They dig into how AI tools are actually being used day to day, why "human in the loop" means more than just a review step, and what cognitive science tells us about the real danger of students offloading hard thinking to technology. The conversation also covers the evolving role of teachers, the economic ripple effects of AI, and why the charter school mindset of curiosity and rigor matters more than ever.

In this episode:

1. How Bellwether's team is personally using AI tools like Claude Skills and Gemini Canvas
2. What cognitive offloading means and why it threatens real learning
3. The "ambidextrous adoption" approach to AI in schools
4. Where pockets of innovation are emerging — and the equity concerns that come with them
5. Dream Charter School's AI readiness curriculum
6. The bimodal classroom: AI-encouraged assignments alongside blue books and pen-and-paper
7. Why teacher support and family engagement are critical gaps right now
8. The White House AI Policy Framework and state-level responses
9. Will AI cause a white-collar job apocalypse — or fuel entrepreneurship?
10. What charter schools should be doing right now

Show Notes & Resources:

1. Bellwether AI work
2. The Leading Indicator: AI in Education newsletter (Marisa Mission & Alex Spurrier)
3. Productive Struggle (Bellwether)
4. Built for Learning case studies (Bellwether)
5. Robin Lake / CRPE on AI in Education
6. Dan Meyer on AI and math
7. AFT & Moms for Liberty on screens
8. Blue Rose Research – AI public opinion
9. White House AI Policy Framework
10. DOL AI Literacy Framework
11. Julia Freeland Fisher
12. Chad Alderman
13. Marguerite Roza / Edunomics Lab

Guests: Mary Wells (Co-Founder, Bellwether) and Marisa Mission (Bellwether)

Hosts: Jed Wallace (CharterFolk) and Andy Rotherham (Co-Founder & Senior Partner, Bellwether)

Watch the full video on YouTube.

WonkyFolk is produced by CharterFolk.

In this episode of WonkyFolk, Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham sit down with longtime education leader and reform advocate Lisa Keegan for a candid, wide-ranging conversation about educational opportunity in America.

Drawing on decades of leadership experience—from state-level policymaking to national advocacy—Keegan reflects on where the education reform movement has made real progress, where it has stumbled, and what must come next.

The conversation explores:

1. The evolving politics of school choice and accountability
2. Whether reformers have lost clarity about purpose
3. What data tell us about public sentiment on educational opportunity
4. Why durable change requires both courage and coalition-building

This episode also highlights findings from the latest national survey on educational opportunity—offering a grounded look at what families actually want from schools today.

If you care about governance, public trust, and the long game of education reform, this is a must-listen.

📎 Show Notes & Resources

1. 50CAN Educational Opportunity Survey (2nd Edition)
2. https://50can.org/wp-content/uploads/2026/02/50CAN_EducationalOpportunitySurvey_2ndEdition.pdf

Parker shares insights from recent studies on Denver’s portfolio strategy and its impact on student outcomes, and reflects on the shifting narratives, local politics, and policy lessons emerging from over two decades of reform.

📌 Topics include:

• What Denver got right—and what it’s still grappling with
• How closures, autonomy, and accountability played out in practice
• What the data actually say about academic gains and equity
• Why local nuance matters more than national hype

🎓 Whether you’re a reform skeptic or a die-hard believer, this conversation offers grounded, data-informed reflections on one of the most watched experiments in urban education.

👇 Show Notes and Resources:

• Center for Education Policy Analysis at the University of Colorado Denver School of Public Affairs
• Education Systems Leadership and Policy Institute

Key Research Studies:

• Student-Level Study – 2024 - Study SummaryS | Technical Reporth | ​Slide Deck​o | Bennet-Boasberg Essay
• Systemwide and Intervention-Specific Effects of Denver Public Schools’ Portfolio District Strategy on Individual Student Achievement – Anna Nicotera, Erik Fuller, Jakob Panzer, Todd Ely, and Paul Teske
• District-Level Study – 2022. Study Summary | Technical Report
• The System-Level Effects of Denver’s Portfolio Strategy on Student Academic Outcomes – Anna Nicotera, David Stuit, Margot Plotz, Todd Ely, and Paul Teske

Related Articles and Essays:

• “Dismantling Denver” – Education Next, Spring 2022, by Alan Gottlieb
• “Redesigning Denver’s Schools: The Rise and Fall Of Superintendent Tom Boasberg” – Education Next, Spring 2019, by Todd Ely and Paul Teske
• “Mastering Change: When Charter Schools and School Districts Embrace Strategic Partnership” – 2012, by Elizabeth Cooley Nelson, in CRPE
• “Denver Education Research Going Forward but Not Without a Fight”– Erica Meltzer, Chalkbeat, July 13, 2023
• “Closing Struggling Schools Helped Student Achievement in Denver, Study Finds” – Erica Meltzer, Chalkbeat, September 27, 2024
• “Denver Public Schools’ Controversial Reform Strategy Led to Significant Learning Gains for Students” – Jenny Brundin, Colorado Public Radio, September 24, 2024
• “The Inconvenient Success of New Orleans Schools” – Ravi Gupta, The74Million, August 25, 2025
• “How Denver’s School Reforms Raised Grad Rate, Got Kids Years of Extra Learning” – The74Million, February 23, 2025
• “Education Scarcity: A Picture Worth a Thousand Words – The Five Points of a North Star” – Jed Wallace, CharterFolk, September 14, 2025

How many mulligans does a country get before there are real consequences? In this year-end conversation, Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham confront 2025's uncomfortable truths: neither party heard the message voters sent, ed reformers have gone soft on accountability, and we're spending another year arguing while kids fall further behind. They explore Virginia's accountability experiment, the problem with universal school choice that doesn't prioritize low-income students, and what made Rod Paige different—a leader with a "core of steel" anchored by clear beliefs. Plus: why Brandon Brown and Howard Fuller are calling for more courage in the charter movement, and whether public education can offer anything to compete with disruption.

