness | Simona CostantiniHow to lead with kindness and care starts with letting go of the idea that leadership only looks like one person at the head of the table. If you've ever doubted whether you're leader enough because you don't fit that image, this episode reframes what real leadership looks like day to day.

Simona Costantini, founder and CEO of VOLT Productions, an award winning podcast agency running over 20 shows a week, joins host Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, to unpack the four values, kindness, care, connection, and integrity, that guide every decision she makes as a leader. Simona also shares why most podcasts stall by episode seven and how direct feedback, done right, is one of the clearest expressions of care a leader can offer.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why leadership doesn't require sitting at the head of the table, and how Simona realized she had been leading for years before she ever called herself a leader.
  • The four values, kindness, care, connection, and integrity, that Simona built her business around, and why she holds clients to the exact same standard as her team.
  • Why direct feedback is one of the clearest ways a leader shows care, and how Simona reframes tough creative notes so they build trust instead of tension.
  • The three questions every new podcast client has to answer before recording a single episode: what the show is about, who it's for, and why they should care.
  • Why up to 80% of new podcasts never make it past episode seven, and why the real cause has less to do with content than with how the show was planned from the start.
  • How Simona uses human design types like generator and projector to explain why some leaders have nonstop energy while others need to be invited to speak up.
  • The sticky note Simona wrote to herself in 2020 that predicted, almost to the month, when she would finally leave corporate leadership behind for good.

We talk about:

00:00 The biggest differentiator between growing podcasts and stalled ones

00:37 Introducing Simona Costantini and VOLT Productions

02:14 When Simona first realized she was a leader

05:19 From crisis communications to launching VOLT in 2021

10:45 The sticky note that predicted her exit from corporate

13:00 Why she renamed the agency from Costantini Productions to VOLT

16:00 The four values behind every decision she makes as a leader

21:29 What actually separates growing podcasts from the ones that stall

24:54 Why most podcasts never make it past episode seven

32:02 Why direct feedback is one of the clearest ways to show care

43:10 Lightning round, human design, and the best advice from her grandma

Resources:


Connect with Simona


Connect with me


#Leadership #LeadershipValues #FeedbackCulture #WomenEntrepreneurs #PodcastGrowth #PodcastStrategy #BusinessLeadership #CorporateToEntrepreneur #DirectFeedback #HumanDesign #EntrepreneurMindset #PodcastProduction #ServantLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #ContentStrategy #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

]]>How to lead with kindness and care starts with letting go of the idea that leadership only looks like one person at the head of the table. If you've ever doubted whether you're leader enough because you don't fit that image, this episode reframes what real leadership looks like day to day.

Simona Costantini, founder and CEO of VOLT Productions, an award winning podcast agency running over 20 shows a week, joins host Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, to unpack the four values, kindness, care, connection, and integrity, that guide every decision she makes as a leader. Simona also shares why most podcasts stall by episode seven and how direct feedback, done right, is one of the clearest expressions of care a leader can offer.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why leadership doesn't require sitting at the head of the table, and how Simona realized she had been leading for years before she ever called herself a leader.
  • The four values, kindness, care, connection, and integrity, that Simona built her business around, and why she holds clients to the exact same standard as her team.
  • Why direct feedback is one of the clearest ways a leader shows care, and how Simona reframes tough creative notes so they build trust instead of tension.
  • The three questions every new podcast client has to answer before recording a single episode: what the show is about, who it's for, and why they should care.
  • Why up to 80% of new podcasts never make it past episode seven, and why the real cause has less to do with content than with how the show was planned from the start.
  • How Simona uses human design types like generator and projector to explain why some leaders have nonstop energy while others need to be invited to speak up.
  • The sticky note Simona wrote to herself in 2020 that predicted, almost to the month, when she would finally leave corporate leadership behind for good.

We talk about:

00:00 The biggest differentiator between growing podcasts and stalled ones

00:37 Introducing Simona Costantini and VOLT Productions

02:14 When Simona first realized she was a leader

05:19 From crisis communications to launching VOLT in 2021

10:45 The sticky note that predicted her exit from corporate

13:00 Why she renamed the agency from Costantini Productions to VOLT

16:00 The four values behind every decision she makes as a leader

21:29 What actually separates growing podcasts from the ones that stall

24:54 Why most podcasts never make it past episode seven

32:02 Why direct feedback is one of the clearest ways to show care

43:10 Lightning round, human design, and the best advice from her grandma

Resources:


Connect with Simona


Connect with me


#Leadership #LeadershipValues #FeedbackCulture #WomenEntrepreneurs #PodcastGrowth #PodcastStrategy #BusinessLeadership #CorporateToEntrepreneur #DirectFeedback #HumanDesign #EntrepreneurMindset #PodcastProduction #ServantLeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #ContentStrategy #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

]]>a4675e68-86c5-4ba3-896e-0eb5c1b3a572Wed, 29 Jul 2026 04:00:00 -040051:20falsefull2323022: 70% of New Customers Quit Before Day 100 | Joey Coleman022: 70% of New Customers Quit Before Day 100 | Joey ColemanThe first 100 days methodology is the reason some businesses keep customers for years while others watch them disappear before the ink is dry. If you have ever wondered why a promising new hire quit within months, or why a happy sounding customer never came back, the first 100 days are where the answer lives. Research shows that 20 to 70% of new customers, and a strikingly similar share of new hires, never make it past this window, and most leaders have no idea it is happening.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and a leadership consultant for executive teams, sits down with Joey Coleman, the two time Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Never Lose a Customer Again and Never Lose an Employee Again. Joey walks through the real numbers behind customer and employee churn, from banking at 32% to auto mechanics at 68%, and explains what changes once a relationship survives day 100. You will walk away with a new lens for your own onboarding, whether you are welcoming a customer or a new hire.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why the first 100 days methodology matters: 20 to 70% of new customers quit before their 100 day anniversary, and the numbers on the employee side are nearly identical.
  • Why 40% of new hires never make it to their one year anniversary, and why more than half of those departures happen inside the first 100 days.
  • Why a net neutral customer experience is actually a negative experience, and what that means for how you design onboarding today.
  • How Joey Coleman built his customer experience career through unlikely stops at the Secret Service, the White House, and the CIA.
  • Joey's practical test for spotting broken customer experience: if your team ever says "it's our policy," you are telling customers not to come back.
  • Why customers who reach day 101 feeling valued and appreciated typically stay for a minimum of five years.
  • Why the persistence that makes a 13 year old exhausting to parent is the same trait that makes them successful at 30.

We talk about:

00:00 Joey's advice for people who ask to pick his brain

01:15 Welcome and Joey Coleman's introduction

01:35 When did Joey first realize he was a leader, not a boss?

04:29 Growing up as the oldest of seven and learning persuasion

08:07 From the Secret Service and White House to customer experience

13:00 What draws someone to customer experience over sales

14:59 The professor who changed his career path

27:52 How Joey met his wife at a coworking space

34:57 Why do 20 to 70% of new customers quit before day 100?

39:00 The real cost of a bad onboarding experience for employees

43:35 Lightning round: books, love languages, and hype songs

Resources:


Connect with Joey


Connect with me


#First100Days #CustomerRetention #EmployeeRetention #CustomerExperience #EmployeeExperience #NeverLoseACustomerAgain #NeverLoseAnEmployeeAgain #LeadershipDevelopment #EmployeeOnboarding #CustomerOnboarding #JoeyColeman #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #KatieArmentrout #Peoplefluence #LeadershipPodcast #BusinessLeadership #EmployeeTurnover #CustomerChurn #ExecutiveLeadership #TeamCulture

]]>The first 100 days methodology is the reason some businesses keep customers for years while others watch them disappear before the ink is dry. If you have ever wondered why a promising new hire quit within months, or why a happy sounding customer never came back, the first 100 days are where the answer lives. Research shows that 20 to 70% of new customers, and a strikingly similar share of new hires, never make it past this window, and most leaders have no idea it is happening.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence and a leadership consultant for executive teams, sits down with Joey Coleman, the two time Wall Street Journal bestselling author of Never Lose a Customer Again and Never Lose an Employee Again. Joey walks through the real numbers behind customer and employee churn, from banking at 32% to auto mechanics at 68%, and explains what changes once a relationship survives day 100. You will walk away with a new lens for your own onboarding, whether you are welcoming a customer or a new hire.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why the first 100 days methodology matters: 20 to 70% of new customers quit before their 100 day anniversary, and the numbers on the employee side are nearly identical.
  • Why 40% of new hires never make it to their one year anniversary, and why more than half of those departures happen inside the first 100 days.
  • Why a net neutral customer experience is actually a negative experience, and what that means for how you design onboarding today.
  • How Joey Coleman built his customer experience career through unlikely stops at the Secret Service, the White House, and the CIA.
  • Joey's practical test for spotting broken customer experience: if your team ever says "it's our policy," you are telling customers not to come back.
  • Why customers who reach day 101 feeling valued and appreciated typically stay for a minimum of five years.
  • Why the persistence that makes a 13 year old exhausting to parent is the same trait that makes them successful at 30.

We talk about:

00:00 Joey's advice for people who ask to pick his brain

01:15 Welcome and Joey Coleman's introduction

01:35 When did Joey first realize he was a leader, not a boss?

04:29 Growing up as the oldest of seven and learning persuasion

08:07 From the Secret Service and White House to customer experience

13:00 What draws someone to customer experience over sales

14:59 The professor who changed his career path

27:52 How Joey met his wife at a coworking space

34:57 Why do 20 to 70% of new customers quit before day 100?

39:00 The real cost of a bad onboarding experience for employees

43:35 Lightning round: books, love languages, and hype songs

Resources:


Connect with Joey


Connect with me


#First100Days #CustomerRetention #EmployeeRetention #CustomerExperience #EmployeeExperience #NeverLoseACustomerAgain #NeverLoseAnEmployeeAgain #LeadershipDevelopment #EmployeeOnboarding #CustomerOnboarding #JoeyColeman #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #KatieArmentrout #Peoplefluence #LeadershipPodcast #BusinessLeadership #EmployeeTurnover #CustomerChurn #ExecutiveLeadership #TeamCulture

]]>56edd71c-1e09-4082-8575-a098a62c88faWed, 22 Jul 2026 04:00:00 -040053:32falsefull2222021: Are You Retiring 10 Years Too Early? | Derek Coburn021: Are You Retiring 10 Years Too Early? | Derek CoburnRetirement planning for entrepreneurs usually starts with the wrong question: how much do you need to save by 65? If you've been telling yourself you'll finally rest, travel, and enjoy life once you hit that number, this conversation is going to challenge your timeline.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, sits down with Derek Coburn, a financial advisor with 27 years in the industry and USA Today bestselling author of Let's Retire Retirement, to break down why the traditional retirement model is failing so many business owners.

Derek walks through his Tale of Two Tonys math, showing how pushing retirement back five to ten years can cut your required monthly savings by up to 96 percent, then shares how he built a business and parenting rhythm around presence instead of postponement. If you're building something now and still waiting for someday to start living fully, this episode hands you the numbers and the mindset to start today.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why the traditional retirement math almost always overestimates how much you actually need, and how shifting your target retirement age by just five to ten years changes the entire equation.
  • How Derek's Tale of Two Tonys breaks down the real dollar difference between retiring at 65 versus 70 or 75, using one client's actual numbers.
  • Why financial advisors are financially incentivized to keep you saving and working longer, and the one question you should be asking about your own plan.
  • How to build a business and a life around presence instead of postponement, including the exact schedule Derek uses to be done working by three o'clock.
  • Why finding a job you don't hate can beat chasing a job you love, and what that reframe means if you're a burned out business owner right now.
  • How Derek uses intentional car rides and a recurring family Q&A to build real connection with his teenage sons before they leave for college.
  • Why the skills, relationships, and income you build in your 40s and 50s make it easier, not harder, to earn money later in life.

We talk about:

00:00 Why the traditional retirement model is failing you

00:50 When Derek first realized he was a leader

04:00 The book passage that sparked this conversation

05:23 The Tale of Two Tonys retirement math explained

07:21 Why Derek cut his client base by 75 percent

09:00 What happens if every advisor adopted this approach

13:05 What do you say to someone who says they can't do this

18:41 The moment that changed Derek's relationship with time

19:32 How to teach your kids a healthy money mindset

26:32 What if you're already in your 60s with regret

34:37 How to prepare for a 30 minute car ride with your kid

41:59 Derek's favorite personality test and walkout song

Resources:


Connect with Derek


Connect with me


#RetirementPlanning #FinancialFreedom #RetireLater #FinancialAdvisor #EntrepreneurLife #BusinessOwnerLife #WorkLifeBalance #IntentionalLiving #ParentingTips #MoneyMindset #WealthBuilding #Unretirement #DelayedRetirement #PresentOverPerfect #LeadershipPodcast #BusinessOwners #FinancialIndependence #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

]]>Retirement planning for entrepreneurs usually starts with the wrong question: how much do you need to save by 65? If you've been telling yourself you'll finally rest, travel, and enjoy life once you hit that number, this conversation is going to challenge your timeline.

Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, sits down with Derek Coburn, a financial advisor with 27 years in the industry and USA Today bestselling author of Let's Retire Retirement, to break down why the traditional retirement model is failing so many business owners.

