00:32 Lee lets listeners know this surreal episode to say good-bye is the last for Unfiltered.

01:28 Lee explains a couple different reasons why Danny and Lee are hanging up the microphones. 

03:19 Danny thanks Lee for his impact and investment in Converge’s church planting movement.

05:10 Lee shares what the Lord has been laying on his heart when it comes to the connection between academia and pastoring.

06:49 Even though the podcast is ending, it will still be available online. Danny asks Lee the best way future listeners can contact him.

09:31 Danny asks Lee one last question. 

12:19 Lee shares one last piece of advice for church planters.

12:47 Lee thanks Danny and listeners for the Unfiltered experience. And with that, he signs off the podcast for the last time!

0:28 Lee introduces the topic, which is a subject he and Danny deal with often. Why is church planting so hard?

1:07 Danny has a theory that because church planting is so personal, it makes it difficult. 

2:23 Danny reflects on when he planted a church and was asked how he was personally doing, he would report how the church was doing.

2:45 Lee agrees with Danny that it’s easy for church planters to personalize every aspect of how a church is doing.

3:22 Lee speaks to how spiritual warfare is a part of the challenges a church planter will face.

4:14 Danny reiterates that spiritual warfare can get very personal not only for a church planter, but also for his family.

4:39 Another reason church planting can be so hard is that when a church is small, everything is magnified, and it doesn’t take a lot for the dynamic to shift quickly.

6:33 Unrealistic expectations can also play into the difficulty of planting a church.

7:04 Lee compares launching a church to launching a rocket and how gravitational pull plays into church planting.

8:03 Danny shares that money plus preaching doesn’t always equal success.

9:40 Lee wants to normalize the difficulties of planting a church. He encourages church planters to enjoy the journey.

10:18 Danny encourages church planters to focus on faithfulness. He explains what he means by that.

11:10 Lee agrees with Danny’s perspective and encourages church planters that even though it’s hard, it’s worth it.

11:35 Lee asks for more people to step up to be church planters, because they are needed!

0:29 Danny introduces the episode topic of church residencies and internships when it comes to ministry.

1:00 Lee admits he’s passionate about the need for residencies and internships because of his background in his education and church experience. 

1:20 Lee knows there are a lot of gaps when it comes to getting an education in ministry and executing ministry. He explains his view on this.

3:06 What is a residency? Lee explains what it is and what it isn’t.

4:09 Danny asks what’s the difference between an internship and a residency?

4:19 Lee shares his thoughts on how an internship in a church is different from a residency.

5:04 Danny wants to know what ministry residencies look like at Harvest Community Church, the church Lee pastors.

5:25 Lee gives a run down of what completed residencies at Harvest Community Church have looked like and what’s going on with their current residencies.

8:47 Danny wants to know if residencies are paid position, and if not, how does that work for the student?

9:11 Lee explains the preference both Converge and Harvest Community Church have when it comes to paid vs. unpaid church residencies. 

10:14 Danny touches on the benefits of raising support for church planting residents.

10:39 Lee gives some tips on other non-monetary ways churches can invest in and support church planting residents.

11:46 Danny wants to know: what questions should church planters ask churches as they consider completing a residency?

12:01 Lee reveals the number one question church planters should ask.

12:30 Lee talks about the second question that needs to be asked when considering a residency and when a church planter should walk away.

13:36 Lee reflects on his time of practical learning before he planted a church.

14:10 Do you have questions about finding a residency, opening your church to hosting a resident, or anything else? Email Converge to ask and receive some follow up!

Note: There are three books referenced in this podcast episode. They are: Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson, Communicating for Change by Andy Stanley, and Preaching Without Notes by Joseph M. Webb.

0:19 Lee introduces the question, “How do we improve our preaching?”

0:53 Danny shares that he is still learning and adapting how he preaches.

1:11 Lee asks Danny how he prepares to preach and how his process has changed over time.

1:33 Danny reflects on how he was taught to preach via manuscript in seminary. But he didn’t stick with that style when he planted a church. He pivoted to more of a memorization style of preaching. And over time, the way he prepared notes changed, especially after going multi-site.

4:03 Lee asks Danny if his manuscript is paper or electronic.

4:07 Danny isn’t a fan of digital manuscripts because technology can fail. But he adds that if you prepare with a manuscript correctly, you should be going over it at least ten times. So, you end up memorizing much of it, without having to consult the actual manuscript very much.

5:13 Lee asks Danny if he includes scripture passages in his manuscript.

5:18 Danny confirms all scripture he uses is written out in his manuscript, but he still physically uses a Bible during sermons and explains why.

5:46 Lee walks through his process in preparing for a sermon. He began with an outline, but as he planted, his process changed to a full manuscript. Preparing a manuscript helps Lee mentally, allowing the Holy Spirit to work as he preaches.

7:26 Danny asks Lee why he uses an outline when preaching, instead of the manuscript he’s already prepared.

7:37 Lee clarifies that even though he’s memorized his sermon manuscript, he doesn’t want to be tied to every word he’s prepared.

8:04 Lee describes the physical space he likes when preaching: no lectern, just a stool and an outline paperclipped inside his Bible.

8:42 Using a stool helps Lee preach a little more conversationally and less intensely.

9:00 Lee ponders how pastors learn what works for them, when it comes to preaching. Two things helped him. The first is getting sermon feedback from trusted people, by asking specific questions. 

9:55 Danny emphasizes asking specific open-ended questions to get helpful feedback.

10:32 The second thing Lee does to learn what works, is to listen or watch his sermons to learn from it.

10:54 Danny advises to watch your sermons back on video to find distracting mannerisms. 

12:00 Danny reminds pastors to stay sharp on their exegesis. Not only should pastors be focused on the delivery of a sermon, but also that the structure is accurate to the text.

13:10 Lee asks Danny what books have helped him develop his preaching.

13:26 Danny recommends the book Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson, as it teaches authorial intent.

14:12 Danny believes that preaching is the top discipleship tool. It teaches people how to read and apply the Bible.

14:51 Lee reflects that a seasoned pastor coached him to have the perspective that people should connect the dots of a sermon days after hearing...]]>As a pastor, it can be easy to slip into a comfortable rhythm and habit of preaching. And while change isn’t always easy, you should always be looking to improve and develop the way you preach. As the years in ministry slip by, it’s necessary at times to assess if your preaching could use some improvement; whether you’re a rookie or a seasoned pastor. 

Note: There are three books referenced in this podcast episode. They are: Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson, Communicating for Change by Andy Stanley, and Preaching Without Notes by Joseph M. Webb.

0:19 Lee introduces the question, “How do we improve our preaching?”

0:53 Danny shares that he is still learning and adapting how he preaches.

1:11 Lee asks Danny how he prepares to preach and how his process has changed over time.

1:33 Danny reflects on how he was taught to preach via manuscript in seminary. But he didn’t stick with that style when he planted a church. He pivoted to more of a memorization style of preaching. And over time, the way he prepared notes changed, especially after going multi-site.

4:03 Lee asks Danny if his manuscript is paper or electronic.

4:07 Danny isn’t a fan of digital manuscripts because technology can fail. But he adds that if you prepare with a manuscript correctly, you should be going over it at least ten times. So, you end up memorizing much of it, without having to consult the actual manuscript very much.

5:13 Lee asks Danny if he includes scripture passages in his manuscript.

5:18 Danny confirms all scripture he uses is written out in his manuscript, but he still physically uses a Bible during sermons and explains why.

5:46 Lee walks through his process in preparing for a sermon. He began with an outline, but as he planted, his process changed to a full manuscript. Preparing a manuscript helps Lee mentally, allowing the Holy Spirit to work as he preaches.

7:26 Danny asks Lee why he uses an outline when preaching, instead of the manuscript he’s already prepared.

7:37 Lee clarifies that even though he’s memorized his sermon manuscript, he doesn’t want to be tied to every word he’s prepared.

8:04 Lee describes the physical space he likes when preaching: no lectern, just a stool and an outline paperclipped inside his Bible.

8:42 Using a stool helps Lee preach a little more conversationally and less intensely.

9:00 Lee ponders how pastors learn what works for them, when it comes to preaching. Two things helped him. The first is getting sermon feedback from trusted people, by asking specific questions. 

9:55 Danny emphasizes asking specific open-ended questions to get helpful feedback.

10:32 The second thing Lee does to learn what works, is to listen or watch his sermons to learn from it.

10:54 Danny advises to watch your sermons back on video to find distracting mannerisms. 

12:00 Danny reminds pastors to stay sharp on their exegesis. Not only should pastors be focused on the delivery of a sermon, but also that the structure is accurate to the text.

13:10 Lee asks Danny what books have helped him develop his preaching.

13:26 Danny recommends the book Biblical Preaching by Haddon Robinson, as it teaches authorial intent.

14:12 Danny believes that preaching is the top discipleship tool. It teaches people how to read and apply the Bible.

14:51 Lee reflects that a seasoned pastor coached him to have the perspective that people should connect the dots of a sermon days after hearing it.

15:23 Danny asks Lee if he has book recommendations.

15:27 Lee mentions Andy Stanley’s book Communicating for Change and Preaching Without Notes by Joseph M. Webb.

16:24 Lee thanks listeners for tuning into this episode on growing as a preacher.

0:40 Wes introduces himself and explains his connection to Converge

1:36 Lee asks Wes how he became a church planter in Vermont.

1:54 Wes shares that the reasons he planted in Vermont were because it’s an unreached area, it has a rich heritage, and there are lots of college towns.

2:40 Because Wes stayed at the church he planted for 30 years, Lee asks what advice he would give a church planter when thinking long term ministry.

3:30 Having a long-term mindset was important to Wes so that he and his family could put down roots in one place to provide stability.

4:10 Wes shares that church planters need to be adaptable if they’re going to be successful. Churches change a lot over time when it comes to the non-essential or negotiable parts of a ministry.

5:30 Church planting can be rough at the start. But the betrayals or issues that might come a couple decades into a ministry are the ones that are hard to get through.

6:14 Danny asks Wes if he had a plan for multiplication right from the start of his church planting experience.

6:45 Wes reveals that it was a plan to plant churches and a training center from the beginning.

7:54 A great advantage of planting a church, rather than stepping into an existing church, is that church revitalization can be part of the church’s DNA from the start, according to Wes.

8:10 Wes walks through the timeline his church went through to find a church planter.

8:56 Wes recognized the need for long-term training centers for church planters, all they way back in the 90s, when church planting training was only for one week.

9:56 Danny asks Wes to talk about how The NETS Center of Church Planting has grown from the beginning.

9:59 Wes talks about the slow momentum and growth NETS has seen over the years and how a big breakthrough came 15 years into the program’s existence.

11:20 A campus became available, and Wes tells the story of how NETS acquired it.

12:43 Wes shares about the need for gospel preaching churches in New England, as a small percentage of the population attends an evangelical church.

13:13 NETS has big goals for sending out church planters and they’re getting closer to those goals.

13:36 Lee asks Wes what he’s looking for in a good candidate in a church planter that will be successful in New England.

13:51 Wes runs down what NETS is looking for in the lifestyle of potential church planters.

15:03 Wes covers what NETS is looking for theologically in candidates. And that they’re looking for leaders who are committed to spending the rest of their lives in New England.

16:27 Danny asks if someone who wants to be a part of NETS training can be from other areas of the country.

17:21 Wes confirms he recruits from seminaries in the south and anyone from anywhere in the US can check out NETS.

18:15 Danny wants to know the details of it looks like for someone to be part of NETS.

18:36 Being busy with a full schedule is part of the NETS experience. 

19:24 Taking a real deep look at the marriages of those who come to NETS is part of the training. Many candidates have said it is very helpful for their marriage, even if parts of it are difficult.

20:36 Another aspect is spending a lot of time preparing sermons, to condition candidates more than what was expected in seminary.

20:56 Lee wants to know how long a...]]>0:24 Lee introduces episode guest, Wes Pastor.

0:40 Wes introduces himself and explains his connection to Converge

1:36 Lee asks Wes how he became a church planter in Vermont.

1:54 Wes shares that the reasons he planted in Vermont were because it’s an unreached area, it has a rich heritage, and there are lots of college towns.

2:40 Because Wes stayed at the church he planted for 30 years, Lee asks what advice he would give a church planter when thinking long term ministry.

3:30 Having a long-term mindset was important to Wes so that he and his family could put down roots in one place to provide stability.

4:10 Wes shares that church planters need to be adaptable if they’re going to be successful. Churches change a lot over time when it comes to the non-essential or negotiable parts of a ministry.

5:30 Church planting can be rough at the start. But the betrayals or issues that might come a couple decades into a ministry are the ones that are hard to get through.

6:14 Danny asks Wes if he had a plan for multiplication right from the start of his church planting experience.

6:45 Wes reveals that it was a plan to plant churches and a training center from the beginning.

7:54 A great advantage of planting a church, rather than stepping into an existing church, is that church revitalization can be part of the church’s DNA from the start, according to Wes.

8:10 Wes walks through the timeline his church went through to find a church planter.

8:56 Wes recognized the need for long-term training centers for church planters, all they way back in the 90s, when church planting training was only for one week.

9:56 Danny asks Wes to talk about how The NETS Center of Church Planting has grown from the beginning.

9:59 Wes talks about the slow momentum and growth NETS has seen over the years and how a big breakthrough came 15 years into the program’s existence.

11:20 A campus became available, and Wes tells the story of how NETS acquired it.

12:43 Wes shares about the need for gospel preaching churches in New England, as a small percentage of the population attends an evangelical church.

13:13 NETS has big goals for sending out church planters and they’re getting closer to those goals.

13:36 Lee asks Wes what he’s looking for in a good candidate in a church planter that will be successful in New England.

13:51 Wes runs down what NETS is looking for in the lifestyle of potential church planters.

15:03 Wes covers what NETS is looking for theologically in candidates. And that they’re looking for leaders who are committed to spending the rest of their lives in New England.

16:27 Danny asks if someone who wants to be a part of NETS training can be from other areas of the country.

17:21 Wes confirms he recruits from seminaries in the south and anyone from anywhere in the US can check out NETS.

18:15 Danny wants to know the details of it looks like for someone to be part of NETS.

18:36 Being busy with a full schedule is part of the NETS experience. 

19:24 Taking a real deep look at the marriages of those who come to NETS is part of the training. Many candidates have said it is very helpful for their marriage, even if parts of it are difficult.

20:36 Another aspect is spending a lot of time preparing sermons, to condition candidates more than what was expected in seminary.

20:56 Lee wants to know how long a church planter is in the NETS program.

21:32 Wes says the immediate intensive is nine months. Then, there are four options to choose from on how the potential church planter will proceed. Wes runs through these four options.

22:48 If someone says they can’t stay in New England, Wes helps them affiliate with another ministry.

23:29 Wes explains what candidates receive during the nine-month intensive – housing, utilities, an allowance, and insurance.

24:04 Wes tells a story of a church that is facing building issues and how they stick with and support their church planters. All church planters enter a long-term relationship with NETS.

25:23 Lee thanks Wes for being a guest on the Unfiltered podcast.

0:21 Lee summarizes what Unleash is all about.

1:21 Lee asks Danny what he thought the highlights of the conference were.

1:26 Danny admits he was hesitant to attend Unleash because he goes to so many conferences. But he confirms that it was a can’t miss event for two reasons. First, it felt like a family reunion, coming back together face-to-face. And secondly, he felt like he was pastored by the speakers.

2:50 Lee lists all the keynote speakers at Unleash.

3:00 Lee asks Danny which speaker’s message most connected with him.

3:05 Danny discusses Kevin Queen’s message about being yourself as a pastor.

3:40 Lee shares that Chad Moore and Ryan Leak connected to where he is in this season of ministry and life.

3:56 Lee notes that one of the main themes through all the keynote speakers was being yourself as a pastor.

4:44 Lee talks about a copycat culture as something church planters have been grappling with the past several years, due to widespread access to other churches.

5:17 Lee asks Danny what his takeaway was on this topic of being authentic to who God has created pastors to be.

5:20 Danny states he sees a lot of self-comparison within the church planters he coaches. It’s helpful to look to church planters farther in their journey, but it’s unhealthy to begin to mimic them, hoping for the same success.

6:47 Lee talks about how church planters need to become comfortable with recognizing the different roles and callings from God between pastors.

7:36 Danny recalls when he was a church planter there were times he would begin to feel the pull to imitate other church planters.

8:05 Lee states Unleash felt like a community of family coming back together. It was a time to catch up with one another, celebrate, and pray together in a meaningful way.

8:59 Danny appreciated the way Unleash was structured to include time to network with other attendees.

9:50 Danny asks Lee what’s next for Unleash.

10:00 Lee shares that Unleash will be held again the first week of February in 2023. 2022 was sold out. Tickets for 2023 aren’t on sale yet, but Lee urges listeners not to wait too long when they do become available for purchase. 

0:21 Lee explains that in this episode, he and Danny want to address those who might be on the fence about planting a church. 

0:55 Lee asks Danny what advice he would give to those thinking about church planting.

1:04 Working with guys in the deciding and discernment phase of thinking about church planting is one of Danny’s favorite parts of his job as a church planting director.

2:45 Danny explains that Converge’s process includes a pre-assessment phase.

3:12 A formal assessment, called Church Planting Assessment Center, is the next step in Converge’s process for potential church planters. Danny states there’s one in Nashville in June 2022.

4:18 Danny says Converge doesn’t act as a recruiter, but rather, helps point people in the right direction of which organization they should align with.

4:30 Lee asks Danny what key questions someone should ask when it comes to choosing an organization to plant a church with.

5:15 Danny advises to ask about an organization’s philosophy about planting. And chemistry also factors into a decision.

6:40 Danny addresses the situation of guys who might be hesitant to take a step of contacting Converge about church planting because they don’t know anything about the process of planting.

7:20 Lee advises to ask about an organization’s systematic processes of planting.

7:50 Danny shares to ask questions about how things work after a church launch. 

8:40 Funding and coaching should be other areas to ask about when thinking about planting a church, according to Danny.

9:43 Lee talks about how particular he is about Converge’s coaching process. He advises potential church planters to dig a little deeper with questions about coaching.