**Episode Highlights:**

• Why 2025 was another year of missed opportunities

• The retreat from meaningful accountability—and why reformers are complicit

• Virginia's test: Will Spanberger build on Youngkin's reforms or tear them down?

• Universal school choice without income targeting: A problem?

• Revealed preferences: Leaders who oppose accountability but ensure their own kids get it

• Remembering Rod Paige and the power of vision and beliefs

• The courage question: Brandon Brown, Howard Fuller, and finding your moxie

**Show Notes:**

• CharterFolk Brandon Brown interview
• Hess and Rotherham on cell phones and student engagement
• Andy on cell phone bans as surrender
• Andy on what's next for education in Virginia
• Tennessee religious charter schools case

From working in the Office of Management and Budget under the Great Society programs to chairing the California State Board of Education under two governors, Kirst shares an insider’s view of how education policy gets made—and remade. He walks us through his incredible journey from Harvard to Washington to Stanford, including his role in designing Title I, navigating political upheaval, and helping reinvent California’s education finance system.

You’ll hear:

• How Mike stumbled into K–12 education policymaking—and never left
• Behind-the-scenes stories from the federal and state levels
• Reflections on the evolution of school finance reform
• Thoughts on what California’s education system got right—and still needs to fix

This is a masterclass in education policy, history, and political resilience from someone who’s truly seen it all.

Show Notes:

• Andy on the ESA division question: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/will-the-trump-administration-go
• Overview of California's "Local Control Funding Formula" (LCFF) enacted in 2013-14: https://www.cde.ca.gov/fg/aa/lc/lcffoverview.asp
• 
  

In this episode, Macke pulls back the curtain on how rigorous education research actually works, from the methodological challenges of measuring school effectiveness to the evolution of accountability systems across states. She discusses CREDO's groundbreaking longitudinal studies, the complexities of comparing charter and traditional public schools, and why context matters more than headlines suggest.

The conversation explores the intersection of research and policy-making, touching on California's "gnarly" accountability system with its 50+ indicators, the role of charter management organizations in scaling successful models, and the ongoing debates about how we measure educational success. Macke also shares insights from Stanford's "tectonics" project and reflects on how education research has evolved over her distinguished career.

This is essential listening for education policy professionals, researchers, advocates, and anyone who wants to understand the data behind the debates. Macke's expertise and the hosts' thoughtful questions create a substantive discussion that goes far beyond talking points to examine the real challenges and opportunities in American education.

Topics Covered:

•CREDO's methodology and longitudinal research approach

•Charter school performance measurement and accountability

•The evolution of education policy research

•State accountability systems and their effectiveness

•The role of research in shaping education policy

•Challenges in scaling successful educational models

Resources and Links:

CREDO and Macke Raymond's Work:

•CREDO Charter Schools Reports: https://credo.stanford.edu/research-reports/charter-studies/

•Macke's "Fun House Mirror" Hoover Summit Introduction: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeklNPBF9RE

•Previous WonkyFolk CREDO Episode with Macke: https://www.charterfolk.org/wonkyfolk-vol-5-special-credo-episode-with-macke-raymond/

Hoover Institution Resources:

•Hoover Institution K-12 Education Work: https://www.hoover.org/focus-areas/reforming-k-12-education

•Education Futures Council Report: https://www.hoover.org/press/education-futures-council-unveils-report-ours-solve-once-and-for-all

• Andy’s PMC fundraiser mentioned in the episode: https://profile.pmc.org/Andrew-Rotherham

Additional Reading:

•Tom Dee's Ed Week Article on Research and Practice: https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-high-quality-research-rarely-informs-classroom-practice-why/2025/09

•Diane Ravitch's New Autobiography: https://amzn.to/3JfpRne

•Andy's "Craft versus Politics" Article: https://www.the74million.org/article/rotherham-phonics-whole-language-balanced-literacy-the-problem-isnt-that-we-dont-know-how-to-teach-reading-its-politics/

•"Buck Up!" on Eduwonk: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/buck-up

About Our Guest: Margaret "Macke" Raymond is Director of the Center for Research on Education Outcomes (CREDO) at Stanford University and Distinguished Research Fellow at the Hoover Institution. Her research has shaped education policy debates for over two decades.

Key Discussion Points:

•How rigorous education research methodology works in practice

•The challenges of measuring school effectiveness across different contexts

•California's complex accountability system with 50+ indicators

•The role of charter management organizations in scaling success

•Why context matters more than headlines in education policy

•The intersection of academic research and policy implementation

•Stanford's "tectonics" project and innovation in education research

Join Jed Wallace and Andy Rotherham as they dive deep with Shaka Mitchell from the American Federation for Children into what could be the most significant school choice development in years. This isn't your typical education policy discussion – it's about a "seismic" shift that could reshape how families access educational options nationwide.

🎙️ What You'll Discover:

• The federal tax credit program that's flying under the radar

• What this means for families nationwide

• Why this policy could be a game-changer for low-income families

• What are SGOs, and how they will play a key role

• How it can look different in different states

🔥 Why This Matters:

While everyone's focused on the usual education debates, a quiet revolution in school choice funding might be happening right under our noses. Don't miss this insider perspective on what could be the next big thing in education policy.

📺 Perfect for: Education leaders, policy wonks, parents exploring school options, and anyone curious about the future of American education.

📚 Show Notes & Resources

• Georgetown's Edunomics Lab Analysis

• AFC Federal Tax Credits Overview

In their signature style—honest, informed, and unafraid of disagreement—Andy and Jed also share reflections from the conference floor and dig into the hard questions facing the charter movement today. It’s a conversation rich with insight, nuance, and vision for what comes next.

🎙️ In This Episode:

• Steven Wilson breaks down the themes of The Lost Decade

• Reflections on leadership, accountability, and innovation in schools

• Why reform feels stuck—and what might move it forward

• Conference takeaways and real-time reactions from the field

• A few lively disagreements between Jed and Andy (naturally!)

