Upsample with Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff

Sora Shutdown, Spotify Profile Protection, AI Can't Write

Fri, 27 Mar 2026 05:45:00 -0700

(0:00) Toronto Blue Jays opening day

(2:31) Will's physical media level-up

(4:59) OpenAI shuts down Sora

(17:35) Spotify Artist Profile Protection

(30:29) Jasmine Sun on AI and creative writing

(50:44) Triple recommendations

Carson recs:

Will recs:

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Getting Taken Down is Cool & SOCAN vs. AI

Fri, 27 Feb 2026 05:00:00 -0700

let's talk about fully automated slopitalism and the threats to performance rights organizations & songwriters

No episode 2 weeks from now (Mar. 13), we return later in March.

(0:00) Music MCP (which got taken down)

(8:40) SOCAN's AI policies & advocacy

(36:23) "Pre-deplatformed" cool content

(50:27) Dave King of The Bad Plus' rant

(54:54) Recommendations

Darren Hemmings linking to Music MCP at Network Notes
SOCAN "Stop Unlicensed AI Training" petition
Ryan Broderick's story at Garbage Day: "The only taboo left is copyright infringement: the future of media is pre-deplatformed"
Nate Chinen's interview at The Gig with Dave King and Reid Anderson of The Bad Plus

Recs: Will - watch Sun Ra: Do The Impossible on PBS (if you can) and listen to the music of Sun Ra and his Arkestra,

Carson - listen to The Call by Bellbird

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Post-American Internet

Fri, 30 Jan 2026 05:00:00 -0700

"Move fast and break... Kings!" That's what Cory Doctorow calls for in his recent talk. We discuss a potential "post-American internet" future per that talk, then we weave in two related stories: Anna's Archive scraping virtually all of Spotify for torrenting, and Pitchfork launching a paywall.

No episode 2 weeks from now (Feb. 13), we return later in February.

(0:00) Intro

(2:15) Cory Doctorow talk

(38:35) Anna's Archive scrapes Spotify

(53:17) Pitchfork paywall

(1:02:17) Recommendations

Legal complaint against Anna's Archive here.

Recs: Will - listen to Catalog Club podcast series by Steven Hyden at Evil Speakers on Substack, which covered Lucinda Williams in January.

Carson - read Richard Powers novels, including The Echo Maker which Carson gave to Will.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Now They’re Emailing Our Friends

Fri, 16 Jan 2026 05:00:00 -0700

It's Year 2 of Upsample starting now, and the leading AI music company Suno has already intruded into Will's day-to-day in the local scene. What else is in store?

(0:00) Intro & Self-Taught Legend

(4:27) Hooks by Suno

(12:50) Suno Partner Program

(32:06) Bandcamp wants to ban AI music

(45:35) Recommendations

Recs: Will - listen to Julian Lage: "Opal", "Talking Drum", and "Night Shade" 3 singles from album Scenes from Above coming next week on Blue Note with John Medeski, Jorge Roeder, & Kenny Wollesen.

Carson - listen to Blizzard by Dove Ellis.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Finally, Filterworld! Year-Ender at Carson's

Thu, 18 Dec 2025 05:00:00 -0700

3 days after we published the Side Door episode, a tragic incident injured a loved one of someone from the Side Door community. There's a GoFundMe that the community organized to support them through the hospitalization and recovery.

We're back at Carson's house to discuss a book that has influenced our show's entire first year: Filterworld by Kyle Chayka. Stick around for when we look back at all our recommendations across the first 25 episodes and highlight some of them. See you in 2026!

(0:00) Upsample Wrapped

(11:24) Filterworld

(57:27) Recommendations we made in 2025

(1:08:54) Seasonal wishes & outro

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Hide From Wrapped Season With Us

Fri, 05 Dec 2025 05:00:00 -0700

After we rage against Spotify Wrapped and follow up on our previous episodes, Carson unpacks three recent stories related by the theme of AI blowback: a maximally high-effort and human album, an anti-AI revival of Vine, and a platform that might get enshittified by its buyer.

(0:00) Intro

(4:11) Does Will do year-end lists?

(5:57) Canada Music Fund $16 million top-up update

(7:42) Side Door correction & updates

(11:38) AI blowback?

(16:59) Lux by Rosalía

(31:34) Jack Dorsey-backed DiVine: bring back Vine?