10:28 Danny explains that Converge doesn’t have a one model, cookie cutter, specific process for coaching. The coaching model Converge uses is tailored to each planter.

11:22 Lee encourages any man who is considering planting a church, to reach out to Converge. 

0:22 Lee introduces the conversation about the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill that has grown in popularity in the past year.

1:17 Lee says the podcast has been a big conversation topic within the church and would like to process it from a listener’s side.

1:57 Lee asks Danny what stood out to him as he listened to The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill.

2:15 Danny states that Mark Driscoll, the pastor at the center of the Mars Hill story, was influential from afar in his own life. 

2:36 Danny talks about how his perspective of the story changed from the beginning to the middle. He found the story both disheartening and convicting. 

3:25 Lee asks Danny to unpack that statement.

3:26 Danny explains that it was disheartening to hear what was happening behind the scenes at Mars Hill Church. 

3:56 The convicting part of the story for Danny was seeing some tendencies of pride in himself and other leaders.

4:30 As Danny works with church planters, the very things he’s looking for are what made Mark Driscoll a successful church planter. But those characteristics can also be destructive, when left unchecked.

4:55 Danny asks Lee what he thought of the podcast.

5:09 Lee thinks it’s sobering that there’s always a dark side to church planters’ leadership styles.

5:30 Lee appreciated Christianity Today’s level of in-depth journalism when it came to hearing past employees’ side of the story.

5:54 Lee gives the reminder that as people in authority in church leadership, there’s a responsibility to steward the influence God has given.

6:56 Another reaction Lee had to the podcast were moments when he cringed over some of the behind-the-scenes behavior and wondered how much “dirty laundry” should be aired when taking a deep dive into a church’s story.

7:38 Danny finds it interesting that this podcast struck a chord not only with church leaders, but with church attenders. He has some concerns that people will have a fear of church leadership and will want to get rid of it entirely. 

8:42 Acts 29 is a ministry that is discussed at length in The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Danny talks about how the ministry has changed since Mark Driscoll left Mars Hill Church and it is not the same ministry it was in years past.

9:29 Danny concludes that after listening to the podcast, he walked away realizing everyone is messed up and it’s only through God that the church continues to grow and thrive.

9:50 For Lee, listening to the podcast brought his understanding of the dangers of celebrity for pastors to another level.

10:50 Lee encourages church planters to think about why they’re doing ministry in the first place. Remembering the importance of helping people follow Jesus can keep pride at bay.

11:17 Danny talks about the role culture and social media has in the fall of celebrity pastors.

12:07 Lee appreciates how the podcast attempted to point out the flaws of some of the wrong things church planters pursue when going into...]]>“The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill” is a podcast produced by Christianity Today and it has gone viral in popularity. What can we, as church planters and pastors, learn from listening to this story of a popular Seattle church exploding in growth, only to have it all fall apart to leave so many devastated? You don’t have to listen to that podcast first, before gleaning some wisdom from this episode of Unfiltered. It’s not uncommon for church planters to wrestle with their influence. Let’s talk about it. 

0:22 Lee introduces the conversation about the podcast The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill that has grown in popularity in the past year.

1:17 Lee says the podcast has been a big conversation topic within the church and would like to process it from a listener’s side.

1:57 Lee asks Danny what stood out to him as he listened to The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill.

2:15 Danny states that Mark Driscoll, the pastor at the center of the Mars Hill story, was influential from afar in his own life. 

2:36 Danny talks about how his perspective of the story changed from the beginning to the middle. He found the story both disheartening and convicting. 

3:25 Lee asks Danny to unpack that statement.

3:26 Danny explains that it was disheartening to hear what was happening behind the scenes at Mars Hill Church. 

3:56 The convicting part of the story for Danny was seeing some tendencies of pride in himself and other leaders.

4:30 As Danny works with church planters, the very things he’s looking for are what made Mark Driscoll a successful church planter. But those characteristics can also be destructive, when left unchecked.

4:55 Danny asks Lee what he thought of the podcast.

5:09 Lee thinks it’s sobering that there’s always a dark side to church planters’ leadership styles.

5:30 Lee appreciated Christianity Today’s level of in-depth journalism when it came to hearing past employees’ side of the story.

5:54 Lee gives the reminder that as people in authority in church leadership, there’s a responsibility to steward the influence God has given.

6:56 Another reaction Lee had to the podcast were moments when he cringed over some of the behind-the-scenes behavior and wondered how much “dirty laundry” should be aired when taking a deep dive into a church’s story.

7:38 Danny finds it interesting that this podcast struck a chord not only with church leaders, but with church attenders. He has some concerns that people will have a fear of church leadership and will want to get rid of it entirely. 

8:42 Acts 29 is a ministry that is discussed at length in The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill. Danny talks about how the ministry has changed since Mark Driscoll left Mars Hill Church and it is not the same ministry it was in years past.

9:29 Danny concludes that after listening to the podcast, he walked away realizing everyone is messed up and it’s only through God that the church continues to grow and thrive.

9:50 For Lee, listening to the podcast brought his understanding of the dangers of celebrity for pastors to another level.

10:50 Lee encourages church planters to think about why they’re doing ministry in the first place. Remembering the importance of helping people follow Jesus can keep pride at bay.

11:17 Danny talks about the role culture and social media has in the fall of celebrity pastors.

12:07 Lee appreciates how the podcast attempted to point out the flaws of some of the wrong things church planters pursue when going into ministry.

13:13 Lee asks Danny what he would say to those who haven’t listened to the podcast.

13:17 Danny encourages Unfiltered listeners to check out The Rise and Fall of Mars Hill podcast. And as they listen, they should ask God to convict them and learn from the mistakes of others.

13:41 Lee thinks a church planter understanding their influence is a journey they always need to wrestle with and think about their intentions.

0:40 Lee introduces the episode topic of what a big deal Easter Sunday can be for a church planter. Lee advises not to launch on Easter and encourages church planters who have been launched for a year or longer, to fine tune Easter details now.

1:24 Lee asks Danny what a church planter needs to be thinking about in the weeks leading up to Easter.

1:36 Danny tells a story of how the church planted was unique in that Easter attendance was lower than previous weeks.

2:36 Danny advises church planters to have realistic expectations about Easter attendance.

3:43 Don’t forget about follow-up, after Easter. Danny cautions about getting so focused on Easter, that nothing happens afterward. What will you invite newcomers to next?

4:33 Easter follow-up can easily be overlooked. Lee suggests starting a new sermon series the week after Easter.

5:24 Consider bringing in a special speaker after Easter if you have a community that would return to hear what someone has to say on a relevant topic.

5:49 Lee thinks having a special added event or attraction to keep people around the church longer on Easter Sunday is a good idea.

6:30 Church planters should be thinking about how they are going to connect with the people who walk in the doors just on Easter Sunday.

7:03 Danny wants to make sure it’s clear that church planters should be preaching on the resurrection on Easter Sunday.

7:38 Danny asks Lee his thoughts on performing baptisms on Easter Sunday.

7:52 Lee prefers having people share pre-recorded testimonies during a service over baptisms.

8:49 In agreement with Lee, Danny shares he doesn’t do any baptisms on Easter Sunday. 

9:48 Lee encourages planters to simplify the service with a shorter time.

10:38 Pastors should think through how they’re preparing their congregation to invest in others and invite them to an Easter service.

12:15 Once the resurrection is preached, Danny wants to emphasize that the gospel invitation must be given to those at an Easter service.

12:43 Danny wants to know if Lee thinks communion is a good idea on Easter Sunday.

12:51 Lee likes to do communion on Good Friday, not Easter.

13:24 Danny shares that he has had communion in an Easter service before, for various reasons.

14:18 Danny encourages church planters to really think through the pros and cons of different service elements for Easter Sunday.

14:31 Lee cautions church planters to really explain the importance of communion and not rush through the act of communion.

15:12 Lee encourages churches to plan early and really think through the details of the service before Easter week.

15:38 Lee assures listeners that Converge is praying to their Easter Sunday services.

0:18 Lee introduces episode guest, Chris Highfill.

0:32 Chris talks about his church, Grace River Church, and where he is located.

0:48 Lee asks Chris how he landed in a suburb of St. Louis.

0:57 Chris explains how he thought he was going to plant a church in Boston but ended up moving to St. Louis.

1:48 Danny affirms that sometimes it’s as simple as a church planter wanting to live in a specific area as to how they arrived at planting a church there.

2:33 Chris talks about how opportunities opened up once his family moved to St. Louis.

3:22 Lee asks Chris to talk about the progression of his church planting experience.

3:29 Chris reminisces how the church plant started as a Bible study in their home, progressed into a launch team, and how they got the word out about the new church.

4:44 An elementary school was the first portable church location for Grace River, and it had a lot of benefits as a location.

5:21 Chris shares about moving church services from the school to a local YMCA.

5:50 As the church grew, a capital campaign was launched, even though the church didn’t have its eye on a specific location to buy.

6:14 Chris talks about how he had a feeling of urgency to find a property to buy once the capital campaign was started.

6:51 Chris tells the story of how quickly things moved once he contacted a realtor and how God moved all the pieces into place.

7:30 Danny asks Chris how many people were attending church at this point of their journey and how much offering was coming in.

8:00 Just when Grace River got into their new space, the pandemic began.

8:25 Chris shares how the church continues to grow, coming out of the other side of the pandemic.

9:04 Lee asks Chris to talk about some of the challenges Grace River faced when moving from a portable church to a permanent location.

9:10 Chris reminds church planters that being portable can be a long haul.

9:39 Keeping volunteers engaged as their roles in setting up a portable church changed due to becoming a permanent location was important to Chris. He wanted all volunteers to know that even though their work may change, they are still important and needed in the church.

10:55 Chris encourages churches that are finding a permanent location to emphasize everyone still has a role in serving the church.

11:04 When property management is part of a church’s responsibility, things change, and new challenges arise. Chris talks about how buildings cost a lot of money to maintain and there are many surprises along the way.

13:06 Lee asks Chris what his vision is for the St. Louis area of Missouri.

13:25 Chris talks about how all of Missouri needs more church planters and there is a lot of room for many churches.

13:50 Grace River Church is getting ready to plant its first church, which will be in Hannibal, MO.

14:33 Danny mentions that Chris talks about Columbia, MO, needing a church planted there. 

14:55 Columbia is a university town that...]]>Chris Highfill planted Grace River Church in St. Peters, MO, seven years ago. In that time, the church has grown, relocated a couple of times, and gone from portable to permanent. He shares his journey as a church planter. He talks about the lessons he’s learned as a church planter. And he discusses the vision he has over the next few years so more people in Missouri can meet, know, and follow Jesus.

0:18 Lee introduces episode guest, Chris Highfill.

0:32 Chris talks about his church, Grace River Church, and where he is located.

0:48 Lee asks Chris how he landed in a suburb of St. Louis.

0:57 Chris explains how he thought he was going to plant a church in Boston but ended up moving to St. Louis.

1:48 Danny affirms that sometimes it’s as simple as a church planter wanting to live in a specific area as to how they arrived at planting a church there.

2:33 Chris talks about how opportunities opened up once his family moved to St. Louis.

3:22 Lee asks Chris to talk about the progression of his church planting experience.

3:29 Chris reminisces how the church plant started as a Bible study in their home, progressed into a launch team, and how they got the word out about the new church.

4:44 An elementary school was the first portable church location for Grace River, and it had a lot of benefits as a location.

5:21 Chris shares about moving church services from the school to a local YMCA.

5:50 As the church grew, a capital campaign was launched, even though the church didn’t have its eye on a specific location to buy.

6:14 Chris talks about how he had a feeling of urgency to find a property to buy once the capital campaign was started.

6:51 Chris tells the story of how quickly things moved once he contacted a realtor and how God moved all the pieces into place.

7:30 Danny asks Chris how many people were attending church at this point of their journey and how much offering was coming in.

8:00 Just when Grace River got into their new space, the pandemic began.

8:25 Chris shares how the church continues to grow, coming out of the other side of the pandemic.

9:04 Lee asks Chris to talk about some of the challenges Grace River faced when moving from a portable church to a permanent location.

9:10 Chris reminds church planters that being portable can be a long haul.

9:39 Keeping volunteers engaged as their roles in setting up a portable church changed due to becoming a permanent location was important to Chris. He wanted all volunteers to know that even though their work may change, they are still important and needed in the church.

10:55 Chris encourages churches that are finding a permanent location to emphasize everyone still has a role in serving the church.

11:04 When property management is part of a church’s responsibility, things change, and new challenges arise. Chris talks about how buildings cost a lot of money to maintain and there are many surprises along the way.

13:06 Lee asks Chris what his vision is for the St. Louis area of Missouri.

13:25 Chris talks about how all of Missouri needs more church planters and there is a lot of room for many churches.

13:50 Grace River Church is getting ready to plant its first church, which will be in Hannibal, MO.

14:33 Danny mentions that Chris talks about Columbia, MO, needing a church planted there. 

14:55 Columbia is a university town that is growing quickly. So, there’s a great opportunity to spread the gospel to a lot of people by planting a church there.

15:38 Lee teases Chris about “Missouri” versus “Misery” in pronunciation.

16:25 Lee thanks listeners for tuning in to the episode and thanks Chris for sharing his church planting experience and wisdom.

0:21 Lee introduces special guest, JJ Alderman.

0:30 JJ explains where he and his family live.

0:40 Lee asks JJ to tell his story of how he came to live in Togo.

0:50 JJ tells of his connection to Togo and why he chose that area of the world to tell people about Jesus.

0:55 Danny asks JJ what church planting looks like in Togo and if JJ himself is the lead pastor.

1:29 JJ explains that a leader originally from Togo was the pastor at the first church they planted.

1:48 Danny states that usually how people think of missionaries are as the people leading and pastoring a church, then handing over the pastor duties to someone local after a few years.

2:06 JJ speaks to the importance of national leaders being the best fit to reach the local people with the gospel, especially within tribes in the area where he lives. He is more of a coach to national leaders.

2:40 Lee recalls visiting the Aldermans in Togo and seeing the incredible things happening there for the advancement of God’s kingdom.

3:00 Lee asks JJ to speak to how spiritual warfare has influenced church planting and how JJ coaches planters.

3:14 JJ explains how the place where he lives, most people believe things happen due to spiritual reasons, rather than physical reasons. The West has a hard time understanding that cultural difference.

3:46 JJ confirms that spiritual warfare is real, and it transcends cultures. He sees the same trends in church planting in the United States when it comes to Satan trying to push back the work God is doing.

4:25 Lee asks JJ what the biggest challenges to church planting are in Togo right now.

4:34 According to JJ, most people who come to Christ in Togo do so in a church service. Many have never heard the gospel message before. JJ and his team try to equip new believers right from the start how to share the gospel with others.

5:33 JJ talks about the importance of equipping the church to look forward with a vision of planting more churches right from the start and how that’s done.

6:16 Danny asks if the stakes are high within their community for those individuals who say yes to Jesus.

6:35 JJ tells a story about six young girls who are mentored by a Converge global worker and how the group multiplied by bringing friends to Christ. One of those girls stood up to a teacher who was mocking Jesus, the church, and believers.

7:33 Lee asks how a US church planter can build a church with a global perspective of missions.

8:18 JJ suggests we must continue to learn because the world changes so quickly. 

8:51 Lee asks JJ what kind of person he’s looking for to join the efforts in Togo as a global worker.

9:37 JJ speaks to some of the characteristics they’re looking for in people who work well on their team.

10:00 JJ also explains that serving in missions can be just a small portion of their life when a worker looks at the big picture of their entire life.

10:51 Lee asks JJ where he sees the ministry in Togo and Benin going in the next five years.

11:03 JJ speaks to the rapid multiplication of churches he’s been experiencing in the last couple of years and how they hope to have 100...]]>The country of Togo, Africa, is known as the birthplace of voodoo and a place marked by slave trade. JJ Alderman, his wife, Melissa, and their three daughters live in Togo as Converge global workers, planting churches. JJ talks about what it looks like to plant churches in another country, and how God is moving in Togo.

0:21 Lee introduces special guest, JJ Alderman.

0:30 JJ explains where he and his family live.

0:40 Lee asks JJ to tell his story of how he came to live in Togo.

0:50 JJ tells of his connection to Togo and why he chose that area of the world to tell people about Jesus.

0:55 Danny asks JJ what church planting looks like in Togo and if JJ himself is the lead pastor.

1:29 JJ explains that a leader originally from Togo was the pastor at the first church they planted.

1:48 Danny states that usually how people think of missionaries are as the people leading and pastoring a church, then handing over the pastor duties to someone local after a few years.

2:06 JJ speaks to the importance of national leaders being the best fit to reach the local people with the gospel, especially within tribes in the area where he lives. He is more of a coach to national leaders.

2:40 Lee recalls visiting the Aldermans in Togo and seeing the incredible things happening there for the advancement of God’s kingdom.

3:00 Lee asks JJ to speak to how spiritual warfare has influenced church planting and how JJ coaches planters.

3:14 JJ explains how the place where he lives, most people believe things happen due to spiritual reasons, rather than physical reasons. The West has a hard time understanding that cultural difference.

3:46 JJ confirms that spiritual warfare is real, and it transcends cultures. He sees the same trends in church planting in the United States when it comes to Satan trying to push back the work God is doing.

4:25 Lee asks JJ what the biggest challenges to church planting are in Togo right now.

4:34 According to JJ, most people who come to Christ in Togo do so in a church service. Many have never heard the gospel message before. JJ and his team try to equip new believers right from the start how to share the gospel with others.

5:33 JJ talks about the importance of equipping the church to look forward with a vision of planting more churches right from the start and how that’s done.

6:16 Danny asks if the stakes are high within their community for those individuals who say yes to Jesus.

6:35 JJ tells a story about six young girls who are mentored by a Converge global worker and how the group multiplied by bringing friends to Christ. One of those girls stood up to a teacher who was mocking Jesus, the church, and believers.

7:33 Lee asks how a US church planter can build a church with a global perspective of missions.

8:18 JJ suggests we must continue to learn because the world changes so quickly. 

8:51 Lee asks JJ what kind of person he’s looking for to join the efforts in Togo as a global worker.

9:37 JJ speaks to some of the characteristics they’re looking for in people who work well on their team.