This is an essential listen for anyone working in or thinking about public education today.

Watch it on YouTube here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxLaJmygER8

They also explore big-picture trends reshaping education, from the erosion of academic rigor in K-12 to the political dynamics behind school funding, college value, and the explosion of school choice across the country.

Plus, a deep dive into Steven Wilson’s new book on merit, equity, and excellence in education—and why it may signal a turning point for liberal education reformers.

👉 Topics include:

• Why the SCOTUS tie wasn’t just procedural—it was a signal
• The evolving politics of school choice and teacher pay in red states
• Are we underestimating the college-for-all backlash?
• Virtual schooling and its quiet but growing policy momentum
• Why merit still matters—and what Democrats risk by abandoning it

📝 Show notes include:

• Steven Wilson’s book
• Chad Aldeman on jobs
• Eduwonk (Andy's blog) post on books
• 4-4 Drummond decision
• Mark Walsh and Andy on SCOTUS cases
• The National Alliance’s standout amicus brief
• Jed and Starlee's conversation
• Texas virtual bill

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and leave a review—every little bit helps us keep it wonky.

Prompted by Marlon Marshall’s recent insight on the need to “make progress amid the disruption,” the boys take on some of the biggest questions facing schools and policymakers right now. Will the St. Isidore Supreme Court case redefine what it means to be a public school? Could religious charter schools become a new frontier—or a new fault line—in education policy? What happens when AI enters the classroom faster than we’re ready for? And will federal funding keep pace with an increasingly decentralized education landscape?

As always, Jed and Andy mix sharp analysis with insider perspective, offering a candid and occasionally irreverent take on where things stand and where they could be headed. Whether you’re a charter school leader, policy wonk, or just trying to make sense of the headlines, this episode delivers insights, laughs, and a few eyebrow-raising predictions.

Takeaways:

• In this episode, we discuss the implications of the Supreme Court case regarding AI's role in education advocacy and school funding.
• We reflect on the challenges faced by school districts amid budget constraints and the increasing complexity of educational policies.
• The conversation emphasizes the need for education advocates to navigate the evolving landscape of technology and its impact on learning outcomes.
• We explore the potential consequences of the SCOTUS ruling on charter schools and the broader educational landscape across the United States.
• As we analyze the current state of education funding, we highlight the critical importance of maintaining equitable resources for all students.
• Finally, we express cautious optimism about the role of artificial intelligence as a transformative tool in education, while acknowledging the challenges ahead.

Notes:

Article from The Dispatch on SCOTUS decision on charter schools: https://thedispatch.com/article/supreme-court-religious-charter-schools/

EduWonk on SCOTUS: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/wednesdays-department-of-education

US News on the changing role of States in education: https://www.usnews.com/opinion/knowledge-bank/2015/12/10/new-education-law-is-bad-news-for-accountability

Jed and Andy also explore the potential consequences of the Supreme Court's decisions on charter schools and the broader implications for educational equity and access. Ultimately, they assert the importance of fostering resilient educational systems that can adapt effectively to the demands of an ever-changing world. They wrap things up by wondering what kind of swag they should give listeners. What's your vote?

Takeaways:

• The conversation between Andy Rotherham and Jed Wallace delves into the complexities surrounding higher education and charter schools.
• Both speakers express concern over the current state of higher education, emphasizing the need for a reevaluation of its economic model.
• Rotherham highlights the troubling dependency of higher education institutions on federal funding and its implications for autonomy.
• Wallace shares a poignant story about former students overcoming challenges, illustrating the transformative power of education in the face of adversity.

Notes:

• Dana Goldstein at NYT on college for all:
• BPC Commission on the American Workforce
• Emily Yoffe at the Atlantic about Race and Sexual Assault Cases on College Campuses
• Education at Economic Mobility - Ron Haskins at Brookings.
• Eduwonk on the Trump EO event
• Klein's interview with David Shor at the NYT about post-election polling.
• Abundance book by Klein and Thompson
• Why Nothing Works book by Dunkelman
• Shapiro on Bill Maher
• Gavin Newsom Takes Criticism About His New Podcast
• CharterFolk post - Graph of Century.
• Margaret Spellings Comment on Department of Education 
• Oklahoma Governor's comments on audit of Tulsa schools
• Eduwonk post - Religious charter schools
• College is worth it - especially if you are low-income (Time article)

With federal oversight in flux, the conversation explores whether charter schools could be left without a seat at the table, the potential impact of religious charter schools, and the broader political realignment in education policy. The episode wraps up with a live audience Q&A, bringing in diverse perspectives on school choice, funding inequities, and the future of education reform.

Key Takeaways:

✔ The chaotic pace of policy changes under the new administration and how it differs from 2017

✔ The potential risks of block grants for charter schools, particularly in blue states

✔ The legal and political implications of religious charter schools and upcoming Supreme Court rulings

✔ Why charter school advocates must define their values and strategy amid shifting political winds

✔ The growing divide between red and blue states on public education policy

Notes & References

Eduwonk on IES cuts and the cultural moment we're in

Eduwonk on the recent "Dear Colleague" letter

SCOTUS Blog on the Oklahoma religious charter school case

Takeaways:

• The podcast features a profound dialogue with Karim Ani, who shares his insights on the evolution of math education and its impact on society.
• Karim Ani reflects on his personal journey through math education and the importance of using mathematics to foster rational discourse in democratic contexts.
• Listeners are encouraged to ponder the disconnect between traditional math education and its real-world applications, emphasizing the need for a transformative approach.
• The discussion highlights the necessity of supporting teachers with effective resources, thus enhancing the learning experience for students in mathematics.
• Karim Ani advocates for a shift from abstract math problems to real-world scenarios that engage students in meaningful ways through mathematics.
• The podcast concludes with a vision for a collaborative classroom environment, where students work together on community-driven projects to apply their mathematical knowledge.