Derek walks through his Tale of Two Tonys math, showing how pushing retirement back five to ten years can cut your required monthly savings by up to 96 percent, then shares how he built a business and parenting rhythm around presence instead of postponement. If you're building something now and still waiting for someday to start living fully, this episode hands you the numbers and the mindset to start today.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why the traditional retirement math almost always overestimates how much you actually need, and how shifting your target retirement age by just five to ten years changes the entire equation.
  • How Derek's Tale of Two Tonys breaks down the real dollar difference between retiring at 65 versus 70 or 75, using one client's actual numbers.
  • Why financial advisors are financially incentivized to keep you saving and working longer, and the one question you should be asking about your own plan.
  • How to build a business and a life around presence instead of postponement, including the exact schedule Derek uses to be done working by three o'clock.
  • Why finding a job you don't hate can beat chasing a job you love, and what that reframe means if you're a burned out business owner right now.
  • How Derek uses intentional car rides and a recurring family Q&A to build real connection with his teenage sons before they leave for college.
  • Why the skills, relationships, and income you build in your 40s and 50s make it easier, not harder, to earn money later in life.

We talk about:

00:00 Why the traditional retirement model is failing you

00:50 When Derek first realized he was a leader

04:00 The book passage that sparked this conversation

05:23 The Tale of Two Tonys retirement math explained

07:21 Why Derek cut his client base by 75 percent

09:00 What happens if every advisor adopted this approach

13:05 What do you say to someone who says they can't do this

18:41 The moment that changed Derek's relationship with time

19:32 How to teach your kids a healthy money mindset

26:32 What if you're already in your 60s with regret

34:37 How to prepare for a 30 minute car ride with your kid

41:59 Derek's favorite personality test and walkout song

Resources:


Connect with Derek


Connect with me


#RetirementPlanning #FinancialFreedom #RetireLater #FinancialAdvisor #EntrepreneurLife #BusinessOwnerLife #WorkLifeBalance #IntentionalLiving #ParentingTips #MoneyMindset #WealthBuilding #Unretirement #DelayedRetirement #PresentOverPerfect #LeadershipPodcast #BusinessOwners #FinancialIndependence #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

]]>2bb33b6d-6b70-46f4-a6e8-c82f46f004c1Wed, 15 Jul 2026 04:00:00 -040047:25falsefull2121020: Are You Building Culture Or Just Enforcing Rules | Katie Armentrout020: Are You Building Culture Or Just Enforcing Rules | Katie ArmentroutA hybrid work policy for leaders is not really about where your team sits, it's about the culture you are willing to build and defend. If you are stuck debating remote versus in-office, you are asking the wrong question.

This episode reframes hybrid work, return to office, and remote work policy around one thing: intention. Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, spent 20 years in corporate leadership before building her practice around helping executive teams cut through conflict and drama. In this episode, she breaks down how Dropbox, Microsoft, and Goldman Sachs each built radically different work policies that work, and why the difference wasn't remote versus in-office, it was clarity versus arbitrary rules.

You will walk away with three leadership principles you can apply before you write another policy.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why forcing a hybrid work policy from the top down without a clear culture behind it creates arbitrary rules that erode trust and drive turnover.
  • How Dropbox's Virtual First model produced a threefold increase in job applicants, 15 percent faster time to hire, and a 16 percent increase in diverse candidates.
  • Why Microsoft stopped counting office days and started designing specific office moments for kickoffs, creative sessions, and complex problem solving instead.
  • How Goldman Sachs justifies its five day in office mandate through an apprenticeship model, and what CEO David Solomon says is actually driving that decision.
  • The three leadership principles to apply before setting any policy: people follow the culture you build, design for the experience not the expectation, and leaders are the policy.
  • Why the hybrid versus remote debate really only applies to knowledge workers, and what that means if you lead a team in healthcare, retail, or manufacturing.
  • The gut check questions to ask your own team about where your culture actually stands today versus where you want it to be.

We talk about:

00:00 Why your hybrid work policy might be the wrong question

00:38 The viral Instagram clip that sparked this episode

03:05 Three leadership principles before you set a policy

07:19 Dropbox's Virtual First case study 13:26 Microsoft's office moments, not mandates

22:00 Goldman Sachs and the five day apprenticeship model

27:19 Is remote work really only a knowledge worker debate?

27:55 Gut check, where are you on the continuum?

30:21 The three principles recap for leaders 31:17 How to reframe the hybrid work conversation for good

Resources:


Connect with me


#HybridWork #ReturnToOffice #WorkplaceCulture #Leadership #ExecutiveLeadership #PeopleManagement #CultureBuilding #RemoteWork #LeadershipDevelopment #EmployeeRetention #WorkplaceTrust #TeamCulture #CEOLife #HRLeadership #ModernLeadership #BusinessCulture #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

]]>A hybrid work policy for leaders is not really about where your team sits, it's about the culture you are willing to build and defend. If you are stuck debating remote versus in-office, you are asking the wrong question.

This episode reframes hybrid work, return to office, and remote work policy around one thing: intention. Katie Armentrout, founder of Peoplefluence, spent 20 years in corporate leadership before building her practice around helping executive teams cut through conflict and drama. In this episode, she breaks down how Dropbox, Microsoft, and Goldman Sachs each built radically different work policies that work, and why the difference wasn't remote versus in-office, it was clarity versus arbitrary rules.

You will walk away with three leadership principles you can apply before you write another policy.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why forcing a hybrid work policy from the top down without a clear culture behind it creates arbitrary rules that erode trust and drive turnover.
  • How Dropbox's Virtual First model produced a threefold increase in job applicants, 15 percent faster time to hire, and a 16 percent increase in diverse candidates.
  • Why Microsoft stopped counting office days and started designing specific office moments for kickoffs, creative sessions, and complex problem solving instead.
  • How Goldman Sachs justifies its five day in office mandate through an apprenticeship model, and what CEO David Solomon says is actually driving that decision.
  • The three leadership principles to apply before setting any policy: people follow the culture you build, design for the experience not the expectation, and leaders are the policy.
  • Why the hybrid versus remote debate really only applies to knowledge workers, and what that means if you lead a team in healthcare, retail, or manufacturing.
  • The gut check questions to ask your own team about where your culture actually stands today versus where you want it to be.

We talk about:

00:00 Why your hybrid work policy might be the wrong question

00:38 The viral Instagram clip that sparked this episode

03:05 Three leadership principles before you set a policy

07:19 Dropbox's Virtual First case study 13:26 Microsoft's office moments, not mandates

22:00 Goldman Sachs and the five day apprenticeship model

27:19 Is remote work really only a knowledge worker debate?

27:55 Gut check, where are you on the continuum?

30:21 The three principles recap for leaders 31:17 How to reframe the hybrid work conversation for good

Resources:


Connect with me


#HybridWork #ReturnToOffice #WorkplaceCulture #Leadership #ExecutiveLeadership #PeopleManagement #CultureBuilding #RemoteWork #LeadershipDevelopment #EmployeeRetention #WorkplaceTrust #TeamCulture #CEOLife #HRLeadership #ModernLeadership #BusinessCulture #ThinkOutsideTheBoss

]]>4848f354-b5f7-467a-8c9d-dab67a28e9a8Wed, 08 Jul 2026 04:00:00 -040024:09falsefull2020019: 94% of Companies Get No Real Value From AI. Here's Why | Alyssa Fenoglio019: 94% of Companies Get No Real Value From AI. Here's Why | Alyssa FenoglioAI strategy for leaders is not about choosing the right tools. It is about closing the gap between AI ambition and real business results. Right now, 88% of companies are using AI in at least one function, yet only 6% report getting substantial value, defined as five or more points of EBIT impact.

That gap is not a technology problem. It is a leadership problem, and most executive teams do not have a playbook to fix it.

In this episode, Katie Armentrout, leadership consultant and founder of Peoplefluence, sits down with Alyssa Fenoglio, founder of The Human Algorithm and a 20-year veteran of P&G, Medtronic, and several global healthcare companies. Alyssa shares the two defining differences between companies that win with AI and the 94% that do not: a grander growth ambition and a willingness to redesign workflows from the ground up.

You will walk away with a way to think about AI that is less about technology and more about how leaders actually make it work.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why 80% of companies are overindexing on efficiency as their primary AI objective, and why it is limiting their results.
  • What the top 6% of AI high-performing companies do differently, including setting growth and innovation objectives alongside efficiency goals.
  • How the Human Algorithm framework helps executive teams close the gap between AI ambition and measurable business value.
  • Why Alyssa says AI high performers are nearly three times more likely to redesign workflows, and what that looks like in practice.
  • The two critical skills leaders need in the AI era: strategic framing and judgment, including knowing when to bring AI in and when to lead with your own thinking first.
  • Why most companies still have time to build a competitive advantage with AI, even if they feel behind, and where to start.

We talk about:

00:00 Why most AI strategies are not moving the business forward

03:30 How Alyssa's leadership foundation was built through athletics

06:45 What formative career moments shaped her values as a leader

12:00 How AI shows up differently for corporate leaders vs. entrepreneurs

15:20 Why 94% of companies are not seeing real value from AI

18:30 What makes the top 6% of AI high performers different

22:00 How to stay agile with AI tools without chasing every trend

25:00 The case for leading with your own thinking before handing off to AI

27:30 What is The Human Algorithm and how does it work?

31:00 Why AI principles transfer across industries, not just within one

33:20 Lightning round: personality assessments, Culture Map, gut instinct, and hype songs

Resources:


Connect with Alyssa


Connect with me


#AIStrategyForLeaders #HumanAlgorithm #AILeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #ExecutiveLeadership #AITransformation #AIAdoption #ChangeManagement #HumanCenteredAI #AIAndBusiness #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #KatieArmentrout #PeopleFluence #LeadershipPodcast #AIForExecutives #AIValueGap #OrganizationalChange #BusinessLeadership #WorkforceAndAI #AIHighPerformers

]]>AI strategy for leaders is not about choosing the right tools. It is about closing the gap between AI ambition and real business results. Right now, 88% of companies are using AI in at least one function, yet only 6% report getting substantial value, defined as five or more points of EBIT impact.

That gap is not a technology problem. It is a leadership problem, and most executive teams do not have a playbook to fix it.

In this episode, Katie Armentrout, leadership consultant and founder of Peoplefluence, sits down with Alyssa Fenoglio, founder of The Human Algorithm and a 20-year veteran of P&G, Medtronic, and several global healthcare companies. Alyssa shares the two defining differences between companies that win with AI and the 94% that do not: a grander growth ambition and a willingness to redesign workflows from the ground up.

You will walk away with a way to think about AI that is less about technology and more about how leaders actually make it work.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why 80% of companies are overindexing on efficiency as their primary AI objective, and why it is limiting their results.
  • What the top 6% of AI high-performing companies do differently, including setting growth and innovation objectives alongside efficiency goals.
  • How the Human Algorithm framework helps executive teams close the gap between AI ambition and measurable business value.
  • Why Alyssa says AI high performers are nearly three times more likely to redesign workflows, and what that looks like in practice.
  • The two critical skills leaders need in the AI era: strategic framing and judgment, including knowing when to bring AI in and when to lead with your own thinking first.
  • Why most companies still have time to build a competitive advantage with AI, even if they feel behind, and where to start.

We talk about:

00:00 Why most AI strategies are not moving the business forward

03:30 How Alyssa's leadership foundation was built through athletics

06:45 What formative career moments shaped her values as a leader

12:00 How AI shows up differently for corporate leaders vs. entrepreneurs

15:20 Why 94% of companies are not seeing real value from AI

18:30 What makes the top 6% of AI high performers different

22:00 How to stay agile with AI tools without chasing every trend

25:00 The case for leading with your own thinking before handing off to AI

27:30 What is The Human Algorithm and how does it work?

31:00 Why AI principles transfer across industries, not just within one

33:20 Lightning round: personality assessments, Culture Map, gut instinct, and hype songs

Resources:


Connect with Alyssa


Connect with me


#AIStrategyForLeaders #HumanAlgorithm #AILeadership #LeadershipDevelopment #ExecutiveLeadership #AITransformation #AIAdoption #ChangeManagement #HumanCenteredAI #AIAndBusiness #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #KatieArmentrout #PeopleFluence #LeadershipPodcast #AIForExecutives #AIValueGap #OrganizationalChange #BusinessLeadership #WorkforceAndAI #AIHighPerformers

]]>46475f79-0e26-4175-975d-7d4e1299d12fWed, 01 Jul 2026 04:00:00 -040039:58falsefull1919018: Liked AND Respected: The Status Formula for Women | Alison Fragale018: Liked AND Respected: The Status Formula for Women | Alison FragaleWomen status at work is not the same as power, and that distinction could be the most important thing your career has been missing. Most women have been told to work harder, get the promotion, earn the title. But if the people around you don't respect and regard you, none of that moves you forward. You can have the degree, the credentials, and the job offer, and still be overlooked.

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, host and recovering corporate leader Katie Armentrout sits down with Dr. Alison Fragale, organizational psychologist, professor at UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School, and national bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. Alison breaks down the science of status, why being authentic and being strategic are not opposites, and exactly how women can build the kind of reputation that earns them a seat at the table. You'll walk away with a new way to think about influence, self-promotion, and the relationships that make or break your career.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why status and power are not the same thing, and why chasing power without building status is costing women at work
  • How the Likeable Badass Framework helps you build both warmth and authority so you can be genuinely liked and deeply respected at the same time
  • The self-promotion strategy Alison learned from a difficult boss at McKinsey and how it changed the way she shows up professionally
  • Why authentic and strategic are not opposites, and how to show up as a real version of yourself while still being intentional about how others perceive you
  • How to practice negotiation and advocacy in low-stakes environments so you are ready when it actually matters
  • The subtle allyship behavior that builds someone else's status without a single grand gesture, and how anyone can use it
  • Why "don't care what other people think" is advice that will actually hurt your career, and what to do instead

We talk about:

00:00 Why liked and respected is not a trade-off for women

03:30 Alison's career pivot from McKinsey to organizational psychology

07:00 The status vs. power distinction that changes everything

10:30 How to practice negotiation in low-risk everyday situations

14:00 How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant

17:30 Why authentic and strategic can coexist

20:00 What does caring about what others think actually mean?

