Dante complicates his ending of PURGATORIO with notes about his own dark mind and the incomplete work of this second part of his masterpiece COMEDY.

At the same time, we're ready for the stars.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the final passage of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:22] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 124 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:26] Dante, ever the medieval poet, no matter how modern we try to make him.

[05:28] The final address to the reader in PURGATORIO and the tricky question of the "woven bridle."

[10:58] Matelda, apparently doing what she's always done . . . which only makes her character more complex.

[12:49] The threat to memory, the threat to COMEDY as a whole.

[15:23] Four hopeful notes that conclude PURGATORIO.

[17:55] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, lines 124 - 145.

And it gets more curious as we discover rivers named and then renamed before we come to the most difficult naming of them all: Matelda, the fair lady who has been with us since PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII.

We'll talk cosmology, geography, and even poetic rhyme sequences before we turn to the thorny question of exactly who Matelda is.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I offer you lots of answers without giving any final solution to this most enigmatic figure.

Please consider underwriting this work with a one-time contribution or a small monthly stipend which you can set up at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:26] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 103 - 123. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:25] Cosmological references that help set (and even bookend) PURGATORIO.

[06:24] Stopping the procession at a dark, frigid spot (somehow in Eden!).

[08:56] The Tigris and Euphrates rivers: how and why?

[14:27] A beautiful rhyme sequence that encodes the fall into Eden.

[17:10] Matelda: the difficult and long-standing interpretive questions about who this fair lady is.

[31:06] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, lines 103 - 123.

She, on the other hand, launches into her final condemnation: the school he followed was too debased to capture the truths she has in hand.

But she doesn't end there. She also promises greater clarity ahead. Thank goodness!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the conclusion of her discourse and discover the ways Dante may be signaling us that the rational mind is not enough to understand theological truths.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 79 - 102. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me about this passage, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:15] Questions about brain impressions, perhaps derived from the figurae of Joachim da Fiore.

[09:22] Beatrice's condemnation of the school Dante followed . . . and the questions about which school does she mean.

[17:38] The question of whether Dante fully experiences Purgatory.

[21:02] The hope of greater clarity ahead.

[22:57] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, lines 79 - 102.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the final images of her speech and discover its larger, structural details . . . which point us directly ahead to PARADISO.

Consider defraying the many costs of this podcast with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend by using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:11] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 61 - 78. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this episode, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:03] Fun calculations to discover how long Adam (and Eve) stayed in Limbo.

[07:52] Beatrice's assertions about the writing and reading of texts.

[13:33] References to the river Elsa and to Pyramus.

[17:10] A badly mixed metaphor that leads into questions of interiority.

[21:14] Rereading all of Beatrice's final monologue in PURGATORIO: XXXIII: 31 - 78.

[23:49] Four structural notes on this monologue.

This passage falls in the middle of her long monologue in the last canto of PURGATORIO and it forms the fulcrum that turns us from the apocalyptic vision to something much closer to Dante's own concerns: the craft of writing.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we tease out the difficulties in this notoriously challenging passage at the end of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:59] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 46 - 60. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:24] The obscurity as the point.

[07:02] Themis and the Sphinx, early human riddles.

[10:02] Dante's well-intended mistake about the Naiads.

[13:41] Beatrice's theory of Dante's craft.

[15:59] The classical to the Christian: the dominant move in INFERNO and PURGATORIO.

[17:35] A twice-robbed tree--but how?

[19:50] The tree for God's sole use.

[21:58] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, lines 46 - 60.

Beatrice's vision is the capstone of PURGATORIO and prepares us for the elliptical and stylized poetry to come in PARADISO, just ahead of us. It's a test to see whether we can make it. Don't worry: We will!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin our final walk across one of the most difficult passages in PURGATORIO. Seven hundred years of commentary hasn't come to any agreement on these lines. Why should we?

To keep this podcast afloat, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend to underwrite its many fees. You can do so at this PayPal link.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:43] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 25 - 45. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by a comment on this episode, please find it on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:18] A reminder: the rigid and highly stylized manner code in the Middle Ages.

[08:46] Beatrice's redefinition of the terms: wakefulness rather than walking, the chariot as a vessel, the dragon as a serpent (from Eden?), and the chariot's possible, full destruction.

[14:18] A translation problem: the possible sop of bread. And difficult interpretations: God's vendetta and a future heir.

[18:30] Seven hundred years of commentary on the tough problem of "five hundred ten and five--God's messenger."

[27:42] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, lines 25 - 45.

A relatively easy passage begins the final canto of PURGATORIO, perhaps a breather before the much more difficult material that will make up the bulk of the last canto of PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we walk with Beatrice, Dante, the seven ladies, the lady who tends Eden, and Statius. They're a final parade to wrap up this second canticle of COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:26] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, Lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:31] Possibly, a simple interlude between much more difficult passages.

[04:58] The Latin quotation from Psalm 78/79 that opens the final canto of PURGATORIO.

[09:19] Beatrice's Latin quotation from the Gospel of John as Dante fuses Mary and Jesus into her character.

[16:46] Beatrice's parade and the question of her nine steps.

[21:53] Beatrice, Dante's new guide across the known universe.

[26:51] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXIII, lines 1- 24.

In this episode, let's turn to the much thornier issue of what it all means. A consensus has developed over the seven hundred years of commentary. That reading (or interpretation) now dominates the Anglo-American, rationalist outlooks on the vision.

But might there be more? And might that reading be prone to mistakes or gaffes it cannot accommodate?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the second of two episodes on the complicated vision of the apocalypse that ends PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII.

To support this work, consider underwriting its many fees with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend. You can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:38] Once again, my English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, lines 109 - 160. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:28] The now-standard interpretation of the vision as a sweet of Christian church history up until Dante's day and the so-called "Avignon captivity" of the papacy.

[13:10] Questions and problems that arise in the standard interpretation. These may show us that the vision is more layered than a rationalist interpretation would consider.

[16:28] Two external sources that may impinge on this vision: the prophecy of Daniel 7:7 and the visionary writings of the Radical Franciscans.

[19:27] My reading of the vision as the collapse of good governance following the departure of the proper balance of church and state.

[21:47] Two final questions: 1) Does Dante cause the collapse of the vision? And 2) should the vision be interpreted in such a rational, one-for-one way?

In seven vignettes, Dante witnesses some chaotic and catastrophic collapse of the chariot and even one of the original trees of Eden.

But all is not lost. Beatrice is on the scene. And Dante himself participates in this vision, seemingly instigating a new ending to what had become a disaster.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the first of two episodes on the grand apocalypse of Eden in PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII.

To support this work, please consider a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift to help cover the many fees associated with this podcast. You can donate at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:37] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, Lines 109 - 180. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:28] Thoughts on the almost surreal strangeness of the vision as it moves from the natural world to the monstrous.

[08:59] The structure of the vision: seven vignettes--five in six-line segments; the first and last scenes, longer.

[18:34] Echoes in the vision to other moments in COMEDY: eagles, a vixen, dragons, a prostitute, and giants.

[23:12] Biblical echoes from the Apocalypse of St. John at the end of Dante's vision.

[25:03] Two outside actors who enter the vision and fundamentally change it.

Although we can't hope to cover this subject in depth, we might be able to see some of its reflections in COMEDY so far, as well as in the complex and even contradictory characterization of Beatrice in COMEDY.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take an all too quick side quest into the question of women in the high middle ages.

To help support this podcast by underwriting its many fees, please consider a small monthly stipend or a one-time donation using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:40] The largest grouping of women in COMEDY does not bode well for Dante . . . except a women who lies ahead of us.

[06:01] The various roles and positions women could hold in the middle ages, at least according to a tract/book written in Dante's lifetime.

[09:48] The damning problem: Women cannot be citizens.

[13:31] The church's role in the growing restrictions on women . . . and the ways they subverted those religious restrictions.

[17:50] Beatrice's role v. the Virgin's growing veneration.

Meanwhile, we readers are equally panicked . . . or at least de-centered, as we try to make sense of complicated similes and oblique symbolic meanings. COMEDY is getting more complex by the line. It's a game of interpretation we've been preparing to play since INFERNO, Canto I.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the passage just before the giant apocalyptic vision of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII.

To underwrite the many fees for this work, consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:21] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, Lines 70 - 108. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:53] Four (or maybe five) interwoven Biblical references in the opening twelve lines of this passage (or the opening four tercets).

[13:25] The interweaving of textuality to de-center the reader by pushing meaning further into mystery.

[15:52] Dante's awakening to panic and then obeisance.

[19:43] The complex meaning of Beatrice's changed position under the tree.

[25:10] Dante's Roman hopes for heaven.

[26:47] A flourish of the medieval high rhetorical style at the end of the passage.

[28:53] Writing as awakening and return.

[31:23] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, lines 70 - 108.

We're descending into the murk of mystery with new songs that can't be defined, with allegories that are becoming increasingly opaque, and even with classical references that seem somehow out of place in the overall arch of the glorious parade.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin to approach the strange and incomprehensible mysteries that lie at the end of the second canticle of COMEDY.

To support this work, consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:24] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, Lines 49 - 69. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me with a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:32] A correction perhaps: "Adam" may have been a murmured reassessment of the misogyny in the text.

[04:55] The pole, the chariot, and the tree: complicated translation problems.

[07:15] The pole as the cross or perhaps the ties of good human governance.

[11:49] The changing seasons as the tree regenerates.

[13:26] The ambiguous symbolism of purple.

[15:41] The unknown new song, a further mystery in the passage.

[18:48] A tense and perhaps off-pitch reference to Ovid.

[22:27] A knock against representative art before the apocalyptic vision just ahead.

[24:18] Rereading the text: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, lines 49 - 69.

Dante's Garden of Eden is a place where the games of interpretation kick into high gear. Nothing is what it seems . . . yet what it is is a matter of much debate.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this increasingly complex passage on our way to the final apocalyptic vision of PURGATORIO.

To help support this work with a one-time donation or a very small on-going stipend, please consider using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:04] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, Lines 28 - 48. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:04] Statius, both physically and thematically in the passage.

[05:55] Adam and Eve, with notes toward the theological fall of mankind.

[09:19] The stripped tree in the Garden of Eden . . . but which tree?

[14:49] The griffin, becoming a more difficult allegory with his one and only line in COMEDY.

[21:06] Beatrice and her (complex) descent from the chariot/cart.

[25:57] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, lines 28 - 48.

But what is he doing wrong? And why does the entire parade of revelation go into retreat? What indeed does that griffin symbolize? And how did we get from the intensely personal experience of Dante's confession and contrition to this much more global view of the allegories on the march?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin to walk slowly through one of the most complex cantos (and certainly the longest canto) in all of COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:17] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, Lines 1 - 27. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me about this canto, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:31] A brief introduction to PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII.

[05:19] Notes for the first nine lines (or three tercets) of the canto.

[10:40] Dante's forgotten failings and Beatrice's on-going attraction.

[12:04] Dante's intense gaze . . . but for or at what?

[16:23] Beatrice and the problem of the "lesser thing" of revelation.

[21:28] The parade of revelation (or of the church militant) in retreat with its "precious cargo."

[25:01] The griffin's feathers, which prompt further questions about the griffin's allegorical meaning.

[28:08] Bridging the personal and the universal.

[31:04] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXII, lines 1- 27.

I'll read my rough English translation of the cantos. I'll finesse these more when we take the cantos apart passage by passage.

For now, just sit back and listen to the narrative sweep of the final two cantos of PURGATORIO, truly the climax of the canticle.

[01:43] A read-through of my loose translation of PURGATORIO, Cantos XXXII and XXIII.

Neither Dante nor Beatrice speak at their close meeting. Instead, the women around the chariot beg Beatrice to reveal her second, hidden beauty: her mouth.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the complex symbolism in this passage. We'll also take on its textual difficulties: a Biblical allusion that has been muddled in commentary, a lost word that's hard to translate, and a question of quotation marks in a medieval manuscript.

To support this work, consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend by using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:26] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 127 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:11] Textual problems in the first six lines (XXXI: 127 - 132)--a muddled Biblical reference, a moral question of virtues, and a word that's hard to translate.

[07:49] Beatrice's turning and the coming revelation of her mouth.

[10:57] A difficult conclusion to Canto XXXI: Who says these complicated lines that use the informal "you"?

[16:59] Forgetting and remembering your former works to create something new.

[23:10] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 127 - 145.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore both Beatrice (particularly her emerald eyes) and this dual-natured beast that seems to become more difficult to interpret with its every move in the poem.

To support this podcast, consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend through this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:19] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, Lines 112 - 126. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:44] Beatrice has moved . . . but where?

[05:09] With her emerald eyes, Beatrice and Dante finally escape the Francesca episode.

[09:15] Dante is the Orpheus who can look into the eyes of his Eurydice.

[10:49] Here are at least two additional interpretations for the griffin.

[13:58] Beatrice's eyes are the methodology of revelation (and mystery).

[16:41] The passage drops the first hint about Jesus' transfiguration.

[18:50] Reflection is transfiguring, as in the craft of poetry.

[19:34] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 112 - 126.

This scene is deeply symbolic and allegorical . . . although it raises many more questions than it answers. In fact, it seems to want to leave many things open-ended, a cue that Dante wants us in the poem, working on solutions to the many puzzles he has set.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we see the pilgrim Dante cleansed and ready to dance with the seven virtues around Beatrice's chariot.

To support this work, consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend. You can make either contribution at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, Lines 91 - 111. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:43] Two notes on the first nine lines: the heart and the shuttle.

[06:33] Is this a baptism?

[09:46] Three questions that surround the Latin line from the Psalms.

[13:43] Why is the dunking so forceful?

[15:45] What sign do the four women make over Dante?

[17:41] The seven women fill in the details from PURGATORIO, Cantos I and VIII.

[19:56] The four women are linked to the classical world; the three women, to the contemplative life.

[22:43] Does everything happen to Statius, too? And to other penitent souls?

[26:23] How do you express the inexpressible?

[28:28] Must our poet forget the CONVIVIO in Lethe?

[29:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 91 - 111.

Before he collapses, the poem begins a series of inversions or reversals that both increase the ironic valences of the passage and give its reader an almost vertigo-inducing sense of Dante's emotional landscape.

A difficult passage in the Garden of Eden, here Beatrice accomplishes what she came for. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the slow build-up to the final moment of contrition . . . which mimics the moment when Dante gives way in front of Francesca, back in INFERNO's circle of lust.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:20] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, Lines 64 - 90. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:15] Dante, from boy to man.

[07:26] Recognition, the key to the passage, to contrition, and a possible node of irony.

[10:38] The "unbearded" oak and the final crack-up.

[13:49] Iarbas and Dido v. Dante and the new Dido.

[16:28] Beatrice's venom.

[17:27] Dante's beard.

[20:00] The angels' departure?

[21:16] The meaning of the beast's two natures.

[23:53] Glossing the end of the passage: lines 82 - 90.

[27:57] Francesca and her physical seduction v. Beatrice and her physical-theological seduction.

[33:01] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 64 - 90.

She finishes her second salvo at the pilgrim with a rhetorical flourish, showing the reader (and Dante) that she is a master of rhetoric, someone who commands a high, elevated style of poetry--that is, a fusion of the literal and the metaphoric that will become increasingly necessary to describe the PARADISO experience.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the conclusion of Beatrice's second run at the pilgrim Dante and find the ways that she is directing both him and his poetry.

To support the work of this podcast with a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift, please visit this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:09] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, Lines 49 - 63. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:19] Glossing the full passage: "beauty" three times, high rhetorical style, low vulgar vocabulary, and an aphoristic ending.

[13:15] Rereading Beatrice's second salvo at Dante: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 22 - 63.

[15:22] The uneasy but crucial balance between allegorical/metaphorical language and literal/realistic language.

[18:57] Beatrice: negative space made flesh.

[23:38] Renegotiating COMEDY v. intending these revelations all along.

[28:06] High rhetorical style in Dante's vernacular mouth.

Now, in the Garden of Eden, Beatrice brings him to the point where he can voice what he did wrong. He can finally offer his confession.

It was all about her all along. And maybe about what he wrote. And maybe about another woman who caught his eye. Or maybe all of it at once.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the moment in PURGATORIO in which Beatrice finally brings the pilgrim to his full confession.

If you'd like to support this podcast, consider a small monthly stipend or a one-time donation, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:12] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, Lines 22 - 48. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode's entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:16] An easy outline of this passage.

[04:27] Recasting Dante's faults into metaphoric language.

[09:18] Dante's confession.

[12:40] Beatrice and the formal form of "you."

[14:34] Her acceptance of Dante's confession, leading him to contrition.

[18:15] Beatrice: allegory v. realism.

[23:15] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 22 - 48.

He cracks . . . and in doing so, loses language, words, the very things that are the heart of his craft.

Canto XXXI opens with an intensely emotional scene, meant to bring the pilgrim right to the brink of his ability to handle things . . . about like what happened with Francesca in INFERNO, Canto V.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the second canto of PURGATORIO that is centered on the pilgim Dante's interiority . . . and his craft as a poet.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:36] Prefatory remarks on PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI.

[07:02] A node of Dantean irony in a very serious canto.

[10:14] Confession, the first step to forgiveness for Dante (but not for the church).

[15:49] The master poet and the failure of his language.

[24:29] Dante, the cracked crossbow.

[28:15] The return of Francesca.

[30:34] Rereading PURGATORIO, Canto XXXI, lines 1 - 21.