Mentions in this episode:

• Karim's book, "Dear Citizen Math"
• Citizen Math
• Wheat and Chessboard problem
• Karim on Instagram

• Elections perspective six weeks later
• Linda McMahon reactions, including a somewhat surprising lack of acrimony across the political spectrum on her nomination.
• The biggest story in public education this year - Democrats embrace stasis, while Republicans embrace ESAs and vouchers. Are Dems approaching a "gray divorce" on their education priorities, while Republicans head into a "honeymoon period" on ESAs and vouchers?
• The biggest story regarding charter schools - Are charter schools in a "sweet spot" or in a "dead zone" headed into 2025?
• And our biggest reasons for optimism and concern headed into 2025.

References:

* Tim Daly's piece: https://www.educationdaly.us/p/we-are-in-the-midst-of-an-educational

* Election reax: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/shellacked-what-are-the-education

* Fiscal situation: https://www.pgpf.org/article/7-charts-that-show-how-the-nations-fiscal-outlook-worsened-in-2024/

* Andy and Lindsay Fryer discuss Linda McMahon: https://www.linkedin.com/events/7265157124941369344/comments/

* Musical chairs: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/charter-schools-might-not-have-a

Show Notes:

PPI report 

https://www.progressivepolicy.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/PPI_Searching-for-the-Tipping-Point-paper.pdf

Parker Baxter Denver study 

https://publicaffairs.ucdenver.edu/docs/librariesprovider36/default-document-library/denver_systemwide_and_intervention-effects-technical-report-september-2024.pdf?sfvrsn=f4236bb4_1

Michael Bennet and Tom Boasberg on Denver 

https://publicaffairs.ucdenver.edu/docs/librariesprovider36/default-document-library/leading-for-equity-and-student-growth-lessons-transformation-the-denver-public-schools-sept-2024.pdf?sfvrsn=237174b4_1

Eduwonk on election

https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/come-talk-ed-politics-plus-heres

Chalkbeat on CO consolidation 

https://www.chalkbeat.org/colorado/2024/10/16/denver-families-for-public-schools-move-past-education-reform/

74 on school choice referendum 

https://www.the74million.org/article/school-choice-questions-dominate-november-ballot-propositions/

Show Notes:

Tim Daly on Finland

https://www.educationdaly.us/p/the-rise-and-fall-of-finland-mania

OG Eduwonk on Finland

https://www.eduwonk.com/2004/04/finland-rising.html

Eduwonk on DiAngelis

https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/the-bloom-is-off-the-seth-rose-what

74 on DiAngelis backstory

https://www.the74million.org/article/corey-deangelis-disgraced-not-by-liberals-he-trolled-but-right-wing-parents/

Denver Study

https://publicaffairs.ucdenver.edu/docs/librariesprovider36/default-document-library/denver-study-summary-september-2024.pdf?sfvrsn=60236bb4_1

Denver Public Radio story

https://www.cpr.org/2024/09/23/denver-public-schools-controversial-reform-successful/

Denver Post story

https://www.denverpost.com/2024/09/23/denver-school-reform-academic-performance-study/

Matt Landner on ESA finance

https://www.reimaginedonline.org/2023/07/arizona-governor-touts-misleading-narrative-on-arizona-empowerment-scholarship-program/

Bellwether school finance work

https://bellwether.org/publications/splitting-the-bill/

Rotherham in New York Times on when teachers unions fought their own teachers over innovation:

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/10/opinion/10rotherham.html

Jed Wallace on Don Shalvey

https://www.charterfolk.org/remembering-don-shalvey-a-mid-summers-nights-dream-of-loving-what-we-do-and-who-we-do-it-with/

Eduwonk on Don Shalvey

https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/don-shalvey

Don Shalvey on doing what you love (Part 1)

https://www.charterfolk.org/charterfolk-contributor-don-shalvey-education-equals-opportunity/

Don Shalvey on doing what you love (Part 2)

https://www.charterfolk.org/charterfolk-contributor-don-shalvey-do-what-you-love-part-2/

SHOW NOTES:

• Andy's Eduwonk post on Biden being a centrist
• Andy's Eduwonk post on Tim Walz
• Tim Daly's piece about grading the Biden Administration on education policy
• The cringy "Mommala moment" from the Drew Barrymore interview with Kamala Harris
• The full interview between Barrymore and Harris
• Derrell Bradford and Tim DeRoche's Op-Ed in the 74 about Milliken vs Bradley

*Key Topics Discussed:*

- The diversity in state laws regarding age-related permissions.

- Surprising statistics on child labor and marriage.

- The influence of federalism on policy consistency.

- The impact of these inconsistencies on today’s youth.

- The role of schools and education policy in navigating these challenges.

*Episode Highlights:*

- [01:45] Introduction of guest Lynne Graziano and the Edge of Seventeen report.

- [05:30] Discussion on the age of consent and marriage laws.

- [15:00] The role of federal legislation in creating consistency.

- [25:20] How adolescent laws impact education policies.

- [35:45] Viewer Q&A and final thoughts.

*Why Listen?*

This episode is a must-listen for educators, policymakers, parents, and anyone interested in the intersection of youth, law, and education. You’ll gain fresh insights into the often-overlooked area of adolescent policy and its real-world implications.

*Show Notes:*

- Edge of Seventeen Report by Bellwether Education Partners:

https://bellwether.org/publications/t...

- Aspen on cross-partisanship:

 • Crossing the Partisan Divide in Educa...  

https://www.aspeninstitute.org/public...

- Reagan Institute conference:

https://www.reaganfoundation.org/reag...

- SD state superintendent race:

https://www.inforum.com/news/north-da...

- NC state superintendent race:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/14/politi...

- Eduwonk musical chairs post:

https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/charte...