(53:50) Spotify acquires WhoSampled

(1:03:41) Recommendations

Recs: Will - listen to Strays by Way Ahead Trio, Carson - listen to What of Our Nature by Haley Heynderickx & Max García Conover

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Side Door Closing

Fri, 21 Nov 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We discuss the story of the Canadian live show platform "where every space is a venue" called Side Door, from the company's founding to its coming end, as announced on Nov. 4.

Correction: at about 53 minutes, we say Arlene invested out of Dragon's Den, and we later say that Side Door didn't raise again afterward. Per Simpson's comment on the YouTube version of this episode (Nov. 25), it fell through like many of those DD offers do, but Side Door did raise once more afterward: "Arlene did not actually invest...that's a long story, but just to say Dragon's Den is entertainment first. We did get further investment after this from BDC instead."

(0:00) The World Series, the Grey Cup, & JP Saxe sang the anthem

(3:28) Side Door Access is winding down on Dec. 31

(10:53) Act I: founding to pandemic

(32:08) Act II: covid momentum

(55:13) Act III: end of the runway

(1:04:01) Aftermath & discussion

(1:17:59) Outro & recommendations

Recommendations:

Will – Check out the New Feeling Co-Op of Canadian music journalists

Carson – listen to Bach: Sonatas and Partitas, Vol. 2 by Chris Thile

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Aura, Agitslop Fear-Monsters, & Canada Music Fund

Wed, 29 Oct 2025 06:00:00 -0700

Carson declines to jinx the Jays. Then it's time to lock in for one of our most theoretical conversations yet, in response to the Never Post podcast episode titled "A.I. and New American Fascism". Will chases it with a Canadian story about the possible non-renewal of a $16 million boost to federal music funding.

Correction: at pretty much the very end, I say Universal is the majority shareholder in NTS. They're not; they're merely the largest shareholder.

Scheduling note: the next Upsample will drop three weeks from now instead of two.

(4:07) Never Post episode overview

(14:18) Walter Benjamin

(21:13) Sora, OpenAI, and agitslop machines

(28:32) Hackers, free marketeers, and their fascist fear-monsters

(36:01) A CD with Aura - because you can't see it on the audio pod, it's Brighton Train by Madeleine Elkins (with Will on bass and Kevin Romain on drums) and it's out now!

(38:49) How does PragerU fit into this?!

(44:56) Activism around the Canada Music Fund and Budget 2025

(54:19) Will goes full Ezra

(58:24) Recommendations: Will - listen to radio show Self Soothe by Margeaux on NTS, Carson - listen to album Nested in Tangles by Hannah Frances

Canada Music Fund links:

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Co-Ops, Labour, Touring, & Streaming w/ Madelyn Read

Wed, 15 Oct 2025 05:00:00 -0700

Madelyn Read (musician, songwriter, and BC Co-Op Association Community Engagement & Education Manager) is our first-ever guest!

(01:07) Introducing Madelyn and her work
(05:26) VSO musicians strike update (it's over)
(10:33) How Madelyn set up her Europe tour in 2024
(21:54) Talking about streaming
(26:44) Leaving Spotify
(31:14) Madelyn's nuanced disagreement with us
(32:45) Madelyn and Will's history at the Ampled co-op
(37:26) The Subvert co-op as a Bandcamp competitor
(42:29) Madelyn enables Sports Upsample!
(45:26) What happened at the end of Ampled
(50:23) Co-op considerations for Subvert's future
(55:04) Recommendations

Links:

Recs:

Madelyn - listen to Wild and Clear and Blue by I’m With Her, Chandler by Wyatt C. Louis, Good Buddy by Fontine.
Carson - listen to Getting Killed by Geese.
Will - read Chokepoint Capitalism (2022) by Rebecca Giblin & Cory Doctorow

FIND US:

Madelyn

Bandcamp: https://madelynread.bandcamp.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/madelynread/

Will

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/
Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/
Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

VSO Musicians Strike

Thu, 25 Sep 2025 05:00:00 -0700

Update from later today: VSO musicians have begun their strike.

After Will vents about the Canadian Football League controversy, we discuss a potential strike by the Vancouver Symphony Orchestra (VSO) musicians (4:32), purported salary discrepancies (17:52), and we catch a brief response by the VSO in real time while recording (23:22).

We jumped the usual schedule to talk about this news, so the next episode of Upsample will drop three weeks from now.