25:00 How to decide whose opinion of you actually matters

28:00 The subtle allyship move that builds someone else's status

34:00 What the research says about women and workplace influence

38:00 Books that changed the way Alison works and sleeps

43:00 The best advice Alison has ever received

46:00 Lightning round: personality assessments, deep work, and walk-on music

Resources:


Connect with Alison


Connect with me


#WomenAtWork #WomenLeadership #WorkplaceInfluence #StatusVsPower #LikeableBadass #AllisonFragale #WomenInBusiness #LeadershipForWomen #HowToGetRespected #WorkplaceAdvice #NegotiationTips #WomenCareer #AuthenticLeadership #CareerGrowthTips #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #LeadershipPodcast #CareerDevelopment #WomenEmpowerment

]]>Women status at work is not the same as power, and that distinction could be the most important thing your career has been missing. Most women have been told to work harder, get the promotion, earn the title. But if the people around you don't respect and regard you, none of that moves you forward. You can have the degree, the credentials, and the job offer, and still be overlooked.

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, host and recovering corporate leader Katie Armentrout sits down with Dr. Alison Fragale, organizational psychologist, professor at UNC Kenan-Flagler Business School, and national bestselling author of Likeable Badass: How Women Get the Success They Deserve. Alison breaks down the science of status, why being authentic and being strategic are not opposites, and exactly how women can build the kind of reputation that earns them a seat at the table. You'll walk away with a new way to think about influence, self-promotion, and the relationships that make or break your career.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why status and power are not the same thing, and why chasing power without building status is costing women at work
  • How the Likeable Badass Framework helps you build both warmth and authority so you can be genuinely liked and deeply respected at the same time
  • The self-promotion strategy Alison learned from a difficult boss at McKinsey and how it changed the way she shows up professionally
  • Why authentic and strategic are not opposites, and how to show up as a real version of yourself while still being intentional about how others perceive you
  • How to practice negotiation and advocacy in low-stakes environments so you are ready when it actually matters
  • The subtle allyship behavior that builds someone else's status without a single grand gesture, and how anyone can use it
  • Why "don't care what other people think" is advice that will actually hurt your career, and what to do instead

We talk about:

00:00 Why liked and respected is not a trade-off for women

03:30 Alison's career pivot from McKinsey to organizational psychology

07:00 The status vs. power distinction that changes everything

10:30 How to practice negotiation in low-risk everyday situations

14:00 How to talk about yourself without sounding arrogant

17:30 Why authentic and strategic can coexist

20:00 What does caring about what others think actually mean?

25:00 How to decide whose opinion of you actually matters

28:00 The subtle allyship move that builds someone else's status

34:00 What the research says about women and workplace influence

38:00 Books that changed the way Alison works and sleeps

43:00 The best advice Alison has ever received

46:00 Lightning round: personality assessments, deep work, and walk-on music

Resources:


Connect with Alison


Connect with me


#WomenAtWork #WomenLeadership #WorkplaceInfluence #StatusVsPower #LikeableBadass #AllisonFragale #WomenInBusiness #LeadershipForWomen #HowToGetRespected #WorkplaceAdvice #NegotiationTips #WomenCareer #AuthenticLeadership #CareerGrowthTips #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #LeadershipPodcast #CareerDevelopment #WomenEmpowerment

]]>f77762ab-5945-4688-a183-e1acb2134b95Wed, 24 Jun 2026 04:00:00 -040047:29falsefull1818017: How to Actually Manage a Hybrid Team When Half Your Strategy Is Not Working | Nate Challen017: How to Actually Manage a Hybrid Team When Half Your Strategy Is Not Working | Nate ChallenNate Challen did not set out to become the person companies call when the future of work breaks down. It happened because he kept landing at the front edge of change before anyone else knew it was coming.

He started at Ancestry.com building one of the first social platforms before social media existed. He led global teams out of Frankfurt with people in France, Germany, the UK, Singapore, and South America. He ran Canada for Sanofi as a general manager with barely 5 percent of his boss's attention and a full cross-functional team looking to him for every decision. And then COVID hit and the rest of the world caught up to what he had already been navigating for years.

In this conversation, Nate and Katie get into the leadership questions most people are too comfortable to ask honestly. What actually makes hybrid work, and why most companies are doing it wrong. What happens when you get promoted over the peer sitting next to you. Why the best leaders ask about ambition before they start coaching. And what it means to find teammates instead of competitors everywhere you go, including business school.

This is a conversation for the leader who wants to stay ahead of what is coming, and the manager who wants to stop losing people to policies that were never designed with them in mind.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why most hybrid work policies fail and what intentional workplace design actually looks like
  • What to do in the first 90 days when you land in a new role, new city, and new culture all at once
  • The ambition conversation most managers never have and why it costs them their best people
  • How to navigate the shift from peer to boss without losing the relationships that matter
  • Why the carrot beats the stick every time when it comes to getting people back in the office
  • What leading a geographically fragmented global team teaches you about building culture on purpose
  • The difference between being the boss and being a leader, and why they require different things from you
  • How curiosity became Nate's most consistent leadership tool across seven states, two countries, and multiple industries

We talk about:

00:00 - Two votes and a basketball team: the moment at Kenan-Flagler that made Nate realize he was a leader

05:00 - Seven states, two countries, and the formula he used to land well every single time

08:00 - Curiosity as a leadership tool: how to get familiar with a culture before you try to lead it

09:00 - The mid-career wall: why coaching someone toward your ambition instead of theirs is a waste of both of your time

15:00 - When did you first realize you were a boss: becoming GM in Canada at 5 percent of your boss's scope

19:00 - From peer to boss: the Sanofi global role where his former teammate suddenly reported to him

22:00 - The hybrid work conversation: why Nate had a head start on what everyone else panicked about

26:30 - Why intentional workplace design is the only thing that actually works in hybrid

28:00 - The Tuesday problem: everyone shows up on the same day, there are no seats, and the whole day is Zoom calls

32:00 - Lightning round: Myers Briggs INTP, Working Genius, 4,000 Weeks, and why being more efficient is the wrong goal

37:00 - The best advice he ever got and the boss who told him to stop trying to be something else

39:30 - The Rolaids failure: why ambition is a good thing and failure is only failure if leadership punishes it

Resources:


Connect with Nate


Connect with me


#HybridWork #HybridTeams #LeadershipDevelopment #NewManagerTips #PeerToManager #LeadingFormerPeers #WorkplaceCulture #ReturnToOffice #LeadershipPodcast #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #ManagementTips #TeamCulture #GlobalLeadership #DigitalTransformation #LeadershipCoaching #CareerGrowth #WorkingGenius #MyersBriggs #LeadingThroughChange #Peoplefluence

]]>Nate Challen did not set out to become the person companies call when the future of work breaks down. It happened because he kept landing at the front edge of change before anyone else knew it was coming.

He started at Ancestry.com building one of the first social platforms before social media existed. He led global teams out of Frankfurt with people in France, Germany, the UK, Singapore, and South America. He ran Canada for Sanofi as a general manager with barely 5 percent of his boss's attention and a full cross-functional team looking to him for every decision. And then COVID hit and the rest of the world caught up to what he had already been navigating for years.

In this conversation, Nate and Katie get into the leadership questions most people are too comfortable to ask honestly. What actually makes hybrid work, and why most companies are doing it wrong. What happens when you get promoted over the peer sitting next to you. Why the best leaders ask about ambition before they start coaching. And what it means to find teammates instead of competitors everywhere you go, including business school.

This is a conversation for the leader who wants to stay ahead of what is coming, and the manager who wants to stop losing people to policies that were never designed with them in mind.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why most hybrid work policies fail and what intentional workplace design actually looks like
  • What to do in the first 90 days when you land in a new role, new city, and new culture all at once
  • The ambition conversation most managers never have and why it costs them their best people
  • How to navigate the shift from peer to boss without losing the relationships that matter
  • Why the carrot beats the stick every time when it comes to getting people back in the office
  • What leading a geographically fragmented global team teaches you about building culture on purpose
  • The difference between being the boss and being a leader, and why they require different things from you
  • How curiosity became Nate's most consistent leadership tool across seven states, two countries, and multiple industries

We talk about:

00:00 - Two votes and a basketball team: the moment at Kenan-Flagler that made Nate realize he was a leader

05:00 - Seven states, two countries, and the formula he used to land well every single time

08:00 - Curiosity as a leadership tool: how to get familiar with a culture before you try to lead it

09:00 - The mid-career wall: why coaching someone toward your ambition instead of theirs is a waste of both of your time

15:00 - When did you first realize you were a boss: becoming GM in Canada at 5 percent of your boss's scope

19:00 - From peer to boss: the Sanofi global role where his former teammate suddenly reported to him

22:00 - The hybrid work conversation: why Nate had a head start on what everyone else panicked about

26:30 - Why intentional workplace design is the only thing that actually works in hybrid

28:00 - The Tuesday problem: everyone shows up on the same day, there are no seats, and the whole day is Zoom calls

32:00 - Lightning round: Myers Briggs INTP, Working Genius, 4,000 Weeks, and why being more efficient is the wrong goal

37:00 - The best advice he ever got and the boss who told him to stop trying to be something else

39:30 - The Rolaids failure: why ambition is a good thing and failure is only failure if leadership punishes it

Resources:


Connect with Nate


Connect with me


#HybridWork #HybridTeams #LeadershipDevelopment #NewManagerTips #PeerToManager #LeadingFormerPeers #WorkplaceCulture #ReturnToOffice #LeadershipPodcast #ThinkOutsideTheBoss #ManagementTips #TeamCulture #GlobalLeadership #DigitalTransformation #LeadershipCoaching #CareerGrowth #WorkingGenius #MyersBriggs #LeadingThroughChange #Peoplefluence

]]>d0bd9bc3-5070-447f-8360-a0f4c070a2adWed, 17 Jun 2026 04:00:00 -040044:31falsefull1717016: "I Got Fired, And It Was The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me" | Ann Eileen Thompson016: "I Got Fired, And It Was The Best Thing That Ever Happened To Me" | Ann Eileen ThompsonAnn Eileen Thompson spent nearly 30 years climbing to the top. Global teams at Procter & Gamble. A company she co-founded, scaled onto the Inc. 500, and sold. From the outside, a flawless leadership career. And then she got fired, and she will look you dead in the eye and tell you she had it coming.

Most people who get walked out the door spend years telling everyone how wrong the company was. Ann did the opposite. She admitted they were right, and that single act of honesty cracked open the most important lesson of her entire career.

In this conversation, Ann and Katie go somewhere most leadership conversations are too polished to go. She reveals the exact habit that got her fired, the one almost every single person reading this is guilty of without realizing it. When she stopped respecting a boss, she quietly gathered the other frustrated people and built a coalition that all agreed they knew better. It felt like venting in the parking lot. It was actually a slow demolition of the entire team's trust, and it showed up in the business results, not just the mood in the room.

And she gets radically honest about the parts we usually hide. What it feels like to be deceived about your own behavior while believing you're the good guy. What to do when you genuinely cannot respect the person you report to. Why a single firing can teach you more than a decade of promotions. And how she walked away from a career that was quietly burning her to the ground, took an eighteen month silence, and rebuilt what she actually wanted from her work and her life.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why criticizing people from the outside almost never changes their behavior
  • The "get inside the tent" approach to leading people through growth and change
  • The real difference between calling people up and calling people out
  • Why hard conversations are the core of leadership, not a side task
  • How venting about your boss to coworkers quietly erodes trust across a whole team
  • The healthy and unhealthy ways to handle a leader you don't respect
  • What getting fired taught Ann about accountability and self-awareness
  • The one question every leader should ask after losing a job or a team member
  • How the best mentors create growth without ever telling you exactly what to do
  • The first step to take when you feel stuck and can't name what you actually want

We talk about:

00:00 Intro

02:30 The moment a teacher called her a leader before she saw it in herself

05:00 What great coaching looks like: goalposts, milestones, and room to figure it out

07:30 Her first hard conversation and learning to lead through conflict

10:00 The career path: Ohio State, Macy's, and learning how to influence people

12:30 Why P&G became her crash course in real leadership

14:30 Learning as much from the bad leaders as the good ones

16:00 Get inside the tent: the difference between calling people up and calling people out

19:00 The condescending boss and what bad leadership actually feels like

21:30 Healthy vs. unhealthy ways to cope with a leader you can't respect

24:00 How gossip seeds division and quietly hits business results

26:30 The job where she seeded division and got fired

29:00 Why she now says they were right to fire her

31:00 The warning signs she blew off, and why

33:00 How she'd coach her former self: respect, decide, stay or go

35:30 How faith reshaped the way she leads and works

42:00 Burnout, selling the company, and the reset that followed

45:00 Rediscovering what actually brings her joy

48:30 The mission she lives now: coaching people toward purpose

51:00 How to start when you feel stuck and don't know what comes next

Resources:


Connect with Ann


Connect with me


#Leadership #HardConversations #FaithAtWork

]]>Ann Eileen Thompson spent nearly 30 years climbing to the top. Global teams at Procter & Gamble. A company she co-founded, scaled onto the Inc. 500, and sold. From the outside, a flawless leadership career. And then she got fired, and she will look you dead in the eye and tell you she had it coming.

Most people who get walked out the door spend years telling everyone how wrong the company was. Ann did the opposite. She admitted they were right, and that single act of honesty cracked open the most important lesson of her entire career.

In this conversation, Ann and Katie go somewhere most leadership conversations are too polished to go. She reveals the exact habit that got her fired, the one almost every single person reading this is guilty of without realizing it. When she stopped respecting a boss, she quietly gathered the other frustrated people and built a coalition that all agreed they knew better. It felt like venting in the parking lot. It was actually a slow demolition of the entire team's trust, and it showed up in the business results, not just the mood in the room.