She accuses him of chasing after false images, then of discounting her own inspiration in dreams. She ends with her final hope: to descend to the doorway of the dead and get the pilgrim started across the known universe.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the final lines of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX: Beatrice's first indictment of Dante.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:25] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 127 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:16] In praise of Beatrice's elevated rhetoric.

[05:20] The erotic tension between Beatrice and Dante.

[07:59] First callback in the passage: to either the Siren in PURGATORIO XIX or to the second woman in the VITA NUOVA.

[10:22] Second callback: to either Beatrice's eyes or her appearance in a dream toward the end of the VITA NUOVA.

[13:43] Third callback: to Limbo (and Virgil).

[15:37] Dante's search for the subject matter that will fit his talent.

[16:47] Four levels of interpretation for Beatrice's first indictment: literal, moral, allegorical, and anagogical.

[21:31] When was Dante supposed to purse these failings on the mountain?

[23:27] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, lines 127 - 145.

She launches into her first indictment of the pilgrim, Dante. Here, she claims that he hasn't fulfilled his talent.

He hasn't? With so much of COMEDY behind us?

And what if then the point of this journey? Is it poetic craft or personal redemption?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we comb through the first of Beatrice's condemnations of Dante's many failings that have led him to the top of Mount Purgatory.

If you'd like to help support this podcast with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, please consider donating what you can through this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:41] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 100 - 126. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:23] What can the angels in the chariot not know?

[08:13] What germinates from heaven, far above the seeds that blow out of the Garden of Eden?

[11:15] What was Dante supposed to have done?

[15:19] What good was this journey across the known universe?

[18:40] How do you stay open to the grace you get but perhaps don't expect?

[20:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, lines 100 - 126.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this brilliant passage about interiority from the very top of Mount Purgatorio in the Garden of Eden.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:34] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 79 - 99. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:53] One textual reference in the passage: Psalm 30/31: 1 - 8.

[07:46] A second textual reference in the passage: Augustine's CONFESSIONS, Book VIII.

[09:07] One metaphoric rearrangement in the passage: Beatrice as mother and Dante as son.

[11:55] A second metaphoric rearrangement: the melting ice inside of Dante.

[19:28] Allegory as art.

[22:30] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, lines 79 - 99.

She names the pilgrim, names herself, and gets very close to blasphemy in a passage that defies our expectations, about as revelation should.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the moment that Beatrice takes center stage in Dante's masterwork, COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:33] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 55 - 78. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment about this episode, please find its entry on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:41] The pilgrim finally named: Dante.

[09:03] The crux dilemma of orthodoxy: purity versus human feeling.

[13:44] Beatrice's ship, plus other ships in COMEDY.

[15:29] Beatrice, the admiral.

[17:34] Dante's difficulty in naming himself.

[20:20] Beatrice, Minerva, and our (or the pilgrim's?) expectations.

[23:42] Beatrice's curious blasphemy and questions.

[27:09] Dante as a rejuvenated Narcissus.

[30:32] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, lines 55 - 78.

She's veiled, behind scattered flowers. But Beatrice arrives, in the place of Jesus Christ, her second coming, her advent in the victory chariot.

And as she arrives, Virgil disappears from COMEDY. (Statius, too, even if he's still standing next to the pilgrim.)

This moment is perhaps the climax of the poem as we have understood it up until now. From here on, everything changes. We have moved out of time and into a world beyond human reason. It's a cause for rejoicing but also for great sadness.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:13] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 22 - 54. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment about this episode, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:14] Word choices in the passage that reflect its thematic and emotional space.

[07:04] The Vita Nuova as foundational to Beatrice's appearance.

[12:00] Beatrice's colors and the parade of revelation.

[13:39] Christological confusions with Beatrice.

[16:48] Gender confusions during her arrival.

[19:10] The pilgrim's imagined dialogue with a (mis)quote from The Aeneid.

[23:03] The sad, quiet disappearance of Virgil and the pilgrim's pronounced, loud interiority.

[29:02] The silent, almost unnoticed departure of Statius from the poem.

[31:06] The cleansing of the pilgrim as a bookend for the work of PURGATORIO.

[32:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, lines 22 - 54

We seem to be on the verge of a celestial marriage ceremony, the mystic union of Jesus and his church . . . except Virgil's AENEID gets the last word and darkens the scene considerably.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we stand in expectation at the top of Mount Purgatory for the arrival of . . . somebody.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:24] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, Lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:33] The Little Dipper, the North Star, the chariot, a griffin, and the Bible, all bound up in the longest sentence in COMEDY.

[13:59] The resurrection with a reclothed voice (that is, the stuff of poetry).

[16:38] Many angels in a very small cart.

[19:32] Quoting the triumphal entry of Jesus into Jerusalem (here and in The Vita Nuova).

[21:44] Quoting the tragic prophecy about Marcellus from THE AENEID.

[24:43] Inserting Dante and Virgil into Biblical citations.

[26:59] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXX, lines 1 - 21.

Here are cantos XXX and XXXI, in many ways the climax of the first part of COMEDY: the arrival of Beatrice, long awaited since INFERNO, Canto II.

Her arrival is like nothing we can expect. In fact, it's her second coming . . . like Christ, in judgment.

Get ready. She's not one to be toyed with!

[01:29] A read-through of PURGATORIO, Cantos XXX and XXXI.

After the griffin and its chariot come seven merry women and seven more somber men. They are complex allegories that have inspired much debate.

More than that, they are also an atemporal moment, something outside of chronological time, the way revelation most often happens.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look more closely at the end of the (first half of the) apocalyptic parade our pilgrim witnesses from across the river Lethe.

If you'd like to help with the many costs of this podcast, please consider a very small monthly stipend or a one-time gift, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:13] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, Lines 121 - 154. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:34] The three theological virtues (or colors)--which cause a rereading of previous moments in the great parade.

[09:02] The four cardinal or philosophical virtues, clothed in purple, a deep, imperial red.

[12:00] The seven men who end the parade as seen through the now standard (or consensus) interpretation: the latter books of the New Testament.

[16:06] Alternate interpretations: the allegories as a parade of revelation, rather than strictly the books of the Bible.

[20:38] The metapoetics of living, walking books.

[21:24] The temporal anomaly of the grand parade.

[24:11] Rereading the entire parade: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 43 - 154.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we continue deeper into the allegory of the parade of revelation at the top of Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:32] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 106 - 120. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this passage with me, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:13] The changing nature of allegory at the top of Mount Purgatory.

[09:38] The poetics of the passage: extreme concision and more of Guido Cavalcanti's pastoral poetry.

[13:26] Roman military history in the passage: Scipio the Younger and Caesar Augustus.

[17:41] Roman (or Ovidian) mythology in the passage: Phaëthon and the sun's chariot.

[21:39] The griffin: ancient, medieval, and allegorical (but of what?).

[27:20] The great aporia: the chariot is empty!

[28:51] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 106 - 120.

After the twenty-four lords in white come four animals with green fronds as crowns. They are like the Cherubim in both the prophecies of Ezekiel and in the Apocalypse of St. John (or the book of Revelation).

Except not really. Or sort of. Well, the poet doesn't have time to explain. Go read the text yourself. And especially the one that doesn't quite agree with what I saw.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we find Dante's irony alive and well, even during the grand parade of divine revelation.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:20] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, Lines 88 - 105. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:56] The naturalistic, lush landscape à la Guido Cavalcanti's pastoral poem.

[04:49] The constellations, Argus, and the peacock.

[06:35] The four "animals" from Ezekiel and the Apocalypse of St. John (or the New Testament book of Revelation).

[09:19] Allegorical interpretations of the four animals.

[11:19] "Unmoored" allegories in COMEDY: here and with the three beasts in INFERNO, Canto I.

[14:02] Dante, the Biblical text, and questions of its inerrancy.

[16:25] The direct address tot he reader, perhaps a wild bit of Dantean irony even here in the divine parade.

[21:34] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 88 - 105.

In this passage, the poet's craft heightens to reveal gorgeous poetry that comes from the apocalyptic tradition but far exceeds its beauty with both the Easter eggs Dante puts in the text and the ways the poetry itself enhances the wonder of the parade at hand.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through our second passage on the parade of revelation in the Garden of Eden at the top of Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:19] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 58 - 87. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] The tradition of apocalyptic literature and Dante's use of it.

[08:44] Biblical references in this part of the apocalyptic parade.

[13:54] Contemporary cultural references in the parade.

[16:01] Surprises: Dante's changes to Biblical imagery, his Easter eggs to his own text, and his idiosyncratic word choices.

[20:07] Possible allegorical interpretations for the twenty-four lords (or elders) and the distance of ten paces between the lights.

[25:20] The poetry of the parade: colorful brushwork and gorgeous (if incomplete) reflections in Lethe.

[28:43] More on emergent revelation.

[31:47] Rereading PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 58 - 87.

Our poet has set up a poetic space that leaves even Virgil speechless as we witness the first of the parade of multiple, open-ended meanings proliferate in the Garden of Eden.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we catch our first glimpse of Dante's answer to St. John's Apocalypse.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:16] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, Lines 31 - 57. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:00] The emergent revelation of the images and sounds.

[09:00] The process of perception (and understanding).

[14:12] Multiplying meanings in the apocalyptic parade.

[20:27] The creation of space for the poetic imagery.

[23:11] The second invocation of PURGATORIO.

[26:50] The questions of poetic craft in this vision.

[28:23] Virgil in the apocalypse.

[31:10] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 31 - 57.

The opening of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, brings us back to the pastoral world of Guido Cavalcanti's poem before launching us into allegory, theology, morality, and even misogyny.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we find ourselves at the front of the great parade in Eden.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, Lines 1 - 30. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation by dropping a comment, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:07] An introduction to PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX.

[06:59] The only canto in COMEDY that begins with a derivative of the word "canto."

[08:24] More references to Guido Calvalcanti's pastoral poem.

[11:44] A psalm retrofitted to become a beatitude, moving us from the classical world to divine revelation.

[14:31] The symbolism (and allegory?) of their paces and the stream's bend.

[18:00] Sight and hearing as the basis but not nearly enough, as with Guido Cavalcanti's poem.

[19:02] The lady's reaction ("brother") and the pilgrim's reaction (a lack of fear).

[21:45] The misogyny from the initial flash of light.

[28:59] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIX, lines 1 - 30.

Redemption is a cul-de-sac, returning us to our primal state while also offering us a way to remain readers of the classical world's poetry.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the end of the lady's discourse, the longest speech by a woman yet in COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:15] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 134 - 148. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment on this episode to continue the conversation, please find the entry for this episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:55] Revelation and reason as coequals in scholastic theology.

[06:52] The Golden Age and the Garden of Eden as overlapping spaces and the cul-de-sac of revelation.

[09:14] The pilgrim (and indeed, the poem) in the cul-de-sac with the classical poets on one side and the beautiful lady on the other.

[12:27] The longest speech by a woman yet in COMEDY.

[16:57] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 134 - 148.

The landscape itself is becoming allegorical, moral, theological, even anagogical, all while remaining true to its pastoral form (and roots).

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we delve deeper into the lady's capacious answers and the poet's ever-widening imagination.

If you'd like the help defray the many costs and fees associated with this website, please consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend through this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 109 - 133. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] The botany of both Eden and our own world.

[07:28] The ecology of Eden: abundance.

[11:05] The hydrology of Eden.

[14:03] The strange placement of Lethe in Dante's afterlife.

[17:15] The poet's reimagination of Eden, including an unprecedented river.

[20:23] The vertical layering of meaning onto the pastoral form.

[23:09] The inevitable logical faults of an imagined landscape.

[25:48] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 109 - 133.

But it's one that reveals the hall of mirrors that the poet has created in COMEDY, in which the poem itself justifies its own fictional if scientific answers to questions that lead the fictional pilgrim (and the very real reader) to a position of faith, based on the imagined landscape.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the first of the lady's speech with our pilgrim (as well as Virgil and Statius) in the Garden of Eden at the top of Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 85 - 108. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:06] The lady's six-line theological explanation for the Garden of Eden and the fall of mankind.

[07:31] The lady's six-line scientific explanation for the breeze on the top of Mount Purgatory.

[11:04] The lady's six-line glimpse of Paradise above.

[12:54] The pilgrim's question of faith is built off the fictional landscape and its "scientific" answers found in the poem itself.

[21:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 85 - 108.

The pilgrim clearly feels a sexual attraction toward her, one that might even make us think of his reactions to Beatrice.

She, however, has other ideas, like answering their many questions. Except in so doing, she raises even more questions than she has time to answer.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this passage in PURGATORIO in which we first learn we're wandering around in the Garden of Eden.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:37] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 67 - 84. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment on this episode, please find it on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:38] Upright and flirty: the many contradictions of the lady in the forest.

[07:04] A rare misstep in COMEDY.

[08:06] A tough tangle of references from Ovid and the Bible: from pride to sexual attraction to (thwarted) redemption.

[15:28] The tenuous connections between the lady's laugh and their doubts, as well as her words and Virgil's presence.

[21:17] Her purpose: to offer answers (but not to remove sexual tension).

[23:39] The Garden of Eden, utterly reimagined by Dante.

[28:23] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 67 - 84.

All the while, the poet keeps darkening the poetry around her with threatening references in the pilgrim's mouth--that is, classical examples of profane love that end up in tragic circumstances.

And all this, despite our poet quoting repeatedly from his rival poet's poem.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we watch meaning get thicker and thicker at the top of Mount Purgatory.

If you'd like to help support this podcast by underwriting its many fees, please consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:30] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 43 - 66. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment about this episode to continue the conversation, please find its spot on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:53] What if wandering is the start of some of the most significant journeys?

[08:22] My interpretive thesis: The solitary lady is the only fully fictional character in COMEDY.

[12:30] The poet Dante is cribbing a pastoral poem by his literary rival, Guido Cavalcanti.

[18:14] Two reasons Dante may have cribbed Cavalcanti's pastoral poem: 1) to assuage Dante's own guilt in Cavalcanti's death or 2) to show the limits of Cavalcanti's (and others') poetry.

[22:59] Two classical exemplars from Ovid--Proserpina and Venus--darken the passage considerably.

[27:48] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 43 - 66.

He is eventually blocked by two seemingly small things: a little brook flowing to the left and a solitary lady across the way, singing and picking flowers.

But the poet Dante gives us hints that all is already not what it seems.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we continue our journey across the top of Mount Purgatory . . . and notice that meaning is becoming layered over the naturalist details our pilgrim innocently notices.

If you'd like to help cover the fees for this podcast with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, you can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:07] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 22 - 42. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment about this episode, please do so on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:03] A glance back to the start of the canto . . . and a glance back to the start of INFERNO.

[05:59] More repeated words in the poetry.

[07:31] Naturalistic details and the initial layering of metaphysical, moral, or allegorical meaning.

[16:30] No geographical understanding of this place (yet) . . . but a literary understanding of it: pastoral poetry.

[22:48] The unnamed, solitary lady as an interpretive trap.

[24:57] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 22 - 42.

The opening lines of Canto XXVIII are fully from the pilgrim's point of view. They offer us a wealth of naturalistic detail that looks simple on first blush but that will get layered with sedimentary meaning over the next five and a half cantos.

This place is unprecedented in all of COMEDY. Let's see it for what it is, without delving into the exact answers to the questions of where we are. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the opening lines of the third "chapter" of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:17] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:11] First detail: eagerness as the prime motivation.

[06:08] Second detail: first hints about the prominent poetics in the passage.

[08:42] Third detail: naturalistic imagery that isn't.

[11:04] Fourth detail: the beginnings of polyphony (and dissonance).

[13:09] Fifth detail: the pine forest at Classe.

[14:47] First nuanced point: wandering away and perhaps a resonance with Geryon.

[17:50] Second nuanced point: a Saharan wind in this verdant place (and perhaps an echo of Juno's storm that drives Aeneas into Dido's arms).

[20:31] First major interpretive node: constancy as the changed strategy for the poem.

[23:08] Second major interpretive node: the four verdant or forested landscapes of COMEDY before this one.

[31:57] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVIII, lines 1 - 21.

Our pilgrim, Dante, begins to wander around in this new place, almost unprecedented in the poem (except for perhaps that hill and those three beasts back in INFERNO, Canto I).

This episode of WALKING WITH DANTE is a read-through of the first two cantos (of six) that take place at the top of the mountain. Sit back and listen for the plot before we begin to dive into these complicated passages one by one.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, please consider a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift, using this PayPal link right here.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we stand at the top of the final staircase on Mount Purgatory and take our first steps into the Garden of Eden with the pilgrim who is ready to continue on his own, with crown and miter in hand, thanks all to Virgil, the best guide he could have had.

Please consider supporting this work by offering a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend through this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:11] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 124 - 142. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:45] The climax of Virgil's natural talent and learned skill for the soul's journey across the known universe.

[14:19] Our first glimpse at the top of Mount Purgatory beyond the stairs.

[17:50] The entrance to the Garden of Eden--and a theological problem about Satan.

[21:27] The pilgrim, with crown and miter from Virgil.

[30:24] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 124 - 142.

Virgil steps forward to offer a grand and perhaps new hope. The journey is not about the need for justice. It's now about the search for peace.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this first of two passages where Virgil's character reaches its most accurate and compelling focus.

Please support this work with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:26] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 109 -123. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:58] Callbacks from previous passages in PURGATORIO as this one begins to wrap up the canticle so far.