- Eduwonk musical chairs post:

https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/charter-schools-might-not-have-a

- Brandon Brown agrees with Andy:

https://x.com/BBrownIndy/status/1789041617715794327

- Travis Pillow agrees with Jed:

https://x.com/travispillow/status/1789414349141856388

Thanks for listening! See you in the next episode of WonkyFolk!

SHOW NOTES:

• ASU-GSV "Brave New World" keynote from Michael Moe
• Vinod Khosla interview from ASU-GSV
• “Buck Up!” article from Eduwonk 
• Economist on YouGov Poll
• The live WonkyFolk episode where we both praise Starlee: Video | Audio
• Eduwonk’s Public Relationists V. Achievement Realists 
• Article about Proposal to change a school in Gainesville, Florida to selective admissions
• CharterFolk post about charter school history not being "a bucket of ashes."

WonkyFolk's first live episode discusses the vital role of charter schools and civic engagement in advocating for education reform, particularly within African American and Hispanic communities. Jed and Andy delve into policy-making dynamics, the influence of political affiliations on educational initiatives, and how charter schools can serve as catalysts for community mobilization towards improved educational outcomes. Highlighting the importance of a cohesive advocacy strategy, the podcast also explores the implications of school choice mechanisms like vouchers and Education Savings Accounts (ESAs), advocating for significant policy adjustments to ensure access to high-quality education for all, fulfilling diverse community requirements.

00:00 Welcome to the Wonky Folk Podcast Live Episode!

00:53 Kicking Off with a Live Audience: The Excitement and Challenges

01:48 Charter Schools Advocacy and the Impact of COVID-19

02:57 Navigating the Political Landscape of Charter Schools

07:54 The Importance of Narrative and Controversy in Advocacy

17:07 Exploring School Choice and the Political Divide

26:39 The Future of School Choice in a Polarized Political Climate

32:48 The Struggle for School Choice and Accountability

33:57 The Need for Strong Advocacy and Communication in Education

35:47 Challenges and Successes in Charter School Advocacy

38:30 The Importance of a Unified Advocacy Strategy

43:57 Navigating Political and Policy Challenges in Education Reform

50:13 Building a Stronger Narrative and Policy Agenda for Charter Schools

56:28 Engaging Communities and Shaping the Future of Charter Schools

01:07:57 Closing Remarks and the Path Forward

You can also watch it on YouTube.

Show Notes:

• https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/theyre-furious-in-oklahoma-plus-baesler
• https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/01/17/fact-sheet-biden-harris-administration-announces-improving-student-achievement-agenda-in-2024/
• Bellwether School Finance: https://bellwether.org/tag/school-finance/
• Bellwether Admission: https://bellwether.org/beta/admission/
• Higher Ed Hypocrisy: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/odds-ends-and-fish-higher-ed-pisa

This week, Andy and I are talking with Nina Rees, President and CEO of the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools, regarding charter schools and the American Dream.

For those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube. 

This week some of the topics include:

• Introductions (00:01)
• One of the greatest accomplishments for the National Alliance for Public Charter Schools (NAPCS) over the last decade (06:11)
• How we should we think about charters relative to other choice options and what we need by way of leadership and advocacy (11:30)
• Nina’s thoughts regarding the most pressing charter issues 11+ years ago v. today (15:21)
• Nina’s biggest surprise (18:27)
• A backstage pass to leading and organization like the NAPCS and some of Nina’s enduring memories (24:33)
• The political leaders who support charter schools during a period of intense polarization, what we can do to support continued bipartisanship, and the importance of future elections (28:47)
• How to keep a charter base together, especially during vexing issues facing charter schools (34:10)
• The area Nina would encourage CharterFolk to work on for charter school success (44:11)
• Nina’s billboard for charter schools, “A ticket to the American Dream” (47:22)

Notes:

You can use the following links to access:

·      The National Alliance for Public Charter Schools’ report, Believing in Public Education: A Demographic and State-level Analysis of Public Charter School and District Public School Enrollment Trends. https://publiccharters.org/newsroom/publications/2023-public-school-enrollment-trends-report/

·      WonkyFolk Vol 5 – Special CREDO Episode with Macke Raymond. https://www.charterfolk.org/captivate-podcast/vol-5-special-credo-episode-with-macke-raymond/

·      CREDO’s report, As a Matter of Fact: National Charter School Study III, which is the third installment of a multi-decade study examining the academic progress of students enrolled in charter schools compared with those enrolled in traditional public schools. https://ncss3.stanford.edu/

·      Jed Wallace’s article, “The Charter-School Movement Just Keeps On Keepin’ On: Its momentum catalyzed by shifting politics, new strength, better advocacy, and simple staying power”. https://www.educationnext.org/the-charter-school-movement-just-keeps-on-keepin-on/

 This week, Andy and I are talking with David Griffith, Associate Director of Research at the Thomas B. Fordham Institute, regarding The Education Competition Index: Quantifying competitive pressure in America’s 125 largest school districts, which indicates the death of traditional public schools has been greatly exaggerated.

 For those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well. 

This week some of the topics include:

• Introductions (00:01)
• A brief description of the study, its findings, and their significance (04:07)
• The effects of competition generally (06:54)
• Evolution of the role of competition as advocacy battles intensify and polarization increases (14:54)
• Other creative ideas to increase competition (16:10)
• Interesting findings on variation in competition by demographics of students (24:46)
• Thoughts regarding the ability of new ESAs and voucher programs to increase competition (31:01)
• Upcoming Fordham studies (39:42)

 Notes:

 You can use the following links to access:

 ·      The Education Competition Index: Quantifying competitive pressure in America’s 125 largest school districts

https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/research/education-competition-index-quantifying-competitive-pressure-americas-125-largest

As ever, I’m eager to hear feedback and suggestions from CharterFolk. So, if you have a chance to listen to the discussion and want to drop me a line with some thoughts, feel free to reach me at jed@charterfolk.org.

If you haven’t yet heard or seen previous volumes of WonkyFolk, you can access them here.