Recs: Will - watch, listen to, read anything made between 1941 and 1956, inspired by Ted Gioia "Is Mid-20th Century American Culture Getting Erased?"

Carson - listen to Bleeds by Wednesday

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

People Love the Dead Internet

Fri, 19 Sep 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We begin by jinxing the Jays. Then we get into the KARRA story “I invested $100,000 to create my album & Spotify deleted it” & part 2 (2:24), are labels bad if they just use DistroKid? (19:49) and is this gonna make us all leave finally? (35:31)

Recs: Carson - listen to God's Gonna Give You a Million Dollars by Shallowater, Will - watch Pablo Torre Finds Out⁩

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Challengers to Bandcamp's Throne

Fri, 05 Sep 2025 05:45:00 -0700

Be careful out there or you'll get yelled at by shirtless dudes in Pontiacs! Will has a music library app now on his desktop, and Carson needs a new website (02:10), Bandcamp launches Clubs (08:38), EVEN is a hip-hop-coded post-Bandcamp platform (25:35), we check out the familiar mission of another challenger called Ampwall (31:12), and some people really hate Stripe (46:19).

Bandcamp Clubs: https://bandcamp.com/about_clubs
EVEN: https://get.even.biz/
Ampwall: https://ampwall.com/

Recs: Carson - The Bear season 4, Will - TANG! by Steph Wall

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

No Fees, No Saxe, No 'AI Music Night'

Fri, 22 Aug 2025 05:00:00 -0700

(0:00) Will LOVES that you don't read his emails

(1:52) Subvert turned down $200K and want to launch with no fees

(18:15) "AI Music Night" in Texas

(27:26) We need skills to make the platform internet suck less

(38:28) Which tech move is Will going to make first?

(48:19) JP Saxe's tour got canceled

(1:05:18) Recommendations

Subvert 0% Platform Fees links:

AI Music Night links:

JP Saxe tour situation links:

Recs: Will - album Different Strokes for Different Folks by Charlie Hunter & Ella Feingold, Carson - album Baby by Dijon

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Who Funds Your Bumbershoot? Vancouver City Council Don't Pass Our Agenda

Fri, 08 Aug 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We have closure on The Velvet Sundown! Then we get into the very creative ticket pricing, or lack thereof, at Bumbershoot in Seattle and the Guelph Jazz Festival in Ontario (11:43), and a Vancouver city council motion that put several of our favourite ideas on the table, but didn't pass (27:42).

Recs: Carson - Tyler Childers album Snipe Hunter, Will - Brighde Chaimbeul album Sunwise

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Our First Look at Subvert

Fri, 25 Jul 2025 05:00:00 -0700

After clearing the WeTransfer air, we get into subvert.fm, a collectively owned music commerce platform in development. The Subvert team calls the platform a direct alternative to Bandcamp. We discuss the concept of Subvert and who founded it (11:17), Bandcamp controversies: being sold twice and union drama (15:08), Carson vs. Will on enshittification (29:46), Subvert's structure and current status (38:04), and how we feel about it + are we signing up as artists? (49:46)

Recs: Will - podcast episode All One Song :: Jeff Parker on “The Needle and the Damage Done” by Aquarium Drunkard, Carson - album Swag by Justin Bieber

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

It's Time to Leave Spotify, Right?

Fri, 11 Jul 2025 05:00:00 -0700

The story around Daniel Ek's military tech investments has reached a fever pitch, and nothing about it is likely to improve. Is now finally the time to quit using Spotify? We dive into Deerhoof's announcement about pulling their music from Spotify (4:03), our feelings about what to do as an artist (18:30), and what to do as a user (36:57).

Recs: Will - Without A Stage: LA's Independent Jazz Scene directed by Michael DiPietro by The Terrarium on YouTube , Carson - Andor season 2

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Granville Timbaland

Fri, 04 Jul 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We're back from going to festivals! We kick it off in urban affairs with "The Uncertain Future of Granville Island" by Uytae Lee on the YouTube channel About Here (2:23), then swing into AI as Carson shares the Timbaland music training/generating controversy (24:31) and Will gets into The Velvet Sundown, an accelerationist mix of AI-generated everything + bot playlist marketing (47:09).