[12:14] Omitting the erasure of the final "P" on the pilgrim's forehead.

[13:37] The only calm awakening from a dream in PURGATORIO.

[15:44] Virgil, finally and fully the father-guide the pilgrim has always needed.

[23:51] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 109 - 123.

As he watches the large and bright stars, he suddenly falls asleep to dream of Leah (and her sister Rachel) in an Edenic garden, the hope for self-reflection bound up in the promise of the contemplative life.

This dream may well begin to sum up Dante's notion of how a human finds the divine.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we walk through the final dream of PURGATORIO.

Consider donating to keep this work afloat by using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 91 - 108. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:05] The players around and in the dream: Cytherea, Leah, and Rachel.

[10:40] Three interpretations of the dream. One, a pre-fall Even and a post-redemption Eve in the Garden of Eden.

[12:50] Two, a Biblical dream after two classical dreams, but all deeply sexual in nature.

[17:26] Three, two modes for revelation: the active life and the contemplative life.

[19:03] Dantean psychology: finding the divine in the beloved leads to finding the divine in the self.

[23:22] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 91 - 108.

He then hears a call to enter Paradise . . . before he falls asleep on the mountain's rocky staircase.

Problem is, those flames don't burn up irony. It's thick in this passage. A goat even gets into Paradise!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this final climb on Mount Purgatory before we enter the Garden of Eden.

Consider supporting this podcast with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:22] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 49 - 90. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me about this passage, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] Dante's guilt (or creative apex) and Virgil's white lie (or painful memory).

[10:02] The angel in Latin and in vernacular Florentine--and perhaps Dante's homesickness.

[15:02] The scope of the journey: a half revolution around Mount Purgatory.

[18:14] The pastoral, idyllic, Edenic simile to (try to) summarize the moments after the flames.

[21:09] The irony in the simile, full of inaccurate reference points.

[25:28] Dante, the goat let loose into Paradise.

[29:29] Our poet, a world-builder.

[30:55] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 49 - 90.

In so doing, our poet Dante attempts his first run at defining this desire that is driving him up into the heavens. But he does so in a most curious way: by bringing up Geryon, the monster of fraud.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we stand with our pilgrim before the very real chance that the poem may catch on fire around us!

If you'd like to help with the many fees for this podcast, please do so at this PayPal link.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:26] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 19 - 48. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment so we can continue the conversation, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:07] Virgil's tight rhetorical argument for getting in the flames.

[11:35] The beast of fraud and the problem of credence.

[15:47] The final push: Beatrice.

[18:12] Dante's first attempt to solve the problem of desire in his theological context.

[23:19] Our pilgrim, infantilized--and ready for the flames with an apple.

[26:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 19 - 48.

This suffering comes after a discussion of the craft of poetry, after a unifying vision of the world, and after Dante's own memories of both seeing people be burned alive as capital punishment and being sentenced to the same fate if he returns from exile.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin the first lines of the most important canto in PURGATORIO.

Consider supporting this podcast by offering a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:53] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:52] The unifying, globalizing view to begin this transitional canto.

[08:36] The global, totalizing perspective v. the confusion of personal references in the passage.

[11:52] The difficulties of handling multiple perspectives in narratives.

[16:29] The global perspective v. Dante's personal memories and experience.

[24:00] The beatitude in the passage: "Blessed are the pure in heart."

[25:42] The beatitudes in all of PURGATORIO . . . and the missing one of the seven from the Gospel of Matthew.

[28:26] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVII, lines 1 - 18.

Dante has laid out a fairly straightforward theory of poetry through his encounters with three poets. Are these in a logical progression? Are they causally linked, not just sequentially?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for some final thoughts (at least for now) about poetry, lust, and how we humans make meaning.

If you'd like to support this work, please consider donating through this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:50] A progression of poets: Forese Donati, Bonagiunta Orbicciani, and Guido Guinizzelli.

[07:20] Francesca was indeed an ambivalent figure in INFERNO--but not now, when we read through the gravitational lensing of COMEDY.

[12:56] Simone Weil claims that the hope of religion (or for her, Christianity) is to turn violence into suffering, which can then be interpreted.

Arnaut Daniel breaks COMEDY in some ways. He speaks in (a version of) medieval Provençal. But he also gives the final triplicate rhyme by any penitent on the mountain--and these words sum up the action of poetry.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the final words from any penitent in PURGATORIO.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:32] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 136 - 148. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:56] Lines in Provençal--that is, French poetry, the very thing that was a catalyst for Francesca's fatal choice.

[04:51] Ornate rhetoric that leads to one of the most renowned troubadour poets of the Middle Ages.

[09:02] The possibility of complex irony in Arnaut's speech.

[11:07] The final triplicate rhyme from any penitent in PURGATORIO: folly, power, sorrow.

[14:42] Refining: the action of penance.

[16:46] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 136 - 148.

Then Guinizzelli takes the discussion further, morphing that sweetness into truth, offering a metaphysical meaning to a physical sensation. He then proceeds to speak exactly in this sort of poetry, which our poet Dante picks up and uses to conclude this fascinating conversation.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this second and final conversation about the nature of the new poetry and Dante's synthesis of traditions into COMEDY.

Please support this work with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:28] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 115 - 135. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:00] Corporeal and airy manifestations of the body.

[07:55] Girard de Borneil, having been praised, now dismissed.

[10:25] High and low poetry v. Dante's synthesis.

[12:29] Unpacking too-tight lines about poetry.

[15:00] The sweet morphed into the truth.

[19:44] Dante's possible hesitation over his own poetic fame and his wild invocation to the truth of it.

[23:53] Guinizzelli's validation and expansion into metaphoric space.

[28:01] The ending of the conversation: a great example of the sweet new style.

[29:50] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 115 - 135.

He gets lost in a classical simile that almost loses its sense, only to finally find his love for this poetic father and express himself in the straightfoward, new style from which his own poetry was born.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through another complicated but ultimately satisfying passage on the seventh terrace of Mount Purgatory among the lustful penitents.

Support this podcast by offering a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend through this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:22] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 94 - 114. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please find this episode's entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:21] Guido Guinizzelli substituted a philosophical ideal for feudal love.

[07:06] A ridiculously complex simile in the midst of a discussion of the sweet new style.

[11:18] Dante finds a father, perhaps one of the goals of COMEDY.

[13:06] The pilgrim backs off from homoeroticism with feudal pledges.

[15:50] Guinizzelli gets Dante's footprint that even Lethe won't wash away.

[17:24] Poetry may ironically offer a hint of its immortality in its materiality.

[21:47] Rereading PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 94 - 114.

Guinizzelli explains who the penitents are by using two classical allusions and even making up words to describe their sin, in the ways that poets always manipulate and even invent language.

This passage is a shocking example of Dante's changing notion of homosexuality. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through its rather high, ornate rhetoric to discover that in fact there's more fusion that just marriage, than two become one. In fact, our poet is fusing his poetry with Guinizzelli's.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:52] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 67 - 93. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the comment section for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:10] Why are the mountaineer penitents gawking? What makes them feel rough and rugged?

[07:28] The pilgrim Dante receives a beatitude from another poet in the borderland that is Purgatory itself.

[09:14] Julius Caesar is slurred as "Queen."

[13:20] Heterosexuality is the fusion of male and female: "And the two shall become one."

[17:04] Guido Guinizzelli identifies himself, although he's been in the words of this passage all along.

[21:26] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 67 - 93.

But Dante the pilgrim didn't know who they were. He's stuck, confused. He then seeks to break out his manuscript and rule his paper to find his way into the shocking revelation that love in the body can exist in more than one form.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this small passage on the seventh terrace, sandwiched between the two big revelations and before the last major discussion of poetry on Mount Purgatory.

Please help underwrite the many fees of this podcast with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:51] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 49 - 66. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:34] Reading and interpreting through the passage for its metaphoric, rhetorical, and thematic knots.

[14:58] One question from the passage: Why is the body so crucial to this discussion?

[17:03] A second question: What about this passage brings up the mechanics of writing?

[19:29] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 49 - 66.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I work through the passage that was the inception of this entire podcast and is the best illustration of my thesis that love remakes the world.

To support this podcast and underwrite its many fees, please consider a one-time donation or small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:38] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 25 - 48. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:32] The passage is an interruption of people (à la Cavalcante with Farinata) and of tenses: It moves consistently into the narrative present tense.

[05:22] The passage begins with an emphasis on identification and novelty.

[06:34] Moving to the left, rather than the right, the new penitents reenact a moment of Christian fellowship and of Francesca's downfall.

[09:48] The first revolutionary simile: ants who nuzzle each other.

[12:25] The penitents cry out to explain who they are.

[15:34] The second revolutionary simile: cranes who migrate in opposite directions.

[18:08] Dante may rewrite Jeremiah's prophecy.

[20:04] Dante definitely reclassifies homosexuality--which may offer even more explosive implications than he intends.

[25:28] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 25 - 48.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we encounter the first penitents in the flames of lust.

To support this podcast with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, please use this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:26] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment on this passage to continue the conversation with me, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:17] Three comments on PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI as a whole: It provides the poet open space for much discussion, it is part of a larger mirroring with the three upper circles of INFERNO, and it is in direct conversation with both INFERNO, Canto XXVI, and INFERNO, Canto V.

[07:34] Virgil's offers only one line in this canto just before a bit of time-telling in the passage.

[11:50] The pilgrim doesn't have a "sham" or "fictitious" body on the terrace of lust.

[16:46] Near the flames of lust, we get a hint of the poet's expansive geographical knowledge.

[22:30] The passage may already be about the craft of poetry.

[25:24] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXVI, lines 1 - 24.

The pilgrim must make his precarious way between those burning fires and the abyss just to his right, a narrow path that may give us a clue to the poet's own fears of lust.

This passage is a grab-bag of ideas, hymns, references, and emotions. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore it more fully.

Please support this podcast with a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:23] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 109 - 139. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:55] Three curiosities: a double meaning at line 109, the flaming geography, and the parallels in INFERNO, Canto XXV.

[08:13] Three surprising moments in the passage: a bit of humor, a glancing reference to an Aristotelean mean, and a direction connection with our poet.

[12:21] A hymn for chastity and a reference to Shadrach, Mishach, and Abednego from Daniel 3.

[16:56] Three examples of chastity . . . except the third seems smudged or inaccurate.

[23:08] Penance as a medieval medical remedy.

[24:19] PURGATORIO, the most human canto, about human development and art, all connected to nature.

[26:21] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 109 - 139.

This passage is justifiably complicated. Dante's imaginative and intellectual powers are on full display. It's easy to be lost in the details but there are wonders afoot, including the idea that there may be an allegorical reading of the passage that concerns the afterlife of a work of art.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we finish up Statius's discourse on the soul's material attributes in the afterlife before we ascend to the seventh and final terrace of Mount Purgatory.

To support this podcast: use this PayPal link.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 79 - 108. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me by dropping a comment on this episode, please find it on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:25] Statius fuses classical imagery (the fates) and Augustinian thought.

[10:02] The soul miraculously but of its own accord falls into the afterlife. Wait, what? And only now knows its path in the underworld?

[13:03] The formative power of the soul is intact after death.

[14:57] The afterlife soul is a fabrication of the air.

[16:52] Statius gently refines Virgil's unsatisfactory answers to the pilgrim Dante's question.

[18:28] The souls in the afterlife can enact their desires, just as they do in the world of the living.

[20:51] Statius also gently refines Virgil's discussion of souls in the afterlife in THE AENEID.

[24:24] Is this passage about the afterlife of poetry (or art), too?

[27:12] Rereading all of Statius's discourse: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 34 - 108.

This passage is astounding discourse on developmental embryology as understood by medievals via Aristotle but may also be a complex allegory for the creation of poetry.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work our way through the middle bits of Statius's discourse.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend. You can donate via this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:35] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 52 - 78. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me about this passage, please find the entry for this episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:37] Following the logic of Statius's discourse on embryology.

[19:46] Three conclusions about reproduction and human development via Statius (and the poet Dante).

[23:15] Embryology as an allegory for the craft of poetry.

[25:53] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 52 - 78.

To answer that, Virgil has offered a couple of unsatisfying answers, then turned the lecture over to the redeemed Statius . . . who begins by discussing human digestion. As understood via Aristotle, Aquinas, and more, food is purified into blood which then coagulates into a fetus.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the opening stanzas of Statius's remarkable and poetic description of human embryology. Dante is nothing if not surprising at every turn.

If you'd like to help support this podcast by underwriting its many fees, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:04] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 34 - 51. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:13] Statius begins with two important words that signal the poetics of his lecture: "lume" ("light") at line 36 and "bello" ("beautiful") at line 43.

[07:48] Dante the poet cribs his understanding of digestion from several sources and sees digestion itself as the foundation of human reproduction.

[16:51] Reproduction begins as the mingling of female blood with purified, male blood.

[19:26] It then continues through coagulation and vivification.

[22:43] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 34 - 51.

Virgil has given the pilgrim the confidence to ask this question. So Virgil takes the first crack at an answer. Problem is, he offers a whole unsatisfying answer and then turns the discussion over to Statius.

This passage is a curious introduction to Statius's coming discourse on embryology. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the emotional vibe established before we get to the intellectual and doctrinal answer ahead.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 22 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:19] Curiosities in the medieval Florentine in lines 22 - 27.

[06:33] Virgil's two inadequate answers to the pilgrim's question.

[13:11] The wound of the intellect and their relation to poetry.

[17:35] Statius and the limitations of Virgil.

[20:04] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 22 - 33.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the opening lines of PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, a canto that was often treated as a scientific treatise in the late Middle Ages and early Renaissance but that is now too often dismissed as a medieval curiosity: Statius's wild discussion of embryology.

If you'd like to support this work, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend to underwrite the many hosting, licensing, editing, streaming, and royalty fees by using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:33] PURGATORIO's Canto XXV is a bridge between gluttony and lust, as well as a bridge between two important discussions of poetry.

[07:04] We get a brief glimpse of Jerusalem as we hurry up the stairs.

[09:42] Is there symbolism or even allegory in the notion that the narrow stairs "unpairs" the travelers?

[11:48] The pilgrim is a baby stork--he wants to fly but still needs parental protection.

[15:30] The pilgrim Dante finally asks the central problem of corporeality that has troubled COMEDY almost since its beginning.

[18:43] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXV, lines 1 - 21.

During the climb, Statius engages in a complicated and fascinating discourse on embryology (at least as understood in Dante's medieval learning).

Then we find ourselves standing before a wall of flames with the lustful penitents walking, singing, and shouting as they burn. We discover there are two types of lustful penitents, before our pilgrim and his two guides have to step into the fire.

It's the first time our pilgrim has felt bodily pain over any of the terrors of hell or the penances of the mountain. He comes out on the other side and Virgil declares that our pilgrim is now his own guide, no longer in need of Virgil at all.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this surprising read of the final terrace of PURGATORIO.

If you'd like to help defray the many costs of this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

[01:35] My rough English translation of the three cantos: PURGATORIO, Cantos XXV - XXVII.

They're interrupted by the angel at the stairs who shows them the way up to the final terrace of Mount Purgatory.

Our pilgrim loses his sight but gains precision in his other sense. And our poet gains the daring to rewrite one of Jesus's beatitudes.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many costs of this podcast, including, hosting, licensing, streaming, and research fees, please consider a one-time donation or even a very small monthly stipend at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 130 - 154. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this passage, please find its entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:48] The growing importance of the contemplative life.

[07:46] The color in the holy glare (red) and the point of this journey (peace).

[11:07] The "blind" simile of the May breeze at dawn.

[16:11] The rewritten and tricky beatitude that ends Canto XXIV.

[21:22] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 130 - 154.

They soon come across the second tree on the terrace (or perhaps just the second tree that they’ve seen!). This tree proclaims itself a seedling from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.

Dante and his companions appear a bit shook up as the tree offers them a classical and a Biblical example of gluttony.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin our exit from the sixth terrace of Purgatory and talk about the solace of ceremonial repetition.

If you’d like to donate to help support the many hosting, licensing, streaming, and editing fees associated with this podcast, please consider giving a one-time contribution or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:34] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 100 - 129. If you’d like to read along or drop a comment about this episode, please find the entry for it on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:47] Unpacking the first four tercets (ll. 100 - 111) and asking five questions about the second tree on Purgatory’s sixth terrace of gluttony.

[12:30] The possible regression to childish desire as a form of penance on this terrace.

[16:05] The second tree on the terrace, a seedling from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil in the Garden of Eden.

[24:29] The classical and Biblical examples of gluttony: centaurs and Gideon’s army.

[28:53] Ceremonial repetition as solace.

[33:38] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 100 - 129

Let's look back over the entire scope of the conversation to discover its construction, its architecture, and the way meaning is made and moves through the words.

We'll start by reading the entire thing in my English language translation. Then we'll move on to a couple of small points, followed by some much larger implications of the construction and imaginative landscape of this interchange.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, please consider giving a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:06] Reading the entire conversation between Forese Donati and the pilgrim Dante in PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, line 40, to Canto XXIV, line 99.

[13:27] The conversation starts and ends with references to shores.

[14:51] The pilgrim Dante is not cleansing his sins in this walk up Mount Purgatory.

[17:08] There are three balanced prophecies in this conversation.

[20:54] The conversation is constructed from friendship to poetic craft to chivalric exaltation.