Meanwhile, I thank you once again for being part of the CharterFolk community and for the efforts you are making to improve educational opportunities in our country.

This week, Andy and I are focused on a Thanksgiving theme. We are talking about what we are thankful for over the last year, personally and professionally, as well as traditions and new results.

For those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well. 

This week some of the topics include:

• Welcome back and tales from the trail (00:04)
• Thanksgiving plans, traditions, and WKRP in Cincinnati’s 1978 Thanksgiving classic episode, “Turkeys Away” (05:58)
• One positive thing we are each inarguably happy about that happened in charters and/or ed reform over the last year (08:01)
• CMO leadership transition: promote from within or hire externally (17:15)
• Virginia election results (30:30)
• Public school satisfaction polling results: parent, non-parent, and pundit opinions (38:39)

Notes:

You can use the following links to access:

·      WKRP in Cincinnati’s 1978 Thanksgiving episode, “Turkeys Away”: https://www.pjstar.com/story/entertainment/television/2023/11/20/wkrp-turkey-drop-cincinnati-thanksgiving-episode-turkeys-away-les-nessman-streaming/71652621007/

·      Andy Rotherham’s Eduwonk article regarding Virginia’s recent elections, “Vibes And Narratives Are No Way To Go Through Ed Policy Son…Plus Fish!”: https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/vibes-and-narratives-are-no-way-to

·      Matt Barnum’s Chalkbeat article, “The public is souring on American education, but parents still give own child’s school high marks”: https://www.chalkbeat.org/2023/9/5/23859890/parents-polling-surveys-schools-american-education-pandemic/

Previous volumes of WonkyFolk can be accessed here.

Greetings, CharterFolk!

This is the second WonkyFolk where Andy is talking while Jed is walking the Camino Trail with his wife, Amy. Andy and Cara Fitzpatrick, an editor at Chalkbeat and a Pulitzer Prize winner for Local Reporting in 2016 for a series about school segregation, talk school choice history and school choice today.

Their conversation focuses on Cara’s book, The Death of Public School: How Conservatives Won the War Over Education in America, particularly the complicated history of school choice in America, and the fact that very different people with very different backgrounds are pursuing school choice for very different reasons. A theme running through the discussion is the long history of political and constitutional strategies to expand school choice, especially the legal strategies focused on the Free Exercise and Establishment Clauses.

For those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well. 

 This week some of the topics include:

• Introductions and Cara’s background and K-12 school experience (00:00:20)
• The provocative title of the book and an overview of the very complicated history of American school choice (00:04:33)
• Who wins between these different visions of choice: Is it good for everyone or is it good for low income children? (00:10:50)
• What does it mean for Democrats and school choice and why are Republicans better at messaging than Democrats? (00:15:06)
• Organized political warfare v. grassroots in school choice (00:16:55)
• How the Democratic answer to school choice was initially charters versus vouchers and how it only recently changed with Betsy DeVos (00:23:00)
• Jeb Bush’s quote regarding school choice, ‘…start small and expand’ and the idea that school choice is a regular feature of American education (00:26:41)
• Political and constitutional strategies to expand school choice, with an emphasis on legal strategies and the journey of separation of church and state in education, including precedents and the most recent Supreme Court decision in Carson v. Makin (2022) (00:30:57)
• Precedents v. presentism and court shifts on the Free Exercise Clause over the years (00:38:11)
• The role of housing in school choice and the various tools segregationist use in education that are still a problem in our school systems across the country (00:44:09)
• Why were individuals like Milton Friedman and Virgil Bloom comfortable with school choice options (vouchers) while recognizing they would have ill effects on public schools? And is this the death of public schools? (00:48:37)

Notes:

You can use the following link to access

Cara Fitzpatrick’s book, The Death of Public School: How Conservatives Won the War Over Education in America. 

Andrew Rotherham’s article in U.S. News & World Report, “The Complex History of School Choice: There’s no single reason people want more choice in education“.

Their conversation focuses on public opinion on education, particularly parent opinion, and the similarities and differences of post-pandemic K-12 experiences for students, parents, and families. A theme running through the discussion is how to build and use an accurate data model to overcome the overt political efforts to drive a wedge between parents and the public education system, shed light on the issues, and to create a healthy culture of free expression to work through complicated issues (e.g., transgender, sports, gay rights, and controversial topics and diversity in the curriculum).  

For those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well.  

References & Notes:

• The UAS Education Project data, documentation, and publications focused on “Understanding Coronavirus in America” by USC Dornsife Center for Economic and Social Research (CSER)’s Center for Applied Research in Education (CARE)’s Understanding America Study (UAS) Education Project: https://uasdata.usc.edu/index.php

• Morgan Polikoff’s book, Beyond Standards: The Fragmentation of Governance and the Promise of Curriculum Reform: https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Standards-Fragmentation-Governance-Curriculum/dp/1682536114/ref=sr_1_1?crid=TWUZ7FDJ0BKS&keywords=beyond+standards&qid=1697491913&sprefix=beyond+standards%2Caps%2C124&sr=8-1

• A Controversial Topics Report from USC Dornsife CSER and USC Rossier School of Education: https://www.ednc.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/House_Divided.pdf

• Bellwether’s Common Ground: How Public K-12 Schools Are Navigating Pandemic Disruptions and Political Trends: https://bellwether.org/publications/common-ground/

• Politico’s “Virginia Went to War Over History. And Students Actually Came Out on Top.”: https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/09/09/glenn-youngkin-history-wars-virginia-00113958

And for those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well. 