And she gets radically honest about the parts we usually hide. What it feels like to be deceived about your own behavior while believing you're the good guy. What to do when you genuinely cannot respect the person you report to. Why a single firing can teach you more than a decade of promotions. And how she walked away from a career that was quietly burning her to the ground, took an eighteen month silence, and rebuilt what she actually wanted from her work and her life.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why criticizing people from the outside almost never changes their behavior
  • The "get inside the tent" approach to leading people through growth and change
  • The real difference between calling people up and calling people out
  • Why hard conversations are the core of leadership, not a side task
  • How venting about your boss to coworkers quietly erodes trust across a whole team
  • The healthy and unhealthy ways to handle a leader you don't respect
  • What getting fired taught Ann about accountability and self-awareness
  • The one question every leader should ask after losing a job or a team member
  • How the best mentors create growth without ever telling you exactly what to do
  • The first step to take when you feel stuck and can't name what you actually want

We talk about:

00:00 Intro

02:30 The moment a teacher called her a leader before she saw it in herself

05:00 What great coaching looks like: goalposts, milestones, and room to figure it out

07:30 Her first hard conversation and learning to lead through conflict

10:00 The career path: Ohio State, Macy's, and learning how to influence people

12:30 Why P&G became her crash course in real leadership

14:30 Learning as much from the bad leaders as the good ones

16:00 Get inside the tent: the difference between calling people up and calling people out

19:00 The condescending boss and what bad leadership actually feels like

21:30 Healthy vs. unhealthy ways to cope with a leader you can't respect

24:00 How gossip seeds division and quietly hits business results

26:30 The job where she seeded division and got fired

29:00 Why she now says they were right to fire her

31:00 The warning signs she blew off, and why

33:00 How she'd coach her former self: respect, decide, stay or go

35:30 How faith reshaped the way she leads and works

42:00 Burnout, selling the company, and the reset that followed

45:00 Rediscovering what actually brings her joy

48:30 The mission she lives now: coaching people toward purpose

51:00 How to start when you feel stuck and don't know what comes next

Resources:


Connect with Ann


Connect with me


#Leadership #HardConversations #FaithAtWork

]]>6bd7127a-4333-492c-839a-3899c106201fWed, 10 Jun 2026 04:00:00 -040046:14falsefull1616015: The Workforce Blind Spot Costing Companies Billions | Teresa Tanner015: The Workforce Blind Spot Costing Companies Billions | Teresa TannerWhat if the talent problem isn't hiring, it's what happens after great people walk out the door?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie sits down with Teresa Tanner, former Chief Administrative Officer at Fifth Third Bank and founder of Reserve Squad, a company helping organizations build alumni talent communities so former employees can return for project-based work. Teresa spent 18 years at McDonald's Corporation and rose through the C-suite before leaving to solve a workforce problem she kept seeing over and over: companies watching incredible talent walk out the door with no plan to bring them back.

Less than 10% of women who pause their careers ever return to the company they left. Most organizations assume that's just how it goes. Teresa built an entirely new business model to prove it doesn't have to be.

This conversation goes deep on what it actually costs to lose a star employee, why the all-or-nothing structure of most jobs doesn't serve today's workforce, and what leaders can do right now to stop the bleed. But it's also a deeply personal episode – about insecurity, big mistakes, mentorship, leading as a woman in a man's world, and what it means to find your voice.

If you've ever lost someone great and wished there was a better way, or if you're the person who left and never went back, this episode is for you.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why less than 10% of women who leave a company ever return to it
  • What companies get wrong about retirees and stay-at-home parents
  • How Reserve Squad's alumni talent model works and why it's changing workforce strategy
  • What exit interviews kept revealing about identity, purpose, and the all-or-nothing trap
  • Why being afraid to be fired makes you a worse leader
  • How one boss's response to a ~$250K mistake became a masterclass in accountability
  • What it's really like to be the only woman in the room at the C-suite level
  • Why Teresa keeps the quote "don't be afraid to be fired" taped to her monitor
  • The advice that changed everything: hold your why tightly, stay open-handed about the how
  • What Teresa would go back and tell her eighth-grade self

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The moment Teresa first realized she was a leader and why she lied about it
  • 03:00 From McDonald's to the C-suite: 18 years and what she learned
  • 05:00 The workforce problem Teresa kept seeing on the way out the door
  • 06:00 The stat that started it all: less than 10% of women go back
  • 08:00 How Reserve Squad works and why they become the employer of record
  • 09:00 The assumptions companies make about retirees and parents (and why they're wrong)
  • 12:00 Exit interviews, identity, and the all-or-nothing trap
  • 13:00 "We have to draw new boxes" and what the current talent structure is missing
  • 14:00 The inflection point: when Teresa started believing in her own potential
  • 16:00 The ~$250K mistake, the resignation letter, and the boss who refused to accept it
  • 19:00 What accountability without shame actually looks like in leadership
  • 21:00 Why she kept "don't be afraid to be fired" taped to her monitor
  • 22:00 What it was like to be the only woman in the room
  • 25:00 Finding your voice as a woman leader and passing that along
  • 26:00 Navigating motherhood and a C-suite career at the same time
  • 28:00 Lightning round: Enneagram, Egonomics, and Alicia Keys
  • 33:00 Where to find Teresa and Reserve Squad

Resources:


Connect with Teresa


Connect with me


#AlumniTalent #LeadershipDevelopment #WomenInLeadership

]]>What if the talent problem isn't hiring, it's what happens after great people walk out the door?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie sits down with Teresa Tanner, former Chief Administrative Officer at Fifth Third Bank and founder of Reserve Squad, a company helping organizations build alumni talent communities so former employees can return for project-based work. Teresa spent 18 years at McDonald's Corporation and rose through the C-suite before leaving to solve a workforce problem she kept seeing over and over: companies watching incredible talent walk out the door with no plan to bring them back.

Less than 10% of women who pause their careers ever return to the company they left. Most organizations assume that's just how it goes. Teresa built an entirely new business model to prove it doesn't have to be.

This conversation goes deep on what it actually costs to lose a star employee, why the all-or-nothing structure of most jobs doesn't serve today's workforce, and what leaders can do right now to stop the bleed. But it's also a deeply personal episode – about insecurity, big mistakes, mentorship, leading as a woman in a man's world, and what it means to find your voice.

If you've ever lost someone great and wished there was a better way, or if you're the person who left and never went back, this episode is for you.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why less than 10% of women who leave a company ever return to it
  • What companies get wrong about retirees and stay-at-home parents
  • How Reserve Squad's alumni talent model works and why it's changing workforce strategy
  • What exit interviews kept revealing about identity, purpose, and the all-or-nothing trap
  • Why being afraid to be fired makes you a worse leader
  • How one boss's response to a ~$250K mistake became a masterclass in accountability
  • What it's really like to be the only woman in the room at the C-suite level
  • Why Teresa keeps the quote "don't be afraid to be fired" taped to her monitor
  • The advice that changed everything: hold your why tightly, stay open-handed about the how
  • What Teresa would go back and tell her eighth-grade self

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The moment Teresa first realized she was a leader and why she lied about it
  • 03:00 From McDonald's to the C-suite: 18 years and what she learned
  • 05:00 The workforce problem Teresa kept seeing on the way out the door
  • 06:00 The stat that started it all: less than 10% of women go back
  • 08:00 How Reserve Squad works and why they become the employer of record
  • 09:00 The assumptions companies make about retirees and parents (and why they're wrong)
  • 12:00 Exit interviews, identity, and the all-or-nothing trap
  • 13:00 "We have to draw new boxes" and what the current talent structure is missing
  • 14:00 The inflection point: when Teresa started believing in her own potential
  • 16:00 The ~$250K mistake, the resignation letter, and the boss who refused to accept it
  • 19:00 What accountability without shame actually looks like in leadership
  • 21:00 Why she kept "don't be afraid to be fired" taped to her monitor
  • 22:00 What it was like to be the only woman in the room
  • 25:00 Finding your voice as a woman leader and passing that along
  • 26:00 Navigating motherhood and a C-suite career at the same time
  • 28:00 Lightning round: Enneagram, Egonomics, and Alicia Keys
  • 33:00 Where to find Teresa and Reserve Squad

Resources:


Connect with Teresa


Connect with me


#AlumniTalent #LeadershipDevelopment #WomenInLeadership

]]>c1176c23-55ee-46a7-826e-8fb586cf6e23Wed, 03 Jun 2026 04:00:00 -040034:16falsefull1515014: Why Smart Teams Still Fail (And the Tool That Fixes It) | Katie Armentrout014: Why Smart Teams Still Fail (And the Tool That Fixes It) | Katie ArmentroutWhat if you're not burned out because you have too much to do, but because you're doing too much of the wrong work?

In this solo episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout shares the personal story behind why she left corporate America and the two books by Pat Lencioni that finally gave her the language to understand it. What she couldn't name in that meeting with her VP, a personality assessment helped her explain years later.

This episode is a deep dive into the Working Genius assessment, a productivity tool and personality framework that helps individuals and teams understand what types of work energize them, what drains them, and how to have better conversations because of it. Katie breaks down all six types of working genius, what it looks like when a team is missing one, and how a single team map helped one of her clients go from launching 22 products in a year to 8, with 10x revenue growth.

Self-awareness is the most important quality in any leader. Not communication. Not strategy. Not confidence. Self-awareness. And this episode gives you a practical tool to start building it today.

If you've ever walked into your manager's office and said "I'm burned out, I'm frustrated, I'm unhappy" without knowing what to do next, this episode gives you the language you were missing.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why burnout is usually about the type of work you're doing, not the amount
  • The six types of working genius and what each one means for your team
  • Why having smart, good people does not automatically create a healthy culture
  • How one team went from chaos to 10x revenue growth by finding their gap
  • Why self-awareness is the number one leadership quality (and how to practice it)
  • The difference between a personality assessment and a working genius team map
  • How to turn emotional conversations into solvable problems
  • What happens when a team skips the discernment phase (and how to fix it)
  • Why 80 to 85 percent of the benefit comes from taking assessments as a team, not solo
  • How to use a common language framework to reduce team drama and conflict

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The moment that started it all: burnout, frustration, and not having the words
  • 03:00 Leaving corporate America and why Katie had no grand plan
  • 06:00 The conference that changed everything and Pat Lencioni's Five Dysfunctions of a Team
  • 08:00 How good people can still create a toxic culture (and what leaders miss)
  • 10:00 Introducing the Working Genius: the six phases of all work
  • 12:00 Why tenacity was draining Katie and what that reveals about burnout
  • 14:00 The conversation you could have had if your team knew working genius
  • 16:00 Real client case study: 22 products, missing discernment, and the team map that fixed it
  • 19:00 From launching 22 products to 8, and 10x revenue growth in one year
  • 21:00 Why 50% of your work should be in your genius zone (and what happens if it isn't)
  • 22:00 Self-awareness as the number one leadership quality and why most leaders miss it
  • 23:00 Why your team already knows your weaknesses even if you don't admit them
  • 24:00 How to claim your free Working Genius debrief with Katie

Resources:


Connect with me


#WorkingGenius #LeadershipDevelopment #TeamCulture

]]>What if you're not burned out because you have too much to do, but because you're doing too much of the wrong work?

In this solo episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout shares the personal story behind why she left corporate America and the two books by Pat Lencioni that finally gave her the language to understand it. What she couldn't name in that meeting with her VP, a personality assessment helped her explain years later.

This episode is a deep dive into the Working Genius assessment, a productivity tool and personality framework that helps individuals and teams understand what types of work energize them, what drains them, and how to have better conversations because of it. Katie breaks down all six types of working genius, what it looks like when a team is missing one, and how a single team map helped one of her clients go from launching 22 products in a year to 8, with 10x revenue growth.

Self-awareness is the most important quality in any leader. Not communication. Not strategy. Not confidence. Self-awareness. And this episode gives you a practical tool to start building it today.

If you've ever walked into your manager's office and said "I'm burned out, I'm frustrated, I'm unhappy" without knowing what to do next, this episode gives you the language you were missing.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why burnout is usually about the type of work you're doing, not the amount
  • The six types of working genius and what each one means for your team
  • Why having smart, good people does not automatically create a healthy culture
  • How one team went from chaos to 10x revenue growth by finding their gap
  • Why self-awareness is the number one leadership quality (and how to practice it)
  • The difference between a personality assessment and a working genius team map
  • How to turn emotional conversations into solvable problems
  • What happens when a team skips the discernment phase (and how to fix it)
  • Why 80 to 85 percent of the benefit comes from taking assessments as a team, not solo
  • How to use a common language framework to reduce team drama and conflict

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The moment that started it all: burnout, frustration, and not having the words
  • 03:00 Leaving corporate America and why Katie had no grand plan
  • 06:00 The conference that changed everything and Pat Lencioni's Five Dysfunctions of a Team
  • 08:00 How good people can still create a toxic culture (and what leaders miss)
  • 10:00 Introducing the Working Genius: the six phases of all work
  • 12:00 Why tenacity was draining Katie and what that reveals about burnout
  • 14:00 The conversation you could have had if your team knew working genius
  • 16:00 Real client case study: 22 products, missing discernment, and the team map that fixed it
  • 19:00 From launching 22 products to 8, and 10x revenue growth in one year
  • 21:00 Why 50% of your work should be in your genius zone (and what happens if it isn't)
  • 22:00 Self-awareness as the number one leadership quality and why most leaders miss it
  • 23:00 Why your team already knows your weaknesses even if you don't admit them
  • 24:00 How to claim your free Working Genius debrief with Katie

Resources:


Connect with me


#WorkingGenius #LeadershipDevelopment #TeamCulture

]]>efacd2b4-d70e-4af1-9da2-027f250e6e70Wed, 27 May 2026 04:00:00 -040024:44falsefull1414013: You’re Growing Your Business… But Losing Control of Your Money | Jim Rasmussen013: You’re Growing Your Business… But Losing Control of Your Money | Jim RasmussenWhat if the reason you’re not feeling wealthy… has nothing to do with how much money you make?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Jim Rasmussen, co-founder of Pando Wealth and former Chick-fil-A financial consultant, to unpack the truth most high performers avoid: making more money doesn’t automatically create a better life.