Timbaland links:

“Timbaland’s AI music project is a ghost in a misguided machine” by Sheldon Pearce for NPR
Zarah Scully claims Timbaland trained Suno using her voice
YouTube video: Curtiss King interviews Zarah Scully

Velvet Sundown links:

"The Velvet Sundown are a seemingly AI-generated band with 325k Spotify listeners" by Stuart Dredge for Music Ally
Benn Jordan’s IG post claiming Velvet Sundown are 100% AI gen. Rick Beato agrees
They are supposedly tweeting

Recs: Carson - album Tether by Annahstasia, Will - album Gadabout Season by Brandee Younger

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Rhythm Changes’ 5th Birthday! In-Person at Carson’s

Fri, 20 Jun 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We hang at Carson’s house to celebrate 5 years of Will’s music website Rhythm Changes!

(0:00) Intro

(2:28) The very beginning of RC in the summer of 2020 with 50 email sign-ups,

(7:11) “The worst gig of my life” story and reuniting with David Blake,

(15:50) Is vancouverjazz dot-com lost forever?

(20:04) The curse of always being The Podcast Guy,

(23:29) Times that Will touched a nerve with subjects?

(28:35) Caity Gyorgy and 'never write alone',

(32:59) Why Will didn't cover the scene's most controversial story,

(42:38) How the 2021 heatwave, RC’s failed first jazzfest, and Thad Bailey-Mai's set at Ocean Artworks led to Will meeting Tim Reinert before Tim started presenting shows,

(54:26) The tech stack at RC,

(1:01:10) Why Will replies to over 80% of music submissions,

(1:02:31) Why the Infidels Jazz t-shirt is the most meaningful piece of clothing he owns.

Recs: Will - album Ce qui tourne dans l’air by l’Oumigmag, Carson - album All Ashore by Punch Brothers

We’ll take a short break now and return in July.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Wanna Pay More Tax, Yes or No?

Fri, 13 Jun 2025 05:00:00 -0700

Shout-out to our friends in The Shorties! We then get into a story called "Why it’s Time to Support Grassroots Venues with a £1 Ticket Levy" by Dan McCarthy in The Quietus (5:09), an out-of-nowhere but relevant reference to the 2015 vote on our local transit authority in Vancouver (21:41), and the video "Why EVERY Artist should be on YouTube" by Jon Talks Beats (26:55).

Recs: Will - album Sancocho Trifásico by Empanadas Ilegales, Carson - album Caroline 2 by Caroline

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Is Being an Artist "Labour"?

Fri, 06 Jun 2025 05:00:00 -0700

After Will admits to giving Meta his money again, we get into a big hairy question: what is the meaning of ‘labour’ we use in the arts (03:14)? Anti-streaming labour activism (14:21), the labour economics of playing gigs and small local shows (21:38), a detour into Vancouver venues closing (32:46), the Cultural Land Trust (38:10), and which things that an artist does are actually labour? (49:41)

Recs: Carson - album 2 by Foxwarren, Will - Canadian Football League season opening weekend

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

This Can't Be Cake

Fri, 30 May 2025 05:00:00 -0700

(0:00) Will has a camera!

(3:07) "'A Billion Streams and No Fans': Inside a $10 Million AI Music Fraud Case", by Kate Knibbs of WIRED

(17:24) Spotify tracks on the wrong artist profiles

(37:59) What happens when the AI-gen floodgates burst?

(44:27) Is Will being too naive about AI videos?

(52:52) Recommendations

We reference Search Engine's podcast episode "The Russian Cake Switcheroo" and the Anthony Fantano video "Massive Problem on Spotify" . The music project from the WIRED story is here.

Recs: Carson - setting up your own music server at home, Will - Dialectic podcast hosted by Jackson Dahl with guest Alex Danco, start at 59:00 for music scene discussion

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

7 Studio Sketches

Fri, 16 May 2025 05:00:00 -0700

(0:00) Will dreams of his Brentwood show & advertiser bucks

(05:47) Feature on studio owners written by Nathan Caddell in the Georgia Straight

(32:12) André 3000's 7 Piano Sketches project

(53:50) Recommendations

Recs: Will - Giacomo Turra scandal & Adam Neely "The Ethics of Fake Guitar", Carson - album Under Tangled Silence by Djrum

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

"Monthly Listeners" Sucks

Fri, 09 May 2025 05:00:00 -0700

Spotify's favourite metric? We don't love it. We can't even guess our own monthly listener figures!