10:00 JJ also explains that serving in missions can be just a small portion of their life when a worker looks at the big picture of their entire life.

10:51 Lee asks JJ where he sees the ministry in Togo and Benin going in the next five years.

11:03 JJ speaks to the rapid multiplication of churches he’s been experiencing in the last couple of years and how they hope to have 100 total churches planted in the next three years.

11:39 Lee asks JJ how he’s scaling and building a system for expanding ministry.

12:00 Investing time in leaders is how Togo is seeing church planting growth.

12:38 JJ shares a story of a young man who often shares his faith and how he’s part of a chain of males who are supporting one another and sharing the gospel with others.

13:39 Lee asks JJ to give a little more detail on the different components of his ministry.

14:04 JJ talks about each of the five different projects and areas of service within the ministry in Togo: two projects of church planting, a camp called Togo Palms, a deaf ministry, and vocational training.

16:54 Lee thanks JJ for the work he’s doing in Togo, Africa.

0:24 Lee introduces special guest, Paul Turner.

0:44 Paul introduces himself and explains his role at Orchard NEO.

1:19 Danny asks Paul to clear up any confusion of Orchard NEO being connected to another church planting organization. 

1:30 Paul explains that Orchard NEO is a regional church planting organization, funded by Christ Community Chapel. He also shares how they got their name.

2:04 Lee asks Paul what his passion is for church planters, through his role as Coaching Director.

2:14 Paul explains that he, himself, once planted a church. But the church didn’t last long, so after that, he began to think about what he wished he had when he was attempting to plant a church.

3:13 Danny asks Paul to talk about the connection between coaching and having resources, when planting a church.

3:54 Paul shares that having a ministry fully funded doesn’t mean a whole lot if the quality of the ministry suffers. Resources are necessary, but so is quality ministry.

4:53 Lee asks Paul what kind of candidates they are looking for in Northeast Ohio, to be successful church planters.

5:25 Paul explains the population landscape of the area, including three major cities.

5:56 Paul talks about what the religious backdrop of the area is, and how it affects the ability to plant churches.

7:15 Paul shares what Orchard NEO looks for in the men that should be planting churches in Northeast Ohio.

8:10 Expanding on what kind of church planters he’s looking for, Paul uses an analogy for those who feel the call to plant should be like a batter swinging for the fence.

8:44 Lee likes the imagery Paul uses when talking about church planting.

9:04 Lee asks Paul to speak about his experience coaching church planters who feel called to an urban setting.

9:33 Paul explains what planting in an urban setting can be like, when dealing with people’s needs due to not just poverty, but also trust issues. In his experience, once people are convinced someone is there to give, they will finally trust. But that can be a long process. It can take years to gain trust in an urban community.

11:27 Paul shares that those planting in an urban area need financial support from people who understand how long the church planting process could be. Growth will be slow, but loyalty happens.

12:23 Danny asks if someone from another area coming to Northeast Ohio to plant a church can be successful.

12:54 Paul welcomes people who aren’t native to the area, because they can see the community with fresh eyes. It can be a disadvantage to learn the culture and area, but it’s not impossible. Loving local people on their terms is more important than where the planter comes from.

14:03 Lee asks Paul what he would say to a church planter who is on the fence about attending an assessment center.

14:25 Paul answers that he thinks having someone affirm your strengths is important to sort out a calling.

15:33 Paul praises Converge’s church planting assessment process and the focus on the mission of finding church planters who have been called by God to do so.

16:17 Lee thanks Paul for sharing his story and passion for Northeast Ohio.

0:22 Lee shares that this episode’s topic came from a listener’s question and encourages all listeners to email their questions to Converge. 

0:54 Lee introduces the episode subject, which is what a church planter should focus on when they are around three-months past their launch service.

1:30 Danny advises that church planters should be focusing on meeting one-on-one with new people. It’s important to balance pastoral duties with taking the time to get to know new people.

2:28 Lee stresses a church planter’s ability to relate to others and bring them in is an important factor at the beginning of the life of a church.

2:57 Budgeting you time is an important priority, according to Lee.

3:14 Another area to focus on three-months post launch is getting people connected within the new church.

4:02 Danny adds that the people that first come to a new church probably do so because they have a connection with the church planter.

4:45 Connecting new people to other people within the church is beneficial, and it’s usually done through volunteering in the church. Danny advises to make space for new people to serve or create new relationships.

5:54 Danny maps out the areas a church planter should be spending their focus, three months after launch: meeting new people, maintaining connections, and finding leaders.

6:43 Lee agrees that finding people and plugging them into leadership positions is critical to church impact but should be nurtured in a slow and natural way.

7:50 Danny emphasizes that three months after a church’s grand opening isn’t the time for church planters to take a step back.

8:19 A grand opening isn’t a one-time service event. It continues for a few months.

9:07 A few months in might be a good time to begin gathering those who are first-time visitors to share what your church is about.

9:46 Lee shares the importance of going beyond just meeting new people and having a next step for them to follow to get them connected.

10:12 Danny shares some ideas of how to gather new people together with the church planter.

11:30 Lee reminds listeners to not forget about the importance of still investing time with the launch team.

11:50 Having fun is still important three months into a new church, according to Lee.

12:23 Lee reminds listeners to email in any questions they may have regarding church planting.

0:18 Lee introduces the conversation topic, which is coaching church planters.

0:58 Danny adds that Converge puts a strong emphasis on coaching church planters past just their first couple of years of planting.

1:46 Lee explains how Converge has taken coaching to a higher level within the mission of planting churches.

2:21 Lee asks Danny what he has seen with church planters that have coaches versus those who don’t.

2:29 Danny explains RevCoach, an online coaching system that helps both the coach and the coachee throughout their process together. 

3:00 Danny talks about the difference between a mentor and a coach.

3:31 Danny speaks to the fact that the coaches and church planters who do coaching correctly have great success.

4:38 Lee asks Danny what coaching has meant to him as a planter and pastor.

4:43 Danny says having a coach asking him lots of questions helped him clarify issues and problems.

6:00 Danny asks Lee to describe some successful and less-than-successful coaching he has received throughout his life and ministry.

6:13 Lee is a big believer in always having a coach and the importance those relationships have played in his life.

7:01 Lee emphasizes that a coach should bring out the best in a coachee, not trying to get them to do things the way that has worked for themselves. Coaching should be helping someone become all they can be in God; not molding someone in a forceful way.

7:52 Like in athletics, the “stars” don’t become the best coaches. Danny says coaching church planters is similar. 

9:08 Danny shares that he’s doing less coaching, because he tends to want to share his personal experiences and that’s not always what church planters need.

9:41 Danny states his passion for good coaching and creating it within Converge.

10:07 Lee asks Danny how a church planter should find a coach if they are beginning to realize how coaching could help them. How do you find the right coach and how do you ask?

10:30 Danny advises that if a church planter finds someone they may want as a coach, to ask around to get some opinions on their coaching.

11:30 Danny suggests doing a trial run for a few months with a coach.

11:51 Lee advises for someone to be persistent when looking for a coach, and it may cost money.

12:25 Lee shares that if someone asks him to be their coach, he wants specifics of what they’re looking for.

13:04 Lee feels a good coach will recognize their own personal strengths and weaknesses and the importance of knowing when they may not be the best coach in a certain area.

13:18 Lee encourages listeners to find a coach if they feel they need one.

0:19 Danny introduces the episode’s topic, which is including church multiplication into the church’s budget.

0:53 Danny asks Lee how he practically budgeted for church multiplication.

1:09 Lee admits intentionally budgeting for multiplication is difficult. With one church he planted, they started right away with 2% of the budget going to multiplication. The second time he planted, he increased the percentage.

2:22 Danny asks Lee the specifics of how the budgeted money was tracked.

3:10 Lee explains what budgeting that amount looked like and what his next budgeting goal is for a multiplication initiative.

3:58 Danny inquires how Lee’s church determines who qualifies for financial help in ministry.

4:29 Lee shares what they do if someone outside their church is asking for church planting financial help versus someone from within the church doing the work of multiplication.

5:13 Lee shares that his church launched another congregation in October.

5:52 Danny asks Lee if he lets the congregation know part of the budget goes towards multiplication.

6:17 Lee addresses how he speaks about multiplication, whether it’s through meetings, one-on-one conversations, or commissionings.

7:46 Danny wonders if the people in Lee’s church can give directly to the multiplication fund or if it’s all 100% through general giving. 

8:15 Danny asks Lee to give church planters advice when it comes to budgeting for multiplication.

8:41 Lee compares waiting to start a multiplication budget to waiting to start a family until you can afford it. If you wait until you can afford it, it’s never going to happen.

9:07 Lee speaks to the importance of sharing a vision of multiplication with key leaders and staff.

9:35 Danny shares that it can be easy for a church planter to lose the vision of multiplication as they get into the day-to-day of leading a church.

10:10 Lee emphasizes that pastors need to be intentional in budgeting for this important vision.

11:05 Danny says it seems counterintuitive that churches that give away money and resources grow at a faster rate than those who do not.

11:17 Lee encourages church planters and pastors to be intentional to make a difference with more healthy churches.

0:29 Lee introduces the subject of evaluation.

0:37 Danny mentions that evaluating different areas from the very start can be beneficial to church planters.

1:04 Danny talks about creating a culture of evaluation and the reason it’s important.

2:03 Lee asks Danny how he evaluated weekend services as a church planter.

2:18 Danny recalls having scripted questions to keep service evaluations on track and to look at both the positive and negative sides of how a church service went.

4:12 Lee recalls evaluating Sunday services on Mondays as a church planter. He shares the five questions they would address as a staff every week. Lee also shares what he asked to get honest feedback from staff on his sermon.

5:59 Danny talks about sermon evaluation and gives advice on how to do that.

7:02 Lee speaks to the importance of creating a culture of evaluation right at the beginning of a church plant.

7:38 Danny shares his thoughts on evaluating events the church holds.

8:40 Lee asks Danny how he handled staff evaluations when it came to job performance.

9:05 Admittedly, Danny wasn’t super-consistent when it came to doing staff evaluations at regular time intervals. 

10:39 Danny warns that having an inconsistent staff evaluation calendar might arouse suspicion from staff.

11:08 Lee shares how he had staff fill out less-formal form once a month to check in and report how they were doing emotionally, spiritually, and physically. 

12:30 Lee talks about what yearly staff evaluations looked like.

13:30 Lee reiterates how helpful the less-formal monthly questionnaire helped with staff and leadership evaluation.

13:43 Danny mentions a software platform that is helpful with evaluations and let’s listeners know how they can acquire it for free.

14:08 Lee urges pastor to continue evaluate all aspects of their ministry.

0:20 Lee Stephenson introduces the episode topic that is relevant to church planters, lead pastors, and worship pastors.

0:40 Lee asks Danny Parmelee when he officially had a worship pastor when he was a church planter.

0:57 Danny discusses who his first worship leader was at his church plant and what their relationship looked like since they were college friends first.

2:48 Lee asks how communication with a worship leader worked when he wasn’t a full-time staff and was volunteering his time while working another job.

3:05 Danny speaks to the challenge of not only working with someone who was volunteering their time, but also the challenge of not having any sort of church office to meet together.

4:04 Having simple services at the beginning helped keep the worship aspect simple, according to Danny. But as his church grew, specific meetings to discuss worship elements of the services were needed.

4:45 Lee asks Danny how much freedom he gave to the worship leader when it came to service development.

5:06 Danny feels he gave his worship leader freedom to choose how the worship portion of a service would look. 

5:41 Danny remembers for special services, such as Easter or Good Friday, he would ask his worship leader, Michael, to do something special and Michael would blow it out of the water.

6:05 Danny trusted his worship leader to make good song choices but would remind him at times to use songs that were familiar worship songs on the radio.

6:38 Danny knows worship leaders like to do something new and unique to avoid repetition, but also knows the importance of using familiar songs that people can sing along to during services.

7:25 Danny asks Lee about his experience in working with worship pastors and his experience with that relationship.

7:33 Lee remembers meeting with his worship leader about once a month when they were a new church plant. And having limited time during a short service also meant there was no time to be very innovative.

8:19 Lee speaks to the importance of a pastor having a good relationship with a staff worship pastor. If there isn’t unity between those two main people, it can be seen up on the stage.

8:50 Every Tuesday afternoon, Lee would meet with the worship pastor to not only review upcoming services, but to pray together and to relationally get on the same page.

9:32 Currently Lee communicates mostly through email with his current worship pastor, Joel, who is more behind the scenes.

9:50 With the launch of another congregation, Lee knows that the demands of services are going to be a little different and the service structure is more Joel’s responsibility.

10:35 Lee varies how his church participates in communion, so he and Joel plan for that together.

11:02 Danny reiterates the importance of a pastor and worship leaders talking about service transitions.

11:30 Danny agrees with Lee that the more services a church adds, the more complex the planning of the worship aspect and flow of service becomes. 

12:04 Lee stresses the importance of planning to create an above average service and the priority a lead pastor should place on collaborating effectively with the worship pastor.

13:16 Danny adds that a worship leader should have a pastoral...]]>How a lead pastor and the worship pastor work together has an effect on Sunday services. What should the relationship between these two roles look like? How do you work together to ensure attendees are having a meaningful Sunday worship experience? 

0:20 Lee Stephenson introduces the episode topic that is relevant to church planters, lead pastors, and worship pastors.

0:40 Lee asks Danny Parmelee when he officially had a worship pastor when he was a church planter.

0:57 Danny discusses who his first worship leader was at his church plant and what their relationship looked like since they were college friends first.

2:48 Lee asks how communication with a worship leader worked when he wasn’t a full-time staff and was volunteering his time while working another job.

3:05 Danny speaks to the challenge of not only working with someone who was volunteering their time, but also the challenge of not having any sort of church office to meet together.

4:04 Having simple services at the beginning helped keep the worship aspect simple, according to Danny. But as his church grew, specific meetings to discuss worship elements of the services were needed.

4:45 Lee asks Danny how much freedom he gave to the worship leader when it came to service development.

5:06 Danny feels he gave his worship leader freedom to choose how the worship portion of a service would look. 

5:41 Danny remembers for special services, such as Easter or Good Friday, he would ask his worship leader, Michael, to do something special and Michael would blow it out of the water.

6:05 Danny trusted his worship leader to make good song choices but would remind him at times to use songs that were familiar worship songs on the radio.

6:38 Danny knows worship leaders like to do something new and unique to avoid repetition, but also knows the importance of using familiar songs that people can sing along to during services.

7:25 Danny asks Lee about his experience in working with worship pastors and his experience with that relationship.

7:33 Lee remembers meeting with his worship leader about once a month when they were a new church plant. And having limited time during a short service also meant there was no time to be very innovative.

8:19 Lee speaks to the importance of a pastor having a good relationship with a staff worship pastor. If there isn’t unity between those two main people, it can be seen up on the stage.

8:50 Every Tuesday afternoon, Lee would meet with the worship pastor to not only review upcoming services, but to pray together and to relationally get on the same page.

9:32 Currently Lee communicates mostly through email with his current worship pastor, Joel, who is more behind the scenes.

9:50 With the launch of another congregation, Lee knows that the demands of services are going to be a little different and the service structure is more Joel’s responsibility.

10:35 Lee varies how his church participates in communion, so he and Joel plan for that together.

11:02 Danny reiterates the importance of a pastor and worship leaders talking about service transitions.

11:30 Danny agrees with Lee that the more services a church adds, the more complex the planning of the worship aspect and flow of service becomes. 

12:04 Lee stresses the importance of planning to create an above average service and the priority a lead pastor should place on collaborating effectively with the worship pastor.

13:16 Danny adds that a worship leader should have a pastoral heart who develop other leaders within the worship team.

14:13 Lee advises that the only way to know if a worship leader has a heart of a worshipper themselves is to spend time with them.

14:23 Lee thanks listeners for tuning in to the topic on the lead pastor and worship pastor’s relationship.

0:19 Lee introduces the topic of the episode – thinking through your preaching calendar. He asks Danny what his rhythm is when it comes to planning the timing of sermon series.

0:50 Danny shares how he preached expository through books of the Bible when he first planted his church. 

2:56 As time went by, Danny’s preaching schedule fell into a rhythm that he was able to maintain as his church grew. His church has the rhythm of following the schedule of a school year, September through June.

3:39 Lee confirms that Danny would plan the kick-off of a new upcoming sermon series in the summertime, based on the school calendar.

3:45 Danny talks about how his sermons were tied to small group teaching and that printed materials had to be created for that.

4:37 Lee asks Danny if he would literally take an entire school year to preach through one book of the Bible.

4:46 Danny confirms that yes, that was the case and explains how the sermon schedule would work when shorter books of the Bible were preached.

5:36 Danny asks Lee about how he does his sermon planning and navigates a preaching calendar.

5:47 One year out is how Lee likes to plan. He also mentions that he takes a week in the summer to plan out his preaching calendar. And he reiterates that each community has its own rhythm.

7:20 Danny asks Lee to expand on what his process is when he takes a week to plan out upcoming sermon series.

7:59 Lee gives details on how he collaborates with his creative team.

9:30 Lee explains how he codes sermons at different levels – A, B, and C, what those levels mean, and the reason he does it.

10:48 Danny asks Lee if he is flexible in his planned preaching calendar, or if it’s more of a rigid process.

11:24 Lee explains how he adds in margin to the sermon series schedule and how baptism Sundays play into the schedule’s flexibility.

12:41 Danny asks Lee for his thoughts on using other church’s resources when it comes to replicating their sermon series.

13:17 Using other church’s resources occasionally may be a good idea for church planters, according to Lee. But he advises pastors to put their own spin on it for the community they serves. Exact replication may not translate great from one area of the country to another.

15:20 Lee stresses the importance on thinking through sermon planning and creating the preaching calendar, advising to have fun, leave margin, and enjoy the process.

15:59 Danny agrees that using another church’s sermon resources should be done in moderation.

16:21 Lee thanks listeners for tuning into the podcast episode.

0:22 Lee introduces the topic of discussion: unique changes that take place as a leader.

0:48 Danny says he will share his experiences of learning from his mistakes.