This week some of the topics we discuss include the following:

• Introductions and the state of public education (00.03.00)
• Parent power, the work of The Oakland REACH, and shifting the narrative of the recent Oakland teachers' strike to focus on the harm done to students (00.06.25)
• Parent power, the work of the Campaign for Our Shared Future, and the 4 aspects of its national campaign (00.23.06)  
• The theory of action, power dynamics, and defining the wins, especially as they relate to urban education (00.29.24) 
• The influence of politics on curriculum, advocacy, and community-driven solutions (00.36.32)
• The Oakland REACHS’ Liberator Model (00.42.16)
• The real threats to public education, a definitional problem, confusion, and distractions (00.47.50)
• Book bans and the sensationalism of social and national media (00.53.40)
• Responding to divisive issues and staying grounded with a focus on a home base of teaching and learning (01.07.13)

You can use the following links to access 

• An Ipsos poll for ParentsTogether, “Most parents want classrooms to be places of learning, not political battlegrounds”: https://www.ipsos.com/en-us/news-polls/most-parents-want-classrooms-be-places-learning-not-political-battlegrounds
• The Oakland REACH’s Liberator Model: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1BQ0vHa9Nr-Tej6Pb0KhEijwwjXT9c-rv/view
• Reclaiming Math through our Liberator Model: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15pvOsW0b4yVv1eucw5P0WCDkoftdLCVt/view?ts=64ee73bb&pli=1
• Andrew Rotherham’s article, “A Definitional Problem: Please try to be a little more precise.” https://eduwonk.substack.com/p/a-definitional-problem

And for those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well. 

This week some of the topics we discuss include the following:

• The gentrification of college athletics (00.25)
• Traveling, family and summer fun before becoming empty nesters (01.30)
• Two amazing mystery guests, who specialize in educational politics, advocacy, parent organizing and empowerment, and will join us during our next WonkyFolk podcast (09.23)
• Setting the stage for states, like VA, putting the interest of the Commonwealth and the kids of the Commonwealth before political expediency in adopting new K-12 history and social studies standards (14.17)
• The education factor in Virginia elections (16.00)
• School choice and the lack of robust parent groups in Virginia (20.23)
• The political calculus to be made by rural Republicans in various states (22.20)
• The juxtaposition of the two parties on school choice and reproductive choice (24.10)
• Education, culture wars, and universal vouchers (28.00)
• The existential crisis for public school supporters (30.22)
• The juxtapositions of two articles focused on Mom’s for Liberty (36.03)

Notes:

You can use the following link to access 

• Michael B. Horn’s interview of Steve Mesler and Andy Rotherham, Rethinking Sports Education in Schools: https://michaelbhorn.substack.com/p/rethinking-sports-education-in-schools
• Rick Hess’ interview of Andy Rotherham, How One State Found Common Ground to Produce New History Standards: https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/opinion-how-one-state-found-common-ground-to-produce-new-history-standards/2023/07
• Robert Pondiscio’s article, Who’s Afraid of Moms for Liberty? https://www.thefp.com/p/whos-afraid-of-moms-for-liberty
• Kate Briquelet’s article, DeSantis, Furries and Trump Merch: I Went to the Moms for Liberty Summit: https://www.thedailybeast.com/inside-the-moms-for-liberty-summit-in-philly-we-saw-ron-desantis-furry-panic-and-lots-of-trump-merch

This week some of the topics we discuss include the following:

• The implications for charter schools of the Supreme Court decision not to hear the case (00:01:16)

• The potential for religious freedom advocates and lawyers to continue looking at the charter school space as an opportunity to advance things (00:06:06)

• Implications of other cases before the Supreme Court, e.g., affirmative action, student and teacher freedom of expression (00:18:28)

• The science of reading and phonics (00:26:51)

• Giving props to Emily Hamford, the journalist, who deserves credit for shedding light on this topic, getting traction, and changing policy (00:38:31)

• Moms for Liberty, their Sword of Liberty Award, and their impact on board of education decision making (00:40:00)

Notes:

• Charter Day School, Inc. et. al. Petitioners v. Bonnie Peltier, as Guardian of A.P., a Minor Child, et. al. rom the Supreme Court docket: https://www.supremecourt.gov/search.aspx?filename=/docket/docketfiles/html/public/22-238.html

• You can use the following link to access Eva Moskowitz’s Wall Street Journal opinion article, “Phonics Finally Gets Its Due in New York”: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-finally-gets-hooked-on-a-phonics-based-curriculum-school-system-education-students-teacher-public-f019bc45?mod=hp_opin_pos_6

Here is a link to our conversation where you can listen to the podcast. And for those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube as well.

This week some of the topics we discuss include the following:

• The heart of the matter, the meta message, the most important takeaway from the study: How are charters excelling? (00:02:13)
• The study methodology: How you can actually compare students’ performance in different schools? (00:05:13)
• Maintaining balance: Macke’s thoughts about how to frame the progress charter schools have made while also acknowledging areas needing improvement. (00:11:16)
• Macke’s thoughts regarding performance expectations, student learning, society in general, and CREDO’s future. (00:16:25)
• Focusing on other themes in the study: The performance of Native American students and students in the suburbs, as well as how virtual charter schools are performing. (00:18:51)
• Interest levels in the three studies from the media and policy makers and what this may portend for future policy making. (00:26:31)
• Macke’s “aha” and the people who get credit. (00:35:00)

Notes:

• “As a Matter of Fact: The National Charter School Study III,” is the latest CREDO study.
• The Methods and Data Overview describes how CREDO approached the study.

This week some of the topics we discuss include the following:

• Can’t say yes to equity and excellence (00:01:10)
• Can’t say yes to providing parents with timely access to results or resources and tools to support their kids in mitigating pandemic learning losses (00:08:42)
• Can’t say yes to improving the way we teach history and civics (00:18:59)
• Can’t say yes to academic freedom and the full exchange of ideas (00:28:28)
• Can’t say yes to what is best for kids as a core value of collective bargaining (00:35:28)

Notes:

• Economist article about math reforms in San Francisco that have generated neither excellence or equity.
• Emerging Democratic Majority book by John B. Judis
• Recent NYT article about Ruy Teixeira and his views on the modern positioning of the Democratic Party on key issues
• The Meritocracy Trap by Daniel Markovitz
• NYT Op-ed by Tom Kane and Sean Reardon about parents not knowing how far behind their kids are.
• EdSource commentary by Steve Rees and David Osborne about the weakness of California’s new school dashboard
• The 74 article about dropping NAEP Civics results
• The Righteous Mind, Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion by Jonathan Haidt, 
• Tweet from Tom Loveless about the politicizing of NAEP releases
• Atlantic article by Conor Friedersdorf about recently passed Florida laws likely being deemed unconstitutional 
• Hemmingway quote (not Buffett) about going bankrupt gradually, then suddenly.