[24:55] This conversation may represent Dante's attempt at political and personal reconciliation.

Dante the pilgrim hedges the question of when he will die, then Forese leaps into an apocalyptic vision of the ruin of someone closely connected to Florence--that is, his own brother, Corso Donati.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this apocalyptic prophecy about Corso's ruin, fit it into its historical context, and finally are left with the pilgrim, Virgil, and Statius on the terrace, all caught in a host of military images.

If you'd like to help defray the many fees associated with this podcast, including hosting, editing, domain registrations, and my subscriptions to a host of academic journals, please consider offering a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 76 - 99. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode of the podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:43] A couple of problems with what the pilgrim Dante could know and the beginning of the military images in the passage.

[08:53] Forese Donati's apocalyptic prophecy of the very near future.

[13:28] The story of Corso Donati, Forese's brother and a key leader of the Black Guelphs in Florence.

[19:25] The military imagery for Forese's triumph (which reminds us of Brunetto's exit in INFERNO XV), as well as that imagery for Virgil and Statius, standing near the pilgrim on the terrace.

[23:56] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 76 - 99.

Bongiunta is not finished with that discussion. Instead, he goes on to name this inspiration the "sweet new style" (or the "dolce stil novo"), thereby igniting over seven hundred years of commentary and controversy.

And Bonagiunta himself seems to throw some fuel on that fire, given his apparent satisfaction with himself. And Dante the poet may add some fuel, too, given his citation of classical sources, hardly breathed-in inspiration.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this most daunting passage in all of PURGATORIO, striking near the heart of what Dante the poet believes he's doing . . . and what generations of critics and thinkers believe he's doing.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, please consider a very small monthly stipend or a one-time donation through this PayPal link right here. Your contribution helps me pay the many fees associated with keeping this podcast going.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:48] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 55 - 75. If you'd like to read along or to continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:02] Bonagiunta's imaginative landscape: brothers and knots.

[07:17] Bonagiunta's peers (or perhaps his school?): Giacomo da Lentini and Giuttone d'Arezzo.

[11:41] The "sweet new style" and the taproot of Italian literature.

[16:27] Problems with the "sweet new style": its membership, its final relationship to Bonagiunta, and its meaning sewn into the text over generations.

[24:55] Two similes that comment on or even challenge this "sweet new style."

[30:00] Forese's poignant question and its link to INFERNO X.

[31:56] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 55 - 75.

Our pilgrim asks him for more information. He then offers the pilgrim an oblique prophecy that has troubled Dante scholars for hundreds of years. He also asks if this pilgrim is the same guy who wrote a poem found in the VITA NUOVA.

Dante replies that he is indeed that poet . . . and goes on to claim that his poetry is inspired by love itself.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take on the first half of the single most annotated passage in all of Dante's COMEDY. We are getting to the heart of what Dante thinks he's doing with his poetry . . . but what exactly that is remains something of a mystery, or at least a scholarly debate.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:00] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, Lines 34 - 54. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:08] The value of paying attention: the pilgrim to Bonagiunta and Bonagiunta to Dante's poetry.

[08:54] Bonagiunta's shifty murmurs of "gentucca."

[11:51] An opaque prophecy about Lucca from an older poet who should know how to be clear.

[17:13] Bonagiunta's refernce to a canzone (or long poetic song) from Dante's VITA NUOVA.

[20:37] The pilgrim's wild claims for direct inspiration from . . . love (or maybe God).

[27:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 34 - 54.

As he points them out, Forese (and Dante the poet behind him) use culinary and gastronomical imagery to reinforce the themes of the terrace and perhaps to further fuel that long-standing feud between French and Italian cuisine.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we pick through the historical and cultural details in the second part of Forese's answer to the pilgrim.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:52] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 16 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:17] The deft use of culinary and gastronomic imagery in this passage.

[06:40] Five penitent gluttons: Bonagiunta of Lucca, Pope Martin IV, Ubaldino della Pila, Boniface, and Master Marchese degli Orgogliosi.

[17:12] A curiosity: It's not forbidden to name them?

[19:16] Is this passage a false lead?

[22:54] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 16 - 33.

For one thing, Virgil has been silence for most of Canto XXIII and will indeed remain silent throughout Canto XXIV, his longest silence yet in COMEDY. We won’t hear anything from him until well into Canto XXV.

And in this on-going conversation with Forese Donati, we get our first glimpse of Paradise, after curiously understanding that the human will is strong enough to slow down its progress even to that place, its ultimate goal.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the opening lines of our on-going time among the gluttons on the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 1 - 15. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:12] Canto XXIV is a continuation of Canto XXIII--and Virgil remains silent.

[06:33] The "redead" is a reference to Jude 12 in the New Testament.

[10:49] Does Ulysses enter into this passage?

[11:50] The human will can even slow down its ultimate desire, the central motivation of the universe.

[14:15] Mentioning Piccarda Donati gives us a fuller glimpse of Paradise ahead . . . and a classical glimpse.

[16:48] Pain and solace are the core of the prophetic voice.

[21:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIV, lines 1 - 15.

The pilgrim retells the journey, renegotiating its opening and reconfiguring its theology, even this high up on the mountain, as we near the apocalyptic climax of PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we walk slowly through this last passage in Canto XXIII.

If you'd like to help support this podcast and underwrite its many fees, please consider a small stipend or a one-time donation at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 112 - 133. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with a comment, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] A V-shaped structure reinforced for Canto XXIII.

[06:17] A question of what Forese should remember and how the opening of COMEDY should be understood.

[10:20] Further negotiations about the plot of COMEDY.

[14:22] The first time the pilgrim Dante names Beatrice and the first time he acknowledges the loss of Virgil.

[16:09] A curious moment: Virgil named and Statius unnamed.

[18:29] Two larger questions. One, COMEDY is a poem in process.

[20:03] Two, PURGATORIO replicates the structure of the New Testament.

[23:16] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 112 - 133.

This complicated poetic act can only be accomplished with the vernacular, with medieval Florentine (in Dante's case).

And although it fuses with misogyny and xenophobia, it nonetheless demonstrates the Dante's new style beyond love sonnets: the lyrical, prophetic voice.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Forese Donati's condemnation of Florentine women and his wild launch into Isaiah's prophetic vision.

If you'd like to help support this podcast, consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:40] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 91 - 111. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation via a comment on this episode, please find its entry on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:50] As Forese launches into his misogynistic condemnation of Florentine women, he reaffirms his love for his wife, Nella, the "little widow."

[08:42] Forese's prophetic discourse takes flight from a misogynistic and xenophobic platform.

[11:29] Rising sumptuary laws indicate an increasingly fluid social structure, particularly for women.

[15:02] Forese ends his screed at a high-style moment infused with Isaiah's prophecy (from Isaiah 7).

[18:03] The prophetic discourse ends at a lyrical moment somehow still in this high style.

[20:03] The vernacular is able to handle a greater emotional range than Latin in Dante's day.

[23:40] Forese's prophecy never comes true--and incorporates a curious shadow of doubt.

[26:23] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 91 - 111.

Along the way, they seem to be coming closer and closer to the Christian idea of redemptive suffering, a complex stance in the face of the nihilism that almost overwhelms the suffering in INFERNO behind us.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore these problems, plus talk about Forese's wife, Nella, and the role of the vernacular in exploring and explaining the deepest truths.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:37] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, Lines 76 - 90. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for the episode of the podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:17] The changing notion of suffering--yes, in COMEDY, but even in this small passage.

[07:20] Accounting for time, souls, and their ascents on Mount Purgatory.

[13:32] Nella Donati and two interpretive stances toward her place in the poem: 1) correcting the record or 2) hoping for a full record of a poet's works.

[17:36] Vernacular language and its uncomfortable relationship with "higher" truths.

[24:03] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 76 - 90.

This passage is a curious example of felix culpa, the fortunate fall, in which suffering must be reinterpreted for the greater good. Except the pain doesn't stop being the pain. Suffering remains the central metaphysical question of the human condition, the experiential crux underneath our high-minded notions of ontology.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this conversation between two poetic rivals on the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory among the emaciated gluttons.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 49 - 75. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:08] Best friends, still perhaps vain, still perhaps rivals.

[10:39] A power in the water and the tree--and an intense interpretive knot.

[14:56] The problem of hunger and thirst among disembodied souls.

[18:50] The interpretation of suffering as the crux of being human.

[26:15] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 49 - 75.

Along the way, there are increasingly complex and almost gaming literary references that litter the text until Dante the pilgrim suddenly is recognized by a fellow, contemporary, vernacular poet who is not known for any high style but is instead a champion of a low, vulgar poetry in this hip, new form of the sonnet.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look into the mirror of an increasingly complex meta reality in COMEDY as Dante the pilgrim meets his friend and rival Forese Donati on the sixth terrace of Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:22] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 28 - 48. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me in the comment section at the bottom of the page, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:23] Internal thoughts--less revelatory than just rehearsed--about the siege of Jerusalem in 70 CE.

[09:27] The potential blasphemy of the pelican in her piety.

[12:50] Three references to other texts in increasing opacity: from Dante's VITA NUOVA, from Ovid's METAMORPHOSES, and from Josephus' history (sort of).

[15:30] Starved enough to see God's writing in the human face: a felix culpa?

[21:31] A misplaced tercet in COMEDY?

[22:52] Forese Donati and Dante v. Statius and Virgil.

[31:18] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 28 - 48.

This passage is an interesting set of problems: low stylists which end up with Ovidian references, all tied up in the very real medieval problem of starvation.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this passage of camaraderie, mentorship, and growing affection on the terrace of gluttony.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:13] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 1 - 27. If you'd like to read along or start a conversation with me and others about this passage, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:19] Camaraderie and mentorship in a lower style with a final salvo at avarice.

[11:34] A psalm fragment in Latin and a possible quibble about Virgil's character.

[16:26] Pensive pilgrims, right out of the VITA NUOVA, Dante's earlier work.

[20:05] Ovid's METAMORPHOSES as a source for hunger: cited thoroughly and then overwritten beyond its ending.

[25:04] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXIII, lines 1 - 27.

This complicated questioning has no final answer . . . which means it can drive most of us modern, post-scientific-revolution people nuts?

But it all goes back to Dante's relationship with his own primary text, the Bible? He didn't doubt its stories. Perhaps he didn't doubt other texts as quickly as we might.

But he also didn't assign meaning quite as quickly as we do.

Let's explore some answers to this thorny question: Did Dante think Aeneas, Dido, and other classical characters were real?

A voice in the tree warns them off and offers examples of temperance, of moderate appetites, all of which are strange interpretations of Biblical stories that don't necessarily have to do with gluttony.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at some of the final misreadings and misinterpretations in PURGATORIO, Canto XXII. It's a wild end to one of the most profound cantos of the second canticle of COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, either with a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, you can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 130 - 145. If you'd like to read along or if you'd like to talk more about this passage or this episode, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:02] The first temptation among the penances: ripe, tasty fruit.

[05:41] Questions about this upside-down tree: how does it grow, what does the dripping liquid do for it, and what does it all mean?

[11:47] This tree and the two trees in the Garden of Eden.

[14:25] Three examplars against gluttony: the Virgin Mary, Roman women, and the prophet Daniel.

[19:00] The classical age in the Christian age, with its precursor, John the Baptist (or perhaps Virgil).

[25:03] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 130 - 145.

This passage represents the paradox of circularity and linearity, of stasis and advancement, that is the major structural (and thematic!) tension in COMEDY.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through a seemingy easy passage while the pilgrim learns the craft of poetry.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:01] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 115 - 129. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, find this episode on my website and drop down the page to see the translation and a place to start a conversation with a comment: markscarbrough.com.

[03:23] Circularity and linearity: the crux paradox of COMEDY.

[08:37] Marking the temporal as a reality claim in COMEDY.

[13:25] A possible change in Virgil's characterization.

[16:25] Learning the craft of poetry (to engage the play of quotation and interpretation).

[21:12] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 115 - 129.

They also transfer limbo's sighs from the damned to the poet Dante and potentially to his reader. Where have these great authors gone?

And if their texts are one way to God, how many ways to redemption have then been lost with them?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the ironic and complex conclusion to Virgil and Statius' conversation in PURGATORIO, Canto XXII. We end at a place of the final misreading and misquotation: that of COMEDY itself.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees and costs of this podcast, please consider making a one-time contribution or setting up a very small monthly stipend with this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:25] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 94 - 114. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the comment section for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:31] The reconception of limbo over the course of COMEDY.

[09:56] The Roman authors in the list of those lost.

[17:48] The Greek authors in the list of those lost;.

[21:02] The characters from Statius' poems who are apparently in limbo.

[24:55] The displacement of Manto in COMEDY: the final misreading and misquotation in a canto full of them.

[27:57] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 94 - 114.

Through a long process and by subterfuge. Statius was a closeted or hidden (or to use the medieval Florentine term, "closed") Christian.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look through this passage in which Dante the poet attempts to justify putting this pagan Roman poet in Purgatory and on his way to Paradise.

If you'd like to help out with the costs of this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:20] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 76 - 93. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:27] Two minor issues: Who converted Statius? And was Dante the poet rethinking his position toward the neutrals in INFERNO?

[08:08] Statius' journey in the afterlife to the fourth circle of Mount Purgatory . . . and where else?

[08:40] Statius' improvised backstory and the inclusion of a historical figure: Emperor Domitian.

[13:13] Dante's concept of conversion (v. modern conceptions).

[16:36] Statius' words and the problem of the "above" text.

[20:01] Texts in texts and the inevitable overlay of irony.

[24:50] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 76 - 93.

Statius replies with some of the most shocking lines in COMEDY: He became a Christian AND a poet because of the damned, pagan Virgil. Virgil's own poetry led Statius to his profession and his confession.

To put it another way, Statius was redeemed, not by divine light, but a small human candle.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work our way through one of the most revelatory passages in all of PURGATORIO, lines that help us understand the framework of COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:53] My English translation of the text: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 55 - 75. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to start a conversation, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:39] Virgil's questions about Thebes, history, and faith.

[15:02] Virgil's inspiration toward both poetry and God.

[19:07] Statius' misquoting from Virgil's ECLOGUES.

[27:31] Poetry and conversion founded in inspiration from a text.

[30:01] Statius and Christianity in COMEDY.

[32:00] Rereading the text: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 55 - 75.

In this interpolated (or interstitial?) episode of WALKING WITH Dante, we’ll talk about the two basic forms of irony: simple (or verbal) and situational. Then we’ll talk about three types of situational irony: dramatic, cosmic, and what I like to call “creative” irony.

Statius explains that he discovered his error when he read two lines from Virgil's AENEID. The problem is that Statius misquotes these lines and misinterprets them, making them fit his personal situation while pushing them through Aristotle's ethics.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this wild passage that has inspired over seven hundred years of commentary. What if the way you can get saved is by misinterpreting a classical text?

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:57] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 25 - 54. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:08] The binary relationship becomes a triangulation, thereby elevating the pilgrim Dante.

[08:30] Statius' changing status in Purgatory colors (or darkens) Aristotle's notions of accidents and substances.

[16:06] Statius seems to have read Dante's INFERNO!

[21:19] Statius misquotes and misinterprets a passage from THE AENEID, which then leads to his salvation (or at least to the recognition of his errors).

[29:16] Avarice and prodigality are apparently mostly connected to the clergy.

[30:18] The whole discussion falls back to Aristotle's ethics, (mis)interpreted for the Christian reader.

[32:58] To sum, a misquoted, misinterpreted passage from classical literature begins the journey toward redemption.

[35:46] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 25 - 54.

The angel cuts short a beatitude from the gospels. Virgil seems to misquote Francesca from INFERNO, Canto V. And Virgil himself seems to toss out Aristotle’s Golden Mean to get what he wants from Statius.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the start of many misquotations and misreadings that make up PURGATORIO, Canto XXII.

If you'd like to help out with the many fees associated with this podcast, you can offer a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend of a couple of dollars, pounds, or Euros, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:59] My English translation of the medieval Florentine. If you'd like to read along or add a comment to continue the discussion with me, please find the entry for this episode of the podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:02] My opening remarks on PURGATORIO, Canto XXII.

[06:57] The climb and the truncated beatitude.

[12:23] Action off-stage . . . because of haste or because of blindness?

[15:47] Virgil's quotation (or misquotation) of Francesca from INFERNO, Canto V.

[20:55] Virgil's tragedy and Dante's hope.

[25:43] The question on all of our minds (with a passing reference to Aristotle's Ethics).

[29:29] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXII, lines 1 - 24.

On this episode, sit back for a read-through of these three cantos.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I read a rough translation of PURGATORIO, Cantos XXII, XXIII, and XXIV, exploring the climb up from the fifth terrace, the discussions between Virgil and Statius, and the poetic-prophetic space that makes up the arboretum of the sixth terrace, the one with the gluttons.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many costs of this podcast, you can make a one-time contribution or set up a very small monthly stipend by visiting this PayPal link right here.

[01:33] A read-through of Cantos XXII, XXIII, and XXIV of PURGATORIO. No translation available--just sit back and listen. A closer, better translation lies ahead when we break down these cantos into their respective parts.

Which means Dante is also caught on his emotions which seem to be overriding his will . . . in a canto about the will's primacy.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for the very human ending to his surprising and comedic canto in PURGATORIO.

If you'd like to help out with the many fees associated with this podcast, for streaming, hosting, editing, and more, please consider a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend, using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:25] My English translation of the passage. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:33] The curious inelegance of the poetry in this passage.