1:16 Danny advises for new church planters to always say yes, and shares his reason for that strategy.

2:15 Danny shares when the “always say yes” strategy should shift to begin saying no.

2:52 Empowerment plays a role in leadership. Danny speaks about how much control church planters should have for every decision in the beginning.

5:01 Danny shares a memory of what his church planting coach said that allowed Danny to micromanage to protect the vision of his church plant.

6:08 Lee talks about guarding himself from becoming more cynical in his pastoral leadership over time.

6:42 Danny asks for clarification on the use of the word cynical.

6:49 Lee clarifies how cynicism can happen when a church planter wants total control for a long time.

7:14 This question is hard for Danny to answer, so he asks Lee about his experience with cynicism in planting multiple churches.

7:53 Danny asks Lee if planting a second time helped avoid the mistakes he may have run into when planting the first time.

8:32 Lee speaks to the difference of planting two churches at two different times in his life.

9:32 Lee talks about how different it was to plant a church the second time when he was ten years older than the first time. Maturity, energy, responsibilities, and wisdom all played a role the second time around.

10:59 Danny wonders is being new to church planting and having some naivety fuels ingenuity.

12:06 As a coach, Danny talks about the fine line of having the experience of planting a church. He wants to give lots of advice, but he also knows the new church planters he coaches need to be allowed to do things their own way to push the envelope.

13:03 Lee speaks to church planting coaches and advised them to let new church planters be innovative.

14:25 Lee shares when he began to make time in his schedule for creativity.

14:50 Danny talks about the fear of failure and how that fear can grow with success.

16:04 Danny wonders if current church planters just might be trying the very thing that will reshape what church looks like for the next generation.

16:49 Lee states his excitement to see how the current creativity might affect the church long term. 

Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee discuss the pros and cons of church planters hiring remote people for certain tasks and projects. What might it look like to hire someone who never attends your church?

0:21 Lee asks Danny the rhetorical question, “Is it okay to hire someone who may life in a different city?”

1:15 Danny shares about a book that introduced him to the idea of hiring freelancers for certain aspects of church planting tasks and the advantages of hiring overseas freelancers.

3:59 Fair wages are important when hiring overseas freelancers. Danny talks about the website he has had success with when it comes to hiring freelance workers.

6:48 Lee asks Danny if there are any disadvantages when hiring freelancers to do marketing work for a church.

7:17 Danny speaks to the fact that a freelancer who doesn’t know you may not get it right the first time. Freelancing works well when the contracted person knows the brand and voice of the church planter’s church. 

8:21 Danny then recollects a time when working with a freelancer did not work at all.

9:15 Lee talks about challenges one may have when working with a person from another country. And the care that must be taken when using a remote bookkeeper.

10:15 There are certain admin tasks that are good for contracting out to a freelancer. Danny then talks about the importance of admin assistants really knowing the church planter because they tend to become the “face” of the office tasks when interacting with others. 

12:07 Danny also talks about his current experience with having a remote admin working with him.

12:37 Lee agrees with the importance of having an assistant that really knows the church planter.

13:02 Lee asks Danny about the challenges of having a remote team.

13:41 Knowing yourself really well as a church planter and as a leader is very important when it comes to remote work, according to Danny.

14:55 Danny talks about his “management by objective” style.

15:59 Lee asks Danny how his staff meetings worked with a remote staff.

16:10 Danny talks about the slow growth the first couple of years of his church plant.

17:10 Lee touches on the culture a church planter may be trying to develop when dealing with remote positions.

17:52 Danny wonders if and when the church will catch up with culture’s new view on set office hours within an organization.

18:32 Lee echos Danny that he will be watching to see if the church adapts to new office hour trends.

0:23 Lee introduces podcast guest, Steve.

0:40 Steve discusses where he’s from and where he serves as a pastor.

1:01 Steve shares a “fun fact” about North Dakota.

1:12 Lee asks Steve his reason for planting a church in the Fargo area.

1:25 A lot of people in the Fargo area know about Jesus, but have no relationship with him, according to Steve. Drinking is also a big problem in the area, so Steve ministers to bring hope to people.

2:11 Danny asks if life in the city of Fargo is really what it’s like as depicted in the movie “Fargo.”

2:25 Steve quickly speaks about what the movie did and didn’t get correct about the Fargo area and how residents have embraced the press from the movie, even if it’s not accurate.

3:07 Steve informs Lee and Danny about the landscape and climate of North Dakota.

3:48 Lee asks Steve about starting Ignite Church in a movie theater and what it’s like starting a portable church.

4:10 Steve discusses how schools weren’t an option for use as a church plant, and how God answered his prayers by providing a movie theater to rent at a great price.

5:10 Steve talks about the challenges of using a movie theater for church services.

5:46 On the flip side, Steve talks about the benefits of having church in a movie theater.

6:08 Frigid winter temps are a challenge when planting a portable church in North Dakota.

7:11 Danny asks about Ignite Church’s storage situation for moving equipment back and forth.

7:20 Steve points out that every church planter has their own unique challenges, no matter the location.

7:59 Lee asks about Converge’s Heartland district.

8:14 Steve lays out how the Heartland district looks, geographically.

8:38 Lee wants to know what characteristics Steve is looking for in people who desire to plant a church in Converge Heartland.

8:57 Danny asks Steve to also talk about how someone from outside Converge Heartland can successfully plant within the district.

9:17 Steve speaks to the grit and resolve those who plant in Converge Heartland must have, due to slow growth, sparse population, and being viewed as an “outsider.”

11:34 Steve explains the independence residents in the Heartland district have and how it affects not only their views of outsiders, but also their approach to Jesus.

12:03 Lee is curious how Steve coaches church planters who want to come to the Heartland.

12:41 The importance of a church planter finding a local connection to a “person of peace,” in order to be successful.

14:04 Lee asks for the population of North Dakota and how it’s dispersed among Fargo.

14:18 Less than three quarters of a million people live in North Dakota.

15:03 One third of North Dakota’s population is in one city.

15:37 Lee asks what it’s like for church planters to plant in a very rural, unpopulated area. Should these church planters be bi-vocational?

15:58 Having a skill that is transferable to a trade is helpful for rural church planters.

16:23 Another fun fact about the size of Fargo!

16:58 Danny talks about how having a trade as a church planter can help with credibility and relationship...]]>Lee Stephenson and Danny Parmelee talk with the Director of Church Planting for Converge Heartland, Steve Krier, to discuss the challenges of planting in rural areas and what life is like in the district.

0:23 Lee introduces podcast guest, Steve.

0:40 Steve discusses where he’s from and where he serves as a pastor.

1:01 Steve shares a “fun fact” about North Dakota.

1:12 Lee asks Steve his reason for planting a church in the Fargo area.

1:25 A lot of people in the Fargo area know about Jesus, but have no relationship with him, according to Steve. Drinking is also a big problem in the area, so Steve ministers to bring hope to people.

2:11 Danny asks if life in the city of Fargo is really what it’s like as depicted in the movie “Fargo.”

2:25 Steve quickly speaks about what the movie did and didn’t get correct about the Fargo area and how residents have embraced the press from the movie, even if it’s not accurate.

3:07 Steve informs Lee and Danny about the landscape and climate of North Dakota.

3:48 Lee asks Steve about starting Ignite Church in a movie theater and what it’s like starting a portable church.

4:10 Steve discusses how schools weren’t an option for use as a church plant, and how God answered his prayers by providing a movie theater to rent at a great price.

5:10 Steve talks about the challenges of using a movie theater for church services.

5:46 On the flip side, Steve talks about the benefits of having church in a movie theater.

6:08 Frigid winter temps are a challenge when planting a portable church in North Dakota.

7:11 Danny asks about Ignite Church’s storage situation for moving equipment back and forth.

7:20 Steve points out that every church planter has their own unique challenges, no matter the location.

7:59 Lee asks about Converge’s Heartland district.

8:14 Steve lays out how the Heartland district looks, geographically.

8:38 Lee wants to know what characteristics Steve is looking for in people who desire to plant a church in Converge Heartland.

8:57 Danny asks Steve to also talk about how someone from outside Converge Heartland can successfully plant within the district.

9:17 Steve speaks to the grit and resolve those who plant in Converge Heartland must have, due to slow growth, sparse population, and being viewed as an “outsider.”

11:34 Steve explains the independence residents in the Heartland district have and how it affects not only their views of outsiders, but also their approach to Jesus.

12:03 Lee is curious how Steve coaches church planters who want to come to the Heartland.

12:41 The importance of a church planter finding a local connection to a “person of peace,” in order to be successful.

14:04 Lee asks for the population of North Dakota and how it’s dispersed among Fargo.

14:18 Less than three quarters of a million people live in North Dakota.

15:03 One third of North Dakota’s population is in one city.

15:37 Lee asks what it’s like for church planters to plant in a very rural, unpopulated area. Should these church planters be bi-vocational?

15:58 Having a skill that is transferable to a trade is helpful for rural church planters.

16:23 Another fun fact about the size of Fargo!

16:58 Danny talks about how having a trade as a church planter can help with credibility and relationship building.

17:18 Becoming involved in a community is one of the best things a rural church planter can do.

18:16 Danny mentions the tension that can be felt with having a permanent church vs. a nontraditional meeting space.

18:47 Having a permanent place, now that Ignite Church has purchased the building they’ve been using for years, has brought credibility.

18:57 Steve talks about the importance of showing communities the church is going to stick around and has a stake in the community.

19:46 Lee asks Steve how listeners can pray for the Heartland area.

20:04 The people who live within Converge Heartland need hope because of long winters, drugs, and alcoholism.

21:00 Steve puts out the call to those who feel they might want to help with ministry in the Heartland, as resources and people are needed to reach people for Christ.

21:24 Steve shares his contact information.

21:48 Lee thanks Steve for being a podcast guest.

0:22 This topic is an extension of a previous Unfiltered podcast titled “30 days to launch.” 

0:59 Danny discusses the importance of a church planter being in a healthy frame of mind, getting enough sleep and eating well in the stressful days leading up to launch.

2:19 Lee asks Danny to walk us through what his grand opening day was like, with details.

2:46 Danny talks about launching on a Saturday night and what it looked like to be renting space from an existing church.

3:54 Danny shares how his excitement of launch day caused him to do some unnecessary tasks.

4:12 A warning from Danny to church planters to make the grand opening fun and exciting for their launch team and advice on how to handle it when something goes wrong.

6:01 Danny asks Lee to share about launching two different churches and the difference between their grand openings.

6:13 Launching a church in a movie theater and the fun things Lee incorporated into that grand opening.

6:55 Lee discusses the success of having all volunteers wearing matching t-shirts.

7:25 How helpful a visual can be for visitors to see that there’s a group of people committed to the church can be a powerful thing.

8:06 Lee’s last minute call to have two services for his church’s grand opening.

8:49 Lee advocates that it’s okay to finish a grand opening service early.

9:24 Invite people to join the journey of a growing a new church together.

9:39 Lee reveals a great giveaway his church did that helped with marketing.

10:30 The one thing that Lee’s church did that was unnecessary for the grand opening.

10:46 Lee shares what he did differently and what he did again for his second church planting launch.

11:56 Danny stresses the importance of capturing the grand opening through video and photos.

12:42 The importance of having something to create a “pause” after the service, to keep attendees around instead of leaving immediately.

12:51 The essential training needed for the launch team to engage with attendees after the service.

13:28 Preparing your volunteers and leaders how to handle and respond to sticky situations when things go wrong.

14:28 Lee reminisces about what they did when the air conditioning went out in Orlando in September.

15:02 A reminder from Lee that trouble will occur when you’re trying to bring Jesus to a dark world.

15:25 What happened to all those fans?

15:28 The rental building has a reoccurring problem!

15:55 Lee hopes there have been some helpful tips discussed for church planters that are in preparation mode for their grand opening.

0:22 Lee Stephenson introduces the episode topic and asks Danny Parmelee about his experience of the month before launching a church he planted.

0:49 Danny talks about the importance of inviting anyone and everyone to a launch service.

2:25 Danny asks Lee about his experience in the last few days before a launch, and if there were any differences between both churches Lee launched.

2:36 Invite everyone you can to your launch service. You may be surprised who shows up.

3:36 Lee remembers the worry that no one would come to the grand opening, despite all the inviting he did.

4:19 The importance of being out front, greeting people before the service of a launch.

4:59 Lee speaks of the importance of the first impression visitors receive.

6:49 Observing volunteers who serve so potential problems aren’t missed.

7:59 Lee shares one of his opinions on sermon prep that pastors may disagree with.

8:48 The challenge some pastors may face when it comes to interacting with attendees as the congregation size grows.

9:55 Danny discusses church planters preparing their own expectations leading up to the launch, as well as being intentional in enjoying the home stretch of pre-launch.

11:09 Lee advises to plan something fun for a launch team before the grand opening.

11:36 The importance of full service run throughs in the last month of pre-launch.

12:45 An eye-opening exercise to do with the launch team when it comes to expectations of attendance numbers for launch day.

15:21 Danny humorously recalls an exercise for attendance number expectations for a campus launch.

16:04 Church planters should be intentional to make the last month before launch about the team coming together. 

16:40 Advice from Danny on what a church planter should say on launch day.

17:06 What should vision casting for new church attendees look like?

17:40 The importance of giving attenders the ability to connect with pastors as a person.

0:23 Lee Stepheson introduces the episode topic and asks Danny Parmelee if he used strategic planning during his church planting time. 

1:17 Danny shares how through this process, he learned that planning was another passion of his. 

2:08 Lee asks Danny what the most valuable part about strategic planning is through a formalized process? 

2:50 Danny says going through a formalized process helps the church planter not just think of ideas, but it is "having that clarity of saying, OK, here's where we're at, here's where we want to go, how are we going to do it?"

4:06  Lee talks about his first experience with the StratOp process and how he has been certified to help other churches.

6:34 There are two strategic planning processes Lee shares he is familiar with: the StratOp and the Auxano process. He suggests Auxano for newer churches. 

8:32 When do you do strategic planning when planting a church? 

9:48 Lee thinks since everything is so young in the prelaunch phase of a church, it's best to wait at least a year or two before getting a professional consultant to do any strategic planning with your team. 

11:33 Danny Parmelee confesses that when he was a part of the church planting process, he naively tried to do the planning independently. He shares the importance of buy-in from the people meant to be a part of that phase. 

14:39 Lee suggests you start planning for seven years and work your way back. It is going to take baby steps. 

16:31 Danny asks Lee how committed a pastor and team should be to sticking with the plan. 

17:37  Lee encourages the listeners to stick to the plan as best as possible and suggests that a good consultant will work alongside someone for an entire year. 

0:17 Lee Stephenson introduces the episode topic and asks Danny Parmelee to share his experiences.

1:33 Danny admits that this was a weekly battle for him as a church planter and talks about his key indicator.

2:56 Lee says not celebrating the success of other pastors and churches in your community is a sign you’re starting a downward spiral.

3:18 Lee says he was intentional about creating friendships and relationships with other pastors in the community.

4:10 If you are looking at multisiting or church planting and people don’t want to go, maybe they’ve lost sight of the mission Jesus has called them to be a part of.

5:15 If you’re not willing to send people, it may mean that you love your organization more than the idea of sending and missions.

6:00 Danny talks about the discipline it takes to raise up and send out your best leaders.

7:13 Lee says that most churches in America have an incomplete discipleship process because they don’t include sending.

7:57 Lee encourages pastors to be intentional. "You want people to fall in love with your church. Just be careful not to get it out of balance. It’s a tension to be managed."

8:25 Danny thinks planters sometimes, especially early on, begin to cast too much organizational vision. If we can cast more personal vision — this is what it looks like when you love Jesus and walk with him — we know that the result will be those other things.

0:40 Lee Stephenson introduces the topic and asks Danny Parmelee when he thinks a church planter is ready to sign a long-term lease or buy property.

1:47 Danny says church planters should plan to get a building from day one but not make it their goal.

3:27 It’s important to get counsel when you think you’re ready, but not from your launch team that is sick of setting up chairs.

4:01 Getting a building is not going to solve problems with leadership or attrition of people. "It’s actually just going to change and give you a new set of problems."

4:37 Often, pastors don’t calculate the actual cost of owning property.

5:35 Lee’s biggest recommendation to pastors is unless they have a lot of experience in real estate to find an expert in that area.

6:50 Danny says church planters should have a savings plan/emergency fund built into their budget from Day One.

7:52 Danny says as you’re networking in the community, talk with real estate agents and let them know that someday you hope to get in a building. "If you ever see something that you think might work for us, let us know."

9:38 Lee talks about how he prayed for a building for his church plant in Arizona, and God answered his prayer.

11:00 Danny discusses why a commercial real estate attorney is worth the cost.

12:41 Danny talks about how the Converge Cornerstone Fund helped his church buy its first building.

13:14 Danny shares about his church doing a capital campaign to purchase its second building.

15:07 Danny says there are advantages to having the freedom to use a building without having to buy it.

16:24 Lee’s final advice: Trust the Lord that he’ll open the right doors at the right time, and he’ll also shut the doors that need to be shut, so don’t force something that’s not there.

0:19 Lee Stephenson introduces listeners to the episode topic.

1:44 Danny Parmelee talks about how he was initially anti-multisite and how he came to see it differently.

2:33 Danny discusses how his church ended up choosing to do multisiting and church planting at the same time.

4:25 Danny says the key indicator when deciding to go multisite is if you will be able to reach more people for Christ by doing it.

5:08 Danny says his church was committed to a one-message model — the same speaker during the weekend at all locations.

6:23 Danny talks about the logistical challenges of having three locations.

7:08 Lee asks Danny if he had someone to drive him to the locations or if he drove himself.

8:27 Lee asks Danny what he would do differently now.

9:47 Lee shares two questions to consider when thinking about multisiting.

10:38 When people say they’re taking the best of both worlds of planting and multisiting, they actually often take the worst of both and put them together.

11:37 When considering church planting or multisiting, it’s important to think through the process of why you’re doing what you’re doing.

12:28 Lee talks about the hybrid model of church planting and multisiting that his church in Central Florida uses.

15:01 Danny points out that the unreached people you’re trying to reach are not impressed that you’re multisite. Don’t do it because you want to look good when you show up at a conference or within your network or denomination. Ask, "How are we going to reach more people for Christ? What’s the most effective way?"