----------

This week some of the topics we discuss include the following:

The 40th Anniversary of report, “A Nation at Risk: The Imperative for Educational Reform” (00:01:59)

Why the American economy has been able to persist despite the problems in education (00:04:59)

The equity shift to ensure the hyper-talented kids in the lowest quintile get the opportunity to go to college (00:10:05)

Why we think the Economist ‘s coverage of education lately has been really good (00:11:43)

A recognition of Marshall (Mike) Smith’s impact and role in A Nation at Risk (00:12:07)

The historical amnesia during last week’s Congressional committee hearing framed in terms of good guys versus bad guys (00:13:12)

Randi Weingarten’s modus operandi or MO and lack of responsibility (00:15:19)

The impacts of the pandemic in 2020-2023 (00:17:20)

Politics in Urban Settings and 50-50% Red State Politics (00.22.13)

New York realities and ironies (00:23:23)

The Post Janus Poker Game (00:25:29)

Virginia’s new content standards (00:28:17)

The need to help students learn how to grapple with a spectrum of ideas (00:30:55)

The materials, tools, and training teachers need for this content (00:35:33)

The value adds of the Core Knowledge Approach (00:36:57)

The link to the show notes referenced today. At the end of this description.

As ever, I’m eager to hear feedback and suggestions from CharterFolk. So, if you have a chance to listen to the discussion and want to drop me a line with some thoughts, feel free to reach me at jed@charterfolk.org .

If you haven’t yet heard or seen the first and second volumes of WonkyFolk, you can access them here.

Meanwhile, I thank you once again for being part of the CharterFolk community and for the efforts you are making to improve educational opportunity in our country.

Show Notes:

Economist article about the surprising strength of the American economy over the past several decades. https://www.economist.com/briefing/2023/04/13/from-strength-to-strength

The Meritocracy Trap by Daniel Markovits, https://www.amazon.com/The-Meritocracy-Trap-audiobook/dp/B07V5KBLGT/ref=sr_1_1?crid=KCE4CF53LE13&keywords=meritocracy+trap&qid=1683056414&sprefix=meritocracy+trap%2Caps%2C153&sr=8-1

Nation at Risk Story in the Washington Post https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/04/26/how-nationatrisk-report-hurt-public-schools/

Recognition of passing of Marshal (Mike) Smith https://twitter.com/arotherham/status/1653062577872576516

New York Times Article about Randi Weingarten https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/28/magazine/randi-weingarten-teachers-unions.html

C-Span entire Covid 19 hearing featuring testimony of Randi Weingarten https://www.c-span.org/video/?527655-1/teachers-union-president-testifies-covid-19-school-closures

C-Span coverage of Marjorie Taylor Greene stating that Randi Weingarten is not a mother https://www.c-span.org/video/?c5068192/rep-taylor-greene-aft-president-mother

C-Span Coverage of Terrell Bell Confirmation Hearings https://www.c-span.org/video/?88265-1/education-secretary-nomination-confirmation

2020 article showing Weingarten Calling for teacher strikes if schools re-open. https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/strikes-are-an-option-to-force-schools-to-reopen-safely-aft-president-says/2020/07

Story on Weingarten and the AFT exerting influence on the CDC regarding Covid guidance. https://undark.org/2021/06/10/teachers-union-shaped-cdc-school-guidance/

Hochul offers a single word in support of lifting the charter school cap in NYC https://www.cityandstateny.com/politics/2022/10/wait-did-hochul-just-say-she-wants-lift-nyc-charter-school-cap/378967/

Differing views of education reformers regarding Hochul’s compromise to lift the cap by 14 schools in NYC https://www.amny.com/news/hochul-deal-zombie-charter-schools-2023/

Declining numbers of teachers are members of CTA https://www.the74million.org/article/exclusive-california-teachers-union-numbers-show-declining-membership-at-587-of-995-affiliates-since-2019/

Virginia adopts new state content standards https://www.virginiamercury.com/2023/04/20/after-months-of-debate-virginia-board-of-education-adopts-history-standards/

Anne Holton Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Holton

New Yorker profile of Zora Neale Hurston https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-zora-neale-hurston-we-dont-talk-about

Recent study showing benefits of Core Knowledge curriculum https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/long-last-ed-hirsch-jr-gets-his-due-new-research-shows-big-benefits-core

• We introduce ourselves (00:00:00)
• Reactions to the 2023 Chicago mayoral election results (00:02:39)
• Thoughts regarding the 2023 Denver mayoral election, which has two strong charter candidates in a June runoff (00:12:35)
• Gutsy mental health moves (00.20.50)
• The Biden Administration’s nuanced Title IX decisions (00:23:11)
• Implications of Supreme Court cases in Washington, North Carolina, and Oklahoma with an emphasis on broader religious liberty issues (00.30.50)
• Here is a link to the article Andy mentioned regarding last year’s main Supreme Court case as religious institutions come into closer contact with charters and the potential political risks that may be raised with a blurring of church state lines (00.36.15)

For those of you who would prefer a video recording, we provide a link to YouTube .

• Why are we making WonkyFolk
• Reactions to Nashville and trends we often miss at tragic moments like this
• The commonalities and differences facing public education in Los Angeles and Chicago
• Andy’s recommendation of the best read to prepare educators
• The changes that ChatGPT may or may not bring to public education