After two decades helping business operators increase profit, Jim noticed a pattern. The income was growing, but the clarity wasn’t. Leaders were building businesses without building a financial plan, chasing growth without defining what it was actually for.

This conversation flips the script on wealth, legacy, and leadership. From the emotional roots of money habits to the dangerous trap of comparison-driven investing, Jim shares what it really takes to move from reactive earning to intentional living.

Because wealth isn’t just something you build. It’s something you steward, shape, and ultimately pass on.

If you’ve been focused on growing your income but haven’t stopped to ask what it’s all for, this episode will change how you think about money, leadership, and the life you’re actually creating.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why making more money without a plan leads to long-term dissatisfaction
  • The difference between a business plan and a financial life plan (and why most people only have one)
  • How comparison culture quietly drives bad financial decisions
  • The real reason high earners still feel financially insecure
  • Why “keeping up with the Joneses” destroys long-term wealth
  • The moment that changed Jim’s entire perspective on money and legacy
  • How to shift from reactive spending to intentional wealth building
  • The identity trap that keeps entrepreneurs stuck in financial stress
  • Why generosity is a core part of sustainable wealth, not an afterthought
  • The mindset shift that moves you from chasing money to leading your life with purpose

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why building wealth without a plan sets the next generation up to fail
  • 03:00 Growing up between scarcity and investing, and how it shaped Jim’s money mindset
  • 07:00 What Chick-fil-A operators taught him about income growth and financial confusion
  • 11:00 The wake-up call that shifted his focus from business profit to personal planning
  • 15:00 Why most leaders overspend as their income increases
  • 18:00 The leadership principle that drives culture, loyalty, and long-term success
  • 22:00 How comparison and social pressure lead to poor financial decisions
  • 26:00 Why entrepreneurs tie their identity to their business (and how to break it)
  • 30:00 The process of defining your personal vision for money and life
  • 34:00 How Pando Wealth approaches financial planning differently
  • 38:00 The risks of fast money, investing mistakes, and chasing returns
  • 41:00 Why steady, intentional growth always outperforms short-term wins
  • 44:00 Final advice for leaders who feel behind, overwhelmed, or financially stuck

Connect with Jim


Connect with me


#FinancialPlanning #BusinessOwners #WealthBuilding

]]>What if the reason you’re not feeling wealthy… has nothing to do with how much money you make?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Jim Rasmussen, co-founder of Pando Wealth and former Chick-fil-A financial consultant, to unpack the truth most high performers avoid: making more money doesn’t automatically create a better life.

After two decades helping business operators increase profit, Jim noticed a pattern. The income was growing, but the clarity wasn’t. Leaders were building businesses without building a financial plan, chasing growth without defining what it was actually for.

This conversation flips the script on wealth, legacy, and leadership. From the emotional roots of money habits to the dangerous trap of comparison-driven investing, Jim shares what it really takes to move from reactive earning to intentional living.

Because wealth isn’t just something you build. It’s something you steward, shape, and ultimately pass on.

If you’ve been focused on growing your income but haven’t stopped to ask what it’s all for, this episode will change how you think about money, leadership, and the life you’re actually creating.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why making more money without a plan leads to long-term dissatisfaction
  • The difference between a business plan and a financial life plan (and why most people only have one)
  • How comparison culture quietly drives bad financial decisions
  • The real reason high earners still feel financially insecure
  • Why “keeping up with the Joneses” destroys long-term wealth
  • The moment that changed Jim’s entire perspective on money and legacy
  • How to shift from reactive spending to intentional wealth building
  • The identity trap that keeps entrepreneurs stuck in financial stress
  • Why generosity is a core part of sustainable wealth, not an afterthought
  • The mindset shift that moves you from chasing money to leading your life with purpose

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why building wealth without a plan sets the next generation up to fail
  • 03:00 Growing up between scarcity and investing, and how it shaped Jim’s money mindset
  • 07:00 What Chick-fil-A operators taught him about income growth and financial confusion
  • 11:00 The wake-up call that shifted his focus from business profit to personal planning
  • 15:00 Why most leaders overspend as their income increases
  • 18:00 The leadership principle that drives culture, loyalty, and long-term success
  • 22:00 How comparison and social pressure lead to poor financial decisions
  • 26:00 Why entrepreneurs tie their identity to their business (and how to break it)
  • 30:00 The process of defining your personal vision for money and life
  • 34:00 How Pando Wealth approaches financial planning differently
  • 38:00 The risks of fast money, investing mistakes, and chasing returns
  • 41:00 Why steady, intentional growth always outperforms short-term wins
  • 44:00 Final advice for leaders who feel behind, overwhelmed, or financially stuck

Connect with Jim


Connect with me


#FinancialPlanning #BusinessOwners #WealthBuilding

]]>e3b23b23-dace-41b4-abc2-3bbbd1fa3f7dWed, 20 May 2026 04:00:00 -040041:53falsefull1313012: She Saved a Client $30K in 5 Minutes. Here's the Question She Asked | Kendra Ramirez012: She Saved a Client $30K in 5 Minutes. Here's the Question She Asked | Kendra RamirezMost business leaders aren't behind on AI because they lack access. They're behind because no one told them they already have it and no one gave them permission to use it.

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Kendra Ramirez, CEO of KR Digital, Claude Ambassador, and one of the most trusted AI voices in the B2B space, to cut through the noise, the overwhelm, and every excuse keeping leaders on the sidelines of the AI era.

Kendra has been building AI since 2018. She's delivered hundreds of sessions, consulted organizations of every size, and once saved a client $30,000 in five minutes by asking five questions no one else thought to ask. This is not a conversation about AI being the future. It's a conversation about why it's already here and what to actually do about it today.

From auditing your current tech stack, to why Claude outperforms ChatGPT for voice-driven content, to the data security questions your team is afraid to bring to leadership, Kendra makes AI feel less like a threat and more like the smartest colleague you've never properly introduced yourself to.

If you lead a team, run a business, or have been quietly waiting for someone to tell you it's safe to move, this episode is that moment.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why most businesses are already sitting on AI they've paid for and never activated
  • The five questions that saved one client $30,000 before they signed a single contract
  • Why Claude outperforms ChatGPT for human-sounding content and how to switch without starting over
  • What AI Skills are and why they permanently solve the "re-explaining yourself" problem
  • The non-negotiable data security rules every leader needs to understand before putting anything into AI
  • Why free AI tools are more expensive than you realize
  • How Kendra built a globally read AI newsletter that generates revenue without ever pushing it
  • The mindset shift from waiting for organizational permission to leading your team into the AI era
  • Why human-centered AI implementation outperforms technology-centered every single time
  • How to use your personality assessments inside AI for stronger leadership and team communication

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The real reason your team is waiting on AI and why it starts with you
  • 04:00 Kendra's early leadership instincts and what it means to "manage up" the right way
  • 08:00 Why silencing the person who always asks "why" is a red flag, not a relief
  • 12:00 From technical recruiter to digital pioneer: building a business before anyone believed in it
  • 16:00 How to trust your gut when every coach in the room says you're wrong
  • 20:00 Limiting beliefs don't just live in you, they live in everyone giving you feedback
  • 24:00 Where to start with AI when you genuinely don't know what you don't know
  • 28:00 The $30K wake-up call: audit your tech stack before you buy anything new
  • 32:00 Claude vs. ChatGPT: what's actually different and whether you should switch
  • 36:00 What AI Skills are and how they eliminate the re-explaining problem for good
  • 40:00 AI data security: what's actually safe to put in, and what never should be
  • 44:00 How Kendra runs AI enablement from the C-suite to the front line
  • 48:00 Why human connection is the highest-leverage business strategy of 2026
  • 52:00 Lightning round: personality assessments, faith, $10K lessons, and walking out to Alicia Keys

Connect with Kendra


Connect with me


#AIforBusiness #Leadership #Entrepreneurship

]]>Most business leaders aren't behind on AI because they lack access. They're behind because no one told them they already have it and no one gave them permission to use it.

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Kendra Ramirez, CEO of KR Digital, Claude Ambassador, and one of the most trusted AI voices in the B2B space, to cut through the noise, the overwhelm, and every excuse keeping leaders on the sidelines of the AI era.

Kendra has been building AI since 2018. She's delivered hundreds of sessions, consulted organizations of every size, and once saved a client $30,000 in five minutes by asking five questions no one else thought to ask. This is not a conversation about AI being the future. It's a conversation about why it's already here and what to actually do about it today.

From auditing your current tech stack, to why Claude outperforms ChatGPT for voice-driven content, to the data security questions your team is afraid to bring to leadership, Kendra makes AI feel less like a threat and more like the smartest colleague you've never properly introduced yourself to.

If you lead a team, run a business, or have been quietly waiting for someone to tell you it's safe to move, this episode is that moment.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why most businesses are already sitting on AI they've paid for and never activated
  • The five questions that saved one client $30,000 before they signed a single contract
  • Why Claude outperforms ChatGPT for human-sounding content and how to switch without starting over
  • What AI Skills are and why they permanently solve the "re-explaining yourself" problem
  • The non-negotiable data security rules every leader needs to understand before putting anything into AI
  • Why free AI tools are more expensive than you realize
  • How Kendra built a globally read AI newsletter that generates revenue without ever pushing it
  • The mindset shift from waiting for organizational permission to leading your team into the AI era
  • Why human-centered AI implementation outperforms technology-centered every single time
  • How to use your personality assessments inside AI for stronger leadership and team communication

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The real reason your team is waiting on AI and why it starts with you
  • 04:00 Kendra's early leadership instincts and what it means to "manage up" the right way
  • 08:00 Why silencing the person who always asks "why" is a red flag, not a relief
  • 12:00 From technical recruiter to digital pioneer: building a business before anyone believed in it
  • 16:00 How to trust your gut when every coach in the room says you're wrong
  • 20:00 Limiting beliefs don't just live in you, they live in everyone giving you feedback
  • 24:00 Where to start with AI when you genuinely don't know what you don't know
  • 28:00 The $30K wake-up call: audit your tech stack before you buy anything new
  • 32:00 Claude vs. ChatGPT: what's actually different and whether you should switch
  • 36:00 What AI Skills are and how they eliminate the re-explaining problem for good
  • 40:00 AI data security: what's actually safe to put in, and what never should be
  • 44:00 How Kendra runs AI enablement from the C-suite to the front line
  • 48:00 Why human connection is the highest-leverage business strategy of 2026
  • 52:00 Lightning round: personality assessments, faith, $10K lessons, and walking out to Alicia Keys

Connect with Kendra


Connect with me


#AIforBusiness #Leadership #Entrepreneurship

]]>3e850705-bf41-44a0-824c-1a6d52bc3bb9Wed, 13 May 2026 04:00:00 -040051:11falsefull1212011: Why Great Ideas Die Inside Companies (And How to Finally Get Them Out) | Fiona Stevenson011: Why Great Ideas Die Inside Companies (And How to Finally Get Them Out) | Fiona StevensonWhat if your ideas aren’t failing… you’re just not built to carry them through?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with innovation strategist and CEO Fiona Stevenson to unpack the uncomfortable truth behind why great ideas stall, die, or never make it out of the room.

Because it’s not strategy. It’s not creativity. And it’s definitely not a lack of ideas.

It’s human nature.

Fiona shares what really happens inside innovation, from fear and perfectionism to leadership blind spots and the emotional resistance that quietly kills momentum. Drawing from hundreds of innovation projects and her new book Built for Breakthrough, she reveals why even “foolproof” processes fail when humans are involved… and what actually gets ideas across the finish line.

This conversation goes beyond innovation. It’s about leadership, identity, risk, and the courage to move forward when you can’t see the path.

If you’ve ever felt stuck between having an idea and actually executing it… this will shift how you think about everything.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why innovation fails even when the process is “foolproof”
  • The hidden role fear plays in killing great ideas
  • Why not seeing the path ahead is actually a good sign
  • The difference between having ideas and executing them
  • How perfectionism quietly destroys leadership and innovation
  • Why your team mirrors your energy, not your intentions
  • The real reason leaving a stable career feels terrifying
  • How to build momentum when everything feels uncertain
  • Why energy, not time, is your most valuable resource
  • The mindset shift that turns ideas into reality

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why innovation isn’t actually the problem
  • 04:00 Fiona’s early leadership instincts and entrepreneurial mindset
  • 08:00 From corporate comfort to taking the leap into the unknown
  • 12:00 Why not seeing the path is a sign you’re on the right one
  • 16:00 The emotional reality of leaving stability behind
  • 20:00 How Fiona built a million-dollar business in year one
  • 24:00 The “say yes, make friends, experiment” growth strategy
  • 28:00 Why energy, not time, determines your output
  • 32:00 The power of working in your zone of genius
  • 36:00 Perfectionism, leadership, and the cost of hiding failure
  • 40:00 Why vulnerability transforms team performance
  • 44:00 The real reason great ideas stall inside organizations

Connect with Fiona


Connect with me


#Innovation #Leadership #Entrepreneurship

]]>What if your ideas aren’t failing… you’re just not built to carry them through?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with innovation strategist and CEO Fiona Stevenson to unpack the uncomfortable truth behind why great ideas stall, die, or never make it out of the room.

Because it’s not strategy. It’s not creativity. And it’s definitely not a lack of ideas.

It’s human nature.