16:00 Lee finishes by encouraging people to play to their gifts. "If you’re not an apostolic leader, multisite may not be the way to go. But if you’re an apostolic leader, it’s OK to embrace that and lead accordingly."

0:18 Lee and Danny talk about their reading habits and how they’ve changed during the pandemic.

2:14 Danny and Lee discuss their preferred learning processes.

3:31 Lee shares his first book recommendation: Can’t Hurt Me by David Goggins.

5:14 Danny’s first recommendation is The Start-Up J Curve by Howard Love.

7:32 Lee’s second book recommendation is Atomic Habits by James Clear.

8:52 The second book on Danny’s list is The Motive by Patrick Lencioni.

9:58 Lee talks about a surprising choice for him: Caffeine by Michael Pollan.

11:42 Danny’s last recommendation is The Vision Driven Leader by Michael Hyatt.

12:35 Lee encourages listeners to share their top three books from the past year. You can contact Lee and Danny at churchplanting@converge.org.

Church planter Walter Angelica discusses the journey that led him from Argentina to Jacksonville, Florida, and beyond.

0:18 Lee Stephenson introduces special guest Walter Angelica, pastor of Iglesia Ciudad, a church plant with three congregations in Florida.

0:50 Walter talks about moving to Jacksonville, Florida, from Argentina to do his seminary work and how he responded to God’s call to plant a church in Jacksonville.

1:55 Walter discusses planting a Latino church in a city that doesn’t have many Latino families.

2:32 Walter explains if there is a difference between the terms "Hispanic" and "Latino."

4:41 Walter talks about the challenges of growing from one to three congregations.

6:36 "We are in three cities. We speak two languages. And we try to be one church. It’s complex."

8:34 Walter says church planting is not a normal part of Latino church culture. He’s noticed in the Latino community that many church plants are created through splits.

9:18 "We planted the church within the same vision and value trying to embrace unity among diversity. It has been a challenge, but it has been a beautiful challenge."

10:48 Walter has realized that each congregation has its own culture. "The things that work in Jacksonville don’t work in Orange Park, and the thing that works in Orange Park is not necessarily working here in Orlando."

11:43 Walter believes in the traditional form of church — meeting in person. "When the people of God are in the presence of God, the power of God manifests. So we’re doing everything we possibly can to get back as a church."

0:18 Lee Stephenson introduces special guest Stanley Patton, pastor of Victory Church, a church plant in Melbourne, Florida.

0:53 Stanley gives a brief history of his church and talks about why he decided to plant in Melbourne.

1:33 Lee asks Stanley if he thinks Florida is part of the Bible Belt.

2:40 Stanley shares lessons he’s learned from leading a multicultural, multigenerational church during the pandemic.

5:04 Stanley talks about how COVID-19 has impacted his church’s Victory Kids Sports ministry.

6:54 Stanley shares how Victory Kids Sports created a virtual experience for its sports programming.

8:50 Stanley talks about how his church has been able to not only survive but thrive financially during the pandemic.

10:21 Stanley says as a pastor or leader, it’s OK not to have all the answers. "It doesn’t mean that I have apathy in that moment. It doesn’t mean that I don’t care. It’s just the fact that I don’t have clarity."

12:23 Stanley reminds us that seasons of difficulty are not new. "I just believe that that the God I serve, he loves me enough that he’s not going to leave me in my mess and leave me in mediocrity. He’s going to help us rise out of this meteorically in a new season."

0:18 Lee talks about Converge’s goal of planting 312 churches in five years.

1:20 Lee discusses how Converge came up with the number 312.

2:21 Danny asks Lee if they considered changing the goal because of the pandemic.

3:12 Lee says there are more people in the church planting pipeline than any other time in his history with Converge.

3:55 Lee talks about the concept behind Church Planting Weekend.

4:35 "If we could get a third of our churches playing the game and getting involved at some level, praying, raising up people from within to go out and plant a church, we easily reach our number [of 312 new churches]."

5:20 We want every Converge church across our movement to set aside time on the first Sunday of June, or sometime between Mother’s Day and Father’s Day, to have this conversation.

6:07 Lee says, "I believe that a lot of our churches, they have at least one person in their church that maybe God has called and even anointed to plant a church."

6:50 Lee talks about the resources Converge is providing churches for Church Planting Weekend.

7:59 Lee says, "The goal is to make it as easy as possible for anybody to have this conversation."

8:04 Lee gives some ideas of what churches can do for Church Planting Weekend.

9:22 Lee says, "If the majority of our churches engage in this conversation, I think it could be overwhelming of what we would see God do."

0:28 Lee Stephenson, executive director of Church Planting for Converge, introduces Ty DesEnfants, who planted Prairie Hills Community Church in Lusk, Wyoming.

1:00 Ty talks about how God called him to start a church in a small town like Lusk.

3:00 Ty describes Wyoming "as a small town with really long streets." The population of the entire state is less than 600,000. The county Ty lives in has 2000 people. "We’re about 90 miles from the nearest Walmart."

6:05 Lee asks Ty what advice he would give people thinking about planting a rural church.

9:25 Ty talks about where he grew up and why he’s uniquely positioned to pastor a church in Lusk. 

12:25 Ty discusses how the pandemic has affected his church and the adjustments they have made.

13:25 Ty shares about his church’s experience having a drive-in church service for Easter in a snowstorm last year.

16:49 Ty talks about resources for people interested in rural church planting.

0:20 Lee Stephenson talks about how some standard metrics for pastors and church planters have changed because of the pandemic.

1:09 Lee and Danny Parmelee discuss the difficulty of determining attendance numbers during COVID-19.

2:51 Danny says it’s hard during this season to measure engagement and impact.

4:06 Online views don’t equal engagement.

5:10 You could waste a lot of time chasing after a somewhat meaningless number.

6:45 Often, numbers have more to do with our egos and insecurities.

7:35 "More than ever, it’s not about the content that a church is delivering. It is more about the conversation that the church is creating. So conversation equals engagement."

7:53 Are your giving units decreasing or increasing? If they increase, it’s a sign that more people are buying into the church’s mission and vision.

8:42 People you haven’t seen but are still giving indicate that they are still "with you."

9:39 Danny says stories are important indicators of the impact your church is making.

10:28 Stories should be celebrated and shared. The more you share them, the more it encourages other people to act and to be the church throughout the week in no matter what the context is.

10:59 Lee thinks it’s important to count who’s in some discipleship process. "How are people connecting with other people and growing in their own discipleship process?"

11:54 Danny talks about the value of surveying your people.

13:10 Lee and Danny discuss counting commitments to Christ and baptisms.

14:56 Lee encourages pastors and planters to set some personal metrics. Are you focused more on creating and pushing content? Or are you looking at creating a conversation that’s meaningful and caring for people?

16:04 Danny talks about setting goals you can control.

0:18 This episode is a continuation of the conversation Lee and Danny had in the previous episode.

1:19 Danny points out a silver lining during this difficult time.

2:19 Danny recommends not to respond too quickly or emotionally if suddenly your giving is down.

3:35 Danny discusses looking at your current staff and assessing if you need to reorganize.

5:04 Lee shares an example of God's grace during a financially challenging time at his church plant.

5:49 Questions to ask when a staff member leaves: Do you need to replace them? Do you need that position? Or do you need something else? 

6:25 Lee asks Danny if his church ever had to cut salaries across the board.

7:44 Danny talks about his church’s decision not to provide health insurance for its staff. 

9:48 Danny and Lee discuss if the lead pastor should offer to take the biggest and first pay cut.

12:27 Lee and Danny talk about solo pastors who don’t have any other paid staff.

15:21 What are three options for a planter who is struggling financially after two or three years?

18:24 Lee encourages you to embrace the challenge because it’s in the challenge that opportunity is presented. Look for new opportunities and ways to do things differently.

18:42 Lee says pastors shouldn’t be afraid to have the financial conversation with their church and leaders and talks about what to say.

19:12 Danny discusses several ideas for sharing staff and resources.

0:24 Lee introduces this two-part series on the challenges that church planters face specific to the economic downturn.

2:07 Danny says most of the church planters he talked to weren’t affected as much as they were expecting at the beginning of the pandemic.

3:22 Danny says the most challenging thing about COVID is there is so much unknown.

3:43 You have to figure out what are the absolutes that can’t change, like rent.

4:53 Lee talks about the 2020 end-of-year giving at his church plant.

6:39 In the U.S., when things turn down economically, nonprofit giving goes up.

8:33 Lee says it was tough to try to create a budget for 2021.

10:46 Lee says his church plant’s designated giving to benevolence grew significantly in 2020.

11:42 Lee explains his church plant’s budgeting decisions for 2021.

12:58 Lee’s church had to cut things they were dreaming of doing.

14:15 Lee discusses the most critical drivers in the life of his church that couldn’t be cut.

16:04 Lee talks about an after-school sports program that his church invested in that they had to shut down when COVID hit.

18:08 Lee says you have to watch your financial numbers weekly when things are challenging economically.

19:19 Danny encourages you to keep an eye on things even if you say you’re not a money guy or you don’t like it. Burying your head in the sand doesn’t do any good.

0:33 When Lee started his first church plant, he didn’t feel like he had any limits.

1:09 Lee thinks it’s a great gift when we become more in touch with our limits as a leader.

1:41 Danny talks about a dramatic change that happened to him about five years after planting and the importance of having a coach.

2:16 Danny shares how a 360 evaluation helped him identify his strengths and weaknesses.

4:06 Danny and Lee explain what the 360 experience is.

6:54 It’s hard sometimes to hear things that you don’t perceive about yourself as being the reality, but at the same time, you’ve got to see it as a gift to help you know how to best lead through your strengths.

7:43 Lee says his most impactful "aha" moments have come through life circumstances, like being bedridden for 12 weeks.

7:55 "You realize quickly: I’m not nearly as important as I thought I was. And honestly, that was a great gift."

8:45 "That allowed me to reallocate energy and think through difficult situations completely different. I think it gave me permission to say no more often."

9:04 Danny says leadership limits usually come down to competency issues or relational capacity.

11:21 Lee shares two indicators that you’re pressing up into your area of limits.

13:12 Lee also says to pay attention to your habits, like negative thinking and not sleeping well.

13:55 Danny and Lee talk about the importance of finding friends and colleagues who you can trust to speak into your life.

1:09 Lee asks Danny if his perspective on this issue changed over time.

1:53 Starting out, Danny didn’t want to say anything about politics and other issues.

2:47 Danny says the reasoning behind being cautious isn’t being politically correct, but not missing the opportunity in a very divided country to speak to someone about Jesus.

3:12 Always wanting people to think that you have more in common with them than you don’t have in common with them.

4:10 After the Capitol riots, Danny saw some pastors go off the rails. "It was just adding fuel to the fire of division."

4:40 If you’re going to say anything, it somehow should point it back toward Jesus.

4:52 But you also may be communicating just as much by being absent. "So it’s a toss-up. There’s no easy answer."

6:13 Lee asks Danny how he helps young church planters know if they should or shouldn’t say something.

6:21 Danny says having many people speak into it is important, including coaches, your leadership board and nonbelievers.

7:32 Tethering and tying it back to Scripture is going to be the best way to help your people.

8:17 Think of your preaching as discipleship. How are you going to make better followers of Christ?

9:18 Lee says what we see happening culturally across our country is somewhat a direct result of Christian leaders not speaking up enough in the right way to lead people in how to manage their thoughts.

10:09 The challenge is you’re always going to tick someone off. It’s not about keeping everybody happy. It’s about doing what’s right and what God’s called you to do and say.

10:40 Lee talks about what he posted on social media after the storming of the Capitol.

12:09 Lee’s church radically changed the entire service that week.

12:54 Lee talks about how he called his church to repentance and how it led to great conversations all week.

15:02 As a leader, you need to set the example for what it means to be slow to speak and quick to listen.

16:43 There are moments when you’ve got to be willing to admonish your people.

1:28 Danny discusses the dangers of playing the comparison game.

2:05 It’s important to find ways to reinforce the values over and over.

3:21 You have to constantly trickle the culture, vision and value system in the life of your people. You have to figure out different ways to communicate it, but never let off the gas pedal.

4:31 When people get more task-focused than relational and ministry-focused, they probably have lost sight of the mission. 

5:42 You have to show it in your own life. You have to reflect it, that this is something you believe in, and you’re living it, and they need to be able to see it, that it’s evident in the way you live life and you approach people and you approach ministry as a whole.

6:01 Find ways to celebrate it. Celebrate life change, celebrate all of those key moments resulting from the mission being carried out. And the celebration itself empowers people in a totally different way than you could ever do on your own. 

7:49 Lee and his team continuously set 90-day goals. "We fight against silos happening by doing that."

9:02 Lee discusses four goals he and his team set.

11:50 When your church plant is young, the timing of your goals has to be shorter.

12:39 Lee talks about the six by six system. What are the six things that you need to accomplish over the next six weeks? 

13:25 Conferences are great places to get ideas. But any idea that you get, you should sit on it for a while.

14:03 As a visionary leader, you’ve got to be careful because a visionary leader can reinvent the vision every 90 days. You will wear your leaders and team out doing that.

1:00 Danny talks about his sermon preparation and delivery in the beginning.

2:16 Danny says a major shift came when his church went multisite and started prerecording services. He began having people give input before he delivered the sermon.

2:55 Danny says the preaching evaluation was part of his church’s leadership pipeline development. There were usually about five to eight people in the room, including pastoral staff and young leaders who were residents or interns.

4:16 He tried to have diversity culturally and gender-wise in the room.

4:47 Danny says preaching got more difficult the bigger the church got.

6:38 Danny discusses how many hours he spent on sermon prep.

8:20 Danny talks about why he loved having a preaching team.

10:13 Lee says you need to realize that your relational capacity is more important than your preaching in the first couple of years as a church plant.

10:20 Lee talks about how he devoted more prep time to his sermons as his church grew.

12:12 Lee says that as the church grew, he took more time to figure out how to communicate so that everyone took something away that would be meaningful to them.

14:00 Danny says if you’re building relational equity with people, then what you say, and because it lines up with your life, will have an impact, even if you’re not the most eloquent speaker with the best illustrations. 

14:27 The ministry that you do Monday through Friday and Saturday will enhance your preaching on Sunday. 

15:00 Lee encourages pastors who are working another job either part time or even full time. You can still do it, even if you aren’t able to put in as much time as you hope to.

0:56 Lee talks about how Converge Church Planting started the year with great expectations. "We were building toward an internal goal of wanting to plant 312 churches nationally, among our network, among our movement, and then COVID hit." 

1:18 A lot of people thought the church planting pipeline would dry up, and it would take years to recover. That hasn’t been the case. Lee says Converge has assessed more couples this year than in the previous eight years. 

3:20 Danny says there are openness and receptiveness to church planting.

4:17 Lee says God is using this time to raise up the next generation of pastors, leaders and planters.

4:25 This season has forced the church to focus on individual development. How do we grow our people in this season to be deeper disciples and to embrace what it may be to be a leader on mission? 

5:35 Danny says there’s an excitement that church doesn’t have to look exactly the same as it did before.

6:10 Lee says churches are more willing to release staff to pursue missional causes. It’s fired up our existing churches at a different level to rethink their mission.

8:06 Lee has seen an increase in candidates wanting to pursue a covocational or bivocational method of planting.

8:45 Lee encourages listeners to share the church planting trends they’re seeing by emailing him at info@converge.org.

1:02 Lee says the first mistake is overspending.

1:13 Two things church planters overspend on are marketing and sound system/audiovisual.  

2:02 Danny says the drive to overspend comes from the comparison culture.

2:34 Danny and Lee recommend having a coach to help you guard against overspending.

3:14 Lee says you need to create a budget and stick to it.

3:42 Another way Lee sees planters overspending is staffing or setting up their own salary.

4:21 Danny says the second mistake is making people feel guilty for leaving the church, which he struggled with at his church plant.

6:05 Danny eventually learned, "When people come and go, it’s just part of it. Have a kingdom mindset, send them out with a blessing."

6:35 Lee says when someone is leaving, look at that as an opportunity to ask some questions and learn from them. "Hey, I know you’re going to be heading out, are there things that we could pay attention to that we could grow from, that I could grow from as a leader that would help us move forward as a church?"

7:24 Lee talks about the third mistake: choosing the wrong meeting space.

9:01 Danny says if you’re planning on attracting families, you need to think about children’s space.

9:31 Lee says you need to pay attention to the cultural aspect of the facility. If it has a negative connotation culturally and historically in that community, people aren’t going to come.

10:16 Danny discusses the fourth mistake: giving titles like pastor and director too early. Give responsibility, not title. It’s easier to remove responsibility from someone than it is to remove a title.

11:25 Lee says leadership has to be something you recognize, not something you appoint.

11:57 Danny says he set his interns up for failure by giving them the title pastor.

12:23 The fifth mistake: overprogramming.

13:03 Danny and Lee talk about responding to people who want to start a new ministry in your church.

0:29 Lee introduces his special guest, Dr. Scott Livingston.

1:04 Scott explains what emotional intelligence is. 

5:20 Scott says whether we have good emotional intelligence relates to how well we know ourselves.

6:47 How well you know yourself and the impact that emotion has will impact your judgment and decision making.

7:39 Self-awareness is understanding what triggers you emotionally and the impact of that trigger on you. 

8:42 Scott shares an example of a time when he didn’t have control over his emotions. 

11:23 Scott says our emotions are signals to us. They’re giving us information from our outside world. Do we allow our thinking to come in and process with the emotion so that we can make good decisions? Or do we react so fast that our emotions rule the day?

12:11 Scott talks about empathy and compassion.

15:17 Scottthinks church leaders’ job is to understand other people’s perspectives and show care and compassion without sacrificing their self-regard or self-confidence.

15:38 Scott discusses the importance of balancing our emotions.  

18:04 Scott says he’s seeing a lack of hardiness, or stress tolerance, in leaders during this season.

18:28 Scott talks about the three components of hardiness.

23:09 Scott explains why we need to pay attention to and trust our emotions.

24:03 Scott talks about the importance of rest.