(0:00) Will has the notebook out to plan his jazzfest

(2:37) The monthly listener figure on Spotify

(47:47) A Rhythm Changes SEO digression

(50:34) "What number should we look at instead?"

(55:50) Recommendations

Recs: Carson - Blue Prince, Will - 2025 NHL playoffs (Leafs, Oilers, Jets)

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

JazzMemes vs. Patrick Bartley: AI images

Fri, 02 May 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We discuss a controversial, but relatively tame and annoying online jazz battle: Patrick Bartley’s #BoycottAI vs. JazzMemes' Chase Maddox with the blog post "There's no 'AI' in Art" on AI-generated images. Was 'slop' invented in November 2022, does the fate of art itself hang in the balance, and what else can we do?

(0:00) Reacting to our show being out in the world

(1:36) Bon Iver

(5:55) AI finally lands in the jazz world

(10:48) Patrick Bartley & JazzMemes

(32:24) Our views on the AI issues

(53:54) Recommendations and a big anniversary for Carson

Recs: Carson - album Uhlmann Johnson Wilkes, Will - Venus Theory YouTube video "The Future of Music is Noise"

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Launch episode! Liz Pelly Mood Machine book

Fri, 25 Apr 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We’re live! To celebrate, we get into the topic that brought us together for the idea of this podcast in the first place: Liz Pelly’s book Mood Machine: The Rise of Spotify and the Costs of the Perfect Playlist.

(0:00) We have a name

(1:50) Liz Pelly's Mood Machine

(1:09:57) Recommendations

Recs: Carson - artist Queralt Lahoz, Will - Land & Lore YouTube channel videos on the Vancouver Stock Exchange

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Streaming Level-Set, Living Wage for Musicians Act

Sat, 19 Apr 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We empty our thoughts about streaming and the labour economy of music today, in anticipation of the next episode on which we'll launch this podcast. Is it even worth it for a small indie artist to distribute on streaming? We cover the question of per-stream payouts, the UMAW and the push for a Penny Per Stream, whether or not DIY artists would make more money today or in 2001, and more.

Correction: at 24:41 we share an anecdote about streaming Kenny Wheeler's music around the time of his passing. Wheeler died on September 18, 2014, and Spotify launched in Canada on September 30, 2014. That means our anecdote is probably off-base, but we still think the scenario is relevant to the episode.

(0:00) Will's grievances about "promotional partnerships"

(11:29) The streaming discourse

(1:01:58) The Living Wage for Musicians Act of 2024

(1:29:47) Recommendations

Recs: Carson - album Slump by Improvement Movement, Will - book Bedroom Rapper by Rollie Pemberton aka: Cadence Weapon

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Careerism

Fri, 11 Apr 2025 05:00:00 -0700

How the heck did we end up on our musical and non-musical career paths? Is there a rise and fall of careerism in music? We uncover stories from our random walks through school and work so far.

(0:00) Intro

(3:39) Our early years

(15:39) University

(27:31) Covid

(39:27) The big breaks that led to our current careers

(59:21) Discussion of career messaging that we get

(1:16:59) The first-ever recommendations!

Recs: Carson - Kyle Chayka One Thing newsletter, Will: the 2025 Formula One season

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

Big Things Coming / Strong Music Scenes

Fri, 04 Apr 2025 05:00:00 -0700

We revisit each of our main previous think-pieces: Carson's “Big Things Coming” at Rhythm Changes published in 2024 and Will’s episode of The Strong Towns Podcast recorded in April 2022, alongside his writing about Strong Towns themes at Rhythm Changes.

(0:00) Intro

(4:36) Big Things Coming

(39:26) Strong Towns, the writing, & the podcast

(51:05) Themes for music scenes from Strong Towns

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.

The iPod Series by Digging the Greats

Fri, 28 Mar 2025 05:00:00 -0700

In the first-ever episode of the show, we discuss Brandon Shaw’s iPod series of videos from his YouTube channel called Digging The Greats. Find it starting here at part 1 of 4.

FIND US:

Will

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@williamchernoff/

-Rhythm Changes: https://www.rhythmchanges.ca/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/williamchernoff/

Carson

-YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ctworow/

-Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/ctworow.bsky.social/

-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ctworow/

Hosted by Carson Tworow & Will Chernoff. Edited and mixed by Will Chernoff. A Chernoff Music podcast. Theme music by Carson Tworow.