[08:31] The welling up of emotions into the eyes.

[11:50] Virgil's curious reticence.

[13:21] The will v. the emotions--ever the human dilemma.

[17:43] The dramatization of the anxiety of influence--and of the divided will.

[19:56] The revelation of Virgil on this road to Emmaus.

[22:46] Polytheism in this monotheistic poem?

[24:10] Statius' error and apology.

[29:12] The imperfections of the perfected.

[31:03] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 103 - 136.

His salvation is one of the most audacious moves in all of COMEDY. Dante has to work every fiction-making muscle he has to assert that this pagan poet has spend so long in Purgatory on his way to heaven . . . and finds himself face to face with Virgil, his poetic inspiration and apparently the carrier of God's revelation.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we discover another way that love moves the fence.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:52] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 76 - 102. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:49] Introducing Publius Papinius Statius (45 - 96 CE), the author of THE THEBIAD and THE ACHILLEID . . . and a soul who should never be here in Purgatory.

[10:36] Virgil's continued insistence on the "why?"

[13:38] The lamentable if inevitable bloom of antisemitism in COMEDY.

[17:30] Statius, always without faith in the historical record but always vocalized in COMEDY.

[20:36] The shocking conjunction of THE AENEID and babytalk.

[24:06] A bit of heresy from Statius . . . unless the redeemed don't have to be perfect.

[27:19] Why Statius in Canto XXI of PURGATORIO?

[31:35] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 76 - 102.

Or do they? Is it that simple? Or theologically explosive? This passage is easy to overstate, particularly in the modern world. But there are actually at least two safeguards on this notion of free will in the soul's answer.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the theological second half of the soul's answer to Virgil's questions.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:02] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 58 - 75. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with a comment, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:13] The supremacy of the will (and of interiority).

[10:10] The supremacy of divine justice (and a counterweight in the argument).

[14:28] The turn to the speaker's autobiography.

[17:06] The pilgrim as a third in an otherwise simple dialogue between two.

[19:31] Rereading the entire answer to Virgil's questions: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 40 - 75.

The unknown shade on the fifth terrace of Mount Purgatory begins his answer by referring to Aristotle's notions of change . . . and offers the surprising conclusion that some change is impossible about the three steps to the gate of Purgatory proper.

And then he does something wilder: He begins to wrap the poetic imagery of Cantos XX and XXI back onto itself.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this difficult passage, the first part of the unknown shade's answer.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:20] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 40 - 57. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me via a comment, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:08] The mountain's meteorology and Aristotelian accidental change.

[09:09] Two translation issues early in the passage.

[12:45] Classical learning: Thaumus's daughter, Iris.

[15:41] Stable feet v. wet feet . . . and the search for a contemplative space.

[19:28] The refusal to answer "why?"

[21:16] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 40 - 57.

Virgil explains that the pilgrim is still very much alive. To do so, Virgil uses classical, not Christian, imagery. And Virgil presses for an answer as to "why" the mountain just shook and "why" all the souls sang out with one voice.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Virgil's curious answer to the unknown shades questions on the fifth terrace of Purgatory, among the avaricious.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:43] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 22 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry and comment section for this particular episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:49] Doctor Virgil explains the symbols on the pilgrim Dante's forehead . . . or does he?

[08:15] Virgil offers the firm assurance of the pilgrim Dante's redemption.

[10:37] Virgil uses classical imagery to explain life and death.

[14:32] Was Virgil fished out of all of hell or just Limbo?

[17:23] Virgil focuses on the "why?"

[20:42] The thread and the thirst wrap the poetry in the canto.

[22:40] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 22 - 39.

This shade offers a Christian greeting, Virgil returns it in a darker way, and then this shade assume he's looking at two damned shades, escaped from hell.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this most curious passage that begins one of the most fascinating cantos in all of Dante's COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, please consider a one-time donation or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or offer more commentary, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:43] Introductory material for Canto XXI.

[07:26] Hesitation, the desire to know, and Aristotle.

[10:46] The Samaritan woman and a shift in the nature of thirst.

[13:35] Haste and liminal spaces.

[15:15] Vendetta, justice, and human compassion.

[17:33] The road to Emmaus and the resurrection.

[21:26] The sudden appearance of a shade.

[25:14] Christian greetings, darkened by Virgil.

[28:40] A transfer of "what?" from Dante the pilgrim to this shade.

[30:27] This shade, Virgil, and Dante together.

[31:54] A rereading of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XXI, lines 1 - 21.

Dante is afraid. Virgil may even be afraid. But he tells the pilgrim to "fear not," much as those angels tell the shepherds at the birth of Jesus.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work our way through the end of PURGATORIO, Canto XX: a return to the plot with lots of portents for what's ahead.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:33] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 124 - 151. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:13] A return to the plot--or to the "now" (which may be what avarice cannot understand).

[09:49] The third earthquake of COMEDY.

[12:11] Two references to birth with this earthquake.

[15:44] Virgil's "fear not" when he doesn't seem fearless.

[16:56] The pilgrim's possibly faulty memory.

[20:29] INFERNO XX vs. PURGATORIO XX.

[24:27] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 124 - 151.

In doing so, Hugh begins to sing antiphonally . . . or at least, he begins to list off those who have been done in by avarice, the quickest and tightest list of figures in PURGATORIO.

Why is this list so full of figures yet so curt in its style? And why does Hugh seem to come to the end of his speech so abruptly?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we try to answer these and other questions at the conclusions of Hugh Capet's monumental monologue.

If you'd like to make a contribution to underwrite the many fees for this podcast, you can do so as either a one-time donation or through a small monthly stipend. To do either, please go to this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 97 - 123. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode among those for WALKING WITH DANTE on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:01] Hugh's abrupt transition from one answer to his second.

[08:46] Our questions about glossing and polyphony.

[12:29] Hugh Capet's brief list of the tragic figures of avarice.

[22:18] Spurred to what? Your own choice?

[26:26] Two rationales for the shortness of these lines about the greedy figures.

[30:11] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 97 - 123.

We've come to the very center of Dante's beef with the French crown, voiced by this legendary monarch about his own descendants, particularly Philip IV (or Philip the Fair). It's a tale so dire that even papal corruption is forgotten!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the narrative climax of Hugh Capet's monologue on the fifth terrace of avarice in PURGATORIO.

If you'd like to help underwrite the fees of this podcast, whether with a one-time donation or a very small monthly stipend, please consider doing so with this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:14] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 82 - 96. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me about this episode, please find its slot on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:06] Identifying the players in the passage: Philip IV (or the Fair) of France and Pope Boniface VIII.

[07:48] Tracing the political history behind this passage.

[15:41] Admitting the shock of Dante's defending Pope Boniface VIII.

[18:42] Talking in code as a survival strategy.

[22:54] Querying whether evil actions can be inherited (since virtuous ones can't be).

[25:11] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 82 - 96.

Our pilgrim gets treated to a grim recital of French misdeeds. And we catch our first whiff of antisemitism in COMEDY, just at the moment the actual French monarchy is expelling the Jews from French territory.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this tough middle passage in Hugh Capet's rendition of the avaricious wrongs of the Frankish kingdom.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this otherwise unsupported podcast, you can make a one-time donation or a small on-going contribution by using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of the podcast WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:43] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 61 - 81. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this difficult passage with me and others, find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:07] The poetics in the passage: structure and rhyme.

[07:51] The troubled disconnection and reconnection of Provence and France.

[12:48] Hugh Capet's first malicious descendant: Charles I of Anjou (1226 - 1281).

[19:10] The second miscreant among his issue: Charles of Valois (1270 - 1325).

[22:56] The first instance of antisemitism in COMEDY.

[29:37] Hugh Capet's third bad seed: Charles II of Anjou (1254 - 1309).

[32:50] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 61 - 81.

Dante steps closer and inquires who this soul is. He finds himself in front of Hugh Capet, the legendary (and historical) founder of the Capetian dynasty of French kings. Or at least a version of said Hugh Capet, since Dante the poet flubs the historicity of his penitent.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this fascinating look at the second major figure on the fifth terrace of Mount Purgatory.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:50] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, Lines 40 - 60. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the comment section for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:38] Hugh Capet in history.

[10:46] Hugh Capet out of history and into COMEDY.

[14:19] The highlights in the passage, plus a note about Hugh's prophetic voice.

[25:04] The passage without its historical apparatus.

[28:49] Dante's anti-French propaganda and his misunderstanding of power as a human motivation.

[32:16] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 40 - 60.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this passage on the terrace of the avaricious that will eventually lead us to our surprising second greedy soul ahead.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:15] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 16 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me about this passage, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:15] Dante, the poor homeless man, stares at the greedy.

[05:25] The exemplars for the avaricious are told in very few words.

[07:04] The first exemplar for the avaricious: Mary and her poverty.

[10:03] The second exemplar for the avaricious: Fabricius and his poverty.

[12:26] The third exemplar for the avaricious: Saint Nicholas and his generosity.

[16:18] Does Dante have a death wish?

[22:10] Rereading the passge: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 16 - 39.

He and Virgil pick their way through the crowded fifth terrace of Purgatory. The avaricious are so many that the poet has to step out and offer a prophetic denunciation among the wreckage.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we edge our way toward the second penitent on this crowded terrace of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:32] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, Lines 1 - 15. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me in the comments to this episode, please find it on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:16] The advantange or problem with structure in PURGATORIO, Canto XX.

[07:30] The pilgrim's weak will redirected.

[09:57] The pilgrim's and Virgil's movement v. the immobile smelting of the penitents.

[13:17] The poet-prophet's curse.

[16:32] The poet-prophet's hope.

[22:14] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XX, lines 1 - 15.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the end of PURGATORIO XIX and Pope Adrian's speech on the terrace of the avaricious. We end at a melacholy spot for one of the redeemed.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:39] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 127 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, see the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:32] Informal "you" v. formal "you."

[06:22] Two New Testament references: Apocalypse 19:9 - 10 and the Gospel of Matthew 22:23 - 30.

[10:53] The mystery of what is purified as a new plotting strategy in COMEDY.

[13:14] The sad loneliness at the end of Canto XIX.

[15:31] INFERNO XIX v. PURGATORIO XIX.

[18:09] Misreading PURGATORIO XIX as a plea for democracy.

[19:29] Reading all of Pope Adrian V's discourse: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 91 - 145.

In doing so, the pope unwittingly gives one of the most misunderstood lines in PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore more of this conversation with the first (and only) pope we meet on Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:52] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 115 - 124. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:43] Punishment v. purification . . . and their contrapasso.

[06:33] The bitterness of the pain.

[09:42] Bitterness and falconry.

[12:53] The transformation of the soul . . . momentarily stopped.

[14:06] The avaricious v. the envious.

[16:17] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 115 - 126.

On Virgil's okay, the pilgrim walks up to Pope Adrian IV . . . or at least so Dante the poet thinks. Sources vary. And interpretations, too.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the interpretive and historical knots we face on meeting our first pope since INFERNO.

If you'd like to help cover the costs of this podcast, consider donating a lump sum or even a little bit each month using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:19] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 91 - 114. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me in the comments to this episode, please find it on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:47] Two interpretive knots: what exactly you must ripen to return to God and why anyone would want to stop that ripening process.

[08:13] Dante, an architectural poet, who gives his reader three structuring questions for this conversation.

[09:31] Four possible interpretive answers to the line of Latin from the penitent.

[14:28] The identity of the speaker's family: the Fieschi from east of Genoa.

[17:00] The identity of the speaker himself: Ottobono de' Fieschi, aka Pope Adrian V (c.1215 - 1276 CE).

[20:12] Dante's possible historical mistake: Pope Adrian IV or Pope Adrian V?

[23:00] Punishment v. purification: a difficult balance in PURGATORIO.

[26:43] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 91 - 114.

One of them answers Virgil about the way up . . . and the pilgrim Dante wants to stop for a conversation.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a look at this transitional passage in PURGATORIO as we step up to meet the first of three souls on the fifth terrace of Mount Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 70 - 90. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:30] Falconry as a "transmutative art"--and the possible transmutations from classical poetry.

[09:24] The problem of being stuck to the ground.

[12:18] Our disorientation among the speakers' words.

[14:37] Virgil's (new?) concepts of justice and hope.

[17:18] A new understanding of how Purgatory works.

[19:00] PURGATORIO XIX v. INFERNO XIX.

[22:27] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 70 - 90.

Virgil again comes to the rescue. He reinterprets the dream for the pilgrim (leaving us with quite a few questions!) and commands the pilgrim to direct his eyes up to the heavens, the ultimate lure to God.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this passage that brings us to the cusp of the fifth circle of Mount Purgatory.

If you'd like to consider making a contribution to keep this podcast afloat, even a small monthly donation, please visit this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:35] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 52 - 69. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode's listing on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:23] Possible structural changes in the canto breaks in PURGATORIO.

[05:51] Dante the pilgrim as the mourner.

[07:02] The dream as a "new vision."

[09:39] The question of what exactly is "above us."

[12:22] The open interpretative space in Virgil's interpretation of Dante's dream.

[17:00] Virgil's impatience, the workings of desire, and the rocky landscape of Purgatory.

[20:02] The second major instance of falconry imagery in COMEDY.

[22:31] The heavens as the ultimate lure.

[25:10] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 52 - 69.

He's even promised the curious "ladies of consolation" as a salve for his mourning.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at a difficult passage in PURGATORIO, the journey from the fourth terrace of sloth to the fifth terrace up the mountain ahead of us.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:45] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 34 - 51. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this particular episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:59] The Bodleian manuscript's illustration of Dante's second dream in PURGATORIO.

[04:23] Dante's disorientation and his possible guilt.

[07:14] Virgil and Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane.

[09:29] Disorientation in the passage: hope and despair.

[11:28] More disorientation: an angel and the poet Dante in the tercet.

[13:06] A return to the familiarity of the plot.

[14:14] Four answers to the question of "who mourns?"

[21:42] Those curious ladies of consolation.

[26:12] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 34 - 51.

Let's take a moment to compare and contrast these two dreams. What can they tell us about the changing nature of PURGATORIO, especially given my thesis that this is a poem in process, one in which the poet is learning how to write the poem as he moves forward?

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:21] A reading of the first two dreams in PURGATORIO: Canto IX, lines 13 - 42; and Canto XIX, lines 1 - 13.

[05:11] Both dreams occur near dawn, startle the pilgrim awake, and rob the pilgrim of his free will.

[08:40] Both dreams are about (different versions) of the future.

[12:14] Both dreams have problems about who saves the pilgrim: the terrifying eagle or Virgil?

[14:20] Both dreams are full of classical imagery (with important differences in the placement of that imagery).

[16:15] Both dreams have songs: the first, outside the dream; the second, inside it.

[17:35] There are two characters in the first dream, four character in the second--allowing for a larger interpretive space in the second dream.

She begins to sing. She identifies herself as a siren. She mentions Ulysses (incorrectly?). Another lady appears and begs Virgil for help. And Virgil saves Dante (yet again).

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we parse this passage about the workings of poetry and perhaps COMEDY as a whole.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:23] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 16 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find the entry for this episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:18] Questions about free will in the dream state.

[05:27] Questions about singing (and therefore, about poetry).

[07:03] Ulysses back in Purgatorio again!

[10:30] The siren's song and possible identification.

[14:05] The holy, speedy lady.

[15:15] Her possible identifications: Beatrice, Saint Lucy, the second lady in Dante's VITA NUOVA, a whore/virgin cliché, or the holy lady of Philosophy from Boethius's CONSOLATION OF PHILOSOPHY.

[22:37] Virgil in and out of Dante's dream.

[23:51] Medieval medical remedies for lust.

[25:10] A grammatical problem in the passage.

[28:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 16 - 33.

That dream is all about desire and the male gaze. It's also about poetic space and dream space . . . and the porous nature between the two.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we start the first of two episodes on the second dream of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of the podcast WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, Lines 1 - 15. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:21] Cooling planets, fortune tellers, and the liminal space before dawn.

[06:51] References to INFERNO XX and VII in this passage.

[10:20] Canto XIX and the psalms of ascent.

[12:46] Delaying tactics at the opening of Canto XIX.

[15:07] Disgust and the "redemption" of gaze.

[18:29] Disturbing gender politics.

[19:50] Who gets to observe vs. who (or what) is observed.

[21:59] The poetic space vs. the dream space (which are not really separate)

[25:17] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIX, lines 1 - 15.

They're extraordinarily rich. Gilded, even. Which somehow fits, since these are the cantos in which the greedy purge their sin.

And we've got three incredible monologues: from a late-to-repent pope, one of the founders of the French monarchy, and Statius, the great Roman poet whose THEBIAD has been with us all along in COMEDY.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a read-through of Cantos XIX, XX, and XXI of PURGATORIO before we begin our slow walk along this most dangerous terrace.

After that, the pilgrim Dante has a new thought--curiously undefined--which leads him into his second dream in PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we finish off Canto XVIII and leave our pilgrim to his slumbers.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:30] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 130 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:16] Virgil, but only in periphrasis.

[07:27] Two warnings: one Biblical and one classical (from The Aeneid!).

[11:27] The connection between fear and sloth.

[13:41] The pilgrim's new thought: possibly Beatrice?

[18:01] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 1130 - 145.