26:11 Lee and Scott discuss why you need to have a hobby.

27:23 Scott says leaders need to care for their body (What we put in it; how we use it; are we exercising it?)

28:37 Scott says relationships are the key to being wise. Community matters.

30:12 Scott recommends resources to help you grow in your emotional intelligence.

32:50 Scott shares how you can contact him on his website.

1:41 Since giving can fluctuate from month to month, Danny says planters need to be careful not to overreact and make any super drastic, long-term decisions.

3:13 Lee recommends working with whoever handles finances in your church to project if we play out the same giving habits over the next (x) number of weeks, when will we not be able to make payroll or pay rent?

4:27 Danny says vision always works better than desperation when talking to your people about a financial need. "Desperation will work short term, but you have only a few times that you can use that."

5:15 Danny says you need to be honest about where the church is at financially.

6:27 Lee encourages pastors not to be afraid to talk about money. "Just make it a normal part of the conversation of what it means to be a disciple."

7:24 Lee says pastors need to be proactive about having this conversation. Knowing ahead of time that this could be a hard season, engage them before that becomes a reality.

7:59 Lee encourages pastors in May to ask people not to forget about the church financially during the summer.  

8:35 Danny explains why he advocates for the lead pastor knowing how much individuals in the church give.

10:23 Lee says when talking about giving, acknowledge everybody in the room. "Give a way out or a way in depending on where they’re at financially. Don’t just speak at people like everybody in the room is rich, but also don’t speak at [them] like everybody in the room is poor."

14:11 Lee cautions against giving everyone on your staff a credit card.

18:08 Lee talks about two areas in the church budget he’s not willing to cut.

0:53 Abby talks about what she does at Blu Wave Social.

1:57 Abby shares how a church’s social media presence led her to decide to follow Jesus.

2:36 Lee asks Abby about the three biggest mistakes she sees churches in using social media.

2:50 The first mistake she sees is churches not using social media.

3:25 Abby discusses social graphics.

5:06 Churches miss out when they don’t respond to comments and messages.

6:49 Abby says churches need a different strategy for each social platform.

8:29 Danny talks about the value of authenticity on social media.

9:06 Lee asks Abby how churches can create greater engagement on Instagram and Facebook.

9:36 She says churches shouldn’t post more than one announcement a week.

10:48 Abby talks about the best times and days to post on social media.

11:39 She discusses the benefits of resharing posts on Facebook Stories and Instagram Stories.

12:12 Abby recommends using videos and photos of people in your church to bring a human element to your social presence.

12:45 Lee asks Abby: How many times a day and week should churches post on social media? When does it get to be too much? When is it not enough to create engagement?

14:15 Danny asks Abby if it’s OK for planters and pastors to hand off social media responsibilities to a volunteer.

16:29 Abby talks about how to plan out and schedule your social media content.

2:08 Lee asks Danny: What have you seen done that is a complete mistake when it comes to offering communion?

3:11 Since passing the basket is out, probably for good, Danny says the simplest option is placing an offering box or bucket in a secure location in the back.

3:32 Danny says, Don’t take the worship element out of giving just because it’s online.

4:21 Even if it’s just a quick announcement, you still have the opportunity to cast vision and train people in what giving actually is all about.

4:31 It’s still important to schedule the offering within the normal order of worship experience, whether in person or virtually.

5:10 You can use the offering as a time for people to fill out virtual connect cards.

5:34 Make the offering about worship, not just the function of a financial transaction.

5:39 Lee says, Don’t bypass the opportunity to teach on giving. "People still need to be reminded and educated, why this is an important part of our faith journey."

5:57 Lee says it’s important to give very easy, clear next steps. If you have boxes or baskets in the back, point those out, explain what to do. Explain envelopes are only necessary for cash. Drive everybody to online giving as much as possible.

7:43 Lee and Danny talk about how to do communion in this season of church? How do you do communion virtually? And then how do you do communion when you do get back to in-person gatherings at some level?

9:29 Lee’s church used pre-packaged communion elements when they had their first in-person gathering since COVID. He explained to people what to do and that they were all put out in a sanitary method.

11:00 Danny says pastors should let people know it’s OK not to take communion if they don’t feel comfortable. Consider doing it at home or wait until you’re more comfortable.

0:46 Lee asks Danny if he thinks buildings will still be effective for ministry and evangelism post-COVID.

2:20 Danny says studio space may be more important than seating capacity.

2:48 Danny thinks this season opens up the opportunity for a lot more shared spaces.

3:10 Danny foresees church buildings being used in other ways throughout the week.

4:26 Lee thinks new church buildings will be designed differently.

4:54 Danny sees more opportunities for multi-sites and church planting.

5:51 Lee and Danny talk about budgeting for more people-specific ministry and operations versus just into facility usage.

7:00 "This is the season for the apostolic leader to take as much ground as you can. Leverage your strengths and your gifts. The church in this season needs you as an apostolic leader to step in and help."

7:17 Danny thinks buildings still will be important. "I still think that buildings communicate permanency, longevity."

0:41 According to Barna, about one-third of practicing Christians (32%) aren’t attending church in-person or online.

1:11 Danny says the novelty of attending church online has worn off for people.

1:43 Danny says not having accountability makes it easy for people to skip church.

2:44 Danny feels the upside of this time will be reimagining what engagement looks like, whereas before engaging the church meant: serve on "this" Sunday team.

3:08 Lee says initially online engagement and giving at his church increased. Then summer hit, and like a typical summer, things changed. Giving started to drop, and overall engagement dropped significantly.

4:12 Lee says it’s been difficult for his church to get people to engage on social media.

4:57 Churches have to be more creative on how they define, look at and count engagement.

5:12 If you’re going to change the rules of engagement, you have to answer these key questions. What are you going to change, and how are you going to change it? What’s realistic when it comes to expectations on engagement?

5:46 Danny says his engagement and participation at his church have dipped during this season.

7:36 Danny thinks there’s a great opportunity for pastors to see engagement beyond the online Sunday service or social media. He’s seen church plants mobilize their people to engage in community nonprofits, outreaches events, schools, etc. That is real church engagement when you are the hands and feet of Jesus in the community.

8:43 Lee says we have to be willing to get our hands dirty and get involved in people’s lives. "The more involved you get in people’s lives, the messier it is."

9:55 When you see somebody share something that you do on social media, you as a church should go in and thank them for that. Celebrate that they are trying in this season to get the word out, be an encouragement and share what your church is doing.

11:34 Lee says people are suffering from screen fatigue.

12:06 How do we do discipleship in the digital world?

13:02 Where should you invest your resources? Do you see yourself making disciples just of those people in your community? Or do you see yourself making virtual disciples all across the world?

16:19 What are you doing to create conversation? It’s not about just content development. There is plenty of content out there. It is more about: Are we creating conversations that are moving people further in the discipleship pathway?

16:55 Lee encourages listeners to share what they have seen when it comes to church engagement.

0:22 Lee has had a lot of conversations with people who are struggling emotionally. He says a lot of people are wrestling with a lack of purpose in this season.

1:14 Danny says working from home has caused some people to lose purpose.

2:11 Lee discusses how different preaching to a screen and camera is from preaching to a live audience.

3:33 Danny talks about how we were created to be in community and need genuine encouragement as people and pastors.

4:15 Lee asks Danny what advice he has for pastors and church leaders knowing that purpose is an issue right now.

4:27 Danny suggests starting with the teaching element — teaching with authenticity.

5:09 Danny asks Lee what his church is doing beyond the sermon.

5:23 Lee says the No. 1 thing is trying to get people more engaged.

5:45 Leverage everything you can to help people understand evangelism needs to happen continuously outside of the one-hour Sunday experience that we’re used to.

6:35 How are we training and equipping our people to understand that God has, in essence, scattered the church, but that doesn’t mean the mission has stopped?

6:53 Danny asks Lee for practical examples of how his church is helping people engage their neighbors.  

7:34 Lee says his church readjusted all of its series in this season. Some of the questions they are answering: Why is the church important? Why did God create the church and even more, helping people understand why God calls us the bride of Christ? How do you love your neighbor? How do you be the Good Samaritan in this season?

8:56 Help people look for open doors that God’s created right in their backyard, that maybe before they were too busy to notice.

9:12 Danny says when you reach out to the community, you might offend some people.

9:54 Lee says volunteers can help by calling people who have been to your church to check in and see how they are doing.

10:26 Danny asks Lee what pastors and planters can do to help people struggling with mental health issues.

10:59 Lee says, first, you have to let people know that there is a way to get help. What’s the next step?

11:27 Talk regularly about how to get help, communicate it to your people via text, email, social media and even add into your sermons.

11:36 Lee’s church created a "we care" webpage (harvestflorida.org/we-care) for scheduling time to meet with a pastor, professional counseling and benevolence needs.

13:49 Lee says this what the church needs to be about: How are we resourcing our people? How are we enabling them to continue to carry out the mission?

14:09 Lee encourages listeners to reach out to Danny or him if they are wrestling with a lack of purpose.

0:30 Lee says this season has gone from being like a blizzard to winter to now more of an ice age.

1:17 Danny says the hard part is the unknown.

2:00 Danny asks Lee about what he’s been doing with his family this summer.

2:26 Lee says he’s taken up all kinds of new hobbies to get his mind off of things. His family has also done a lot of fishing and traveled to see family in Phoenix.

3:53 Lee and his wife are constantly having conversations about what’s next. "What do we do next?"

4:55 Danny and his family were on vacation in Destin, Florida, when the pandemic started.

5:25 One of the things Danny and his family have done together during this season is taking a walk every evening.

6:27 Danny says, "There’s tons of difficult things, but let’s try to see some of the silver lining and the positive there."

6:33 Danny says working remotely in Florida in June was good for him and his family.

7:37 Danny recommends using the time to make memories, even if it means spending a little more money.

8:00 Lee says it’s OK to take time to rest. "Sometimes, you need to give yourself permission to go ahead and free up your schedule to go do that."

9:07 Danny says planters are busier now more than ever even if they’re not meeting for Sunday services.

9:49 Lee discusses the importance of sitting down with your spouse to budget and schedule your time.

0:44 Matt discusses why he decided to plant in South Florida.

1:42 Matt says his church started in his townhouse, then moved into a community center and launched in a high school.

2:13 Matt explains how his church has been able to connect with millennials and Gen Zers.

3:30 Matt discusses the importance of developing community and relationships.

5:28 Matt talks about how his church took a different approach to small groups called Lift socials.

7:01 Matt says part of their discipleship process is building friendships and relationships through Lift socials.

9:08 Matt shares about the challenges he’s faced as a church planter.

11:41 Matt talks about what kept him going during the fundraising process even though it was hard for him.

1:18 Bryan recommends guarding the vision. "We start adding stuff that makes sense at first, and all of a sudden, we’re adding stuff that no longer makes sense to the vision. Once you start something, it is really hard to get rid of it. And things become sacred cows really quickly."

2:16 Bryan says to be careful about who you put in leadership. "Test leaders well before you put them into those positions."

3:33 Bryan talks about how a planter should approach a church that is considering replanting or even giving away its building.

5:44 Bryan discusses how Natural Church Development (NCD) can help you assess your church’s health.

8:07 Bryan says a church must be committed to prayer to be spiritually healthy.

8:35 If you take an assessment and then put it on a shelf and say, "Oh, that was interesting" and never doing anything with it, it’s not going to be effective. "What makes NCD effective is when you actually play it out and implement changes with what we say is your minimum factor — that thing that scores the lowest."

9:22 Bryan says it’s OK to want your church to grow, but you want it to grow in the right way, the God-honoring, gospel-centric way.

11:05 Bryan talks about holistic small groups as an example of a minimum factor.

1:22 Danny talks about how the COVID-19 pandemic has changed his thinking about online campuses.

3:22 Danny discusses what he sees as potential pitfalls when it comes to just operating as a virtual church.

4:21 Lee asks, as a virtual church, "How do we get people to take that next step relationally with people that are going to spur them on in the faith?"

5:29 Lee shares more questions to consider: What does church discipline look like in a virtual church world? How do you do worship? How do you do communion? How do you do children’s ministry?

6:08 Lee and Danny talk about opportunities that exist when it comes to virtual church planting.

8:04 Lee points out the need to be good stewards of resources when considering funding a virtual church plant.

10:02 Danny discusses the skills a virtual church planter will need to be successful.

11:18 Danny thinks we’re going to see a lot more co-vocational pastors.

12:06 Lee encourages you to reach out to Converge or Converge MidAmerica if you’re interested in virtual church planting.

1:45 Danny thinks even if a vaccine comes out tomorrow, it will take a minimum of one to two years for people’s psyche to calm down and get back to normal, if ever.

3:38 Danny and Lee talk about how services – in person and online – will be different in the future.

5:35 Lee says churches have an opportunity to raise up a whole new group of leaders. How do we equip them to carry out neighborhood ministry at the level we need to so it’s not so dependent on just hired staff?

6:37 Danny says the church has a huge opportunity to scale at a very large level and even go into other communities at a low cost.

8:38 Lee addresses the challenge of creating community and doing discipleship when everyone is battling screen fatigue.

10:46 Lee says a benefit of the COVID-19 pandemic is it is forcing Christians not to isolate themselves just among other Christians. Use this as an opportunity to teach your people what it means to love people compassionately and be kind and loving to their neighbors.

12:29 Danny thinks multiple types of communicators will be needed in the post-COVID-19 church.

13:59 Lee talks about how his church plant is trying to figure out how to hire social media people and video editors.

14:44 Lee reminds us that the church’s mission hasn’t changed. Our methodology may change, and that’s OK. God is still God, and he’s still in control of everything.

1:06 Danny talks about the mentality planters need to have when relaunching.

1:38 Planters need to have a plan and not think, "We’ve been going for a while, so relaunch means we’re just going to pick up right where we left off."

3:01 Danny gives his advice on sermon series topics.

4:11 Lee encourages churches to have a communication plan ready now in prepping the groundwork for when they get to relaunch.

4:44 Lee shares several questions to think about.

6:08 Danny says pastors and planters need to be prepared that not everyone is going to respond to reopening the church in the same way.

7:32 Lee and Danny talk about volunteers.

9:47 Lee says pastors and teams will need to be flexible for the next couple of years.

10:10 Lee and Danny talk about how to communicate with people who come back and those who stay home.

11:28 Converge is praying for you and is here to walk with you as you’re thinking through and creating a relaunch strategy.

1:40 Lee says his church plant, which is about 18 months old, was already having conversations about how to maximize the online church experience before the coronavirus pandemic hit.

2:16 Lee quickly learned that the quality of recording and sound equipment matters when it comes to keeping people engaged online.

3:34 Lee talks about the setup he’s using to record his sermons.

4:38 Lee’s church is using SlingStudio to manage the camera and recording.

5:57 Lee says it’s also important to pay attention to lighting.

7:00 Lee talks about how to preach using a teleprompter.

7:58 Danny and Lee talk more about SlingStudio.

10:03 Lee discusses how to create a worship experience that engages people at home.

11:08 Lee talks more about using a teleprompter and how much one costs.

12:33 Lee says they try to make their services no longer than 45 minutes.

13:19 The order of service at Lee’s church is a quick host introduction and prayer, two worship songs, a bumper video leading in the sermon, the sermon and ending with the host.

13:52 Lee has found that participation falls off quickly when sermons are longer than 25 minutes.

16:08 Lee tells pastors to watch what other churches are doing to find ways to improve. Evaluate every week; how did we do engaging people online?

16:52 Lee is looking at this as a long-term gift to the church versus being a detriment.

1:07 Brandon talks about what drew him to plant Generation Church in Portland, Tennessee, in 2012.

2:16 Brandon says Portland has seen an influx of impoverished people since 2008. There’s also a high percentage of divorce, sexual abuse and drug addiction there.

4:02 Brandon discusses the advantages of planting in a city the size of Portland (population of about 13,000).

5:41 Brandon talks about the challenges that come with planting in a city the size of Portland.

7:45 Brandon shares how he developed a launch team and built relationships in the community.

10:13 Brandon talks about the excitement his launch team had leading up to the church’s launch.

12:19 Brandon says one of his church’s biggest challenges is finances, because of the demographic it reaches. "Our financial situation is pretty good for a church our age, but not good for a church our size."

1:44 Danny thinks the biggest thing is to be patient and get the right person, not the best person.

3:00 Danny says it’s important to spend time with a candidate outside of the interview room context, where you get to see how the person operates in real life.

4:00 Danny discusses hiring pastoral staff.

4:46 Danny talks about how he decided if someone would be at the director level or pastor level.

5:28 Danny says his church gave candidates a 25-question theological survey as the first step in the hiring process.

6:24 Danny’s church posted an opening online and on social media, but the most important thing they did was let people in their network know that they were hiring for the position.

7:12 As they got inquiries, Danny’s church would send candidates its theology and philosophy of ministry.

8:04 After that stage, the church chose five or six people to have phone conversations with.

8:20 The final three candidates would spend the weekend at the church.

8:41 Danny used three different interview groups (character, competency, culture) made up of pastors, elders and laypeople.

9:35 Danny says he did an exit interview at the end of the weekend to get candidates’ feedback. He also allowed them to clarify anything they had said and share "any skeletons in the closet."

11:03 Lee likes to focus internally when hiring because those people are already immersed in the church’s culture.

12:00 Lee says planters need to know their philosophy of ministry and write it down so that they won’t comprise when hiring or placing leaders into positions.

13:00 Lee reminds us that, ultimately, any hiring involves risk. "You’ve got to be willing to take the risk to grow the team, but don’t compromise the things that got you to where you were and will continue to move you forward."

13:30 If you realize that the person you hired is not a good fit; pull the trigger quickly to end it, move on, readdress and try to hire again, if possible.

14:10 Danny shares two clarifying questions he asked his team: If we saw this person failing five years from now, what would be that issue? If this person is going to be successful five years from now, what is going to be that thing?

0:52 Lee says it wasn’t difficult to get people from the launch team to serve and give. The challenge came at about the year mark. 

1:28 At the one-year mark, Lee realized the majority of their giving was still coming through launch team members.

1:47 Only 10% of the regular attenders were regularly serving. Lee says the goal is 40% participation.