Fiona shares what really happens inside innovation, from fear and perfectionism to leadership blind spots and the emotional resistance that quietly kills momentum. Drawing from hundreds of innovation projects and her new book Built for Breakthrough, she reveals why even “foolproof” processes fail when humans are involved… and what actually gets ideas across the finish line.

This conversation goes beyond innovation. It’s about leadership, identity, risk, and the courage to move forward when you can’t see the path.

If you’ve ever felt stuck between having an idea and actually executing it… this will shift how you think about everything.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why innovation fails even when the process is “foolproof”
  • The hidden role fear plays in killing great ideas
  • Why not seeing the path ahead is actually a good sign
  • The difference between having ideas and executing them
  • How perfectionism quietly destroys leadership and innovation
  • Why your team mirrors your energy, not your intentions
  • The real reason leaving a stable career feels terrifying
  • How to build momentum when everything feels uncertain
  • Why energy, not time, is your most valuable resource
  • The mindset shift that turns ideas into reality

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why innovation isn’t actually the problem
  • 04:00 Fiona’s early leadership instincts and entrepreneurial mindset
  • 08:00 From corporate comfort to taking the leap into the unknown
  • 12:00 Why not seeing the path is a sign you’re on the right one
  • 16:00 The emotional reality of leaving stability behind
  • 20:00 How Fiona built a million-dollar business in year one
  • 24:00 The “say yes, make friends, experiment” growth strategy
  • 28:00 Why energy, not time, determines your output
  • 32:00 The power of working in your zone of genius
  • 36:00 Perfectionism, leadership, and the cost of hiding failure
  • 40:00 Why vulnerability transforms team performance
  • 44:00 The real reason great ideas stall inside organizations

Connect with Fiona


Connect with me


#Innovation #Leadership #Entrepreneurship

]]>a9c86899-4b98-4ca0-a277-30eb0c3ab80fWed, 06 May 2026 04:00:00 -040051:45falsefull1111010: Why Most Company Culture Fails (And How to Build One That Actually Scales) | Tim Metzner010: Why Most Company Culture Fails (And How to Build One That Actually Scales) | Tim MetznerWhat if your culture isn’t what you think it is… but what your team actually enforces?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with entrepreneur, investor, and founder Tim Metzner to unpack what really builds great companies, and why most leaders get it wrong.

Because culture isn’t built through mission statements, perks, or leadership speeches. It’s built in the moments where your team decides what’s acceptable, what’s not, and whether they believe you.

Tim shares his journey from early startup exposure to building companies that prioritize people, purpose, and performance, and why the best cultures don’t stay top-down for long.

If you’ve ever felt like your team isn’t aligned, your culture isn’t sticking, or your leadership isn’t landing the way you want it to… this episode will change how you see everything.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why culture is reinforced by teams, not leaders
  • The hidden difference between saying values and living them
  • How great cultures become self-policing systems
  • Why most leaders unintentionally create disengagement
  • The real reason employees don’t feel valued
  • How to build trust, care, and accountability inside teams
  • The missing link between leadership and employee buy-in
  • Why scaling makes culture harder, not easier
  • How to create alignment between individual work and company mission
  • What it actually takes to build a culture that lasts

We talk about:

  • 00:00 How great cultures become self-reinforcing
  • 04:00 Tim’s early startup experience and entrepreneurial spark
  • 08:00 First failed startup and lessons on execution
  • 12:00 Where Tim’s obsession with culture began
  • 16:00 What happens when employees feel truly valued
  • 20:00 The gap between leadership intention and impact
  • 24:00 Aligning personal growth with company growth (The Alliance model)
  • 28:00 Why scaling breaks culture, and how to fix it
  • 32:00 Building culture through core values in action
  • 36:00 When teams start holding each other accountable
  • 40:00 Should you start a business? The real answer
  • 43:00 Final leadership lessons and closing insights

Connect with Tim


Connect with me


#CompanyCulture #LeadershipDevelopment #BusinessLeadership

]]>What if your culture isn’t what you think it is… but what your team actually enforces?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with entrepreneur, investor, and founder Tim Metzner to unpack what really builds great companies, and why most leaders get it wrong.

Because culture isn’t built through mission statements, perks, or leadership speeches. It’s built in the moments where your team decides what’s acceptable, what’s not, and whether they believe you.

Tim shares his journey from early startup exposure to building companies that prioritize people, purpose, and performance, and why the best cultures don’t stay top-down for long.

If you’ve ever felt like your team isn’t aligned, your culture isn’t sticking, or your leadership isn’t landing the way you want it to… this episode will change how you see everything.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why culture is reinforced by teams, not leaders
  • The hidden difference between saying values and living them
  • How great cultures become self-policing systems
  • Why most leaders unintentionally create disengagement
  • The real reason employees don’t feel valued
  • How to build trust, care, and accountability inside teams
  • The missing link between leadership and employee buy-in
  • Why scaling makes culture harder, not easier
  • How to create alignment between individual work and company mission
  • What it actually takes to build a culture that lasts

We talk about:

  • 00:00 How great cultures become self-reinforcing
  • 04:00 Tim’s early startup experience and entrepreneurial spark
  • 08:00 First failed startup and lessons on execution
  • 12:00 Where Tim’s obsession with culture began
  • 16:00 What happens when employees feel truly valued
  • 20:00 The gap between leadership intention and impact
  • 24:00 Aligning personal growth with company growth (The Alliance model)
  • 28:00 Why scaling breaks culture, and how to fix it
  • 32:00 Building culture through core values in action
  • 36:00 When teams start holding each other accountable
  • 40:00 Should you start a business? The real answer
  • 43:00 Final leadership lessons and closing insights

Connect with Tim


Connect with me


#CompanyCulture #LeadershipDevelopment #BusinessLeadership

]]>1d8ccdff-f2ad-482d-a0b8-f7234a875ff0Wed, 29 Apr 2026 04:00:00 -040049:34falsefull1010009: You Built a Business You Can’t Escape From | Kevin Rains009: You Built a Business You Can’t Escape From | Kevin RainsWhy does your business feel harder… the more successful it becomes?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with EOS Implementer and former multi-location business owner Kevin Rains to unpack the hidden truth behind growth that most entrepreneurs never see coming.

Because scaling isn’t just about making more money. It’s about what happens underneath the growth.

Kevin shares how he grew a family business 40x, hit breaking points that put everything at risk, and the exact moment he realized that more revenue wasn’t solving the problem, it was exposing it.

What most leaders call “growth pains”… are often signs of something deeper. Lack of structure. Lack of clarity. Lack of a system that can actually support what you’re building.

If you’ve ever felt like your team isn’t stepping up the way you need, or you’re making more money but enjoying it less, this episode will show you why, and what to do instead.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why growth can increase chaos instead of solving it
  • The leadership gap that shows up as your business scales
  • What “hitting the ceiling” really means (and how to break through it)
  • Why simplifying your business is the key to scaling it
  • The real reason profit disappears, even when revenue increases
  • How to build a business that doesn’t rely on you for everything
  • What EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) actually does inside a company
  • The shift from reactive leadership to structured, intentional growth

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The hidden cost of growth no one talks about
  • 01:00 Kevin’s journey from small shop to 40x scale
  • 05:00 What it feels like to “hit the ceiling” in business
  • 06:30 Why doing more stops working as you grow
  • 08:00 Scaling through acquisition and what changes
  • 09:00 When growth creates risk instead of stability
  • 10:00 The moment everything almost fell apart
  • 11:30 Why leaders can’t do it alone (even if they try)
  • 13:00 Building the right team vs. carrying everything yourself
  • 14:00 Discovering EOS and creating structure
  • 16:00 Why most businesses operate in chaos without realizing it
  • 18:00 Revenue vs. profit, and where leaders get stuck
  • 19:30 How chaos impacts your team and culture
  • 21:00 The power of simple systems in complex businesses
  • 22:00 Doing it yourself vs. getting the right support
  • 25:00 The real ROI of structure (time, clarity, peace of mind)
  • 27:00 What a true leadership team actually looks like
  • 29:00 The weekly meeting that transforms your business
  • 31:00 Solving the right problems, not just reacting
  • 33:00 Why most teams avoid hard conversations
  • 35:00 “Enter the danger” and leading through discomfort
  • 37:00 Lessons on profit, purpose, and long-term impact

Connect with Kevin


Connect with me


#BusinessGrowth #LeadershipDevelopment #Entrepreneurship

]]>Why does your business feel harder… the more successful it becomes?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with EOS Implementer and former multi-location business owner Kevin Rains to unpack the hidden truth behind growth that most entrepreneurs never see coming.

Because scaling isn’t just about making more money. It’s about what happens underneath the growth.

Kevin shares how he grew a family business 40x, hit breaking points that put everything at risk, and the exact moment he realized that more revenue wasn’t solving the problem, it was exposing it.

What most leaders call “growth pains”… are often signs of something deeper. Lack of structure. Lack of clarity. Lack of a system that can actually support what you’re building.

If you’ve ever felt like your team isn’t stepping up the way you need, or you’re making more money but enjoying it less, this episode will show you why, and what to do instead.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why growth can increase chaos instead of solving it
  • The leadership gap that shows up as your business scales
  • What “hitting the ceiling” really means (and how to break through it)
  • Why simplifying your business is the key to scaling it
  • The real reason profit disappears, even when revenue increases
  • How to build a business that doesn’t rely on you for everything
  • What EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) actually does inside a company
  • The shift from reactive leadership to structured, intentional growth

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The hidden cost of growth no one talks about
  • 01:00 Kevin’s journey from small shop to 40x scale
  • 05:00 What it feels like to “hit the ceiling” in business
  • 06:30 Why doing more stops working as you grow
  • 08:00 Scaling through acquisition and what changes
  • 09:00 When growth creates risk instead of stability
  • 10:00 The moment everything almost fell apart
  • 11:30 Why leaders can’t do it alone (even if they try)
  • 13:00 Building the right team vs. carrying everything yourself
  • 14:00 Discovering EOS and creating structure
  • 16:00 Why most businesses operate in chaos without realizing it
  • 18:00 Revenue vs. profit, and where leaders get stuck
  • 19:30 How chaos impacts your team and culture
  • 21:00 The power of simple systems in complex businesses
  • 22:00 Doing it yourself vs. getting the right support
  • 25:00 The real ROI of structure (time, clarity, peace of mind)
  • 27:00 What a true leadership team actually looks like
  • 29:00 The weekly meeting that transforms your business
  • 31:00 Solving the right problems, not just reacting
  • 33:00 Why most teams avoid hard conversations
  • 35:00 “Enter the danger” and leading through discomfort
  • 37:00 Lessons on profit, purpose, and long-term impact

Connect with Kevin


Connect with me


#BusinessGrowth #LeadershipDevelopment #Entrepreneurship

]]>5c6a7b59-dc2a-48b5-b01b-ae70e34ee5dfWed, 22 Apr 2026 04:00:00 -040046:06falsefull99008: The Taylor Swift Leadership Lesson No One’s Talking About008: The Taylor Swift Leadership Lesson No One’s Talking AboutWhat can Taylor Swift teach you about leadership, team building, and scaling something massive?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout breaks down the real leadership lessons behind the Eras Tour, and why most leaders are getting this completely wrong.

Because behind the headlines, the sold-out stadiums, and the $2B success story… is something most leaders overlook:

No one builds anything great alone.

This episode challenges the idea of the “self-made” leader and unpacks what it actually takes to build a high-performing, aligned, and trusted team.

If you’ve ever felt like everything depends on you… this one will hit.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why “self-made leadership” is one of the most damaging myths in business
  • How sharing the spotlight strengthens your leadership instead of weakening it
  • Why recognition is a strategic tool, not just a nice gesture
  • What high-performing teams actually need in order to step up
  • The connection between clear standards and team ownership
  • Why reinvention is required as you grow, not optional
  • How to stop leading on autopilot and start leading with intention

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why leadership inspiration can come from unexpected places
  • 01:00 The Eras Tour as a high-performance organization
  • 02:30 The myth of the “self-made” leader
  • 05:00 Where leaders try to do too much (and why it backfires)
  • 06:30 Sharing the spotlight and building stronger teams
  • 09:30 Recognition and why it reinforces what actually matters
  • 11:30 The role of standards in high-performing teams
  • 13:30 What it takes to execute at a high level consistently
  • 15:30 Reinvention, growth, and letting go of old leadership habits
  • 17:30 Where leaders get stuck (and don’t realize it)
  • 18:30 Why success takes longer than we think
  • 19:30 Final leadership gut checks to apply immediately

Connect with me


#LeadershipGrowth #HighPerformingTeams #LeadershipDevelopment

]]>What can Taylor Swift teach you about leadership, team building, and scaling something massive?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout breaks down the real leadership lessons behind the Eras Tour, and why most leaders are getting this completely wrong.

Because behind the headlines, the sold-out stadiums, and the $2B success story… is something most leaders overlook:

No one builds anything great alone.

This episode challenges the idea of the “self-made” leader and unpacks what it actually takes to build a high-performing, aligned, and trusted team.