As these frantic souls pass by, one of them speaks a brave truth about Dante the poet's primary patron, a fierce warlord who has sheltered the poet on the run but whose family may not be all they're cracked up to be.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through this amazing passage of PURGATORIO, a plea to not hesitate when it comes to speaking truth to power.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider a small monthly donation or a one-time gift by using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:32] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines n97 - 129. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode in the list of episodes for this podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:09] There are two admonitions for purposeful haste: Mary and Julius Caesar.

[09:46] An address to the penitents . . . from Virgil.

[11:00] Virgil clouds our definition of sloth . . . and perhaps our understanding of his place in PURGATORIO.

[15:47] The Abbott of San Zeno tells of the fall of his monastery into chaos (as well as Milan's fall into chaos).

[21:00] Hurry up and speak truth to power.

[24:12] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 97 - 129.

But don't get too sleepy, Dante. You can get run over by the slothful, all at a full gallop in a Bacchic frenzy.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we return to the plot after Virgil's discourses on love, here on the fourth terrace of Mount Purgatory.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift at this PayPal link right here.

These are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 76 - 96. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:39] The complicated opening passage about the moon and the time of night.

[13:38] Virgil and the values of chivalry.

[16:41] Directionality and the penitents of Purgatory.

[20:32] The Bacchic penance of the slothful.

[23:12] The pilgrim's sleepy, poetic imagination.

[24:41] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 76 - 96.

This is a complicated passage with lots of historical resonances, particularly from Aristotle and Plato (as understood through Aquinas). It'll take us some work to unpack it, but we'll get very close to our modern understanding of ethics.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the last of Virgil's major discourses.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, you can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:13] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 49 - 75. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[05:12] The various notions of Aristotelean causality in the passage: material and necessary causes, as well as the nature of "substance."

[11:59] Material causes and substantial forms.

[14:59] A misinterpretation of the substance and material in the passage that has infected the commentary on COMEDY for centuries.

[17:44] The desire for primary things and Virgil's misunderstanding.

[23:24] Virgil's (and Dante's) definition of reason and our understanding of ethics from it.

[28:35] Reason's results: ethics.

[29:41] A logic flaw in Virgil's argument.

[33:13] Marco of Lombardy vs. Virgil.

[36:19] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 49 - 75.

Let's look at the pilgrim's second question to Virgil's discourse on love and talk about the complex ways Beatrice and even physical desire operate in the poem.

I'm Mark Scarbrough. Thanks for coming on the journey with me.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, you can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:19] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 40 - 48. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:47] To understand Dante's concept of love, void the Renaissance and Romanticism out of your thinking.

[09:48] An impregnated pilgrim brings up the sexual basis of desire (or love).

[12:50] The pilgrim asks a crucial question for any religion: How am I responsible?

[15:22] The allegory of Virgil and Beatrice comes close, even while Beatrice remains a physical draw for desire.

[19:01] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 40 - 48.

This passage is one of the most complex in PURGATORIO. Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take apart its claims and some of the translation problems both from the poetry's concision and the seismic change in thought after the Enlightenment.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE;

[01:56] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 19 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:30] A few things to admit before we start.

[08:00] The three steps or stages of love.

[14:01] The problem of translating "anima."

[17:26] Basic claims in Virgil's second discourse.

[23:17] Problems with these claims--and how Dante the poet solves them.

[29:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 19 - 39.

But the pilgrim is less than satisfied. He wants Virgil to continue on, to show his work for these complex syllogisms.

And Dante the poet is not done with Virgil either, given the mirrored structure of cantos XVII and XVIII.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we move beyond the mid-point of COMEDY and our pilgrim asks for more about how love is the seed of all human actions.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many costs and fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating what you can at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:19] Human love, like PURGATORIO itself, is a liminal space.

[06:03] Dante the poet leans heavily into Virgil's truth-telling, scholastic credentials.

[09:24] Canto XVIII is wrapped by the word "new."

[11:28] Dante's interiority gives way to the poem's interiority!

[13:33] The damned Virgil is a source of light, like the angels.

[15:03] The pilgrim asks Virgil to show his work and perhaps overstates Virgil's argument about love.

[19:10] Virgil lambasts the blind guides . . . who may be religious figures or also poets who refuse to write in the vernacular.

[21:27] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVIII, lines 1 - 18.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I walk you through the first half of PURGATORIO one more time, mostly to remind you where we've been, but also to make sure we all understand the majestic, imaginative sweep of this canticle so far (and this poem so far).

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, with a one-time donation or even a small monthly contribution, you can do so at this PayPal link right here. Thank you so much for your support . . . in donations, in questions, in connections on social media, and on my website, markscarbrough.com.

But it's a strange end since Virgil admits to what he doesn't know. Having been so certain about how human behavior operates, he concludes by telling Dante the pilgrim he's on his own to find out further answers.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we conclude Virgil's astoundingly certain discourse on love with an ironic, ambiguous moment.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:41] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 127 - 139. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:31] A secondary motivation for human behavior: quiet (or peace).

[07:22] A pronoun ambiguity in the passage.

[09:23] The temporary nature of the cornices of Purgatory.

[11:14] Virgil and the core ambiguity in PURGATORIO.

[12:29] The problem of too much love.

[13:55] Love and the things Virgil cannot know.

[16:29] Rereading all of Virgil's discourse on love: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 91 - 139.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Virgil's scholastic understanding of all human action and his vision of love as the seed of all that we do.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 106 - 126. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:08] Virgil's scholastic background in the text.

[08:01] Virgil's two premises: no one can hate their own self or the first cause (that is, God).

[11:33] Virgil's understanding of the three terraces of Purgatory below us.

[16:12] Can Virgil be a scholastic thinker? What do we make of this very oracular Virgil?

[20:39] Virgil's argument is less a celebration of Aquinas and more one of Aristotle.

[22:48] Love may move the fence, but love doesn't tear down the fence.

[26:46] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 106 - 126.

Virgil's explosive claim about love lies at the center of the poem: We do right and we go wrong because of the seed of love.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the beginning of Virgil's central discourse in COMEDY, an overwhelming statement about human motivation and the nature of God.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many costs of this podcast, please consider donating at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:43] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 91 - 105. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:57] Virgil's explosive claim: love is the seed of all human action.

[05:27] Virgil's scholastic divisions of love.

[08:38] A translation problem: "o naturale o d'anima."

[12:40] Virgil's understand of the two types of love.

[14:59] Virgil's odd repetition of his own argument.

[18:27] The basis of Dante's thought: the Bible, Aristotle, and Aquinas.

[27:27] Dante's source: William Perault's SUMMA DE VITIIS ET VIRTURTIBUS. (Ugh, my Latin pronunciation!)

[29:16] But what then of the fall in the Garden of Eden?

[30:59] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 91 - 105.

Dante and Virgil reach the top of the stairs just as night falls and the pilgim loses all possibility of forward momentum. He hesitates--from sloth?--and turns to Virgil--still damned!--to explain where they are.

Virgil, the guide of Purgatory. It's still as shocking as it was sixteen cantos ago!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we stop at the cusp of the fourth terrace of Purgatory proper.

Would you like to help underwrite the many costs of this podcast? You can do so with a donation at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 73 - 90. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:12] What truce has been called when it comes to the pilgrim's legs? And why does this fourth terrace of Purgatory seem so very silent and empty?

[07:33] Is Dante the pilgrim hesitant? Or slothful?

[08:59] Why is Virgil's explanation of the terrace so opaque, so poetic?

[10:25] Is COMEDY beginning to value opacity?

[12:37] What is the medieval understanding of sloth? How would Dante define it?

[17:26] How does PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, match two cantos in INFERNO (XI and XVII)?

[21:02] Reading the passage again: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 73 - 90.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a read-through of this terrace, starting at Canto XVII, Line 73 (or back three lines perhaps for a running start) through the end of Canto XVIII (at Line 145).

We'll hear Virgil's great discourse on love as well as Dante's encounter with the racing slothful.

Would you like to help underwrite the costs of this podcast? You can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:11] A read-through of my rough (!) English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, line 73, through Canto XVIII, line 145.

[14:21] Some initial thoughts about Virgil's discourse on love and the terrace of the slothful.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore these last moments on Purgatory's terrace of the wrathful before we find ourselves again among the stars.

If you'd like to help with the many fees associated with this podcast, you can offer a small, monthly stipend or even a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:41] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 40 - 72. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:16] A dizzying interplay about light: physical/metaphysical, imaginary/revelatory, sunrise/sunset, illuminating/concealing.

[06:46] Desire and the necessary (physical) fulfillment: a lead-in to what's ahead on the journey.

[08:37] Virgil's reply, a pastiche of Biblical and classical sources.

[12:37] The beatitude that ends this terrace, plus a non-Biblical addition to it that then complicates our notion of anger.

[16:51] Stars and the center of COMEDY.

[17:39] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 40 - 72.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at these visions and try to come to terms with the problem that Dante's rage may sit at the very center of COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, please consider donating a very small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:11] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:13] Connecting this passage with the previous hymn to the imagination.

[07:37] A review of the first three ecstatic visions in Canto XV at the entrance to the terrace of anger.

[09:46] The first vision (from Ovid's METAMORPHOSES): a (garbled?) reduction of the Philomela, Procne, and Tereus story.

[16:31] The second vision (from the Bible): Ahasuerus, Esther, Mordecai, and Haman.

[20:37] The third vision (from THE AENEID: Queen Amata and her daughter, Lavinia.

[25:00] Dante's rage as the center of COMEDY.

[29:24] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 19 - 39.

If you'd like to help underwrite the fees for this podcast, please consider donating a small monthly stipend or a one-time gift using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:26] The first canto in COMEDY that opens with a direct address to the reader may help us understand the reader that Dante has in mind for his poem.

[05:50] The smoke of anger becomes a fog and mist, which then becomes clouds, all of which happens as poetic space overlays poetic space in a metaphoric tour de force.

[10:08] Aristotle (and Aquinas) argued that the imagination is only based on sensory input.

[13:09] Dante may well disagree, offering the imagination as a mechanism of revelation.

[17:51] Dante begins to claim that his own poem is divinely inspired.

[20:58] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, lines 1 - 18.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at Marco's speech in PURGATORIO in its entirety.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:28] Rereading all of Marco of Lombardy's speech in my English translation: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 46 - 145. The separate passages of this speech can be found among the former episodes of this podcast.

[07:09] Why is Marco's speech so heavily cribbed?

[09:47] Why is Marco himself an opaque historical figure?

[13:01] Why does Marco's discourse move from personal space to metaphoric space and back to personal space?

[15:16] Is Marco's speech really theological?

[19:43] Who "convened" the laws and leader that Marco wants?

[22:52] Is the point of Marco's speech to give Dante permission to preach about corruption?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for a fascinating deep dive into the end of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees associated with this podcast, please consider donating a one-time gift or a small monthly stipend using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:33] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, Lines 130 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:10] The pilgrim Dante disallows land holdings for the papacy, based on Marco's reasoning.

[05:45] PURGATORIO, Canto XVI returns to Torah at its end, offering the argument deep, long-standing ballast.

[08:00] Gaia, Gherardo's daughter, has long been a troubling figure in commentary.

[10:45] What does this conversational coda to Marco's disquisition on free will do for the poem COMEDY as a whole?

[13:23] Why do the penitents work through anger in a lightless smoke?

[16:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 130 - 145.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore a big chunk of Marco's reasoning about the world's ills. He said it was in us. But he seems to claim it's more systemic than personal.

Consider donating a one-time gift or perhaps a small monthly stipend to cover the costs of this podcast. You can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:45] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:29] The papacy is not--or cannot be--kosher.

[07:36] Pastoral metaphoric space unifies the passage.

[09:30] Our nature is NOT corrupted?

[12:46] The papacy v. the empire: Dante's dilemma.

[18:26] The papacy v. the empire: the dilemma of Dante's age.

[21:17] Marco's argument moves back into personal space: his own Lombardy.

[22:48] Three good men are left on the Italian peninsula.

[26:10] These three good men are in contrast to the gluten Ciacco's two witnesses in INFERNO, Canto VI.

[29:36] The church of Rome isn't in Rome anymore!

[31:44] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 97 - 129.

His discussion takes a wild turn: a developmental hypothesis of the soul as a little girl, a scheme that may or may not nix original sin from Christian theology.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this complicated passage at almost the very heart of COMEDY.

If you'd like to help underwrite the many fees for this podcast, either with a one-time donation or with a little bit each month as a stipend, please consider doing so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:38] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 85 - 96. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find the entry for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:04] A passage from Dante's CONVIVIO that is the basis for some of this passage in COMEDY (CONVIVIO, Book IV, chapter xii, lines 14 - 17.)

[10:37] Dante's developmental hypothesis about the soul.

[15:35] Dante's understanding of the soul as a little girl, to confirm the heteronormative desire that is the basis of creation/being.

[20:02] Answers to whether Dante jettisons the notion of original sin: 1) yes, 2) no, 3) only here, or 4) Dante's doesn't but Marco does.

[26:42] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 85 - 96.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this central passage in COMEDY, a grand statement of the Christian paradox of free will.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast through a one-time donation or via a small monthly stipend, please consider doing so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 64 - 84. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this podcast entry on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:15] A justification for how this episode works.

[06:00] The conflation of anger and affection in the texture of the passage.

[08:49] Marco's teamwork with Guido del Duca, back among the envious.

[10:02] Human feelings as the proof for free will.

[13:27] One impetus to behavior (the zodiac signs) with two initial gifts (light and free will).

[15:22] Two outs for free will: the battles against those astrological signs and proper nourishment. (But not Satan or the demons!)

[19:48] Free will and God's control: the breadth of Dante's pasture.

[28:03] The cause of evil: humans. The truth of God: transcendence.

[31:17] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 64 - 84.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore Dante's question to Marco before we turn to Marco's central discourse, the very middle of the great masterwork COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:48] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 52 - 63. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this specific episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:21] Dante's question assumes the values of chivalry.

[08:34] Can the redeemed instigate doubt?

[10:36] Dante ties Marco's snark back to Guido del Duca's nostalgia.

[13:19] COMEDY's new motivation is to bring back the answers.

[14:36] Dante's quandary is astrological, not truly theological (per se).

[17:00] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 52 -63.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the pilgrim's flatteries, the penitent's abrupt nature, and the questions of beauty that begin to dominate COMEDY itself.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:10] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 25 - 51. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:35] Is Marco still angry? Abrupt? What his deal with cutting and segmenting?

[08:21] Virgil is all about the destination in a canticle all about process.

[10:31] Dante the pilgrim is becoming the wonder of the poem. And he's beginning to connect beauty with ethics.

[14:57] At first, Marco probably is walking toward (not with) Dante and Virgil.

[17:19] Dante's answer to Marco seems to indicate that he now is indeed Aeneas and Paul (as opposed to how he felt in INFERNO, Canto II).

[21:20] The erratic plotting of PURGATORIO positions this canticle between INFERNO and PARADISO.

[25:05] Who is Marco of Lombardy? And is that even his name?

[27:06] Marco of Lombardy is connected to Ulysses (from INFERNO, Canto XXVI).

[29:28] Marco asks Dante the pilgrim to pray for him, a distinct change from those who've come before.

[31:14] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 25 - 51.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin to explore the third terrace of Purgatory proper along with Dante and his guide, Virgil.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:35] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:35] The fiftieth canto of COMEDY is the darkest canto of them all.

[05:24] Is the smoke of anger "contrapasso," as the punishments of hell were?

[08:41] Can Virgil see in the smoke?

[11:57] The line the penitents chant in unison is one of the oldest texts in the Mass.

[15:25] Dante well understands anger as a knot.

[19:27] Dante the poet shows an understanding of modern plot structure.

[21:02] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XVI, lines 1 - 24.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the definitions and inside-the-poem problems of anger.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:22] Anger is the first sin or human failing found overtly in both INFERNO (at cantos VII and VIII) and PURGATORIO (at cantos XV - XVII).

[08:14] Dante's earlier thoughts on an answer to wrath in CONVIVIO.

[12:10] Why is calling anger a sin such a problem in Christian theology?

[16:02] Comparing INFERNO, Cantos XV and XVI, with PURGATORIO, Cantos XV and XVI.

[21:00] Frederick Buechner's definition of anger from WISHFUL THINKING: A SEEKER'S ABC.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we read through the passages that make up this terrace, starting back at PURGATORIO, Canto XV, line 85 (through parts of Canto XV we've already covered) and on to PURGATORIO, Canto XVII, line 72.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast to cover its many fees, please consider donating at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:53] My rough English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, line 85 through Canto XVII, line 72. This translation is not found on my website. Rather, just sit back and listen to its sweep before we begin to take it apart.

[17:37] Initial questions about the third terrace of anger.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this rare moment of levity after such intense visions. The pacing slows down and Virgil offers kind advice about getting on their way, maybe two more answers to the problem of anger.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 115 - 145. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:31] Dante the poet offers a humorous moment in PURGATORIO--and perhaps another antidote to the problem of anger.

[05:41] Does Virgil know what Dante has seen in his visions or only that Dante has had visions? Is Virgil cagey? If so, why? If not, what's his point?

[09:26] A pastoral scene dissolves into ominous, inescapable smoke that itself encapsulates the problem of anger.

[12:02] What exactly are Dante's "not erroneous errors" or "unfalse errors"?

[15:12] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 115 - 145.