2:14 Lee reminds planters that this is normal as you move beyond the launch phase to being an "actual" church.

2:30 Lee says it’s important to create the opportunity and share the vision.

2:38 Lee says there are two ways to share the vision: Focus on the need, or focus on the opportunity and great impact. Don’t go with the need. If you only focus on the need, the need will always be there. You may get people serving for just a moment to fill that immediate need, but eventually, you’ll wear your people out because the need never actually gets dealt with.

3:23 Lee talks about how he addressed this issue with his church from the stage on a Sunday morning.

5:12 Lee says it’s important to celebrate the people who are serving every weekend and the lives being changed because of their service. 

5:31 Also, challenge volunteers to find and recruit the next person to come and serve with them.

6:13 Lee talks about why one of his church’s top givers decided to leave the church six months after it started.

7:26 Lee says, if you mobilize and inspire your people, you’ve got to have that next step right away. "That’s where I find a lot of guys fall short."

7:54 Lee talks about the three next steps he gave to people in his church. First, he talked about becoming a prayer partner.

8:18 Secondly, become a volunteer partner. His church set up tables in the lobby for each of the key volunteering opportunities and invited people to stop by one or more of the tables right after the service.

9:42 Danny likes that Lee made this part of the service rather than asking people to stay longer or come back later. 

12:24 Lee encourages volunteers to share their story: why they serve week in and week out, what they love about their area and invite people to join them in that process.

13:02 Lee says the biggest coaching piece was the need for leaders to immediately follow up with each person who signs up in their area of interest by calling or texting them.

13:42 The next step is to invite them to serve with you.

14:24 Lee talks about the third way he asked people to partner with his church — financially.

0:56 Lee says one of the good things that’s come out of this is it’s caused local church leadership to realize that leading the local church isn’t something that just happens on the weekend.

1:50 Danny encourages planters not to think short-sighted — how do I reproduce my Sunday service online? — but instead ask the bigger questions: How do we do evangelism and discipleship? How do we operate as a church?

2:10 Danny recommends using this time as an opportunity to innovate. “I think this is a time for the church and church planters to be able to explore and experiment. The gospel hasn’t changed, just how we operate as a church in evangelism and discipleship. That definitely in these times has fundamentally changed, but probably will have a long-lasting impact.”

3:33 Danny says this is the time to go back to the basics and be checking in with people.

4:04 Lee says that no matter what online platform you use for services, find a way to have a host who interacts with people, so there’s a relational connection.

4:47 Danny talks about a church plant in Arkansas that did a great job of interacting with people during its online service.

5:48 Lee discusses creative ways he’s seen church plants engage their community during this crisis. 

8:06 Lee talks about the benefit of having a social media calendar.

9:36 Lee says planters need to figure out ways to stay connected to their people. His church plant is posting a video devotional from a key church leader every morning.

10:24 Lee says planters need to have at least a 90-day giving strategy. Make sure you set up online giving/text to give.

10:53 Lee thinks churches will see a rise in mental illness, domestic abuse and personal grief in the next 3-6 months.

12:03 Lee says this crisis shows why it’s important to be part of a tribe. Who do you have as a local pastor to be able to lean on and share ideas and resources with?

Go to converge.org/coronavirus for more resources.

1:09 Danny says planters cannot completely ignore politics because it is such a cultural issue. It can be a discipleship issue of teaching your people how they ought to engage culture.

2:09 Lee says it’s important to remind your people to address political issues from a biblical standpoint. "What does the Bible teach? Try to allow the Bible to be your grid as to who you’re going to vote for and don’t just focus on one small snippet, focus on the whole."

3:04 We have freedom of speech, but as Christians, we don’t have the right to be mean. "Don’t lean so hard into your liberties of what the nation does that you lose sight of what it means to be a Christian witness in the midst of this season," Lee said.

3:34 Danny says sharing your political views can cause you to lose your opportunity to share Christ with someone. "What’s more important for me to proclaim? Is it to proclaim Christ or to proclaim the candidate or party that I am a part of?"

4:25 Lee says part of the discipleship process is helping people understand social media — be careful what you post and how you post it.

5:29 Using your church building as a polling site provides a great opportunity to be able to connect and love people and allow them to walk into your building and see what you’re doing.

6:06 Lee says, looking back, he backed away from some social justice issues that probably would have been more appropriate for him to say something. "I do think that there’s a moment where pastors need to speak up for those that are facing some of the injustices that exist in our world. But there is an appropriate way that you can address those conversations and not alienate everybody."

7:18 Danny and Lee share their thoughts on bringing public servants or candidates in to pray for them.

9:26 Lee talks about how to deal with someone from your church who is running for political office.

1:05 Danny says in Converge MidAmerica three churches have chosen to do a restart with a church plant or to gift their building. He’s seen this happen with the launch team he is on.

1:25 Lee discusses three scenarios when it comes to existing churches allowing church plants to use or have their building.

2:39 Danny says sometimes churches give up their building with no strings attached, while others opt for a restart where they give up all control. Either way, the big thing is that there is clarity of expectation for everyone involved.

4:03 Lee says it’s crucial to have things in writing and to get lawyers involved if necessary.

4:28 Danny says it’s essential to follow the existing church’s constitution and bylaws so that the gift can’t be contested in the future.

6:12 Danny talks about how the church plant he’s a part of was given a building. It came about because the church planter built a relationship with the church.

7:42 Danny says at first he was skeptical of the pastor’s motives for giving away the building. The pastor is part of the church plant launch team, serving in the parking lot.

8:13 Danny says a downside is that most older church facilities were not built for community and kids. His church plant invested about $150,000 in renovations, and over half that amount was for the kids’ space. 

9:07 Danny says another drawback is that the church is a smaller facility, which required them to launch with three services.

10:40 Danny talks about three things to consider if you have the opportunity to be given a building.

12:48 Lee’s last piece of advice is to pay attention to the location and the past. How have people in that community viewed that location and that church? Do you have the ability to change, or are you going to be absorbed by whatever the past reputation was of the previous church?

0:54 One of Danny’s biggest pet peeves is haphazard marketing, including misusing mailers and radio ads.

2:37 Danny talks about how many mailers you need to send out to see a return on your investment.

3:54 As an alternative to mailers, Danny recommends spending money on your church website and social media ads.

4:46 Lee and Danny discuss the dangers of being a "conference junkie."

6:23 Lee’s biggest pet peeve is spending money on staff positions that could be filled with volunteers.

9:06 Danny shares his thoughts on paying for musicians or using volunteers.

10:53 Lee warns about investing too much of your resources into technology and neglecting the development of your volunteers and culture.

12:19 Lee talks about how a consultant helped his first church plant save a lot of money.

13:58 Danny says his church plant invested a lot of money in a church management system that they used for a couple of years and then had to start completely over.

0:29 Don planted his church 20 years ago in Hanover, New Hampshire, home to Dartmouth College.

1:33 Don talks about how God has given his church an open door "in a place where people said it was impossible to plant a church."

2:48 Don’s church has met at Hanover High School for the past 20 years.

3:29 Because of outdated zoning laws, his church has been unable to get permanent space in town.

4:35 Twelve years ago, the church initially tried to build in a commercial district but was told it was not allowed. The zoning laws say the building has to be in a residential neighborhood.

4:57 Three years ago, the church purchased a 9-acre parcel of land to build on. They’ve been before the zoning board for the last 2 ½ years and still don’t have a resolution.

6:16 Don discusses doing setup and teardown for 20 years as a portable church.

8:33 Don talks about how they’ve tried not to have an antagonism against the town or its residents.

12:23 Don encourages planters who are facing similar challenges "to take a big step back and make sure you see this through the big picture."

1:14 Amy says the No. 1 thing is making sure your marriage is healthy. She recommends going to counseling to work on any issues you might have in your marriage before you start to plant.

3:35 Randy says, "We know that God’s called us to our marriage first. Before he gave us this call [to plant], he gave us that call."

4:44 Amy talks about the importance of designating a date day with your spouse.

5:27 Randy discusses the emotional stress he and Amy endured after decided to plant their church, including the loss of her father.

6:38 Amy and Randy say that it’s invaluable to have relationships with people you can genuinely trust and pray with.

8:58 Lee asks Randy and Amy about what it’s like working on the same staff together.

9:48 Randy says a huge thing for couples is to realize that your biggest cheerleader should be your spouse.

11:09 Amy talks about how she felt called into ministry before meeting Randy.

12:34 Randy says one of the initial challenges they faced was him not giving Amy a voice during staff meetings.

1:10 Danny says the most important thing is allowing God’s word to speak to you first.

2:26 Danny spent more time studying than writing.

2:59 How can I help them the most, not just give them the most information?

4:20 Often, we stop at the information level, and we miss the practical application.

5:05 We have to help tell people: This is what it means. This is what you do with it. Now do it.

6:24 Figure out the one main point and then have everything else support it.

7:13 Lee talks about the "I-we-God-you-we" communication technique.

8:29 You need to know your audience.

10:10 You’ve got to figure out based on where you’re at, who your church is focusing on, who you feel like God has purposely placed you to reach, who you can best connect to, and go after that.

11:05 Danny discusses three types of preachers — king, prophet and priest.

12:07 Danny talks about the importance of having a teaching team and having other people critique you in your preaching.

13:20 Don’t overdo the amount of time you spend in your office studying and neglect important relationships in the early days of your church plant.

14:12 You need to have people critique your sermon before you preach it.

15:49 Don’t fill your sermon with quotes from other people; personalize it.

16:42 Lee and Danny talk about their sermon planning process.

1:05 Danny’s church plant had baptism services even before it launched for people who came to Christ during the launch team phase.

2:03 Danny’s church celebrated baptisms in the waters of Lake Michigan, which meant it could only baptize people during the summertime.

3:01 Danny talks about the positive and negative aspects of doing outdoor baptisms on a Saturday. He says the church eventually started doing baptisms in the service, as well.

4:02 When Lee’s first church plant started, it did baptisms on Sunday night at a pool.

4:27 Lee found that including baptisms in the Sunday worship experience was very powerful.

4:49 Lee decided to make the entire day about baptism, including the teaching time. Those baptism services "were our best services of the year."

6:30 Danny required people to have a written testimony, which the church approved ahead of time.

7:33 When lots of people were baptized at one time, Danny’s church showed a video of shortened versions of their testimonies.

7:55 Lee says everyone baptized at his church recorded a video testimony, but not all of the testimonies were used in the service.

8:16 After the testimonies video was shown, Lee invited people to trust Jesus or get baptized.

9:31 Danny’s church provided people with baptism T-shirts.

9:54 The conversation turns to communion.

10:25 Danny’s church celebrated communion once a month.

10:58 Danny’s church practiced intinction, receiving communion by dipping the bread into the cup.

12:24 Danny always gave a clear gospel presentation and invitation before communion and reminded people that communion is for believers.

13:17 When Lee’s first church plant started, it celebrated communion as a separate service on Sunday evenings.

14:30 His church eventually moved communion to Sunday mornings, once a month.

14:46 Lee advises planters on what to say to nonbelievers in the room.

15:50 Danny and Lee share their thoughts on celebrating communion in a small group setting.

16:32 Danny talks about inviting a second person to participate in a baptism.

17:56 Some of Lee’s favorite baptism memories are of baptizing multiple family members at the same time.

0:43 Danny says it’s important for church planters to know ahead of time some of the funds they’re going to need to raise so they can communicate that to their launch team.

1:47 Lee says if your church is portable, one of the first things you’re going to need to purchase is a trailer. He recommends buying one that is at least 20 feet long and has a ramp.

2:35 Danny and Lee advise against putting the church’s logo on the trailer for security reasons.

3:27 If you have a large trailer, you’ll also need a vehicle large enough to pull it.

4:12 Danny says buying a bounce house is a good investment.

4:53 Danny talks about musical equipment. He says to be wary of purchasing another church’s equipment.

5:57 Lee thinks it’s worth spending a little extra money to bring in an audiovisual specialist to give you an estimate on what you need to buy to have quality sound and lighting.

7:02 Danny talks about what musical instruments the church should buy.

8:54 Danny and Lee discuss lighting costs. Are you going to use Facebook Live? Are you going to record your sermons?

9:46 Danny and Lee list some children’s equipment you’ll need.

11:54 You’ll need something to collect people’s tithes and offerings, like buckets or a giving box.

13:04 You’ll also need to think through the ordinances (baptisms, communion) and put some money into that.

13:38 Danny says he’s on the launch team of a church plant that will probably spend $50,000 to $60,000 on sound and lighting equipment.

14:46 Lee and Danny encourage planters to go ahead and step into the next level when purchasing AV equipment.

16:02 Lee says plants launching at a larger level will probably invest $75,000-$100,000. With a smaller launch, you can probably get by with $25,000-$50,000.

16:48 Danny and Lee talk about things you can buy to control the size of a room or cover up unused space.

1:01 Danny says the fear of the unknown is one of the hardest parts of church planting — but it’s also part of the thrill.

1:41 Danny and Lee talk about what their biggest fear was.

2:55 Danny says the lack of resources is a double-edged sword — it is challenging, but it forces you to depend on God.

4:02 Lee says it was tough seeing people leave the church.

5:30 Danny says one of the best parts of church planting for him was being able to start something from scratch.

6:51 Lee found it hard to deal with the "weird" people his church plant attracted.

7:19 Lee talks about the boredom factor he wrestled with during the pre-launch and post-launch phases.

8:39 Lee says one of the best things was seeing God provide in crazy ways (financially, people, opportunities).

9:15 Danny says a highlight for him was the friendships he developed.

10:21 Lee says you have to remember to slow down and celebrate how God is showing up.

11:18 Danny says preaching was always a blessing and a challenge for him.

11:57 Lee encourages planters not to give up. "Stay true to the course of what God has called you to do. He is faithful."

1:04 Danny talks about his church plant renting space from an old Presbyterian church.

2:29 Danny says his church starting meeting on Saturday nights and then moved to Sunday nights because Sunday mornings weren’t available.

3:20 Danny says the church gave them a terrific deal on rent.

4:22 Danny says unchurched people feel more comfortable meeting in a church building.

5:46 Danny talks about a church planter who started meeting in a church’s fellowship area and now has moved to the sanctuary on Sundays.

6:44 Lee says using a local church during the pre-launch phase was helpful.

7:36 Danny talks about two established churches that recently gave their buildings to church plants.

8:45 Lee and Danny shift the conversation to industrial space and storefronts.

9:02 Danny says industrial space can be expensive and parking can be difficult.

10:13 Lee talks about a church that is growing and needs to find a new facility, but it can’t because it’s locked into a long-term lease.

11:34 Lee encourages planters to find some businessmen who are familiar with commercial lease situations to read through the contracts or get help from a commercial real estate agent.

13:08 Lee talks about how he’s never had an office in the church building and discusses off-site office space options.

16:43 Lee recommends keeping your rent under 20% of your overall budget.

1:16 Lee talks about why his first church plant in Arizona chose to meet in a movie theater.

2:11 Lee says that movie theaters are usually willing to rent to churches because Sunday mornings are a dead time for them.

2:24 Lee discusses the benefits meeting in a movie theater provided, including lots of lobby space, good parking and comfortable seating.

2:48 Lee encourages planters to stay away from dollar theaters and theaters that have reclining seats.

3:44 Lee talks about how his church was able to rent out multiple rooms in the theater as the church grew.

4:02 Lee says having a limited amount of time to meet for services was a challenge. The theater charged them double if they went over their allotted time.

4:57 Lee explains how his church plant did children’s ministry in a movie theater.

7:22 Lee says another challenge was getting electricity for running sound systems, instruments and lighting. His church got permission by the movie theater to pay an electrician to come in and run extra power.

7:49 Lee says the theater allowed them to store their equipment inside the building during the week.

8:44 Lee talks about how the church was able to have a good relationship with the theater and its staff.

9:30 Lee discusses how much it cost to rent the theater.

11:23 Danny and Lee talk about how Regal Cinemas has people to work with churches.

12:18 Danny and Lee shift the conversation to talking about schools.

12:49 Lee says if you’re going to go into a school, a high school should be the first one that you talk to.

13:13 Lee talks about how meeting in a large performing arts facility at a high school was actually a hindrance for his church plant.

14:07 Danny discusses some of the challenges his church plant faced while meeting in a school.

15:22 Danny talks about ways to create children’s ministry space in a school.

16:33 An elementary or middle school will probably cost less than a high school. But they usually don’t have as much parking available and don’t have a gymnasium or performing arts facility to meet in.

17:40 Danny explains why it’s becoming more difficult to rent at schools.

18:51 Lee points out that elementary and middle schools are usually tucked away in a community. He recommends finding a place where people naturally drive.

1:11 Danny talks about the process he used to name his church plant.

4:00 Danny discusses how omitting the word "church" from the name caused problems.

5:22 Lee says the name needs to connect to your culture, society and community. "We intentionally put ‘community church’ in our name because we wanted people to know we are part of the community."

7:22 Lee talks about why he choose to keep the same name for his second church plant.

7:55 Danny and Lee discuss the advantages and disadvantages of including the city name in your church name.

9:11 Lee says it’s good to be creative when picking a name, but don’t get too creative. "If your name needs too much explanation behind it, you are losing the opportunity to connect with just a normal person in your community."

10:40 Lee says the name needs to flow well into a logo and a website URL.

10:53 Danny says you should research the area to make sure the name isn’t being used by another church or by a church that no longer exists. 

11:48 Danny and Lee discuss some good reasons for renaming your church.

12:55 Lee and Danny talk about the current trends they see in church names.

14:16 Lee says it comes down to finding a name that your community can naturally understand without a big explanation.

14:53 Lee doesn’t think you need to hire a marketing firm to come up with a name.

15:43 Danny and Lee suggest checking for website availability of the name and if another church has trademarked the name.

1:17 Lee talks about how he and his wife both grew up as a pastor’s kid.

1:59 Lee discusses the pain his parents experienced in ministry and how that affected him.

3:47 Lee encourages pastors to allow their kids to see both the good and the ugly side of ministry.

4:49 Lee talks about how his parents brought him into some of the decisions they were making at their church.