If you’ve ever felt like everything depends on you… this one will hit.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why “self-made leadership” is one of the most damaging myths in business
  • How sharing the spotlight strengthens your leadership instead of weakening it
  • Why recognition is a strategic tool, not just a nice gesture
  • What high-performing teams actually need in order to step up
  • The connection between clear standards and team ownership
  • Why reinvention is required as you grow, not optional
  • How to stop leading on autopilot and start leading with intention

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why leadership inspiration can come from unexpected places
  • 01:00 The Eras Tour as a high-performance organization
  • 02:30 The myth of the “self-made” leader
  • 05:00 Where leaders try to do too much (and why it backfires)
  • 06:30 Sharing the spotlight and building stronger teams
  • 09:30 Recognition and why it reinforces what actually matters
  • 11:30 The role of standards in high-performing teams
  • 13:30 What it takes to execute at a high level consistently
  • 15:30 Reinvention, growth, and letting go of old leadership habits
  • 17:30 Where leaders get stuck (and don’t realize it)
  • 18:30 Why success takes longer than we think
  • 19:30 Final leadership gut checks to apply immediately

Connect with me


#LeadershipGrowth #HighPerformingTeams #LeadershipDevelopment

]]>36b818a6-5c48-44d7-96fd-1ceec372a9e0Wed, 15 Apr 2026 04:00:00 -040021:18falsefull88007: I Took a Bigger Leadership Role… And Everything I Knew Stopped Working | Chuck Mingo007: I Took a Bigger Leadership Role… And Everything I Knew Stopped Working | Chuck MingoWhat happens when the leadership skills that made you successful… suddenly stop working?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Chuck Mingo to unpack a hard truth most leaders learn the hard way, you cannot lead every team the same way, even if you’ve done it before.

Chuck shares lessons from leading across corporate, nonprofit, and ministry spaces, and why trying to copy and paste your leadership style can quietly lead to frustration, burnout, and broken trust.

This conversation reframes leadership as something situational, not static, and shows why your ability to adapt matters more than your past success.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why leadership does not transfer the way you think it will
  • The difference between your calling and your assignment as a leader
  • Why every new role requires both celebration and grief
  • How copy-pasting leadership creates friction and burnout
  • What it actually takes to build trust across differences
  • Why humility and curiosity outperform authority
  • How to lead based on the team in front of you, not the one before

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why leadership doesn’t transfer across teams
  • 02:00 Chuck’s first leadership experiences and early influence
  • 06:00 Leading at Procter & Gamble and navigating power dynamics
  • 08:30 Building trust across age, race, and experience differences
  • 10:30 A real example of empathy-based leadership in action
  • 12:00 Why “powering up” as a leader often fails
  • 13:30 Transitioning between corporate, church, and nonprofit leadership
  • 15:00 The cost of trying to reuse old leadership frameworks
  • 16:30 Calling vs assignment, a mindset shift for every leader
  • 18:30 Burnout, misalignment, and learning the hard way
  • 20:30 Why every team is a new team
  • 22:00 Situational leadership and adapting in real time
  • 23:30 The evolution of Undivided and leading through complexity

Connect with Chuck


Connect with me


#AdaptiveLeadership #LeadershipGrowth #ModernLeadership

]]>What happens when the leadership skills that made you successful… suddenly stop working?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Chuck Mingo to unpack a hard truth most leaders learn the hard way, you cannot lead every team the same way, even if you’ve done it before.

Chuck shares lessons from leading across corporate, nonprofit, and ministry spaces, and why trying to copy and paste your leadership style can quietly lead to frustration, burnout, and broken trust.

This conversation reframes leadership as something situational, not static, and shows why your ability to adapt matters more than your past success.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why leadership does not transfer the way you think it will
  • The difference between your calling and your assignment as a leader
  • Why every new role requires both celebration and grief
  • How copy-pasting leadership creates friction and burnout
  • What it actually takes to build trust across differences
  • Why humility and curiosity outperform authority
  • How to lead based on the team in front of you, not the one before

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why leadership doesn’t transfer across teams
  • 02:00 Chuck’s first leadership experiences and early influence
  • 06:00 Leading at Procter & Gamble and navigating power dynamics
  • 08:30 Building trust across age, race, and experience differences
  • 10:30 A real example of empathy-based leadership in action
  • 12:00 Why “powering up” as a leader often fails
  • 13:30 Transitioning between corporate, church, and nonprofit leadership
  • 15:00 The cost of trying to reuse old leadership frameworks
  • 16:30 Calling vs assignment, a mindset shift for every leader
  • 18:30 Burnout, misalignment, and learning the hard way
  • 20:30 Why every team is a new team
  • 22:00 Situational leadership and adapting in real time
  • 23:30 The evolution of Undivided and leading through complexity

Connect with Chuck


Connect with me


#AdaptiveLeadership #LeadershipGrowth #ModernLeadership

]]>fe950d3b-e349-437c-a62a-6749e0556809Wed, 08 Apr 2026 04:00:00 -040043:49falsefull77006: I Built a Company… Then Felt Like an Employee in It | Sean Platt006: I Built a Company… Then Felt Like an Employee in It | Sean PlattWhat if the problem isn’t your effort, but how you see your ideas?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Sean Platt, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and founder of Sterling and Stone, to unpack the difference between creating content and building something that actually lasts.

Sean shares stories from a career that doesn’t follow a straight line, from running a family flower shop at 17 to building one of the most prolific indie publishing companies in the world. But the real shift came after a major setback, when a million-dollar hit forced him to rethink not just his business, but how he approached ideas, storytelling, and value.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why most creators are dramatically underestimating their intellectual property
  • The difference between creating content and building an IP-driven business
  • How Sean rebuilt after a $1M business setback and what it taught him about leadership
  • Why thinking “book-first” is limiting your growth potential
  • How to turn one idea into multiple revenue streams across platforms
  • Why innovation, not consistency alone, is what drives long-term success

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The moment Sean realized he was “the boss” at 17
  • 02:30 Leadership pressure, responsibility, and hard decisions early on
  • 05:00 Why culture and standards matter more than comfort
  • 08:30 Customer experience, emotional environments, and business impact
  • 11:00 Hitting a wall, burnout, and a $1M business collapse
  • 13:30 Stepping away from CEO and losing direction
  • 15:00 The shift from ghostwriting to IP strategy
  • 17:00 Why most creators undervalue their ideas
  • 23:00 Why you can’t scale everything, and shouldn’t try
  • 25:00 Culture reset, entitlement, and rebuilding the right team
  • 27:00 The danger of trusting the wrong people in leadership
  • 29:00 Trusting your instincts vs overthinking decisions
  • 31:00 The biggest leadership lesson Sean learned the hard way
  • 33:00 Lightning round, books, failure, and creative influence

Connect with Sean


Connect with me


#IntellectualProperty #BuildInPublic #EntrepreneurMindset

]]>What if the problem isn’t your effort, but how you see your ideas?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Sean Platt, bestselling author, entrepreneur, and founder of Sterling and Stone, to unpack the difference between creating content and building something that actually lasts.

Sean shares stories from a career that doesn’t follow a straight line, from running a family flower shop at 17 to building one of the most prolific indie publishing companies in the world. But the real shift came after a major setback, when a million-dollar hit forced him to rethink not just his business, but how he approached ideas, storytelling, and value.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why most creators are dramatically underestimating their intellectual property
  • The difference between creating content and building an IP-driven business
  • How Sean rebuilt after a $1M business setback and what it taught him about leadership
  • Why thinking “book-first” is limiting your growth potential
  • How to turn one idea into multiple revenue streams across platforms
  • Why innovation, not consistency alone, is what drives long-term success

We talk about:

  • 00:00 The moment Sean realized he was “the boss” at 17
  • 02:30 Leadership pressure, responsibility, and hard decisions early on
  • 05:00 Why culture and standards matter more than comfort
  • 08:30 Customer experience, emotional environments, and business impact
  • 11:00 Hitting a wall, burnout, and a $1M business collapse
  • 13:30 Stepping away from CEO and losing direction
  • 15:00 The shift from ghostwriting to IP strategy
  • 17:00 Why most creators undervalue their ideas
  • 23:00 Why you can’t scale everything, and shouldn’t try
  • 25:00 Culture reset, entitlement, and rebuilding the right team
  • 27:00 The danger of trusting the wrong people in leadership
  • 29:00 Trusting your instincts vs overthinking decisions
  • 31:00 The biggest leadership lesson Sean learned the hard way
  • 33:00 Lightning round, books, failure, and creative influence

Connect with Sean


Connect with me


#IntellectualProperty #BuildInPublic #EntrepreneurMindset

]]>7f0d4a5e-4a30-45cc-a9cd-ae36a9c38aa9Wed, 01 Apr 2026 08:00:00 -040037:46falsefull66005: What Breakdancing Taught Me About Leadership (Great Leaders Coach, Not Control) | Paul Spence005: What Breakdancing Taught Me About Leadership (Great Leaders Coach, Not Control) | Paul SpenceWhat does it actually mean to lead like a coach?

In this episode, Katie Armentrout sits down with Paul Spence, Chief Development Officer of Pillar Media, to explore the leadership mindset that elevates teams instead of controlling them.

Paul shares lessons from a leadership journey that began in unexpected places, including being elected leader of a break-dancing group at age twelve, running a homeless shelter in his mid-twenties, and leading major nonprofit fundraising initiatives that raised more than $100 million. Along the way, he learned that leadership is not about authority or titles. It is about developing people.

Paul explains why great leaders adopt a coaching mentality, helping the people around them grow, solve problems, and perform at their highest level.

You’ll discover:

  • Why leadership works best when leaders adopt a coaching mindset
  • How great leaders elevate the people around them instead of controlling them
  • What leaders can learn from sports about building strong teams
  • How to guide teams through fear and uncertainty during major change
  • Why organizational culture is shaped by how leaders treat people
  • How humility and self-awareness improve leadership effectiveness
  • How feedback reveals leadership blind spots that limit growth
  • Why leaders must balance compassion with accountability

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 01:30 Becoming a leader at age twelve in a break-dancing group
  • 03:30 Why Paul views leadership through a coaching mindset
  • 05:00 Managing fear and uncertainty during major organizational change
  • 09:30 Key differences between nonprofit and for-profit leadership
  • 13:30 The challenge of restructuring teams without resources
  • 15:00 Wearing different leadership hats when supporting team members
  • 17:30 How leaders communicate ideas without overpowering teams
  • 21:00 Learning empathy and improving communication as a leader
  • 24:30 Favorite leadership books and influences
  • 26:30 Leadership lessons learned from failure

Connect with Paul


Connect with me


]]>What does it actually mean to lead like a coach?

In this episode, Katie Armentrout sits down with Paul Spence, Chief Development Officer of Pillar Media, to explore the leadership mindset that elevates teams instead of controlling them.

Paul shares lessons from a leadership journey that began in unexpected places, including being elected leader of a break-dancing group at age twelve, running a homeless shelter in his mid-twenties, and leading major nonprofit fundraising initiatives that raised more than $100 million. Along the way, he learned that leadership is not about authority or titles. It is about developing people.

Paul explains why great leaders adopt a coaching mentality, helping the people around them grow, solve problems, and perform at their highest level.

You’ll discover:

  • Why leadership works best when leaders adopt a coaching mindset
  • How great leaders elevate the people around them instead of controlling them
  • What leaders can learn from sports about building strong teams
  • How to guide teams through fear and uncertainty during major change
  • Why organizational culture is shaped by how leaders treat people
  • How humility and self-awareness improve leadership effectiveness
  • How feedback reveals leadership blind spots that limit growth
  • Why leaders must balance compassion with accountability

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 01:30 Becoming a leader at age twelve in a break-dancing group
  • 03:30 Why Paul views leadership through a coaching mindset
  • 05:00 Managing fear and uncertainty during major organizational change
  • 09:30 Key differences between nonprofit and for-profit leadership
  • 13:30 The challenge of restructuring teams without resources
  • 15:00 Wearing different leadership hats when supporting team members
  • 17:30 How leaders communicate ideas without overpowering teams
  • 21:00 Learning empathy and improving communication as a leader
  • 24:30 Favorite leadership books and influences
  • 26:30 Leadership lessons learned from failure

Connect with Paul


Connect with me


]]>8e546944-5110-4f0e-adf1-1ada11548879Wed, 25 Mar 2026 08:00:00 -040032:06falsefull55004: The AI Coach Every Leader Needs. Why Fear Is Quietly Running Your Team | Darrin Murriner004: The AI Coach Every Leader Needs. Why Fear Is Quietly Running Your Team | Darrin MurrinerFear quietly shapes more leadership decisions than most people realize.

In this episode, Katie Armentrout sits down with Darrin Murriner, CEO and Co-founder of Cloverleaf and author of Corporate Bravery, to explore how fear influences leadership, decision-making, and workplace culture.

Darrin shares how his early leadership experience at just 17 years old managing a Burger King revealed the complicated power dynamics that come with leadership. Darrin explains why fear-based leadership leads to poor decisions, broken trust, and stalled innovation. Instead, he argues that leaders must build cultures rooted in trust, psychological safety, and courageous decision-making.

Learn:

  • Why fear is one of the most powerful forces shaping leadership decisions
  • The leadership mindset required to build courageous organizations
  • Why psychological safety is essential for healthy leadership teams
  • How leaders can create cultures where people speak up and challenge ideas
  • Why strong teams outperform even the most talented individuals
  • How behavioral assessments improve communication and team collaboration
  • The role AI coaching tools can play in leadership development

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 04:40 The leadership moment that forced a mindset shift
  • 06:00 Self-awareness, leadership mistakes, and personal growth
  • 08:40 Psychological safety and why teams must challenge each other
  • 12:40 How culture is shaped by what leaders tolerate
  • 13:10 Inside Cloverleaf and AI-powered leadership coaching
  • 17:30 Applying behavioral insights to improve team communication
  • 22:00 Starting Cloverleaf and making courageous business decisions
  • 25:00 Building the right team and knowing your leadership limits
  • 27:00 Why leadership growth determines the ceiling of your team
  • 29:30 Lightning round: books, failures, and leadership lessons
  • 34:00 Walk-on music and final reflections

Connect with Darrin


Connect with me


]]>Fear quietly shapes more leadership decisions than most people realize.

In this episode, Katie Armentrout sits down with Darrin Murriner, CEO and Co-founder of Cloverleaf and author of Corporate Bravery, to explore how fear influences leadership, decision-making, and workplace culture.