We're able then to identify the sin or human failing for this terrace: anger (or wrath). And we're able to glean some very human answers Dante proposes to this very human failing.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the second and third ecstatic vision at the start of the terrace of wrath.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:45] My English translation of the medieval Florentine. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:59] The sin or human failing for the third terrace identified by name: anger (or wrath).

[06:48] The second ecstatic vision: Pisistratus and his wife.

[14:49] The third ecstatic vision: the martyrdom of Stephen.

[17:57] The third vision ends with references to The Gospel Of Matthew, chapter 5, the source of the beatitudes in PURGATORIO.

[19:36] The antidote to anger: found in the countenance.

[22:40] Rereading this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 94 - 114.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the first vision on the third terrace of Purgatory, the opening salvo to the true middle of the great poem COMEDY.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 85 - 93. If you'd like to read along to continue the conversation, please find this episode of my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:07] A vision of the Virgin Mary at the door, speaking in medieval Florentine.

[06:14] The changes in the Biblical story of Mary's leaving the young Jesus behind in Jerusalem and returning to find him.

[09:29] The importance of the possessive pronoun she uses: "my son."

[11:52] The paradox with "ecstatic visions" in COMEDY.

[16:16] The light of an ecstatic vision in transparent or empty space.

[21:43] Two little boys in Canto XV: the sun in the sky and Jesus in Mary's eyes.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this continuation of Virgil's lesson between the second and third terraces of Purgatory proper. As we leave the envious behind, Virgil offers us a lesson in the unending and multiplying faculty of love.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:41] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 58 - 84. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:28] The food and agrarian imagery in the passage: desire and its satisfaction.

[08:18] The light imagery in this passage: links back to the opening of Canto XV, as well as to Aquinas' SUMMA and Dante's own CONVIVIO.

[14:58] Profit: the motive or idea of multiplicity has been in Canto XV all along.

[16:31] Virgil: a character of Dante the poet's mouthpiece?

[20:38] The plot returns (sort of) by a redefinition of the problem of pain.

[24:28] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 58 - 84.

They hear two snippets of song. They find the climb easier. And Dante asks Virgil to gloss two lines Guido del Duca said back in Canto XIV. All these things indicate the shifting the nature of COMEDY itself as we enter its middle cantos.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this passage about the climb to the third terrace and see the shifting nature of COMEDY's audience and purpose.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 34 - 57. If you'd like to read along or continue the converation with me, please find this specific episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:31] An increasing emphasis on transitional figures and a more overt allegory in COMEDY as a whole.

[08:15] Two bits of song: a fragment of a beatitude in Latin (from Matthew 5:7) and an exhortation in medieval Florentine.

[12:07] The question who sings these two phrases.

[15:13] The shifting dynamic in COMEDY to the correction, not of behavior, but of the mind.

[18:44] Virgil's gloss on scarcity and abundance, as well as the civic threat of envy.

[26:42] The problem of the audience for Guido's (and Virgil's!) speech.

[30:45] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 34 - 57.

And just as the poet pulls off that trick, Virgil also redefines the very terms on which PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, ended, as he undertakes a reassessment of "pleasure" or "delight."

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this key passage in the on-going struggle to translate what seems into what is.

If you'd like to help underwrite this podcast, please consider a one-time or even monthly donation using this PayPal link right here. Every bit helps with streaming, licensing, hosting, editing, royalty, and domain fees.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] My English translation of this short passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 25 - 33. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:29] Virgil redefines "pleasure" or "delight," a word from the end of Canto XIV.

[04:28] The passage also redefines the source (or refraction?) of the light.

[07:22] Virgil remains the central redefinition in all of PURGATORIO.

[08:24] A three-step structural notion of spiritual progress in PURGATORIO: "outside us," "inside us," and "above us."

[14:00] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 25 - 33.

These passages begin the brilliant fun of the second half of the poem. Dante begins to play with meaning, poetics, and metaphor as never before, challenging us and pushing us into a spot of disorientation, all the while bringing us to a spot of revelation.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we see the sun as never before in the opening lines of PURGATORIO, Canto XV. Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:19] My English translation of this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or to continue the conversation with me, please find this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:37] PURGATORIO Canto XV is a liminal canto, existing between disorientation and revelation.

[13:58] Two unique words in COMEDY in this opening passage (that is, two hapax legomena).

[17:19] Telling time by the sun and playing around with it, as it plays around in the sky.

[22:18] The sun and blindness at the opening and closing of our time on the terrace of the envious.

[24:56] Medieval science that can reformulate the plot into poetic language.

[28:30] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XV, lines 1 - 24.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we see Virgil come into his own in Purgatory.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:33] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 142 - 151. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:28] The bit, the rein, and the lure: in the passage at hand and in medieval iconography.

[07:55] The question of what and how Virgil knows and can know the mechanics of Purgatory.

[14:00] Refocusing the cantos of the envious.

[16:52] Circularity inscribed into linearity.

[21:51] Pain, redemption, and interpretation.

[26:49] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 142 - 151.

Lo and behold, they're struck by two voices, just as they were when they got up to this terrace. This time, it's Cain and Aglauros, speaking on the wind.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we begin to conclude our time with the envious and encounter a Biblical and a classical voice to warn us of the final dangers of envy.

If you'd like to help support this podcast by underwriting its streaming, licensing, hosting, and domain fees, please consider donating whatever you can using this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:23] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 127 - 141. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find the entry for this podcast episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:46] Silence, then the first departing voice from the terrace of the envious: Cain, after his fratricide and banishment.

[09:35] The second departing voice from the terrace of envy: Aglauros, from Ovid's METAMORPHOSES.

[15:37] Dante sidesteps toward Virgil, an unusual move.

[17:49] Comparing and contrasting the four voices on the wind along the terrace of the envious.

[21:07] Is nostalgia an appropriate response to social inequality and its prompting of envy?

[24:58] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 127 - 141.

Is this Dante the poet's lament? Or Guido del Duca's? Does this passage tell us more about Guido's problems or Dante's hopes?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through a tough passage about historical figures from Romagna, many of whom have been lost to the historical record.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 97 - 126. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment on this passage, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:49] The genre: "ubi sunt?" But whose? Guido del Duca's or Dante the poet's?

[09:26] The structure of this passage: good people, to good families (without children), to bad town, to childless warlords.

[14:47] The nostalgic diatribe becomes infernal.

[16:59] More play with bestial and vegetal metaphors (as throughout Canto XIV).

[19:19] The trap of chivalry.

[22:28] Guido del Duca finally finds delight in his laments: the key problem.

[25:28] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 97 - 126.

Dante is nothing but cagey in the rhetorical games he's playing. He's demanding more and more out of his reader. And rightly so, given the complexity of COMEDY up to this point.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look through this passage in which these envious souls reveal who they are and we discover the underlying politics of the passage among the envious on the second terrace of Purgatory proper.

If you'd like to help support this podcast by donating to cover its many fees, including streaming, hosting, and licensing, please consider giving whatever you can (even a small amount per month) via this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:15] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, Lines 73 - 96. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please do so under this episode on my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:22] Who is Guido del Duca, a Ghibelline warlord from Romagna?

[06:40] Who is Rinier (or Rinieri) da Calboli, a Guelph warlord from Romagna?

[09:08] Who is Fulcieri da Calboli, the bloody hunter previously mentioned?

[11:13] Two questions for this passage: Is the political strife between these two healed . . . or being healed? And why are these warlords among the envious?

[13:04] What details in this passage help us to understand its nuances?

[21:21] When exactly does Dante's journey take place?

[25:38] Rereading the scope of PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, from line 10 to line 96.

It was apparently the wrong thing to do . . . because one of the envious penitents is going to pick up the pilgrim's (and the poet's?) rhetorical games and push them much further into fully metaphoric space that is also somehow prophetic space, a diatribe against Tuscan corruption that borders on the incomprehensible at this moment before the speakers are named in Purgatorio XIV.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we play with truth and metaphor in the increasingly complex landscape of Purgatory.

If you'd like to help you, please consider donating to support this podcast's many fees. You can do so at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:41] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 43 - 72. If you'd like to read along or even continue the conversation about this passage, please see the page on my website for this episode at markscarbrough.com.

[04:11] The standard interpretation of the allegory of the Arno valley.

[08:59] One more level of complexity: the personification of the Arno.

[11:02] A third level of complexity: so much periphrasis!

[12:32] A fourth level of complexity: a beast fable added to the rhetorical strategy (hello, Sapía!).

[13:34] A fifth level of complexity: fraud, the end stop of the Arno and INFERNO.

[15:06] A final level of complexity: The Old Man Of Crete in INFERNO XIV.

[16:33] The interpretive or rhetorical muddle after the allegory of the Arno.

[18:18] The bloody nephew's rampage: a metaphoric space.

[26:56] The pay-off of intimacy?

[29:52] Possible blasphemy in the high-level poetics.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore more about the two envious souls who interrupt Dante's journey around the second terrace of Purgatory proper.

Please consider helping this podcast stay sponsor-free. You can help me with its many fees by donating at this PayPal link right here.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:23] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 22 - 42. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find the entry for this episode of the podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:23] Dante's cagey periphrasis about the Arno may not have paid off.

[07:00] The first envious penitent is bestialized as he fastens his teeth into the meat of Dante's intentions.

[09:49] These penitent shades have lots of debt, even though one soul launches into a typical Dantean diatribe against Tuscany.

[14:43] How can good things happen in a fallen world? Only by moving the fence.

[16:55] Two inset tercets show the changing nature (or fence?) of COMEDY from a theological poem to an encyclopedic one.

[21:59] This passage contains the third and final use in COMEDY of a word for "snake."

[25:55] The problem with the diatribe is that is seems to remove culpability from humans . . . or at least, Tuscans.

[28:55] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 22 - 42.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this new thing: the opening of a canto in COMEDY in which unnamed (and unknowable!) souls just starting talking out of the blue. Be on guard. They may not be all they seem at first blush.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:34] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 1 - 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this passage, please find this individual episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:31] Two penitent souls interrupt the action of PURGATORIO.

[06:00] The opening of canto XIV is a new thing in COMEDY, much as Sapía has identified Dante the pilgrim as a new thing in her world.

[08:19] There are two curious words in this opening dialogue: "our" and "sweetly."

[11:45] These two spirits are apparently quite intimate with each other. Will that intimacy pay off?

[12:50] One of the envious penitents divides Dante's soul from his body . . . and uses Dante's own words to address him.

[15:41] Dante is quite cagey when he answers their question, all the while putting his soul and body back together.

[20:16] Dante replies with one of his own favorite rhetorical techniques: periphrasis. Elsewhere in COMEDY, Dante is pretty forthcoming about his origins.

[22:53] Is Dante modest? Or cagey? Or "just" truthful?

[28:41] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIV, lines 1 - 21.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we talk about the increasingly complex ironies found in one of the most compelling souls in all of Dante's COMEDY.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:23] Reading the entire passage with Sapia: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 85 - 154.

[05:58] If they're playing a rhetorical game, Dante the pilgrim started it.

[06:54] The structure of their exchange: his flattery--her truth (sort of)--his truth (sort of)--her request.

[09:23] The envious are hard to pick out from their landscape. Is that a thematic or even rhetorical problem?

[10:20] Sapía's discourse is either textured with irony or incredibly uneven. Why?

[12:17] PURGATORIO XIII has many parallels with INFERNO XIII.

[17:10] Moments in Sapía's passage to keep in mind for PURGATORIO XIV ahead.

She, too, is caught in her own rhetoric: getting what she wants but ultimately revealing herself as a soul who still has a lot more purgation ahead.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the final words of one of the most intriguing characters in PURGATORIO, if not in all of COMEDY.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[00:58] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 133 - 154. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please find the comment section for this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:18] Dante's reply to Sapía is both cagey and confessional. Did she manipulate him into this ambiguous spot?

[09:27] Does Sapía misunderstand his place in the afterlife? But how can she, since she's already figured out that he's breathing?

[13:03] She turns his confession of pride into . . . comedy or flattery?

[14:12] Her changing notions of prayer exemplify the theological problems of prayer as a Christian act. Meanwhile, she lets the pilgrim know that she's figured him out even more.

[19:36] Sapía is going to spend a lot more time on the terrace of the envious, given her joy over Siena's misfortunes.

[24:59] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 133 - 154.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look closely at one of the most honest and blasphemous monologues in the poem . . . and as we grapple with Sapía's incredible skills in rhetoric.

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Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:39] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 112 - 132. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:56] Indicators of Sapía's interiority.

[07:48] Her reaction to the Sienese battle of 17 June 1269.

[10:40] Sapía's right attitude toward God's will.

[12:41] One of the most blasphemous lines in all of COMEDY.

[14:54] Lighthearted folkloric storytelling amid her shocking honesty.

[18:48] The holy man who saves her: Peter Comb-Seller (or "Pettinaio").

[22:09] Honesty or manipulation?

[23:22] The logic of her monologue.

[25:13] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 112 - 132.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as I work our first sight of one of the most intricate souls in COMEDY: Sapía. She's a lot more than Dante bargained for.

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Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 94 - 111. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please go to the page about this podcast on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:02] The penitent envious soul schools Dante the pilgrim by reassessing their relationship, both by family and by politics.

[05:53] Pilgrims choose to be other, to be strangers in a foreign land.

[09:19] Dante the poet focuses on the naturalistic details in an otherwise hyper-moral passage.

[11:35] Dante the pilgrim is apparently not teachable at the moment . . . . except he does understand the work of the will in Purgatory.

[14:30] The penitent soul identifies herself reticently . . . only by name and city.

[19:38] Her reticence is found in a generous canto full of explanations.

[20:55] One generosity: Sapía offers a succinct definition of envy.

[24:49] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 94 - 111.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we approach on of the most significant and curious figures in all of COMEDY. Dante the pilgrim will call for her in this passage . . . and she'll make her appearance in the next passage/episode.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:57] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, Lines 73 - 93. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:05] Does Dante think he makes a social gaffe?

[07:40] Is Virgil irritated at Dante's reaction?

[09:48] Is this an allegorical passage or a naturalistic one? Are we being played?

[14:45] Is Dante's flattery misplaced?

[19:19] Is Dante's flattery predictive of the poem ahead?

[22:41] How much irony textures this passage?

[25:28] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 73 - 93.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the first moments in which Dante sees the penitents ahead . . . and delays until the last moment revealing their fate: eyelids stitched shut with wires.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[00:55] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 46 - 72. If you'd like to read along or continue the discussion with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:28] Dante the pilgrim, the livid shades of the envious, and fragmentary prayers in the vernacular.

[05:52] Compassion: apparently a virtue of enforced scarcity.

[07:51] Envy, interiority, and externality.

[09:42] The tried-and-true answers to envy: love, yes; but also uniformity.

[13:25] The long wind-up to the revelation of the penitents' pain.

[17:30] Dante's (false) etymology of envy and a folkloric explanation of the sin.

[21:51] Two callbacks: 1) Provenzan Salvani and 2) the allegorical and/or naturalistic sun.

[23:51] The biggest callback of all: to Pier della Vigna and Frederick II in INFERNO XIII.

[25:21] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 46 - 72.

Sounds great, right? Except there's so much alienation in the landscape and even in the poetry.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take our first steps onto the second terrace of PURGATORIO with Dante and Virgil.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:19] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 22 - 45. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please visit my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:54] Three disembodied voices on the second terrace of PURGATORIO: quotes from the Virgin Mary, Orestes (maybe?), and Jesus.

[13:25] Voices moving from the left, not right!

[15:26] Envy: a root sin, sometimes seen as the primary sin, even by Dante.

[18:59] The schematics of Purgatory, as intuited by Virgil.

[22:03] Disembodied voices and the problem of alienation.

[26:28] The distance (and alienation) between Dante and Virgil.

[32:36] A rereading of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 22 - 45.

Instead, Dante the poet offers us rather straightforward, naturalistic details, a complex neologism (a new word he coined), a crazy line that has many interpretations possible, and then a pagan prayer in the afterlife of the redeemed.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we walk into the second terrace and immediately stumble over what at first glance looks like a fairly simple passage. That's why we're slow-walking across Dante's known universe!

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Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:09] My English translation of PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 1- 21. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:22] The naturalistic, straightforward details complete with a surprising neologism (or newly coined word).

[08:12] A deeply ambiguous line smack in the middle of rather simple details.

[12:02] Virgil's haste and his internalization of Cato's ethic, as well as Dante's increasingly complicated relationship with the old poet.

[15:29] Virgil's pagan prayer to the sun.

[23:40] My take: Virgil, the pagan, makes a full appearance here on the second terrace of Purgatory.

[29:02] Virgil, blinded.

[31:42] A rereading of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, lines 1 - 21.

We have to take this detour because Dante will increasingly incorporate scientific reasoning into his poem, changing its very nature, based on his understanding of Aristotle, which is in turn based on the work of Islamic and Jewish scholars from the Iberian caliphates.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at this complicated history of thought and how it finally lands in COMEDY.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:46] The collapse of the Umayyad caliphate and the inception of the Iberian schools of learning.

[07:33] The discomfort with Aristotle at the University of Paris.

[14:33] Classical Greek leaning and the disruption and/or incorporation into medieval Christianity.

[17:30] If God is the author of all truth, then how does any truth whatsoever show up in the works of a pagan philosopher?

[21:10] How does inductive truth make any sense in a deductive religion?