5:10 Lee says he’s carried his parents’ practices over to his kids. "When we decided to move from Arizona to Florida, it was a family decision. We sat down with our kids. We talked to them about what God was doing in our lives, what God was maybe calling us to do and what they thought about that. We prayed together as a family. And when we decided to plant again, we asked them what they thought about it."

6:50 Lee talks about how to know what – and how much – to share with your kids about your church’s problems.

7:51 Lee says his parents never allowed him to see the disunity that existed in the church.

9:43 Lee says it’s OK for us as pastors, and as parents, to admit that we don’t have it all figured out.

10:35 Lee discusses how interacts with his family after a bad day at work.

11:34 Lee says it’s important to allow your kids to see the celebration moments too. "There are benefits to being the pastor’s kid."

12:36 Lee encourages pastors, when they have a speaking engagement, to ask the church to send a note back to their kid(s). "Maybe even a gift card that says, ‘Hey, thanks so much for sharing your dad with us this past weekend. Here’s $20 to McDonald’s. Why don’t you take your dad out for lunch sometime?’"

13:13 Danny says that when he travels, he likes to bring his 10-year-old daughter with him.

15:07 Danny and Lee say it’s OK if your family needs some time away from church on a Sunday.

16:20 Lee says it’s "such a gift" to see his son want to serve at church.

16:32 Lee says we’ve got to guard our kids from people in the church who demand higher expectations of them just because they’re the pastor’s kid.

17:01 Danny warns against connecting your kids’ behavior to your position. Avoid saying things like, "Don’t do that. Don’t you know what a reflection that will be on my position or the church? Because then they’re just tying their behavior to your position, instead of making it, ‘We don’t do that because Jesus doesn’t want us to."

0:59 Danny says his earliest experiences with pastoral care were funerals.

1:50 Danny says in the beginning he said yes to everyone’s requests.

1:59 Danny and Lee say that they prefer funerals to weddings because there is more of an openness to spiritual things at a funeral.

2:45 Danny thinks funerals are great opportunities to minister to people inside your church and to build relationships outside of the church.

3:22 Lee says he didn’t do a lot of funerals the first 3-4 years because his church plant was mostly attracted young families.

4:15 Lee says he got a lot of requests to do weddings. He offered free funerals to anyone in the community, but they had to pay for weddings.

4:33 Lee talks about how much he charged for premarital counseling, the ceremony and the reception.

5:09 Lee says most couples don’t understand the time commitment required by the pastor for weddings and premarital counseling.

6:28 To protect his time with his family, Danny started telling couples that we would do their premarital counseling, rehearsal and ceremony, but he wouldn’t go to the reception.

7:39 Danny says as his church plant grew, multiple pastors were available to do weddings. He says they also commissioned church members to do weddings and premarital counseling.

8:49 Lee says hospital visitations are an excellent opportunity to develop leaders. This is what a small group does; this is why you need to be in a small group.

9:56 Danny says hospital visits only need to be 15-20 minutes.

10:27 Danny recommends bringing someone else with you — an intern, a friend, someone from their small group.

11:04 Lee says even when you’re in a time crunch season, a phone call goes a long way.

11:12 Lee talks about how God used two tough situations in the life of his church plant for good.

1:17 Danny says the culture of church planting and the common characteristics of church planters is to persevere at all costs

2:22 Lee talks about how his first church plant had three grand openings

3:20 Lee identifies three main areas that determine the success of a church plant

4:45 Danny says a relaunch needs to be more than just changing your name, logo and website

5:52 Danny says if you relaunch, it’s really important that you actually stop meeting for Sunday services

6:33 Lee says if you’re not willing to put in the energy and effort into an honest evaluation of why you are where you’re at before you relaunch, you’re basically putting "lipstick on a pig."

6:58 Lee recommends reaching out for help for honest, hard feedback from a coach or a more experienced church planter

7:35 Danny says church planters need to be open the fact that they may or may not be the problem

8:26 Danny says if you’re obedient to God’s call to plant a church, it is not a failure

9:28 Lee reminds us that God cares more about what we are becoming than what we are actually doing

10:02 Lee says what God is doing behind the scenes may be way bigger than I ever thought

11:46 Lee says the church plants that he’s seen relaunch successfully have reached out to somebody that was more experienced and got a coach

12:12 Lee talks about three key areas to look at: the planter’s leadership, the church’s financial sustainability and discipleship

13:50 Danny says there is no magic number or matrix that will help you decide if it’s time to relaunch or to call it quits.

15:14 Lee says the final thing that brings the most clarity is the culture piece. Are we the culture that we set out to become?

15:55 Danny ends the conversation by encouraging those who need to keep going. For others, this may be the end of this season of ministry, but it’s going to be OK.

0:54 Danny talks about his experience with the summer slump at his church plant and what he learned.

2:00 Danny says he realized that while attendance is often down in the summer, it is a prime time to strengthen and grow the church.

2:40 Danny shifted his mentality to "plant in summer, harvest in fall."

3:42 Danny talks about the summertime culture in Milwaukee affected his church plant.

4:50 Lee discusses the challenges the summer heat in Phoenix presented for his church plant.

5:43 Lee says the summer can be a time to build momentum. It's important to address the summer slump before it hits.

6:05 Lee has found the biggest hit to be in giving, not attendance. He gives an example of what to say to your congregation heading into summer.

7:22 Danny says it's important to understand that you have to adjust your communication patterns and rhythms in the summer.

8:16 Danny talks about how to handle volunteers in the summer. Lee says it's a great time to think about development.

9:48 Danny and Lee talk about their preaching schedule in the summer.

10:12 Danny preached on his church's core values during the summer.

10:52 Lee chose a character-building series for June and used July to talk about vision and the fall.

11:17 Lee and Danny recommend thinking through the school calendar when planning your fall launch/big series kickoff.

12:25 Lee says if you even hold your numbers in the summer, you are actually growing.

12:52 Lee ends the podcast by emphasizing the importance of planning.

1:50 Lee says if a church wants to plant a church for a reason other than evangelism, then it shouldn’t do it.

2:30 Danny says that the prerequisite for a church planter isn’t to have the gift of evangelism, but to have a passion and drive for it.

3:44 Lee says it’s important for the sending church to think about its return on investment. Where are you going to see the most fruit?

4:55 Danny discusses how pastors and leadership teams can evaluate if they are evangelistically driven.

6:54 Lee talks about three questions a church can ask itself to help identify if it is evangelistically driven.

8:37 Lee encourages listeners to talk to the leaders at their church and with other pastors about how they’re doing evangelism.

1:50 Danny talks about the benefits and downside of the multisite model.

4:25 Lee shares a question the parent church needs to ask itself when considering multisite.

5:30 Danny says he’s seen more mistakes with multisite than any other model.

7:00 Lee and Danny discuss the death by dignity model.

9:15 Danny talks about the unplanned pregnancy model, when a church is planted because of a church split.

10:55 Lee talks about how churches that think they are too small or young to plant can use the partnering church planting model.

12:53 Lee and Danny discuss the parachute/pioneering model, where a leader recruits a small group of leaders and they go into uncharted territory.

14:24 Lee and Danny talk about the differences between the branching and colonizing models.

1:50 Danny talks about the mistake he made early on at his church plant of being tightfisted with people and how that ended up driving them away.

3:40 Danny says being openhanded with people is a heart position. Before you say yes or no, you need to take some time to have a conversation with people about what's going on in their life and what God might be calling them to.

5:00 Danny: It doesn't mean that you automatically say yes to everything, but at least have the conversation. "We want you where God wants you. And if God wants someone somewhere else ... that is where you want that person."

5:50 Lee discusses what causes a leadership team/board of elders/lead pastor to be reluctant to send people out. "Don't allow fear to dictate the decisions that you make when it comes to the Kingdom of God."

6:40 Lee talks about how a pastor can manipulate the situation to send out people he doesn't want.

7:20 Lee discusses the importance of having agenda value harmony in how people connect to the mission and vision of the new church.

8:20 Danny says sending churches need to do a better job of preparing people who are being sent out.

11:00 Lee talks to church planters who have been given a free "hunting license" by their parent church.

11:35 Lee recommends that church planters host information meetings at the sending church and engage the leadership of the parent church to be at the meetings. Give a platform for the lead pastor of the parent church to talk about why they're excited about this new work.

11:55 Lee talks about the importance of having an application process for people who want to join the new church plant launch team.

13:50 Lee identifies three levels of involvement in a church plant for people coming out of a parent church.

15:30 Lee points out some key questions to ask on the launch team application.

17:10 Lee talks about the type of people he would have fill out an application.

0:55 Lee talks about how to think about multiplication before you even launch.

1:20 Lee says the first step is being intentional about creating vision alignment around why multiplication is important.

1:30 Lee discusses common questions (objections) he’s heard: Don’t we have enough churches already? Why would we plant new churches when there are already churches that are dying and looking to be rehabilitated?

3:40 Danny explains why it’s important to teach sacrifice before you teach multiplication.

4:40 Lee says the reality is you won’t become a multiplying church if you don’t want to; nobody’s going to force it on you.

5:15 Lee talks about three costs of being a multiplying church.

6:35 Danny talks about how long it took for his church’s new sites to become self-sustaining.

8:05 Lee encourages sending churches to decrease the amount of money they’re giving a church plant over time to keep them “hungry” and help them become self-sustaining.

9:30 Danny says that it takes generosity (finances and personnel) to become a multiplying church.

10:30 Lee talks about the time and personnel costs for the sending church.

11:35 Lee encourages churches to set aside a portion of their income to invest in the future new work.

12:50 Danny says he’s seen over and over how God blesses generous churches.

14:10 Lee recaps the episode and says this is just the first of several episodes in this series talking about steps a church can take to become a multiplying church.

0:55 Lee identifies the different facets of this topic (marketing, day-to-day ministry and maximizing volunteers).

1:20 Danny talks about the importance of having a bootstrap mentality and not expecting the best of the best right away.

2:50 Danny lists three areas where it’s easy to overspend and get in trouble (marketing, rent and equipment).

3:50 Lee says planters need to distinguish between what they can offer as a church plant vs. an established church.

4:25 Identify the things you feel like are niche opportunities for you in your community. What are the few things that you have to do really well? You can’t do everything.

5:50 Lee says to keep in mind that anytime you spend less than you make you’re going to be OK.

6:10 Danny shares smaller-scale, low-cost marketing ideas.

8:30 Lee says when resources are limited, it’s not a time to wallow and feel defeated; it’s a time for creativity to rise.

9:20 Danny points out that you’ll never have enough resources to do all that you want to do.

9:50 Don’t forsake generosity or savings even with limited resources.

10:30 Lee says often the vision is a whole lot bigger than the resources; that’s the thing God uses to keep us living by faith. Press forward, don’t be discouraged in that process.

1:10 Danny discusses the entrepreneurial nature of church planters.

3:00 Lee talks about how moving from survival mode to sustainability can lead to a desire to do something else.

5:10 Danny encourages planters to find other outlets to use their entrepreneurial gifts.

7:15 Danny talks about how he was able to find the fulfillment of doing something new while staying in his role at his church plant.

9:00 Lee says it’s normal for a planter to get an itch to do something else.

10:10 Lee talks about how he deciphered if his itch to replant was from the Lord.

10:55 Danny shares a question to ask yourself when a larger church approaches you about leading their church.

12:00 Lee talks about the need to transition well when leaving your church plant.

12:35 Danny says if a planter leaves before the church is in a permanent facility, it will be difficult for the church to survive.

1:05 Danny talks about how long it took for his church plant to make its first hire and what the position was.

3:15 Danny shares the best advice he received about making his first hire and how it played out in his church plant.

5:00 Lee explains why both his church plants decided to hire some key staff members before the grand opening and discusses the advantages and challenges of the decision.

9:20 Lee talks about how he identified candidates for his first hires.

11:40 Lee and Danny discuss the support-raising process for new hires.

15:05 Danny talks about how to know when it’s the right time to make a hire.

16:45 Lee discusses two things he uses as a grid and framework for hiring staff.

18:40 Lee and Danny talk about balancing the tension of hiring staff and using volunteers.

20:15 Lee shares the biggest recommendation he’s given a church planter on the hiring process.

1:25 Danny says he was surprised that the launch team and the other people in his church didn’t share his excitement about adding another service.

4:05 Lee shares that the last two churches he planted started with two services.

5:35 Lee says when you hit 80 percent capacity in one service, it’s time to add a second service.

7:15 Danny talks about one of the biggest fears for a planter when adding a service: losing momentum.

9:00 Danny says it’s important to change the time of both services when adding a service so that everyone has to change.

11:00 Danny and Lee talk about how they let people in their church know they were adding a service. Danny says it’s important to give people time to process the news and explain why you’re doing it. Lee recommends sharing with key leaders before you announce the news to the congregation so that they become spokesmen for the change.

13:00 Lee says children’s ministry leaders need to be brought into the loop far in advance because they will be affected more than any other ministry of the church.

13:30 Four to six weeks before adding a new service, Lee encourages pastors to ask the congregation to volunteer to attend the new service. “Say ‘I need 50 of you right now to commit to going to the 9:30 service,’ and have them raise a hand.”

14:50 Danny warns about giving people “the leftovers” when adding a new service.

16:20 Lee shares how he gave people an incentive to come to the Saturday night service.

16:35 Danny discusses what he loves and hates about Saturday night services as a pastor.

1:05 Marlan talks about what has changed and stayed the same at the assessment center over the years.

2:15 Danny asks Marlan to respond to those who think assessment centers are like a boot camp or an initiation process.

3:45 Marlan shares the qualities that indicate a person is ready to be assessed.

4:55 Marlan discusses why Converge uses a multi-day assessment process.

6:20 Danny asks Marlan how people can know the right time to be assessed.

7:20 Lee asks Marlan if married candidates should bring their spouse to the assessment. Marlan also talks about being assessed if you’re not married.

9:20 Marlan discusses the three outcomes candidates receive at the end of the assessment.

12:10 Marlan shares troubling trends he’s seen in assessment candidates in recent years.

14:30 Marlan talks about one of the craziest things he’s seen at an assessment center.

1:45 Glenn discusses how he went from being a police officer to working in ministry.

4:30 Glenn shares how his work as an officer led to his desire to want to plant a church.

6:30 Glenn talks about how God called him to leave his church plant after 11 years to plant a church in Panama City, Panama.

8:55 Glenn discusses what he learned at his first church plant that was helpful in planting a second time, including the importance of understanding the culture(s).

11:00 Glenn talks about what he learned as an international church planter that has helped in his church planting role for Converge Great Lakes.

12:40 Glenn tells a funny story from his time in Panama City.

14:30 Glenn shares his advice for people who feel they are being called to ministry.

16:35 Glenn talks about getting theological training in the middle of his career.

2:35 Lee discusses his experience planting his first church in an Arizona movie theater in 2009.

6:10 Lee talks about what has been more challenging about planting a second time.

11:00 Lee shares about what has changed in the church planting landscape since he planted the first time.

12:50 Lee discusses the advantages of having planted before.

15:15 Lee talks about an unexpected challenge he faced in his second church plant.

19:45 Lee shares advice for planters thinking about planting for a second time.

20:15 Lee and Danny talk about dealing with the fear that comes with planting for a second time.

1:15 Danny talks about the opportunities and challenges he’s seen with mergers.

3:00 Lee asks Danny if his church plant was ever approached about a merger.

4:55 Lee talks about why he doesn’t like the word “merger.”

6:40 Danny and Lee discuss how the influx of new people from a merger will affect the culture and leadership of your church plant.

8:25 Lee shares his experience of taking over a facility from a dying church.

9:50 Danny and Lee talk about the importance of doing your homework when a church wants to give you a building.

14:15 Danny says it’s important to get everything in writing and make sure you’re dealing with the people who are really in charge.

15:55 Danny and Lee talk about making staffing/leadership decisions after a merger.

19:05 Lee and Danny share the biggest things to keep in mind when considering a merger.

0:50 Danny talks about the shift he’s seen of emphasizing discipleship over evangelism.

1:45 Lee says the church planters who are coming to Converge’s assessment center aren’t as evangelistic as they used to be.

2:30 Danny discusses his personal experience with evangelism.

4:25 Lee talks about how evangelism has to be a driving factor in the church plant.

5:35 Lee and Danny say church planters need to be modeling evangelism in their daily lives.

7:25 Lee discusses how to create a culture of evangelism during the launch phase.

9:45 Lee says it’s important to help our people understand that lost people are not projects: You’re called to love them, and that means even if they reject your Christ.

11:25 Lee talks about helping people in your church understand their role in evangelism – it’s not just the pastor’s responsibility; we’re all commissioned by Jesus to go and make disciples.

14:25 Danny and Lee discuss the importance of planning intentional times when people will be able to respond to the gospel message (communion, baptisms, special Sundays).

17:00 Lee and Danny talk about what to say when people complain about the gospel being presented too frequently or about the way people are being asked to respond (“Will you say yes to following Jesus?”).

18:25 Lee shares his final thoughts: As a pastor and planter, you have to be doing evangelism. You have to be out in the community, building relationships and letting people know who you are and why you’re there.

Share the gospel and share your stories, including your failures. Create the expectation that everyone needs to share their faith.

1:00 Danny talks about things he’s learned about time management over the years.

3:40 Lee shares five questions he asks himself when evaluating his schedule.

5:35 Danny discusses the importance of understanding the rhythms of stress and rest.

7:05 Lee and Danny talk about setting boundaries.

10:45 Lee discusses the importance of planning time off in your calendar.

12:50 Lee talks about two books that he’s found to be helpful.

13:20 Danny and Lee encourage listeners not to fall into the trap of “the tyranny of the urgent.”

0:55 Lee and Danny talk about the different capital campaigns they led at their churches.

3:10 Danny shares his thoughts on campaign lengths.

7:45 Danny says that after going through a campaign most of his fears weren’t realized.

9:20 Danny discusses his opinion on whether to hire a consultant.

10:55 Danny talks about what makes a good consultant.

12:05 Lee says planters shouldn’t be afraid to lead a capital campaign without a consultant.

13:50 Danny talks about how soon a church planter should think about starting his first capital campaign.

14:40 Lee ends the episode by encouraging listeners: When hiring a capital campaign consultant company make sure they fit your culture and understand your context.