Darrin shares how his early leadership experience at just 17 years old managing a Burger King revealed the complicated power dynamics that come with leadership. Darrin explains why fear-based leadership leads to poor decisions, broken trust, and stalled innovation. Instead, he argues that leaders must build cultures rooted in trust, psychological safety, and courageous decision-making.

Learn:

  • Why fear is one of the most powerful forces shaping leadership decisions
  • The leadership mindset required to build courageous organizations
  • Why psychological safety is essential for healthy leadership teams
  • How leaders can create cultures where people speak up and challenge ideas
  • Why strong teams outperform even the most talented individuals
  • How behavioral assessments improve communication and team collaboration
  • The role AI coaching tools can play in leadership development

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Intro
  • 04:40 The leadership moment that forced a mindset shift
  • 06:00 Self-awareness, leadership mistakes, and personal growth
  • 08:40 Psychological safety and why teams must challenge each other
  • 12:40 How culture is shaped by what leaders tolerate
  • 13:10 Inside Cloverleaf and AI-powered leadership coaching
  • 17:30 Applying behavioral insights to improve team communication
  • 22:00 Starting Cloverleaf and making courageous business decisions
  • 25:00 Building the right team and knowing your leadership limits
  • 27:00 Why leadership growth determines the ceiling of your team
  • 29:30 Lightning round: books, failures, and leadership lessons
  • 34:00 Walk-on music and final reflections

Connect with Darrin


Connect with me


]]>b0d7ffa4-1b9a-426b-bcab-dc61f30bacfcWed, 18 Mar 2026 08:00:00 -040036:49falsefull44003: Nice Leaders Create Weak Teams. The Courage to Give Honest Feedback | Katie Armentrout003: Nice Leaders Create Weak Teams. The Courage to Give Honest Feedback | Katie ArmentroutWhat if being “nice” is hurting your team?

Leadership feedback is one of the most uncomfortable skills leaders have to learn, and one of the most important.

In the first episode of Think Outside the Boss, leadership coach Katie Armentrout explains why avoiding difficult conversations in the name of being “nice” actually damages trust, performance, and team growth.

Katie shares a real story from early in her corporate career when she unknowingly sent incorrect reports to dozens of leaders for weeks without anyone telling her. The mistake itself was fixable, but the silence around it revealed a deeper leadership problem.

This episode breaks down why courageous leaders communicate clearly, address problems directly, and create environments where people can grow through honest feedback.

If you manage people, own a business, or want to lead more effectively, this episode will change how you think about communication and accountability.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why people cannot fix problems they do not know exist
  • The difference between nice leadership and courageous leadership
  • Why avoiding conflict weakens teams
  • How to communicate feedback clearly without sugarcoating
  • The leadership habit that quietly destroys trust

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why leaders must stop being “nice”
  • 01:00 The story that changed Katie’s leadership philosophy
  • 03:30 The leadership mistake that allowed the problem to continue
  • 06:30 The impact of silence on confidence and trust
  • 09:30 How to clearly communicate problems to your team
  • 12:00 The NICE leadership acronym explained
  • 13:30 Three takeaways every leader should remember

Connect with me


#LeadershipFeedback #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipCommunication #ManagementSkills #TeamLeadership

]]>What if being “nice” is hurting your team?

Leadership feedback is one of the most uncomfortable skills leaders have to learn, and one of the most important.

In the first episode of Think Outside the Boss, leadership coach Katie Armentrout explains why avoiding difficult conversations in the name of being “nice” actually damages trust, performance, and team growth.

Katie shares a real story from early in her corporate career when she unknowingly sent incorrect reports to dozens of leaders for weeks without anyone telling her. The mistake itself was fixable, but the silence around it revealed a deeper leadership problem.

This episode breaks down why courageous leaders communicate clearly, address problems directly, and create environments where people can grow through honest feedback.

If you manage people, own a business, or want to lead more effectively, this episode will change how you think about communication and accountability.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why people cannot fix problems they do not know exist
  • The difference between nice leadership and courageous leadership
  • Why avoiding conflict weakens teams
  • How to communicate feedback clearly without sugarcoating
  • The leadership habit that quietly destroys trust

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Why leaders must stop being “nice”
  • 01:00 The story that changed Katie’s leadership philosophy
  • 03:30 The leadership mistake that allowed the problem to continue
  • 06:30 The impact of silence on confidence and trust
  • 09:30 How to clearly communicate problems to your team
  • 12:00 The NICE leadership acronym explained
  • 13:30 Three takeaways every leader should remember

Connect with me


#LeadershipFeedback #LeadershipDevelopment #LeadershipCommunication #ManagementSkills #TeamLeadership

]]>8a4d3214-89f4-44a5-b687-2f59278aa72cFri, 13 Mar 2026 02:43:00 -040014:20falsefull33002: Why Employees Stay. Dream-Driven Leadership with Mary Miller | Katie Armentrout002: Why Employees Stay. Dream-Driven Leadership with Mary Miller | Katie ArmentroutWhat if the key to solving employee turnover has nothing to do with hiring better people?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Mary Miller, founder of the Dream Engineer program and the leadership pioneer whose work inspired the bestselling book The Dream Manager.

In this conversation, Mary shares the leadership mindset that made it possible, why leaders must stop playing the victim when facing staffing challenges, and how creating an environment where employees grow personally leads to stronger businesses.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why employee turnover is often a leadership design problem
  • The leadership shift that helped dramatically reduce turnover
  • Why solving employees’ real-life obstacles builds loyalty
  • How dream-driven leadership strengthens team engagement

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Introduction to Mary Miller and the Dream Engineer program
  • 02:00 How Jan-Coa transformed from a small cleaning company into an industry leader
  • 04:00 The leadership moment that changed how Mary approached staffing
  • 06:00 Why leaders must change the questions they ask about hiring
  • 10:00 Solving transportation challenges to improve employee retention
  • 15:00 Leadership lessons from connecting directly with employees
  • 19:00 How the Dream Engineer program was created
  • 23:00 Why leaders must stop playing the victim in staffing challenges
  • 28:00 The power of conversations and collaboration inside teams
  • 34:00 Creating an environment where employees support each other’s growth
  • 38:00 Why dreaming about the future prevents burnout
  • 41:00 Lightning round: leadership books, advice, and personality tests
  • 44:00 Mary’s biggest failure and the lesson it taught her

Connect with Mary


Connect with me


]]>What if the key to solving employee turnover has nothing to do with hiring better people?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with Mary Miller, founder of the Dream Engineer program and the leadership pioneer whose work inspired the bestselling book The Dream Manager.

In this conversation, Mary shares the leadership mindset that made it possible, why leaders must stop playing the victim when facing staffing challenges, and how creating an environment where employees grow personally leads to stronger businesses.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why employee turnover is often a leadership design problem
  • The leadership shift that helped dramatically reduce turnover
  • Why solving employees’ real-life obstacles builds loyalty
  • How dream-driven leadership strengthens team engagement

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Introduction to Mary Miller and the Dream Engineer program
  • 02:00 How Jan-Coa transformed from a small cleaning company into an industry leader
  • 04:00 The leadership moment that changed how Mary approached staffing
  • 06:00 Why leaders must change the questions they ask about hiring
  • 10:00 Solving transportation challenges to improve employee retention
  • 15:00 Leadership lessons from connecting directly with employees
  • 19:00 How the Dream Engineer program was created
  • 23:00 Why leaders must stop playing the victim in staffing challenges
  • 28:00 The power of conversations and collaboration inside teams
  • 34:00 Creating an environment where employees support each other’s growth
  • 38:00 Why dreaming about the future prevents burnout
  • 41:00 Lightning round: leadership books, advice, and personality tests
  • 44:00 Mary’s biggest failure and the lesson it taught her

Connect with Mary


Connect with me


]]>92045432-b0b2-4a45-8cdc-c37537e4aa15Wed, 11 Mar 2026 08:30:00 -040042:16falsefull22001: Build a Team That Runs Without You. Leadership Lessons from Greg Walker | Katie Armentrout001: Build a Team That Runs Without You. Leadership Lessons from Greg Walker | Katie ArmentroutWhat does it really mean to lead people, not just manage them?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with leadership facilitator and entrepreneur Greg Walker, founder of Catalyst Training Group, to unpack the real work of leadership.

Greg shares the moment he realized leadership meant carrying the weight of other people’s livelihoods, when he had to fire someone early in his management career and understood the responsibility that comes with being “the boss.”

Rather than relying on authority, Greg leaned into a leadership philosophy he calls “connect before you correct.” Through relationship-building, structured conversations, behavioral insights, and intentional culture design, the team eventually began managing itself.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why authority alone does not create strong teams
  • The leadership principle “connect before you correct”
  • How relationship capital builds trust within teams
  • Why understanding behavioral styles improves team communication
  • How leaders can shift conflict into productive conversations
  • Why team culture must be intentionally designed
  • How leaders can build teams that hold themselves accountable

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Introducing Greg Walker and Catalyst Training Group
  • 02:10 The moment Greg realized he was truly “the boss”
  • 08:30 Greg’s leadership background and early career lessons
  • 11:45 Connect before you correct, the leadership principle that changes teams
  • 17:00 Rebuilding trust and developing relationship capital with your team
  • 23:00 Practical strategies for transforming team culture
  • 27:30 Why shared experiences strengthen team dynamics
  • 30:00 Creating accountability through culture and social contracts
  • 33:20 Encouraging healthy conflict and open feedback
  • 38:00 Greg’s story of homelessness and the character it built
  • 40:00 Greg’s walk-on song and final leadership reflections

Connect with Greg


Connect with me


]]>What does it really mean to lead people, not just manage them?

In this episode of Think Outside the Boss, Katie Armentrout sits down with leadership facilitator and entrepreneur Greg Walker, founder of Catalyst Training Group, to unpack the real work of leadership.

Greg shares the moment he realized leadership meant carrying the weight of other people’s livelihoods, when he had to fire someone early in his management career and understood the responsibility that comes with being “the boss.”

Rather than relying on authority, Greg leaned into a leadership philosophy he calls “connect before you correct.” Through relationship-building, structured conversations, behavioral insights, and intentional culture design, the team eventually began managing itself.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • Why authority alone does not create strong teams
  • The leadership principle “connect before you correct”
  • How relationship capital builds trust within teams
  • Why understanding behavioral styles improves team communication
  • How leaders can shift conflict into productive conversations
  • Why team culture must be intentionally designed
  • How leaders can build teams that hold themselves accountable

We talk about:

  • 00:00 Introducing Greg Walker and Catalyst Training Group
  • 02:10 The moment Greg realized he was truly “the boss”
  • 08:30 Greg’s leadership background and early career lessons
  • 11:45 Connect before you correct, the leadership principle that changes teams
  • 17:00 Rebuilding trust and developing relationship capital with your team
  • 23:00 Practical strategies for transforming team culture
  • 27:30 Why shared experiences strengthen team dynamics
  • 30:00 Creating accountability through culture and social contracts
  • 33:20 Encouraging healthy conflict and open feedback
  • 38:00 Greg’s story of homelessness and the character it built
  • 40:00 Greg’s walk-on song and final leadership reflections

Connect with Greg


Connect with me


]]>2a700176-2dd1-4d1e-a119-70836639c14aWed, 11 Mar 2026 08:15:00 -040034:45falsefull11Trailer | Welcome to Think Outside the BossTrailer | Welcome to Think Outside the BossLeadership would be easy if it weren’t for the people.

Think Outside the Boss is a leadership podcast for business owners, founders, and people leaders who are tired of managing team drama and ready to lead differently, more human, more effective, and with a lot less exhaustion.

Hosted by Katie Armentrout, a recovering corporate leader turned entrepreneur, this show challenges traditional leadership development and replaces it with something far more useful. Clear thinking. Better conversations. And one practical action you can try right away.

Through honest solo episodes and real conversations with experienced leaders, Think Outside the Boss explores proven leadership frameworks, innovative ideas, and people-first tools you can actually use. No theory for theory’s sake. No performative leadership nonsense.

You’ll learn how to:

  • Strengthen trust and accountability without micromanaging
  • Navigate team conflict and communication breakdowns
  • Build a culture where employees feel valued and customers stay loyal
  • Lead people with clarity instead of control

There’s no silver bullet when it comes to people. But there are better ways to think, choose, and lead.

No corporate lingo bingo.
No meeting after the meeting.

If leadership has started to feel heavier than it should, this podcast is your invitation to Think Outside the Boss.

🎧 New episodes weekly
🌐 https://www.peoplefluence.com/podcast

]]>Leadership would be easy if it weren’t for the people.

Think Outside the Boss is a leadership podcast for business owners, founders, and people leaders who are tired of managing team drama and ready to lead differently, more human, more effective, and with a lot less exhaustion.

Hosted by Katie Armentrout, a recovering corporate leader turned entrepreneur, this show challenges traditional leadership development and replaces it with something far more useful. Clear thinking. Better conversations. And one practical action you can try right away.

Through honest solo episodes and real conversations with experienced leaders, Think Outside the Boss explores proven leadership frameworks, innovative ideas, and people-first tools you can actually use. No theory for theory’s sake. No performative leadership nonsense.

You’ll learn how to:

  • Strengthen trust and accountability without micromanaging
  • Navigate team conflict and communication breakdowns
  • Build a culture where employees feel valued and customers stay loyal
  • Lead people with clarity instead of control

There’s no silver bullet when it comes to people. But there are better ways to think, choose, and lead.

No corporate lingo bingo.
No meeting after the meeting.

If leadership has started to feel heavier than it should, this podcast is your invitation to Think Outside the Boss.

🎧 New episodes weekly
🌐 https://www.peoplefluence.com/podcast

]]>b89b6b5c-fafb-4736-b8d5-d9c96d385864Mon, 02 Mar 2026 03:10:54 -040002:10falsetrailer