[25:38] COMEDY is changing from an allegorical journey of a soul across the known universe to a poetic compendium of known truth.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this initial read-through of the terrace, beginning at the first line of PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, and extending to line 84 of PURGATORIO, Canto XV.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:54] A read-through of the second terrace of Purgatory proper: PURGATORIO, Canto XIII, Line 1, through Canto XV, Line 84.

[24:37] Initial questions for the terrace of envy.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the interpretive dilemmas and philosophical quagmires of the final moments on the terrace of pride, the first of the terraces of Purgatory proper in Dante's PURGATORIO.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:12] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 118 - 139. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:36] The climb in hell and in Purgatory both involve the notion of a throat.

[06:44] Pride is the primary sin and delight is the primary motivation forward. But has it always been this way in COMEDY?

[12:57] Canto XII ends on a light-hearted note . . . perhaps for poetic reasons.

[16:32] First hard question: Is Dante the pilgrim truly expunged of pride?

[19:51] Second hard question: Has Dante the poet moved the fence of his world to include himself in his own schematics?

[24:56] Third hard question: Why does God's writing have to be erased?

[30:53] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 118 - 139.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the climb out in this most difficult simile.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:42] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 100 - 117. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:18] The giant simile about the staircase up to San Miniato al Monte and to the second terrace of Purgatory.

[08:50] Four reasons why this simile is so difficult (and perhaps contorted).

[13:29] The body/soul problem once again that ends with the first of the beatitudes.

[15:50] The inescapable landscape of hell.

[19:23] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 100 - 117.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we watch Virgil reassert this role as the guide and see another of the epic angels in Purgatory.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:22] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 73 - 99. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:47] Virgil returns to being Virgil: a guide to the afterlife who quote himself.

[08:08] Virgil and the angel both seem to set the plot in motion again.

[11:19] Virgil seems more interested in what's ahead and less interested in the reliefs and carvings. In fact, he seems to mistake the lesson from those carvings: Some days, like Trajan's, happen again and again in an eternal art form.

[14:08] The strength of COMEDY is that the complex always resolves into the simple.

[16:17] Irony: Virgil's "simple" ethic contains a Dantean neologism.

[17:20] The beautiful angel contains an implicit and perhaps redemptive reference to Lucifer (or Satan).

[21:11] Who speaks the condemnation against humanity? The angel or Dante the poet?

[25:54] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 73 - 99.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the last passage on the theory of art for this terrace of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 64 - 72.

[02:40] Dante seems to double down on the artistic claims of the terrace of pride.

[05:52] Dante reminds us that we're reading an allegorical (and anagogical) poem.

[10:16] Humans create their moral truths by telling lies.

[16:21] Rereading the passage: Purgatorio, Canto XII, lines 64 - 72.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we run through this entire complicated passage in PURGATORIO.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:12] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 22 - 63. If you'd like to read along, print it off, or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[04:18] Biblical, classical, and historical figures flatten the interpretive landscape. Is Ovid of an equal weight to the Bible?

[06:33] The passage is an acrostic poem: each tercet starts with a specific letter, here to spell out "man." But does that rhetorical technique actually work for this passage? Are these all "men"? Or even humans?

[10:05] The tercets are thematically in sets of four: the judgment of God, of the self, and of others. Again, doesn't that flatten the moral landscape?

[12:46] Do the penitents have to be this learned to glean the intended lesson? And is this the sum total of the reliefs on the terrace? Or are there more?

[15:13] How can you be guilty of pride against or toward a God you don't know?

[18:12] Where do these figures fit in hell? And while we're at it, where does pride fit in hell?

[21:29] Why does this passage end with Troy, the noble city?

[22:53] Why is this fake ekphrastic poetry?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look through this last passage on the reliefs in the road bed. There are still plenty of surprises under our feet!

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Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:24] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 49 - 60. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please visit my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:42] The final figures in the hard pavement: Alcmeon (and Eriphyle), Sennacherib, Tomyris (and Cyrus), and Holofernes (and Judith).

[11:16] The craft of the passage: children killing their parents v. women killing warlords, sacred spaces v. profane/political slaughter, occluded v. presented figures.

[15:41] Curiosities in the passage: the unnamed figures, the allegory of the hard pavement, the connection between Sennacherib and Satan, and the odd notion of Holofernes' "relics."

[21:24] Our final discussion on the virtue of humility: its possible evolutionary necessity for a communal animal.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore another short passage on the reliefs in the road bed of the terrace of pride.

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 37 - 48. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please visit my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:39] The figures in the road bed in this passage: Niobe, Saul, Arachne, and Reheboam.

[10:06] The craft of this passage: Ovid's Metamorphosis v. the Bible; poetry and art v. politics and revolt.

[13:00] One curiosity in the passage: suicides.

[15:43] The second of three discussions on the difficulty of making humility a virtue.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the first four figures carved into road bed. Who are they? How is the passage crafted? And what can they tell us about the dualism of pride and humility?

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Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:02] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 25 - 36. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:47] Who are these figures? Lucifer, Briareus, Apollo, Athena, Mars, Jupiter, and Nimrod.

[10:14] What are the rhetorical, thematic, and formal poetic structures used to describe this first set of four exemplars.

[14:45] One curiosity in the passage: Statius's THEBIAD may lie behind much of it.

[15:55] Another curiosity: One set of figures are NOT exemplars of pride.

[16:59] A final curiosity: Apollo's occluded presence in the passage.

[19:33] The first of three discussions on the difficulty of making humility a virtue.

All well and good, until we remember this isn’t God’s art, as Dante wants us to believe. It’s Dante’s. And audacious.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the second half of the opening twenty-four lines of PURGATORIO, Canto XII.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:29] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 13 - 24. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[02:37] Virgil's call back to realism (or mimesis).

[04:30] Tombs and their signs (or symbolic language).

[09:56] Artifice as "realer" than real.

[21:00] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 13 - 24.

Until Virgil tells him to be like the damned Ulysses. And then he straightens up and heads out.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the curious opening lines to PURGATORIO, Canto XII. Dante seems to want to have it both ways at once. But all cakes spoil, no matter how careful you are.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:02] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XII, lines 1 - 12. If you'd like to read along or leave a comment and continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[02:24] Did Dante really create a problem with the redemption of Provenzan Salvani in PURGATORIO, Canto XI?

[05:19] Has Dante really morphed into the oxen pulling the cart with the ark, rather than being Uzzah who touches and steadies the ark?

[09:55] How is Virgil Dante's tutor?

[11:30] Why does Virgil prompt Dante to be Ulysses?

[13:05] How exactly is Dante "emptied out"?

[16:18] Does the passage include a mistake about Virgil?

We’ve come to the end of PURGATORIO, Canto XI . . . and the end of the artist Oderisi’s monologue. He finishes up, not with more about himself, but with the tale of the third penitent we see on the first terrace after the gate: Provenzan Salvani, a bad boy from Siena who plotted Florence's demise and who also perhaps foreshadows our poet's exile.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore some of the gorgeous poetry in this passage and try to come to terms with how Dante is constructing this very new bit of theology: Purgatory.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 109 - 139. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to this episode on my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:30] Echoes in the opening lines of this passage: from the Bible, from INFERNO.

[08:59] Back to the Battle of Montaperti in 1260 CE.

[11:04] The kinds of pride on this first terrace of Purgatory.

[12:58] A gorgeous passage in the Florentine.

[15:36] Provenzan Salvani, a Ghibelline tyrant from Siena who plotted Florence's demise.

[18:09] "Contrapasso" or "debt"?

[20:24] The logistics of Dante's Purgatory.

[23:37] A murky repentance.

[26:52] Another prophecy of Dante's exile.

[28:50] The gloss life gives to art.

[31:09] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 109 - 139.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work our way through more questions about the first half of Oderisi's speech in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:57] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 73 - 108. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation (yes, please!), go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:46] Oderisi and Franco are indeed mentioned by others but mostly centuries after Dante. And for what it's worth, is Dante even writing a history-based poem?

[06:48] Oderisi calls Dante the pilgrim "brother"--as in monastic brotherhood or as in the talk of artistic guilds?

[08:32] Dante puts the prophetic denunciation in the mouth of a character, rather than in the poet's interpolation.

[12:38] Dante meets a miniaturist, an illuminator . . . and the new style of poetry was mostly practiced in small poems like sonnets and canzone.

[17:34] In my interpretation, Dante the poet remains unnamed in the tercet about the Guidos. Should we see a psychological or artistic development here?

[22:13] Dante meets an illuminator, the sort who our poet might hope would someday work on COMEDY.

On Purgatory's terrace of pride, we turn from noble Omberto to an artist, a manuscript illuminator, Oderisi da Gubbio, who delivers some of the most memorable lines in all of PURGATORIO.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we work through the first half of Oderisi's speech, all about the vagaries of artistic fame, the passing of Cimabue in favor of Giotto, and the coming of a poet who can kick two well-known Guido's out of the Italian nest.

Here are the segments of this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:49] My English translation of this passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 73 - 108. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation about this passage, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[05:18] Dante the pilgrim and the illuminator Oderisi appear to know each other--which may well be a first comment on the vagaries of artistic fame.

[06:48] Who were Oderisi da Gubbio and the Bolognese Franco?

[11:55] Laughter may be near the root of Dante's art.

[14:25] And desire may lie near the root of Dante's understanding of human behavior.

[18:29] Oderisi mixes his metaphors--he is no poet!

[20:21] Giotto surpasses Cimabue in the development of craft and its tie to fame.

[23:35] And someone (Dante?) may well pass the two Guidos in literature . . . although he may be more humbled than first appears to be the case.

[27:28] The prideful in PURGATORIO's first terrace reference the heretics in INFERNO.

[29:44] The end of the passage makes Brunetto Latini's grand, heroic speech into a lie.

[34:52] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 73 - 108.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we hear Omberto's side of the story, try to discern his character through his words, and ponder why Dante makes the first penitent of Purgatory proper so very boring.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:27] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 46 - 72. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website: markscarbrough.com.

[03:55] More decentering in the passage: Is Dante trying to decenter (or humble) the reader?

[09:35] Is Omberto Aldobrandesco humbled?

[14:12] Or is he still prideful?

[15:54] Or is he both?

[17:49] Who was Omberto Aldobrandesco?

[22:55] Omberto articulates the basic understanding of purgation in PURGATORIO.

[25:53] But why does Dante make the first penitent beyond Purgatory's gate so, well, boring?

[29:16] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 46 - 72.

Dante the pilgrim has heard the prayer of the prideful penitents under their boulders and now he sees them more clearly, weighed down "as if during dreams." What?

It gets more confusing. Dante the poet interrupts the narrative to remind his readers of their duties (to his imagined penitents? what?). And then Virgil speaks without ever being given a dialogue clue, further disorienting COMEDY's readers.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore this strange passage from PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:05] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 25 - 45. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:55] Three curiosities in the passage from the medieval Florentine, plus one thematic tie back to Canto X.

[10:41] For whom are the prideful penitents praying? And what exactly are they praying for them?

[16:18] The poet's lesson, inserted into the ongoing story, is disconcertingly awkward.

[21:36] Virgil offers nine lines of dialogue without a cue to us know it's Virgil who's speaking until almost the end--more disorientation.

[27:19] The passage ultimately connects to a medieval notion of art by its reference to the weight of dreams.

[29:35] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 25 - 45.

Dante now hears the first of the penitents of Purgatory proper. They're under their boulders, reciting the foundational of Christianity.

Except they're not. They're reciting Dante's rewrite of that prayer.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, for this curious passage that opens PURGATORIO, Canto XI, in which our poet has the sheer bravado to rewrite the most important prayer in the Christian tradition.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:55] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto XI, lines 1 - 24. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:06] Initial comments about the prayer from the prideful penitents on the first terrace of Purgatory proper.

[09:25] The original statement of the prayer from Matthew 6: 9 - 13 versus Dante's rewrite of it.

[12:55] Dante's additions to this foundational prayer.

[21:39] The controversies Dante writes into this foundational prayer.

[32:29] Two interpretive questions. One, why does Dante feel free to rewrite a ritualized prayer, part of the liturgy itself?

[35:45] Two, what is Dante's ultimate poetic theory? That sacred space creates metaphoric/poetic space which then creates actual/physical reality.

Virgil has prompted the pilgrim Dante to look at the penitents coming around the bend on the first terrace of Purgatory proper. But Dante can't make them out . . . until the poet intervenes with an invective and the envisions these penitents as works of art.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we explore the hall of mirrors that Dante's theory of art is becoming even on the first terrace of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:31] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 112 - 139. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:00] The prophetic denunciation in the center of the passage hopes for a collective redemption out of individual sin.

[10:08] Dante's and Virgil's eyesights are first compromised so that they can't comprehend what they see.

[12:30] Art's power to interpret the realities of what is seen leads to Dante's hall of mirrors in which art is interpreting the real while being based on the real.

[18:01] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 112 - 139.

Having seen the intaglios, Dante is still in wonder as the first penitents round the bend. Virgil spots them first . . . and murmurs to Dante.

Murmurs? It’s a loaded verb in a passage about Dante’s theory of art.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we take on this short passage in PURGATORIO, Canto X, a passage that seams the canto together . . . or perhaps reveals its stitching.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[02:07] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 94 - 111. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:18] This passage is a seam in the narrative, an important break in its structure.

[06:50] In Dante's theory of art, only God can create something out of nothing.

[08:21] Only in retrospect do we know what the intaglios were about. Or do we?

[10:00] Dante is writing ekphrastic poetry (poetry about a piece of visual art) about art that doesn't exist except in his own imaginative landscape.

[12:28] Several possible answers to the complicated question of Virgil's murmuring in this scene.

[18:08] Dante's third address to the reader in PURGATORIO may exhibit a hesitation or even an insecurity in the narrative.

[23:12] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 94 - 111.

Dante goes on to find the last intaglio or relief carving in the austere, too-steep, marble wall of the first terrace of Purgatory. Here, he finds a scene between the Roman emperor Trajan and a sorrowing mother who demands justice.

Demands it so much, in fact, that she and Trajan have a dramatized conversation, although they're carved into marble. Eagles soar. Knights tramp the ground. What's Dante up to?

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we watch Dante the poet push the claims of realism to the breaking point to end at the moral crux of all of PURGATORIO: How do you balance justice and compassion?

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:14] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 70 - 93. If you'd like to read along or continue the conversation with me, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:07] The first major players in the passage: the Roman emperor Trajan and the widow at his horse's bridle.

[05:19] The third major player in the passage: Pope Gregory the Great.

[07:21] Trajan is named outright, although other reliefs use periphrastic phrasing to identify the characters in the marble. Is that difference important?

[10:30] The passage picks up and alters the vendetta thematics from INFERNO.

[13:01] The woman at Trajan's horse's bridle seems a middle ground between the submissive Virgin Mary and the haughty Michal: an actionable humility.

[15:56] An interpretive question about the difference between history and story (or "istoria" and "storiata," to use Dante's words).

[18:53] Mimetic (realistic) art relies on imagined details to bolster and enhance the realism claims.

[23:45] The moral crux of Purgatory is the balance between justice and compassion.

[25:36] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 70 - 93.

The scene is so realistic that it causes a sensory confusion in our pilgrim. Problem is, his amazement at the realism in the art is based on the poet's fabrication of details in the scene. The imagined enhances the real? A complex game indeed!

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look with the pilgrim at the second carving on the terrace of the prideful in PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:13] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 46 - 69. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[04:00] Comparing the first image in the marble with this second one: spare vs. elaborate.

[04:54] Dante, on the side of Virgil's heart, eventually passes his guide. Is this symbolic? Allegorical? Or ironic?

[09:51] The relief in the marble is a story lifted from II Samuel 6: 1 - 23.

[12:19] The last six lines of the passage seem to show a dichotomy between low comedy and high tragedy.

[14:26] Complex ironies in the passage: Dante makes up details that are the basis of its hyper-realism.

[17:23] More complex ironies in the passage: Dante the poet may appear in disguise twice in the pilgrim's story.

[21:01] The call for greater realism leads to, yes, Renaissance art but also to modern abstraction.

[23:48] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 46 - 69.

Dante the pilgrim and (shockingly!) Virgil have made it to the first terrace of Purgatory proper, although they (and we?) are still not sure exactly what's going on. All we know is that the terrace has gorgeous carvings in the white marble.

Join me, Mark Scarbrough, as we look at the first of these carvings that will help us understand the penance ahead--and more importantly, help us understand Dante's theory of art, developed over the central cantos of PURGATORIO.

Here are the segments for this episode of WALKING WITH DANTE:

[01:18] My English translation of the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 28 - 45. If you'd like to read along or drop a comment to continue the conversation, please go to my website, markscarbrough.com.

[03:18] Who was Polykleitos? What does Dante know of him? And how does this artist relate to "nature," the "child" of God.

[06:13] The first image in the marble is revealed through periphrasis, despite its inherent realism.

[11:24] "Ave" is an inversion of "Eva"--or Eve, from the garden of Eden. The fall in Genesis and the consequence of death lie at the bottom of this passage.

[14:42] Dante appears to favor very realistic art.

[15:50] The art here is rather spare--or at least sparely described.

[17:03] Dante appears to favor didactic (or moral) art.

[17:46] Dante's theory of art is that creativity builds off what's come before.

[22:30] To put "historical" matter in an imaginative space is to compromise the historicity of the matter.

[25:57] The unknowable is embellished by art, a most human gesture.

[28:38] Rereading the passage: PURGATORIO, Canto X, lines 28 - 45.